CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Head Amps, DACs, Sources, Portable Equipment Discussion => Topic started by: Marvey on October 09, 2013, 05:03:05 PM
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(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1160.0;attach=4070;image)
One thing I've noted at meets or shows is how the Schiit tables are always crowded, always full, from the time the meets begin to when they end. It's a testimony to their no BS approach: good sound at affordable prices. This makes me think of the recent whispers I've been hearing at the "big boy" audio shows (speaker setups): the hope that personal audio and headphones will be a doorway toward the high-end. Let's face it, the high-end as it is will eventually die out with the old guys unless they get new customers. Being in the mid 40s, I'm not exactly a spring chicken, but the folks I see at the audiophile shows must be at least on average 15-20 years older than me.
What these audiophile vendors don't understand is that mere mortals (young'uns), especially in this current age of global hyper-competitiveness where well paying entry level jobs are scarce, cannot afford something like an MSB Platinum DAC IV. This is where Schiit steps in with their understanding of the market, offering of high value products with a direct sales approach. This is why their tables are always full. Because people can actually afford to buy their Schiit. And their stuff keeps getting better and better.
We've seen landmark price-to-performance products such as the Gungir and Mjolnir, the new and improved Asgard 2 and Bifrost with the upgraded modules, etc. We've heard about the Ragnarok announcement ahead of RMAF; and quiet whispers of its awesomeness.
So what is the Vali? It is their new TOTL hybrid amp which was kept secret for past nine months of development? It may as well be. It is in fact a tiny little hybrid, running miniature triodes tube for the gain stage and a solid-state output stage (I presume similar to the Magni's). How does it sound?
Fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. Holy Schiit fantastic. This is tubes done right. We are talking about expansive soundstage, tube clarity, tube microdynamics, tube microdetail, tube dynamics and slam. (Yes, all the things which folks who haven't heard good tube amps don't think tubes sound like.) The first time I heard this, I almost pee'd in my pants. An amp this cheap shouldn't sound this good.
I would seriously buy an Abyss headphone, hook it up to the Vali, and call it a day. That's how good it is. Of all the gear I've heard in the past year, this is by far the most impressive. No words can do it justice. This is tubes done right at an impossible price.
Time for all you "objectivists" to throw away your Objective2 amps and get the Vali instead, or at least try it. Oh wait, forget it, don't bother. The Vali is too subjectively good for you narrow minded bucks.
Now taking questions, comparison requests, etc. Lurkers, and I know you are out there, feel free to make your first post on changstar here!
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Any impressions on how this works with UERMs or other IEMs? I've been looking for a quality, low noise tube amp to run with IEMs for late night listening. SS isn't quite doing it for me.
I've been very impressed with Schiit after buying a gen1 Bifrost. I'm not as familiar with their amps, but from a DAC standpoint, they're at a DIY price/performance level which is remarkable and I'm sure the quality extends across their entire lineup.
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Excellent, this is just the news I was waiting for. As long as it fits under the Lyr pricerange I'm satisfied.
As for the lyr, I'm assuming that would be the closest comparison?
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I'll test it out with sensitive cans. Will get to back you on the noise floor. I'm not sure on the price. $99-$149? Nothing near the Lyr. The tube is extremely microphonic though. You need to let the amp settle for a few minutes if you plug or unplug anything. You will hear thing ringing sound which eventually dies out over time. With more sensitive cans, you can hear the ringing more easily.
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So I wasn't dreaming afterall
Availability? First run for pirates?
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Hi, long time lurker, first time poster!
What's the size like? Does the chassis match up for stacking with one of the existing DACs?
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I love it. Schitt strikes again. I would imagine this + Paradox would make many a headphone rig at many times the price Schitt some bricks.
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From the picture and the name choice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A1li_%28son_of_Loki%29) i can guess that it's the same size as Loki/Magni/Modi, with same steel chassis? Purrin will need to confirm it though.
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:-00
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Awesome! headbang
Do you think you'll still have it for Nov.2? I'd love to audition it.
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Can it run Crysis on Ultra?
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Can it run Crysis on Ultra?
It might (http://www.boutiquegeartalk.com/images/smilies/nervous.gif)
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Can it run Crysis on Ultra?
It might (http://www.boutiquegeartalk.com/images/smilies/nervous.gif)
headbang headbang headbang headbang headbang
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Same size as Magni. The unit I have is in a Magni chassis with Magni lettering crossed out with a marker.
- The noise floor is too high with UERM. For some reason, UERM with Vali is not a good match sonically.
- Need to wait about 60 seconds for the ringing to die down after plugging in the Grado HF-2. The noise floor is audible. With pop or rock music playing, the noise is OK for me. Sounds good with the HF-2. (and I mostly hate Grados.)
- With Paradox, HE-400, HE-500, HD800, it's GREAT.
- The amp scales with DACs; e.g., differences between Gungnir, PWD2, AGD M7, can easily be heard. This includes tonal balance, resolution, etc.
- It doesn't have quite the low-end grunt / sub-bass power / low-end extension as the Mjolnir or other big boy amps, but this is expected for its footprint.
- This is by far, considering it's expected price, the most impressive piece of Schiit I've heard yet.
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I'm going to be picking one up to pair with my Paradox/Uber Bifrost in my beside rig. Definitely can't wait!
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Same size as Magni. The unit I have is in a Magni chassis with Magni lettering crossed out with a marker.
- The noise floor is too high with UERM. For some reason, UERM with Vali is not a good match sonically.
- Need to wait about 60 seconds for the ringing to die down after plugging in the Grado HF-2. The noise floor is audible. With pop or rock music playing, the noise is OK for me. Sounds good with the HF-2.
- With Paradox, HE-400, HE-500, HD800, it's GREAT.
- The amp scales with DACs; e.g., differences between Gungnir, PWD2, AGD M7, can easily be heard. This includes tonal balance, resolution, etc.
- It doesn't have quite the low-end grunt / sub-bass power / low-end extension as the Mjolnir or other big boy amps, but this is expected for its footprint.
- This is by far, considering it's expected price, the most impressive piece of Schiit I've heard yet.
Awesome!
How would you compare it to the CTH?
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Yep, $99. It may have to go up, since we're going to be doing a bit more work to match tubes (handling the flying leads is a pain in the ass, we need to build a test fixture) and some damping of microphonics. But even then, we're talking $119.
It'll never be as quiet as Magni, though...these tubes would never work in, say, a phono preamp or other low-noise application. But they work very well here. Surprisingly well for something that started as a "what if?" project. It would have never come to market if it didn't sound good. We have a number of projects like that--failed concepts. Ah, well.
We'll be posting the Vali on the website when it is available, which should be about 2-3 weeks.
For some tech details, Vali is a hybrid, using 6088 pencil tubes, triode-strapped, with a discrete bipolar follower stage that is somewhat related to the Magni's output stage. It is DC-coupled to the follower through a bipolar phase inverter and level shifter. The tubes run on a regulated 60V rail, which is fine for a tube rated for a maximum anode voltage of 67.5V. The bipolar part operates on a 27V rail. Its rated output will be about half that of the Magni.
Downsides? The microphonics (mentioned, and we'll be VERY clear about it in the FAQ) and no rolling. The tubes are soldered into the board, since their expected lifespan is in the 15-20k hour range, and it's what Raytheon recommended back in the day. Plus, even if you swapped in another tube, the rather unique operating range for these tubes means it probably wouldn't work.
And that's about all the engineer-speak for today. I have to get back to prepping at RMAF (a real, cosmetic Vali will be at RMAF, as well as a Ragnarok proto) and back to finalizing our facilities move. We're leaving our 1800sf place in Newhall for a proper industrial location in Valencia that is 5200sf, so we have some room to grow.
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How would you compare it to the CTH?
More resolving. Clearer. Greater dynamics. Slightly brighter, less forgiving.
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How would you compare it to the CTH?
More resolving. Clearer. Greater dynamics. Slightly brighter, less forgiving.
AWESOME! Really want to demo it now. :)p7
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Yeah, I wanted to be clear that although this thing has tubes in it, it doesn't smooth things over. The slight mid-treble bump of the Paradox is still there. The brightness in the last octave of the HE-400 is still there.
But it's possible all headphones sound on the bright side to me since my main speaker setup is what I would call a touch dark.
Yep, $99. It may have to go up, since we're going to be doing a bit more work to match tubes (handling the flying leads is a pain in the ass, we need to build a test fixture) and some damping of microphonics. But even then, we're talking $119.
Anax told me he didn't want to say anything good about it because he was afraid you guys may increase the price. But he did say it's better than any other amp below $1650 that he's heard (he hasn't heard any of your other new stuff.) Personally I think you guys should price it at $1199. Or at least put it in a huge fancy chassis and price it at $1199.
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Yeah, I wanted to be clear that although this thing has tubes in it, it doesn't smooth things over. The slight mid-treble bump of the Paradox is still there. The brightness in the last octave of the HE-400 is still there.
But it's possible all headphones sound on the bright side to me since my main speaker setup is what I would call a touch dark.
Yep, $99. It may have to go up, since we're going to be doing a bit more work to match tubes (handling the flying leads is a pain in the ass, we need to build a test fixture) and some damping of microphonics. But even then, we're talking $119.
Anax told me he didn't want to say anything good about it because he was afraid you guys may increase the price. But he did say it's better than any other amp below $1650 that he's heard (he hasn't heard any of your other new stuff.) Personally I think you guys should price it at $1199. Or at least put it in a huge fancy chassis and price it at $1199.
Okay, one last comment, then really back to the craziness: I think it would be hilarious to do a billet aluminum version with viscoelastic tube dampers, but then again, that really ain't us. We're pretty simple-minded when it comes to pricing: what does it cost to make? What's the multiplier for direct sale? There's the price.
The good news is stuff like Vali, which is in an inexpensive chassis and is a simple product, so it can be very cheap.
The bad news is stuff like Ragnarok. Ragnarok crept way up during development, from an anticipated $1000-1100 to $1499. Of course, Ragnarok transformed from a fairly standard integrated with a pot and select switch and DC servo gain stage into something with relay-switched stepped attenuator, relay input switching, and full microprocessor management of the DC level and quiescent operating level, so it's really a different product. The microprocessor management aspect is great, because it allows us to eliminate the DC servo, so this thing really is DC all the way through, no caps, no servo, no nothing. The microprocessor also protects against any fault conditions, such as over current, shorts, over DC, etc, so no worries there. That's one of the reasons it took a billion years to develop. Two false starts will eat a ton of time.
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Okay, one last comment, then really back to the craziness: I think it would be hilarious to do a billet aluminum version with viscoelastic tube dampers, but then again, that really ain't us. We're pretty simple-minded when it comes to pricing: what does it cost to make? What's the multiplier for direct sale? There's the price.
Don't be surprised if we take it upon ourselves to make a limited edition Changstar Vali chassis from billet aluminum.
Ragnarok transformed from a fairly standard integrated with a pot and select switch and DC servo gain stage into something with relay-switched stepped attenuator, relay input switching, and full microprocessor management of the DC level and quiescent operating level, so it's really a different product. The microprocessor management aspect is great, because it allows us to eliminate the DC servo, so this thing really is DC all the way through, no caps, no servo, no nothing. The microprocessor also protects against any fault conditions, such as over current, shorts, over DC, etc, so no worries there. That's one of the reasons it took a billion years to develop. Two false starts will eat a ton of time.
Cool. That sounds like a Star Trek starship super-computer that keeps the warp core from exploding.
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What does the microprocessor control exactly? Quiescent currents and output relays?
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It does NOT play nice w/ the UERM's crossovers. I assumed higher output impredance but I hear that's not the case. For some reason the UERM and TF10 don't seem to play too nice w/ their crossover setups. The DBA02/B2 was perfectly fine w/ the Vali last night, had a hard time switching off the music and going to bed. There is some noise but how much that matters depends on your IEMs sensitivity and your hiss tolerance. The pot performed well w/ little if any channel imbalance down low. Worked great w/ the HD800 too even though it's signature is not what people assume would be a good pairing. Most people know nothing about the HD800 anyway.. :)p17
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How does this compare to the Lyr? I was deciding rather to go with the Asgard2 or Lyr, but this is very tempting.
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The Lyr has a warmer tone and more low bass impact than the Vali. The Asgard 2 is not as warm as the Lyr, but it does have more solid bass and better low end extension than the Vali. I think the Lyr is the weakest of the bunch. It is one of their oldest designs, and Jason knows that I have never personally been too fond of the Lyr in absolute terms.
What headphones are you using? The choice really comes down to the Asgard 2 or Vali for me. BTW, the Asgard 2 actually sounds better in some regards to even the Mjolnir. It seems like Schiit is taking "lessons learned" from the prior generation and applying them to new generations of schiit.
But assuming you don't need the warmer tone and low-end impact, the Vali otherwise destroys the Lyr in terms of clarity, microdetail, and microdynamics, resolution, etc.. I kind of hate to say that. [UPDATE: read on concerning the warmth of the Vali...]
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Yeah I was kinda hoping for Schiit to make a Lyr2 in all regards, and this does seem like a better option in certain aspects, but I was also hoping for a very meaty low, low end. Something which I feel most of the amps I've tried have been lacking-- using O2 and Magni as examples.
The headphone right now I'm using is the HE-400 with a treble rolloff up top to tame the brittleness, but either the LCDX or LCDXC look like upgrade candidates to me. I sorta liked the LCD2 but it was a little too mellow and other warm/flat headphones never had the bass extension of the HE-400 or LCD2. I'd want an amp that can emphasize that extension.
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Better w/ the Paradox: Asgard 2 or Vali?
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If you can get a file from Schitt with the detailed board dimensions I can get that fabricated pronto! Viscoelastic tube dampers not included! No wooden knobs though. ;)
If only we could have one in time to make it a special Changstar raffle item at the Bay Area meet!
Don't be surprised if we take it upon ourselves to make a limited edition Changstar Vali chassis from billet aluminum.
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[size=78%]Better w/ the Paradox: Asgard 2 or Vali?[/size][size=78%][/size]
That's a tough call. The Asgard 2 is the Schiit amp which I feel works with the widest variety of headphones - both tonally and noise wise. It is actually clearer sounding than the Mojo, which I feel has the slighted touch of a low level haze, although no one at HF would ever believe me if I said so. (The Mojo has more balls down low than the Asgard 2 tho.)
The Vali is just more musically involving than the Asgard 2. Nothing beats well done tubes for me. I am actually currently listening to the Vali / Paradox combo with a single PEQ setting: 8khz -3db Q=3 to tame the mid-treble, and only because I've grown much less tolerant of brightness with my speaker listening of late.
I'm also finding myself more willing to use digital EQ these days to correction for headphone irregularities. At least with those headphones which are correctable.
Yeah I was kinda hoping for Schiit to make a Lyr2 in all regards, and this does seem like a better option in certain aspects, but I was also hoping for a very meaty low, low end.
Indeed, a Lyr 2 incorporating "lessons learned" would be awesome.
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Man...this amp sounds very promising. :)p1
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Purrin & Jason.. you guys have made my week with this info.. thanks!
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So given my criteria, is it worth it for me to exchange my Magni out for this little Schit?
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To me, Vali > Magni in every way, unless you need a very low noise amp for IEMs or high efficiency headphones. The Vali treble quality is better than the Magni which can sound splashy at high SPL.
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I'm a planar head, no IEMs for me.
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I'm a planar head
http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/nparr/index_files/Page398.htm
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Don't be surprised if we take it upon ourselves to make a limited edition Changstar Vali chassis from billet aluminum.
I was actually really close to buying some nice billet aluminum chunks off ebay a couple days ago but couldn't think of what project to use them for. 8)
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I think I might get that Asgard2 instead if it has a meatier low low end.
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I wouldn't necessarily say so. I could have spoken too soon.
Left the Vali on for an hour and just came back. Now running without any EQ at all with the Paradox. (The Paradox/Vali is sublime.) This tends to happen with tubes - the treble gets more laid back upon warm-up. I'd say the Vali is maybe touch warmer sounding than the Asgard 2 and most certainly the Magni. At $120, just buy it. You won't be sorry.
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It would make a better complement to the modo aesthetically. If I bought the Asgard2 I'd almost feel obligated to dump 5-600 into a usb, uber bifrost.
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Given the demand for Schiitt products at our meet last year I am sure it will be a huge seller! I am thinking of picking this up for my girlfriend to use with the modded t50rps I "made for her". headbang
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Not thin and blonde enough, hard to be deeply invested with interest. Unless Schiit considers including a wavy blonde wig with the amp, then I could be... I could give a second to care.
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FR and distortion taken on Paradox ~80db.
Objective2 amp -> Paradox measurements included for reference.
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Me and purrin tend to use 'warm' a bit differently. His is more bass specific, mine is more overall tone. For me the Magni overall is a warmer amp, while the Vali is brighter and more analytical. In a way, the Magni has more of that forgiving tube type sound people associate w/ it and the Vali is the more 'solid state' sounding w/o the 'solid state'. That's tubes done right. Unless my phone had more severe severe issues in the treble, I'd go Vali in every way. It's not remotely a sidegrade to me, Magni is blown out the water assuming nothing changes.
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Been waiting for this since it was first posted :)
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FR and distortion taken on Paradox ~80db.
Objective2 amp -> Paradox measurements included for reference.
Oh those measures clearly indicate the inferiority of tubes. :)p8 :)p13
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Me and purrin tend to use 'warm' a bit differently. His is more bass specific, mine is more overall tone. For me the Magni overall is a warmer amp, while the Vali is brighter and more analytical. In a way, the Magni has more of that forgiving tube type sound people associate w/ it and the Vali is the more 'solid state' sounding w/o the 'solid state'. That's tubes done right. Unless my phone had more severe severe issues in the treble, I'd go Vali in every way. It's not remotely a sidegrade to me, Magni is blown out the water assuming nothing changes.
I already think Magni could be considered a pretty bright amp regardless. To have something be bright next to the Magni, yet its treble not sound as splashy as the Magni, sounds kind of weird.
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Reading through this thread I'm confused involving the description of the Vali? Is the Vali an overly bright amp? I heard the Magni awhile back at a head-fi meet and I thought it sounded borderline analytical. If it's brighter I don't know if I'd risk a buy considering I need an amp for the UERM, Q701 and the Paradox. Still, better then any amp under 1650? That's a rather bold statement that's has me thinking. So, you guys think it's worth the risk?
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Me and purrin tend to use 'warm' a bit differently. His is more bass specific, mine is more overall tone. For me the Magni overall is a warmer amp, while the Vali is brighter and more analytical. In a way, the Magni has more of that forgiving tube type sound people associate w/ it and the Vali is the more 'solid state' sounding w/o the 'solid state'. That's tubes done right. Unless my phone had more severe severe issues in the treble, I'd go Vali in every way. It's not remotely a sidegrade to me, Magni is blown out the water assuming nothing changes.
I already think Magni could be considered a pretty bright amp regardless. To have something be bright next to the Magni, yet its treble not sound as splashy as the Magni, sounds kind of weird.
Which Magni do you have? I have an updated one and it is not bright. I did a quick power on and A/B last night. I'll let it warm up and see how it sounds later tonight. Don't let my Magni impressions throw you off. Vali is bright if your phones are bright. Forget the terminology. It extends both ways and isn't harsh so just stop freaking out about it. I know most SS amps have you guys all paranoid as hell about the treble bite and digititus. If anyone thinks I can remotely stand the Benchmark DAC1 sound think again.
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I have Magni #356. When comparing it to the O2 it's a little brighter and more aggressive. The difference wasn't huge to me though. A couple of members on head-fi say their Magni has brighter treble than O2 as well.
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Me and purrin tend to use 'warm' a bit differently. His is more bass specific, mine is more overall tone. For me the Magni overall is a warmer amp, while the Vali is brighter and more analytical. In a way, the Magni has more of that forgiving tube type sound people associate w/ it and the Vali is the more 'solid state' sounding w/o the 'solid state'. That's tubes done right. Unless my phone had more severe severe issues in the treble, I'd go Vali in every way. It's not remotely a sidegrade to me, Magni is blown out the water assuming nothing changes.
I already think Magni could be considered a pretty bright amp regardless. To have something be bright next to the Magni, yet its treble not sound as splashy as the Magni, sounds kind of weird.
Which Magni do you have? I have an updated one and it is not bright. I did a quick power on and A/B last night. I'll let it warm up and see how it sounds later tonight. Don't let my Magni impressions throw you off. Vali is bright if your phones are bright. Forget the terminology. It extends both ways and isn't harsh so just stop freaking out about it. I know most SS amps have you guys all paranoid as hell about the treble bite and digititus. If anyone thinks I can remotely stand the Benchmark DAC1 sound think again.
So you're saying this new amp is neutral?
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Okay, I'm interested. Do I see a new member of the Pirate's Booty? :wheel:
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So you're saying this new amp is neutral?
I think that would be a fair statement. As Anax alluded to, while the treble is evident, it's not glaring, hard-sounding, steely, splashy, strident, nasty, etched, etc. I haven't had a chance to hear the new Magni for an extended period of time, but from my brief experience with it, I sense the new ones are not as steely in the treble as the early one I heard.
The Vali has been on for a few hours and I've listened with the HP1000, HE400, K550 (a very good unit), HF2, M-Moda M80, Paradox, etc. Everything sounds as it's supposed to sound or as what I would expect.
For all intents and purposes, this is a mini - Eddie Current amp. It has a lot of similarities to the EC house sound. Like yeah, oh fuck, it's that good. I hope neither Craig or Jason take offense to that.
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I may run two and make my own Miniwoomono. headbang
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Me and purrin tend to use 'warm' a bit differently. His is more bass specific, mine is more overall tone. For me the Magni overall is a warmer amp, while the Vali is brighter and more analytical. In a way, the Magni has more of that forgiving tube type sound people associate w/ it and the Vali is the more 'solid state' sounding w/o the 'solid state'. That's tubes done right. Unless my phone had more severe severe issues in the treble, I'd go Vali in every way. It's not remotely a sidegrade to me, Magni is blown out the water assuming nothing changes.
I already think Magni could be considered a pretty bright amp regardless. To have something be bright next to the Magni, yet its treble not sound as splashy as the Magni, sounds kind of weird.
I read anaxilus description as the Vali is leaner and more accurate but doesn't have extra unneeded spitting treble while the magni is a warmer amp with extra sparkle up on top. (Correct me if i am wrong though).
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I may run two and make my own Miniwoomono. headbang
Jason, would this thing explode if we made appropriate adapters from DAC XLR outs and ran them bridged? One amp per channel.
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Brighter, leaner, more analytical, not as steely treble as magni, more meaty bass than asgard2 and magni. I'll take that to mean it's just nimble and dynamic at the same time.
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Kudos to Schiit for continuing to cater to the entry level market. They have this segment cornered but are still pushing the envelope and presenting fantastic value. They deserve the praise and support from this community.
:ship:
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Modi+Vali as entry level combo?
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Yes, but Vali can really use a better DAC. The Vali is fully capable of reproducing the nuances of several much more expensive DACs / USB converters I have sitting around the house.
Bifrost uber + Vali + ~$500 headphone makes more sense. Doesn't look as neat though as the Modi + Vali stacked up.
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Subscribed :) I can use some tube gear after all, its getting dark and cold here :)p3
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So I wonder if there will be a choice of a couple of different tubes -- perhaps one build that is more analytical and one more "warm"?
My favorite amp is the Mapletree I have -- quite, smooth, involving. Just a great amp.
I also have a pimped CTH which is very good, but not in the league of the Mapletree. I am hoping the Vali is a step up from the CTH, but is not too analytical.
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Ugh, could this be my first forray in toobs? Heresy!
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I may run two and make my own Miniwoomono. headbang
Jason, would this thing explode if we made appropriate adapters from DAC XLR outs and ran them bridged? One amp per channel.
It won't explode, but it will double the noise floor and the output impedance (already at about 8 ohms.) To do balanced right with those tubes would take a different design, one that probably hands off most of the gain to a separate VAS stage--and then that's really a different amp. Might be good, might be ok, might be bad.
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If the Loki ends up being the bottleneck for the Vali, possibly time for some Loki upgrades?
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If the Loki ends up being the bottleneck for the Vali, possibly time for some Loki upgrades?
Loki's actually very, very good for DSD. If you want to convert all your PCM on the fly, it's really a nice setup. There. I said something nice about DSD. The world explodes.
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The 8 ohms explains the UERM behavior (nominal 16 ohms with a REALLY REALLY messed up impedance curve). It does sound lower than 8 ohms tho. Bass control wasn't an issue with HE400, but I didn't really expect something this size to grab the HE-500 driver by the balls.
I hate how certain chipses render DSD better than PCM. Makes sense though if you think about it.
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Ugh. I was just in the process of downsizing everything, and now I'm trying to find ANY reason to get this Vali. Maybe I can convince the GF to let me put a rig in the bathroom...
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So I wonder if there will be a choice of a couple of different tubes -- perhaps one build that is more analytical and one more "warm"?
My favorite amp is the Mapletree I have -- quite, smooth, involving. Just a great amp.
I also have a pimped CTH which is very good, but not in the league of the Mapletree. I am hoping the Vali is a step up from the CTH, but is not too analytical.
I don't think the Vali is as euphonic or tubey as the Mapletree, but I also don't feel it's analytical. One man's analytical can be other man's musical. I think tubes can provide a very clear, speedy, layered, and resolving sound, but I don't think can ever sound analytical, except in rare cases. If you are familiar with the DNA or EC designs, the Vali is more along those lines.
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Thanks Marv.
Good points on "analytical." To be a bit more specific, I had a Meier Concerto and hated it.
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I think I said the Vali is more analytical sounding than the Magni. Not that it is analytical sounding as in cold and sterile. That's a relative comparison, not an absolute statement. That means X is more proficient sounding in a technical sense than Y. I'm going to have to start posting in deductive if/then statements or Venn diagrams perhaps. :P
My Magni here is #2151, I couldn't get it to be 'bright' last night. If this Magni is considered bright, I can't imagine what people would think the ODAC is. Supernova perhaps.
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Yes, this is not a Meier sound.
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There. I said something nice about DSD.
And it didn't hurt a bit, did it?
Will you be able to send a production model down to the Head-Fi meet in Coronado on 11/2?
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If the Loki ends up being the bottleneck for the Vali, possibly time for some Loki upgrades?
Loki's actually very, very good for DSD. If you want to convert all your PCM on the fly, it's really a nice setup. There. I said something nice about DSD. The world explodes.
Sorry I meant to say Modi.
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Ugh. I was just in the process of downsizing everything, and now I'm trying to find ANY reason to get this Vali. Maybe I can convince the GF to let me put a rig in the bathroom...
Fast forward 2 months: "Why were you in the bathroom for four hours?"
I'm going to have to start posting in deductive if/then statements or Venn diagrams perhaps. :P
I think I speak for everyone when I say I'd prefer that all of your descriptions of gear come in the form of state transition diagrams. p;)
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There. I said something nice about DSD.
And it didn't hurt a bit, did it?
Will you be able to send a production model down to the Head-Fi meet in Coronado on 11/2?
If production is shipping by that time, absolutely!
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Maybe I can convince the GF to let me put a rig in the bathroom...
This would certainly be the right branding for that. Hur hur hur.
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The real question is: Where's the Pirate ordering page at? :-DD
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tubes
:gross:
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Two tone (500Hz and 1800Hz @ ~70db) measurements of the Paradox driven by the Vali and O2.
Both IMD and HD can be seen. Vali (first graph) has about 5db higher IMD and HD compared to O2 (second graph). For D2 on the 1800 tone, Vali is 10db higher.
POSSIBLE CONCLUSIONS:
- Those who wish audio perfection should opt for the Objective 2 amp.
- Those who wish to see God, or at least a small part of God, should opt for the Vali.
- The differences are too small to say anything definitive.
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Bwwwwllaaaaaagghhhh that VAli sounds so terrible looking at that graph. :)p13
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- Those who wish to see God, or at least a small part of God, should opt for the Vali.
What parts of God? The good bits? If so, sign me up!
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So you're saying this new amp is neutral?
I think that would be a fair statement. As Anax alluded to, while the treble is evident, it's not glaring, hard-sounding, steely, splashy, strident, nasty, etched, etc. I haven't had a chance to hear the new Magni for an extended period of time, but from my brief experience with it, I sense the new ones are not as steely in the treble as the early one I heard.
The Vali has been on for a few hours and I've listened with the HP1000, HE400, K550 (a very good unit), HF2, M-Moda M80, Paradox, etc. Everything sounds as it's supposed to sound or as what I would expect.
For all intents and purposes, this is a mini - Eddie Current amp. It has a lot of similarities to the EC house sound. Like yeah, oh fuck, it's that good. I hope neither Craig or Jason take offense to that.
Alright Marv, you had me when you began to describe the Vali being similar to the Eddie Current house sound. Going by your findings my Paradox should be a win situation and I'm thinking of getting a HE-500 next year some time so I'm covered for those two headphones. My UERM unfortunately is a no go. You think the Vali might be a good mate with my Q701? Also, I'm using the CLAS-db as my home DAC. You think the Vali will like playing ball with my CLAS?
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LOL. Copied from HF:
I actually think the Q701 is pretty good. Now I did own a K701 for a few weeks and even tried burning it in for 400 hours - well that didn't do schiit. Ultimately, the K701 sound was way too much on the dry and thin side for my tastes. But the Q701 has a fuller sound than the K701. Also the K701 was driven by an old HR amp, which looking back now, probably did not help matters.
The Vali should be a good match. I've heard the Q701 from a few TOTL tube head-amps with output Z in the single digits (Vali is ~8ohms) and liked it. The Vali should perform similarly.
The CLAS should be fine. I haven't had extensive time listening to it, but I like it with that ALO brick thing mk3. (TRYING TO LOOK UP MODEL NAME - GODDAMIT - CAN THE ALO SITE REALLY BE THAT HARD TO USE? LIKE A MASSIVE FRICKING FLASH ANIMATION.)
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Lol, sorry for picking your brain on both forums I'm a rather impatient sort. Thanks again, I'm going to grab a Vali once the order page goes live.
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No worries. I'm on both places. Similar material, but different slant.
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so nice. wish I had use for one... :D
hopefully my favourite dealers will get some for demo.
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I did not expect to say this. Schiit makes me consider upgrading again... (Knowing I am a student this is extra unexpected.)
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ultrabike, If you could try them with sensitive yet medium impedance cans that fluctuate like the hd558/598 that would be great.
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How'd the Vali sound with the HE-500? Any impedance/damping issues?
Yeah, I did. (Constructed a makeshift headband for my HE-500 cups that exploded.)
While the Vali doesn't do any favors for the HE-500's spongy bass (the Mjolnir and my power amp to an even greater extent do help control the sponginess), the Vali -> HE-500 is still a very good listen and something I prefer over say the Vali -> HE400.
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Hey Mates. Just to moved to the Denver area, so got to drop into RMAF yesterday. Tracked down Jason and crew at the Schiit table and immediately planted myself in front of Vali. Wow. LCD2r2's were plugged in (not my favorite can, but familiar). Maybe it's the relative size/cost/simplicity of the thing relative to the headphones it was driving that helps it be such a stunner, but Vali has serious chops. Clear, dynamic, linear, slam, very slightly euphonic (minimal, not OTL euphonic).
After a good listen, I set them down and told Jason two things: 1) I want one, and 2) He'll sell everyone of these he can make. At $119 (Jason's price point - wasn't sure if this was nailed down/mentioned above), this thing isn't going to help Magni sales. Which makes it a bit more amazing that Jason is selling this thing; it's not often vendors release a product that competes with another in their stable.
My newly built Crack with Speedball/custom DAC/T90 has been getting a lot of play lately. A Vali in the house would have me cheating on her. :)p7
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How'd the Vali sound with the HE-500? Any impedance/damping issues?
Yeah, I did. (Constructed a makeshift headband for my HE-500 cups that exploded.)
While the Vali doesn't do any favors for the HE-500's spongy bass (the Mjolnir and my power amp to an even greater extent do help control the sponginess), the Vali -> HE-500 is still a very good listen and something I prefer over say the Vali -> HE400.
Thanks, Purrin. How the bass came through (w/ the Vali) was what I was most interested in. So, would you say the Asgard 2 is a better match for the HE-500 than the Vali?
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For the bass yes. Vali is a bit soft with HE-500 bass. Most of my preferred listening with the cans I had on hand was with the HE-400 and Paradox.
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For the bass yes. Vali is a bit soft with HE-500 bass. Most of my preferred listening with the cans I had on hand was with the HE-400 and Paradox.
Ah.. I see.. so, if I understand correctly.. the Vali doesn't necessarily 'enhance' the HE-500 bass (rendering it boomy or bloated).. but it doesn't control it "exceptionally" well, either (like a Mjo or HQ speaker amp would). But at the price point (and a few point above it), it's more than impressive.. right?
Glad to hear you liked it with the HD800, as well.. I guess it would be safe to say it would sound nice with the HD600, as well then.
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Ah.. I see.. so, if I understand correctly.. the Vali doesn't necessarily 'enhance' the HE-500 bass (rendering it boomy or bloated).. but it doesn't control it "exceptionally" well, either (like a Mjo or HQ speaker amp would). But at the price point (and a few point above it), it's more than impressive.. right?
Glad to hear you liked it with the HD800, as well.. I guess it would be safe to say it would sound nice with the HD600, as well then.
Yes, exactly. The Vali does not do any favors for the HE-500's bass, but what else it brings to the table (dynamics, slight euphony, resolution) is well above its price point.
This is an excellent amp for the Senn HD600/650/800.
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Is this the dac thats keeps being mentioned?
http://www.digitalaudioblog.com/2011/05/chevron-audio-paradox-8i-dac.html
or this?
http://www.chevronaudio.co.uk/html/paradox_dac.html
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Paradox is a headphone LFF created and sells.
http://referencesounds.com/index.html (http://referencesounds.com/index.html)
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I have been looking for an inexpensive amp that sounds great with the HD800 and doesn't get left behind in the dust. Could this be it?
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Paradox is a headphone LFF created and sells.
http://referencesounds.com/index.html (http://referencesounds.com/index.html)
Ah! Gotcha thanks! What DAC runs well with the VALI?
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Schiit Modi would provide the most appropriate cosmetic match. Get the best DAC that you can. Bifrost uber has been suggested.
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Thanks!
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Wow, this looks so promising. I wonder if it might fit into my chain somewhere as an upgrade...advice? I'm pretty pleased with my current setup, and have been wondering where I would get the biggest gains in terms of my next upgrade.
At home:
HRT MSII --> Asgard 1 --> DT880 (250 ohm). If I upgrade my headphones one of these days, I've got my eyes on the HE-500s, but this could be a long way off.
Work:
Audinst HUD-mx1 --> DT1350
Any opinions on how this little amp may fit in (or not) would be very appreciated.
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Can't wait for this to release. November was it?
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Wow, this looks so promising. I wonder if it might fit into my chain somewhere as an upgrade...advice? I'm pretty pleased with my current setup, and have been wondering where I would get the biggest gains in terms of my next upgrade.
At home:
HRT MSII --> Asgard 1 --> DT880 (250 ohm). If I upgrade my headphones one of these days, I've got my eyes on the HE-500s, but this could be a long way off.
Work:
Audinst HUD-mx1 --> DT1350
Any opinions on how this little amp may fit in (or not) would be very appreciated.
- DT880 should work great
- DT1350 may be too efficient = noise
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Wow, this looks so promising. I wonder if it might fit into my chain somewhere as an upgrade...advice? I'm pretty pleased with my current setup, and have been wondering where I would get the biggest gains in terms of my next upgrade.
At home:
HRT MSII --> Asgard 1 --> DT880 (250 ohm). If I upgrade my headphones one of these days, I've got my eyes on the HE-500s, but this could be a long way off.
Work:
Audinst HUD-mx1 --> DT1350
Any opinions on how this little amp may fit in (or not) would be very appreciated.
- DT880 should work great
- DT1350 may be too efficient = noise
Do you think it would be an actual "upgrade" over the Asgard?
I'm wondering if my money may be better spent on the DAC side of things.
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Vali sounds really different from Asgard 1. Asgard 1 was warm and fuzzy, and not necessarily in a good way, but a great match for cans with spiky treble such as Grados.
Vali is way more involving, dynamic, and resolving. The Vali's slight inner warmth and non fatiguing treble should be a good match for the DT880s.
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Vali sounds really different from Asgard 1. Asgard 1 was warm and fuzzy, and not necessarily in a good way, but a great match for cans with spiky treble such as Grados.
Vali is way more involving, dynamic, and resolving. The Vali's slight inner warmth and non fatiguing treble should be a good match for the DT880s.
Interesting. I've really enjoyed the Asgard and am not sure warm and fuzzy is how I'd describe it. That said, my frame of reference is quite small. The Vali may be too tempting to pass up.
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any idea if this would work OK with RE-600? or perhaps RE-400 would be ok to try with and guess from there?
tempted to get for HD650 but not sure if I'd be cool with it suxxing for the in-ears.
edit: I can't seem to find release info... but say if it was in November, when would it be available in Europe?
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If I'm driving an HD600 & a Paradox, would you say, from a SQ standpoint, that owning a Vali and an Asgard 2 would be redundant? If so, which of the two amps would you choose to drive the HD600/Paradox, purely on the basis of SQ?
I get the sense these two amps are much more similar than different.. with the A2 providing more power, 'grunt,' and versatility (due to the low OI). The A2 seems to offer better bass performance.. but how does the A2's mids and treble stack up to the Vali?
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Vali and Asgard 2 are more different than similar. Vali has that type of Eddie current tube amp sound whic people feel is more on the analytical side for tube amps. Lots of inner resolution and micro dynamics. Asgard 2 is a Lavry-esque refined and smooth SS sound. Also like Violectric but less warm/more neutral in tone color with a better sense of air/separation. I'm not sure but I beleive the V200 would have a greater sense of drive and macro dynamics though. Tonally speaking I'd go Vali for Paradox assuming the hybrid output stage can manage the T50RP driver well. I did not try this. That is a very fickle driver IME. Depending on how you hear the HD600 I could go either way. If it sound a bit lean or bright go Asgard2, if more neutral or darker go Vali. Hard to say since we all have different reference points but I think you have a feel for where mine are.
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Vali and Asgard 2 are more different than similar. Vali has that type of Eddie current tube amp sound whic people feel is more on the analytical side for tube amps. Lots of inner resolution and micro dynamics. Asgard 2 is a Lavry-esque refined and smooth SS sound. Also like Violectric but less warm/more neutral in tone color with a better sense of air/separation. I'm not sure but I beleive the V200 would have a greater sense of drive and macro dynamics though. Tonally speaking I'd go Vali for Paradox assuming the hybrid output stage can manage the T50RP driver well. I did not try this. That is a very fickle driver IME. Depending on how you hear the HD600 I could go either way. If it sound a bit lean or bright go Asgard2, if more neutral or darker go Vali. Hard to say since we all have different reference points but I think you have a feel for where mine are.
That's exactly what I needed to know, thanks Anax.
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^FlySweep, I'll be buying a Vali regardless for my HD600/800. I could send it straight to you to check out if you want to try before buy.
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^FlySweep, I'll be buying a Vali regardless for my HD600/800. I could send it straight to you to check out if you want to try before buy.
Appreciate you looking out, Christian.. I plan on buying one regardless, as well! Haha. I've always been a fan of Schiit's stuff.. and this little guy is super-affordable, too. My HD600 isn't going anywhere.. so the Vali will get plenty of use.
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I think I'll pick up a vali! I want to pair it with my Q701. Unless some of the other akg stuff seems promising.
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I bit the bullet and committed on buying an Asgard2 off someone rather than getting the Vali. I think eventually I'll get the Bifrost and have a nice looking stack, plus the additional versatility seems to be the way to go for those new Audeze cans.
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Dang, is there any way Schiit can release a version where we can actually see the tubes? Or would it be possible to cut into the case so we can see the tube? :)p3
Purrin, any idea how well this would work with Alpha Dog/Mad Dog T50RPs? I have a custom amp/dac at the moment with a CS4398 DAC and an O2 with OPA2134 opamp. I've always wanted to give tube amps a shot, and this is actually affordable enough that I think I could give it a go without my wallet feeling too much pain.
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On the production version, there are two sets of vents over where the tubes lie. So you can kind of see them. The tubes being tiny don't really light up that much.
The Vali isn't one of those tube amps which intentionally roll off the treble or take a lot of the edge off (maybe takes the edge off a little bit). I think it can even be said to be slightly bright, though not as much as the Modi. And it certainly. has more mid and upper bass warmth than the Modi.
MD's should work great with it based on my experience with the Paradox. The lesser efficient orthos (HE-500, T50RP mods, Abyss) are actually a better match because they are not as sensitive to the microphonics of the tubes.
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Hmmm, given I am finished with headphones this Vali, Magni + Modi or Rock'N Glass are next on the list.
I like what I have read...
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I currently run HD800 directly from a Benchmark DAC1 (older version), would the Vali be a amp upgrade over the built in amp in the BM?
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I currently run HD800 directly from a Benchmark DAC1 (older version), would the Vali be a amp upgrade over the built in amp in the BM?
- If you believe in the paranormal, voodoo, God, gods, or the divine, the Vali is a much better sounding amp than Benchmark internal amp for the HD800.
- If you believe that science explains all phenomena, including that of existence, self, perception, then the Vali is placebo and will provide you with no benefits.
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I currently run HD800 directly from a Benchmark DAC1 (older version), would the Vali be a amp upgrade over the built in amp in the BM?
- If you believe in the paranormal, voodoo, God, gods, or the divine, the Vali is a much better sounding amp than Benchmark internal amp for the HD800.
- If you believe that science explains all phenomena, including that of existence, self, perception, then the Vali is placebo and will provide you with no benefits.
I think I are somewhere between. :money: You should never the discount the power of placebo! It works even if you are told it's placebo (atleast in medicine and psychology) :)p17
Option B is the easier and cheaper way, but the VALI is pretty cheap for a good amp, and would maybe convince me that tubes with the HD800 is the way to go.
What do you think? Do you think the VALI would convince me there is a audiophile heaven with tubes (or at least be a upgrade from the BM amp ;))
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On the production version, there are two sets of vents over where the tubes lie. So you can kind of see them. The tubes being tiny don't really light up that much.
The Vali isn't one of those tube amps which intentionally roll off the treble or take a lot of the edge off (maybe takes the edge off a little bit). I think it can even be said to be slightly bright, though not as much as the Modi. And it certainly. has more mid and upper bass warmth than the Modi.
MD's should work great with it based on my experience with the Paradox. The lesser efficient orthos (HE-500, T50RP mods, Abyss) are actually a better match because they are not as sensitive to the microphonics of the tubes.
Okay, I see. Thanks.
I thought I was one of those "All amps sound the same" type folks until I heard an Audio Technica W3000ANV of all things on my O2, then on someone else's more expensive amp. :)p8
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I currently run HD800 directly from a Benchmark DAC1 (older version), would the Vali be a amp upgrade over the built in amp in the BM?
- If you believe in the paranormal, voodoo, God, gods, or the divine, the Vali is a much better sounding amp than Benchmark internal amp for the HD800.
- If you believe that science explains all phenomena, including that of existence, self, perception, then the Vali is placebo and will provide you with no benefits.
I think I are somewhere between. :money: You should never the discount the power of placebo! It works even if you are told it's placebo (atleast in medicine and psychology) :)p17
Option B is the easier and cheaper way, but the VALI is pretty cheap for a good amp, and would maybe convince me that tubes with the HD800 is the way to go.
What do you think? Do you think the VALI would convince me there is a audiophile heaven with tubes (or at least be a upgrade from the BM amp ;))
I compared it to the amp section of the Lynx Hilo with unmodified HD 800, and I'm ordering one. Hope that helps.
If you order one and decide you don't like it as well as the amp section of the Benchmark, you will have no difficulty reselling it at a fair price.
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What do you think? Do you think the VALI would convince me there is a audiophile heaven with tubes (or at least be a upgrade from the BM amp ;) )
Yes. The way I see it is that it's low risk. There's a good reason I'm using the Vali with $5K headphones with $3.5K DAC+transport until I decide on a more appropriate amp. The first time I heard the Vali, it was with the HD800. That's when I asked Jason if we would have a world exclusive on it before anyone else.
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Ok, thank you! I just read the whole thread, so sorry if my question was really dumb. I only have the BM because I got it used for a good price, and since it included an amp so I could save up to the HD800. Seems like a VALI in my chain is a good investment! :)
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Ok, thank you! I just read the whole thread, so sorry if my question was really dumb. I only have the BM because I got it used for a good price, and since it included an amp so I could save up to the HD800. Seems like a VALI in my chain is a good investment! :)
Yeah give it a shot. Next thing is to replace the rest of the Benchmark with a Schiit DAC :)
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Ok, thank you! I just read the whole thread, so sorry if my question was really dumb. I only have the BM because I got it used for a good price, and since it included an amp so I could save up to the HD800. Seems like a VALI in my chain is a good investment! :)
Yeah give it a shot. Next thing is to replace the rest of the Benchmark with a Schiit DAC :)
Do you think the bifrost is a better sounding dac then the BM? I have also been eyeing the matrix sabre dac, since I have read that it should play nicely with the HD800.
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I'm itching to pair a VALI with the slimline DAC build discussed in DIY. I'm assembling one identical to the one discussed, but I'm changing out the rather pedestrian 317 based linear with an SSR super reg. It's a lot bigger and will push a bigger case, but it's extremely low noise and very quick; can't wait to hear the improvement (no subjective assumptions there - really! :-) Anyway, I'm curious how VALI compares with my Crack for a high performance, low cost amp. Different designs for sure, just want to see which I prefer.
On a side note, It's taken awhile, but I finally understand what Jason's been saying all along re: the AK chips. As most of you know, I've build some extreme uber Sabre dacs (B1 IV's that throw off ~45W dissipation, extreme isolation/reclocking, Shunts all around). They've sounded fantastic, really - but I find I simply prefer the more organic sound of the AK chips.
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On a side note, It's taken awhile, but I finally understand what Jason's been saying all along re: the AK chips. As most of you know, I've build some extreme uber Sabre dacs (B1 IV's that throw off ~45W dissipation, extreme isolation/reclocking, Shunts all around). They've sounded fantastic, really - but I find I simply prefer the more organic sound of the AK chips.
Like I've said, if we were truly a marketing-driven company, we'd drop in a Sabre 9018 on a Bifrost analog card, start chanting "sabre-sabre-sabre-sabre" like everyone else, and sell it as an "upgrade." Or, if we were true dicks, a Sabre 9023, which costs 12x less than an AKM 4399, but it has that magic "Sabre" name. But we don't.
Reminds me of the UltraAnalog days. Or DSD today.
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Or you guys are true master marketers who don't want to pay the big bucks for the 9018 and convince everyone they don't need it and that your cheaper chips are superior.
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They've sounded fantastic, really - but I find I simply prefer the more organic sound of the AK chips.
Mike (Anax) and I were trying to be polite to you. We'd figured you would eventually figure it out. :)
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Ha! Yep, I figured as much. Once you cut through the herd noise and take in other chips/designs (Heck, I'll take a good Cirrus chip over the Sabre too), it's pretty clear. My problem was, I started there with my DAC builds. It was a case of not knowing what I didn't know. On the same topic; I think it was stated earlier that the sheer cost/effort needed to have a good sounding Sabre (9018) DAC is staggering. Not to mention my beast that dissipates some ~70W.... for a DAC. Sigh.
Lessons learned. Final comment; none of this 'being polite' and leaving me to my stupidity. Friends don't let friends...
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So, what is consensus on Vali with IEMs? Not BA, but with dynamic driver like IE800? Is it still gonna be too sensitive for that?
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Annnd... the Vali ordering page will finally go live on Monday, for anyone who's interested.
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Everyone's interested Jason! Roughly what approximate time? (I got Sc**t to do!) Thanks.
-Daniel
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I'd expect early morning Pacific time--probably 7-8AM.
We'll have a reasonable number on the shelves by that time, probably about 100 of them or so, but we'll probably still be quoting "5-7 days" for shipping, so the board house can catch up. They're supposed to do 200 per day after the first shipment today, but they sometimes skip a day or two. The next run is already cued up, but I wouldn't be surprised if you saw some "out of stock" days in December.
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Thank you for sending out the Schiit-signal! I can get out of bed for THAT!!!
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We'll put this up in the MOTD.
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We'll put this up in the MOTD.
I'm rolling...I need to put that one up on the wall at Schiit...now that we have walls you can hammer on and not (a) expect it to crumble to the floor, or (b) wake a rabid raccoon that will come shooting out of an air vent and gnaw your foot off.
(We didn't call the old shop the "schiithole" for nothing.)
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From humble beginnings comes Schiit that does not stink.
Please dress Mike Moffatt in a BatMan costume next October with Magni, Modi, Loki, and Vali on his utility belt..
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So... that rabid racoon was the unofficial Schiit mascot?
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Thanks for the details Jason-looking forward to hearing the Vali. Are we still shooting for a December release on the Rag as well? I plan on getting that too. Thanks.
-Dniel
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Do you think the bifrost is a better sounding dac then the BM? I have also been eyeing the matrix sabre dac, since I have read that it should play nicely with the HD800.
Yup. The Benchmark is one of my least favorite DACs. It's fine as a studio DAC which is what it's intended to be. But musical? No.
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They've sounded fantastic, really - but I find I simply prefer the more organic sound of the AK chips.
Yup. The AD1955 is the same way. You won't make any headlines by using four or eight (or sixteen) AD1955s, but you'll end up with a much better sounding DAC than anything using a 9018.
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Hello. I the fidelio x1 headphones. I'm thinking to buy magni and modi, but with the launch of vali, i'm not sure to buy magni.
I read that fidellios have a perfect match with lyr, but it is too expensive to me. Maybe vali is near to lyr than magni in therms of quality?
Do you think that vali will sound much better with fidelios than magni? Do you recommend me wait to vali launchment?
Thank you very much and sorry for my english.
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Do you think that vali will sound much better with fidelios than magni? Do you recommend me wait to vali launchment?
Thank you very much and sorry for my english.
Yes
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Annnd... the Vali ordering page will finally go live on Monday, for anyone who's interested.
What about Aussies Jason? Is it possible to get in on this first batch? Or do we need to wait on your distributer's stock and pricing?
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Jason has stated that with the Vali, there are concerns that it will Aussies late.
...I'll see myself out now.
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We actually direct-ship worldwide again, on the advice of our US lawyer--and USPS International First Class shipping is available for stuff under 4 lbs, if you want to take the gamble on an untracked, uninsured, and very slow shipping method.
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Heard this with the hp2 ?Would this vali be better than modi for it?
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Heard this with the hp2 ?Would this vali be better than modi for it?
Whet.
Vali's an amp, Modi is a DAC.
:-Z
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You are right, I meant magni.
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We actually direct-ship to Australia again, on the advice of our US lawyer--and USPS International First Class shipping is available for stuff under 4 lbs, if you want to take the gamble on an untracked, uninsured, and very slow shipping method.
Cool. I'm in.
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Ordered at 11:03AM EST... I hope I make it in for the first batch! Will be using the Vali for the hd600s and hd800s. If the vali sounds better than the balanced outputs on the nfb-10es2, I'm going to be a little bit sad that I'll only be utilizing its dac section.
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I ordered yesterday morning as well. Why the hell not for $120, especially after the impressions I've read here? Seems like a fun amp to try!
Oh, wait, it doesn't measure perfectly across the board like the O2. I should have known I was just throwing my money away before I even listened to it!
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I apparently type too hard to leave this on my desk. I had to move it to the audio rack next to my desk :)
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Wow is it that microphonic? My continental v2 goes crazy when I have it stacked with my Iphone and I go into the subway. Is the vali sensitive to movement only, or also stray frequencies and such? Still really looking forward to getting it tomorrow. I am more than willing to sacrifice microphonics for sound quality at this price point.
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I didn't have any issues with typing or gaming with the Vali on my desk.
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To be clear, I have a sit/stand desk at work and its not as stable as my anthro desk at home. That coupled with my mechanical keyboard, the fact that I bounce up and down all day while working, and because I apparently type with the force of a bulldozer makes my situation unique
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maybe some cheap/DIY isolation devices.
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Waiting for a Vali for my bedside rig. If it is as good as Marv said - and I do trust him - I wanted to build a headphone to complete it and do that little amp justice. So I built these: T50RP drivers in Karelian birch, HE-300 headband, Alpha Pads.
(http://www.ginrim.at/content/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/DSC_0210-1030x689.jpg)
(http://www.ginrim.at/content/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/DSC_0208-1030x689.jpg)
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Sooo sexy!
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I'm really loving the ODAC > vali > paradox combo. It seems a smidge better than the gamma2 with this pairing. My bedside rig is pretty awesome now!
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I'm ordering this to replace my bedside rig amp, a Matrix M-stage. How does the Vali compare in terms of macrodynamics and resolution on the HD800, Purrin?
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Just got some Schiit in a box. Really liking the Vali so far. Dynamics are really incredible and the sound seems much more precise without being harsh compared to the amp in the Anedio D2. What I have determined is the Sabre sound has been bugging me for a while. I could definitely live with the Vali/Anedio/HD800 combo. First time in a while I can't take the headphones off my head.
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Waiting for a Vali for my bedside rig. If it is as good as Marv said - and I do trust him - I wanted to build a headphone to complete it and do that little amp justice. So I built these: T50RP drivers in Karelian birch, HE-300 headband, Alpha Pads.
(http://www.ginrim.at/content/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/DSC_0210-1030x689.jpg)
(http://www.ginrim.at/content/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/DSC_0208-1030x689.jpg)
You could easily replace the "HE300" logo cap with a wooden piece to really complete the look.
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Just got some Schiit in a box. Really liking the Vali so far. Dynamics are really incredible and the sound seems much more precise without being harsh compared to the amp in the Anedio D2. What I have determined is the Sabre sound has been bugging me for a while. I could definitely live with the Vali/Anedio/HD800 combo. First time in a while I can't take the headphones off my head.
This is great to hear! I won't have until closer to Christmas (travelling), but I am looking forward to hearing this little tube amp! How is the soundstaging on these compared to the HA on anedio? (I'm a sucker for huge soundstage)
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The huge soundstage of the HD800 is reduced a little by the Anax mod I am using but the Vali isn't any worse than the Anedio, I think it may be a little better. The soundstage is more coherent though. That was the first thing I noticed, the sounds fit together in a way that sounds more natural to me. That isn't to say all the sounds blend together, as I think the Vali is imaging more precisely that the HA on the Anedio.
The biggest thing I found is the lack of harsh bite. I found myself unnecessarily cringing when certain songs came on out of habit, only to find it wasn't necessary anymore. The Vali nails tonality and dynamics as well, so it isn't like they just rolled off the extremes and compressed the sound. I listened for 4 hours straight after I got it last night and woke up early this morning so I could listen again before I go to work. For $120 it is a no-brainer, it utterly destroys the Anedio D2 HA.
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The huge soundstage of the HD800 is reduced a little by the Anax mod I am using but the Vali isn't any worse than the Anedio, I think it may be a little better. The soundstage is more coherent though. That was the first thing I noticed, the sounds fit together in a way that sounds more natural to me. That isn't to say all the sounds blend together, as I think the Vali is imaging more precisely that the HA on the Anedio.
The biggest thing I found is the lack of harsh bite. I found myself unnecessarily cringing when certain songs came on out of habit, only to find it wasn't necessary anymore. The Vali nails tonality and dynamics as well, so it isn't like they just rolled off the extremes and compressed the sound. I listened for 4 hours straight after I got it last night and woke up early this morning so I could listen again before I go to work. For $120 it is a no-brainer, it utterly destroys the Anedio D2 HA.
Thank you for your impressions! I've already decided that this amp is a no-brainer, and hearing that they are open sounding and take some bite off the HD800 is certainly assuring. Thanks again! :money:
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It's taken restraint not to write over the last two days. Obviously, I'm not an active writer on the forum. I check in and grab as much information about phones and amps as I can.
I've had the Vali since Wednesday, and I believe it's now entirely settled. It seemed to me useful to write about a few headphones with which it works some magic. I grabbed the Vali right away principally to see if it might make Patty Griffin's music listenable. Most of her stuff has what I've come to associate with a hard digital edge to the sound; and, well, much of her music is wonderful, and she sings it remarkably. So, after reading Purrin's review, I sprung for the Vali.
Short story: the Vali pretty much did what I hoped it would do: which for the practical-minded means it probably is manipulating the original sound. But who cares. The unexpected result was that the Vali makes some headphones work better with a lot of music. I find the sound, by the way, pretty much how Purrin describes it. In switching back and forth between Asgard 1 (and accounting in my memory for the sound of Asgard 2, which went away with my son to his dorm room), the Vali added air, often gave voices more character, and often made details more musical, more tonally complete. It gave a pretty subtle sense of lightening, not darkening the sound, while adding depth to the presentation.
And, with quite a bit of the music I listen to, it made my TH-900s better headphones. These are my favorite headphones at the moment: though one does listen through a pretty hefty bass and--from my perspective--slightly recessed mids. With the Vali, the bass often seems better integrated and the mids seem to land more precisely where they need to be. (Even without the Vali, I find the 900s closer to the illusion of live music, as well as music from my living room speakers. They just seem more visceral, and more apt to ravish one with the sound.) Purrin writes that he could call it a day with the Vali and the Abyss, and at the moment I'm feeling that with the 900s and the Vali (understanding there's always something just a little better lurking somewhere down the line.) So, in thinking about a TOTL system, the Vali starts to make some headphone purchases--the 900s, the HD 800s etc--start to seem much more reasonable. The Vali/Fostex combination is, to my taste, better than any set-up I heard at the last LA meet.
The Vali was also terrific with the AKG Q701s. In fact, its effect was much more dramatic than upon the TH 900s. I hardly ever listen to these, but every so often I pull them out for their ability to isolate vocal and musical lines. Complex harmonies are often just fun, and remarkably engaging through these headphones. But, as everyone who has some iteration of the 701s is aware of, the sound is lean (I don't find it bright or washed out, just not as rich as it should be), the bass has very little impact, and it sometimes feels that one is listening to toy instruments. With the Vali, everything gained richer tone: with these there wasn't exactly a sense of lightening or darkening; just the sense that the sounds were more developed and significantly more expressive. Vocals were as engaging as I've heard--if not as rich as those through Audezes or the TH 900s. So, the Vali, at $119 seems to me almost a necessary complement for the 701 family: not from a lush tube sound that changes the character of the headphone; but with a natural infusion of overtones and undertones to the music. I imagine, if one can live without bass impact, that one could live very, very happily with the pairing into the future.
As to other headphones on hand: The Vali paired extraordinarily well with the Beyer DT 1350s (I've got a decent pair). As with the TH-900s there was a sense of adding air and slightly lightening the sound: all to the good. The Vali also was excellent with the Aedle VK-1s (an exceptionally good sounding portable): though I feel the Aedles are equally well served by both generations of the Asgard.
Phew. For $119? Ridiculous.
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Thanks for posting up your thoughts and impressions jrb! It's appreciated.
It's great to hear you are enjoying the Vali!
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Thank you for your comments jrb. I was primarily hoping the Vali to be a good match for the HD800, but to see it also do well with the TH900 despite their 25 ohm impedance makes me wonder if this is the last amp I'll buy.
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Great write-up, jrb! I also have a question for you: how much background hiss is there on the Q701s with the Vali? I like to listen rather quiet-ish so background noise really gets to me.
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Great write-up, jrb! I also have a question for you: how much background hiss is there on the Q701s with the Vali? I like to listen rather quiet-ish so background noise really gets to me.
As I write this, I'm listening to the 701s and believe I really undersold how exceptional the combination of Vali and Q701 is. It's sensational. (Going back to edit.) I didn't listen to acoustic material with the 701s before I wrote the response above. I'm listening now. Wow. And, with acoustic recordings from Greg Brown and Emmylou Harris, turned up louder than I'd normally listen, I hear no hiss.
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Great write-up, jrb! I also have a question for you: how much background hiss is there on the Q701s with the Vali? I like to listen rather quiet-ish so background noise really gets to me.
As I write this, I'm listening to the 701s and believe I really undersold how exceptional the combination of Vali and Q701 is. It's sensational. (Going back to edit.) I didn't listen to acoustic material with the 701s before I wrote the response above. I'm listening now. Wow. And, with acoustic recordings from Greg Brown and Emmylou Harris, turned up louder than I'd normally listen, I hear no hiss.
Thanks for the quick reply! And thanks for the info too: that seals the deal for me. I shall be ordering one straight away.
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Thanks for posting jrb. I assume no issues with noise on the Vali with TH900? The TH900 tend to be more sensitive than most other headphones.
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Thanks for posting jrb. I assume no issues with noise on the Vali with TH900? The TH900 tend to be more sensitive than most other headphones.
Nope, no noise issues with the TH900. I thought about it before I ordered, but for a $119 amp that was likely to work with other phones, I just went ahead. I was actually a little more concerned about a possible impedance mismatch--I have only a small grasp of the science of this. As I wrote, I was looking to tame the digital dragons on Patty Griffin's recordings, and the surprise was how well the Vali seems to fit with the TH 900. (I expected a pretty good fit with the AKGs: though not nearly as good as it turned out to be.)
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This is my first tube device, and the microphonics really freaked me out at first. I see Schiit addressed that point directly on the product page, though, so it's all good.
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What level of microphonics is normal for the Vali? I've had the Vali for most of today.. I'll comment on the sound soon (initial impressions: VERY impressive.. purrin really nailed it with his descriptions).. I've mounted the rubber feet and when I touch (yes, touch) the volume knob, some of that infamous, high pitched microphonic ringing knocks about (at a fairly low, but quite audible level). Yes it subsides after a short period of time, but.. is this degree of sensitivity normal/expected?
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That's about how it is for me. Just imagine if you weren't aware of it at all and immediately put headphones on after plugging them in. The ringing...
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Thanks for posting jrb. I assume no issues with noise on the Vali with TH900? The TH900 tend to be more sensitive than most other headphones.
If they share a little DNA with their Denon brothers I'm not surprised... the D7000 always amazed me at how well it seemed to do with amps that it should have sucked with if you simply looked at the impedance. They surprisingly got along with almost anything.
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Fired up my Vali today. Quickly compared it with my AGD Master 6. Amazingly,
I preferred the Vali over the M6 on some tracks*. Probably due to the tube goodness. I could live with either as my primary amp for my open D7000's. This bodes well for my upcoming re-purchase of the TH900.
*After closer listening, I think the two amps are very close in SQ with the Denons other than the M6 being dead silent between tracks.
On the HE400's it's a different story however. I preferred the M6 for every track.
Regarding the high pitch microphonics, I think my Vali is an extreme example of this unfortunately. Even the lightest touch induces moderately loud ringing that slowly reduces somewhat, but not enough to be forgettable unless you really crank the volume. In short amount of time, things have improved drastically. I'm tip-toeing around the components more, but now the ringing is dissipating much faster now, and to indiscernible levels. I'm a happy camper now.
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This amp is really fantastic. Listening to it is addictive, I find it very hard to take the headphones off again ...
Microphonics are no real problem with my unit. I mean, it is there, but not troublesome. Everybody knew in advance about this issue and the questionable synergy with low-impedance setups. And there are still people over at the other forum that seem surprised by it and consider it as the big secret that has just been revealed. Just ridiculous.
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The microphonics are no big deal. It's not like I dance with the amp in my hands or use it as some sort of bongo while listening to music. It just scared the crap out of me when I plugged my headphones on and put them on my head. Since then, I've learned to turn the volume with a very light touch, and it causes little to no ringing. Of course, I can't listen as soon as the headphones are plugged in, but I'm assuming we aren't all toddlers and have enough patience to wait a minute for the ringing to stop.
The Tascam TH-02 definitely has an audible noise floor with the Vali. Have not yet tried the He-500 or Mad Dog, but I'm assuming they'll be quieter. No real issue while listening either way.
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I posted this over at HF; my attempt to calm the tube noobs. If it helps anyone here new to tubes...
"Tube noobs ;) This is a very common occurrence with small signal tubes/designs. Just check out the market for tube dampeners. I remember when I tracked down my first pair of pinched-waist NOS tubes; if I looked at them too long they'd ring. Couldn't take them out though - sonically. It's my believe that just a smidge of microphonics contributes a bit to a sense of 'air'. This mechanical vibration/distortion can oscillate (not a good thing) or distract when it's too much, but Vali is walking the edge just fine. Not to mention that whole "void the warranty" thing if you open her up.
If the ringing settles down, just enjoy the phenomenal sound of this little amp. If it doesn't, ask Jason to swap them out. Dampening the mechanical structure of the amp is fine, but I wouldn't try to dampen the tubes themselves. Just my preference, but I like what a tube on the edge brings."
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Yeah. I saw that. Good post. Sort of didn't realize how many people haven't been exposed to tube gear yet.
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Yep. This little thing is gonna move like crazy and give Jason and crew a bit more gray hair.
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I posted this over at HF; my attempt to calm the tube noobs. If it helps anyone here new to tubes...
Should have told them all to run to the hardware store and pick up a can of roof sealant and spray the inside of the amp to dampen it...
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heh
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Kind of like ALO does?
(http://www.headfonia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/alo_continental_03.jpg)
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"special care and love goes into the construction of every amp..."
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I think that was Mike.
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Ah, so it was bukkake Thursday at the headphonia office again.
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Ah, so it was bukkake Thursday at the headphonia office again.
LOL. That's what it feels like whenever I read any of headphonia's articles.
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Well, at least he seems to have recanted some of his prior gushy comments on the HD700.
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"special care and love goes into the construction of every amp..."
I almost busted out laughing when I saw that picture. I'm really mature.
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It seems to me that there may be several reasons that people attribute “warmth” to a component:
1. Tonality has enough/extra bass according to the listener’s perception of neutral (or compared to another component)
2. Overall sound is not “thin”, possibly due to:
a. decay or additional harmonics (when bad = “smearing”, when good = what people call “inner warmth”?)
b. presence of midbass hump (this can also cause #1)
c. slow bass or bass slower/richer/bloomy in relation to the upper mids/treble
3. Presentation that “rolls off” the top
Some “tubey” amps are doing #2 (in the not-so-good ways) and/or #3 (rolling off the top) plus offering low resolution and low dynamic capability. If a tube amp immediately seems "warm" and is very noticeable, there is a good chance that it may be doing too much and won't be good over time.
In the case of the Vali, I think it presents just that <bit> of #2 as slight harmonics throughout the FR for a “sweetness” that is not “dry/analytical” but pleasing. The performance of the upper mids/treble and quality of the attack still gives the sense of detail and extension while the bass does not “cloud” the rest of the FR (not superficially boosted).
Directly compared to the Magni, the Vali also has just <slightly> less resolution which ameliorates some of the sibilant “whistling” in the HD800 with difficult tracks. This combo in surprisingly good balance makes the Vali so great with HD800. (Whether using PWD or $100 Pure i20 DAC.)
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I agree, the vali has a little bit of #2 that makes it a very pleasing combo with the nodded hd800s. The treble is smooth, but not withdrawn at all. My vali has about 25ish hours burn in so far,but I am enjoying this little $119 amp.
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It's funny--we were all in the shop on Sunday, to get a head start on Vali orders. Which meant I was doing sound checks. Somehow a Magni got mixed in with the Valis. I didn't notice, but when the relay triggered and the music started, I immediately thought, "Hmm, that's a weird-sounding Vali. Kinda 'dead.' But it doesn't ring..." Then my brain kicked in, I looked down and saw the three rows of holes, and started laughing.
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Is anybody else experiencing a very high noise floor with HD800s? I don't mind the tube microphonics - I can wait out the ringing/not change the volume, but the hiss coming out of the amp almost drowns out quiet music for me.
On my DT880-600s and LCD2.2s the hiss is much less noticible, as is the ringing (although both still present), so I suppose the HD800s are just a bit too sensitive for the amp?
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Is anybody else experiencing a very high noise floor with HD800s? I don't mind the tube microphonics - I can wait out the ringing/not change the volume, but the hiss coming out of the amp almost drowns out quiet music for me.
On my DT880-600s and LCD2.2s the hiss is much less noticible, as is the ringing (although both still present), so I suppose the HD800s are just a bit too sensitive for the amp?
That's odd and doesn't sound right. What source are you using? Try another source. It's possible something is not right.
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Is anybody else experiencing a very high noise floor with HD800s? I don't mind the tube microphonics - I can wait out the ringing/not change the volume, but the hiss coming out of the amp almost drowns out quiet music for me.
On my DT880-600s and LCD2.2s the hiss is much less noticible, as is the ringing (although both still present), so I suppose the HD800s are just a bit too sensitive for the amp?
That's odd and doesn't sound right. What source are you using? Try another source. It's possible something is not right.
Doesn't matter what the source is. Even with no source plugged in there is still a very audible hiss - the kind you would hear with sensitive IEMs out of a powerful amp. I should amend my previous statement, as "drowns out" is a bit of hyperbole, but it is audible when listening to music. I'm just curious if my unit is especially noisy, or if this is the noise floor the amp works at for HD800s. Other than the hiss, the amp sounds great - nothing audibly wrong with it.
I'll leave it running for another 24 hours to see if the hiss decreases - I just unpacked the thing today.
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Sounds like something is definitely wrong. Both channels?
If you said Grados... but that should NOT be happening with the HD800s. Call Schiit for tech support / RMA.
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with a monotone timbre across all the instruments.
This is exactly the quality that I experience from the Vali - it's mysterious to me that I have yet to see anyone else report it. I checked again on a second day, with different headphones and it definitely has this quality.
l listen to the same recordings with the same headphones on the Bellari HA-540 Class-A hybrid with Siemens early 60's 12AX7 and the "monotone timbre" is not there, you can hear the harmonic quality of each instrument. Admittedly the Bellari is three times the price of the Vali, so I get the impression that Schiit did know what the Vali was worth.
(I'll keep this report short by just making more details available by request.)
By the way, I do hear the same high level of detail mentioned by others, which makes the amp interesting to use, as it provides a different perspective on a recording, sort of like a very high resolution black-and-white photo.
(Oh, and I don't currently have any high impedance headphones, so it is possible that this report only applies to low impedance headphones. Possible - but I think unlikely.)
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with a monotone timbre across all the instruments.
This is exactly the quality that I experience from the Vali - it's mysterious to me that I have yet to see anyone else report it. I checked again on a second day, with different headphones and it definitely has this quality.
l listen to the same recordings with the same headphones on the Bellari HA-540 Class-A hybrid with Siemens early 60's 12AX7 and the "monotone timbre" is not there, you can hear the harmonic quality of each instrument. Admittedly the Bellari is three times the price of the Vali, so I get the impression that Schiit did know what the Vali was worth.
(I'll keep this report short by just making more details available by request.)
By the way, I do hear the same high level of detail mentioned by others, which makes the amp interesting to use, as it provides a different perspective on a recording, sort of like a very high resolution black-and-white photo.
(Oh, and I don't currently have any high impedance headphones, so it is possible that this report only applies to low impedance headphones. Possible - but I think unlikely.)
Are you familiar with what the current standard of mainstream solid state amps sound like? Could be you are already accustomed to what a high end tube amp done right sounds like so I'm not sure what you might have been expecting relatively speaking. Yes the Vali is not as good as the Super7, BA, 445, 2A4x4, Leviathan, Stratus, WA5, Apex Teton, Manley 300B. The Vali is an introduction to tubes done right for those that don't know about inner resolution and microdynamics from using many current SS amps. The Vali is not a $129 world killer. But it does embarass many tube and SS amps in the multi-thousand buck range that are simply not worth their price.
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I am not really feeling it with the Vali and HE-500 (with jergpads...Metrum Quad as DAC). It's as though it has good extension down low and has clearly defined bass, but the overall sound was just lacking weight. It seemed to handle most everything else pretty well. Great with details (all the same benefits I mentioned with the Tascam, really). Granted, I had only heard the HE-500 from my vintage Sansui receiver before, and going back to the Sansui really did bring that extra bit of life to the HE-500.
I'll have to try it with my other DACs before saying this is definitive for me, though.
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with a monotone timbre across all the instruments.
This is exactly the quality that I experience from the Vali - it's mysterious to me that I have yet to see anyone else report it. I checked again on a second day, with different headphones and it definitely has this quality.
I think it's more that we more willing to overlook this because of the price. With the Vali, there's a uniformity of timbre which sounds like the 6088 piggybacked on a Magni. If you've heard the Magni, that amp possesses a certain timbral quality which strongly imprints itself throughout the treble. The extent of this effect depended upon the DAC I used. The NOS, ladder DACs, or even the Gungnir with their deeper tone density, helps to overcome this nature.
I am not really feeling it with the Vali and HE-500 (with jergpads...Metrum Quad as DAC). It's as though it has good extension down low and has clearly defined bass, but the overall sound was just lacking weight.
Too flabby and soft?
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I'm not sure I would call it flabby, but it definitely has a softer touch to it. Makes it sound a tiny bit brighter overall as well in combination with what the Vali already does. It has a lot more "authority" through the Sansui. I'm going to try it with some other DACs and amps as well.
BTW, I started this hobby with car audio (12" subs) and a bit of home audio (ported, inexpensive 8" subs) before headphones. My definition of flabby bass is probably relatively skewed because of this and also probably explains why I don't mind and sometimes even prefer a tiny bit of extra bass.
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IME, a decent number of tube solutions are not the best at driving tougher orthos in general. I'd consider the HE500 in that group.
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Interesting, I'll have to keep that in mind.
BTW, is it always the case that if a HPO has a high output impedance (relative to HP's impedance) and the HP itself has a rise or hump somewhere in its impedance curve that the FR will be boosted in that location? I know I've seen this with Sennheisers and their bass response, but I did not know if that always applied to all headphones and if it only or mostly changed bass response. The question doesn't have anything to do with the HE-500, BTW.
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I haven't been following the Vali threads, so forgive me if this has been covered. I initially bitched about not being hooked on microphonics, but said to myself just ignore it and enjoy the sound. This proved harder in practice to do. The effects seemed more pronounced than others were reporting. I found myself not using the amp because of this. Today I had time to pop the hood and see if I could do something about it. To my surprise, the tubes were raised up completely off their dampening beds to about a 45 degree angle. It must have been a rough ride to NY. With the tubes back in position to where they are supposed to be, the microphonics are next to nothing now. I can hit my desk and even change the volume on the fly without any issues. What a difference.
Anyway, with that issue at bay, I'm enjoying the Vali more than ever. Please excuse the gratuitous photo
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/3/32/240x240px-LM-322521ce_photo7.jpeg)
The Vali has replaced my AGD Master 6 for exclusive duty with my newly revised open D7000's. It's just so damn punchy/dynamic or whatever you want to call it. Very clear, with a lot of krill to boot. I found myself listening completely through my test tracks which almost never happens. It beckons use with your best source and best cans. :)p6
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^Vertical! Genius. I'm gonna open mine up, check tubes and mount the thing vertically on the side of my nightstand.
Instead of getting wireless RS220, I can mount the Magni on my gal's nightstand. She is set up with HD600/Magni to catch up on crime dramas while I am using HD800 (but running long wires to jump over).
Scheet-metal mounting bracket...
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I haven't been following the Vali threads, so forgive me if this has been covered. I initially bitched about not being hooked on microphonics, but said to myself just ignore it and enjoy the sound. This proved harder in practice to do. The effects seemed more pronounced than others were reporting. I found myself not using the amp because of this. Today I had time to pop the hood and see if I could do something about it. To my surprise, the tubes were raised up completely off their dampening beds to about a 45 degree angle. It must have been a rough ride to NY. With the tubes back in position to where they are supposed to be, the microphonics are next to nothing now. I can hit my desk and even change the volume on the fly without any issues. What a difference.
...
Anyway, with that issue at bay, I'm enjoying the Vali more than ever.
The Vali has replaced my AGD Master 6 for exclusive duty with my newly revised open D7000's. It's just so damn punchy/dynamic or whatever you want to call it. Very clear, with a lot of krill to boot. I found myself listening completely through my test tracks which almost never happens. It beckons use with your best source and best cans. :)p6
Hey lmswjm, thanks much!! Did the same thing and agree- even some noise floor with HD800 went away. I can update my post to give you some due if you would like...here are my pics and help in the Vali thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/2055#post_10048012).
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Sweet, glad it worked out. I see there was a little HF hysteria there about it.
Bill
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The only tidbit I'd like to add is that I didn't just push them vertically down. I also pushed the tubes in a horizontal direction into the leads to create a slight bend. The idea is to minimize the chance of the tubes springing back up and maybe even achieve better contact with the dampeners. I wasn't shy with this process, the tube leads seem hardy enough.
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My Vali arrived today! Rough passage; Fedex dropped it off at a neighbors and it took a bit to track down. It's good to hear it again - it's very much like I remember it from RMAF. Within the next week or so, I'll do a mini review comparing it with a Crack with Speedball, and a Torpedo. I'm listening with my T90's with Vali being fed from my custom AK DAC. This DAC is ridiculously resolving (I've paid an absurd level of attention to power supplies, isolation, etc.), and Vali keeps up just fine.
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Woohoo, my Vali+Modi arrived! Well, they arrived yesterday, but I'm only listening to them now. I can't comment on the sound much as I only have about ten minutes listening time (and am rather new to high-quality audio), but I definitely hear an increase in bass impact and detail with my Q701s over my previous amp+dac, the Fiio e07k, and the soundstage is also somewhat... different.
The microphonics are quite minor: I can adjust the volume without any noise whatsoever, and even the ringing caused by plugging in the headphones dissipated cOmpletely after about twenty seconds. On the other hand there is an audible hissing sound (not dependant on volume) when the amp is on, though I am hopeful that this will decrease with a little more burn in as it seems to have lessened somewhat after a few hours of warm up without anything playing
In conclusion I'd like to thank you all for your insights and opinions, and I hope to lurk my way to many more well-informed purchases!
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Woohoo, my Vali+Modi arrived! Well, they arrived yesterday, but I'm only listening to them now. I can't comment on the sound much as I only have about ten minutes listening time (and am rather new to high-quality audio), but I definitely hear an increase in bass impact and detail with my Q701s over my previous amp+dac, the Fiio e07k, and the soundstage is also somewhat... different.
The microphonics are quite minor: I can adjust the volume without any noise whatsoever, and even the ringing caused by plugging in the headphones dissipated cOmpletely after about twenty seconds. On the other hand there is an audible hissing sound (not dependant on volume) when the amp is on, though I am hopeful that this will decrease with a little more burn in as it seems to have lessened somewhat after a few hours of warm up without anything playing
In conclusion I'd like to thank you all for your insights and opinions, and I hope to lurk my way to many more well-informed purchases!
If it's hissing with Q701s, you may have bad tubes. Try with another source or headphones to make sure. If this continues, contact Schiit via e-mail. They will take care of you.
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If it's hissing with Q701s, you may have bad tubes. Try with another source or headphones to make sure. If this continues, contact Schiit via e-mail. They will take care of you.
Thanks for the help! Vali still hisses regardless of source. The noise isn't that intrusive with Q701s, but with M50s it's absolutely un-listenable (sounds kind of like a plane taking off, only quieter).
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My Vali arrived today! Rough passage; Fedex dropped it off at a neighbors and it took a bit to track down. It's good to hear it again - it's very much like I remember it from RMAF. Within the next week or so, I'll do a mini review comparing it with a Crack with Speedball, and a Torpedo. I'm listening with my T90's with Vali being fed from my custom AK DAC. This DAC is ridiculously resolving (I've paid an absurd level of attention to power supplies, isolation, etc.), and Vali keeps up just fine.
I love to get your thoughts comparing it to a pimped CTH as well if you have time Mike.
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@MR... looking forward to it.
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Yep, will do mates. I loaned out my pimped CTH, but I'll see it back by end of the month. That'll give Vali plenty of time to break in.
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so yeah I got a Vali here atm, it's damn good. noise floor too high for my IEMs but damn good.
could report a bit more later when I've had more time with it
so far I've heard it with LCD-2, HD650 and Mad Dogs 3.2 with Alpha Pads. and RE-600 but noise...
good stuff. I want one.
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so yeah I got a Vali here atm, it's damn good. noise floor too high for my IEMs but damn good.
could report a bit more later when I've had more time with it
so far I've heard it with LCD-2, HD650 and Mad Dogs 3.2 with Alpha Pads. and RE-600 but noise...
good stuff. I want one.
Nice.. I've had one for a few weeks now.. it's a wonderful amp.. especially with the 650. I've got an LCD-2 coming.. how did you find Vali to pair with the LCD-2? I'm interested in driver control and dynamics. I'm sure it did a lot of things right, but what areas did you find the pairing as less than impressive?
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I felt that the bass on the LCD-2 has seen better days than pairing it with the Vali. it wasn't bad, everything else was pretty fantastic, but something wasn't really right. not as controlled as I like it perhaps?
some other impressions:
wow. HD650 sound pretty happy and lively paired with it, note that I am comparing it to the Schiit Magni which isn't the best but... I can't say I've heard them sound much better elsewhere. bass is the only thing I find to be a bit less nice with the Vali, but not by a lot. I believe it does need some warm-up time though. not sure how long but definitely sounded better even when A/B'ing after it had been on for a while.
I was a bit surprised to find that it isn't lacking bite in upper mids though, maybe even more so than the Magni but I... yeah I can't really say. close call?
if only the Vali worked well with my IEMs... then I'd be all over it.
I would however not personally pair it with LCD-2 as I believe they might deserve better. :p the bass is where the LCD-2 shines and take away from that and you got less impressive sound, to me
it gets a Gold Star rating! value is superb and it is soo engaging and lively without being mush, yay. want to hear all the cool toob amps now.
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I felt that the bass on the LCD-2 has seen better days than pairing it with the Vali. it wasn't bad, everything else was pretty fantastic, but something wasn't really right. not as controlled as I like it perhaps?
some other impressions:
wow. HD650 sound pretty happy and lively paired with it, note that I am comparing it to the Schiit Magni which isn't the best but... I can't say I've heard them sound much better elsewhere. bass is the only thing I find to be a bit less nice with the Vali, but not by a lot. I believe it does need some warm-up time though. not sure how long but definitely sounded better even when A/B'ing after it had been on for a while.
I was a bit surprised to find that it isn't lacking bite in upper mids though, maybe even more so than the Magni but I... yeah I can't really say. close call?
if only the Vali worked well with my IEMs... then I'd be all over it.
I would however not personally pair it with LCD-2 as I believe they might deserve better. :p the bass is where the LCD-2 shines and take away from that and you got less impressive sound, to me
it gets a Gold Star rating! value is superb and it is soo engaging and lively without being mush, yay. want to hear all the cool toob amps now.
Nice.. my LCD-2 arrived today.. and I wholeheartedly agree with your opinions on how the Vali pairs with the LCD-2. The combo sounds good.. it's quite serviceable.. but the Vali is not something that takes advantage of everything the LCD-2 seems capable of. It might be a case of the Vali really doing nothing wrong more than doing something(s) exceptionally well. The Vali's treble is an ace in the hole w/ the LCD-2, IME so far. It isn't bright or spotlight.. but it's got a presence, tonal balance, and and texturing about it that seems to work very well with the Vali.
As you mentioned, my chief issue with the Vali is that it doesn't seem to have the 'balls' to provide the absolute control that the LCD-2 (and some other moderately demanding planars like the HE-500) deserves. I switched over to the Project Ember and am getting a better idea of what the LCD-2 is capable of with more current driving it.
Regarding the 650.. yep, it's a great combo with the Vali.. if you want to hear the 650 sound even better, get a SB'ed Crack. The Crack will sound a bit more laid back vs the Vali.. but the Crack offers better stage depth, instrument separation, among other things. All that being said, I don't anything at $120 touches the Vali when it comes to driving the 650. Outside of the Crack, the Vali is probably one of my favorite tube amps for the 650.
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My Vali came in today and I've spent about two hours with it and I've used an LCD2, HD650s and the Q701. I wasn't too impressed with the HD650s on the Vali at all to be honest. I thought the LCD2 sounded better on it as well as the Q701. I'm using it with a Perfectwave MKII.
My initial listening impressions are that the 650s sound under powered, I liked the LCD2 and the Q701. I was really enjoying Bob Marley and some Grateful Dead (I love the Dead with the Q701).
I expected the 650 to sound better on it with all the chatter on HF with that combo but overall I'm happy so far with the purchase itself.
I'm going to spend more time with it tonight.
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I wish I could see pics of the different drivers to correlate the 650s that sound good and sound bad with the Vali. Reminds me of the same 650 chatter that has always been going on even with other amps. Not saying the Vali is ideal for the 650, just that there are very real damping differences between 650s that could make these perceived differences even greater.
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I like the HD650 from the Vali. There's better soundstage depth compared to balanced from the Mjolnir and width is traded for a cohesive centre focused presentation. The Vali lessens the 3 blob stage synonymous with the HD650 and a reverb like quality helps to smooth out the grain in the upper mids evident through the MJ. The biggest tradeoff is in the lower regions, where the control exerted by the MJ is sacrificed for one-note bass bloom. Despite this, the Vali/HD650 synergy is a compelling one imo. The depth and liquidity accentuates the textures and layers. The presentation is enveloping and draws me in. It's easy to forgive a flabby bottom end in this instance.
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I very much enjoy the HD650 + Vali combo. My HD650s are brand new straight from Senn from the $271 deal. I have the silver drivers.
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My Vali arrived today! Rough passage; Fedex dropped it off at a neighbors and it took a bit to track down. It's good to hear it again - it's very much like I remember it from RMAF. Within the next week or so, I'll do a mini review comparing it with a Crack with Speedball, and a Torpedo. I'm listening with my T90's with Vali being fed from my custom AK DAC. This DAC is ridiculously resolving (I've paid an absurd level of attention to power supplies, isolation, etc.), and Vali keeps up just fine.
Were you ever able to compare the Vali, Crack, and Torpedo? I'd be curious to know how they stack up.
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Some quick impressions; I got a Vali in about a month ago and just sold my Mjolnir after having compared them during that time. The headphones I used them a lot with were a Paradox, HD580 and Grubhai's modded RP18. I liked the Vali's mids far more than the Mjolnir's, though I did feel that the Mjolnir had tighter bass and a wider sound. The reason I sold the Mjolnir was more for convenience, since I didn't have enough desk space for it and it was anything but easy to move around.
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Were you ever able to compare the Vali, Crack, and Torpedo? I'd be curious to know how they stack up.
I would like to know how the Vali stacks up with the bottlehead crack as well (I use HD650's)
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To me I was pretty surprised how the vali sounded so similar to my woo wa7..
Main difference was noise floor and noticeable extra power from the wa7 with the better tubes I might add.
So I label my vali as a baby woo.
Smaller in dynamics mainly
Then I sold it as I didn't use it much only because I attained the woo wa7 unexpectedly.
If they didn't have that noise floor lower, I would have sold my wa7 (!)
You can probably match vali for less than a wa7, in the hundreds, or different flavor, but sound clarity is excellent.
I was wondering if a better power supply can give it a little boost to dynamics.
They should make vali mods :)
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Barely an hour into Vali, wow best $119 I've ever spent! First purchase based on what I read on this site and won't be the last.
I'm most impressed by how it drives my HD800. Normally I listen to them only on my ZDSE, and I didn't like them with Centrance. They are more than decent on this little amp. Its noise floor is a bit high for the TH900 but once playing it's fine. Grado HF2 sounds pretty good on it too. All in all, a great addition for my secondary rig.
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To me I was pretty surprised how the vali sounded so similar to my woo wa7..
Main difference was noise floor and noticeable extra power from the wa7 with the better tubes I might add.
So I label my vali as a baby woo.
Smaller in dynamics mainly
Then I sold it as I didn't use it much only because I attained the woo wa7 unexpectedly.
If they didn't have that noise floor lower, I would have sold my wa7 (!)
You can probably match vali for less than a wa7, in the hundreds, or different flavor, but sound clarity is excellent.
I was wondering if a better power supply can give it a little boost to dynamics.
They should make vali mods :)
Yep. I've referred to the Vali as a baby Woo too, after briefly owning the overrated WA5LE.
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Will this paired well with He560?
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I'm increasingly surprised (and gratified) by the versatility of the Vali. HD 800? Not an issue. The planars in general? No problem. Pairing it with the Gungnir (from the Bifrost Uber) gives it that additional refinement and filling out of sound.
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Finally pulled the trigger on this.
Sold my Asgard 1 for $135, so I basically got paid $6 to trade my Asgard 1 for this.
First impressions: I should be arrested...feel a little guilty selling my Asgard 1 to someone when they should have spent their money on a Vali of their own. In my defense, I had no idea. :)p13
Nice pairing with the 400i. Compared to the Asgard, the first thing that strikes me is that the sound is a bit more 3D/holographic. Soundstage is not a strength of the 400i, but it seems that the Vali does them more favors in that department than the Asgard did.
Plenty of power...happy listening for me at the 10 o'clock position.
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How many of you guys are using the rubber feet that come with the amp?
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I use the rubber feet on all the schiit stuff I've bought.
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Been using this little guy for a while - anyone else having a slight channel imbalance develop over time? I'm up to a ~2 dB deficit by ear on the left channel.
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It's funny--we were all in the shop on Sunday, to get a head start on Vali orders. Which meant I was doing sound checks. Somehow a Magni got mixed in with the Valis. I didn't notice, but when the relay triggered and the music started, I immediately thought, "Hmm, that's a weird-sounding Vali. Kinda 'dead.' But it doesn't ring..." Then my brain kicked in, I looked down and saw the three rows of holes, and started laughing.
Ironically, when I received my Vali, 1.5 years after the quoted post, the box actually contained a first-gen Magni, notwithstanding the Orange "Vali"
sticker on the box. Schiit took care of it, of course, but still kinda twilight zoneish.
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Sweet, glad it worked out. I see there was a little HF hysteria there about it.
Bill
HF hysteria, brought to you by the department of redundancy department.