CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

Lobby => Music and Recordings => Topic started by: LFF on August 24, 2012, 05:04:32 PM

Title: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: LFF on August 24, 2012, 05:04:32 PM
 
The Sad Story of Sinatra’s Capitol Catalog
This is meant to be a guide for those people interested in the current crop of Sinatra's Capitol releases and their sound quality. I will slowly update this over time to make it as comprehensive as possible.


The rare Japanese CD’s:
The are nearly impossible to find today. They are easy to spot as the spine is all Japanese characters. Very little is known about these releases and their actual mastering. From the one copy I own, it sounds like a straight, flat transfer of the master tape.
Capitol 1st Issues
Capitol finally decided to re-issue the Sinatra Catalog. These CD re-issues were all mastered by Larry Walsh and were done from the original master tapes and some were even remixed from the original multi-track session tapes.
Awesome? Not quite.  Larry Walsh made the mistake of following the notes on the boxes for the LP cutting masters and the LP cutting masters had notes for added echo. As a result, Mr. Walsh added echo to recordings which didn’t need it.
The Second Capitol Issues
The second re-issues were done by Bob Norberg. AVOID THEM! Every bad thing that can be done to a historic recording was done to the Sinatra Catalog by Bob “no-noise” Norberg. You can recognize these by the “Entertainer of the Century” branding on the spine. AVOID THEM LIKE THE PLAGUE!
The British Box (Alan Dell)
The best of a bad lot. This is the sure shot way to get almost the complete Capitol Catalog in one swift move with decent sound quality to boot!
All of these albums are sourced from the original master tapes except for one (Songs For Swingin’ Lovers) which is direct copy of the Walsh master (complete with added echo!). Another thing to note is that “Come Dance With Me” is missing the first 2 seconds of the second track.
Overall this set is great. The packaging might not be impressive but it seems EMI actually tried to do a decent job with this release.
The DCC Releases
The DCC releases are done as perfect as can be. Up until 2009, you could find these releases for $25 each. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!
The MFSL LP Releases
MFSL released the Sinatra Box set in a silver colored box. This was meant to be a definitive re-release but fell fall short. Some of the recordings were pulled from the wrong tapes.
The MFSL CD Releases
The first MFSL Gold CD was Songs For Swingin’ Lovers. Unfortunately, this release was pulled from the wrong tapes and contains echo which should not be present on the recording. The EQ is also off.


Other Releases

The sad fact of it all…
The entire Frank Sinatra Capitol Records Catalog needs a re-working. They need to go back to the original session tapes and remix the stereo versions with NO echo and remaster and release the mono versions as well. Analogue Productions did an amazing job with some Nat "King" Cole SACD releases. They should do the same with Sinatra. It CAN be done but until someone (Chad Kassem....are you there?! You're our only hope!!!) takes the initiative, we'll all be left wishing we had something better.

THE DETAILS!!

1. Songs For Young Lovers (Reply #16)
Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: MuppetFace on August 24, 2012, 05:40:48 PM
What an awesome post. Well, a SAD post, but awesome work.

Thanks, LFF.
Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: FrenchChemist on August 25, 2012, 12:17:28 AM
Many thanks Luis!

I have the british box and to my untrained ears they indeed sound good, better than the MSFL LP.
How many DCC (Gold?) are there?
And if you think that Bob Norberg is bad, how would you rate Peter "No noise, Brickwalled, bass and treble boosted" Mew?! >:(
That guy butchered so many songs ( :'() he should be nominated to the wall of shame!
Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: LFF on August 25, 2012, 12:51:51 AM
It's only a barebones post.

I'll add more meat to the bones as I get more time.  :)p2
Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: Tyll Hertsens on August 25, 2012, 03:11:59 AM
I hate Frank Sinatra. 

I don't listen to the words of songs. I mostly listen to the sound.

Mostly I listen to all sorts of weird shit like Afghani rap, gypsy music; Argentina contemporary electronic tango.

But when I hear Sinatra, I HAVE to listen to the words.  They're not songs ... they're stories.

The guy's a slimy hood, but he compels you to follow down his road.

I can't think of any song smith who so vividly spins his yarn that it become something so different than a song.

Every tune's a tail, and you're along for the ride.

Fucking amazing shit.

The dirtbag has me hoodwinked.

I fail to escape.

Tell me a story, Frank.
Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: grev on August 25, 2012, 06:01:40 AM
Campaign against bad recordings!
Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: gurubhai on August 25, 2012, 06:53:40 AM
Waiting for more meat !
Come on Luis, even your HF posts are more substantial. :)p2
Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: DaveBSC on August 26, 2012, 04:01:25 PM
Very informative, though I'm not much of a Sinatra guy. It's amazing how often the guys at MFSL completely blow it. AP and Music Matters have a much better track record. My DCC Golds from the '90s generally sound pretty good, but they are usually beaten by AP SACDs or LPs. SHMs and XRCDs are a bit of a crap shoot.

I'm curious, what do you think is the definitive "A Love Supreme"?
Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: Deep Funk on August 26, 2012, 04:15:07 PM
 popcorn  :)p8
Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: n3rdling on August 26, 2012, 10:13:20 PM

But when I hear Sinatra, I HAVE to listen to the words.  They're not songs ... they're stories.


Johnny Cash has that affect on me  :)p6
Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: LFF on August 27, 2012, 12:33:12 AM
I'm curious, what do you think is the definitive "A Love Supreme"?

Aside from mine.... ;)

This one. (http://www.analogueproductions.com/index.cfm?do=detail&Title_ID=56007)
Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: DaveBSC on August 27, 2012, 03:24:03 AM
Cool, that's the one I've got  :)p6

How do you do your own masters?
Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: LFF on August 27, 2012, 08:51:32 PM
Cool, that's the one I've got  :)p6

How do you do your own masters?

I use my ears.

Most of the time all I do is surgically apply EQ using a Sontec 432.  :)

Sometimes, I have to do parallel processing techniques and other tricks of the trade followed by EQ and final restoration like fixing bad edits or dropouts. Sometimes I do nothing at all. The decision to not do anything is just as valid a mastering decision as going all out with compression, eq, dsp correction and restoration.

It's always on a song by song basis.
Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: dBel84 on August 28, 2012, 02:18:06 AM
Sometimes I do nothing at all. The decision to not do anything is just as valid a mastering decision as going all out with compression, eq, dsp correction and restoration.

this applies to most things in life ( the principle that is ) , I do have to add that LFF is a master at his craft. The LFF masters are something to hear and appreciate.

..dB
Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: DaveBSC on August 28, 2012, 03:04:35 AM
Cool, that's the one I've got  :)p6

How do you do your own masters?

I use my ears.

Most of the time all I do is surgically apply EQ using a Sontec 432.  :)

Sometimes, I have to do parallel processing techniques and other tricks of the trade followed by EQ and final restoration like fixing bad edits or dropouts. Sometimes I do nothing at all. The decision to not do anything is just as valid a mastering decision as going all out with compression, eq, dsp correction and restoration.

It's always on a song by song basis.

Are you using original tapes? Is any of your stuff commercially available, or is it just for your own use?
Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: LFF on August 28, 2012, 03:56:50 AM
Cool, that's the one I've got  :)p6

How do you do your own masters?

I use my ears.

Most of the time all I do is surgically apply EQ using a Sontec 432.  :)

Sometimes, I have to do parallel processing techniques and other tricks of the trade followed by EQ and final restoration like fixing bad edits or dropouts. Sometimes I do nothing at all. The decision to not do anything is just as valid a mastering decision as going all out with compression, eq, dsp correction and restoration.

It's always on a song by song basis.

Are you using original tapes? Is any of your stuff commercially available, or is it just for your own use?

Yes....yes....and yes.
Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: LFF on September 08, 2012, 03:17:49 PM
We'll start out with details, in order with his first Capitol record...
Songs for Young Lovers

(http://www.bourbonhours.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/frank-sinatra-54-songs-for-young-lovers-1.jpg)
This is in fact, Sinatra's 7th album but it was his very first Capitol album.  It was released as a 10" LP as a set of eight songs. One must keep in mind that this original eight song line up is how Sinatra conceived of the album and it is the best way to be heard. That said, shortly thereafter, with the introduction of the 12" LP, Capitol decided to bundle together his second album, "Swing Easy!" along with "Songs For Young Lovers".
The best way to hear this album is to find a pristine 12" LP with a gray label with prefix D on the stamper number. The D means it's an original west coast Los Angeles pressing and that it comes directly from the master tapes. The other option is to find the same LP with an N prefix. The N means it was made from a 1:1 dupe tape in New York. While it was pressed from a dupe tape, the sound quality is still superb.
Finding pristine vintage vinyl is quite the hard thing to do in 2012...nearly 2013...so we must look at what's easily available or relatively easy to find.
THE MFSL Vinyl LP
The MFSL vinyl LP comes DIRECTLY from the first generation master tape. How can you tell? There is a complete lack of echo! This is probably the best option currently available as the tone of the recording is fairly spot on and the vinyl noise, if the vinyl has been well kept, is hardly audible.
The British 21CD Set
The CD available on the British set is made from a dupe copy of the master tape. While it is not from the master, it still has good sound quality and there is no echo present. The tone is a bit sterile but it's nothing a little bit of EQ can't fix.  :)
The original Capitol release 2-for mastered by Larry Walsh
This two for set is not taken from the master tapes but rather from the master cutting tapes and has added echo.
The second Capitol release 2-for mastered by Bob "No-Noise" Norberg
This, like the original Capitol release, is drenched in echo. To make matters worse, it has too much no-noise applied. You're better off catching the plague than buying this release.



Title: Re: The Frank Sinatra Capitol Catalog...audiophile notes...
Post by: gurubhai on September 08, 2012, 04:56:29 PM
Can't thank you enough for doing this . :-*