CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => The Meeting Place => Topic started by: Chartwell85 on December 28, 2014, 06:35:01 AM
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Had a great time with you guys today! Thanks for the invite and all of the stellar feedback!
You guys totally blew us away with all of your SA-WEET gear!
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Impressions? Great sound, great beverages. (ZD, have to get that punch recipe.) Great food,and great company! I'm too fried (as in tired) for further audio acoustic analysis at this time.
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Had a great time with you guys today! Thanks for the invite and all of the stellar feedback!
You guys totally blew us away with all of your SA-WEET gear!
Great to meet you guys. Lots of laughs. Glad you made it home OK. Maybe see you around the ranch sometime.
Ron (Ringingears).
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zerodeefex:
yggy was ridiculous. it was ridiculous with the Klone, it was ridiculous with the 727 > SR-009, it was ridiculouiculous with the BA. I could literally pick out details of the mastering and recording process on tracks I've heard a thousand times that I've never heard before
Tari:
So is the Yggy better within the DAC world than the Rag is in the amp world? Because the Rag was not a keeper for me.
zerodeefex:
its a good pairing with both. what amp/amps are you going to run? I was really impressed with the Rag. for a no effort SS amp, it runs with the EC gear. I loved CEE TEEs BA, but I was crazy impressed with the pretty much effortless control and resolution of the Rag.
MuppetFace:
I plan to use the Yggy with my Abyss and Code-X.
zerodeefex:
haha, I don't think I've heard anything like the Yggy before. Marv's not just shilling for the sake of shilling. this thing is it.
MuppetFace:
*009
zerodeefex:
the deltas in resolution between the Abyss and HD800 are very very stark out of the Yggy/Rag combo. It's a little bonkers.
MuppetFace:
Also whaddya mean "damn Abyss?" It's the headphone that made me give my SR-009 away.
zerodeefex:
I'll jump into that thread later. For HD800, it's MKIV > Rag > Klone > balanced dynahi > SE dynahi > B22 for me in my setup. today we had KGSSHV and 727 to prove how much less detailed the 009 was than the HD800 (or even the damn Abyss in some cases)
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THANK YOU to everyone for attending and making this the most ridiculous meet I've attended (and it was at my house, no less!). I have a bunch of notes I jotted down in the wee hours of last night and some pics from the LH guys and CEE TEE.
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Thanks to Zerodeefex for hosting the meet! And thanks to Marv and CEE TEE for the tasty food!
Yggy is the Schiit! Too bad I couldn't hear it with the 727 and SR-009. I can only imagine the combo to be very satisfying.
I thought Rag worked well with Orthos, but may not be a good match with HD800. Maybe it was just me, but the mid sounded a bit shouty.
LCD-3F sounded a bit soft and mellow on my amp. Bass also not that heavy or visceral. Jeff's power amp didn't fare any better, either. Geek Pulse was able to tighten it, but it sounded a bit "off" to me, like there was some tizzy sound in the midrange. Grain?
Modded Abyss sounded a bit too polite IMO, but I kinda like that. Easier to listen to. Clamp and fit are still killer though. No way can I stand that. I always had to take off my glasses whenever I put it on.
Geek Pulse Xfi sounded good. Really uptight throughout the whole frequency. I guess I could nitpick its very slight tendency to become sibilant, and that it's lacking a bit of body compared to the R2R we had at the meet, but then I'm just being silly. For delta-sigma, it was not bad at all.
Thanks to Marv for pointing out the bass bloat in my chain. It was hard to hear at first, but after listening to the Code-X, and learning exactly how "tight bass" should sound like, I was able to identify it. IMO, it sounds like R2R is doing better than delta-sigma here. The difference is not even that subtle.
AKG K7XX was really surprising to hear. I never thought I'd see the day when I consider an AKG headphone "good".
SR-009 was my favorite at this meet. I think partially due to KGSSHV. 727 wasn't wowing me, but KGSSHV totally got me. Informal comparison against HE-6 on the power amp showed 009 to be brighter, and yet less fatiguing, and also much more effortless. Kinda weird considering I heard 009 with KGSSHV before at one meet and wasn't entirely wowed. Probably the DAC.
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Glad I'm not the only one who thinks LCD3's bass is a little limp-dick sounding.
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Yggdrasil is a game changer. Best match for me was the Yggdrasil into the Solderdude's Ember set on hi-gain and 120 ohm Z output (thanks Marv) with the HD-800. I had back up on this, and they were sober. No names. I respect privacy. Thanks ZD, and your understanding wife. Crazy good fun.
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TMRaven, yeah, I don't think it's just you.
I put the LCD-3F on, and I was like... "where did all of the impact go?", heck forget impact, even sub bass was hard to "feel".
Perhaps my amp was not up to par, but it pretty much sounded like that out of the Geek Pulse and Jeff's power amp as well.
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My quick and dirty impressions:
- Yggy > 727 > 009 - Best stat chain I've heard in person. Beat out the MSB stack > WES > 009 that was pretty awesome that I've heard before. Jazzfan will be picking the Yggdrasil up, I'm sure! I'd be satisfied with this combo forever if I was still a stat fanatic.
- If Bill-P doesn't want to get thrown overboard - he MUST make an HE-560 modding guide. Best HE-560 I've heard.
- I still like my Geek Out SE > Triad L3 Lion stack for HD800 use. CEE TEE does too but Marvey expects better. Still, everyone agreed that it stomps the Hugo.
- Yggy > everything else - Preview of my mega review: absofuckinglutely fantastic. Biggest improvement in every chain. Pick your transducer, pick up this DAC, and get a good enough amp until you can get your amp of choice.
- Pulse XFi SE - had enough headroom to drive even the bonkers planars. Bill REALLY liked this pairing with his modded HE-560. I didn't get a listen, but I wish I did!
- People - you guys are great! I had a great time :) .
- Shah restaurant - Delicious, but unfortunately my house still smells like indian/pakistani food. Tried to air it out and use some box fans to no avail.
- Beer - Thank you, CEE TEE, for leaving me a bottle of Pliny the Elder! I'm very excited to crack it open.
- My modded Abyss - I still love them
- Half modded HD800s (creatology only) - not as good as rug linered HD800s
- AKG K7XX - Why did I buy these when I have so many flagships on hand?
- CEE TEE's hair - super tame. I was disappointed
- Casey's beard - only a little scraggly. B-
- Elysian's new gf - nicer than his old one
- Gavin's dislike of Bach - Boo. No longer allowed in my house.
- Ringingear's cat - What a trooper! Glad he's doing okay.
- My dog - no longer allowed to fart up my house during meets. People were looking at me suspiciously whenever she was out
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Do you think the lyr2 is "good enough" for Yggy? It's either a Ragnorok or Yggy for me, as I cant afford both (my current dac is the W4S DAC 2 and hp are the TH900 and LCD-X)
On another note, I was at pizza port in OB the other day and couldn't get enough of Pliney the Elder!!! It might displace Bell's Two Hearted Ale as my favorite IPA
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Pretty sure Bill-P just used Jerg's guide as reference and did almost everything similarly.
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Pretty sure Bill-P just used Jerg's guide as reference and did almost everything similarly.
Bill would be best to answer this, but there should be a couple of small differences. Ex. Rug liner on both front and back of driver.
Finally got some time to sit down and write up some thoughts. Big thanks to Zerodeefex for arranging the meet and his wife for letting us use their home. Food and drink was amazing. Everybody there was extremely pleasant to talk to. Light Harmonic guys were hella chill. Another thanks to CEE TEE for the UERM and providing the Pliny. Best beer I've had.
I'll keep in mind to properly prepare a setup for the F5 for future meets. Overall feedback was very positive, and I'm very happy with it driving my Code-X and bookshelf speakers.
Now I'm trying to decide between upgrading my Vali to a Zana Deux or similar. The HD800 out of the Yggy and Balancing Act was my favorite setup there.
I realized this time that you could pull the Abyss headband further apart this time through. Fit and sound is much better. I was very impressed with it through the Ragnarok and the F5. The Geek Pulse unit the LH guys brought sounded great too. I'm really looking forward to mine when it comes.
The KGSS with the 007 and 009 both sounded fantastic. I would love to build one I free up some time and start looking into expanding into electrostatic headphones.
Still not a fan of Audeze headphones, from the fit to the sound. LCD-3s didn't sound good to me out of the F5 and Ragnarok.
The GO SE and Lisa portable amp was surprisingly good as well. I wasn't able to demo the Leckerton portable amp for the UERMs, but I'll be looking into the amp-only option when that is released.
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Ahh okay. I'm interested in the alterations in the mods now!
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Yeah, I deviated in some places. One thing is what Jeff mentioned: I put the shelf-liner in the back of the driver baffle instead of fuzzors. The effect is... interesting, to say the least.
The other thing is... I broke the seal of the ear pads, and that helped bring some more bass out, though it may cause bass to get a bit too full. In contrast, something like the Code-X does sound faster, more focused, but also less bassy.
Essentially, I wanted a bass-heavy HE-560. If stock HE-560 could be likened to a better HD600, then mine would be a better HD650.
Anyway, will post some photos on everything once I'm less lazy.
:)
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Chart- took the advise on the Chinese restaurant rules. It's Monday, so we're going with Cornish game hens! Told my wife the 3 rules. She laughed and then agreed with all of them. Nice research work. You guys may add my rule 4 without copyright issues. :)p13 if you forgot what it was.....well you were having a good time!
On the Yggdrasil-short term plan; use my current hybrid amp, sell some stuff and get the Yggdrasil as soon as is practical. It brought the sound of the amp up to another level.
My only regret of the meet was not "accidentally" packing the Ygg with my other stuff and discovering my mistake sometime next week. We are Pyrates not thieves. :wheel: Oh, and the fact my beard was too well trimmed.
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Meet pictures attached.
- Sunset shining upon the Yggy proto as it is transported to the Bay Area
- Klone+Pulse / Schiit small Uber stacks / PWD2 + Yggy DACs
- Another view of the Klone and Schiit small stacks, modded Abyss
- PWD2, Yggy, ECBA, Rag
- Tricked out Geek Pulse with Engima and HFM headphones
- Wadia CDP/DAC and random headphones and shit
- SF TransDAC, Ciunas USB-SDPIF, DIY chip based amp (this was good sounding)
- Shitload of headphones
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I like how the "shitload of headphones" pic is like 1/2 of my headphones and no one else's.
One last impression:
- Marv - Fucking phenomenal friend, life coach, and audio dorkery mentor. I am glad Captain Plankton made the trek to my house :)
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Yeah ZD, but that means the other 1/2 were phones people were actually USING! :)p13
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c'mon. all the audio gunk has been over played!
who got the most hammered and unable to tell the difference between lossless and MP3s??
:money:
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Which pads are those on the KSC75?
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c'mon. all the audio gunk has been over played!
who got the most hammered and unable to tell the difference between lossless and MP3s??
:money:
Dead men tell no tales! And neither do Pyrates. You'll have to make us walk the plank before we'll tell.
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Px200 pads on the ksc-75
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Better than the stock ones?
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More comfy. Slightly bassier results with those and the headband.
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Anyone tried the E11k? :)p8
Lots of good stuff, I bet no one remembered about it ::)
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No one cared about it ;).
Its mediocre. Not bad at about $40-50 for a portable amp, but between the odd shape and mediocre performance, I'd say save for the E12 (not the most dynamic but a decent portable amp at 100 or less).
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What about the modded XB950BT?, I tried them at the store (wired, bass boost off) and couldn't picture them sounding balanced at all, the bass was ludicrous.
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Oh, my pair? It's been modded a lot... so the bass is mostly subdued relative to everything else. Couldn't pull treble out, since there was not much to begin with.
And in fact, its natural frequency response really isn't all that bass-heavy. A bit lacking, even. Extension is also pretty poor. I think most of the extra bass is resonance... and I can confirm this because the inside of the headphone is completely hollow, without any dampening material whatsoever! The MDR-Z7 seems to be the same... following Sony's trend.
Here's a crude frequency response measurement for a stock XB950BT that I still have around:
(http://s11.postimg.org/wdeifjq03/image1.png)
Note: please IGNORE whatever is shown below 60Hz. I think it's an inherent weakness with the iPhone's microphone.
Here's my (modded) HE-560 for perspective (notice sub bass dropoff, whereas that shouldn't happen):
(http://s13.postimg.org/65f59jrrr/image2.png)
It sort of corresponds with what Marv has measured, except mine measures less 4K peak and less treble. I can subjectively say that that's the intended effect and also the result of my mods, but I think we need Marv's measurements for some definitive answers.
Note: take this with a grain of salt. iPhone's microphone is obviously less accurate than whatever Marv and the gang uses.
:)p2
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That's quite an improvement, it now looks like an Audeze :)p13... Weird, that first graph doesn't correspond to what I heard at all; bass impact off the wall and bass response in general was very upfront masking everything else, I even had my Thinksound on1 on hand which is quite bassy (http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/thinksoundOn1.pdf) in its own right but sounded thin in comparison.
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I think it's a classic example of why CSDs reveal more than frequency response graph. ;)
Here's another one of my modded headphone that I couldn't bring to the meet. Pity... it would have been interesting to compare it with the LCD-XC, because... here's the measured frequency response:
(http://s22.postimg.org/zckq9khv5/image1.png)
And here are the two LCD-XCs that Tyll measured:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCDXC.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCDXCSample2.pdf
Fun fact: Alex Rosson heard this particular modded headphone at the same time he was showing off the last LCD-XC prototype, and he proclaimed... "wow, this is not missing anything!"
:)p13
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I like Alex Rosson a lot and normally I don't like anyone.
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No, I like him a lot, too. Awesome guy!
Not to imply anything, of course, since I think the similarities in FR is purely coincidental more than anything else. He could not have possibly measured my headphone back then to get any idea of how it sounded like...
I think I will probably end up with an LCD-XC one of these days (for reasons beyond FR). The HE-560 is nice, but I think my heart was always with the XC ever since Alex let us toy around with the prototype. That just goes to show how nice he was.
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(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1671.0;attach=8410;image)
:)p13
Ali
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Here's another one of my modded headphone that I couldn't bring to the meet.
What headphone is this?
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Yeah, that happened to the switch after someone took a sip of scotch, and then breathed on it! :)p1 :)p1 Is that what started this whole "switch debate"? Errant scotch fumes?? p:8 BTW, the switch still worked just fine after the accident. :)p4
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(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1671.0;attach=8410;image)
:)p13
Ali
No switches were harmed in the making of this photo… popcorn
JJ
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What headphone is this?
Audio Technica ATH-ES10.
Just on a side note, even though I found it funny that Alex Rosson would say that the small headphone didn't miss anything, and then the LCD-XC coming out right after with a FR curve that's almost the same, I... pretty much agree with him. The ES10 was my benchmark for many gears that I would obtain later on, and... well, it still is a benchmark. It's neck to neck with my 560, and I think I still end up using both about 50/50... 560 at home, and then ES10 for everything else.
The fact that it doesn't even need an amp to sound good is a huge advantage over everything else for me... and I have yet to see anything else so versatile being introduced to the market.
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Yeah, it's very satisfying to have a portable pair that sounds good, I'm finding the same with my modded thinksound on1, I'm using it most of the time.
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Audio Technica ATH-ES10.
Just on a side note, even though I found it funny that Alex Rosson would say that the small headphone didn't miss anything, and then the LCD-XC coming out right after with a FR curve that's almost the same, I... pretty much agree with him. The ES10 was my benchmark for many gears that I would obtain later on, and... well, it still is a benchmark. It's neck to neck with my 560, and I think I still end up using both about 50/50... 560 at home, and then ES10 for everything else.
The fact that it doesn't even need an amp to sound good is a huge advantage over everything else for me... and I have yet to see anything else so versatile being introduced to the market.
How does it compare to your 560?
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No switches were harmed in the making of this photo… popcorn
JJ
That's no switch. That's a mini door-handle.
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How does it compare to your 560?
Well, both are heavily modded, and I intentionally made them sound similar to one another, so... aside from soundstage, extension on both ends (this is more a design limitation), and comfort/fit, both are about equal.
Actually, if folks are curious, I can put this headphone up on the loaner program.
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Haha yeah I was browsing the HF thread on ES10 and very quickly realised you were discussing the mods there. Thanks for replying anyway!