I know they're well regarded. I heard a pair of Amperexes that thegunner loaned me...but I can't remember exactly which kind they were. Apparently they have some differences, some being better (or, well, just different) than others. All depends on what sort of sound you want, really. I think they're on the warmer side of things, from what I've heard and read.

They were also orange globes. But I have no idea from what year or anything except that they don't have gold pins. I got them as a package with the valhalla 2 I bought from ebay and they sound good so I'm not complaining.

Nevermind, I guess it was purchased from head-fi. I looked through my PMs and the seller said "1962 Amperex Orange Globes 6DJ8's". So I'm guessing they might be about the same or very similar to the pair that you're getting. How much did you end up paying for your pair btw?

Ok, so not tube related - I have a question about the gain switch preference on the Valhalla 2.  On SS amps, more gain is usually good, as I understand it reduces the amount of feedback used. But I doubt that this logic holds for a tube amp like Val2.  So for high impedance cans, specifically HD650, which gain setting is recommended?  There is higher Zout at higher gain, which leads me to think that the lower gain is better if it still gets loud enough, which it does for me. 

It's impossible to A/B this obviously, because volume is different.

Any ideas on other tubes that might retain the full, powerful, liquid sound but be a bit more polite up at the very top end than the Amperexes? I'm still taking past recommendations into account but am even more curious now how the Amperexes compare given I've been able to get more exposure to them.

Oh, the Amperex tubes with the 650's are a real treat. Here is my take, rolling the 6DJ8 family:

-Philips/Amperex Heerlen are my favourites when I want some warmth. As far as overall refinement goes, I would start with the ECC88's being the least refined, as they have an emphasis that I hear somewhere in the upper midrange. |It tends to do something magical for guitar and overall decay, but at the same time, the overall linear presentation is too skewed for my taste. Treble is also a bit rougher than the E88CC/E188CC's. "Someone" has an old post that alludes to the orange globe ECC88's being his personal favourite, or something like that, so they're rather popular, yet cheap. For me, they're ok...

Going to the E88CC's, things can get much better, as far as linearity and midrange goes. Mids are still emphasized, these are Holland tubes after all. I find the very best E88CC tubes to be the D-getter's, which have one of the widest soundstage presentations to my ears with the 650's. I wouldn't say the bass extends lower, but the treble is definitely a touch more refined and less "rough" than the ECC88's. They still have a fair amount of warmth, and they're "mellow/laid-back" in presentation, but overall nice. As I mentioned, my favourite E88CC's from Philips are some D-getter's stamped as "Miniwatt"s from 1960 I believe. The red Valvo's are supposedly good as well, but I tend to find they mostly all sound the same, as long as they have the Heerlen (delta) stamp.

The E188CC's are what I normally listen to with my 650's, away from my rig at home. The Philips Miniwatt E188CC's are in my opinion one of the best 6DJ8's. Just everything as per above, but very refined, elegant, detailed sounding. A lot of euphonics, and just a nice, linear presentation. The best treble of the Philips/Amperex tubes, IMO. I own a lot of pairs, including the pinched waist tubes which bring a touch more overall resolution, but in the grand scheme of things are expensive. Hearing the 650's with the E188CC Miniwatt is what made me realize what the headphones are capable of; how instruments make music, not just a blob of noise that sounds memorable. Vocal/acoustic tracks are also my favourite with these.


Others worth pursuing for "better" treble? Well, the Siemens & Halske 1960's CCa's are amazingly detailed in their presentation of treble, in the way that the HD-800's illuminate the treble, compared to the 650's. I hear spatial queues, overall depth, and extended bass and treble with the "real deal" CCa's, but surprisingly, the treble sounds a touch rougher than the E88CC and E188CC tubes. It also fatigues my ears if I listen to the CCa tubes for more than say 3 hours. But the CCa's are definitely worth pursuing, in my opinion. A different sound than the E188CC's, in that they have less midrange emphasis/warmth, but they are also surprisingly warmer than any other Siemens tubes I have heard (eg. The ECC88's and E88CC's from Siemens).

Better midrange? Perhaps the Mullard "B" factory tubes. Holy jeez... talk about a liquid, smooth midrange. They really do something unreal with guitar and the 650's. I wouldn't call it a "holographic&quo t; presentation (eg. E188CC, or CCa tubes), but it's just very textured, cohesive, and satisfying. It sounds utterly good. Overall very warm, and perhaps just a bit different sounding than the Philips tubes, but I was surprised at how dialed in the midrange was with these tubes.

Better overall clarity/less warmth, for me, would be the Telefunken's. I own a pair of CCa's and I really, really enjoy them. A very natural sounding resolution... something absolutely magical with jazz. I tend to find them "too quick" for myself with the 650's, and also they may tend to sound bass anemic. Not a problem for myself, as I find the treble is dialed in superbly with the Tele's... I just wish they had more euphonics or something. They sound clear, but the decay is just much too quick, or something. I also prefer my CCa pair to the E188CC Tele's that I have. Both made in Ulm, with the diamond logo. I would strongly recommend them for jazz, it's a breathtaking experience.

I would also say to avoid most of the USA made Amperex tubes, if you find you're particular to rough sounding treble. For myself, they just tend to have a raw sounding treble that comes across as unrefined, and less elegant than their dutch counterparts. The USN CEP white label US Amperex is my favourite... better than the pinched waist US Amperex tubes; my opinion. I found it to have an addicting sound and think it's a keeper as well.

All of my rolling was in my DAC, and with the 650's. My preference is overall resolution, clarity, details, elegant/refined sound. I listen to mostly folk, acoustic, female vocals, some jazz, some rock/country/70/80/90's.