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Author Topic: Back to Speakers... Again! (Dirt Cheap Open Baffle Speaker Project)  (Read 17364 times)

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DaveBSC

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Re: Back to Speakers... Again! (Dirt Cheap Open Baffle Speaker Project)
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2014, 04:32:29 PM »


I, too, notice dipole midrange and treble being a little more diffuse imaging than I like, which can be refined with some rear wave damping. I took a different approach and made the midrange-treble portion of my Sequence speakers as a sealed box.

Now THAT is interesting. A NOLA in reverse. I don't think I've ever seen that done by anyone else.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Back to Speakers... Again! (Dirt Cheap Open Baffle Speaker Project)
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2014, 04:39:23 PM »

LOL, I've been moving the speakers up 1" per day from the back wall in hopes my wife won't notice. You are probably right, it's the back wall reflections.

Yep, hence the typical arrangement of loading up the wall behind dipoles with panels and traps - most people with dipoles just try to knock out the rear wave. If you can, try using diffusion there instead. If you get it right in terms of of the delayed reflection, the space will sound MUCH larger than it actually is, without the imaging issues caused by early reflections from the wall behind (and possibly the side walls depending on what you have there.)
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Donald North

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Re: Back to Speakers... Again! (Dirt Cheap Open Baffle Speaker Project)
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2014, 05:07:21 PM »

Now THAT is interesting. A NOLA in reverse. I don't think I've ever seen that done by anyone else.

I'm not the first to do it. I believe that honor goes to Celestion with their System 6000 in the 80s. I built my own dipole woofers in the early 90s to go with their SL700SE and later continued this configuration with the Sequence
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AstralStorm

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Re: Back to Speakers... Again! (Dirt Cheap Open Baffle Speaker Project)
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2014, 07:51:08 PM »

For a diffusor, a bit of rough concrete in a with an U shape is pretty good. Or better yet, chunk of pumice - both absorbs and diffuses.
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Re: Back to Speakers... Again! (Dirt Cheap Open Baffle Speaker Project)
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2014, 12:25:07 AM »

The fireplace and bricks behind actually work well as good diffusor at 1-4kHz.


To be clear, I wouldn't say the imaging is bad, it's just not totally spot on like the BK-16 kit I had before. Minor adjustments tend to help a lot. Toe-in speakers, moving a few inches forward, moving a few inches closer, etc.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Back to Speakers... Again! (Dirt Cheap Open Baffle Speaker Project)
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2014, 12:44:17 AM »

I'm not the first to do it. I believe that honor goes to Celestion with their System 6000 in the 80s. I built my own dipole woofers in the early 90s to go with their SL700SE and later continued this configuration with the Sequence


Very cool. Couldn't you get to the same goal with monitors and dipole subwoofers though? That would open up more options in terms of being able to use dedicated amplifiers and PEQ etc without affecting the main speakers at all, for those of us that like a "less is more" approach.

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Donald North

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Re: Back to Speakers... Again! (Dirt Cheap Open Baffle Speaker Project)
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2014, 04:33:15 AM »

Very cool. Couldn't you get to the same goal with monitors and dipole subwoofers though? That would open up more options in terms of being able to use dedicated amplifiers and PEQ etc without affecting the main speakers at all, for those of us that like a "less is more" approach.

I don't clearly understand your question. Can you elaborate please?

Yes, you can use monitors with dipole subwoofers which is what the Celestion speaker was (SL600 monitors with System 6000 dipole subwoofers & active crossover). Dipole woofers provide their benefit below 200Hz where the room modes dominate, so in my experience it's best to highpass the main speakers/monitors. This can be done as simply as a strategic capacitor in series with the amp powering the monitors. For my personal setup I built the highpass filter into the 2A3 PSE amps powering the 95dB efficient midrange-tweeter array.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Back to Speakers... Again! (Dirt Cheap Open Baffle Speaker Project)
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2014, 04:48:28 AM »

[quote author=Donald North link=topic=1436.msg37892#msg37892

I don't clearly understand your question. Can you elaborate please?

Yes, you can use monitors with dipole subwoofers which is what the Celestion speaker was (SL600 monitors with System 6000 dipole subwoofers & active crossover). Dipole woofers provide their benefit below 200Hz where the room modes dominate, so in my experience it's best to highpass the main speakers/monitors. This can be done as simply as a strategic capacitor in series with the amp powering the monitors. For my personal setup I built the highpass filter into the 2A3 PSE amps powering the 95dB efficient midrange-tweeter array.
[/quote]

What I mean is, run the subwoofers from the pre-outs of the linestage to high-powered SS A/B or even Class D if you want amps with whatever type of EQ you like, and then the main outs to Class A monos powering the monitors. The subwoofers could be placed where ever they are most effective in the room, there's no need for them to be attached to the monitors in any way.

Basically, the same idea as a typical monitor/sub setup, just with dipole subwoofers instead of traditional woofer in a box types.
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Donald North

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Re: Back to Speakers... Again! (Dirt Cheap Open Baffle Speaker Project)
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2014, 05:31:16 AM »

Thanks for the clarification. Yes you can do this as you describe and it will sound good. However in my opinion you'll attain improved sound by highpass filtering the monitors.
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Re: Back to Speakers... Again! (Dirt Cheap Open Baffle Speaker Project)
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2014, 02:12:12 PM »

Your Sequence speakers are at the top of my list of things I want to hear most, Donald. Do you take them to shows?

I'm pretty much set on making the jump to speakers. It's mostly just a question of when now....
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