CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Marvey on October 20, 2012, 05:24:49 PM
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Ultrasone Pro900 (Not-Defective) Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plot
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=588.0;attach=2459;image)
OMG BASS. Yup I listened to them first. There so much bass that the rest of the spectrum doesn't matter. These are not defective like the earlier pair. I think the earlier pair was simply just blown in both drivers. (Note that I used a -36db scale on the defective pair. Most FR measurements should be on a 30db scale.)
I've also attached a 300Hz triangle wave.
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Great. So do you find them enjoyable somehow, or it's pure audiophile torture ?
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They very well could be enjoyable if I could hear something else other than just massive low quality bass.
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I like how you called these (functional) or (defective), rather than the (good) pair :)p13
As usual, driver matching is all over the place on this Ultrasone. No wonder the imaging on Ultrasones are so weird.
@extrabigmehdi -- depends what you find enjoyable. These definitely aren't audiophile caliber. These are for people who put 15" subs in their car and EQ the bass all the way up, or people who go to techno nightclubs wearing Versace shirts with the first four buttons-undone.
The tonality is weird, that ringing at 6.5K (and the 12.5dB peak there too) is VERY noticeable.
I have a pair, that i keep around to listen to EDM. The bass is overblown as hell, but oddly satisfying in a sadistic sort of way.
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What is S-Logic, and does it impact any of these measurements?
Also, I imagine a perfect triangle wave is triangular, but what does it represent?
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Well I'm wondering how it compare with IEM that shows a freq response with overblown bass, because obviously the senn IE8, or yamaha eph-100 sounds fine.
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What is S-Logic, and does it impact any of these measurements?
S-Logic impacts measurements similarly to how moving the headphone around the coupler impacts the measurements. I think I ran tests of two different headphones on this site to see the results.
It does make some logical sense as I do wear my headphones forward and low when I am able to, especially the HD800. I feel wearing the headphones low and forward helps to take the edge of the HD800.
Also, I imagine a perfect triangle wave is triangular, but what does it represent?
Yes. A perfect triangle wave should be a triangle. The triangle wave represents odd order harmonics. Just that the influence of the higher order harmonics roll of much much faster (inverse ^2 instead of just the inverse as with a square wave.)
As far as what triangle waves mean, I have no clue.
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Well I'm wondering how it compare with IEM that shows a freq response with overblown bass, because obviously the senn IE8, or yamaha eph-100 sounds fine.
"sounds fine" doesn't necessarily mean accurate. iBuds "sound fine" to millions of people.
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Also important to note NOT to compare measurements on this site with measurements from other sites. Heck, probably not even a good idea to compare IEM measurements to headphone measurements here on this site either.
On the Pro900: I did not assess the treble qualities with my usual test tracks nor did I want to. The headphone did not last more than 5 seconds on my head. This is probably the first headphone and made me dizzy with bass as opposed to treble ringing of death. I now want to vomit and go back to my bed and roll around in my blankets.
Quest's subjective impressions (considering that he owns them) are likely spot on (and consistent with the measurements.)
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Well I'm wondering how it compare with IEM that shows a freq response with overblown bass, because obviously the senn IE8, or yamaha eph-100 sounds fine.
I don't understand this sentence.
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I own the PRO 2900, which is the open version of the PRO 900, and IMO it's one of the worst headphones I've ever spent money on, but to be fair it was originally supposed to be a gift for my ex.
The PRO 900 is even bassier, but both have this awful metallic timbre to my ears. They're also some of the most sibilant headphones I've ever heard. Ever.
It's the sibilance that ultimately makes them unlistenable for me. It hurts like hell.
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I heard an Ultrasone Pro 2900 once and it was honestly the worst thing I've ever heard. I got no enjoyment, no immersion, no emotion out of the music I love.
It was a terrible listening experience. I don't understand what people find appealing in Ultrasones.
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Yeah that metallic treble is a problem with all Ultrasones I've heard/owned to varying degrees. It's like a cyborg approximation of real music. It's not that noticeable if you listen exclusively to EDM, but put real instruments on and things sound off in a hurry.
I wonder what causes that because I don't think I've run across that in another headphone yet it's characteristic of all Ultrasones.
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@extrabigmehdi -- depends what you find enjoyable. These definitely aren't audiophile caliber. These are for people who put 15" subs in their car and EQ the bass all the way up, or people who go to techno nightclubs wearing Versace shirts with the first four buttons-undone.
hehe. headbang
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My subjective impression some what matches the others in this thread as well. Although I do find the bass to be rather pleasant personally because I just like that kind of sound. (I must admit I do EQ up the bass in the car stereo) The treble is really getting fatiguing though, when I first got the PRO900 the treble emphasis did feel somewhat pleasant with my music, but now it just gets annoyingly loud.
The HE400 is looking more and more attractive now.... :wheel:
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This has been and still is the worst headphone I have ever heard, followed by the 1440. Both were walls of different kinds of noise. The treble stabbing and bass are just evil to my ears. The best pro900 I ever heard was the one that was broken/blown.
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I have (very briefly) owned the Ultrasone Proline 2500 and selected it by the original graphs sent to me by Ultrasone on request.
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz296/solderdude/Pro2500frequencyplot.jpg)
It is quite flat and had good hopes it would sound really good as well.
Sounded 'boomy' and the highs were anything but pleasant. :(
Not too much of it, but most of all not 'nice'.
I suspect a lot of effen' ringin'. ???
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz296/solderdude/Pro900frequencyplot.jpg)
This is the plot of the 900 taken by Ultrasone.
:vomit: Nauseating by the looks of it eventhough it was recommended to me by a bass player who said it was one of his favorite headphones.
a VERY CLOSE resemblance to Purrin's plots, so hat's off to his measuring skills.
I wasn't interested in the uber-expensive edition line but FWIR it sounds 'better'.
Never had the pleasure of hearing those.
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Pleasure?
Crazy how similar the graphs are thanks for posting. Though id say that what surprises me is not how close purrins graphs are but how close Ultrasones are. ;)
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The 2500 and 900 indeed aren't that dissimilar on closer inspection.
It's the vertical scales that make them look quite different.
The highs of the 900 should be 'better' in FR quantity than the 2500 even, perhaps with some EQ in the lows...
Ah well, the ringing will still be there..
It was the 'overblown' bass, and highs that killed it for me, sounding grainy and rough.
I held on to it for a while and gave it a few chances but was gone within 2 weeks already.
2500 and 900 mids (between say 200Hz and 5kHz) aren't that bad within 5dB, though the 2500 has less dips.
Pro900@50Hz =+15dB, Pro2500@50Hz =+9dB
Pro900 between 5k and 20k =+ 3dB (average), Pro2500 between 5k and 20k =+6dB (average)
The 'flatness' of the 2500 appears to be an optical illusion. :)p18
I also have plots for: HFI650, HFI700, HFI780, HFI2200 and Pro750 for those that are interested.
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If possible at all, I'd like to see the plots for HFI2200, thanks.
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Ultrasone HFI2200:
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz296/solderdude/HFI2200frequencyplot.jpg)
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Nevermind, it's working now :) Thank you. More or less they look as I expected, though mine are not as "hot" at 7-8KHz as that.
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Seeing those graphs, in some ways, I now have more respect for Ultrasone. I guess their tuning is intentional.
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And their poor driver matching as well :)p17
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Not Senn standards, but decent. Much better than Beyer and probably better than Grado. Although I know that doesn't say much.
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The FR seems to be very similar indeed, lifted lows and 'grainy' emphasized highs.
Mids seem decent on most of their products.
I have no idea how much different the drivers of all these products are (a bit like the Grado range ?)
Maybe they just selected their best measuring headphones (with respect to driver matching) to create the FR plots they have.
They must be doing something right as Ultrasone seems to have a following cult that swear by their products.
But then again lots of followers for beats as well (granted, for a different reason ;))
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I also have plots for: HFI650, HFI700, HFI780, HFI2200 and Pro750 for those that are interested.
Hiya, former lurker here. I'd love to see the HFI700 graph; I'm a former owner and have been searching high and low for some graphical reference.
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(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz296/solderdude/HFI700frequencyplot_zpsdf62a6ff.jpg)
Nice upto 2kHz !
Alas everything above is a bit :-0
Ah... might as well upload them all:
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz296/solderdude/Pro750frequencyplot_zps1b362e01.jpg)
Ultrasone Pro750 (above) not even measuring that bad, no idea how it sounds.
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz296/solderdude/HFI650frequencyplot_zpsb683eb67.jpg)
HFI650 (above)
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz296/solderdude/HFI780frequencyplot_zpse9fdc166.jpg)
HFI780 (above)
mind the vertical scale, it differs from the others just like the Pro900 plot.
If I had to take a wild guess I'd say some of these headphones use the same drivers :)p8
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The HFI700 was a derivative version of the HFI650 - as can be seen, they're almost identical.
Thanks much for posting - solves that one for me!
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Interesting charts. I have owned HFI650 for a short time, enough to equalize it.
The dips (different from my pair) are actually ringing, but not all that long. 12.5k peak was quite annoying without eq, giving sound a really brittle feel. :)p14
That headphone is probably the least ringing of the Ultrasone offerings, but channel matching in the high end was off, giving soundstaing a really weird feel.
Very sensitive to head placement and the optimal one caused them to slip off the head at times.
In case you're interested, I still have the old correction curve. :-0 Not my usual standard of precision, but it should give you an idea exactly how flawed my pair was.
(http://ompldr.org/vZ21tMA/Ultrasone-650.png)
At least they're consistently sucking, I give them that.
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WTF are you serious? All this talk about exactly pinpointing resonances and peaks with nothing but your ear is a bit over the top TBH.
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Ah... might as well upload them all:
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz296/solderdude/Pro750frequencyplot_zps1b362e01.jpg)
Ultrasone Pro750 (above) not even measuring that bad, no idea how it sounds.
I can confirm that these aren't awful; their highs are actually reasonable, as is the bass, but the mids have this polarizng thing about them that eventually made me stop using them in favor of the 840's.
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The Pro750 was my first higher-end headphone since buying the M50 as a gateway to Head-fi. My first was actually the Sony CD3000 years ago. Did lots of mods to the 750 and learned a lot reading about the Kees mods. My biggest issues were the irritating pads that scratched and poked me w/ the worst fabric i could imagine being placed against human skin and the plasticky snares and upper mids. I think they had an overstock.com deal for $175 at the time.
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Just bought me a pair of these for fun that should arrive any day soon. If they are bassy and have a tiny bit of the soundstage that some people say that they have, I will probably be happy. No clue what to think of about the midrage after seeing the CSDs though. Looks, uh...
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The mids aren't as bad as the measurements indicate. There's a lot of stuff bouncing around in the midrange, so you end up with those ripples. The scary part could be the 7k ringing. (always look for ridges in the CSD). The ringing may result in a hard glare or sibilant treble quality. The massive bass may likely drown this out though.
From memory, the staging was pretty good.
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The Pro750 was my first higher-end headphone since buying the M50 as a gateway to Head-fi. My first was actually the Sony CD3000 years ago. Did lots of mods to the 750 and learned a lot reading about the Kees mods. My biggest issues were the irritating pads that scratched and poked me w/ the worst fabric i could imagine being placed against human skin and the plasticky snares and upper mids. I think they had an overstock.com deal for $175 at the time.
Years ago I grabbed a defective Pro750 that I fixed up by snipping the diodes out. As basshead cans go, not bad. Not the cleanest by any means, but very visceral and didn't bloat over the lower mids like other bassy cans. The whole soundstage/mids thing was weird though. Not particularly shouty, but it was kinda boxy feeling, like I was in a small empty room. Made some things feel extra wide, but others hollow. I don't recall anything particularly offensive in the highs.
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cavernous, that's how i would describe it.
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A really small cavern :-\ Something like the Audio Technica A700 feels cavernous to me.
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Yup, all S-Logic headphones sound like a cheap, crummy reverb.
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Well, from memory the HFI series weren't quite as bad as the pro series. But I have less experience with those models and my memory is fuzzy on them now. I had an HFI450 briefly, but wound up shoving an ortho driver in there. Don't even remember which one... might have been an SFI.
I think the Signature Pro/DJ are built off the HFI chassis aren't they?
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Yeah, I took the pads off my pro one time and found that to be the case.
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Just got my Pro 900 and noticed that the bass doesn't really sound as solid as I hoped. Slightly better off my Apex Glacier than off the DACport, but it sounds much better off of my iPod Classic.
I suppose the Pro 900 doesn't really compare even with a stock D2000?
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I suppose the Pro 900 doesn't really compare even with a stock D2000?
I would go as far as saying the only thing they have in common (If you mean the Denon D2000) is that they are both headphones.
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Haha. Yeah, I did mean the Denon D2000. The first thing I remember about my D2000 (if I remember correctly) is that it had rock solid bass, though its piercing treble got to me soon enough. I got D5000 cups for it and it sounds a bit warmer now. Probably my second favourite pair of headphones, but its bass isn't as solid sounding as before - which is fine depending on how tired I am.
edit: Alright, tried out the Pro 900 for a day and I am back to my D2000 with D5000 cups. What was I thinking?
Edit2: however, the Pro 900 really does sound quite good straight out of my iPod Classic.
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The Pro900 was easily the worst headphone I have ever owned. The bass could be enjoyable for some electronic music but the upper mids and highs were so piercing and painful that I got rid of that headphone very quickly. I recall female vocals sounding very sibilant with these. Anneke Van Giersbergen, who normally sounds like an angel, became a banshee with these :)
A shame, really, as the build quality and accessories are actually rather nice.
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I haven't heard the 900 but the proline 750 sucked balls. they should be 50 dollar cans at most IMO.
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Oddly enough, I didn't find the Pro 900's treble piercing. I thought the mids stood out more, but they were quite thin sounding. The bass was not that bad and not as extreme as I expected, but somewhat disconnected from the rest. The mids weren't as bad as I would have felt after looking at the CSDs.
The treble did sound somewhat veiled. Not sure if it's to do with ringing in the treble/cup. <-Might just be lacking a bit of treble sparkle.
I haven't heard the 750, but I have a DJ1 Pro which I think is supposed to be the same as the Pro 550. It had some moments with soundstage, but overall that one was quite painful to me due to the shallow cups as well as the overall sound signature.
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Just tried these out of my new Leckerton UHA760 and they sound a bit better. The Leckerton does bring the midrange out a bit and makes it sound less tinny and confused. More to the Leckerton than the Pro 900 though.