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Author Topic: USB Receiver Chips: Do they really matter?  (Read 3339 times)

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tomscy2000

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USB Receiver Chips: Do they really matter?
« on: December 13, 2013, 08:10:31 AM »

When it comes to USB, I feel there's a lot of confusion with regard to the USB-to-SPDIF stage. Especially in today's world of UAC2, I feel that there's even more confusion because of the drivers needed for Windows, and the fact that most audio companies don't have someone who can write code for asynchronous transfer.

There are people that see 'XMOS' and say, "Cool!" (I used to do that). I know there are people here that dislike XMOS/Thesycon. I have no problem with it. Thus far, I've had fewer issues with it than with the C-Media drivers, even with the absolute generic Thesycon driver.

But there are a lot of USB receiver chips out there, from C-Media in the CM6631/6632A, which seems to provide their asynchronous drivers at a nominal cost as well. At the same time, I spoke with C-Media engineers at this past Computex, and they said that there's not much interest, except from ASUS. ASUS loves C-Media; they use their products almost all their stuff (the negotiation for prices probably works in their favor).

More and more, I get the feeling that the companies use the XMOS and CM663X because they don't want to bother writing code. The code works, unlike Tenor's code; the Tenor TE8802L was utter crap. Tenor engineers for some reason decided to completely disregard USB Audio 2.0 specs when writing their implementation for the driver, and it was buggy as all hell, causing massive crashes. I've heard they've gone to the drawing board and have released newer prototypes that are better now, though.

Of course, the more important part is how the chip jives with the clocks and the I/O connectivity on the board. So, of all these receiver chips, which are the best for a reference board design that can pass the lowest jitter and latency digital signal to the DAC? Do they all work equally well, and this is all a case of easy licensing from Thesycon and C-Media for drivers, or is there actually a hardware component to it?

And what about the other companies? VIA makes a VT1731 chip that only Kingwa seems to care about, and there's a smaller upstart called SaviAudio (subsidiary of SaviTech-IC) that makes a slew of low-cost Bravo SA9023/9027/9226/9227/9228 chips. Let's not forget that Resonessence uses Cypress chips, which are seldom used by the audio establishment, but their Windows code is modified Thesycon.

Of course, there are companies like CEntrance that writes it own code (doesn't Benchmark and PS Audio use CEntrance code?), as well as of course Gordon Rankin, but few others.

What am I missing here? Do I have a fundamental misunderstanding of this topic? I can't tell.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 08:17:20 AM by tomscy2000 »
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Marvey

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Re: USB Receiver Chips: Do they really matter?
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2013, 08:24:04 AM »

It comes down to implementation and extras done to it. Then there comes into question the quality of the rest of the DAC.
  • Schiit's USB Gen 1 used CM6631. Gen1 not so good. The Gen 2 stuff uses CM6631A. The Gen 2 boards look tweaked too with the addition of four sizable can type caps on the bottom of the card and a what looks like a different crystal.
  • The OR2 converter is a modified m2tech hiface with boutique clocks thrown on top of it and boutique regulators and some other tweaks5
  • The PWD2 XMOS implementation seems to be pretty good. Bettering some stand-alone USB/SPDIF converters.
  • The AGD-DI (or USB in the AGD DACs) which uses the VIA chip appears to be below par based, but still effective compared to poor stock USB implementations based on my experience and others I've spoken to.
  • Supplying clean power to USB has already shown to do wonders.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 08:51:16 AM by purrin »
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tomscy2000

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Re: USB Receiver Chips: Do they really matter?
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2013, 11:03:32 AM »

Yeah, ideally, with the same clock generators, the same caps and resistors, and the same quality of board, for reference level performance and building it up to spec, I would assume that any of these USB receiver chips would be interchangeable; it's just that some companies like C-Media throw in the driver for free, others have more I2S features, etc.

Perhaps some platforms are more scalable with respect to quality; I think most chip include an on-board clock generator (that TOTL DACs obviously don't use) but for a low-cost solution, maybe choosing the better on-board generator is the best choice, etc.
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anetode

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Re: USB Receiver Chips: Do they really matter?
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2013, 04:24:20 PM »

Via arguably has the most experience out of the companies you've mentioned, however it only found modest acceptance with mobo makers and little recognition from hifi companies.

Most any modern USB receiver solution should successfully recover clock information with good implementation.
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Original_Ken

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Re: USB Receiver Chips: Do they really matter?
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2013, 06:32:26 PM »

The problem is Apple.

Due to ProTools debuting on Apple, audio professionals use Apple.   So, they know jack about Windows from a technical viewpoint.

Personally, I have done Windows application software development - so I am conversant with it - but none of it has anything to do with USB.

I have talked to two different DAC designers, and can never get a straight answer about any Windows drivers technical issue - it's like talking to Level 1 customer service.   One of them said "you probably know more about it than we do".

And, of course, the other factor is that high-end DACs originated as devices that received SPDIF from CD transports.   So, DAC designers are conversant with SPDIF and USB is new to them.  My guess is that was the reason for Schiit's inclusion of USB Gen 1 as an expensive optional board that was characterized as never going to be as good as SPDIF (contrary to the opinion of Rankin, for example).
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