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Author Topic: How to get rid of the 1-4 khz dip on the HD 800 ? / Anax 3.0  (Read 705 times)

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Serious

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How to get rid of the 1-4 khz dip on the HD 800 ? / Anax 3.0
« on: June 07, 2014, 09:54:39 PM »
What I didn't mention when I joined is that I actually got myself a very basic (ghetto #2) measurement setup about 4 weeks ago when I tried to improve the Anax 2.0 mod in my HD 800. Im using a CD as a plate and foam to seal and get the mic to fit in there (lol). I dont have any damping on the CD and Im getting huge artifacts >10k (peak + resonance) so I guess I should try ...  :)p13 ... I also get a dip around 7.5k. Noise is at 28db which pretty much renders distortion measurements useless. However it does seem to fare ok when it comes to repeatability, CSDs up to around 10k and general accuracy.

My anax 2.0 mod mod right now:
So basically I tried to eliminate the 6k ringing and I think I pretty much achieved that. Channel imbalance was a problem in the beginning but I think both channels are good now. I ended up using 2 layers of different kinds of felt underneath the foam (seems to work better this way around). One was 3mm thick and rather soft (white) and the other one was really thin (black). Because of the thickness I ended up cutting one of the white ones in half so it should be around 1.5mm thick now.
The black one is directly ontop of the metal ring, dimensions are 55mm inner diameter (tyll's mod) and around 9mm width. The white one should be a little thinner with the same inner diameter (probably around 8mm wide). The foam I am using is 2mm thick and looks pretty much identical to the creatology foam (they could be the same) and I am using the neutral Anax 2.0 cutouts for that one. My rug/shelf liner is most likely thinner than the original one and I think I should get the original thicker one ... Mine is black though :). I guess the differences are minor especially with how effective the felt seems to be.


looks extremely clean, openness is ok, even stock doesnt seem to get me much better results here, prolly my measurement setup ...
obviously treble is much smoother than it looks and the ringing doesnt actually exist.
I guess these should be really close to the Anax 3.0 tease but I dont think they are anywhere near the current Anax 3.0.

Even though they measure so cleanly (and it certainly sounds like it to me) it only solves half of the problem for me. The huge dip from 1-4khz really keeps annoying me. No matter what I try, it doesnt go away. Of course I have read that the Anax 3.0 "fills in the 3-4k null" ( HF dac thread ) so I know it can be done but I cant figure out how.
From what I know the 6k peak is mainly caused by the metal ring around the driver (ringing doesnt seem to go away if you remove it so the leona doesnt seem to be much better. Damping under the ring is most likely mechanical and not acoustical afaik)
The 1-2k dip could be the pads but Im not sure and the 3-4k null is most likely the steel mesh, at least thats what I have concluded. I might be completely wrong, it could be anything.
However I still cant quite make out how to get rid of it and Im pretty sure only Anax knows.

My english sucks.
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Re: How to get rid of the 1-4 khz dip on the HD 800 ? / Anax 3.0
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2014, 02:34:06 AM »
Very nice. I too use a CD as a plate, but I put a larger piece of high density foam over the CD. The CD rests upon a sponge / medium density foam. In addition, I also place a rectangle strip of felt over one portion of the foam to prevent too good of a seal on the foam. The felt is sort of supposed to simulate the effect of hear.

I guess you could try different sorts of materials for the rug liner too, or perhaps different cutout patterns. As usual, YMMV, and personal preferences will play a role. Of course we all know the HD800 is 120% perfect, and only bad recordings sound bad on them. And yes, there is a slight recession of the HD800 in the mids / female vocals. Or we can think of it as a very broad bump centered around the high bass instead.
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OJneg

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Re: How to get rid of the 1-4 khz dip on the HD 800 ? / Anax 3.0
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2014, 03:18:52 AM »
Can we get a pic of that Marv?
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MattTCG

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Re: How to get rid of the 1-4 khz dip on the HD 800 ? / Anax 3.0
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2014, 12:16:52 AM »
Quote from: OJneg on June 08, 2014, 03:18:52 AM
Can we get a pic of that Marv?

Yes, please...
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Ringingears

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Re: How to get rid of the 1-4 khz dip on the HD 800 ? / Anax 3.0
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2014, 03:05:33 AM »
Did I get lucky? (this once, because my luck with expensive equipment failure has been well, expensive). Or has my hearing gone to shit? But I'm not hearing these issues with my new HD 800.
I'm still sensitive to treble issues as the DT 880's drive me nuts. Maybe I just haven't listened long enough to find what I don't like  about them .
I have a weak ass hypothesis. I listen at lower volumes most of the time and rarely play low quality source material. I do hear when a recording was poorly done. Most recently the CD of James Taylor and Carol King Live. Wow, they really blew that one! We know that some of it is due to cup resonance issues, but Anax you have said that the treble problems aren't prominent at low volumes. Now you all have me listening for the dip dammit! Solderdude's ( I feel under appreciated Sunrise 2 amp matches well, it shouldn't but so far does for me). I am using the Wadia 2.5 Digimaster DAC most of the time, but the Gungnir is nice as well. Did I get an outside the bell curve set of drivers?  Who knows, but I'm listening to some hi-rez Beethoven's 5th, and I'm almost in the hall. 

Right now I have modding material. But I don't see a need for it yet. Perhaps in time I will come to have a love/hate relationship with them. If I can make it to the NorCal mini meet I will be interested in what you guys hear.
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Re: How to get rid of the 1-4 khz dip on the HD 800 ? / Anax 3.0
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2014, 05:09:06 AM »
Quote from: Ringingears on December 13, 2014, 03:05:33 AM
Did I get lucky? (this once, because my luck with expensive equipment failure has been well, expensive). Or has my hearing gone to shit? But I'm not hearing these issues with my new HD 800.
I'm still sensitive to treble issues as the DT 880's drive me nuts. Maybe I just haven't listened long enough to find what I don't like  about them .
I have a weak ass hypothesis. I listen at lower volumes most of the time and rarely play low quality source material. I do hear when a recording was poorly done. Most recently the CD of James Taylor and Carol King Live. Wow, they really blew that one! We know that some of it is due to cup resonance issues, but Anax you have said that the treble problems aren't prominent at low volumes. Now you all have me listening for the dip dammit! Solderdude's ( I feel under appreciated Sunrise 2 amp matches well, it shouldn't but so far does for me). I am using the Wadia 2.5 Digimaster DAC most of the time, but the Gungnir is nice as well. Did I get an outside the bell curve set of drivers?  Who knows, but I'm listening to some hi-rez Beethoven's 5th, and I'm almost in the hall. 

Right now I have modding material. But I don't see a need for it yet. Perhaps in time I will come to have a love/hate relationship with them. If I can make it to the NorCal mini meet I will be interested in what you guys hear.


Ron, you can always order the chart for your set from Sennheiser and compare with others. Even -0.25 dB at the peak and +0.25 in the valley can provide notably better long term listening.
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Ringingears

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Re: How to get rid of the 1-4 khz dip on the HD 800 ? / Anax 3.0
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2014, 08:09:31 PM »
Thanks. I'll contact them. I have been able to listen to several albums in a row with no fatigue. Twice I've fallen asleep about 2 am listening to some classical.  p:8
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Maxx134

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Re: How to get rid of the 1-4 khz dip on the HD 800 ? / Anax 3.0
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2015, 04:08:17 PM »
Quote from: Serious on June 07, 2014, 09:54:39 PM
What I didn't mention when I joined is that I actually got myself a very basic (ghetto #2) measurement setup about 4 weeks ago when I tried to improve the Anax 2.0 mod in my HD 800. Im using a CD as a plate and foam to seal and get the mic to fit in there (lol). I dont have any damping on the CD and Im getting huge artifacts >10k (peak + resonance) so I guess I should try ...  :)p13 ... I also get a dip around 7.5k. Noise is at 28db which pretty much renders distortion measurements useless. However it does seem to fare ok when it comes to repeatability, CSDs up to around 10k and general accuracy.

My anax 2.0 mod mod right now:
So basically I tried to eliminate the 6k ringing and I think I pretty much achieved that. Channel imbalance was a problem in the beginning but I think both channels are good now. I ended up using 2 layers of different kinds of felt underneath the foam (seems to work better this way around). One was 3mm thick and rather soft (white) and the other one was really thin (black). Because of the thickness I ended up cutting one of the white ones in half so it should be around 1.5mm thick now.
The black one is directly ontop of the metal ring, dimensions are 55mm inner diameter (tyll's mod) and around 9mm width. The white one should be a little thinner with the same inner diameter (probably around 8mm wide). The foam I am using is 2mm thick and looks pretty much identical to the creatology foam (they could be the same) and I am using the neutral Anax 2.0 cutouts for that one. My rug/shelf liner is most likely thinner than the original one and I think I should get the original thicker one ... Mine is black though :). I guess the differences are minor especially with how effective the felt seems to be.


looks extremely clean, openness is ok, even stock doesnt seem to get me much better results here, prolly my measurement setup ...
obviously treble is much smoother than it looks and the ringing doesnt actually exist.
I guess these should be really close to the Anax 3.0 tease but I dont think they are anywhere near the current Anax 3.0.

Even though they measure so cleanly (and it certainly sounds like it to me) it only solves half of the problem for me. The huge dip from 1-4khz really keeps annoying me. No matter what I try, it doesnt go away. Of course I have read that the Anax 3.0 "fills in the 3-4k null" ( HF dac thread ) so I know it can be done but I cant figure out how.
From what I know the 6k peak is mainly caused by the metal ring around the driver (ringing doesnt seem to go away if you remove it so the leona doesnt seem to be much better. Damping under the ring is most likely mechanical and not acoustical afaik)
The 1-2k dip could be the pads but Im not sure and the 3-4k null is most likely the steel mesh, at least thats what I have concluded. I might be completely wrong, it could be anything.
However I still cant quite make out how to get rid of it and Im pretty sure only Anax knows.

My english sucks.
It was suggest in the annax threads I forget where, to try different liner material.

I found the black liner holes to be too big of much sonic use and used the recomended white liner but recently found slightly smaller blue liner which had more effect so I used this blue type.
Also regardless I herd benifit removing the metal rings and replaced with small plastic tabs to hold in the unit with screws.
Once metal ring is gone, In that empty channel was space to put the annax2.0 green foam and on top a thin strip of rug liner to achieve similar results except more soundstage .
The sonic clues of reviealing more hd800 potential leads me to believe once the annax3.0 comes we will have truly superior headphone..
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The human ear is capable of detecting ONE hydrogen atom,
yet the brain's processing of sound,
 filters these constant occurrences out (!)
So when they say, "I can't hear a difference", you can say,
"It's all in your mind"! :p