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CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
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Subjective impressions on frequency ranges
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Bill-p
Would you like graphs with that?
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Subjective impressions on frequency ranges
«
on:
January 29, 2015, 07:48:08 PM »
I thought this was an interesting discussion... as it would give quite a bit more insight into what's going on in those frequency response and CSD graphs that we have access to, and it may give way for more research later.
Personally, I hear frequency ranges like this:
<20Hz: felt as puffs of air
20-60Hz: rumble, theater/battlefield atmosphere stuffs
60-150Hz: impact
150-300Hz: bloat when resonant or distorted
300-500Hz: warmth in vocal, or some may call it "bass bleed"
500-1KHz: cuppy, vocal emphasis, boosting this range will most likely cause a forward/in-your-face sound
1-2KHz: what some refer to as "upper midrange". Audio Technica headphones in the past typically boost this range quite hard core (can be seen on FR graphs)
2-4KHz: "shouty", as some would say. Having a healthy amount of this range will give "texture" to vocals, but too much and it's harsh/annoying
4-6KHz: "edgy/sharp", I think this range specifically boost "definition" and "resolution" per se. But too much of it can be grating (a la HD800)
6-8KHz: sibilance... plain and simple.
8-10KHz: peakiness, sparkle, some call this "high frequency extension", but I hear it more as "limit of my ability to withstand high frequency sounds"
>10KHz: just gets more and more piercing until it dies off. Some call this region "air", but I don't think so. I think the misconception stems from the fact that when people force an EQ for these frequencies, their headphones sound more "open". Personally, I think the phenomenon is more closely related to how DSP (either in software or hardware) is shaping the impulse in order to match the EQ settings, and as a result, the impulse decays faster than usual, thus giving this impression of "air". This is just a guess though, from simulating square wave and looking at their forms when EQ is applied. I'm not sure this is the case in reality.
In my opinions, what many refer to as "air" is simply a faster, or more "natural" decay of mid to high frequencies. This can be achieved pretty easily by open-back headphones because they have very little enclosure resonance as opposed to closed-back headphones. Most closed-back headphones are very poorly damped, and this prevents them from being "airy".
On the other hand, being "airy" alone doesn't necessarily mean a headphone will have great soundstage. I think "air" aids in accurate reproduction of sound imaging and "separation", but "soundstage" is an entirely different ballpark that probably has more to do with the acoustic space in between the ears and the diaphragms. From what I can tell so far: distance from ear to diaphragm determines distance to sound source, and thus aids in creating "depth" and "width", and angle of the driver/diaphragm relative to the listener's ear would determine the "shape" of the soundstage. But I haven't been able to pinpoint exactly what would create a good "height".
Anyway, please discuss, and be merciless in your refutation/agreement of my opinions.
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Hands
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Re: Subjective impressions on frequency ranges
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Reply #1 on:
January 29, 2015, 08:28:33 PM »
I agree with a lot of that. <60Hz is primarily rumble and some impact. 60-150Hz or so is mostly impact and a sense of thickness and body to the sound. 150Hz to somewhere around 300-500Hz also adds a sense of thickness but with more of a "bloat" to the sound or, if the response is high enough and centered more around that 300-500Hz spot, it makes things sound wooly (think everything sounding like it's going "wow" or "whoa"). Anything up through 1KHz or so seems to give certain instruments and vocals a sense of body and presence (i.e. not thin).
1-2KHz or so can sound shouty. Best way to describe it. An emphasis in the 2-4KHz or 5KHz range starts to sound "hot" to my ears. Enough of it starts to give the sound a rough, grainy quality (almost like, uh, loud sandpaper).
5-8KHz or so primarily has more of a raspy sort of rough quality.
9-11KHz or so is less offensive when elevated and starts to give the impression of definition. Too much of it can start to make things sound thin or tinny. Or too sharp.
Generally elevation above 11KHz can be a mixed bag. Usually it's not so much of an issue, but sometimes it can just me feel uneasy in ways that are hard to explain. Like a light piercing.
I do think frequency response plays a large role when it comes to airiness and soundstage, but it's not the only criteria by any means. And I think there's more to air/soundstage than upper frequencies. For example, with certain instruments and vocals, having good midrange quality from top to bottom can give them a better sense of lower end reverb and body that assists with a different sort of airiness and placement. I've also heard headphones with certain treble peaks that make things sound closer and more congested than they would otherwise. And some headphones with depressed upper treble response do sound less open and generally more compressed. There are always counter examples, though, so it's a loose correlation. I think it's best to have a sort of balanced response from top to bottom to capture everything well.
All just my opinion, of course...And in terms of what I find pleasing or not, that's a whole different story. I've found I'm OK with some extra bass (probably inner basshead and the fact I started my audio journey with a bass-heavy DIY car system), though I don't care for an emphasis centered around 300Hz or so, but anything in the upper-mids or treble that sounds subjectively elevated or peaky, even slightly, is the fastest way to kill something for me (even when I'm not listening to my go-to genres or at low volumes).
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Re: Subjective impressions on frequency ranges
«
Reply #2 on:
January 29, 2015, 09:02:12 PM »
Good effort to build vocabulary.
Described in terms of peaks (harder to hear nulls for the most part):
125
Punch
250
Warmth
400
Fullness
Muddy
600
Nasal
1k
Honk.
2-3k
Vocal shrillness.
Guitar crunch.
Shouty.
4-5k
Adds a bit of edge, bite, and excitement to the sound.
Detail (macro / coarse).
6k
Generally tolerable, but unpleasant.
Similar to 5k in that it adds some bite
Hardness bordering on glare.
7k
Glare galore with some sibilance.
Sharpness.
8k
Very bad. Nasty. Painful.
Sibilance with some tizziness.
9k-12k
Adds definition.
More tolerable, but still unpleasant if too much.
Tizziness and sizzle.
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Re: Subjective impressions on frequency ranges
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Reply #3 on:
January 29, 2015, 09:09:37 PM »
MORE - give or take a 1/2 octave
Also, "working" terms, so Nazi's need not apply.
Sub Bass < 40Hz
Low Bass 40-100
Mid Bass 90-180
Upper Bass 180-300
Lower Mids / "Fundamentals Region" 300-700
Middle Mids 600-2000
Upper Mids 2000-6000
Lower Treble 6000-8000
Mid Treble 8000-11000
High Treble / "Air" - 11,000-20,000
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Re: Subjective impressions on frequency ranges
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Reply #4 on:
January 29, 2015, 09:29:10 PM »
From my personal experience through the years:
<40hz: sub-bass. felt more than heard, not as big of a factor on headphones because they don't pressurize much air
40-80hz: low bass. a healthy amount adds a solid foundation to sound. too much muddies the sound.
80-125hz: mid bass. emphasized mid-bass can lead to added sense of impact, too much can lead to muddiness
125-250hz: upper bass. a healthy amount that isn't bloated leads to warm sounding qualities. bloated upper bass can lead to dark sounding headphones. is more thickness than impact.
250-700hz: lower midrange; fundamental region. a healthy amount leads to warm and natural sound, too little leads to cold sound, and 'closed cup' coloration.
700-2000hz: middle-mids. presence region, voice recognition and start of many instruments' harmonics. too much can lead to shouty, plasticky qualities. too little can lead to hollowness and thinness. I prefer slightly less than neutral in this area.
2000-4000hz: upper mids: think guitar crunch and upper brass and string energy. Too much can lead to edgy and hard sound. Too little leads to dullness.
4000-8000hz: lower treble, adds mixture of edginess, snap and breathiness to music. Too much leads to sibilance and glare; primary sibilance area.
8000-11000hz: mid-treble, definition area. A lot of headphones have a peak here to add a false sense of 'hi-fi'ish'definition. Small peaks are tolerable, but too large a peak is a disaster. Especially hard to control resonances in this area. Tizzy.
11000hz and beyond: upper treble-- is felt as pressure more than heard-- just like sub-bass. adds 'air' to sound. Too much is piercing.
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Re: Subjective impressions on frequency ranges
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Reply #5 on:
January 29, 2015, 09:46:05 PM »
Made this picture a while ago
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Use your ears to enjoy music, not as an analyser.
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Re: Subjective impressions on frequency ranges
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Reply #6 on:
January 29, 2015, 10:13:24 PM »
Dubstep girl agrees.
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Re: Subjective impressions on frequency ranges
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Reply #7 on:
January 30, 2015, 08:05:52 AM »
Thks for the thread. This is really a topic I'm interested in.
Can we to sum up something as a collective work we can make reference to ? At best could we associate some useful track tests well suited to analyze each FR ? And examples of headphones that can illustrate peaks and dips in their sound sig?
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Re: Subjective impressions on frequency ranges
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Reply #8 on:
January 30, 2015, 11:50:55 AM »
This chart sill nails it, more or less, for me...
http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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Re: Subjective impressions on frequency ranges
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Reply #9 on:
January 30, 2015, 08:38:48 PM »
Another thing that really helped me was listening to a playlist of ascending test tones, while looking at such charts. I do not recommend this as a tool to actually analyze your headphones, since it is completely artificial, but it provides mental anchor points for each of the relevant frequencies. Its one thing to look at a chart and wonder if you are envisioning the correct type of discomfort. Its another thing entirely to listen to an 8kHz tone and say "ah, yes."
I find that doing this periodically helps me listen more critically, and helps me make more understandable notes when I am listening to new / different headphones.
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CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
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Subjective impressions on frequency ranges