CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Marvey on December 06, 2011, 04:43:32 AM
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Koss ESP950 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
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purrin would mind posting some listening impressions of ESP950 on the T2? Cheers
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The ESP950 doesn't exactly scale well as you know. I didn't get that much more extra bass extension from the T2 compared to the stock amp. I would add that I listened to them for two days straight ~14 hours each day, and at highish volumes (92-95db) for a few hours at a time, and that I thoroughly enjoyed them.
I didn't think there was significantly more resolution from the stock amp, but it was certainly better controlled and had better blackground.
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These things are so underrated. For what I've seen it going for lately, I definitely think it's good bang-for-your-buck with the included amp.
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The ESP950 doesn't exactly scale well as you know. I didn't get that much more extra bass extension from the T2 compared to the stock amp. I would add that I listened to them for two days straight ~14 hours each day, and at highish volumes (92-95db) for a few hours at a time, and that I thoroughly enjoyed them.
I didn't think there was significantly more resolution from the stock amp, but it was certainly better controlled and had better blackground.
Thanks, yeah I thought I'd just ask in case the T2 had the "magic" :-\
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The ESP950 doesn't exactly scale well as you know. I didn't get that much more extra bass extension from the T2 compared to the stock amp. I would add that I listened to them for two days straight ~14 hours each day, and at highish volumes (92-95db) for a few hours at a time, and that I thoroughly enjoyed them.
I didn't think there was significantly more resolution from the stock amp, but it was certainly better controlled and had better blackground.
Thanks, yeah I thought I'd just ask in case the T2 had the "magic" :-\
For dynamics I still think they did best on Jim's KGSSHV but it was not a fully complete build at the time. The detail wasn't the best but the 950 can only do so much anyway at the rarified air we are discussing. I'll try them again on the next KGSSHV I run into just to make sure. I forgot to try Andy's last time, too busy w/ the T2 lol.
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Did you get a good seal? I'm surprised the bass rolls off so much on these.
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I wonder how much lower bass maters. It would be interesting to do an mp3 test like Purrin's hearing test but rolling off lower bass at different places.
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I wonder how much lower bass maters. It would be interesting to do an mp3 test like Purrin's hearing test but rolling off lower bass at different places.
I don't wonder at all. There's a ton of information under 100hz especially for a lot of my music. You're starting to sound like a candidate for an unmodded HD800 driven by a DACPort. :P
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:p Well I meant more like below 50hz, subwoofer territory
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Did you get a good seal? I'm surprised the bass rolls off so much on these.
Yes, I don't remember hearing that much roll off and that soon (more like starting under 50 Hz). My E/90 amp "died" only 3 days after I received the ESP950 but I remember very well behaved headphones with very smooth treble and the most neutral FR I had heard (along with LFF's Paradox). The bass was probably the least impressive, being what I would call "average" and not having as much impact as the LCD-3 or HD800. Not the most resolving headphones either but with clean, musical sound and no fatigue (and light!).
Too bad it apparently doesn't scale much but at less than $700 including amp I don't see much competition in that price range.
Probably very close to what RD expects from headphones and simply made me lusting for high-end Stax :'(
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One thing to note is that driving the ESP950 with a Stax bias settings isn't doing it any favors. We did a lot of experiments back in the day and these should really be treated as a separate system. +620-640V bias seems to be the sweet spot.
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Was about to buy these only to notice their price had ramped up pretty much everywhere to $1000 :&
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Was about to buy these only to notice their price had ramped up pretty much everywhere to $1000 :&
They've always been $1000 retail, you need to find a nice $650 deal somewhere if possible. That's typical street price.
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Not a too bad 700eur in Finland. I'm very tempted to purchase a set since I've very little stat experience.
I take it most would take these over the HE400? Also, would be really interesting to see harmonic distortion measurements of the 950.
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So its not worth the trouble to get the cable moded to run it from a stax amp ?
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Not much trouble if you have a soldering iron
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Not a too bad 700eur in Finland. I'm very tempted to purchase a set since I've very little stat experience.
I take it most would take these over the HE400? Also, would be really interesting to see harmonic distortion measurements of the 950.
No. These are vastly different from how the HE400s are voiced, not to mention the difference in price and setup requirements. A classic case of apples and oranges.
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I've owned these with it's stock amp and was not impressed. Did not sound right to me. Odd dynamics. The wiggly but fairly 'flat' FR may explain why they didn't work for me.
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I've checked these out two months or so ago - they're too dark/bassy. Similar to SE-5 CIEM I have, not the kind of sound I want, since I already have it in more portable form.
Somewhat lighter timbre (the 'stat thing), less hardhitting, probably due to more pronounced subbass roll or reduced bone conduction vs the silicone CIEM.
Pretty articulate, but I'd say there are better and cheaper headphones out there, unless you're a sucker for 'stat light timbre.
At least they're cleaner than SE-5, which have multiple small BA resonances.
The seal was very tricky - they have very large cups. I didn't have enough vertical regulation on the headband for comfort, but this is moddable. (Can add thick pads below the headband.)
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Better and cheaper like what? K701?
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Better and cheaper? The ESP950 with an amp is very competitively priced compared to what it competes against. Especially considering the discounted prices is regularly goes for on Amazon and other sites.
I've only heard the ESP950 at a meet. It was the station right next to mine and had the stock "amp". I had my Asgard and HD600 there. I was able to bounce back and forth between my Asgard + HD600 and the ESP950 + plastic amp. Every time I preferred the ESP950 over my HD600. No matter what the music. Considering the discounted price for the ESP950 with its "amp" is just a little bit more than a HD600 and an Asgard, I would consider the ESP950 to be a good deal. I can't think of much that is better and cheaper for my preferences. The ESP950 is really nice. Unfortunately it's an electrostat which makes it not very practical. I'd like to get one, but other more practical gear has a higher priority on my want list and limited funds.
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That's because you're overpaying for an amp. I'd say HE-500 with a reasonably priced amp. (There are a few appropriate ones ~$250.) HD600 indeed cannot compete.
HD650 is closer and also darkish in the same way, but still behind.
None of the above match the timbre, which is really specific to 'stats.
(Just so you know, SE-5 slam is only comparable to orthos and perhaps some specific electrostats.)
Also forgot to mention - the pair was somewhat worn in the pads. Might've been a factor, but what I heard matches the measured signature.
Remember also that I said dark, not veiled. They are quite precise.
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The amp has a lot to do w/ that.
The light, 'stat timbre' you mention I find more applicable to Stax and using the 950 on it's E90. Senn stats have much more body and presence. Hell, so do the older Stax tbh. People need to hear the 950 on the Electra. I could not beleive how much it scaled and transformed. Became incredibly open and spacious with great balance top to bottom w/ lots of detail.
$500 for an e-stat and amp w/ lifetime warranty that doesn't suck is a very good deal. No one else has that.
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Quick question, how do you find the SE5 for resolution and detail? I know they don't use acoustic filters so the bores are wide open. Do you perceive a benefit?
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I've read about them going for $500 to $700 but the lowest I have seen is about $950 on Amazon. Has anyone seen them recently (in the last year or so) in the first range, if so, where?
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They were around $600 on amazon until a few weeks ago. They'll come back down after the holidays quite likely.
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Ah yes. Either double the price or cut it in half for the holidays. Ho, ho, ho! Merry Capitalism )( :)p2
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Koss has 25% off sales frequently which they may only advertise in their newsletter if you buy something previously.
Why is the hd600 + asgard more practical than 950 + esp950?
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These could be had for a little over $300 used on Headfi and Ebay easily back in the day. But street price (new) was also never more than $650 back then.
Guess the secret is finally out on them.
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Quick question, how do you find the SE5 for resolution and detail? I know they don't use acoustic filters so the bores are wide open. Do you perceive a benefit?
SE-5 are thick bass and low mids, smooth, slightly lighter higher mids and reduced (slow rolled) treble of moderate thickness.
Timbre is warmish, but very quick except of bass, which is deliberately slower, giving it a slightly layered feel. Detailing is superb.
The many tiny resonances (4 to be exact: 1750, 2500, tiny 5500, 8000) are only (slightly) audible because the background is so black.
Once they're equalized, I know nothing with this kind of body to it, but out of the box, they're too dark and bass boosted.
Orthos (specifically, HE-5L I've heard) have similar kind of bass presence.
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Koss has 25% off sales frequently which they may only advertise in their newsletter if you buy something previously.
Why is the hd600 + asgard more practical than 950 + esp950?
Once you get an amp like the Asgard you can plug lots of different headphones in it and explore different headphones. With the 950 you can only use the amp with the ESP950. Can't explore other headphones with that amp.
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That is one way of looking at it. Another is that if you get an amp and then climb up and down the ladder of different dynamic headphones, you might not ever be as satisfied as you could have been with an electrostatic headphone to start. I recently got the 950, and it is an amazing headphone period, and a sick deal for the $680 I paid on amazon. I'm going to build a KGSSHV for it (DIY, will cost around $500 for the total build) and see if that makes it even better (as has been reported by many). With the KGSSHV I will also be able to use Stax, so if I wanted I could pick up some Stax and see if I like them better or differently than the Koss.
I think that electrostatics have a technical advantage that makes it difficult for dynamics to compete.
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My other favourite measurements site also has measured and listened to the ESP950.
http://en.goldenears.net/15022
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I heard the ESP-950 at the Koss booth at CES driven from my wristwatch iPod Nano. They sure sounded good and are a hell of a deal even at full retail. I'm normally not a 'stat guy but these are hard to resist adding to the collection.
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If you ever decide to design your own electrostatic amp (either for personal use or to sell commercially), the ESP950 is a no-brainer given the warranty policy.
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ESP-950 set-up with a Modi? $600 + $100 = ~$770 Wow.
I grabbed the Koss three weeks ago and this system would make many people happy.
If there are EC and DNA amps in the future for the Koss to aspire to, this becomes a serious path.
(Even beats the price of the Modi> Trends Class T 10 watt amp SE> HE6. $100 +$240 + $?)
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We need a blue stat amp, Donald! Pretty please?
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Actually, Donald...I LOVE the internal pics of the Point-to-Point I have seen of your Stratus. :-DD
I would LOVE to consider a DNA Electrostat amp that was a neutral color. I'll be checking out the Stratus at the meet, will ask you about color options (if there can possibly be any).
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Pink is neutral color.
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Pink is neutral color.
so is brown natural, then?
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Careful, this is how rumors get started! But it would be a great rumor, a DNA stat amp!
Let's leave out the pink part.
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Don't go there. I've asked Donald for a non-smurf amp many times. He called me a Communist and an evil-doer, I swear. ;) Maybe the blue color will go the way of Saab? :&
Though according to Alex Cavalli and others, blue goes well w/ the 009. :D
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If it's brown, flush it.
Wait- I'd buy brown over blue...and then I'd have to find an HE-90 to go with it.
I paid someone to say bad things about HE-90 to drive prices down. :&
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Maybe the blue color will go the way of Saab? :&
That sort of talk will send you to Davy Jones' locker walk the plank2
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If you ever decide to design your own electrostatic amp (either for personal use or to sell commercially), the ESP950 is a no-brainer given the warranty policy.
Yes, I've read FrankCooter's adventures with the ESP950 and their generous warranty.
For my next project I want to build an all-out tube phono stage for personal use, which has been on my wish list for several years.
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How do these compare to the more affordable Stax (SR-507 and below)?
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Different. but they would stand up well... especially to the 507 which is not exactly a fan favorite among STAX fans...
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Thanks. I'm pondering my first e-stat, and this looks like an outrageous deal.
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Don't do it... :-DD
I bought them a couple of months ago and now I'm unloading all of my dynamics now.
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I'm becoming more and more interested in these. They look near perfect except for that bass rollof. How does the bass extension compare to popular cans like HD650, HE-400?
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I've got a set of these on the way.. will be my first time hearing an e-stat. I'm quite excited. The HD800 gets most all my 'full sized headphone' listening time, but I hope this will prove to be a nice change-of-pace phone. Here's hoping the ESP950 doesn't force me to doing shameful, unsavory acts for money so I can fund a Stax rig (sooner rather than later).
Just how similar is the ESP950 to the HE-500? I had the latter for a good chunk of last year.. and while they were impressive, they ultimately left me feeling unfulfilled (and a little annoyed) due to that thick midrange, midbass centered bass, and treble that rolled off sooner than I would like (contributing to an uncomfortably intimate soundstage). I get the sense the ESP is lighter, faster, and airy.. but is it as midcentric as the HE-500?
lmswjm, your avatar is awesome: "Don't fuck with the Jesus' HD800."
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Less thick, more open and airy than HE500. With the right amp and tubes it becomes ridiculously so, more than HD800 even.
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Less thick, more open and airy than HE500. With the right amp and tubes it becomes ridiculously so, more than HD800 even.
Understandable, as HE500 has quite the measurably prominent lower end 'belly', which the Koss does not have. That on top of the relatively slow lower end decay with HE500 means the two sounds are probably night-and-day in terms of thickness.
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Less thick, more open and airy than HE500. With the right amp and tubes it becomes ridiculously so, more than HD800 even.
Thanks Anax.. did you end up modding yours, by chance? Thought I read something about slightly improving the damping, but I could be seeing things.
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Yeah, that was on my 'to do' list but I've been occupied w/ the HD800 mod and Leviathan build. That'll be next though. Spritzer listed the basics of it somewhere though. It basically involves removing layered sheets of damping that look like translucent mica till you get the right tune.
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These things scared the sh_t out of me the other night with some crazy good imaging. Sometimes they really impress.
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I've got a set of these on the way.. will be my first time hearing an e-stat. I'm quite excited. The HD800 gets most all my 'full sized headphone' listening time, but I hope this will prove to be a nice change-of-pace phone. Here's hoping the ESP950 doesn't force me to doing shameful, unsavory acts for money so I can fund a Stax rig (sooner rather than later).
Just how similar is the ESP950 to the HE-500? I had the latter for a good chunk of last year.. and while they were impressive, they ultimately left me feeling unfulfilled (and a little annoyed) due to that thick midrange, midbass centered bass, and treble that rolled off sooner than I would like (contributing to an uncomfortably intimate soundstage). I get the sense the ESP is lighter, faster, and airy.. but is it as midcentric as the HE-500?
lmswjm, your avatar is awesome: "Don't fuck with the Jesus' HD800."
The problem with either is that they need the right amp to come alive. The ESP950 had great synergy with the Electra and 6L6 tubes.
The HE500's one-note indistinct muddy bass goes away with with the right speaker / high-powered amp. Sufficiently amped, there's more air, clarity, width, and articulation with the HE-500.
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Thanks for the info, fellas. I'm looking forward to both mods.. will contact Spritzer for more info re: the ESP950.
Has anyone experimented with running the ESP off a speaker amp (with an Energizer box or converter like the WEE.. or something that's better than the WEE)? An Electra is cost prohibitive for me, atm.. so I guess I'm trying to see if there's a budget-friendly route to squeeze more out of the ESP. I get the sense the E90 is plenty capable (perhaps with a better power supply?).. but I wonder if a decent speaker amp+converter that comes in under $1K can offer a worthwhile improvement over the stock Koss amp?
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I thought you said the ESP950 didn't scale that well Purrin?
ESP950's been puzzling me lately. I gathered from most impressions that it was warmer and had harder hitting bass than most Stax headphones, except maybe for 007 and 009.
Now Mad Lust Envy on Head-Fi is saying that their bass doesn't hit as hard as the 407.
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It's more about synergy than scale...
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I think Purrin said that before hearing the ESP950 from the Electra. Seriously it's like a totally different headphone plugged into the Electra. Or maybe I just had one too many of CEETEE's fancy beer by that point.
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One thing to note is that driving the ESP950 with a Stax bias settings isn't doing it any favors. We did a lot of experiments back in the day and these should really be treated as a separate system. +620-640V bias seems to be the sweet spot.
It would be great fun to play around with bias settings for the 950, Jade and the Kingsound. Not mention damping, earpad options, etc.
The problem with either is that they need the right amp to come alive. The ESP950 had great synergy with the Electra and 6L6 tubes.
Perhaps the main reason I would consider a new stat amp would be to attempt for a jack of all trades, I'm going to try to look at the options offered by ec, cavalli and headamp to see how far they can be enticed to accommodate different bias options and supplemental adaptors. This would of course be much easier with a prolific knowledge of DIY, but there's the old HF standby of simply throwing money at the problem. And not dying of stupid assembly practices I'd be guaranteed tp start with.
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That eddie current amp looks expensive as shit. Is it really worth it to pair it with the ESP950 when you could get 007/009?
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Expensive? What do you think a LL, BHSE or T2 amp goes for (just in parts). The Electra expensive for stat world? Lol. Funny. I'd do the 950 over a 007/009 out of a 3232 any day. Then again, I like music that moves and sounds real, not flat boring sound suitable for corpses.
The Electra + 950 would be my stat rig till Senn or Fang does a new stat. Or Stax makes something new that sounds right w/ more than Patricia Barber.
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I thought the introductory price on the Electra was a steal. I hope to compare the 950 vs. the 009 on the Electra by the end of May. Didn't the Electra do wonders for the 009 as well?
BTW, I lifted the avatar from Marv. It was from photos of "Ultimate" portable systems I believe with battery powered amping courtesy of Red Wine Audio.
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Expensive? What do you think a LL, BHSE or T2 amp goes for (just in parts). The Electra expensive for stat world? Lol. Funny. I'd do the 950 over a 007/009 out of a 3232 any day. Then again, I like music that moves and sounds real, not flat boring sound suitable for corpses.
The Electra + 950 would be my stat rig till Senn or Fang does a new stat. Or Stax makes something new that sounds right w/ more than Patricia Barber.
Just seemed like such an expensive looking amp would be defeating the purpose of the 950, which is a very cheap electrostat relative to the rest of stat world. If 950 out of the Electra is better than 007/009 with whatever, then it sounds like a worthwhile investment eventually.
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I think they actually look great together myself. Whatever cost combinations make sense to people is the ultimate in subjectivity. People have all sorts of weird pocketbook calculus.
$1000 phone > $10000 amp > $5000 DAC
$1000 phone > $500 amp > $100 DAC
$2500 phone > $150 Dac/Amp
$250 phone > $50 portable using $400 cables
Whatever
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Different. but they would stand up well... especially to the 507 which is not exactly a fan favorite among STAX fans...
I don't get the x07 antipathy among staxheads, IMHO they're an improvement. But the 950s are worthy competitors in the Lambda league and may come out ahead depending on personal tastes.
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Had the ESP for about a week now. It's nice. I like it.. don't love it. I think the lack of extension at both ends is what's keeping me from going totally gaga for it. It's nice to (finally) hear what the 'stat' sound is all about.. I get the allure. That clean, effortless, airy presentation. It's laid back, but not sleepy or slow. That's really impressive. It reminds me of the RE262 in many ways. Thing is, the Fischer Audio FA-002w High Edition (w/ Karelian Birch cups) approximates the sound (and technicalities) surprisingly well. The HE has that same airy, fast, open sound (albeit from a dynamic driver).. it's brighter and the mids aren't quite as absorbing & effortless as the ESP's one-of-a-kind midrange.. but the HE offers better fq extension, is closed (for private listening).. and I don't need a "special" amp to drive it. The ESP certainly has a unique sound that would appeal to a wider audience than the 'picky' sound the HE possesses. The ESP's liquid midrange is quite unlike anything I've heard.. but that isn't enough for me to overlook the things it lacks.
The ESP feels like a really fun, 'niche' phone I'd get down with from time to time.. but I'm not sure it's something worth keeping around (and adding to the clutter of gear I already have) long term. Having the HD800 but a few feet away isn't doing it any favors either. The HD800 & ESP are pretty complimentary.. but really, the HD800 is more than capable of being my do-it-all phone and it offers more flexibility since I can more easily (and affordably) alter what it's paired with upstream. I came away very impressed with the ESP and certainly appreciate what it offers, but I don't think I'll be keeping it. It's a terrific value in that you get a whole lotta sound w/o needing to buy anything else.. but I place too high a value on the things it lacks for me to want to love it.
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Flysweep: It's pretty funny that you were the last person to post on this thread over a year ago. And now, you're getting another pair of ESP-950's.
Just to answer your question from the Valhalla 2 thread. Yes, I have the Mouser power supply. It's actually hooked up to my E90 amp right now, but I need to compare it with the stock power supply.
Let me see if I can do that tonight and let you know if I can hear a difference.
The thing is, you will hear a MUCH bigger difference if you use a Stax amp instead. I use mine on a Stax 323 amp and a prototype Vostok Sound electrostatic amp and the ESP-950's sound much better all around using the better amps.
Let me know if you need an ESP-950 to Stax 5pin adapter cable (https://fongaudio.com/store/default/headphones-16/headphones/over-ear-headphones/koss-esp-950-to-stax-5-pin-adapter-cable.html). I am selling them now and can give you a Pirate discount.
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LOL.. I know Darin! I was looking over this thread before I bought the 950's (again) a couple of weeks ago.. I would've bought them from you if I had noticed you were selling them (at a damn good price, too!) earlier. I'll always opt to support a fellow pirate, when possible. This is one of those phones that I can't seem to stay away from.. for whatever reason. The reason I bought it again was b/c I thought I maybe didn't give it enough time the first time I owned it. Plus, I'm kind of bored with full sized dynamics (aside from the HD800), atm.
Regarding the Stax adapter, yep.. I'll most likely be ordering one from you when I get ready to make the jump... which might be sooner than later. I've had my eye on the 252S instead of the 323. I'm not looking to drop megabucks on a Stax amp for the 950.. so the 252S or 323 seem to be my best options. Combing over the 950 thread at HF, I get the sense the 323 offers a noticeable, but incremental improvement over the 252S. Those who've heard both over there opted for the 323 b/c it offered slightly more power if someone wanted to move to a Stax phone.. not necessarily b/c it was leagues ahead of the 252S. It seems if I wanted to stick with the 950 and not move to a Stax phone (I don't have interest in Stax), the 252S is the most cost effective option. What do you think? I like the compact size of the 252S, too. If anyone else has thoughts on a reasonably priced Stax amp to pair with the 950, I'm all ears.
Darin, I'd appreciate your thoughts on how the 323 compares to the stock energizer (I think such a comparison will offer me an approximate idea of how the 252S might compare.. which would be really helpful) and look forward to hearing how the Mouser PS works with the E90.
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Briefly did a comparison with the stock E90 wall wart and the Mouser power supply.
I wasn't expecting to hear a difference, but I think the bass actually better and has more impact. Maybe it's a placebo effect, but I think the third party power supply sounds better.
It's not a huge difference. To me, the mids and highs sound the same. Might be worth the $30 though.
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Regarding the Stax adapter, yep.. I'll most likely be ordering one from you when I get ready to make the jump... which might be sooner than later. I've had my eye on the 252S instead of the 323. I'm not looking to drop megabucks on a Stax amp for the 950.. so the 252S or 323 seem to be my best options. Combing over the 950 thread at HF, I get the sense the 323 offers a noticeable, but incremental improvement over the 252S. Those who've heard both over there opted for the 323 b/c it offered slightly more power if someone wanted to move to a Stax phone.. not necessarily b/c it was leagues ahead of the 252S. It seems if I wanted to stick with the 950 and not move to a Stax phone (I don't have interest in Stax), the 252S is the most cost effective option. What do you think? I like the compact size of the 252S, too. If anyone else has thoughts on a reasonably priced Stax amp to pair with the 950, I'm all ears.
Darin, I'd appreciate your thoughts on how the 323 compares to the stock energizer (I think such a comparison will offer me an approximate idea of how the 252S might compare.. which would be really helpful) and look forward to hearing how the Mouser PS works with the E90.
I do have a friend who has the Stax 252 amp, but I have never tried the ESP-950's with it.
I can't try the 323 amp right now since I sold all my stax adapter cables. I have the parts. I just need to build more. Once I do, I can give you more feedback.
But from memory, the difference was no subtle throughout the range. More bass, more impact, better highs, less veiled, less dark, etc.
Maybe that's why I have been selling a lot of the Stax cables. (until Ebay screwed me and suspended my account because someone else used my name and address to create a different fraudulent account.)
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I use my 950's from a 252 at my desk at work all the time. Great little combo. I'd always pick it ahead of the E90. The compact size is a huge bonus. For the price you can't go wrong with it.
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Thanks, ship.. now.. where to get a (NA voltage-compatible) 252S at a good price?!
Headamp looks to be a good place..
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You found the right place! :)p6
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I use my 950's from a 252 at my desk at work all the time. Great little combo. I'd always pick it ahead of the E90. The compact size is a huge bonus. For the price you can't go wrong with it.
OK . I was turning around the Koss ESP950 for month and I've pulled the trigger an hour ago. Amazon.ca offers a good deal and a friend of mine in Canada will receive the Koss and send it to me in France.
First question : I'll need to purchase a 220V European PSU. Any 9V standard PSU will work or should I look for something special ?
Sooner or later ( sooner the better) I'll probably look for a Stax amp .. the question is SRM252 or SRM323 ? @Shipsupt : did you compare you 252 to more pricey stax amps ?
I'm really excited to put my hands of this headphone. :)p1
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OK . I was turning around the Koss ESP950 for month and I've pulled the trigger an hour ago. Amazon.ca offers a good deal and a friend of mine in Canada will receive the Koss and send it to me in France.
First question : I'll need to purchase a 220V European PSU. Any 9V standard PSU will work or should I look for something special ?
Sooner or later ( sooner the better) I'll probably look for a Stax amp .. the question is SRM252 or SRM323 ? @Shipsupt : did you compare you 252 to more pricey stax amps ?
I'm really excited to put my hands of this headphone. :)p1
Yes, anything that outputs 9V will work.
If you can get your hands on the SRM323A, I suspect that would be an upgrade. Not sure how the adapters work.
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Yes, anything that outputs 9V will work.
If you can get your hands on the SRM323A, I suspect that would be an upgrade. Not sure how the adapters work.
I've a universal 9v/0.5A. This would be OK?
What is interesting for me in Stax amps is the parallel outputs. Useful to put the headphone amp between the DAC and the speaker amp. Better sound is welcome too.
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I've found an old Stax SRM1/Mk2 with a SR404. :)p1 . it'll funny to compare the two stats rigs before sending the old amp to be serviced . I'll grab a cable to connect the ESP950 to the SRM1 too.
I will see which earspeaker will stay at home after some weeks of listening. headbang .. i'm more looking forward a complementary headphone for my HD800. Not a substitute.
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Sooner or later ( sooner the better) I'll probably look for a Stax amp .. the question is SRM252 or SRM323 ? @Shipsupt : did you compare you 252 to more pricey stax amps ?
252 is a good little performer and will kick the Koss amps butt. The step up in STAX amps will deliver results but the price isn't necessarily going to tell you which one is better.
Make sure you get the polarity right on a universal DC adapter.
The "loop out" on the STAX amps is nice feature, especially if you've got few amps you like to have set up.
Good find on the SRM1. That's a good place to start without breaking the bank. It will be interesting to see what you think of the 404 vs. ESP950, two completely different beast for sure. Enjoy and keep us posted.
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Enjoy and keep us posted.
For sure, i will give impressions. I tried a SR303/SRM323 combo last year and was positively impressed and i really like the 'out of nowhere" refined sound . I prefered my HD800 though.
I'm still waiting Anaxilus impression about the SR307 vs ESP950 comparison.....
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For sure, i will give impressions. I tried a SR303/SRM323 combo last year and was positively impressed and i really like the 'out of nowhere" refined sound . I prefered my HD800 though.
I'm still waiting Anaxilus impression about the SR307 vs ESP950 comparison.....
Sorry about that long Thanksgiving week and busy schedule. Here you go:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php?topic=1819.msg53670#msg53670
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:)p1 Thks ;) . Make me feel I did the right choice when I pruchased this old SRM1/mk2 for the Koss. I'm very excited to compare the old 404 and the Koss , both plugged to the SRM1 :)
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About the SRD-7 (it needs to be the MK II version) with the ESP-950. It gives a tad more engaging and lifelike sound ( w less "plastic" in it) to my ears than the E-90 unit, and/but - importantly - only if you put a good power amp before it. The box is probably transparent enough to reveal any amp weaknesses. (I am using a very good-sounding amp with it, as far as I can judge, an AKSA LF55*). That said, I find E-90 serviceable enough. (prolly a tad underrated due to its modest appearance, plastic case, low weight etc). The difference may be compared to coming from SS to tube amps, to a certain degree.
Notes.
"Routinely" with these SRD units (I used to have a comparable thing driving my old Sigmas, say) I shorten the protective non-linear resistors in the signal path, since I do not tend to abuse the units anyway. They are easy to find, look like ceramic capacitors.
A cheap solution is to buy an SRD-7 MK I and add the few components needed to give a "pro" bias voltage. If one knows the difference between a diode and a resistor it should be doable. One could even probably boost the voltage a little, if for Koss use solely.
I can not listen to the ESP-950 without taking down the level around 1 kHz somewhat through EQ. But I may be oversensitive to the (often encountered) bump in this area in headphones. I also have Nova Signatures and they have a much bigger bump, almost unbearable & uncorrectable, so I tend to do not use them, despite otherwise they may be a better performer, sounding a tad more hypnotizing. In any case a little EQ at this point cleans up the sound considerably, overall.
I could not use the U.S. 115V supply unit my E90 came with, so I put 3 diodes in series with a an old 12V adapter that originally belonged to an external HD (or was it a CD burner), I have the house full of them. This gives 9V and works well. Should be a a tad more powerful in principle, but not that it matter much in this connection, I think..
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Finally, the Koss Combo is at home. :)p1.
Is it necessery to give it some burn in ? From the first minut of listening with the E90, It's good but I'm not so impressed. its seems the sound lack balls, bite, precision. It's a bit too soft for my tastes. Fortunately the FR is good so I think I hear what everybody is complaining about with the E90?
Very very early impressions . Sorry If I'm wrong.
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Finally, the Koss Combo is at home. :)p1.
Is it necessery to give it some burn in ? From the first minut of listening with the E90, It's good but I'm not so impressed. its seems the sound lack balls, bite, precision. It's a bit too soft for my tastes. Fortunately the FR is good so I think I hear what everybody is complaining about with the E90?
Very very early impressions . Sorry If I'm wrong.
Nope, that's right. E90 is just a functional craptastic amp. OJ tried rigging a new PS for it and still gimped by the circuit.
No burn in needed for these, just time to charge up stators evenly.
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Okay. THks Anax.
A bit more listening. Especially against the SR404 and the STAX/SRM1-MK2 wins hands down despite its Strange FR . The Stax combo offer more impact and slam , more dynamics . I'm listening to Get lucky Right now and With the Koss , the result is bit bland and too relax . All symptoms of a weak amping indeed.
I 'll send the ol' good Stax amp for a full service to Sören from Inexxon.de. he will make me the Koss to Stax cable. popcorn
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FWIW, when I heard the ESP-950 some time ago out of the E90 and the T2, it still sounded to me kind of how you describe it Sorrodje. The T2 offered some improvement, but still a bit rolled at the corners for my tastes. The Lambda Stax cans seemed to me a bit more lively. I liked more the Lambdas (207, 507, 404 ... and can't remember which other bread toasts).
The ESP-950 cans are quite large and it maybe possible to fail getting a good seal depending on head shape as well. Sometimes I don't get a good seal with some used Lambdas either, but sometimes things work out. Rarely have I had a problem like that with the Omegas tho.
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950 is far better on the Electra or KGSSHV than the T2.
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Nope, that's right. E90 is just a functional craptastic amp. OJ tried rigging a new PS for it and still gimped by the circuit.
No burn in needed for these, just time to charge up stators evenly.
The stators are charged instantaneously with the varying signal, they're just conductors. They'd be a blurry mess otherwise. The diaphragm is what arguably needs some time to charge as it has a very high resistance.
Agree about the Lambda/950 earpads sucking. I bet filling the 950 pads with some kind of gel would help make them seal a lot better but you'd have to put the right amount.
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Yup, diaphragms. Was thinking about how much I like bouncing off the stators.
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but still a bit rolled at the corners for my tastes.
Yeah. that's my feeling too. but that's what I looked for with this Koss. Something softer than my HD800. I would just want the cursor would be placed a bit less on the soft side. In current State with the E90 it's too boring for my tastes. I'll see if the SRM1/Mk2 will improve it enough.
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my SRM1/mkII is back with a Koss to Stax extension cable custom built by the man who did the service for the amp.
(http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/1290084/)
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/6/62/900x900px-LL-624291c1_koss3.jpeg)
Who gave so much coke to my Koss ? it seems it woke up from the dead :)p7
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Who gave so much coke to my Koss ? it seems it woke up from the dead
Interesting. Mind elaborating?
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Interesting. Mind elaborating?
A bit soon to be really trustable and precise in my description. I think the koss has a kind of soft sound with an inoxxuous attack . As said before, it rounds the corner. with the E90 , those characteristics lead to a somewhat imprecise, blurry and boring sound (tisane) . With the SRM1/MkiI , the sound is still a bit soft but in a better way. Notes have more impact in the whole spectrum, everything is more lively (coke). The old granny woke up and dance. The speed is more noticeable especially in the bass area and treble offers more excitement. Everything seem more focused , precise, delineated. The HD800 has definitely a more merciless and precise attack/impact , deeper bass , a better way to present the music and its environement ( imaging, ambiance) as a whole and stays more involving to my ears but the with the Stax amp the ESP-950 gave it a round for its money due mostly to this slight warmth that adds a special soul once you get it.
My 2 cents from one or two hours of listening . Needs more time and serious A/B comparison to be really accurate but I feel the change is more than subtle. it's like the difference between an underpowered and well amplified HD600 in my mind. Not Night and day but more something like "Hey not bad" to "wow, this sing competes Higher than I would have thought" . Maybe I'm wrong and it's a only the new toy effect.
Not compared to the Stax SR404 yet. My HD800 will travel to Colorware during next month so I'll have enough time to play with the two stats.
Currently listening to that :
(http://theamericanradioshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/1278439785_lee-ritenour-6-string-theory-2010.jpg)
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Great album, Sorro.. one of my faves.
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OK . it's time for the final impressions. As you've alreadey seen, my Koss is for sale so you know the end of the story.
Currently, my HD800 is at Colorware for a full pain job. So these last ten days, I listened music with the SR404 and the Koss . I'm amping them with the SRM1-Mk2 and I have the Meier DACCORD as dac. My Octave is almost sold.
So i could compare the Stax and the Koss. Despite the improvement brought by the Stax, I still find the Koss lacks attack and bite. It was obvious against the HD800 but it's still obvious the Stax. The SR404 seems (to my ears) to have more precise, clean and fast attack . K sounds like K ( hard attack fast decay) but with the Koss K tend to become T. Attack is softened. Corners are rounded as it was said before. I struggled with that, my music sound like it was photoshoped to sound more vintage . I don"t know how to describe it better in english sorry. For some blues, classic rock, old classic Jazz , bebop and such music , it's really good but not for what I listen too mostly.
Still in my opinion, despite its abilities to be clean , fast with a great reproduction of the Music and macro details, the stax falls short to reproduce micro dynamics. Each time I switch from the SR404 to the Koss , I felt an improvement in soundstage , ambiance . Spaces between the notes are better filled. Each time I switched from the Koss to the SR404, I heard the lack of resolution, the forwardness and the etch. The Stax SR404's music reproduction is bit "poor"(relatively speaking) in my opinion ;
Thanks to the better attack, the SR404 offers a more defined and more readable sound in every range . I think the Stax offers better extension too. More clear and crisp bass , more air. For mids , especially low and high mids , I think the Koss is more balanced and meatier. The Stax is too lean in low mids. Harder attack + high mids emphasis + treble emphasis + lack of low mids/ high bass cause the shoutiness I noticed at the first time and IMO cause the etch. But after hours and days of listening (and brain burn in) , I haven't too much trouble with this etch ,neither with the Midrange shout.
Finally, for my music enjoyment the SR404 won and stayed on my head while the Koss went to its box. It's not to say that the Stax is better. In my mind the two stats are equal but the Stax match better my sound preference while the Koss is too soft and centered around its mids. It reminds me a bit my Shure SE535 . Good, refined, technically capable but it does not suck me into music.
The Stax amp definitely helps the ESP-950 but IMO does not transform it the E90 + ESP950 is really enjoyable and give a good idea of how the headphone sounds. I presum that People who don't like the Koss from the E90 won't like it much more from a Stax amp . ESP 950 lovers will love it more from a better amp. That's my own experience.
To be fully Honest, I struggled a bit with the seal of the Koss and i'm not so convinced I managed to find the best one. I tried many positions though and they didn"t change so much the overall result.
Conclusion ; Koss = walk the plank
Sorry for all mistakes, I wrote this quickly.
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Good way to describe it. A warmer, softer yet meatier vintage sound.
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That's pretty much how I heard the 307 vs ESP950
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Dunno for other Lambdas but the SR404 /SRM1 mk2 is one of my best purchase. I hope I'll not be forced to sell it to finance my totaldac A1.
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Claritas was kind enough to loan me his ESP950s and I've been enjoying them quite a bit. They make a nice contrast to my Stax Lambdas with their more forward and aggressive sound as compared to the Lambdas bore laid back and somewhat 'ethereal' presentation. I'm probably going to do a write up comparing the ESP950 to the SRS-2170 (SR-207 & SRM252S)
As a side note, I went to Stax USA to check on the proper punctuation for the 2170 and noticed that they're having some kind (https://www.staxusa.com/earspeaker/) of sale (https://www.staxusa.com/System/).
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Claritas was kind enough to loan me his ESP950s and I've been enjoying them quite a bit. They make a nice contrast to my Stax Lambdas with their more forward and aggressive sound as compared to the Lambdas bore laid back and somewhat 'ethereal' presentation. I'm probably going to do a write up comparing the ESP950 to the SRS-2170 (SR-207 & SRM252S)
As a side note, I went to Stax USA to check on the proper punctuation for the 2170 and notices that they're having some kind (https://www.staxusa.com/earspeaker/) of sale (https://www.staxusa.com/System/).
Glad you like them. Had mine forever.
Looks like around 15% off at Stax.
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hello,
but not on everything (entry level)...sigh.
make that anything (entry level).