CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone, IEM, and Other Audio Related Discussion => Topic started by: Marvey on August 20, 2014, 07:10:33 PM
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Just a tease. Resurrected from the dead.
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1735.0;attach=7441;image)
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We've been waiting 7 years:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/266778/eddie-currents-upcoming-ss-amp-called-red-top
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Part 1.
Evidently Craig dug up the prototype a few months ago. Board in a square case with a temporary power supply (seen below). The idea was to make something under a $1000. I think Craig shit-canned this amp 6-7 years ago because of lack of demand.
Given the current market (insane pricing for amps) and the desire from many of us who want a no frills reasonably priced SS amp for work that sounded good, I believe Craig decided to give this a go. I would assume this is sort of a risk for him - a change from low volume higher cost amps, so we'll see were it goes.
The prototype with the makeshift power supply (NOTE what piece of gear is used as a place mat for the linear power supply - hahahahahaha!) sounded quite fantastic. A solid-state amp with a lot of the EC house sound. That's really what amazed me.
Craig's motto for this amp was either "Good sound for cheap" or "it's organic sounding, not bright". I know he's never been happy that his cheapest amp was $2200. (The S7 wasn't exactly a big hit.)
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If I had known how good of a stand it made, I'd have kept the TEAC.
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by the way, please post the questions you guys asked in the shoutbox. i don't remember them.
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HD800 impressions please.. TY
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What's the projected cost of any future upgrades?
Any timelines on when the first run will start?
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Hd800, for sure, please
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HE560? and availability?
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Part 2
Instead of teasing you guys more, I'll quickly comment on the Red Top with HD800. I used Quest/Raif's old HD800 last night for a little over two hours last night as we were discussing the use of marijuana and potheads in Santa Cruz beating up Jehovah's witnesses in the shoutbox. These HD800s had Tyll's Anax mod, so they are actually brighter than the current 2.0 iteration. They also used the stock cables. For others to calibrate to their own tastes, I find the stock HD800 unbearably bright.
I used a variety of tracks from old Soundgarden, the Journey Escape SACD, GNR, Scorpions, Eva Cassidy, Patricia Barber, etc. This was purely intentional. I can attest that I had absolutely no issue with any kind of etch, nasty treble, excess sibilance, etc. at least with those tracks in question. It was still bright - just not nasty. The only caveat to this observation is that I actually think the amp settled down (or my ears adjusted) after being left on for a few hours by the time I got to the HD800.
The first hour was strictly with the PM-2 with alt. PM-1 pads. Great combination BTW. The second hour was with a variety of headphones, AD2000, Paradox, MA900, Abyss. The last two with the HD800. I have a tendency to believe that SS takes a lot longer than tubes to settle down, like hours.
For those who have heard the 4-45 or Levi, the amp is less bright than the 4-45 but brighter than the Levi. The treble timbre is definitely different from tubes though with more of a "snap" coloration, but yet at the same time sounding nothing at all from some other SS amps. I found the timbre realistic in its own SS way. As with other EC amps, the Red Top has plenty of bite, but the treble edge is taken off. The attacks are definitely much more precise and delineated than the EC tube amps - but this is what SS does well.
As far as bass impact and balls, not quite there compared to 4-45 (and hence BA, etc.) or Mojo (two hard hitting amps). I would say more than Vali, Crack, but less than the big boys mentioned above. A huge part of this would lie with the DAC - so be careful here. I was originally running with Loki as the DAC and saying to myself "hmm, this sucks, not dynamic enough in sub low bass"... until I switched over the M7/OR5. DAC does matter.
But but but, the best part... what Craig refers to as the "organic" aspect, which meshes well with the HD800. More in a bit.
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HE560? and availability?
Don't call right now. Craig's working out some minor details. Give him two to three days. Availability should quick. All parts are locally sourced. No transformer experiments necessary on this one.
Did not have HE-560 on hand, but I am almost certain it will work well.
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Part 3
So anyways... The challenge was make the darn amp - while keeping it affordable. Obviously that huge linear power supply (two power supplies actually) sitting on top of the Teac DAC serving as place mat would put the price way past $1k territory. I believe another consideration was compatibility with 220V since it seems the American market is reaching a saturation point. Evidently a lot of EC orders are now from Asia.
Board #2 - pre-production: The PCB is now expanded to include a high-frequency charge pump, DC to DC. A cheap 12VDC wall wart compatible with 115/220 can now be used. Extra power supply capacitance has been added. You can turn off the amp, and it will run for a few seconds. Also, the input transistor pairs are changed out and replaced with a single package with matched parts.
I take this to work. Hmmm. Bummer. Kinda bright. Not totally nasty bright, but bright. Thin. Bass has good extension, but impact is lost. I say to Craig: "Fuck it, not worth making. It's decent, but it doesn't distinguish itself. I mean it's good, but there's so much other there, and everyone else has a better marketing strategy than you. And they also pay Jude. This won’t sell.”
“Is this the fault of the power supply? If the linear power supply is the secret, then there's no way for you to make this amp affordable."
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Part 3
So anyways... The challenge was make the darn amp - while keeping it affordable. Obviously that huge linear power supply (two power supplies actually) sitting on top of the Teac DAC serving as place mat would put the price way past $1k territory. I believe another consideration was compatibility with 220V since it seems the American market is reaching a saturation point. Evidently a lot of EC orders are now from Asia.
Board #2 - pre-production: The PCB is now expanded to include a high-frequency charge pump, DC to DC. A cheap 12VDC wall wart compatible with 115/220 can now be used. Extra power supply capacitance has been added. You can turn off the amp, and it will run for a few seconds. Also, the input transistor pairs are changed out and replaced with a single package with matched parts.
I take this to work. Hmmm. Bummer. Kinda bright. Not totally nasty bright, but bright. Thin. Bass has good extension, but impact is lost. I say to Craig: "Fuck it, not worth making. It's decent, but it doesn't distinguish itself. I mean it's good, but there's so much other there, and everyone else has a better marketing strategy than you. And they also pay Jude. This won’t sell.”
“Is this the fault of the power supply? If the linear power supply is the secret, then there's no way for you to make this amp affordable."
Really fascinating...mirrors our experience with switching supplies. And charge pumps? Yark. Really interested to hear if he got it working. If so, kudos.
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If I pay in gold dubloons, will Craig include a ridiculous battery in the same chassis?
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You can borrow this. I can drive to a meet, and take it out of the car. It's tiny and only a few pounds.
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Part 4
OK. So I meet up with Craig at the end of the day at his office. I didn't feel I needed to hear more after spending the day with latest iteration of the amp (used Paradox - not much choice at work). We want to test and isolate the power supplies. We first take a quick listen as-is with the switching brick / charge pump circuitry. Then we switch over to the old linear PS, bypassing the charge pump.
Hmm. A little better, but what's wrong still? The amp has the original prototype's speed, but still doesn't have the original prototype's organic sound. And by organic, what I mean is that the original prototype had this spooky pseudo tube bloom common with all good tubes amps. Just a light touch. Hard to explain. Not quite the same as tube, but very similar, a good facsimile, but to a smaller extent. A dampness. Wetness. And really, what I am describing is really the main essence of this amp. It's a solid state amp that has the Eddie Current house sound. Not bright, with a little tube bloom.
Craig looks over the prototype and current boards. Mostly the same parts with maybe different packaging for caps. Same carbon resistors, etc. But the most obvious difference. The new boards have two black rectangular blocks with two matched transistors buried inside. We've established that the power supplies do make a difference, but that the difference is minor. Craig thinks its those parts. Unfortunately, there was a really good reason those two black rectangular packages were used instead of four separate Toshiba transistors. Those individual transistors were no longer being made. EC only has enough to make 25 amps. Maybe a limited run. And even then, we don't know if it's those two crucial transistors which are responsible for the "organic" sound.
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Will there be a 230V option? Does it handle more sensitive headphones such as the TH900?
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Looking at the power brick. Says input "100-240V". Guess you are good.
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Part 5 of 5
So to end this story quickly. EC found a source for the transistors. With the power brick, charge pump circuit, and Toshiba transistors, the pre-production amp now sounds about 80% of the original prototype. The original prototype with the linear power supply had a bit more slam, sounded a bit more organic, dug in with little bit more authority. The differences are were significant. Even less or possibly non-existent if you are using a modest DAC.
Now don't quote me on this, but there is a possibility that Craig will make an external tube power supply for the amp at later time, with an appropriate connector which bypasses the internal charge pump. That would be pretty cool. But it is not confirmed yet. Hopefully at least we can get a connector for an external PS starting from the first production units.
The Red Top is still very much a solid-state sounding amp, but with some of that Eddie Current organic quality and not harsh in the treble. Being a solid-state amp, it does do certain things better than the EC tube amps, namely precision, delineation, focus, and blackness. However, don't expect BA or 4-45 microdynamics, microdetail, or staging. In fact, I think the Krell Klones and prototype Rags I've heard were more resolving. The Mjolnir may even be a teeny bit more resolving. But for those who enjoy the EC house sound or want to get a taste of it in any easier to handle package, the Red Top may just fit the bill.
I'll leave the last line to quote Craig: "Are there better amps? Fuck yeah. Are there worse amps? There are plenty of them. Pick an amp that goes well with your headphones and be done with it."
+ treble is not harsh or etched
+ organic quality with almost a tube-like bloom, not dry sounding
+ hits fairly hard with DACs of sufficient capability
+ precise, focused, delineated
+ good stage for SS amp; open sounding, good center image
+ extremely flexible in terms of AC input voltages
+ works with a lot of different kinds of headphones
- not as resolving as the best amps
- not able to reproduce quick small volume changes as the best amps
o still better than most of the stuff out there considering price
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Craig has invisible toobs?!? :-DD
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Your description reminds me quite a bit of my CKK. Would be interesting to compare.
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CKKK is more outwardly warm and actually kind of has a little bit of veil. ECRT is more bloomy but is clearer and faster. Not really close sound at all.
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Your descriptions seem to match how you describe my Krell.
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Your description seems to match how I hear my Susy Dynahi. facepalm
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There may be a loaner out for pyrates.
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I would be curious to try it if there is indeed a loaner.
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Of course I would want to try it too!
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I'm super curious as well. Sounds like everything i like while conceding aspects that are not top priority to me (resolution).
Was just talking earlier that we should get CT, ZD, Marv and Anax together and we'd have the entire EC lineup to play with.
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Extremely interesting ! popcorn
Can we have some specs for power output at various impedances ?
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Your descriptions seem to match how you describe my Krell.
Some similarities. Your Krell might be more resolving for very low level information. RT is more bloomy in lower mids, maybe darker, more bite, sharper attacks, more aggressive; but with tube like tonality.
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12V and what amperage on the power supply if we want to build our own linear PSU?
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I'd be interested in trying the Red Top as well.
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Marv, I assume you have not tried it with the car battery yet and most of these impressions are with the SMPS and Linear PSU?
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12V and what amperage on the power supply if we want to build our own linear PSU?
So, a reliable source let me know that ~2A should be sufficient.
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Marv, I assume you have not tried it with the car battery yet and most of these impressions are with the SMPS and Linear PSU?
Impressions are only with the <SMPS->Charge pump circuit> and <Linear PSU>. Linear PSU is a little better, but not hugely better.
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Two more questions:
1. How does it compare to the GSX MK2? I'm really looking for a TOTL solid state amp and after owning a balanced Dynahi, I was really disappointed in the GSX MK2.
2. Is there an estimated date on when the tube power supply might release (if ever)?
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It can just be powered from a wall wart, right?
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From the brick - sorry I mentioned wall wart. I'll post unboxing photos soon.
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I won't take anything less than a YT video set to EDM as you unbox
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I'd prefer it be dark and you speak in creepy whispers.
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Any updates to my questions?
Also, how does it do with IEMs? Curious as I'm using the Klone with both full size cans and the UERM at my desk.
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I might have missed it earlier, but it looks like the Red Top product page is up now:
http://www.eddiecurrent.com/Red_Top.html
Will be interested reading to see how it compares to the GS-1. The Schiit headamps haven't really been my cup of tea, but I liked the ZD and 2A3 quite a bit, so a SS with the EC house sound would be a winner for me. Too bad there's no early adopter pricing for this one, but I'd imagine Craig took a hit with the S7.
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It's headed up north for a tour. Ravi is getting it early next week.
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is there a loaner program for Red Top? If there is one, can someone add me to the list?
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not officially, but will let you know. it's being sent up to the Bay Area where a few people can try it out. I'll ask Craig if he doesn't mind sending it out.
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thanks Marv, I am in New York BTW
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Two more questions:
1. How does it compare to the GSX MK2? I'm really looking for a TOTL solid state amp and after owning a balanced Dynahi, I was really disappointed in the GSX MK2.
It would be interesting to line them up together. I suspect the GSX2 may extract more plankton by a small bit; but most of my impressions with RT have been with Loki or Wyrd/Modi, which aren't the most resolving DACs on the planet. The RT could probably be categorized as having a dark tonality - probably similar to your 2A3mk4 or 300B BAs. The GSX2 in comparison is lean sounding with a strong etch, and really not all the controlled, actually kinda of raw - without poise in the treble, especially at the higher gains. The RT has better precision and control of the driver - although I'm pretty sure it's output Z isn't super low. (I'll measure this before I send up to you.)
The GSX2 sounds flatter at medium and low gains. Yes, the gain setting changes the sound. Higher gains result in a more lively sound, but more difficult treble. Low gains have better treble poise, but overall sound is flat and dead.
I think it depends upon what kind of sound you want and what DAC and headphones you pair it to. The amps are on opposite ends on the spectrum in terms of tonality. I using unmodded HD800s from RT from Wyrd/Modi.
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The GSX2 sounds flatter at medium and low gains. Yes, the gain setting changes the sound. Higher gains result in a more lively sound, but more difficult treble. Low gains have better treble poise, but overall sound is flat and dead.
The notes on high vs. low gain exactly match my experience when I lived with the GS-1.
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How does this match up versus the Schiit Mjolnir?
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Mjolnir is slightly more resolving and does the microdynamics thing better. Mjolnir treble can be slightly twitchy or lacking that last bit lacking refinement - it really needs to be on at least several hours. Mjolnir does have more slam. RT is darker / more organic sounding and has more clarity.
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Mjolnir is slightly more resolving and does the microdynamics thing better. Mjolnir treble can be slightly twitchy or lacking that last bit lacking refinement - it really needs to be on at least several hours. Mjolnir does have more slam. RT is darker / more organic sounding and has more clarity.
I have always wondered if there is any downside to leaving an SS amp on all the time? Like could it be harmful to the amp itself or only to my electrical bill?
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It's fine to leave it on all the time, though it'll wear the parts out a bit more. A quality amp will use parts that last at least 5-10k+ hours, though, so it's a moot point for most people. You'll grow bored of the amp long before parts begin to fail.
I've left my GS-1 on for days, and know folks who never power down their B22s and KGSSHVs.
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how is the waiting time currently?
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Mjolnir is slightly more resolving and does the microdynamics thing better. Mjolnir treble can be slightly twitchy or lacking that last bit lacking refinement - it really needs to be on at least several hours. Mjolnir does have more slam. RT is darker / more organic sounding and has more clarity.
Marv, why does leaving it on improve matters, the Mojo I mean?
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LOL, no idea. Could be placebo. Most solid-state gear takes some time (hours or days) to stablize. And sometimes the stablized state isn't a good sounding one, i.e. some solid-state gear sounds better cold.
Tube gear is less hassle. 5-30 minutes are we are good.
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Inferior to Rag?
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No Rag yet. Rag was definitely more resolving from what I remember though.
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Was there ever enough interest for Craig to make a run of Red Tops?
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Was there ever enough interest for Craig to make a run of Red Tops?
Don't think so.
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Just found this thread. Is this project still alive?
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It might still be. I think Craig is waiting for a critical mass. I think some other pirates are trying to start a loaner program.
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I'm interested in this for my bedroom. That's where I keep my Black Diamond.
Hopefully a run will start?
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Hmm I've got my eye on this amp. Any thoughts on how it pairs with HD600?
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It's a good pairing with HD600s. The amp is being made. I think the first batch of 10 are already accounted for. The only question is the analog power supply - when it will come out and how much it will cost.
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Marv,
Any inkling on how this amp will compare to Valhalla 2 with HD600s?
You mentioned that Schiit created an Eddie Current for $349, so I'm wondering if you have any hypotheses at this point in time.
Cheers,
Stephen aka PC
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Marv,
Any inkling on how this amp will compare to Valhalla 2 with HD600s?
You mentioned that Schiit created an Eddie Current for $349, so I'm wondering if you have any hypotheses at this point in time.
Cheers,
Stephen aka PC
x2
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I haven't heard HD600 on V2 actually, only HD800. In any case, Apples vs. Oranges. RedTop is a SS amp with bipolar transistors. It has that fast crisp sound, but it's also on the organic side. Personally I could go either way. HD600 bass could use some tightening up from SS; but I also like well implemented tubes, especially if you throw in some really good 6922s.
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What might those really good 6922's be perchance? I'm interested in doing some tubing rolling on the Valhalla 2.
Thanks
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Well, personally I'm finding that vintage Amperex (Orange label PQ) 6922s work very, very well in Valhalla 2. Currently examining Amperex 7308s, both white label JAN and orange label PQs compared to those Amperex 6922s, but it's too early to tell yet, as I am still running in the white label tubes. They all sound very good, better than the stock JJs, but somewhat different from one another. I haven't decided on my favorite yet. You can see some of my tube rolling comments in the Valhala 2 review thread. I also have some Ediswan 6922s in my CJ LP70S power amp that I need to roll in, as well, and see how those perform.
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marv you heard the liquid carbon at canjam right?
I eventually want to get the r2r gunnir (product not confirmed!!)+ hd800/paradox slants, what do you think would be a better match the carbon or red top?
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Wait til you're ready to commit, see what's out at the time, compare options at that time. I find it a maddening experience to wait for gear that has no firmish release date.
Pick your transducers first (sounds like you have HD800 and slants), then the rest of it. The unconfirmed gungnir seems awesome, but who knows when it will hit? The carbon sounds like it will be a good fit for the slants, but I haven't read much about pairing with the HD800.
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The Red Top amp is now called the Black Widow. EC may offer a loaner amp so pirates can try it out. If there is some interest, let me know.
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The Red Top amp is now called the Black Widow. EC may offer a loaner amp so pirates can try it out. If there is some interest, let me know.
Yes please! Sign me up when that's available.
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Wait til you're ready to commit, see what's out at the time, compare options at that time. I find it a maddening experience to wait for gear that has no firmish release date.
Pick your transducers first (sounds like you have HD800 and slants), then the rest of it. The unconfirmed gungnir seems awesome, but who knows when it will hit? The carbon sounds like it will be a good fit for the slants, but I haven't read much about pairing with the HD800.
yeah I get you. but after canjam I didn't really see any dac that was a true upgrade to my intro (450 & imod) except the Yggdrasil, always wanted an r2r dac but pickings are slim before the yggdrasil I was contemplating the stockholm or dig for a progeny. but the yggdrasil is to big for my table and the 6 hour warm up means I won't be able to listen to it during the week. I don't mind a smaller chassis if I could just get an lps later. So I don't mind waiting and getting my headphones first, then amp, lastly dac. And maybe some cables to see LFFs eyes roll.
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I would like to try out the BW.
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...maybe some cables to see LFFs eyes roll.
You guys know me so well. My customers always wonder why I don't personally make and sell cables too.
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I'd be interested in the loaner program just let me know.
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Oh sweet! Please add me to the loaner program for the BW as well!
--Jeff
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Wow, almost forgot about this. Considering there's some comparison with the Liquid Carbon, I'd be interested in listening to the BW.
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I'm interested as well and I'd also love a comparison vs. the Carbon. Both seem to be targeting the same market, so maybe there's a lot of potential interest depending on your house sound preference.
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Black Widow ahoy
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/bkmvq-ELSY5-SHFYijYaQe1wi26MDzLFJNT6eKWG4cqPy7Sy-lbIT7ux0g97tyW8ijIQlw=s120)
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if you flip it upside down it goes back to being a red top ;)
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Clearly it has gravity operated switches to change the topology... :P
(that'd be pretty cool actually)
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if you flip it upside down it goes back to being a red top
That also takes the sting out of the treble. Upside down mod for the HD800 maybe?
Or maybe not. Sorry, I'll show myself out. :-[
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Long story how it became the Black Widow, but I am glad that it did. A bright red top would have been too much. More information on this toward the end of this week or beginning of next week. Some website updates pending.
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Can't wait for more news! I was wondering if the price is going to be updated along with the name :)p2
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Long story how it became the Black Widow, but I am glad that it did. A bright red top would have been too much. More information on this toward the end of this week or beginning of next week. Some website updates pending.
Timer just went off. You got that long story ready? ;) +Update?
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I am the one holding it up. Blame me. Basically want to make sure that a good external power supply is available when the Black Widow ships, which should be in a few weeks.
I got one board together in a chassis as v0.99 in preparation for final production and assembly. We also blew up another one testing various power supplies. We are very close to choosing a power supply implementation that won't break the bank. I'd rather kill myself than make customers pay something ridiculous. We are trying four-five very different circuits. I would say the power supply is transformative for the BW, but that could be a matter of personal sensitivities. BW is very much a BJT type amp, clear sounding, clean lines, fast, but with an atypical twist of an organic sound / smooth treble. In other words, it has the EC house sound.
The BW with a close to production external power supply will be at the May 2 meet in San Francisco. Zdfx will take it from there as loaner for peeps on CS.
Price of the BW with the universal power brick will be $799. We are very much trying to make sure the external PS will be less than half of that. No guarantees.
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Excellent! I want to be on the loaner program after ZD. :)p15
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can i get in on this?
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Hopefully it's not a silly Q with an answer in this thread but what's the Zout and gain of the BW? Love the new name and look btw (never though I could say this from EC or Moth Audio gear, I guess my eyes got used to it over the last 15 years lol ).
I know that wont drive my beloved staxes but that may pull me in back in orthos / electro world...
Arnaud
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Any more news on the tube power supply? I wouldn't mind investing a few extra dollars on a add on tube power supply if the sound is noticeably improved.
By the way I'm new here. What do I have to do to go from swabbie to pirate?
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If the power supply is ready for me to test, I'll be reviewing against the Ragnarok specifically for the HD800, Abyss, and Code-X. I am guessing I'll have the Yggdrasil by then as well.
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so the black widow is essentially still a work in progress
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If the power supply is ready for me to test, I'll be reviewing against the Ragnarok specifically for the HD800, Abyss, and Code-X. I am guessing I'll have the Yggdrasil by then as well.
Besides the abyss I'm uber jelly of your rig its the rig I dream about.
By the way did you ever sell your triad?
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so the black widow is essentially still a work in progress
The basic package with amp and universal power brick is done. Confirmed $799 per existing website. The external power supply is still being worked on. We are taking several different paths. The best sounding wins, provided it doesn't end up the size of the BA power supply.
Specs, all that, maybe next week. Maybe.
This is the first "budget" EC amp. We are learning a lot about how to make things more affordable and good at the same time.
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this thing will be going head to head against the cavalli carbon
wonder which amp would sound better in a shootout
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wonder if this thing will sound better then the cavalli carbon
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@ purrin:
I thot Craig was going to let this amp ship with the internal flyback transformer and wall wort, and the external ±24 Vdc PS to be a later upgrade option. However, it may well be best to let it show off its best potential right out of the chute, as you say, considering its current competition. I for one am an advocate for the external PS option being available from EC for the BW, rather than a DIY project in the near term.
Considering the price differential between PS options: dual regulated SS PS < battery packs < Hg rectifier tubes, you may want to consider offering multiple options, depending on buyer preference and pocketbook. I know that you lean towards a tube solution, which is the most expensive. I would rather see the multiple PS options available than compromises in design to make a particular configuration carrying discernable advantages more affordable to the masses. The amp with wall wort is already a 'budject' offering. The external PS upgrade at whatever cost is to bring the amp to its full potential for more upscale preformance in line with comparable products at a higher price point.
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I think Marv is prioritizing making a single power supply that is the best EC can make.
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@ purrin:
I thot Craig was going to let this amp ship with the internal flyback transformer and wall wort, and the external ±24 Vdc PS to be a later upgrade option. However, it may well be best to let it show off its best potential right out of the chute, as you say, considering its current competition. I for one am an advocate for the external PS option being available from EC for the BW, rather than a DIY project in the near term.
That's still the plan. Just want to iron out a few things before production to be sure both power brick and external PS will work.
Making the external PS a DIY project - that idea has been shitcanned. EC will provide one.
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The EC website seems to suggest that the bw is now available. Where cam i find out specs re. Inputs etc? (Number, balanced/se, etc)
Thanks guys ;)
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When can I send my $$$ and how much? Craig gets cranky when I just PayPal him money. Which is very interesting.
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Just hold on a bit longer. External power supply is done. We were going to get power and bandwidth measurements today, but we decided to call it a day.
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where you able to source enought transistors for the initial run?
Earlier you said some where already accounted for how many are still up for sale?
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E-mail Craig and copy me to express interest. We aren't taking deposits yet. We got enough for future runs, so no worries if you can't get into this one.
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@ purrin:
Which external power supply did you lock in on? Mercury vapor tubes? Dual regulated SS?
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@ purrin:
Which external power supply did you lock in on? Mercury vapor tubes? Dual regulated SS?
No tubes. We decided that going with a tube PS would have defeated the point of an EC SS amp. We wanted to meet a certain price point. Ended up with a shunt power supply. It easily sounded the best among the five we wired up in the past two weeks. We are sending a very proto PS along with a near production BW up to Zerodeefex tomorrow.
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Any idea how well it sounds out of a suitable linear regulated laboratory PSU?
Say, this puppy which costs <$400: http://www.tti-test.com/products-tti/psu/npl-series.htm (PL303)
or cheaper: http://www.tti-test.com/products-tti/psu/elr-series.htm (EL303R, <$300)
(Almost identical to Sorensen/Ametek/Elgar XEL30-3, which is 3x more expensive thanks to brand name.)
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Purrin have you guys settled on the Imputs? Will it have rca or just xlr
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Purrin have you guys settled on the Imputs? Will it have rca or just xlr
It's single-end. I'd be happy to make a balanced bridged version for you for $2000 though.
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(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/44056278.jpg)
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Stop saying things like that Marv. i budgeted for one EC amp this year.
Audiofrk: this is how new amps are born
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It's single-end. I'd be happy to make a balanced bridged version for you for $2000 though.
How much for the balanced bridged bi-amped differential super grounded diamond buffered mercury rectified version with ALPS pot?
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Alps pot? Why you so cheap cee tee?
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No tubes. We decided that going with a tube PS would have defeated the point of an EC SS amp. We wanted to meet a certain price point. Ended up with a shunt power supply. It easily sounded the best among the five we wired up in the past two weeks. We are sending a very proto PS along with a near production BW up to Zerodeefex tomorrow.
Maybe a little nitpicking, but aren't shunt regulators notorious for being inefficient (parallel current drain)? Wouldn't that pretty double your power usage, or does it not matter for the BW load?
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Maybe a little nitpicking, but aren't shunt regulators notorious for being inefficient (parallel current drain)? Wouldn't that pretty double your power usage, or does it not matter for the BW load?
Usually a minor consideration if a circuit can benefit from shunt supplies :-) I have a DAC that dumps some 50W of heat - a viable heat source if you live in Siberia.
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Measurement results using switcher brick (more current limited than the external supply):
Output Impedance: 0.1 ohms (I need to double check this. It's definitely way way less than 1.)
With HD600 as the test load, nominal 300ohms (we use headphones instead of resistors, don't try this at home):
- 1Hz to 300kHz -1db
- 1.3 Watts
With LCD2r2 as the load, 58ohms:
- 1Hz to 250kHz -1db
- 3.6 Watts
BW with external power supply shipped to Zero for the tour.
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Alps pot? Why you so cheap cee tee?
The only joke hidden in there. Hahaha. You win. :) I will test out this BW on my desktop from PWD/TransDAC/Yggy. Thanks to Marv and ZD.
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The only joke hidden in there. Hahaha. You win. :) I will test out this BW on my desktop from PWD/TransDAC/Yggy. Thanks to Marv and ZD.
cavalli just confirmed that the carbon will be at the SF meet, Jude is bringing it. Your mission if you chose to accept it is to steal it for a bit find Anax and borrow his HD800 and A/b the black window. :wheel:
(http://peterkirby.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/mission-impossible.gif)
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Was the BW name inspired by this photo?
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/21/15/27907C2A00000578-0-image-m-80_1429628368584.jpg)
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fuck you marv. I have to buy one of these things.
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Oh shit. I assumed you powered it up and listened to it?
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was delivered, I plugged in the PS + amp, went to a meeting, came back in an hour, put on my slants, and my jaw fucking dropped. This little box is ridiculous.
The control and convenience of SS but the liquidity of an actual good tube amp. This makes no fucking sense.
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Fuck i was really hoping Marv was full of shit oh well guess I got to buy some headphones asap
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Fuck i was really hoping Marv was full of shit oh well guess I got to buy some headphones asap
I walked into this assuming Marv was fucking with me.
I'll try it out with the Abyss this weekend and again in a couple of weeks. CEE TEE will get an extended listen soon as well.
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Arghhh, need some EC reps on the east coast!
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I walked into this assuming Marv was fucking with me.
I'll try it out with the Abyss this weekend and again in a couple of weeks. CEE TEE will get an extended listen soon as well.
Can you try them out with the hd600 I think I am going to buy them as a stop gap for the hd800
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Arghhh, need some EC reps on the east coast!
This. Also, +1 on the previous "steal the LC from Jude to compare" idea.
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Arghhh, need some EC reps on the east coast!
I'll see we can send this out to you for a tour. Too much on my mind to deal with stuff like that right now. Prepping for the meet.
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I don't have time tonight, but I'll try do so at some point soon. When I'm back from vacation in a couple of weeks, I'll pair it with the Yggdrasil and put it through it's paces with various headphone.
One thing that amazes me, no fucking grain. WTF, this makes no sense.
edit: we can steal the Carbon, but with the PS I suspect this will be an unfair comparison. This literally sounds nothing like solid state. We'll unplug the PS and compare it.
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I'll see we can send this out to you for a tour. Too much on my mind to deal with stuff like that right now. Prepping for the meet.
Sounds good. I'll PM you sometime later in a month or so. No rush.
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edit: we can steal the Carbon, but with the PS I suspect this will be an unfair comparison. This literally sounds nothing like solid state. We'll unplug the PS and compare it.
Alex is pretty confident in his switching power supply.
and the carbon don't sound like no $600 dac. Just saying this will be interesting.
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I think the carbon will struggle to compare to a $600 dac, but it certainly holds its own as an amp... ;)
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Nah man you don't know the carbon can put any DAC on check p;)
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It actually can play DSD directly :)p8
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And fix any hearing problems you may have. headbang
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I'm interested in any tour for this one.. in Hawaii though.
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(Sorry Marv if I'm wrong) So there's an order link on the website, does this mean it's for sale?
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give me a few hours to update some info. will be in the EC vendor section.
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Measurement results using switcher brick (more current limited than the external supply):
Output Impedance: 0.1 ohms (I need to double check this. It's definitely way way less than 1.)
With HD600 as the test load, nominal 300ohms (we use headphones instead of resistors, don't try this at home):
- 1Hz to 300kHz -1db
- 1.3 Watts
With LCD2r2 as the load, 58ohms:
- 1Hz to 250kHz -1db
- 3.6 Watts
BW with external power supply shipped to Zero for the tour.
*splutter* Oh shit. And this thing is $800+s? Uh oh. Just uh oh...
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Is the topology a secret?
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once my Yggy arrives by July, I'd either like to order a Black Widow or just jump into the Tour line. is there one??
:wheel:
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you better buy a unit. There's only 10 in the first batch and after that the pricing goes up. $1197 is ridiculous. I've spent that much just on portable amps in the last year...
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Is the topology a secret?
For tube amps, fine. This one... absolutely no way. You can buy one and try to trace the circuit.
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And meanwhile us Canucks are wondering if we can sneak one across the border somehow...
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Could we get some pics up? For those of us who were unable to make it to the meet. Curious what this beauty looks like
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there's a front facing photo on the Eddie Current web site.
I'm more interested in photos of the back side.
:spank:
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If we order one without the external power supply in the 2nd run, will we have an opportunity to add one in the future?
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If we order one without the external power supply in the 2nd run, will we have an opportunity to add one in the future?
No longer an option. Power supply comes with it. Don't want to deal with returns from people blowing up their amps.
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I'm more interested in photos of the back side.
:spank:
lets see, how many different ways can I take this out of context...
p;)
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No longer an option. Power supply comes with it. Don't want to deal with returns from people blowing up their amps.
Got it. I'll just wait till an official price announcement...
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Second run of 15-20 units will be $1248.
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That's significant price jump from the $799 introduction price. Does it include the external linear power supply? or the PSU will fit the case?
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The $1248 includes the external supply. The intro price was $1148 for the first 10 which included the external supply. It will not be sold with the switcher brick. See the other thread.
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If anyone wants to sell their Black Widow or plans on selling it in the foreseeable future can you PM.