CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

  • December 31, 2015, 11:07:55 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: Better seal with less clamping force: Welcome to the padless phones of the  (Read 2954 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

chetlanin

  • Koss Hackus Supremus
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Powder Monkey
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +224/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77
Re: Better seal with less clamping force: Welcome to the padless phones of the
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2014, 12:10:48 AM »

Thank you aufmerksam, it seems to be an interesting material, will have a closer look.

As a temporary solution I have covered the “clay” with a a layer of kitchen clingfoil, and it works very well and feels nice. True, at the end of a long  piece of music a gradual deformation sets in as body heat softens the pads and they become increasingly flatter until the drivers are touching the ear. But the problem is solved easily in a couple of seconds by re-shaping the pads (with cans in place) with the fingers, and after a short while it feels like a completely normal thing to do. Say, by the worst Mahler or Bruckner symphonies one typically needs to do this only 3 or 4 times during the last movement. Not too bad IMO!
After all many musical instruments also need maintenance and tuning all the time to be in good shape.….
75 % seriously, Olaf
Logged

Armaegis

  • Uphill, both ways
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +76/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 883
  • metallurgist, rocket scientist, swing dancer
Re: Better seal with less clamping force: Welcome to the padless phones of the
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2014, 12:26:46 AM »

I was thinking of the sort of foam used by these... http://www.theinsolestore.com/insoles-store-brands/sole-custom-insoles.html?material=34

Messing around with clay every few minutes does not seem like an ideal solution...
Logged
Do you think there may be an acoustic leak from the jack hole? ~Tyll Hertsens

Not sure if I like stuffing one hole or both holes. Tending toward one hole since both holes seems kinda ghey ~Purrin

Maxvla

  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +211/-12
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1251
Logged

chetlanin

  • Koss Hackus Supremus
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Powder Monkey
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +224/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77

Thanks for the input. (Maxvla, I could need that on my chinrest!)

I decided on molding, the precise 3D method of our forefathers.

Notes to the pictures:

 Several CD's was needed for sufficient stiffness, I glued them together with double sided tape.

(Who said the time of the CD was over?)

The white thing is a cement based stuff intended for small repairs ( sold as "Husfix" in Scandinavia)

The molding stuff is a polyurethane based thing called Sikaflex, sold internationally. Much better than, say silicone, because it can be sandpapered, painted etc after hardening.

(the finished pads feel a tad heavy, maybe on could add some lightweight grains to the Sika flex or smth).
The form can be re-used, needless to say.

To be continude. Follow this thread, pirates! Big question: Will the future end up in ruins or as a smashing success? Yo ho and a bottle off rum (in any case).











Logged

Solderdude

  • Grab the dScope Kowalski!
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +206/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 907
  • No can do skipper, the dScope was terminated
    • DIY-Audio-Heaven

Neat idea but how do you know if you got the ear-driver distance correct and if the foam (and covering ?) you use has the proper absorption properties over the entire FR ?
Logged
Use your ears to enjoy music, not as an analyser.

chetlanin

  • Koss Hackus Supremus
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Powder Monkey
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +224/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77

Thanks for the response Solderdude.

Distance to driver: I don't believe this ever has been a consideration by - practically- anybody (well, which doesn't mean it ideally shouldn't...).
 
(Think yourself in the place of a manufacturer: You will make the pads soft for comfort and make sure that the ear does not touch the driver arrangement.There is not more to it, really. There cannot be, in a way, the enormous weight placed on aesthetics nowadays. You just want the cup as flat and nice as practically possible, otherwise nobody would buy it).*

Inner walls and reflection? Well, if I find some bothersome peak in the treble, I could always try to line the walls with some absorbing material (chamonix faux leather being a favorite) to see if it helped. I could even bore lots of holes in the Sikaflex walls and fill with absobents. But OTOH the inner walls are not much exposed. The pads are made to put the drivers in angled position exactly outside the ear.

Why should there necessarily be a need for "absorption over the whole FR range"?  (Is even such a thing possible outside a large anechoic chamber?) The ESP9's are weak when it comes to bass level, I want max pressure to the (ear) drums.

Reminder: The whole idea with these (hard/firm) pads (for the old Koss ESP9)  is exact individual fit, both to the  head shape and to the ear. cheers, Olaf




*An example: If the manufacturers really cared about such small things (as "distance to ear") they would also apply some elementary rules to their products like avoiding circular shaped pads ( to avoid concentric standing waves). Now take a look around at some of the most expensive cans from the top manufacturers....

Logged

Solderdude

  • Grab the dScope Kowalski!
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +206/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 907
  • No can do skipper, the dScope was terminated
    • DIY-Audio-Heaven

IME the driver-ear distance makes a substantial (and very measurable) difference in sound and is why I mentioned it.
Pads have a certain thickness and compliance to ensure that distance is correct.
Manufacturers use ear/driver distance among other things to tune the sound.
Some need a short distance (and are hated for it by some) others have a substantial distance.
Not to accommodate ears or look nice, though it may have positive effects there as well.

It is often THE biggest reason new pads make such a difference when they are replaced as old ones often are more compressed because the foam disintegrated.

IME experience with measuring and playing with pads HUGE differences can be found (even far over 10dB).
Take the DT770/DT990 pads for instance....
They look exactly the same and even have the same holes in the plastic part but only (appear to) differ in foam type inside (different colour in any case) yet they sound and measure completely different.

Pads can make a difference in sound ranging from subbass to upper treble and all parts in between.
This is why I mentioned the 'whole frequency range', not meaning it should reflect or absorb the whole frequency range.


Logged
Use your ears to enjoy music, not as an analyser.

chetlanin

  • Koss Hackus Supremus
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Powder Monkey
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +224/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77

One must keep apart things (or rather see them together). The big difference measured  by different pads that you mention (up to 10 dB) will only be possible only if something is wrong in the first place: Too much regular shapes and parallel surfaces, resulting in resonances with big Q involved.  If you OTOH make pads of irregular shape, and in addition manage to reduce cavity size, you will have gone to the root of the problem.

I believe that you are over-rating the manufacturers, Solder! Had they done their jobs, there would be no need for clever modificators like Anax and Jerg and yourself.

And I am convinced that the fellow at Senn who openly suggested to reduce the 6kHz peak of the HD800 by increasing the distance by a couple of cm, say, rather would get fired at once.

Wasn't it you BTW who once suggested a nice notch filter for use with the HD800? (correct me if I am wrong). Such a thing should Senn have implemented with their top hp amp of course, if they had a tad more of common sense.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 11:50:55 PM by chetlanin »
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]