CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

  • December 31, 2015, 11:09:02 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

Poll: What, if anything, divides headphiles and audiophiles?

It's practical: Headphiles are audiophiles who don't have "room" in their lives for a proper speaker setup. After all, headphone shit now costs just as much as speaker shit.
- 12 (23.1%)
This question is ghey.
- 7 (13.5%)
Headphiles tends to be kids or young ones just getting started with audiophilia. Audiophiles tend to be old-farts who insist on spending huge amounts of money for the privilege of hearing poots from the double-bassoonist in the back of the orchestra.
- 3 (5.8%)
Is Tyll starting shit again?
- 7 (13.5%)
All of the above.
- 23 (44.2%)

Total Members Voted: 50

Voting closed: September 25, 2013, 07:51:23 PM


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5

Author Topic: Poll: What, if anything, divides headphiles and audiophiles?  (Read 6243 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

longbowbbs

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Powder Monkey
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +9/-5
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 78
  • Life is a journey not a guided tour....
Re: Poll: What, if anything, divides headphiles and audiophiles?
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2013, 12:26:45 AM »

X2 what Schiit says....I have the same setup. 2 channel area, Home theater area and HP's. 2 channel would go first if space was at a premium. No headphone can compete with my M&K's and SVS subs for movie night....
Logged
I actually like what I own....

Sforza

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +12/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 225
Re: Poll: What, if anything, divides headphiles and audiophiles?
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2013, 02:06:04 AM »

^ x3 what Schiit says. Most of my "listening for fun" comes from Imagine B bookshelves that I've crammed into my square-shaped bedroom with terrible acoustics. I've placed an acoustic panel behind them and pillow bass traps at the corners to make the sound not horrible. I actually like them more than my headphones, but the headphones get more use due to being in the office for most of the day or telecommuting. I also have a PSB Alpha home theatre setup which hasn't gotten much use lately, but despite the lack of fidelity compared to headphones it's much more enjoyable for watching movies.

I'd be interested to read how the general users on HF respond though. It should be quite different compared to here.
Logged

AstralStorm

  • Speculation and Speculums
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +250/-164
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 559
  • Warning: causes nearby electronics to go haywire
Re: Poll: What, if anything, divides headphiles and audiophiles?
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2013, 04:46:35 AM »

To my ears most new music just sounds like shit. It's blasted to hell with zero dynamic range, and a lot of it is frankly unlistenable on anything, headphones or speakers. Here's the new NIN for example at 320CBR MP3, CD on top, "audiophile master" on the bottom. Yes the "audiophile version" is clipped to absolute hell, because the engineers pushed it louder than the CD.


WRONG! It has higher dynamic range than the original master, so as long as your hardware can handle 0 dB, it should be better.
Hitting 0 dB is not clipping. *Exceeding* 0 dB is clipping and that you can't know. I bet they had a compressor there and a hard limiter too. The original version had a way steeper compressor, as seen in the tops being more squashed.
Note the parts where the top of the signal actually fluctuates in the audiophile one and not the plain version.
Logged
For sale: Hifiman HE-500; Paradox; Brainwavz B2. PM me if you would like to buy them.

DaveBSC

  • Best Korean Sympathizer
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +222/-50
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2092
Re: Poll: What, if anything, divides headphiles and audiophiles?
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2013, 05:07:13 AM »

WRONG! It has higher dynamic range than the original master, so as long as your hardware can handle 0 dB, it should be better.
Hitting 0 dB is not clipping. *Exceeding* 0 dB is clipping and that you can't know. I bet they had a compressor there and a hard limiter too. The original version had a way steeper compressor, as seen in the tops being more squashed.
Note the parts where the top of the signal actually fluctuates in the audiophile one and not the plain version.

WRONG! It does have slightly more dynamic range than the original master, however, the peak levels in the "audiophile" version are *higher* than the standard version. In uncompressed PCM neither version sets off Sound Forge's clipping detector, but after MP3 encoding its a very different story - the sustained higher peaks create a mess of clipping (the detector goes off after 3 continuous samples at 0dBFS). Regardless, both versions sound like shit and the "audiophile" label is a complete joke. The only one worth listening to is the vinyl.

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=1535
Logged

funkmeister

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +15/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 286
Re: Poll: What, if anything, divides headphiles and audiophiles?
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2013, 05:20:11 AM »

Clipping can occur with CD's. I have several that were overdone when burned. The difference is that whatever clipped turns into a 0dB plateau for a while and sounds exactly the same as any non-mechanical clipping you've ever heard.

The way to tell if it's messed up is to zoom in on the waveform and see if there are flat spots. If so, it's ruined.

EDIT: Also know that if clipping occurred somewhere in the chain before the final burning process that you may find flat spots below 0dB. I have a few of those in my collection as well. It royally ticks me off.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 01:10:12 PM by funkmeister »
Logged

AstralStorm

  • Speculation and Speculums
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +250/-164
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 559
  • Warning: causes nearby electronics to go haywire
Re: Poll: What, if anything, divides headphiles and audiophiles?
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2013, 05:25:50 AM »

Yes, peak level looks to have been increased, I bet by normalization after less agressive compression. It actually might've been an audiophile mix if there is no better recording...

Vinyl one is compressed a lot too, just quieter for the most part. Digitize it and see! (DR8 vs DR6. It's that bad.)
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 05:31:33 AM by AstralStorm »
Logged
For sale: Hifiman HE-500; Paradox; Brainwavz B2. PM me if you would like to buy them.

funkmeister

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +15/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 286
Re: Poll: What, if anything, divides headphiles and audiophiles?
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2013, 01:33:30 PM »

I took some production classes in college and all the analog equipment could handle higher voltages than a 100% signal and the high quality tape we were using (type 4) along with the recorders could go several dB passed 100% without any problems. So they always pushed their VUE meters a bit passed peak because everything could handle it and it gave a better SnR.

In digital there is no headroom. So I suspect that old school sound guys may not have adapted to the new ways of doing things and don't realize that red doesn't mean you're in the zone but that it's destroyed. I also suspect that the signal monitoring when burning is often at a point in the chain where clipping isn't discovered. I further suspect that they never go back to check and reburn. It's all unionized so when you hand your stuff over to the guy who burns the master, they make only one run and that's the end of it.

I learned on my own to do everything in digital with peak indicators on and record everything to peak in the range of -3dB or do it again if it's out of spec. If I'm recording live then I make my best conservative guess and try to have a second copy coming in at about -12dB just in case. That way I never have a problem and I just normalize to -0.1dB in the end. I only use Adobe Audition so I don't know if other softwares do what I described as easily as mine does. If they don't, then studios need to make the switch or we're gonna keep dealing with clipped garbage.

Then again, I only produce spoken word and training material so it's much easier for me because I don't build all my different levels in reference to one track, possibly over-blowing one of them along the way. The solution is still the same: monitor your peak meters always.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 01:52:32 PM by funkmeister »
Logged

DaveBSC

  • Best Korean Sympathizer
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +222/-50
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2092
Re: Poll: What, if anything, divides headphiles and audiophiles?
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2013, 02:34:23 PM »

Vinyl one is compressed a lot too, just quieter for the most part. Digitize it and see! (DR8 vs DR6. It's that bad.)

WRONG! If you got DR8 from your vinyl, you're doing something very, very wrong with your needle drop.

http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=45217
Logged

DaveBSC

  • Best Korean Sympathizer
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +222/-50
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2092
Re: Poll: What, if anything, divides headphiles and audiophiles?
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2013, 02:42:44 PM »

In digital there is no headroom. So I suspect that old school sound guys may not have adapted to the new ways of doing things and don't realize that red doesn't mean you're in the zone but that it's destroyed. I also suspect that the signal monitoring when burning is often at a point in the chain where clipping isn't discovered. I further suspect that they never go back to check and reburn. It's all unionized so when you hand your stuff over to the guy who burns the master, they make only one run and that's the end of it.

Except for the fact that up until about 1993, most CD releases were nicely dynamic and generally mastered no higher than about -0.10dB, often much lower. Then everybody decided to be louder than everybody else, and that was the end of that. If you look at dynamics in recordings from 1992 until 1998 or so, you can watch them go down, year by year, one or two dB at a time. By 1998 everybody was at DR6 or below, with many records smashing into 0dBFS in every track. That wasn't because it was old dudes mastering who didn't understand how digital works. It was because executives wanted it, and bands wanted it, and all anyone gave a shit about was how loud they could get it, clipping and sound quality be damned.
Logged

wildstar

  • Powder Monkey
  • *
  • Brownie Points: +1/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13
Re: Poll: What, if anything, divides headphiles and audiophiles?
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2013, 05:50:14 PM »

WRONG! It does have slightly more dynamic range than the original master, however, the peak levels in the "audiophile" version are *higher* than the standard version. In uncompressed PCM neither version sets off Sound Forge's clipping detector, but after MP3 encoding its a very different story - the sustained higher peaks create a mess of clipping (the detector goes off after 3 continuous samples at 0dBFS). Regardless, both versions sound like shit and the "audiophile" label is a complete joke. The only one worth listening to is the vinyl.

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=1535
Reaching 0 dbFS is not clipping. As someone mentioned in that link, the "audiophile" version does not seem to have the plateaus at max amplitude that the standard version has, indeed if what the guy says is true the standard version is more heavily limited, which would mimick clipping.

If you convert to mp3 or another floating point format then you will indeed get clipping when you convert back to integer due to rounding errors, unless the decoder applies some attenuation (not sure if any one does this).
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5