Topic: Trying to decide between an entry level turntable rig or a nice headphone rig.. (Read 4739 times)

deniall83 · « **on:** July 10, 2014, 12:53:24 PM »

This is not a purchase advice thread but more of a 'what should I do?' thread. I have a small speaker system in my bedroom (Wharfedale speakers, NAD D3020). It sounds great but I find that I don't listen to it all that often. I have sold my NAD D3020 (as of tonight) and was planning on getting a Marantz PM6005 which has both a DAC and phono stage. I have a few hundred records and was also thinking about adding a Rega RP3. Both of those products will cost me $1800 (Australia) plus I would need to add a cart and USB to SPDIF converter as the Marantz doesn't do USB. Then I started thinking that I might be better off building a headphone rig. For that money I could get a Resonessence Labs Concero HD DAC and a ripper of an amp plus I'd have money to spare for an upgrade in headphones (possibly Beyer T90's on massdrop right now).

This is a very difficult decision. I miss playing records but I also don't listen to my speakers all that often so I might be better off with the headphone setup. What would you guys do?

burnspbesq · « **Reply #1 on:** July 10, 2014, 05:06:50 PM »

Doesn't have to be either/or. I should take a photo of my desktop setup for you. Rega P3 w/Sumiko Blackbird, running into Whest Two phonostage, running into the line inputs on a Lynx Hilo, which has Sennheiser HD 800s plugged into it. The Hilo is also connected to my MacBook Pro via USB, so it has access to my approximately 2.8Tb music library. Total cost is about USD 8K exclusive of laptop, but it was done in stages over a four-year period.

The Hilo, working with Pure Vinyl software, produces very good vinyl rips at 192/24 (a lot of the folks here have heard some of them at meets).

If you want to do it step by step, start with gear that holds resale value or has alternative uses. Have you thought about getting a Geek Out or a Herus as an interim step, and spending most of your current budget getting reference-quality headphones?

Marvey · « **Reply #2 on:** July 10, 2014, 05:33:15 PM »

How much vinyl you got? A Rega RP3 really doesn't cut it against a good Redbook or 16/44 setup.

anetode · « **Reply #3 on:** July 10, 2014, 05:40:00 PM »

A Sprout might be right up your valley - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2022604828/sprout-hifi-stereo-amp-that-transforms-the-way-you - that is, if you can wait till October.

If you're thinking about a headphone rig, don't settle for the T90s as there are better headphones out there for that price range (like the HD600). Look around the Head-Fi for sale section for a decent deal.

DaveBSC · « **Reply #4 on:** July 10, 2014, 07:34:05 PM »

Quote from: deniall83 on July 10, 2014, 12:53:24 PM

I have a few hundred records and was also thinking about adding a Rega RP3. Both of those products will cost me $1800 (Australia) plus I would need to add a cart and USB to SPDIF converter as the Marantz doesn't do USB. Then I started thinking that I might be better off building a headphone rig. For that money I could get a Resonessence Labs Concero HD DAC and a ripper of an amp plus I'd have money to spare for an upgrade in headphones (possibly Beyer T90's on massdrop right now).

This is a very difficult decision. I miss playing records but I also don't listen to my speakers all that often so I might be better off with the headphone setup. What would you guys do?

First of all, friends don't let friends buy Beyer T90s. Yech. Second, do you not listen to your speakers because you don't have a TT? I find that when I'm listening at home on my speakers, these days it's pretty much exclusively either live vinyl on my Ace Space deck, or one of my needledrops if I'm feeling lazy.

I have nothing against digital, I just can't stand the way CDs have been produced since about 1993. They're boring, and the better your system, the worse they sound. If you listen to jazz or classical this isn't really an issue, but for pretty much everything else, I can just about guarantee that a humble Rega RP3 with even something as basic as an AT440 MLA cart will sound much better playing a proper dynamic vinyl master than a shitty, smashed to bits, DR5 "competitive" CD master.

Solderdude · « **Reply #5 on:** July 11, 2014, 05:24:28 AM »

Here is a video that might be of interest ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=n-AE9dL5FG8

ultrabike · « **Reply #6 on:** July 11, 2014, 05:48:39 AM »

Thanks! Makes sense. Introduction of phase distortion (linear or non-linear) may change waveform dynamics the way the video shows. This can be introduced by digital filtering or any analog component in the chain.

And yes, dunno about the T90, but it scares me based on my experience with the DT990. Not an expert in vinyl, but the above advice seems pretty solid to me.

DaveBSC · « **Reply #7 on:** July 11, 2014, 06:24:59 AM »

Quote from: Solderdude on July 11, 2014, 05:24:28 AM

Here is a video that might be of interest ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=n-AE9dL5FG8

I'm well aware of the issue with vinyl waveforms created from needledrops and how that can throw off the TT meter. From my own experience, when I don't know if there was a dedicated vinyl master or not, I've found that when the vinyl shows a gain of 4 points or less, it's typically a CD master cut for vinyl, and when it's 5 points or more, its generally, though not always, a dedicated master.

Fortunately you don't need to look at any waveforms to be able to tell. All you have to do is rip the vinyl, level match vs. the CD, and listen. If they sound pretty much the same, they cut from the CD. If the vinyl stomps all over the CD, then they bothered to create a separate, dynamic master.

I've also been given vinyl masters straight from a few mastering engineers in their digital forms, the same ones that they give to the cutting engineers. With those files, the TT meter's results are accurate, and can be directly compared to the CD.

Here's one example of that. The top is the CD release, the bottom is the master that was used for the vinyl pressing.

Marvey · « **Reply #8 on:** July 11, 2014, 07:17:14 AM »

Quote from: deniall83 on July 10, 2014, 12:53:24 PM

This is not a purchase advice thread but more of a 'what should I do?' thread. I have a small speaker system in my bedroom (Wharfedale speakers, NAD D3020). It sounds great but I find that I don't listen to it all that often. I have sold my NAD D3020 (as of tonight) and was planning on getting a Marantz PM6005 which has both a DAC and phono stage. I have a few hundred records and was also thinking about adding a Rega RP3. Both of those products will cost me $1800 (Australia) plus I would need to add a cart and USB to SPDIF converter as the Marantz doesn't do USB. Then I started thinking that I might be better off building a headphone rig. For that money I could get a Resonessence Labs Concero HD DAC and a ripper of an amp plus I'd have money to spare for an upgrade in headphones (possibly Beyer T90's on massdrop right now).

This is a very difficult decision. I miss playing records but I also don't listen to my speakers all that often so I might be better off with the headphone setup. What would you guys do?

Get both (I think USD and AUD are close). Examples:

$500 Pro-Ject RM-1.3 TT (includes Sumiko Pearl which is decent)
$200 Wyrd + Modi DAC (better than Concero IMO)
$350 HD600 or DT880-600 ohm (The Teslas sound worse than the classic Beyer high ohm headphones, the HD600 is a great headphone often forgotten)
$350 Vahalla 2 or Asgard 2 (if you are afraid of tubes).

-or-

$500 Pro-Ject RM-1.3 TT (includes Sumiko Pearl which is decent)
$200 Wyrd + Modi DAC (better than Concero IMO)
$900 HE-560
$250 Asgard 2

-or- if you really want moar treble sizzle and moar bass of the T90

$500 Pro-Ject RM-1.3 TT (includes Sumiko Pearl which is decent)
$200 Wyrd + Modi DAC (better than Concero IMO)
$650 T90
$450 Lyr 2

---

Spending $900 + cart on a Rega RP3 isn't gonna yield better results than the "value" Pro-Ject at this price level. Both TT's are going to be in the same league. The next step would where there would be a notable improvement would have to be something around $2K with at least a $500 cart.
Spending $850 on a Resoosoosoosoonnance "HD" Concero ain't gonna yield better results than Wyrd+Modi. In fact, I prefer the Wyrd+Modi. To make a significant jump in sound quality for DACs, you are looking at $2.5K if not more. You can spend $1200 on a DAC, and even then, it would still be a side grade to the $200 Wyrd+Modi setup.
Getting both options (by avoiding the big names with their big marketing budgets) will allow you a real trial where you can figure out what you really want. Maybe it will turn out you will want both: a good TT rig from headphones.
ADVICE: You are in "no-mans" land with your budget to get anything mind-blowingly great in either direction (TT or headphone rig), so you may as well split your budget and get stuff which is pretty good provided you trust us with what pretty good is. You will find that many of us here at Changstar take an unconventional view of gear. Oftentimes we run against the grain of what is considered good gear at other forums, mainly because at ~~many~~ all other gear review sites or other forums, everything is good.
You may want to try Wyrd with your ODAC. ODAC needs better power.

MY PREDICTION: you will end up with a (Rega RP3) or (T90 + HD Concero).

P.S. If you wait a few months or maybe a year, there is a possibility that some mysterious audio company will come out with a value proposition TT which would be comparable to $2K-$3K TT's at a fraction of the price. I cannot say anything more for now.

Solderdude · « **Reply #9 on:** July 11, 2014, 10:56:19 AM »

If you are a fan of big bass and hot treble the DT990 or T90 is an option.

For a 'reference' sound quality you should SERIOUSLY consider to follow Marv's recommendations.

Author Topic: Trying to decide between an entry level turntable rig or a nice headphone rig.. (Read 4739 times)

deniall83

Trying to decide between an entry level turntable rig or a nice headphone rig..

burnspbesq

Re: Trying to decide between an entry level turntable rig or a nice headphone rig..

Marvey

Re: Trying to decide between an entry level turntable rig or a nice headphone rig..

anetode

Re: Trying to decide between an entry level turntable rig or a nice headphone rig..

DaveBSC

Re: Trying to decide between an entry level turntable rig or a nice headphone rig..

Solderdude

Re: Trying to decide between an entry level turntable rig or a nice headphone rig..

ultrabike

Re: Trying to decide between an entry level turntable rig or a nice headphone rig..

DaveBSC

Re: Trying to decide between an entry level turntable rig or a nice headphone rig..

Marvey

Re: Trying to decide between an entry level turntable rig or a nice headphone rig..

Solderdude

Re: Trying to decide between an entry level turntable rig or a nice headphone rig..

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Author Topic: Trying to decide between an entry level turntable rig or a nice headphone rig.. (Read 4739 times)