CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Marvey on December 09, 2011, 06:42:05 PM
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AKG K601 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Almost neutral and almost not bad except for a bump at 2.5k and double-octave ringing at 7.5k and 15kHz. I don't think the 15kHz ringing itself would be that bad, but it combined with the 7.5k ridge makes the overall effect rather nasty. Otherwise pretty darn clean.
Floors at -40db (for overhead) and -36db for bottom set.
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that's interesting. thing that gets me is the response after 10k cause to me my k601's sounds relaxed at the top-end and lacks a bit if air. only other thing is while they have good imaging it's not as open as my sextetts lp or even DF's. they also didn't have the clarity my sextetts lp and DF's have. that's my only gripe with them but other then that they're great headphone.i mainly use them for ipod duty from now on. works fine off the ipod despite the ridiculous amping claims.
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I have always preferred the K601 to the K701, it seems this plot shows why!
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I have always preferred the K601 to the K701, it seems this plot shows why!
i thought i was the only one. yea the k601 is much better over the k701 i think. AKG seems to manage make things sound worst the newer stuff they release.
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I have always preferred the K601 to the K701, it seems this plot shows why!
Not necessarily, we need to see K701 measurements on Marv's rig with Marv's brain.
Also, weren't the 601 and 701 released at the same time? I agree about AKG's downward trend, but I'm not sure this is an example of that even if the K701 measures worse. Someone needs to send in a 701! Acix? :P
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i believe so. maybe, i think. i know the drivers can't be the same since the 601 is 120ohms and 701 63ohms i believe. i know the foam disc inside over the drivers had lot to do with too and the pad materials. the pads on the k701 is velour while the k601 is velvet(which can probably led to better bass on the k601 and cause the k601 used a thick foam disc that covers the drivers and filters as well).
i'm guessing main difference between them might been pads and the foam disc.
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I have always preferred the K601 to the K701, it seems this plot shows why!
Not necessarily, we need to see K701 measurements on Marv's rig with Marv's brain.
Also, weren't the 601 and 701 released at the same time? I agree about AKG's downward trend, but I'm not sure this is an example of that even if the K701 measures worse. Someone needs to send in a 701! Acix? :P
I'm sure Acix would love to send them, expecting a perfect flat line, they are as he sais the best headphones everrrrrr.
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i have to admit though i think my k601 sounds bit smoother over my sextetts lp is one advantage it has. thing is, it can't handle no where near the power my sextetts lp can. driving the k601 off speaker outputs off my 1985 Class A Yamaha R-9 i thought i was gonna kill them when i hit play cause the drivers were flexing so hard with the amount of power and distorting like crazy. even off the headphone jack of my yamaha i can barely touch the volume knob and afraid of killing them. that's why i like using orthos,sextetts and high impedance low-sensitive headphones off of it. afraid of killing something lol. if it's not very high impedance or very low-sensitive i use the headphone jack. speaker outputs are sextetts,DF's and planer magnetic exclusives. other headphones on the headphone jack or another lower powered, power amp.
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How does it compare, the speaker outputs vs the headphone jack?
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tad bit cleaner sounding but barely noticeable. i would test farther but if i do the k601 would probably die.
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Haha, no don't kill the K601, was talking about the sextet's, what are the advantages/disadvantages on using the speaker plug. And do you just connect it directly, or do you use some sort of resistance between it?
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Haha, no don't kill the K601, was talking about the sextet's, what are the advantages/disadvantages on using the speaker plug. And do you just connect it directly, or do you use some sort of resistance between it?
i haven't tested in while since purrin has my 4-pin XLR to 1/4'' TRS adapter i made when i sent my Df's to him. i have them rewired with a 4-pin XLR jack and i made a 4-pin XLR to bare wire cable and run the DF's and sextetts that way off the speaker outputs. for other headphone and just for testing to see how headphones respond to speaker outputs i have a little black project box i bought from radioshack and wired some speaker terminals i had to a 1/4'' female TRS jack. most amps are common ground so no worry about killing them anyways so 1/4'' TRS jack is fine and so is wiring the 2 negatives together is to act as a double ground.
also there no reason to add any form of resistors since the headphone jack on my amps are already tied to the speaker outputs and power amp section via dropping resistors to limit the voltage swing to the headphone jack and give the jack it's given output impedance. the box i made uses the full force of the speaker outputs since it has no resistors. just straight wire. also output impedance is always close to 0 ohms on speaker outputs.
i can't say also since before then and when i sent my fostex and DF's out, i gotten my amps fully serviced and brought up to spec. my yamaha sounds better then ever brought up to spec,especially with my speakers, so when i get my cable back i'll let you know. i'm running the sextetts lp now off my outputs and sounds great but don't have any extra 1/4'' jacks laying around to test.
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Vic, i just want to let you i tested my sextetts lp off the headphone out and speaker outputs. any difference? nope. it gets insanely loud even off the jack without barely touching the volume knob and no sonic changes. the sextetts though still sound bit warmer in comparhension to my 240DF. my 240DF sounds nice and clean especially the vocals on my set-up. the Df's are also more refine in the top-end while sextetts being a bit brighter overall and bit more bass.
right now i'm trying purrin's SA5000 off the outputs via the speaker box i made to run headphones off the speaker outputs for testing, but also using -20db muting switch on my amp cause it's near impossible due to high gain/volume. the -20db switch fixes that. also always running my amp in Class A even when i'm listening to headphones. will try to give my quick impressions later on though after church/mass since i had more time to listen to them.
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Thanks for letting me know! And I'v got to get myself one of those DF's!
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no prob. glad to help.
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i also forgot to mention. if you get pair of 240Df. make sure they're cleaned out and replace the basic cloth with 240 foam disc available from AKG. why? the foam disc has big impact on the sound. it will help tame the brightness down bit and add tad bit more bass same time making them sound much more natural sounding. they have great clarity as well and seem to like good amount of voltage to them cause of their low sensitivity. they have the lowest sensitivity of all the AKG's besides the K1000. i know purrin had slight impression on them but i sill find these still one of my favorite headphones on my set-up. i used them to help fine tune my Fostex T50RP also. just my 240DF defiantly has bit more air extension. they also provide sense of realism i feel.
the foam disc though is important for the 240DF. without it the bass is thinned out and will sound very bright sounding. the speaker cloth i had in mine was too thin to fully do same effect as the foam disc, but it was my fault on my part at the time cause i didn't have extras and i forgot to double layer the speaker cloth to simulate the 240 foam disc.
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On the secondary short list...
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Now its time for a K612 measurement :D
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Now its time for a K612 measurement :D + 1
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I guess I am extra sensitive to CSD ringing... more than a lot of people on the other site anyway because even though people say that these k612s I am listening to right now (like the k601s) are warm and more neutral than the q701s, they are shouty and bright to me. Not even close to HD600s in quality IMO
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I guess I am extra sensitive to CSD ringing... more than a lot of people on the other site anyway because even though people say that these k612s I am listening to right now (like the k601s) are warm and more neutral than the q701s, they are shouty and bright to me. Not even close to HD600s in quality IMO
I'm guessing it has a lot to do with the fact that AKG designed these to measure flat with a diffuse field curve applied as compensation in the measurement device. Most HATS measurements have the diffuse field compensation curve applied. If you take raw amplitude measurements, it becomes apparent that it has a strong treble that sounds like listening to music in an empty jail cell. It's definitely something that can be called bright and shouty.
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Its not just the frequency response that bugs me. Theres a cuppiness to them that I dislike. An echoey plasticky sound.
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Nevermind, I put in the original foams and the sound is now good. Theres still a 2khz peak but theres no more annoying reverby sound
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The 2kHz peak is a feature of the 600 & 700 series phones. Anyway, these should still be on the bright side even with the foam in. How's the sibilance? It shouldn't be bad despite the FR bump in that range. And how's the low end treating you?
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Low end is okay, even but lacks power handling. they distort with some heavy bass at loud volumes. Understandable being these cans are only maxxed at 200mW and they aren't sensitive at all so I'm thinking they really can't go loud at all. They aren't bright like the k701s but the 2khz peak still makes them sound a little artificial. I am talking about the k612s by the way, not the k601.
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Some quick math tells me these can get to 114.8dB at 200mW. They'll require 41mA of current to get there. Yeah, I'm talking about the K612 as well, so we're good. :money:
I'm thinking that these probably sound great for $200 so I'm thinking of getting these and a Vali for 'em.
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I really like the K601. What surprises me is how little attention it got really, but I have a K612 on the way and yet again, it's been mostly overshadowed/ignored with no FR plots or real detailed descriptions other than subjective responses.
Has anyone else replaced their K601? I'd love to know what was changed.
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I never got any K6xx phones because after a bit more digging I found they were designed to have a particular sound that was less appealing to me than what I've got now. The K601 is pretty much perfectly aligned to the diffuse field sound curve... more than any other headphone ever made.
I hope you like the new ones. I'm also curious about what changed from the K601.
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They arrived and I must say, I'm really chuffed with them. I enjoyed the K601 a great deal and was curious as to what has been done to the K612.
I feel that there are 'improvements' but they are quite slight. The bass seems more present and the treble slightly less edgy. (I'm not sure whether the slightly raised bass makes the treble 'seem' lower)
I changed the pads to K702 pads since they are a bit deeper and angled. Some have claimed that this raises the bass. I didn't notice in particular whether it did, but the bass is really well balanced with the rest of the spectrum and I love the detail that you can hear down there. The sound of bass guitars has a lovely 'rubber band' tone instead of a tuned 'thud' which I really do like.
Only slight cosmetic changes - cable is a bit thinner and more flexible. A plug that adapts for large/small jack sockets. Dark pads. (Maybe different material) the headphone looks a bit sleeker with its new colours.
In the UK, these can be bought for £115 - £130 which for the sound that you get is excellent. I must admit, this has made me more curious about the K712 which I heard yesterday and really liked as well.
No one seen a FR plot for the K612?
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Glad you like them, and I'm glad to hear about the subtle yet improved tonal shift that AKG gave the K612.
No, I haven't seen an FR.
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In fact, the tonal shift in the treble is quite pronounced with the K702 pads. They are a lot smoother sounding in the treble and there is more quantity of bass than on the K601. Like the whole sound has been shifted down a notch, making them a great deal more relaxed sounding than the K601.
Switching back to the original pads opens the top up more, so for now, I'll stay with the originals. However, the sound of the top end still seems slightly less strident than the K601.
I'm very curious how the FR graphs compare between the two.
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Do you like the K612 for softer listening sessions? If so is it a good headphone for that purpose?
Going by your impressions the K612 seems a lot of value for money.
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Beware. There are other impressions out there that make it sound like it's blaring at you in a concrete chamber. I do think we need more pirate time and impressions on the K612 overall to really set the record straight, however.
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I've used a K601 virtually since they emerged and only yesterday switched to the K612.
The K601 has a 'light' sound and in comparison to many headphones, they sound bass light and the treble is a problem for some. However, if you compare them to other treble rich headphones like the Sony 7506, they are less aggressive than you think and way more open sounding.
The K701 is similar but there is something about the treble that I really don't like. It seems harsher than the K601 for me but is perhaps a little more detailed and etched. I think the K601 bass is nicer than the K701.
They have one of the most neutral sounds I've heard from an unmodded headphone if I'm honest.
I also use a T40 modded by Solderdude (Therefore measured) and it has an active filter in order to extend the top end. The T40 doesn't extend too far up after simple physical mods, but the K601 is more open as it is.
I also have a Solderdude modded K550, which has the treble spikes smoothes out. That matches pretty well with the K601 but the K601 is warmer than the K550.
I use the Senn HD600 and 650 - and they both sound quite 'fat' by comparison. The ATH a900 is similar in sound, but I think the K601 has a more extended bass and is less coloured.
Beyer DT990 has way more bass with a top end that is ramped as well, so you are very aware of that going from the K601.
Just a few references since I have headphones growing out of my ears!!
The K612 just adds a smidgen more in the bottom and is extremely close to the K601. In fact, very little difference imo. If people were worried about paying for a headphone, I'd say, stick with the K601.
If you change the pads to K702, the mids of the K601/K612 drop and so does the level of the treble. The bass also gets boosted so that it sounds much more like a Senn HD600. So the cop out is, if it's too sharp in the top, change the pads and it really won't be. In fact, it's remarkably similar to a Sennheiser sound, which was a big surprise for me when I changed the pads.
Personally, I like the K702 pads on it, but I am aware that it skews the FR so I'm staying with the K612 pads which make it a wonderfully open sounding headphone, with a bass that really isn't overstated and an openness that isn't really matched by many other headphones.
It sells at what I'd call a great price for the quality that you get and yes, it would work really well at low level.
I think we need to see a FR chart for the K612 before we jump to conclusions. Tyll's graph doesn't show a rise at 2KHz which is strange, since some claim to 'hear' it. GE does show it.
My guess is that the K612 is very close to K601 (with perhaps the bump at 2KHz) which has been measured on here but it doesn't look too shabby a FR at all for a headphone that costs £130 in the UK. I'd really like to see its frequency response with the K702 pads. It's a very different sound. No way harsh at all. Very mellow.
What is quite strange is how Thomann are selling K702 pads, saying that these are also right for other AKG's like the K601, 612 and 701. They alter the sound of the headphone from standard and Thomann don't stock K612 pads. They have 601's which are grey but 612's are black. (and look nicer imo)
I'm lucky - mine was sent FOC and if I keep it, I don't pay tax on them so I'd get it for roughly £80 I guess. In any case, they're not exactly what I'd call an expensive headphone for the quality that you get from them.
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AKG K601 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Almost neutral and almost not bad except for a bump at 2.5k and double-octave ringing at 7.5k and 15kHz. I don't think the 15kHz ringing itself would be that bad, but it combined with the 7.5k ridge makes the overall effect rather nasty. Otherwise pretty darn clean.
Floors at -40db (for overhead) and -36db for bottom set.
I Assume those draggy 15khz comes from k601's thick and stiff driver. As far as I know AKG K601's driver does quite a thicker than other dynamic driver. I can see it's impedance response that goes up extremely high after 5k that is usually caused by stiff or heavier driver. That's been said k601 has problem with damping on treble. it is probably causing decay issue on 15k.