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Author Topic: Harbeth Speakers  (Read 5123 times)

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Anaxilus

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Re: Harbeth Speakers
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2013, 08:21:38 PM »

To me, they sound better than almost any other box speaker I have heard. They scale so well with high end systems, its shocking. I think what I heard was the monitor 40 and some smaller model. The bigger one was amazing! Put it this way, I enjoyed the Harbeth room more than any Wilson demo I have ever heard.

Bad example. Wilsons seem to be made mostly for tone deaf (and high frequency deaf) audio reviewers. Listen to these, and then tell me if you think a $13K Harbeth is still a good deal.




I have heard this setup along w/ purrin.  Steve's Empirical setup from The Show.  Forget the speaker name.  It's pretty good, not perfect but not bad.  Venture kills it but that's a whole other price point.  I too am not a Wilson fan, nor am I a detractor.  Boring is a word that seems to come to mind.  Laid back, lacking immediacy or dynamics.  Tonally flat.  Others I know are much bigger Wilson fans than I am.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Harbeth Speakers
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2013, 08:27:55 PM »

Dave, I have to ask, where do you find the time to audition all the gear you recommend or poop on? Do you have some extended listening secret source for extremely high end gear?

I usually go to at least one audio show a year, but it's hard to get too clear of an idea of who's doing what because almost nobody pays any attention to getting their hotel rooms to not sound like complete ass. Audio shows are certainly convenient, but the best way to audition is still either through big dealers or the companies themselves if they'll let you visit the factory and check out their reference rooms.

I don't know if Vapor Sound does that, but you can definitely drop by Daedalus and listen to whatever Lou is cooking up. PS Audio has been doing factory tours for quite a long time. I was there years ago when they still had Avalon Eidolons in their reference room, along with Martin Logan subwoofers. Not so good. I know Paul has WAY better stuff in there now, but PS hasn't really released anything that's made me want to go back. I've heard the PWD and I don't much care for their Power Plant stuff, and the amps they've been talking about for years still have yet to actually materialize. The GCC stuff they had back when I was there wasn't impressive.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Harbeth Speakers
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2013, 08:39:21 PM »

I have heard this setup along w/ purrin.  Steve's Empirical setup from The Show.  Forget the speaker name.  It's pretty good, not perfect but not bad.  Venture kills it but that's a whole other price point.  I too am not a Wilson fan, nor am I a detractor.  Boring is a word that seems to come to mind.  Laid back, lacking immediacy or dynamics.  Tonally flat.  Others I know are much bigger Wilson fans than I am.

Vapor Nimbus. They definitely aren't a match for the really big guns like Venture, Rockport, Tidal, or NOLA. I brought them up because IIRC they cost about the same as the big Harbeth. The big Dynaudio Confidence also used to cost that much and has long been a fav of mine, but now they are closer to $25K and not the value that they once were, especially considering there's not much happening below 35Hz.

These though are still somewhere around $12K, and they are absolutely brilliant. These are British speakers done right.

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fishski13

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Re: Harbeth Speakers
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2013, 10:13:43 PM »

dave,
ever read/rapped a knuckle on an ATC loudspeaker?
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DaveBSC

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Re: Harbeth Speakers
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2013, 10:45:45 PM »

dave,
ever read/rapped a knuckle on an ATC loudspeaker?

I'm not very familiar with the high-end ATC models. JA tested the entry level SCM11 a few years ago and found some resonances in the 500-600Hz range, which is perhaps not a huge surprise considering how much cost cutting ATC is likely to have to do to hit the price they charge for the SCM11.



Then there's this, the "awesome" $13K/pr Harbeth Monitor 40.1.



And as a comparison, the cabinet for the $1500 KEF LS50, which you will definitely NOT hear ringing along with the drivers.





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Anaxilus

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Re: Harbeth Speakers
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2013, 11:38:29 PM »

dave,
ever read/rapped a knuckle on an ATC loudspeaker?

I'd love to seem some data on the Voxativ Temptation and Ampeggio too.
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anetode

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Re: Harbeth Speakers
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2013, 11:54:37 PM »

I'm not very familiar with the high-end ATC models. JA tested the entry level SCM11 a few years ago and found some resonances in the 500-600Hz range, which is perhaps not a huge surprise considering how much cost cutting ATC is likely to have to do to hit the price they charge for the SCM11.


I'd hardly trust JA's simple plastic-tape accelerometer readings, you need at least a 3-axis MEMS-based accelerometer to get anything close to an accurate picture of what is going on with the enclosures. Not to mention a seismically isolated anechoic test chamber.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Harbeth Speakers
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2013, 02:33:56 AM »

I'd hardly trust JA's simple plastic-tape accelerometer readings, you need at least a 3-axis MEMS-based accelerometer to get anything close to an accurate picture of what is going on with the enclosures. Not to mention a seismically isolated anechoic test chamber.

LOL. Build one and maybe Purrin can start measuring. The data is what it is. Aside from the cabinet resonance issues, the M40 has serious problems with room interactions, and if your ear is a tiny bit above or a tiny bit below the tweeter, the FR completely falls apart. Other than that, it's great. JA has also commented that he'd rather listen to a competing product, which is not a comment he normally makes in his measurement sections. That's about as damning as he gets.
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donunus

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Re: Harbeth Speakers
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2013, 05:05:16 AM »

Don't the lower frequencies sound good with some low frequency decay? :D Isn't it going to sound too boring if you have a perfect decay there? I don't know... just basing on the cheaper kef x300a, I found the box to be well made but felt that it made you hear the drivers flaws more without that lively boxy coloration LOL. Maybe if the drivers were really badass then I may like a better quality box.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Harbeth Speakers
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2013, 07:47:50 AM »

Don't the lower frequencies sound good with some low frequency decay? :D Isn't it going to sound too boring if you have a perfect decay there? I don't know... just basing on the cheaper kef x300a, I found the box to be well made but felt that it made you hear the drivers flaws more without that lively boxy colouration LOL. Maybe if the drivers were really badass then I may like a better quality box.

No. Depending on where the resonances are, it will cause coloration in different ways in the mid-bass and lower midrange region. All are generally negative. The best you can say about a slightly lively box is that the vibrations are benign enough to not be noticeable. The DeVore flagship on the other hand is actually designed to "sing along" with the music. IMO that's a very dumb way to build a speaker. Speakers are not guitars or violins. I don't want to hear the enclosure.

Boring bass has nothing to do with making your cabinet too inert. I always have a good time listening to Egglestonworks speakers, and their cabinets are very well behaved. They're definitely not as sophisticated as the big Rockports, and the MDF enclosures they use don't have the feeling of being made from solid rock like the Rockport composite shells. There's no obvious box coloration though. It's in the tuning. A Rockport is like a very fine wine, whereas E-Ws are more like a great microbrew.
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