CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Anaxilus. on January 18, 2013, 02:39:08 AM
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(http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp/@0_mall/akiba-inpulse/cabinet/headphoneamp/img58782096.jpg)
Initial impressions:
- Fit is going to be tricky for folks not used to these. Small ears beware
- Tried deep insertion (to the extent possible) and using the tragus/anti-tragus to lock them in place. Works but not the best comfort or sound.
- Requires a dangling type of fit where the tips barely attach the housing to the canal. Done right, they should be light enough to stay fixed w/o falling out.
- Did not like the sound the first day or two. Mids congested and muffled, unresolving, lacking detail across the FR.
- By the third day, either I nailed the fit, the amp broke in, the drivers charged or any combination occurred and they started producing enjoyable melodies.
- Need to drive these from a serious stat amp to see how much this amp is holding them back, I presume a decent amount based on relative detail extraction and performance across various volumes compared to my typical portable rig.
- Not going to try that headband, looks like a scalping device. Why not ear hooks?
- Slight channel imbalance on pot at lowest audible volume.
- Pretty decent bass response, much more than I was expecting from a portable Stax.
- Mids are clear and sharp but not to the clarity of the IE800 or euphony of the ES5. Seem 'accurate' but unromantic. I am not seduced by the vocals.
- Certainly quick and clean signature but not artificially doped like some dynamics that roll off the low end to fake resolution (thin RE-0/272, Shure flagships).
- Treble is largely polite and inoffensive but jury is still out on naturalness. Not sure if cymbal crashes have the proper weight and shimmer yet.
- There is a treble or upper mid peak somewhere that can lead to fatigue over time at louder volumes. Nothing compared to most analytical BA signatures or the EX1000 though.
- Strings sound nice and quick, plucky. Less weighty than BAs.
- I think the signature is cleaner on eco mode but a tad less dynamic in the low end. Maybe there is a slight gain diff, don't think so. We'll see what measurements reveal.
- Flaws in recordings fleshed out by the UERM and HD800 are better reconciled/forgiven on the 002. Not necessarily masked/hidden in the way other phones do.
- SS seems nice and open compared to sealed IEMs but imaging is no the cleanest or sharpest. I wonder if the IR has some of the hash from the 003.
Summary observations:
- So far I have to say the 002 is not the greatest IEM (it is an 'earspeaker' so perhaps unique and incomparable in a sense) I have ever heard but it does a lot right and has a plethora of unique features w/o any real sins of commission. A typical Stax trait I personally observe as the driving force behind most of their appeal. That of being more than a jack of all trades though short of master of all despite what many often suggest. Nothing in the experience immediately pisses you off, assuming you get a proper, comfy fit (big caveat). Uniquely, no other earphone has in combination zero isolation providing complete ambient awareness, is totally open, retains this level of low volume dynamics and clarity, and asserts little to no inner ear canal pressure. This is definitely more comfy on the ear drum then the typical pressurized environment of a custom shell. Though not initially 'wowed' these are slowly winning me over with what they do right. I can't say the same for most of the gear I've sampled over the last year or so. It's been awhile since I've had a new toy that keeps me listening to the music, especially when head-bobbing at 35-40dB! This is the best low volume listening IEM I have heard yet for my tastes (FX700, K3003, briefly IE800 included).
Comparisons w/ the UERM and ES5 to follow....
Some picks of tip rolling. Best I've gotten for my ears so far. As one can see from the top pic, the stock flanges are little more than black silicone washers. This is just to show that alternatives are possible.
(http://i.imgur.com/Pq6IFl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/g7qyhl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5GWsHl.jpg)
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Had my eye on these ever since my HeirAudio 8.A died.
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Measurements would be nice.
Also, what are the dimensions, e.g. nozzle length and diameter? The huge driver bulge looks quite uncomfortable.
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The previous version was even worse in terms of molding. Listening to them I felt... violated :-[
I can send in the old version for measurements, see if there's anything to this newfangled material Stax has switched to.
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Are those tips from the IEM that came with your Nokia N8? :)p8
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The previous version was even worse in terms of molding. Listening to them I felt... violated :-[
I can send in the old version for measurements, see if there's anything to this newfangled material Stax has switched to.
That would be great! We'll run the full suite.
No, those are big honking Meelec single flanges.
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Like I said in the shoutbox, I was having fit problems too. Weirdly the old Stax tips work a lot better for me than the new ones.
The little amp is decent, but man the performance of these is impressive out of a bigger amp. I also tried swapping the cables and using my older SR-003 on the portable, and these newer ones out of a pro bias jack.
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The wait only gets worse when you guys post impressions, ha. Soon, soon...
Anyone play around with "economy" mode and see what change it's making in the sound?
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The wait only gets worse when you guys post impressions, ha. Soon, soon...
Anyone play around with "economy" mode and see what change it's making in the sound?
Yes, from limited intermittent use today, I'd say bass. In full mode the bass becomes more fleshed out. I was listening to some Godsmack and noticed the bass seemed a little softer than when listening earlier. I realized I was in econo mode and flipped the switch and it was fixed. Some adverse to bass might like the sound in econo mode better. At louder volumes, normal mode seemed a bit less refined than econo, I'll have to check distortion between the two modes. Becomes difficult to tell after psychoacoustic adjustment of course..
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Impressions updated. Comparos to follow.
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Thanks Anax.. I've had my eye on these.. those impressions definitely help.
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Just had a quick listen:
- Not impressed
- No deep bass
- No air
- Flabby soft indistinct bass
- Lower mids ELEVATED. Very colored, but it's not a bad coloration necessarily.
- Cheap plastic housing seems to contribute to the coloration.
- Cheap ass headband no better than RD's Coby
I'd go for a BA at a similar price point and possibly use EQ instead.
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Just had a quick listen:
- Not impressed
- No deep bass
- No air
- Flabby soft indistinct bass
- Lower mids ELEVATED. Very colored, but it's not a bad coloration necessarily.
- Cheap plastic housing seems to contribute to the coloration.
- Cheap ass headband no better than RD's Coby
I'd go for a BA at a similar price point and possibly use EQ instead.
Back to the Fitear TG334.
On a separate note. Some dude offered to sell me a universal fit molded UERM. I wonder.....
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True universal or adapted from a custom? UE universals are the most accurate to the full shell custom so you don't loose much if anything.
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I ditched the headband. The 002 sounds better now. I thought there was a strong emphasis around 400-700Hz. Not so much anymore. The headband was probably exerting too much pressure.
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Do you think perhaps the headband was angling the capsules a little bit and breaking the seal?
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It's possible. I noted the headband does a weird angling thing on the drivers. I have a big head, so this could have played large part.
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So, what's the deal with the seal? I'm getting confused... which happens easily.
Sounds like you need a good seal, but not deep penetration? But I'm also hearing that it's a "light" seal?
Perhaps the idea of custom tips may not work?
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It's no surprise the thing is going to sound like an earpod without proper seal. I'd be quite keen on a custom silicone sleeve for it. Until then, this product is NG for as I can't even fit it in (have only tried the medium size tip but have little hope the small one would work either given the size of the nozzle).
Marv, maybe you need to play a little more with the fit before reserving such hard judgement. Personally, I did like the naturalness compared to multi driver units, and especially BA type. You'll probably tell me I haven't heard a well done BA then but still ;)
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The headband is ridiculous IMO. Never worked for me, and my head isn't big. The problem is the angle of it which causes discomfort and bad sound.
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Marv, maybe you need to play a little more with the fit before reserving such hard judgement. Personally, I did like the naturalness compared to multi driver units, and especially BA type. You'll probably tell me I haven't heard a well done BA then but still ;)
I'm getting sick of playing with IEM stuff. Why is it that ER-4S, UERM (non-custom), or even FAD FP8 required minimal playing around with to understand what they are trying to do. This IEM "you gotta play around with it with 84 dozen tips with 63 different insertion depths" is BS. Never made a difference with stuff I didn't like or felt it had no potential right off the bat. If one needs to play with it so much to recognize its strengths and see the light, then there are obvious engineering deficiencies.
The 002 is a strange one. It sounds clean in some ways, but also sloppy and grungy at the same time. You also have to take into consideration that I only went the 'stat route after the availability of more suitable amps. But yeah, the 002 does remind me a little bit of 'stats driver from the 007t or 727 - amps which I do not like - with the exception of the 009 which mysteriously works well, but still not optimally, with the 727.
Perhaps I find the 002 offensive because its takes sounding "natural" to a level of unseen heights of "natural".
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In my experience fit can make a huge difference. I've had some IEMs go from sounding like complete crap to sounding decent just from changing the tips. It's really annoying, but then fit has always been an annoyance for me with full-sized headphones too.
It seems like some earphones are more finicky than others in that regard, just due to their design. For example the FAD Piano Fortes which required minimal playing around for some people required a ton of messing around with for me. I had to resort to earhooks just because they kept falling out of my ears. I think the worst potential fit-related sound problems are with CIEMs ironically enough: when I first got mine back they sounded really bad, because the fit was off and the sound was exiting the bore at a bad angle. After the refit they sounded much, much better.
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I'm ok with the fit being critical, but it must be easy to attain once you have the right tips etc... I don't want to have to screw around every time I take them out of my ears. That is a recipe for me loosing interest quickly. They just won't get used. Time will tell with the 002 for me.
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Do these sound anything like the 009? I assume not since this is a IEM and not a full size HP.
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The previous revision was often referred to as a mini SR-007
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They don't sound like the 009 to me. Heck, the UERM sounds more like the 009.
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"Out for Delivery", woot. Yeah, I still get excited about new stuff. :)
Should be listening to them before lunch.
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I just bought a used set of old SR-001s - never had these before so looking forward to getting them.
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I had been watching for some decent prices on the 001 since folks would be "upgrading".
Rocking the 002's now!
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They don't sound like the 009 to me. Heck, the UERM sounds more like the 009.
Sorry I should of been more specific. Do they sound similar to the 009 with a little warmth? Hopefully that makes sense..lol
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They don't sound like the 009 to me. Heck, the UERM sounds more like the 009.
Sorry I should of been more specific. Do they sound similar to the 009 with a little warmth? Hopefully that makes sense..lol
They don't remind me of the 009 in their presentation at all.
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I may need to try the UERM...
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Just got these in from Justin. I immediately switched to eco mode to test and... unbearable high pitched whine. This product definitely went out the door with a bug. Enjoying them so far but I haven't really put them through their paces, just some piano/cello classical arrangements.
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Wow, am I the only one that has a set that doesn't whine on eco mode??
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Why didn't my post post? Second try!
My unit only squeals for about a second when I power it on. It is more apparent when NOT in Eco mode. After quickly fading I have no issues either.
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Yeah power up/down but that's not surprising or problematic. Should we post SN# to track the issue? If it's not a matter of production run order then perhaps it's random QC.
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Can't see that it would hurt... 1147 here.
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Well, at least I'm not alone here (sorry Tari!). My # is 1145.
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I need to find a nice solution for transporting the rig. The cheapo plastic earpieces seem like they are going to need good protection when I drop this system in a bag. Any ideas? Maybe a small pelican case or such with some foam cut to suit?
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SA2-1160
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Edit: Ha, now I see that Tari was replying with his serial number, not a pelican case recomendation, which just happens to be the right number for boths!
I had it sitting in my basket ready for check out... will pull the trigger now! :)p5
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I just realized that this adapter is available. It might be easier than switching the whole cable out each time you want to connect to a pro-bias jack.
Not cheap...
http://apuresound.com/images/cables/electrostatic/001/ (http://apuresound.com/images/cables/electrostatic/001/)
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And if you order from APS you might receive it two years later.
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Thanks for that subtle tip! I was considering it because I also need an adapter for the 950.
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I just realized that this adapter is available. It might be easier than switching the whole cable out each time you want to connect to a pro-bias jack.
Not cheap...
http://apuresound.com/images/cables/electrostatic/001/ (http://apuresound.com/images/cables/electrostatic/001/)
Funny price for 5 wires, 2 resistors and a bunch of bolts. DIY is far cheaper.
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Stax USA is saying that any SR-002 amp units that make the high freq noise in eco mode can be sent back. The noise is around 15khz, i think. i dont really want to unseal all my NIB units to test them, but i may have to. I believe that they all make this noise.
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I need to find a nice solution for transporting the rig. The cheapo plastic earpieces seem like they are going to need good protection when I drop this system in a bag. Any ideas? Maybe a small pelican case or such with some foam cut to suit?
Although the earpieces have a cheap feel to them I have found them to be quite durable, including their strain relief.
Thanks to the early adopters for finding and troubleshooting the squeal. Hopefully this doesn't completely tank the 002's rep.
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I believe that they all make this noise.
Not all...
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I may need to try the UERM...
No other transducer reminds me as much as the 009 as the UERM. The 007 is close because it's part of the same family, but tonally, the 009 is quite different. The UERM, especially when amped, really reminds me of the 009.
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I may need to try the UERM...
No other transducer reminds me as much as the 009 as the UERM.
Which is dandy if the 009 is what you're after... ;)
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I would say the 002 is more like the 007 than 009.
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I can get it less warm than the 007 in my ears but not 009 level. Somewhere in between overall but with an apparent spike here and there.
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I may need to try the UERM...
No other transducer reminds me as much as the 009 as the UERM. The 007 is close because it's part of the same family, but tonally, the 009 is quite different. The UERM, especially when amped, really reminds me of the 009.
Only in tone. The 009 crushes it in detail and separation, among others.
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keyword: reminds
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My first post here.
Analixus, which tips did you use for rolling?
The largest inner diameter I have been able to find is for nozzles of 4-6 mm.
The Stax nozzle is approximately 7x10 mm.
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I just started using the old style tips that MF recommended, and I'm converted. They are a better fit for me. I'm pretty good on this front now. I can grab them, plop them in my ear and I'm sealed and good to go right away, no hassles.
The only other thing I would like to try is a custom fit tip. I'm going to try this stuff, but I doubt the opening will be large enough... will see if it can be modified!
http://www.decibullz.com/shop/custom-earphone-molds/ (http://www.decibullz.com/shop/custom-earphone-molds/)
I also started using a DC power supply instead of batteries in the office. I still have a dead quiet background. Coupled with the Pico DAC I'm no longer depended on charging or buying batteries. I'm pretty happy with the office rig right now.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/shipsupt/officerig_zps9201ff3c.jpg)
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I just bought a used set of old SR-001s - never had these before so looking forward to getting them.
Did you get 'em?
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My first post here.
Analixus, which tips did you use for rolling?
The largest inner diameter I have been able to find is for nozzles of 4-6 mm.
The Stax nozzle is approximately 7x10 mm.
I used a pair of electronics tweezers to stretch out the tips and slide them around the housing nozzle. Requires a bit of finesse and patience at first.
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"I just started using the old style tips that MF recommended, and I'm converted. They are a better fit for me. I'm pretty good on this front now. I can grab them, plop them in my ear and I'm sealed and good to go right away, no hassles"
You mean the tips for the sr-001 Mk2?
I looked at the decibullz but the inside seems to be made of hard plastic pre molded for certain sizes/tips.
The one I may try is the Radians custom molded earplug, which several people have successfully used in their IEMs.
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Shipsupt you should send a pm to Boilermakerfan on HF. Hes not active anymore but was a couple years ago really into modding orthos and he was working on custom tips for the 001. Im not sure if he ever got it to work or not but he probably could offer some good advice.
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I just bought a used set of old SR-001s - never had these before so looking forward to getting them.
Did you get 'em?
no not yet. they're in Japan atm, was waiting on winning an auction of some old small stax speakers so they could be packed together.
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Yep, the 001 tips.
@RD - Thanks, I'll look him up.
"I just started using the old style tips that MF recommended, and I'm converted. They are a better fit for me. I'm pretty good on this front now. I can grab them, plop them in my ear and I'm sealed and good to go right away, no hassles"
You mean the tips for the sr-001 Mk2?
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Just got mine in. Interestingly, on eco, no one else I've handed them to can hear the whine but it's obvious to me. I'm SA2-1332. Since I won't be listening in eco, I won't bother sending them back to Japan.
Really liking how they don't isolate but won't annoy the coworkers. The sound is, as many have you described, excellent at low volumes. It literally fits my needs perfectly. Now I just need to build an adapter for my KGSSHV to try that out too.
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'grats.
Adapter or grab a 003 cable... adapter is far cheaper option!
Rumor has it that Rythmdevils is a fan of the 001, perhaps we can get him hooked on the 002 as well!
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I definitely like the 001 so far. It does a lot of things right. Strangely it's only big weakness so far is treble, which is very odd since it's a stat. It's got some of that vintage ortho rough treble thing going on.
Has anyone compared the 002 to the 001? Muppetface you have both right?
and where are you getting tips for the 001?
...oh, and is it a bad idea to use these in the sun? I imagine sunlight being damaging to the diaphragms, which sunlight can easily get to through the large opening in the back.
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The 001 tips seem to be around with a few of the typical STAX parts vendors: https://www.staxusa.com/parts/ear-pads/stax-silicone-earbud.html (https://www.staxusa.com/parts/ear-pads/stax-silicone-earbud.html) and occasionally on ebay. Prices are a little over the top. I'd guess that the 002 tips will be available at some point, but I prefer the 001's so I haven't been looking for them.
Mike was using tips from other IEMs.
Not sure about the sun thing, never gave it much thought either. I'd guess that leaving them in direct sun light might not be too good for them.
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Thread necro!!
But anyway, I'm only 2 years late. Will be grabbing Ravi's pair. These sound too good for me to pass up on. I have not considered IEM listening for a long time, until this pair.
Fit sucks. There is no way around it. I fiddled with it for so long before it actually made sense. So now these stay secured and tight on my head. I'm sure I can go jogging with them.
And I actually pushed them all the way in (very deep), then somehow, the ear tips just "locked on", and now they stay secure. Like this:
(http://s7.postimg.org/68xo1gvqv/Full_Size_Render.jpg) (http://s7.postimg.org/g68ouj3cr/Full_Size_Render.jpg)
Now... sound impression with good fit. Please note that this is with my ears, and stock tips, so YMMV and all that:
- Bass maintains very good pressure and punch while simultaneously sounding very tight and well-controlled. Actually sounds more like an ortho than a stat to me. Funny enough. Must be the fit.
- Lower mid a bit pushed up. Not unlike what I heard from the stock LCD-2/SR-007/Code-X.
- Midrange has a bit of harshness in the upper mids. Not sure if from amp or inherent to the earphones, but I'm inclined to say it's from the earphones. But the earphones are so fast that this is not apparent most of the time for me. It's only there when I push volume too high.
- Treble is actually ever present to me. This is just right at the edge of where I'd consider the headphone a bit bright versus neutral, etc... That said, it's not necessarily bright, or peaky. Hard to say. But it certainly doesn't sound rolled off in the treble region for me.
- Soundstage is surprisingly good for an in-ear... thing. I have tried many IEMs, and this is the first in-ear with which I can hear sound beyond my head.
- Imaging isn't particularly good. There is a huge gap in the center, and even bass impact sounds more localized to left-right rather than a punch right in the center.
- String instruments are a bit... smoothed over? Like I don't hear the sharp/piercing pluck of the guitar in some recordings. I'm guessing this is evidence that the headphone is hyper-fast that it's even glossing over the ringing? It sounds good and speedy, but sometimes not realistic, as the edge is taken away.
- Tonality to me is neutral, but a bit off with a few instruments (strings as described above). Just a tiny little bit. This is a good coloration to me, since I tend to prefer an easier listening experience. This one delivers just that.
- It's highly reminiscent of the SR-007 Mk.I to me, that and LCD-2/Code-X. But obviously more colored in the upper mid/lower treble region than the other ones.
- Attack/impact at any region (bass, mid, treble, you name it) is kinda rounded/soft/unsharp/inoffensive, but not necessarily laid-back. Hard to explain. But overall, it sounds less offensive to me than I can remember from other headphones.
Overall, I love it. When the right fit is achieved, I can shake my head violently, snack, drink, etc... and they won't fall out. No matter what. No pain either. But it's so freakin' fiddly!
But hey, this is the in-ear... thing to convert me from being an "earbuds or on-ear or full-size only" guy back to a portable in-ear setup, so... to me, that's super impressive.
P.S.: my impressions are all in Normal mode. Eco mode causes unbearable high-pitched whine to me. I can even hear it when I'm not putting the earphones on.