CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Marvey on December 06, 2011, 06:13:08 AM
-
Sennheiser HD800 (Anax modded) CSD Waterfall Plots. A technical tour-de-force. Don't bother unless you have tubes to take the edge off. Highly rewarding, if you can set it up right. Amazingly still clean even after going down to a -50db sound floor! Evidence of its hyper-detail. If only Sennheiser could have toned down the treble 3db.
-
If only Sennheiser could have toned down the treble 3db.
Agree completely! I think a good 3 - 5 db would have been ideal depending on the roll-off. However, that's going off your excellent modded pairs which are a higher cut above the stock version IMHO.
-
Just so folks get an idea what happens at -50db for a typical TOTL headphone. Compare to Beyer T1:
Yikes!
-
If that is after mods, I'll probably be modding fairly quickly...that looks nice.
Like I can have my cake and eat it too. ;D
-
Mods' just simply shape the FR. The HD800 is naturally excellent. You may want to try without mods first.
-
Will do. THANKS for the graphs...
-
Most times I don't mind the sharpness, but I have a 6-10khz eq dip setting for the problem tracks. Sibilance @ 7-8 can be annoying.
-
Yep, some tracks are just...fine.
Others are Musicaanitsqasi (Music Out of Balance :P ).
Would like to do the Anaxilus foam mod.
Tip the balance a bit...and add tubes.
But the platform has the extension and the "connectedness" to get me what's there.
I just hope I don't have to also go with a warmer source too... :-X
-
I say go warm source -> warm amp -> warm tubes -> warm foam! Blitzkrieg that mother.
-
Whitney: I dare say you may actually like the HD800 that way. I'm thinking about building a warmer sounding DAC for the BA meet. Would be interesting if you could stand it...
I did get bassier (explosive), cleaner, and treble silkier sounding output tubes for the BA... some ancient Osram PX25s.
-
I bet there's a chance. I witnessed Ric (Blessingx) use a special tube combo to make the GS1000 go from "ear tweeter" to something I'd at least call a headphone. Still bright, but definitely better.
I do want more treble than the LCD-3 ideally. My Yamahas have more. CEE TEE can attest to that. ;-)
-
Whitney's in all-out assault mode! Taking no prisoners.
Marv, I'm not sure if you even run the headphones through your BA when testing, but I'm wondering if different tube influences would show up in measurements?
CEE, I feel you! On certain recordings, it's an amazing headphone. I tried foam, and it didn't help much -- although going back to the thread on HF, it looks like my foam didn't extend enough over the driver. Gonna try again this weekend.
-
Arrrr, why take prisoners when ya can send'm to the bottom 'a davey jone's locker!!! Arrrrr!!!
-
Marv, I'm not sure if you even run the headphones through your BA when testing, but I'm wondering if different tube influences would show up in measurements?
I definitely hear differences - still trying to determine measurable differences at the headphone. I have some ideas that I will try in the next several weeks when things get less busy for me.
-
i know the t1 is not looking good on the -50db thingy but i have to say that's coolest looking waterfall graph i saw so far. between 4.1k and 8.1k it looks like a hand with claws. kinda like a velociraptor hand to be exact scratching your ears out. your graphs are kinda like clouds when you use your imagination. i know...sorry, i don't mean to be off topic. some reason i just felt like mentioning that.
-
Rex brings up a very valid point. Good headphones don't make for very good waterfall plot art!
-
yup! that's my point! we should have creative waterfall plot art. if i knew how to make them myself i so be playing around all the time making the most unusual things,like i use to do in photo-shop or paint. i like the side waterfall plot as well i saw some some people use before. i forgot what headphone it was but it looked like a hand slamming on pair of piano keys. while everyone see the headphone technical potential in the waterfall plot, i see potential abstract pictures instead. i know, i'm weird...ohh well i guess.
-
It'd be impressive if you could tune your T50RP to show the Mona Lisa wearing an eye patch on a -40db floor plot. I have faith you can make this happen!
CEETEE, have you made any progress on your mission to domesticate the HD800 yet?
-
It'd be impressive if you could tune your T50RP to show the Mona Lisa wearing an eye patch on a -40db floor plot. I have faith you can make this happen!
i accept that challenge! but will have to wait for now cause right now i'm learning to write with my right hand(i'm left-handed if anyone doesn't know) and become completely ambidextrous so i can draw and write at the same time. i'm only partial ambidextrous with instruments and tools and stuff. so far my writing been improving a lot past couple days and notice how much more fluid my right hand is when playing the piano now as well.
also i have to figure out how waterfall graphs work and know how to use a mic. if i tried it now, i'd probably end up with the most retarded results cause, i for the life of me have no clue on how the whole measuring thingy and so forth works. of course i only be doing it to mess around. not looking for accurate results. if i owned a head dummy i would take it everywhere with me and mess with it so much making the most unusual and weird directional sounds ever and call it steve......or bob. i think bob is more suitable name for such a sophisticated head attire like himself. i think i'm gonna settle with name Bob. what you think?
-
It'd be impressive if you could tune your T50RP to show the Mona Lisa wearing an eye patch on a -40db floor plot. I have faith you can make this happen!
CEETEE, have you made any progress on your mission to domesticate the HD800 yet?
I tuned mine to show Van Gogh's paintings in 3D.
-
It'd be impressive if you could tune your T50RP to show the Mona Lisa wearing an eye patch on a -40db floor plot. I have faith you can make this happen!
CEETEE, have you made any progress on your mission to domesticate the HD800 yet?
I tuned mine to show Van Gogh's paintings in 3D.
very impressive! i'm totally jelly right now.
-
CEETEE, have you made any progress on your mission to domesticate the HD800 yet?
Actually VERY happy with HD 800 stock and out of Gilmore Lite!
Here's a transportable set-up of *gasp* $160 Audio-gd Sparrow B and iPad that is awesome (fits in small case + Pelican 1300):
-
^Ummm, where is my pic?? :(
-
sorry i gotten kind of hungry and ate it. my fault. i tried saving some left overs but was way too tempted. my bad.
-
Nice, CEE. You look like James Bond carrying all that gear around.
Also, not to be overly critical, but that Pelican case would not be complete without a handcuff from the handle to your wrist.
-
CEETEE, have you made any progress on your mission to domesticate the HD800 yet?
Actually VERY happy with HD 800 stock and out of Gilmore Lite!
You should cancel your S7 order and give me the spot!
-
It'd be impressive if you could tune your T50RP to show the Mona Lisa wearing an eye patch on a -40db floor plot. I have faith you can make this happen!
CEETEE, have you made any progress on your mission to domesticate the HD800 yet?
I tuned mine to show Van Gogh's paintings in 3D.
Well, if they weren't in 3D they wouldn't be Van Gogh's would they. ;)
-
Found out from Sankar that SBK is down the street from them. Explains that they use SBK cases...
The SBK is more expensive...that "mil-spec" premium.
The thing the SBK case has on the Pelican is that it is not tapered and so a tiny bit larger throughout.
Took a series of pics when the LCD-3 came back through...if someone needs one.
-
Sennheiser HD800 (Anax modded) Harmonic Distortion
Fairly high 3rd (D3) order until 500Hz. Everything under 1%, especially in the bass (< 0.4% from 25Hz up), which is very good.
-
Can we get a stock 800 measured?
-
From the master thread on HF:
HD800 no mods
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/9/95/958ed40c_HD800.txt.jpeg)
HD800 felt mods
Two layers of felt around the ring. One layer of felt on the plastic.
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/b/b3/b3b21f51_HD800feltringandplastic2ndtest.txt.jpeg)
HD800 Arnaud mods
Two layers felt around ring. One 2mm foam layer on plastic. Download all three HD800 plots into a picture viewer to see the minute differences among them.
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/0/01/0190750c_HD800feltringwithArnaudfoamonplastic.txt.jpeg)
This is with foam instead of felt on the driver ring.
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/b/b9/b9733ac3_HD800ArnaudFoam.txt.jpeg)
-
Anax mod v.2.1 is finished. I believe we've finally nailed it. More to come later. Tired. Bye.
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,488.msg9368.html#msg9368 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,488.msg9368.html#msg9368)
-
I've been pairing an Anax modded HD 800 with a Luxman P-1u for a bit and have really enjoyed the way it sounds.
-
Haven't had a chance to hear these myself but the HD800 are known to be very good for imaging and soundstage.
From what I understand, sound localisation is something to do with high-frequency sounds and it is quite clear that the HD800 has very amazingly fast and clean CSDs basically 1KHz and up.
Does anyone know which frequency range in particular is important for sound localisation in headphones? (if it can even be determined in this way...) Could it be due to the plateau in the frequency response graph from ~5-15KHz? Could it largely be due to the lightning speed in the CSDs from 10KHz and higher?
I'm basically wondering if it might be possible to identify other (less expensive) headphones that might be able to be classified as having a good soundstage and imaging because of any properties they might share with the HD800 in this regard.
For a start, perhaps the AKG K701 could be close? CSDs linked here on Changstar's front page look pretty good to me.
Though it really does not fare as well in the THD+noise measurements available on InnerFidelity compared to the HD800.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK701.pdf
The LCD-2 R2 measurements here show that their CSDs are very clean, but the impression that I get from what I have read is that they do not image particularly well? If it is true, could it be because the higher treble is relatively shelved down?
LCD2 R2 CSD: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,52.0.html
LCD2 R2 FR: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,51.0.html
-
Some few more un-modded HD-800 from the SD meet:
Well cared one
Frequency Response
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49.0;attach=4484;image)
CSD right
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49.0;attach=4496;image)
CSD left
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49.0;attach=4498;image)
Not-so-hot shape one (needed pads replacement badly at least)
Frequency Response
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49.0;attach=4506;image)
CSD right
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49.0;attach=4500;image)
CSD left
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49.0;attach=4508;image)
-
Haven't had a chance to hear these myself but the HD800 are known to be very good for imaging and soundstage.
From what I understand, sound localisation is something to do with high-frequency sounds and it is quite clear that the HD800 has very amazingly fast and clean CSDs basically 1KHz and up.
Does anyone know which frequency range in particular is important for sound localisation in headphones? (if it can even be determined in this way...) Could it be due to the plateau in the frequency response graph from ~5-15KHz? Could it largely be due to the lightning speed in the CSDs from 10KHz and higher?
I'm basically wondering if it might be possible to identify other (less expensive) headphones that might be able to be classified as having a good soundstage and imaging because of any properties they might share with the HD800 in this regard.
For a start, perhaps the AKG K701 could be close? CSDs linked here on Changstar's front page look pretty good to me.
Though it really does not fare as well in the THD+noise measurements available on InnerFidelity compared to the HD800.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf (http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf)
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK701.pdf (http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK701.pdf)
The LCD-2 R2 measurements here show that their CSDs are very clean, but the impression that I get from what I have read is that they do not image particularly well? If it is true, could it be because the higher treble is relatively shelved down?
LCD2 R2 CSD: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,52.0.html (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,52.0.html)
LCD2 R2 FR: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,51.0.html (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,51.0.html)
The answer is ReferenceSounds (LFF et al.) Code-X. I would describe it as a mix between LCD-2 and HD800.
/V
-
Speaking of pad replacements, where the heck can I order some? Senn is completely out in the US.
-
If you don't mind the smell, I believe mrscotchguy over at HF has a spare set...
-
Custom Cable appears to have them in stock for 57 GBP.
http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/official-sennheiser-hd800-replacement-earpads-ear-cushions.html (http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/official-sennheiser-hd800-replacement-earpads-ear-cushions.html)
-
HeadRoom has them in the USA and they are expensive. The replacements came in much thicker than my original pads also. Very interesting!
-
Holy moly! That's a 50% price increase over the Sennheiser price. It's actually cheaper for me to ship them from the UK with insurance from custom cable by a few bucks :)
Thanks for the options, guys. Was hoping for somewhere in the US that was around $70, but I'll go with custom cable. They treated me really well when I ordered an ie8i cable that never arrived once. They just shipped another one, no questions asked.
-
HeadRoom has them in the USA and they are expensive. The replacements came in much thicker than my original pads also. Very interesting!
Can you post pics of both new and old side by side?
-
Sorry, I can't. The originals got tossed. They were a flakey mess and I hardly even used them.