CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone, IEM, and Other Audio Related Discussion => Topic started by: music_4321 on April 11, 2015, 12:43:27 AM
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First things first: NEVER been a fan of JH Audio (and even less so of Heir and/or Noble Audio). Also was never a fan of the drivers wars—I love the ER-4S (single BA), FitEar F111 (single BA), LAB I (dual BA), UERM (triple BA), the hybrid (single DD + dual BA) K3003, EX800 (single DD), Piano Forte IX (single DD) the cheapo Zero Audio Tenore (single DD), Rockets (single DD) and, of course, the HD800 & HD600. Of those, my favourites, FWIW, are the LAB I, UERM, PF IX, EX800, K3003 & HD800.
Seeing that both the Angie & Layla were being described as dead flat/neutral, reference grade phones, and after loving the UERMs so much, I was naturally interested in the Angie & Layla, but regardless of price (though price did indeed play a part) I was more drawn to the Angie.
Got the Angie (universal) today. After a cursory listen (an hour or so), I have to say that I am impressed, and very pleasantly surprised.
The Angie, to these ears, edges out the UERM, particularly in the treble department, where the latter sounds a bit more peaky/less refined, the former being more linear in the upper registers, and more natural sounding; in fact, the Angie's treble is simply superb — don't think I've ever heard treble done so well in any of the phones I've heard.
There appears to be a bit more mid-bass on the UERM (though wonderfully and very tastefully done, I have to say), but my ears tell me the Angie is more linear, with excellent extension in the low end so when the bass dial is turned up the midrange is virtually unaffected. Basically the tonal balance of the Angie is EXCELLENT.
The midrange is stunning.
When the Angie's bass dial is turned all the way up, these never sound bass-heavy at all but, actually, they are (surprisingly) very satisfying (bassheads definitely should look elsewhere), but I personally would not want any more bass. On the lowest setting, though, the Angie is decidedly rather bass-light, at least compared to the UERM.
Speed is excellent, as is dynamics on this phone; detail retrieval is impressive without them being treble happy/enhanced to appear detailed.
After 20 min or so, I started using the Angies on balanced mode (doubt there's much difference between balanced and SE—takes too long to swap cables and do not trust my ears to tell me whether there's indeed a noticeable sonic difference or not…but will still A/B both at a later stage), always with the AK240 (a DAP I paid "top dollar" for [hate that expression!] mostly for the absolutely brilliant volume knob [genius, actually], superb UI & onboard memory).
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How is the fit? Easy to get a comfortable seal? What about weight; are they heavy?
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That was one of a few demos that got away from me at Canjam. Next time then.
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In my short demo of the two at a show i found myself actually preferring the Angie. It seems to have the epic larger than life soundstage of my Roxannes yet a much more balanced sound signature, as i find the Roxanne too dark and bassy. That being said i think the universal fit versions are just silly due to size, i think it would be too easy to lose the seal, especially if any movement was involved. This was due to the fact the body of the earphone didn't actually sit in my ear, it was just suspended out of my ear.
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How is the fit? Easy to get a comfortable seal? What about weight; are they heavy?
Fit, in my case, is fine and somewhat reminiscent of the TG 334, but the Angies are a little more ergonomic, the ear-guides, unlike those of the FitEars, actually do help to allow the earpieces to sit properly. The shells do stick out, but nothing that worries this very good-looking sparrow.
Seal is pretty good (tried Spinfit tips but ended up settling for stock medium tips). And no, the earpieces aren't heavy at all.
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On this note, I must say I love my Laylas. They are as tonally correct as my modded HD800s. I know this is ridiculous but they are comparable to the HD800. Imagine a UIEM version of the HD800 with about the same level of detail extraction, with an expansive in ear soundstage (about 20% less than the HD800 but nonetheless extremely impressive for an IEM). It is a touch warmer than the HD800 and hence noticeably airier. I've been driving it out of my EC 445 and oh boy are they enjoyable.
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Haven't heard the Laylas myself, and my HD800s are stock, but I do easily find the Angie's tonal balance more correct; the treble really is exquisite — I can turn the volume up quite a bit and the Angies never sound harsh, piercing or strident. One does not need to crank it up to get first class detail retrieval, either. I already preferred the tonal balance of the UERMs over my Senns, but the Angies take that a step further in preference.
One thing with regards to the UERM vs the Angie is that the latter sounds more refined/polished/cleaner—the 8 drivers sound remarkably closer to the sound of a single driver, where the transitions between low, mid & high freqs are pretty seamless. Remarkable.
Having said that, I don't think that those who have the UERM 'need' the Angie, though for some obviously the sonic differences may be greater depending of how much they value these improvements in SQ. And then, of course, some, I guess, will still find the UERM the better phone.
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Sounds good. Only two concerns about what I'm hearing that maybe can set me straight. While the UERM treble does have its issues, is the Angie treble too forgiving? Some brass instruments and vocal recordings are sibilant, aggressive and jarring. If everything sounds pleasant then accuracy is off somewhere. Also, is the 'refinement' overly so? Is it able to still resolve all those inner harmonics and ambient details, reverbs and trailing decays? That was one reason I never got the JH13 due to that over polished plastic timbre from its freqphase thingy.
BTW, Roxannae sux, don't bother...
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"…is the Angie treble too forgiving?" —— No, it is not. It is, however, the most accurate/correct and resolving treble I've heard myself. Is there a phone that has better treble performance? Possibly, but of the phones I've heard myself, I haven't heard one that has treble of this calibre.
Obviously some things sound more pleasant than others, depending on recording/mastering and or performance by the artist. The Angie's treble has as close to accurate treble rendition as I've heard. The refinement I speak of refers to how clean and non-metallic it sounds, with a lack of artificiality that is remarkable.
"Is it able to still resolve all those inner harmonics and ambient details, reverbs and trailing decays?" —— In that regard, again, better than anything else I've heard.
As for the Roxannes, I was never really drawn to those right from the beginning; even less so after reading several impressions here and there. The only JH Audio product that has ever caught my eye, apart from the Angie, but never actually made me curious enough to pull the trigger, was the JH13.
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Sounds good. Only two concerns about what I'm hearing that maybe can set me straight. While the UERM treble does have its issues, is the Angie treble too forgiving? Some brass instruments and vocal recordings are sibilant, aggressive and jarring. If everything sounds pleasant then accuracy is off somewhere. Also, is the 'refinement' overly so? Is it able to still resolve all those inner harmonics and ambient details, reverbs and trailing decays? That was one reason I never got the JH13 due to that over polished plastic timbre from its freqphase thingy.
BTW, Roxannae sux, don't bother...
Can't speak for the Angie but the Layla is certainly not forgiving. When underdriven or fed with a sub-par source it can sound sibilant on poor recordings, that indeed is a common complaint by many folk, but it sounds spectacular on the EC 445. I compared the Roxanne head to head with the Layla and found the Layla to be more natural sounding, to have better extension both ends and a wide soundstage with HD800esque imaging.
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Hi,
I hope I can offer a helpful opinion about the Angie. I had a chance to hear the universal Angie and Layla together with my reference benchmark, the FitEar MH334 yesterday. Source/amp is AK120 II.
My taste is neutral with a little warmth and so far I don't really like most Jerry Harvey stuff, their treble is rough and bass loose and too punchy. Even the Roxanne has these problems and not worth the money.
Angie surprisingly is an exception. The treble characteristic is very smooth unlike the Roxanne or JH13 Freqphase but it's still forward, which makes vocal stand out. The bass is also very much tighter than your normal Jerry Harvey IEM even when the potentiometer is set at 2/3 full. However I feel that bass is a bit on the lean side, a bit like UE Reference Monitor or FitEar F111 type of bass. Detail level and separation are very good, better than the Reference Monitor and JH13 Freqphase.
Layla seems to have the same problems with Roxanne with loose bass and rough treble so I didn't spend too much time with them.
Comparing Angie with the MH334 I still feel that the FitEar remains a superior choice, with taller and more 3D imaging, more details all around and flatter sound but it also costs a lot more.
I also note that the Angie is quite big so fit can be a problem.
To summarize, I think Jerry Harvey has a winner with the Angie. If you're a fan of neutral sound signature then Angie is worth a try.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Jeremiah
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UERM & Angie
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See now that's interesting as the last FitEar 3xx (whichever it was) I heard wasn't quite in the same ballpark in technicalities as my current and demo uerms.I thought the treble was more fatiguing and bottom end too fat for my tastes. Also less resolving and spaced. Compared to a lesser set of uerms that went back I would agree to that though.
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^
The FitEar model you tried was the TG334; the one JeremiahS speaks about is the custom version of that, the MH334. Although I think it was overall a very good sounding phone, I ended up selling my TG334s because I found the bottom end a fit fatiguing after a short while, particularly, funnily enough, with well-mastered tracks/albums.
Now, I don't know whether the MH334 & TG334 have ever been marketed as, or considered, a reference phone (don't think they have). And, for what it's worth, well-known and highly regarded Japanese reviewer, Sasaki, who owned the MH334 before the universal came out, said he found the universal an improvement over the custom version (there was some new tech in (one of) the sound tubes of the universal, apparently, that caused this).
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I'd like to hear more about the Layla. Several people have noted a peaky treble and one person who listened without knowing the price said detail retrieval was average (and was quickly corrected by self-appointed brand defender that this couldn't be possible). Other people have said other things.
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Brief impression of the Layla from awhile ago: it had a low treble glare to it. A resonance perhaps, that range seemed a little uneven. I couldn't easily force it deeper with the tips on hand to check on that. Didn't have the screwdriver on hand to adjust the bass, but it didn't seem too unbalanced overall, whatever the bass was set to. Sticks clear out of the ear with its bulky shell, but at least it is light.
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Here's a track I've always had trouble enjoying fully; the reason being the recording itself isn't particularly great (it was intentionally recorded live in the studio). Depending on how coloured the phones I've tried this track with, enjoying it (and the rest of the excellent album) has always been a rather curious and trying affair (EQ'ing often being almost mandatory or, failing that, simply turning the volume down in many instances seemed necessary). The Angies really manage to pull it off and and make this track quite enjoyable as is (considering its sonic limitations). Due to the quality of the recording details aren't so easily perceived with most other phones, or said details would often be a bit jarring.
http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/New+Born/dI12L?src=5
A pretty good live version of the same track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=verrGuElWfI
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I'd like to hear more about the Layla. Several people have noted a peaky treble and one person who listened without knowing the price said detail retrieval was average (and was quickly corrected by self-appointed brand defender that this couldn't be possible). Other people have said other things.
Brief impression of the Layla from awhile ago: it had a low treble glare to it. A resonance perhaps, that range seemed a little uneven. I couldn't easily force it deeper with the tips on hand to check on that. Didn't have the screwdriver on hand to adjust the bass, but it didn't seem too unbalanced overall, whatever the bass was set to. Sticks clear out of the ear with its bulky shell, but at least it is light.
There are a lot of brief impressions in short auditions that I will not personally take into account. If I recall, NONE of those impressions have stated what sort of upstream gear the Laylas were driven with.
I am by no means a Layla fan-boy, but I happen to think that the bad press is unjustified and someone has to put things in perspective. I have the Layla, together with the HD800 and the SR009. This may sound insane, but I think the Laylas are, properly driven, comparable to the SR009 and HD800 in their top form.
The treble issues are similar to the HD800s in stock form but, unlike the HD800 which needs the mods, are completely ameliorated by having a proper setup. I have absolutely NO treble issues with the Layla on my big office rig (EC 4-45). The treble is more even and smoother than the HD800 (Anax modded).
The problem for most is that portable setups are incapable of delivering the source and amping requirements that the Layla needs for it to excel. As for the lack of resolution, it again depends on the front end. Impedance matching seems to matter, as when I stuck it into my Apex Teton the impedance mismatch removed any detail and collapsed the soundstage into itself.
What does this mean to the average buyer? I suppose if I were to get an UIEM for portable use ONLY, I would avoid the Layla. If I were to consider a closed headphone or IEM for use at home, which could also serve a dual purpose as a pair of IEMs on the go (not minding a corresponding loss in sound quality), I would certainly consider the Layla. So I do think it is not for everyone. It seems from what I've read that the Angies might be better as a portable solution.
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Hey Lojay (or anyone else), here's a suggestion: Why not start a Layla dedicated thread? There appears to be more interest in the Laylas than in the Angies. For people specifically looking for Angie impressions, it'd be good to have this thread, otherwise this might eventually turn into what we see on HF, where impressions of both phones are all over the place.
Of course mention of either IEM (and others) could be made in both threads, but I think it'd better to try and keep the focus here on the Angies.
(thanks for your posts, btw)
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Hey Lojay (or anyone else), here's a suggestion: Why not start a Layla dedicated thread? There appears to be more interest in the Laylas than in the Angies. For people specifically looking for Angie impressions, it'd be good to have this thread, otherwise this might eventually turn into what we see on HF, where impressions of both phones are all over the place.
Of course mention of either IEM (and others) could be made in both threads, but I think it'd better to try and keep the focus here on the Angies.
(thanks for your posts, btw)
Sorry for inadvertently hiijacking your thread...
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No worries, it's all good.
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Ok…erm, riiiiight… For someone who's NEVER been a fan of JH Audio (practically from day one—the original, and terribly crass, slogan for the JH13s in 2009, the extreme fanboyism seen you know where—only matched and surpassed by Heir/Noble fanboys and their corresponding shills—, the many horror stories of pretty poor CS coupled with not so infrequent sub-par QC, the JH-3A fiasco, the recent lawsuit against 1964 Ears, the greed, the arrogance...), it isn't that easy for this grumpy, yet often good-looking, sparrow to write the following words (and I'll admit that a part of me was wishing not to like these phones as much as I do so that I could comfortably write them off and sell them while they're still new in the market and not lose that much in the process): I have NEVER heard a phone that ticks so many boxes audio-wise. So, yes, the JHA Angie is THE best ear/headphone I've heard to date.
-- The tonal balance is simply incredible.
-- Detail retrieval and layering are astounding.
-- The midrange and high frequencies (and their blending and transitioning) have never sounded this good, with low freqs finding their closest to a right place as I've heard.
-- The clean sound produced by these small things is absolutely remarkable.
-- The seamless blending of all frequencies is, and please excuse the term, spectacular for an 8-driver (x2) monitor.
-- The combination of sheer clarity, non-excessive/artificial fullness of sound (note thickness/warmth/lushness, etc.) while simultaneously not being lean, bright and/or two-dimensional sounding (mostly due to dips & peaks in FR) AND (the often frowned-upon term) musicality is, well, simply phenomenal — a true, or the truest I've heard, window to Music.
There.
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Wow. Okay...since you also love the UERM and Carbo Tenores (I do too), I'll have to listen to the Angies when I get a chance. Seems like they will be the ones in the line up that I would like. I also really like the TG334 too but as a bassier/more euphonic counterpart to the UERM. I have been tempted to get a pair of TG334 as a complement to UERM but luckily, they aren't that easy to impulse buy.
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^ By all means audition the Angies when you have a chance to, but having already the truly excellent UERMs, I'd say in your case you should eventually aim for the 334s or a similar type sig…unless, of course, you found the Angies that much better sonically (they aren't, IMO), or different sounding to warrant a purchase.
Like I said, I think some would genuinely still prefer the UERM regardless of allegiance to either UE or JHA (at least with the Angies one has the choice of getting the universal or custom version of it—getting customs can really be a pain, specially if one's not based in the U.S.). The UERM is a classic already, in my book, and it should remain so for a long time still.
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Perhaps irrelevant, but those thinking of getting the Angies should try and get a 1010 Pelican case — the Angie's stock case isn't really appropriate for these phones as the cable thickness, connectors, ear guides and bass dial take up quite a bit of space and barely fit in the provided red round metal case.
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music_4321 ,
i have/love K3003 but i am eyeing angie for quite some time now , i think it will probably be my next TOTL iem
i like neutral/balanced/musical iem sig , and last but not least how would you compare K3003/angie ?
thanx in advance ahoy
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Hi there,
As you may have gathered by now, I do prefer the Angies over the K3003s. The main difference would be in the treble department, where the Angies never display the glare the AKGs can with several recordings or when you turn the volume up with the latter. The K3003s also have more midbass while the Angies are flatter and, as a result of this, the midrange may seem more forward on the JHAs or more recessed on the AKGs, if you like. While not as fast, the K3003's bass may have more natural decay. The sound is more cohesive, though, on the JHAs.
That said, and I do mean this, I'm sure there are those who would still favour the AKG's signature over the Angie's, and in that sense both the K3003 & UERM (I know you haven't heard the latter) could be more euphonic — see, more people, for instance, prefer(red) the TG334 over the AKGs—I personally didn't, I sold the former and kept the latter.
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Very tempting.
I never bothered with ciem-s myself, because of my location.
Music_4321 can you state your rig before HD800 ?
It would help to calibrate to your findings.
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Music, could you compare the Angie and Layla for us?
Also, you mentioned Noble earphones several times, could you mention which of the Noble line you've had a chance to listen to and what your take on those was? I think it will help to give some perspective.
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Very tempting.
I never bothered with ciem-s myself, because of my location.
Music_4321 can you state your rig before HD800 ?
It would help to calibrate to your findings.
Not so sure how that would exactly "help to calibrate to my findings", but I think you probably should wait for more impressions from people you trust. FWIW, though, check my profile and see the gear I own/have owned.
Music, could you compare the Angie and Layla for us?
Also, you mentioned Noble earphones several times, could you mention which of the Noble line you've had a chance to listen to and what your take on those was? I think it will help to give some perspective.
To answer your first question, please read (again) post # 6 of this thread.
To answer your second question, check my profile and see the phones I've heard, all of which I've owned (read: they were not mere brief auditions at a meet or in a shop [in loud environments]).
That said, the comments I've made about Heir & Noble have nothing to do with having owned (or not) any of their products. If anyone (you perhaps?) would like to send me an Heir or Noble product, I'll give it a fair assessment, but, again, that won't change my views of Heir & Noble.
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Music_4321 can you state your rig before HD800 ?
It would help to calibrate to your findings.
Violectric V200. Not sure about what the DAC is. So yeah, basically an entry level rig for the 800 with lots of room for improvement (no offense music). If you are interested because it sounds like it might be a HD800 killer, might want to temper that as I know you are located in a place where you might need to be more careful with how you spend your funds. Especially with JHA customer support record. I will say I know who has taken over JHA CS recently and he's the real deal, so I'm hopeful that their former problems are a thing of the past.
That said, the Angies sound promising relative to the UERM and I'll look to demo a set. As you know, my HD800 rig (saying it annihilates the V200 is not much of an exaggeration) is tops versus my portable rig (a rig that already kills the AK240 and Sony ZX-1 with the same CIEM) and it's not even close. Hope that helps.
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That's cool, Anax. The truth is that I haven't 'pursued' a better amp for my Senns because I use IEMs quite a bit more (for a number of reasons). The V200 is very handy, amongst other things, because it has two HPOs, so it is often the case that I use both my HD800s & HD600s when I have someone around (both phones having the same impedance) and I want us to listen to the same stuff at the same time (being the veeery nice guy that I am, I always use the 600s).
As for the AK240, I had a chance to return my unit and get a full refund if not happy, but it was other factors, rather than 'amazing SQ', that made me keep the bloody thing (as you know, I don't buy into the whole Hi-Res BS), so I'm quite happy with it. Bottom line, although I'm sure I could get better sonics with different gear, the AK240 + Angie/LAB I/UERM/PF IX keep my grumpiness in check.
Good to hear CS at JHA has improved.
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On a separate note, one problem I'm having at times, and I'm being serious here, is that I've found myself turning up the volume more with the Angies than I normally do with any other phone. The sound is so clean, and the FR so right, that good recordings (and plenty not so good) simply shine with these phones, and I often want it louder (!). And the problem, in terms of protecting my hearing, is that there's absolutely no listening fatigue — impressive cleanliness of reproduction (no warmth kinda forgiving stuff here) and how instruments are allowed to breathe (yes!!) when there's actual dynamics in the recording/mastering. I should make it clear that turning up the volume is NOT due to a lack of perception of (micro) details, but out of sheer enjoyment of the music.
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That's cool, Anax....
Yeah I hear you bro. All valid and good reasons for those gear choices. V200 does do well it warming up the tonality of the stock HD800. The most logical synergistic pairing to alleviate the 800's most obvious inherent drawback. An All-In-One DAP is also another great utility decision. I'd hardly call my rig portable or pocketable. Most of my listening on the go happens on an airplane or long bus ride.
Yeah, welcome to the loud listening club. You are suffering from 'Youarethere-itis'.
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If you are interested because it sounds like it might be a HD800 killer, might want to temper that as I know you are located in a place where you might need to be more careful with how you spend your funds.
That said, the Angies sound promising relative to the UERM and I'll look to demo a set. As you know, my HD800 rig (saying it annihilates the V200 is not much of an exaggeration) is tops versus my portable rig (a rig that already kills the AK240 and Sony ZX-1 with the same CIEM) and it's not even close. Hope that helps.
Have you kept track with my failures with Yulong (among things) purchases? :D
I am raelly doubtful that there is a HD800 killer in iem package, just that my current iems are TDK-s..
Certainly looking forward to your and other pirates assesment on these.
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Go on, Priidik, get yourself a pair of Angies. NOW! You know you want to. I'd trust The Cheerful Sparrow if I were you.
Be the proud owner of an exclusive A&K and Jerry Harvey product! Let your friends know you've spent over $1,000 on a pair of universal IEMs—they'll be soooo jealous. Tell them all how your empty-headed wife/girlfriend spends as much, if not more, on shoes and handbags. Then tell them Angie is Da Hot Babe you've always dreamed of, but Layla is the girl you secretly wanna marry…etc., etc.
I need validation.
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Is it possible to test out UERM, JH products at places besides trade shows?
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Check their website. They have a list of audiologists that have the demo box (which let's you compare their entire lineup through a tablet interface).
I bet it's mostly in the US, though.
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Dear Señor Anaxilus,
Do us a favour and tell us if your ultra uber resolving gear reveals issues with the following track, particularly in the sibilance department: http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/When+Poets+Dreamed+Of+Angels/4iitLW?src=5
If it does, either your gear ain't good enough and the Angies (and AK240) rule, or the Angies suck and you and your gear rule…or a friendly compromise: our sibilance tolerance levels are different.
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hate to butt in...but I'd like to say that I don't find that track overly sibilant on either my headphone or loudspeaker rig. Both tuned for neutrality.
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Dear Mr OJneg,
I'm very pleased to tell you that you and your gear rule! But, may I ask why you haven't placed an order for the Angies yet?
Yours faithfully,
The Ever So Cheerful, Always Friendly, Unbelievably Helpful, and Now Very Popular Sparrow (aka Your New 24/7 AK & JHA Shill)
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Dear Señor Anaxilus,
Do us a favour and tell us if your ultra uber resolving gear reveals issues with the following track, particularly in the sibilance department: http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/When+Poets+Dreamed+Of+Angels/4iitLW?src=5
If it does, either your gear ain't good enough and the Angies (and AK240) rule, or the Angies suck and you and your gear rule…or a friendly compromise: our sibilance tolerance levels are different.
Using my Laptop (JRiver 20)>GO450>Leckerton UHA6Smk2>UERM custom modded:
First thing's first. Your grooveshark linked track of the 'reissue' or 'remaster' sounds quite LOUD with quite a bit of compression making everything go wub wub and blurring the imaging and transients. I went ahead and looked it up here to see if it was my imagination.
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=david+sylvian&album=
Lo and behold, it's not. Just to reconfirm I decided to go to that venerable audio reference library in the sky known as youtube to see how your grooveshark remaster compared to other prior non-remastered tracks. Lo and behold again, we now have natural reverb and decay with clean imaging and transients that are actually natural and not compressed. Even using youtube's shitty compression which is another separate issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gHjjisKxzs
As for sibilance, on your Grooveshark track I do detect and ever so slight elevation of 'sss' over the natural sibilants in his vocal speech patterns but nothing too overly fatiguing for long term listening. However, on the youboob track the sibilants are much much more natural and completely unfatiguing. No surprise as your grooveshark track has had loudness applied in the mastering making everything pop more (including vocal sibilance). So if you hear absolutely no sibilance on either track I have a hard time accepting your rig as more accurate since I can detect a clear difference in two separate masters (unless you've added compression in your upload process or rip which I doubt).
When you can hear vocal sibilance naturally just talking to a person just by saying something like, "your gear suckss" I don't find it something that needs to be oppressed or removed by upstream gear. So if your AK240 and Angie didn't reveal those differences, maybe that's something we all should look at when considering an uber-resolving piece of kit. YMMV.
PS-OJ tends to prefer a hint of warmth just fyi (I've heard most of his gear and tonal preferences in person and that's my opinion. Marvey likes it even a hair warmer up top than OJ) and it has nothing to do with ruler flat measured neutrality in FR. Warm and sibilant upstreams can both measure flat. No surprise.
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FWIW I think that original posted sounds unnatural and fatiguing, but I don't find it overly sibilant. It doesn't make me rip my headphones off.
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Me neither. Not ear ripping. Just a hair over where it should be as the difference from the original master indicates.
Other tracks that have zero sibilance issues on my rig:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1Qf912W_JM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13GD78Bmo8s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGfVOdTiUEc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSqT_PeiV0U
So if an audio rig reveals one track has issues, and others don't, isn't it more revealing (i.e. transparent)?
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Thanks for your reply, Sr Anaxilus.
I have to apologise as I didn't actually listen to that Grooveshark track myself (just found the track and posted a link to it [it was thanks to you, incidentally, a few years back, that I learned there was a place called Grooveshark]). I actually only have the original (1987) CD, and was not convinced by the remastered version of it when it came out, which, incidentally, Mr David Sylvian had nothing to do with.
Now, I'm not so sure whether compression would actually affect sibilance in this case, or affect it that much (I'd need to compare both versions to be sure), but I'd say it mostly affects dynamics, including, of course, (natural) decay.
"So if you hear absolutely no sibilance on either track I have a hard time accepting your rig as more accurate since I can detect a clear difference in two separate masters (unless you've added compression in your upload process or rip which I doubt)." —— With my rig I have no sibilance issues (like I do with a couple of phones), but I do detect a 'natural' elevation (careful here) of the "sss", but nothing worrisome at all. No, no compression added, just a straight FLAC rip.
"PS-OJ tends to prefer a hint of warmth just fyi (I've heard most of his gear and tonal preferences in person and that's my opinion. Marvey likes it even a hair warmer up top than OJ) and it has nothing to do with ruler flat measured neutrality in FR. Warm and sibilant upstreams can both measure flat. No surprise." —— One of the great things about good recordings/masters is that there's a sort of warmth (or now we call it that!) that is, er, very natural, to these ears, natural in the sense of resembling what we hear in the real world; many modern recordings and ear/headphones enhance treble (and bass!), as you very well know, which in turn adds artificial brightness and detail (as I sometimes say, do we actually look at life through a microscope (or a magnifying lens) in real life?)
What upsets me the most, apart, obviously, from Mr OJneg not having ordered the Angies yet, is that none of you said, "Nice track, music_4321/Sparrow!".
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Sibilance is a vocal dynamic. Compression just makes everything louder, not sure why sibilance would be immune to that effect in my opinion. I do agree with what you are hearing. A very natural elevation on the original.
Thx for the kind note on Grooveshark G. And yes that's good music bro. :)p5
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Secrets of the Beehive is one of my favorite albums.
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Secrets of the Beehive is one of my favorite albums.
Secrets of the Beehive is indeed a great album, but, more importantly—at least for now, anyway—, have you placed an order for your Angies yet? Some of us need to make a living one way or another, you know, and my shilling services have to bear fruit veeery soon.
(Do note I now also sell A&K and JHA bumper stickers, beer mugs, coffee mugs, pens, toothpaste, aprons, baseball caps, Mexican hats, and so on.)
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It is indeed a great album, though Orpheus is a lot more sibilant than the track you linked, the 's's and 't's sound a bit whistly and unnatural for me, should they?
Here's another track that's ALWAYS been a unnaturally sibilant for me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjydOI4MEIw
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OK a new member here, and a happy Angie owner (also a migrant from HF hypes of Layla). I'm in line with the sparrow's impression that I don't need to crank the volumes up too high to get the smoothness and details. From portable devices (zx1 in my case) Angies are good, but they really shine with proper desktop gears. On the go Angie and Noble 4 serves me very well.
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It is indeed a great album, though Orpheus is a lot more sibilant than the track you linked, the 's's and 't's sound a bit whistly and unnatural for me, should they?
Here's another track that's ALWAYS been a unnaturally sibilant for me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjydOI4MEIw
albums like these , should be listened in good quality , say a great vinyl rip (the new ear candy is VR , gentlemen) at least 16/44 FLAC
listening to music off youtube from a 1000$ iem , sounds like driving a ferrari in a mud road
not worthy of the car/iem ,and doesnot let the car/iem show its true nature/potential
cheers
btw , sparrow you should check the albums David Sylvian did with Mr Holger Czukai from the famous/genius Krautrock band CAN
good (ambient) stuff
cheers again
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Shoot the sparrow.
I know this is primarily an audio forum and, as such, we mostly discuss (very) subtle differences between different pieces of gear, sometimes to the point where these differences become, quite frankly, ridiculous or simply non-existent.
I, for one, am someone who detests the loudness wars, but music ALWAYS comes first, sonics second. And even within the loudness wars there are different degrees of offense.
Now, as far a bitrates goes, I find that a well-mastered 192-256 kbps AAC file is more than good enough (an understatement) — how many of us can truly tell, in a proper blind test, the difference between a 256 & WAV/FLAC file? And even in those veeeery rare instances when someone can, how often do we actually listen so attentively (often late at night), in an absolutely quiet environment, being 100% totally focused on the music?
Have lost count of the number of times I've cringed when I see some people telling others they're not liking a piece of gear because they're not using FLAC, WAV or Hi-Res files, or using X, Y or Z DAP, amp, DAC or cable. There was (still is) a case of a dude I often refer to as Mr Parroting Garbage who claimed, amongst other wonderful things, that he could hear the difference between FLAC & WAV; this particular character managed to fool/influence lots of noobs and even a few not so noob — his parroting skills, while not perfect, did improve, though, and he effectively became as close to a shill as one can get (his gradual very cosy relationship with two 'companies' was, err, rather 'interesting' and quite telling). Oh dear…
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proedros, I have both albums DS did with Holger Czukay, but I very rarely listen to them. Secrets of the Beehive, Brilliant Trees and Gone to Earth, on the other hand, I visit much more often, the latter being my favourite.
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Now, wasn't this thread supposed to be about the JHA Angie? (Yes, guilty as charged, I guess)
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The Angies are now at the top of the list for IEMs I'd like to try out. I'm pretty happy with UERM x 2 and Rockets, but I'm definitely interested.
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I've got a strong feeling that the sweet point of Angie is that it doesn't leave me wanting for more in any respect. In the ~$1k price range, there may be certain UIEMs to be stronger than Angie in some certain aspects, but overall I found Angie offers the best music experience package.
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albums like these , should be listened in good quality , say a great vinyl rip (the new ear candy is VR , gentlemen) at least 16/44 FLAC
listening to music off youtube from a 1000$ iem , sounds like driving a ferrari in a mud road
not worthy of the car/iem ,and doesnot let the car/iem show its true nature/potential
cheers
Don't tell me where to drive my Ferrari, I will drive it into my friggin' pool if I goddamn please.
On a more serious note, my question wasn't about the worth of the recording, it was about whether that particular version should sound annoyingly sibilant with 'proper' gear.
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Dear Señor Anaxilus,
Do us a favour and tell us if your ultra uber resolving gear reveals issues with the following track, particularly in the sibilance department: http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/When+Poets+Dreamed+Of+Angels/4iitLW?src=5
If it does, either your gear ain't good enough and the Angies (and AK240) rule, or the Angies suck and you and your gear rule…or a friendly compromise: our sibilance tolerance levels are different.
Using my Laptop (JRiver 20)>GO450>Leckerton UHA6Smk2>UERM custom modded:
First thing's first. Your grooveshark linked track of the 'reissue' or 'remaster' sounds quite LOUD with quite a bit of compression making everything go wub wub and blurring the imaging and transients. I went ahead and looked it up here to see if it was my imagination.
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=david+sylvian&album=
Lo and behold, it's not. Just to reconfirm I decided to go to that venerable audio reference library in the sky known as youtube to see how your grooveshark remaster compared to other prior non-remastered tracks. Lo and behold again, we now have natural reverb and decay with clean imaging and transients that are actually natural and not compressed. Even using youtube's shitty compression which is another separate issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gHjjisKxzs
As for sibilance, on your Grooveshark track I do detect and ever so slight elevation of 'sss' over the natural sibilants in his vocal speech patterns but nothing too overly fatiguing for long term listening. However, on the youboob track the sibilants are much much more natural and completely unfatiguing. No surprise as your grooveshark track has had loudness applied in the mastering making everything pop more (including vocal sibilance). So if you hear absolutely no sibilance on either track I have a hard time accepting your rig as more accurate since I can detect a clear difference in two separate masters (unless you've added compression in your upload process or rip which I doubt).
When you can hear vocal sibilance naturally just talking to a person just by saying something like, "your gear suckss" I don't find it something that needs to be oppressed or removed by upstream gear. So if your AK240 and Angie didn't reveal those differences, maybe that's something we all should look at when considering an uber-resolving piece of kit. YMMV.
PS-OJ tends to prefer a hint of warmth just fyi (I've heard most of his gear and tonal preferences in person and that's my opinion. Marvey likes it even a hair warmer up top than OJ) and it has nothing to do with ruler flat measured neutrality in FR. Warm and sibilant upstreams can both measure flat. No surprise.
Dear Señor Anax,
Guess I'll have to take my apology back.
So, I swapped cables again (been using the included/stock balanced cable for my AK240, as noted in my first post) and went back to the standard SE cable so I could compare my 1987 track to the Grooveshark 2006 remastered version, using my MBP.
Turns out that the real difference is not in dynamic range but in amplitude (volume) of the whole recording, that is, the remastered version is simply pretty much a louder version of the original 1987 CD pressing. When I volume matched both versions, they sounded almost identical. I now remember quite well why I didn't get the remaster at the time — for one, it didn't include the last track, one of my favourites on the album (a track, btw, that was not part of the original 1987 vinyl edition, which had 9 tracks instead of the 10 the first CD pressing CD had), but also the rest of the album had not been improved sonically.
Now, after re-reading your post, it almost sounds as if both versions are quite different sounding, and the remastered being pretty much a piece of shit sonically. While dynamic range on both versions could be better, they're both actually fairly decent in that regard.
So, I went to the DR database site you linked to and checked just how different both versions were: lo and behold indeed, they're nearly identical!
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=david+sylvian&album=secrets+of+the+beehive
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Here's a few impressions (taken from a few email exchanges) from a good friend who got his Angies today. He's never posted on CS and still prefers not to, but he's kindly allowed me to post his initial impressions here. He's fairly experienced, has heard lots of IEMs (including two sets of highly regarded customs) of all price ranges. His favourite gear is his Stax Lambdas setup.
"Angie just came in and... I think there's some weird channel imbalance issue? I was underwhelmed out of the box but then I checked the manual and apparently the pots were set at max. I tried to match as best as I could to 1'clock but it still sounds weird like the center imaging is skewed and favoring the left channel.
I dunno maybe I'm just not used to the presentation or something. It sounds extremely weird to me compared to the EQ-8, like very trapped in the head and squashed. Maybe my dials aren't set right?"
"... I just threw on another track and the presentation sort of reminds me of the 1Plus2 in how forward the staging feels, as if the performance was taking place from in front of me but without the 1Plus2’s thin note presentation. Can’t say I’ve ever heard a stage that sounds quite like this in terms of placement/localization. It just extremely, extremely odd going back and forth between the EQ-8 and the Angie earlier. Not sure if my pair is in good order but I’ll keep tabs on things as they develop. Not sure how much listening I’ll be able to do today but I’ve got em for a good while yet.
NOT diggin the fit so far though. I can feel the driver diggin into my left and right ears this very moment :l"
"Using Ortofons. Might have to mess with different tips or something. I’m finding the fit to be quite awkward. I do have to push them in quite deeply, but I’m not sure that I’m getting a deep fit either way since the housings don’t exactly nestle in my ears to begin with. I kinda have to shove em in just to get enough suction to induce a seal. The presentation continues to be extremely odd to me. Listening to Mars Volta’s Inertiac ESP and the soundstage sounds very tall, with Omar’s guitar, Flea’s bass and Cedric towering slightly to the left, the drum kit is also slightly to the left, and there’s just the keys occupying the right. It sounds very, very odd cause everything seems to be clustered on one side and it feels squashed and lacking in depth. Utterly, utterly bizarre. It just sounds completely wrong to me. I have never ever heard this recording sound anything like this. On my EQ-8 and every other phone I’ve ever heard, Cedric, Flea and the drum kit are dead center, Omar is on the left, and the keys are on the right."
"I’m not sure if my pair is even in good working order to be honest. These things just don’t sound right to me at all. I’m going to run some test tones and see if I can detect some imbalance."
"I’m almost certain these things are broken. Listening to Modest Mouse right now and it’s the same thing. Vocals and bass are quite clearly biased to the left channel, dead center on the EQ-8. God what a pain in the ass :l I don’t think I’ll ask for a replacement set. It’ll likely cost me like $25 to insure and ship these back, and the second set will have to be returned for a total of at least $50. Most importantly, the fit is just not good for me, so even if I dig wind up liking them, I’d just have a Shure SE846/PF IX situation on my hands where I’ll have to suffer some real nagging pain just to enjoy my phones."
"This blows cause from what I can hear, these sound quite good. Perhaps if JH came out with a revised model where they’re able to reduce the size of the shells to be closer to something like the K10 (which packs 10 drivers into a pretty small enclosure), I’ll think of revisiting this."
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They do NOT sound the same at the same volume. Unless maybe you use an AK240. I volume match when A/Bing. There's also more than just DR that's at issue with the remaster fwiw. It is a PoS sonically imho. The remaster is clearly inferior unless you like loudness wars. The two couldn't be any more different in mastering technique. So what you call nearly identical on your rig and references, I'd call not nearly with mine.
You can keep the apology if it makes you feel better.
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That measures the album min/max and avg, not the track. They do NOT sound the same at the same volume. Unless maybe you use an AK240. I volume match when A/Bing. There's also more than just DR that's at issue with the remaster fwiw. You can keep the apology.
As noted in my post, I swapped cables so I could specifically compare both tracks using my MacBook Pro, not the AK240.
We'll just have to agree to strongly disagree on this one.
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As noted in my post, I swapped cables so I could specifically compare both tracks using my MacBook Pro, not the AK240.
We'll just have to agree to strongly disagree on this one.
Macbook pro HO? Oh great....
Yeah, that's putting it mildly. Let people hear for themselves is fine with me. At least we've confirmed the Macbook Pro integrated audio sucks for professional mastering. :))
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Turns out that the real difference is not in dynamic range but in amplitude (volume) of the whole recording, that is, the remastered version is simply pretty much a louder version of the original 1987 CD pressing. When I volume matched both versions, they sounded almost identical. I now remember quite well why I didn't get the remaster at the time — for one, it didn't include the last track, one of my favourites on the album (a track, btw, that was not part of the original 1987 vinyl edition, which had 9 tracks instead of the 10 the first CD pressing CD had), but also the rest of the album had not been improved sonically.
Now, after re-reading your post, it almost sounds as if both versions are quite different sounding, and the remastered being pretty much a piece of shit sonically. While dynamic range on both versions could be better, they're both actually fairly decent in that regard.
So, I went to the DR database site you linked to and checked just how different both versions were: lo and behold indeed, they're nearly identical!
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=david+sylvian&album=secrets+of+the+beehive
I suppose I could have been fooled....but right now I find it hard to believe that the original had the same amount of dynamic range as that file that you posted. When I clicked on Anax's YouTube link I was like "oh there's there the guitar decay...there's the space...there the natural timbre of the instrument". I'll need to grab lossless versions of both masters and compare later tonight.
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Macbook pro HO? Oh great....
Yeah, that's putting it mildly. Let people hear for themselves is fine with me.
Er, not quite. It was MacBook Pro > V200 > Angie.
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I suppose I could have been fooled....but right now I find it hard to believe that the original had the same amount of dynamic range as that file that you posted. When I clicked on Anax's YouTube link I was like "oh there's there the guitar decay...there's the space...there the natural timbre of the instrument". I'll need to grab lossless versions of both masters and compare later tonight.
It's also not clear exactly which version is the youtube link and which exact version is the grooveshark. All I can tell from listening is that do NOT sound the same at any volume level.
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Er, not quite. It was MacBook Pro > V200 > Angie.
Guess that proves my point about the V200 as well if my little cheopo portable rig (GO450>Leck UHA6) is more transparent. ;)
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It's also not clear exactly which version is the youtube link and which exact version is the grooveshark. All I can tell from listening is that do NOT sound the same at any volume level.
Look, I didn't listen to the YouTube version because I actually have the CD. It was you who posted a link to the dynamic range album database and came to the conclusion that the Grooveshark version & YouTube one were the 2009 remaster and the original....Then, well,...and then, er...well again.
To me this is not a pissing match. I do have an ego, but...
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Look, I didn't listen to the YouTube version because I actually have the CD. It was you who posted a link to the dynamic range album database and came to the conclusion that the Grooveshark version & YouTube one were the 2009 remaster and the original....Then, well,...and then, er...well again.
To me this is not a pissing match. I do have an ego, but...
Well then I don't get why you bothered making a post yesterday snarking about my, as you put it, "uber resolving gear" and linked a track and commented on another when you didn't even bother to listen to them comparatively. What's that about exactly?
Btw, my comment about the V200 is genuine. Not about pissing matches. That thing blows for any ToTL transducer. Out of its league. I'm just analyzing your argument and technique.
Let's have OJ have a listen and maybe others to comment further shall we...
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Well then I don't get why you bothered making a post yesterday snarking about my, as you put it, "uber resolving gear" and linked a track and commented on another when you didn't even bother to listen to them comparatively. What's that about exactly?
Btw, my comment about the V200 is genuine. Not about pissing matches. That thing blows for any ToTL transducer. Out of its league. I'm just analyzing your argument and technique.
Hey Anax, do you really want me to go into a lengthy reply, in a sequence, and analysing the tone and attitude of our posts? I'm not inclined to, really, and this would seriously derail this thread, which, after all, is about the Angies.
Hey, I still like you—I really do, and I'm not being patronising here—even though I may not always agree with you, with some of your comments, pronouncements or, at times, the tone of some of your posts.
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Hey Anax, do you really want me to go into a lengthy reply, in a sequence, and analysing the tone and attitude of our posts? I'm not inclined to, really, and this would seriously derail this thread, which, after all, is about the Angies.
Hey, I still like you—I really do, and I'm not being patronising here—even though I may not always agree with you, with some of your comments, pronouncements or, at times, the tone of some of your posts.
Do whatever makes you happy. I think we both have a tone that can be interpreted or misinterpreted similarly, and after all these years I think we both know that.
Besides, interpreting tone on the internet? Yikes. That's what emoticons are for.
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Do whatever makes you happy. I think we both have a tone that can be interpreted or misinterpreted similarly, and after all these years I think we both know that.
Besides, interpreting tone on the internet? Yikes. That's what emoticons are for.
I'm just bloody upset no-one's buying the Angies after all my efforts and hype in this thread, and the only person who has—a friend, no less!—, well, he's having bloody fit issues, perhaps a faulty unit…or these are mere excuses to simply carefully break it to this now terribly fragile sparrow that these phones are...utter crap.
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I'm just bloody upset no-one's buying the Angies after all my efforts and hype in this thread, and the only person who has—a friend, no less!—, well, he's having bloody fit issues, perhaps a faulty unit…or these are mere excuses to simply carefully break it to this now terribly fragile sparrow that these phones are...utter crap.
Well sparrow I think I'm with you on the hype train ... But I also share (though occasionally) the same left/right channal imbalance/centering problem as your friend did. May we have some healthy discussion?
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My friend has small ears, so I'm wondering if the fit issues he's having (with these rather large shells in particular) may be contributing to the channel imbalance problem he's getting. His latest comment:
"Just tried slipping on a pair of UE900 tips, the largest ones just as a test and… it’s not too bad in terms of fit. This makes it so that I can get a seal but also so that the entire housing makes no contact with my ears LOL. It’s just totally hanging out there Frankenbolt style. Right ear is ironically the one that’s bothering me a bit at the moment. The bulbous shells just make contact with my cartilage in all the wrong ways. I think I’ve spent enough time on this. Will maybe try listening a bit later. I’m kind of fed up with fiddling with things at the moment. Will probably give it a few days and then call to return them."
There's a real possibility, though, that he may have genuinely a faulty set. FWIW, I had channel imbalance with my first pair of customs (Westone ES3X) 6 years ago (needed 3 re-fits/4 sets in the end).
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Fwiw, I had channel imbalance on my ES5s out of the gate but it went away after a 2-3 weeks somehow. Maybe water drained out of my ear one night. Or a Ceti Eel larva from Wrath of Khan...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bviz_sQKiX4
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music: Could you please try listening to the copies that you have locally one more time? Then the tracks that were posted in the thread to double-check? I think you have good ears and this sort of thing shouldn't be escaping you. This is not what I would consider a subtle difference
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I had trouble with channel imbalances on most of my CIEMs..
I figured my ears are imbalanced.. LOL
Too much calling and answering calls using my right ear...
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music: Could you please try listening to the copies that you have locally one more time? Then the tracks that were posted in the thread to double-check? I think you have good ears and this sort of thing shouldn't be escaping you. This is not what I would consider a subtle difference
Ok, let me clarify (for you, at least) that locally I only have a FLAC rip of the original 1987 CD pressing, I don't have the 2006 remaster myself. Yesterday, I only compared my FLAC rip to the Grooveshark 2006 remaster.
I have now compared my 1987 (FLAC) version to the YouTube version, which is indeed the same 1987 version (I hadn't listened to the latter until now, since you asked me to). These two are practically identical but the YouTube version sounds a hair more compressed.
So, basically, my comments still stand. I will concede, though, that they (the 1987 & 2006 versions) are not "almost identical" sounding as I stated yesterday, but they're still pretty close and certainly, to these ears at least, not as vastly different as Anaxilus described them (when volume-matched, of course). The 2006 version is a bit brighter, but the dynamic range is very, very similar.
So, anyone who wants to compare both links may feel free to do so and post their findings here, and either agree with Anaxilus that, when volume-matched, they're quite/very different, in which case The Fragile Sparrow's ears are a mess, or agree with music_4321 that while different sounding, they're still pretty close, in which case the chirping sparrow's ears aren't completely foocked.
** I hope at some point we can talk about/discuss the Angies again **
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As for my friend's Angies, I got the following early this morning (morning in Europe, last night in the US):
"...and believe me, there is most definitely a channel imbalance issue. I tried them earlier with a podcast and the voices are clearly biased towards the left channel. I most definitely have a good seal in place. Music of all types just feels completely wrong, it’s enormously distracting. Not a good first impression but I’m rather intrigued by the overall tonal balance. From what I CAN hear, this does seem like a phone that would be up my alley. What I’m most curious about, is how it stacks up to the EQ-8 tho. With the bass dials set to 0 dB it actually felt quite similar to the Ortofon. I’ll try to fiddle with it some more tomorrow."
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I had trouble with channel imbalances on most of my CIEMs..
I figured my ears are imbalanced.. LOL
Too much calling and answering calls using my right ear...
Ear wax maybe? :)p8
It can enter the sound tube ;)
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So, basically, my comments still stand. I will concede, though, that they (the 1987 & 2006 versions) are not "almost identical" sounding as I stated yesterday, but they're still pretty close and certainly, to these ears at least, not as vastly different as Anaxilus described them (when volume-matched, of course). The 2006 version is a bit brighter, but the dynamic range is very, very similar.
Ok, so I think you're hearing it but maybe your references are off. The dynamic range is not what I would consider similar at all. What you're hearing as brightness is probably the compression we're talking about. It does make things seem brighter in a certain sense. I was going to try to get DR readouts for both masters but a quick web search didn't reveal where I might be able to download each file. I might try to grab CD copies of each, just for you my feathered friend.
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Ear wax maybe? :)p8
It can enter the sound tube ;)
But sparrows do not secrete ear wax!
Ok, so I think you're hearing it but maybe your references are off. The dynamic range is not what I would consider similar at all. What you're hearing as brightness is probably the compression we're talking about. It does make things seem brighter in a certain sense. I was going to try to get DR readouts for both masters but a quick web search didn't reveal where I might be able to download each file. I might try to grab CD copies of each, just for you my feathered friend.
Not sure what you mean when you say "your references are off", but, er, ok…
"What you're hearing as brightness is probably the compression we're talking about. It does make things seem brighter in a certain sense" —— Don't think I fully agree with you there, or perhaps we agree but express things differently. When you compress things dynamically, basically, as far as I see it, everything becomes similarly loud (quiet bits become loud and loud bits remain, er, loud). Now, things can be loud and still be darker/warmer sounding, but, admittedly, that's not very common. I believe that often treble levels have been gradually raised in recordings or remasters in the last 20 years or so (rather than, or apart from merely, compressing DR) to give an artificial (or a better) sense of detail, or simply as a means to allow people to discern more when everything sounds similarly loud, particularly as far too many people listen to music on the go (or in loud environments), many of whom are using canal phones (earbuds)—phones that do not isolate (much [at all]).
I myself listen to plenty of classical music, but find, for instance, that classical music while driving is NOT satisfying at all (background/engine/street noise being the culprit here). For classical music on the go (with earphones), good isolation is critical...but I guess this is obvious to those who listen to this kind of music.
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I'm just bloody upset no-one's buying the Angies after all my efforts and hype in this thread, and the only person who has—a friend, no less!—, well, he's having bloody fit issues, perhaps a faulty unit…or these are mere excuses to simply carefully break it to this now terribly fragile sparrow that these phones are...utter crap.
You've gotten me interested. Unfortunately, the JH3A debacle, their patent suit against another small-time IEM player, some customer service issues (reported here), and my own lukewarm impressions of the JH13FP (hyped by Jude) and other JH IEMs makes me choose to sit on the sidelines and wait until the dust settles. Your friend's channel balance issues don't help either.
Btw, my comment about the V200 is genuine. Not about pissing matches. That thing blows for any ToTL transducer. Out of its league. I'm just analyzing your argument and technique.
Let's have OJ have a listen and maybe others to comment further shall we...
[deleted - I'm not commenting about amps]
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You've gotten me interested. Unfortunately, the JH3A debacle, their patent suit against another small-time IEM player, some customer service issues (reported here), and my own lukewarm impressions of the JH13FP (hyped by Jude) and other JH IEMs makes me choose to sit on the sidelines and wait until the dust settles. Your friend's channel balance issues don't help either.
[deleted - I'm not commenting about amps]
A very good friend who demoed the original non-FP JH13 (before the JH-3A fiasco) and UERM (before it became every pirate's darling) preferred the Ultimate Ears and purchased a set. He made two brief comments after I sent him my initial Angie impressions, the second of which was: "Kinda surprised you went for those. That guy [JH] won't get a cent from me as a matter of principle…"
While most certainly not a proud owner of a JHA product (not ashamed either), and cringing away after seeing several comments/posts by a so-called "contributor", plus a couple of puking-inducing comments of a sexual nature (I'm certainly not afraid of, or threatened by, sex or women) by a "moderator", a few months ago in a place we're all familiar with, I…
A comment I made to a friend yesterday: "All this sex & car talk just gets to me and gets old very quickly... Is it a requirement to have a wet dream on a daily basis to join HF, I wonder?"
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A comment I made to a friend yesterday: "All this sex & car talk just gets to me and gets old very quickly... Is it a requirement to have a wet dream on a daily basis to join HF, I wonder?"
hello,
yes it is (and the mindset of a thirteen year old with spots to boot.)
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You've gotten me interested. Unfortunately, the JH3A debacle, their patent suit against another small-time IEM player, some customer service issues (reported here), and my own lukewarm impressions of the JH13FP (hyped by Jude) and other JH IEMs makes me choose to sit on the sidelines and wait until the dust settles. Your friend's channel balance issues don't help either.
I actually am one of the suckers that bought into the JH3A+JH16s, but I bought them shortly after the whole JH3A started shipping normally. While the JH16s are alright (we all go through a bassy period, right?) being tied to the JH3A has not been ideal.
I'm tempted by the Angies/Laylas and quite liked the sound of them at CanJam, but I'm not sure I really am a big a fan of JH or his company.
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Not the Angie, but I had opportunity to listen to the Layla yesterday. Impressions here: http://cymbacavum.com/2015/04/19/rapid-reaction-astellkern-x-jerry-harvey-audio-layla/
If the Angie midrange is cleaner sounding, I'd very much enjoy it over the Layla and it could easily become a personal favorite. Maybe I'll take a chance on it down the line a bit.
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Not the Angie, but I had opportunity to listen to the Layla yesterday. Impressions here: http://cymbacavum.com/2015/04/19/rapid-reaction-astellkern-x-jerry-harvey-audio-layla/
If the Angie midrange is cleaner sounding, I'd very much enjoy it over the Layla and it could easily become a personal favorite. Maybe I'll take a chance on it down the line a bit.
Nice impressions and balanced review. My honeymoon period with the Layla has as a matter of coincidence ended and I'm starting to appreciate the pros and cons of the Layla (sorry for thread jacking). I am almost in complete agreement with you about the impressive treble and rather subdued or recessed midrange. I have to say the details seem abundant due to the nice treble, but once I got to listen to a larger number of songs I realised the midrange can be quite muffled or veiled. I didn't feel this with the iPhone or AK240 but rather with my big rig (445 and Teton) which just baffles me. I also felt the soundstage is narrower than I thought - maybe 30-40% less than the HD800 - but the instrumental separation is very darn good for an IEM.
I wonder if this midrange veil is contributed to fit or the comply tips I'm using?
One thing I am sure is this won't beat an HD800 or SR009.
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Try something other than comply tips. Those can be nefarious unless you are trying to clean up some treble artifacts. I recommend some bi flanges from Meelec or perhaps UE single flange silicone.
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Try something other than comply tips. Those can be nefarious unless you are trying to clean up some treble artifacts. I recommend some bi flanges from Meelec or perhaps UE single flange silicone.
Thanks Mike. I'll have a look at those.
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If things still sound the same with larger bore silicone tips, then it's the phone, and next step is upstream or impedance dampers if you can get to them.
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Nice impressions and balanced review. My honeymoon period with the Layla has as a matter of coincidence ended and I'm starting to appreciate the pros and cons of the Layla (sorry for thread jacking). I am almost in complete agreement with you about the impressive treble and rather subdued or recessed midrange. I have to say the details seem abundant due to the nice treble, but once I got to listen to a larger number of songs I realised the midrange can be quite muffled or veiled. I didn't feel this with the iPhone or AK240 but rather with my big rig (445 and Teton) which just baffles me. I also felt the soundstage is narrower than I thought - maybe 30-40% less than the HD800 - but the instrumental separation is very darn good for an IEM.
I wonder if this midrange veil is contributed to fit or the comply tips I'm using?
One thing I am sure is this won't beat an HD800 or SR009.
Always good to own the end of the honeymoon period! The only thing I have to add to Anax, is to make double sure you aren't getting any sort of vacuum seal with your tips as this will lead to a more veiled sound (any pressure can prevent the ear drum's movement).
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Always good to own the end of the honeymoon period! The only thing I have to add to Anax, is to make double sure you aren't getting any sort of vacuum seal with your tips as this will lead to a more veiled sound (any pressure can prevent the ear drum's movement).
Thanks again :) Entering into a new world with IEMs here!
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I can't help but wonder whether Mr SGS' interest in the Angie is in any way related to the sparrow's hype in this thread, or a result of limited funds, ie bash the pricier product to excuse your own poor man's Layla purchase.
On a less serious note, and with regards to Comply/foam tips, I suggest Lojay investigate further the issues with Comply/foam tips, that is, often people don't realise that either they're not using the correct type, or, while using the right Comply model, they're not using them properly. Here's a good post from The Crass Dude on HF: http://www.head-fi.org/t/746964/jh-audio-layla-and-angie-head-fi-tv/600#post_11295783
…or this one right before it: http://www.head-fi.org/t/746964/jh-audio-layla-and-angie-head-fi-tv/600#post_11295776
I also remember Tyll writing an article and/or doing a video explaining how to use Comply/foam tips properly — with Comply/foam tips, like chips ([French] fries in the US), many think it's a piece of cake to make, but there's more to them than meets the eye, ear, palate and brain.
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I was wondering if you've seen this review? http://headphone.guru/angie-review/
At the bottom of the page he specifically compares the angies to the uerm, but although he doesn't outright say it, it seems that he favors the latter. How do you find his impressions?
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I can't help but wonder whether Mr SGS' interest in the Angie is in any way related to the sparrow's hype in this thread, or a result of limited funds, ie bash the pricier product to excuse your own poor man's Layla purchase.
I would suggest that making an audio discussion about oneself is problematic. After all, in that case if someone doesn't agree or if they like the same earphone, but not as much, then it could he perceived as a personal affront. And facetious sentiments have a way of being more serious than they may seem.
Also, speculating on someone else's finances is in poor taste, even when possibly meant as a joke.
Certainly, advice on getting a better fit can be useful.
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I would suggest that making an audio discussion about oneself is problematic. After all, in that case if someone doesn't agree or if they like the same earphone, but not as much, then it could he perceived as a personal affront. And facetious sentiments have a way of being more serious than they may seem.
Also, speculating on someone else's finances is in poor taste, even when possibly meant as a joke.
Certainly, advice on getting a better fit can be useful.
Kunlun, as you well know, SGS and I are good friends, and this being Changstar, I'm sure my post is completely okay (I'm sure my post would be absolutely fine on HF, too, BTW).
Perhaps my post is not your cup of tea (no surprises there, of course), and I'm cool with that. I think we both know Kunlun & music_4321 haven't seen eye to eye for a veeeery long time.
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Combitoob, I've just read the relevant bits (sonics) of the review you linked to. I will shortly respond to your post.
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I was wondering if you've seen this review? http://headphone.guru/angie-review/
At the bottom of the page he specifically compares the angies to the uerm, but although he doesn't outright say it, it seems that he favors the latter. How do you find his impressions?
Ok, let's bring a couple variables to the table so we have a better understanding of where things stand between the person who wrote that review and The Charming Sparrow's impressions. It is often the case that some of these variables are used as mere excuses to not lose face. I will try and be as honest as I always strive to.
1. Mr Headphone Guru (HG) uses: iPhone5, iPod Classic, AK120, CalyxM, and for giggles, the NuForce uDAC-3. The sparrow uses: AK240, MBP + V200 (with onboard DAC) and 5G iPod Touch.
2. Although Mr HG & the sparrow have a set of custom UERMs, I do believe the same set of customs may not yield the exact same sonic results for everyone, and this is not simply the result of what is an unquestionable fact: that we hear differently, describe things differently, have different preferences and thresholds, ages, earwax, volume level preferences, music types for testing gear, time of day (oh, yes!), and more… I had 4 sets (3 re-fits) of ES3X, of which 3 sounded differently. I have 4 friends with UERMs and it seems our sets sound somewhat different, or, as noted, perhaps we're just unable to describe what we hear in exactly the same terms. Or both.
3. Similar things happen with universal IEMs, where fit, seal, tips used, ear/canal shapes vary.
OK, then...
---- Mr HG says, "With the potentiometer tuned down to zero the Angie sounds flat from top to bottom, think neutral. The midrange is dry and at times can boarder on lean based on the source material that is played. When compared to the UERM midrange, the Angie is the flatter sounding of the two but not necessarily the most resolving nor detailed." ——— TBH, I'm not clear about this 'sounds flat from top to bottom, think neutral' thing; then HG adds, "Truthfully, anything past 10 or 11 o’clock on the Angie bass potentiometer was too much bass for me". Now, the bass pot goes from 8 o'clock to 4 o'clock and, compared to the sparrow's UERM's anything lower than 2 o'clock has overall less bass amplitude and impact on my Angies. To these ears, anything below 12 o'clock is decidedly bass light/unnatural sounding and, as a result, the rendering of mid freqs does sound drier/leaner. I've yet to decide whether the perfect setting for me is 1 or 2 o'clock (been favouring the 2 o'clock setting in the last few days). I do, however, on any setting, find the midrange more resolving and layered on the Angies.
---- Mr HG says, "Sound staging for both IEMs was very similar. While I’ve heard far bigger soundstages on other IEMs both the UERM and Angie could be classed as mid-sized bordering on large with the proper source" ——— I personally find the Angies as having slightly better soundstage width and height, but perhaps not depth (not 100% about that one yet, tbh).
---- Mr HG writes, "In contrast, the UERM as an overall package, while bested in certain areas of sound staging was still able to give the slightly better cleaner and crisper overall image when overly busy music where lots of PRAT was demanded and in the end sounded like the more balanced IEM." ——— I've found the Angie, specially on busy passages, more accurate in instrument placement and cleanliness of sound (absolutely no question about that here). The UERM sounds crisper, yes, but a little less natural than the Angies (the former seems a tad boosted overall).
Anyway, as I noted earlier on as best as I could, I do believe some might genuinely prefer the UERMs, and some the Angies. I do feel the UERM (my set) may initially appear more appealing/exciting on first listen, seeming a little more V-shaped within a fairly flat/neutral/reference curve; this may, to some, sound more lifelike. My ears seem to prefer the Angie's curve (whatever it is), which seems flatter and more faithful to the recording, to these ears, and, dare I say, a better all-rounder phone and more, err, well, closer to how things sound in real life (again, taking my own set of UERMs as reference).
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Angie, Layla never heard of them, but these sound and look a lot better. Mr sparrow can think of buying them based on my hype here.
(http://underwateraudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/lil-wayne-beats-diamonds-headphones.png)
(http://www.bestearbudsguide.com/wp-content/uploads/idiamond-earbuds.jpg)
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A few more posts like that and I may well get a pair myself. Do carry on...
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The latest twist in my friend's ongoing Angie saga:
"Okay so… this is absolutely bizarre, but it feels like the channel imbalance went away. Not sure if it’s my brain adjusting to it. I’ve been using them on and off for the last few days so they’ve probably got about maybe… 10-15 hours on them? I’ll have to get the second pair in to see how that one compares.
I just got my FiiO interconnect in today so I’ve got the Leckerton connected to the Geek Out like before. I have way more play with the Leckerton’s pot now since I can control the GO’s output like a line in vs. the internal DAC on the Leckerton which is just too loud off the bat.
Anyway, will spend the coming days getting acquainted with thing. It was just today that I realized the imbalance went away. I must admit, this is a really impressive phone, but I’m not sure I prefer this to the EQ-8 to be honest. It bests the EQ-8 in a few areas (including treble, vocals, overall detail, bass extension), but the EQ-8 is still the more engaging phone to me. The Angie’s midrange is noticeably more laid-back/recessed to me. It honestly does remind me of the 1Plus2 in that respect, which is another phone I struggled to connect with. The EQ-8 is quite a bit more forward, and yet sounds every bit as tall/wide and somehow even more open. Perfect blend of euphonic/technical traits which makes it quite tough to beat."
I haven't heard the Ortofon e-Q8 myself, but at some point in the not so distant future I will be auditioning Mr Uncool's (aka james444's) set. Now, both my friend and The Crass Dude (aka Mr shotgunshane) absolutely love the Ortofons. According to Mr Uncool, though, the Ortofons are a kind of improved ER4S, but in his view not the best universal he's heard (he was never very fond of the ER4S, fwiw). The Ortofons, BTW, apparently are very source dependant due to impedance issues.
Haven't heard the 1Plus2 either, but several people who have heard/owned both it and the K3003 have pointed out the latter's mids were a little more forward/less recessed. FWIW, I (and a number of people) find the tonal balance of the K3003 & HD800 very close — I don't find the Angie's mids more recessed than the Senns or AKGs.
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EQ8 is pretty good, UERM (mine anyway) is better still as my tastes lean toward transparent honesty where possible.
As I posted above somewhere, not surprised the channel imbalance on a new CIEM went away over time. Been there, done that.
I'd also say the 800 being tonally similar to the 3003 is likely more to do with upstream choices than anything. It's simply chameleon. I can make the 800 sound like a poorly sealed ER4S easily with a DACPort or make them more like a richer Noble using a Leben.
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channel imbalance might be due to poor fit?
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EQ8 is pretty good, UERM (mine anyway) is better still as my tastes lean toward transparent honesty where possible.
As I posted above somewhere, not surprised the channel imbalance on a new CIEM went away over time. Been there, done that.
I'd also say the 800 being tonally similar to the 3003 is likely more to do with upstream choices than anything. It's simply chameleon. I can make the 800 sound like a poorly sealed ER4S easily with a DACPort or make them more like a richer Noble using a Leben.
UERM is better than the e-q8 in most respects, but there is 1 the e-q8 excels at: distortion guitars. I listen to a ton of guitar driven rock and the e-q8 gives me the best distortion guitar crunch and bite I've heard. It just brings a smile to my face every time.
My understanding is the Angie is a little between the UERM and e-q8 in forwardness, particularly upper midrange, so it might well be very well fit my preferences like a glove. I'll most likely give the universal a try very soon.
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The latest twist in my friend's ongoing Angie saga:
"Okay so… this is absolutely bizarre, but it feels like the channel imbalance went away. Not sure if it’s my brain adjusting to it. I’ve been using them on and off for the last few days so they’ve probably got about maybe… 10-15 hours on them? I’ll have to get the second pair in to see how that one compares.
I just got my FiiO interconnect in today so I’ve got the Leckerton connected to the Geek Out like before. I have way more play with the Leckerton’s pot now since I can control the GO’s output like a line in vs. the internal DAC on the Leckerton which is just too loud off the bat.
Anyway, will spend the coming days getting acquainted with thing. It was just today that I realized the imbalance went away. I must admit, this is a really impressive phone, but I’m not sure I prefer this to the EQ-8 to be honest. It bests the EQ-8 in a few areas (including treble, vocals, overall detail, bass extension), but the EQ-8 is still the more engaging phone to me. The Angie’s midrange is noticeably more laid-back/recessed to me. It honestly does remind me of the 1Plus2 in that respect, which is another phone I struggled to connect with. The EQ-8 is quite a bit more forward, and yet sounds every bit as tall/wide and somehow even more open. Perfect blend of euphonic/technical traits which makes it quite tough to beat."
I haven't heard the Ortofon e-Q8 myself, but at some point in the not so distant future I will be auditioning Mr Uncool's (aka james444's) set. Now, both my friend and The Crass Dude (aka Mr shotgunshane) absolutely love the Ortofons. According to Mr Uncool, though, the Ortofons are a kind of improved ER4S, but in his view not the best universal he's heard (he was never very fond of the ER4S, fwiw). The Ortofons, BTW, apparently are very source dependant due to impedance issues.
Haven't heard the 1Plus2 either, but several people who have heard/owned both it and the K3003 have pointed out the latter's mids were a little more forward/less recessed. FWIW, I (and a number of people) find the tonal balance of the K3003 & HD800 very close — I don't find the Angie's mids more recessed than the Senns or AKGs.
I did find the channel imbalance strange with Angie. Firstly, sometimes it seemed to be a volume mismatch, but sometimes it seemed to be a instrument&vocal centering problem. It was most present when Angie was so uncomfortable for me. I used th e medium foam tip for the best seal, and initially my ears hurt. Also a lot of cable noise. Then I set out to play with the insertion and rotated the ear pieces to find the sweet spot for fit. Then after about two weeks, thing got better. My ears no longer hurt, and the channel imbalance seemed gone. Also gone the cable noise. To this day the Angies seemed fine for me - but because no one has listened to my Angies, nobody can verify these thoughts. So occasionally I still suspect it's only my ears got used to the imbalance. But when I'm sure the imbalance isn't there, the Angies are immensely enjoyable.
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EQ8 is pretty good, UERM (mine anyway) is better still as my tastes lean toward transparent honesty where possible.
As I posted above somewhere, not surprised the channel imbalance on a new CIEM went away over time. Been there, done that.
I'd also say the 800 being tonally similar to the 3003 is likely more to do with upstream choices than anything. It's simply chameleon. I can make the 800 sound like a poorly sealed ER4S easily with a DACPort or make them more like a richer Noble using a Leben.
Here's hoping this sweet loving sparrow doesn't open a can of worms…
I'm convinced AKG attempted and strived to create an IEM that came, sonically, as close as possible to the HD800s; I think, by and large, they succeeded and though the AKGs are not everyone's favourite, or even that highly regarded by some, I do think they've stood the test of time (3.5 years now) very well, even when they don't come with a detachable cable, one aspect that's certainly prevented several people from acquiring a pair. (FWIW, I sold my TG334, IE800, SE846 and have kept my now 3.5-year-old AKGs)
Now, I don't doubt the HD800s are quite the chameleon, but I maintain that tonally both phones are very close, a view shared by more than a handful of people — no small feat, in my view, for such a small, truly portable phone.
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Here's hoping this sweet loving sparrow doesn't open a can of worms…
I'm convinced AKG attempted and strived to create an IEM that came, sonically, as close as possible to the HD800s; I think, by and large, they succeeded and though the AKGs are not everyone's favourite, or even that highly regarded by some, I do think they've stood the test of time (3.5 years now) very well, even when they don't come with a detachable cable, one aspect that's certainly prevented several people from acquiring a pair. (FWIW, I sold my TG334, IE800, SE846 and have kept my now 3.5-year-old AKGs)
Now, I don't doubt the HD800s are quite the chameleon, but I maintain that tonally both phones are very close, a view shared by more than a handful of people — no small feat, in my view, for such a small, truly portable phone.
Well, you can find more than a handful of people describing the HD800 every possible way. Sure, I don't doubt that people feel that way. Saying the HD800 is closest to the 3003 or was it's target response curve is more of a stretch claim to me. I'd say the K3003 sounds closer to a Beyer T1 than an HD800 based on my ears and also some of the measurements I've seen. The HD800 has more of a treble shelf whereas the 3003 and T1 have more narrow banded treble peaks and both are a little more mid bassy than the 800 which is more neutral and extended. There are other differences beyond FR too but we'll keep it simple for now.
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There are other differences beyond FR too but we'll keep it simple for now.
I was specifically talking about tonal balance, so we can keep it simple for a long while.
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Shoot the sparrow twice
Oh dear, things seem to be going downhill for the mighty Laylas…all the while, Mr proedros, who came here desperate to learn a thing or two about the Angies after having recently acquired the K3003s, is now making enquiries about the e-Q8s (!) after the sparrow's comments in this thread...instead of, or rather than, at least having the decency to thank the humble sparrow for the (rather mediocre) K3003 & Angie comparison Mr proedros had requested — but, then again, Mr Combitoob didn't have the decency, either, to say a quick "Cheers matey" when he wanted the sparrow's take on the Angie review Mr Combitoob had linked to (one has to wonder who Mr Combitoob is)...
So, in the interest of saving the world, ie keep providing my wonderful 21-year-old daughter with a half-decent education, I'd like to kindly ask the following: Would those very reputable & venerable Pirates, as well as Mr Tyll, The Crass Dude, Mr uncool, MuppetFace & tomscy2000 wait a few months (a year perhaps?) until they give their Angie's impressions and/or show all manner of graphs & measurements?
Shills and hypists, after all, are also human beings.
PS: I never had a friend who got a pair of Angies with channel imbalance or laid-back/recessed mids.
http://grooveshark.com/s/It+s+No+Game/3JVGoB?src=5
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Shoot the sparrow twice
Oh dear, things seem to be going downhill for the mighty Laylas…all the while, Mr proedros, who came here desperate to learn a thing or two about the Angies after having recently acquired the K3003s, is now making enquiries about the e-Q8s (!) after the sparrow's comments in this thread...instead of, or rather than, at least having the decency to thank the humble sparrow for the (rather mediocre) K3003 & Angie comparison Mr proedros had requested — but, then again, Mr Combitoob didn't have the decency, either, to say a quick "Cheers matey" when he wanted the sparrow's take on the Angie review Mr Combitoob had linked to (one has to wonder who Mr Combitoob is)...
i forgot to thank you , my bad ahoy
angie looks interesting , but too much money for now
eq8 looks good but someone said it's not worth getting both the eq8 and the K3
decisions.....
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whoops! I'm a med student that has been absolutely swamped lately! I did read your interpretation of the review I linked, and it was much appreciated. I'm sure it took a while to type it all out. A belated thank you!
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Today marks two weeks with the Angies. Further impressions:
Although my (imaginary) friend's set may or may not have channel imbalance (he doesn't seem to be sure), my pair does not. And though he seems to perceive the midrange as laid-back/recessed, my ears clearly tell me this is not the case. I'm wondering whether in my (imaginary) friend's wish to dislike a JH product (not unlike the sparrow in that regard), he got a bit overly excited by SGS and a couple of other people's claims that the Laylas have recessed mids and somewhat hot treble and kinda started hearing the Angies this way. Perhaps his e-Q8s he's been listening to a lot lately, in comparison, have slightly forward mids? The Angie, to him, did sound weird from the get go, but then he kinda warmed up to them and went ahead to get a second set.
Now, with that out of the way, things I've been noticing with the Angies:
Bass, in a nutshell, is brilliant: These have really very good extension and it's great to hear deep low notes without them being overbearing, rattling your brain or sounding loose, particularly in the low bass region (not subbass). The bass has excellent transients, this is a phone that is pretty fast but not too/unnaturally fast, ie note decay is very dynamic-driver like, clean, and with notes very well delineated.
Midrange: I maintain it's superb. Measurements may later show the sparrow has been talking out of his rear end — I'm prepared to lose face and get (plenty of) egg on my, er, face. Not only do I detect plenty of detail and nuances in the midrange—how difficult it is to get this much out this part of the spectrum—, but I've also noticed, surprisingly, that I'm making out lyrics I sometimes had a bit of difficulty with, and, funnily enough, this has happened mostly when I'm not really that focused on the music itself, ie not analysing the sonics but simply enjoying the music...immensely.
Note thickness: This is an aspect that's caught my eye several times because it seems simply awfully right, natural.
No mention of the upper registers because they remain just as impressive as day one. Once again, note thickness, timbre and decay are simply astounding.
I have no doubt the Orpheus, SR-009, Abyss, as well as the LCD XYZABC-1,2,3,4,5, the HD800 with God knows which amp, DAC and respective mod are a step up from the Angie but my ears tell me this IEM is a top, top performing ear/headphone, and a joy to listen to music through them — certainly the best IEM I've ever heard.
http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/Track+09/2GIXun?src=5
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I'm sure many here know Jethro Tull's Aqualung (the album), but perhaps not that many have heard Steven Wilson's 2011 re-mastered edition of this great album. Those who truly appreciate Aqualung should get a copy of this particular edition (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aqualung-40th-Anniversary-Special-Edition/dp/B00EMKVCWO/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top).
The Angies do a mighty fine job rendering the whole album.
http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/Locomotive+Breath/4ginSx?src=5
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music , since i like your posts (you almost single-handedly got me to get K3003) and i get you dig some of the music i dig (intelligent music mostly) , i will give you a heads-up on the best sonic source around these days - save your money on all these hot-shot remasters etc
vinyl rips.
(pm'ed)
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vinyl rips.
(pm'ed)
IMO getting a good remaster makes a far larger benefit in what I hear than getting a 24/96 vinyl rip (if that really makes any difference).
I doubt if you can even get the difference between a CD quality and a 320 (or even 256) mp3 in a proper ABX set-up.
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music , since i like your posts (you almost single-handedly got me to get K3003) and i get you dig some of the music i dig (intelligent music mostly) , i will give you a heads-up on the best sonic source around these days - save your money on all these hot-shot remasters etc
vinyl rips.
(pm'ed)
Hi proedros,
Thanks for the kind words re: my posts and your K3003 purchase.
As for vinyl rips, I honestly don't believe these, even in HI-Res, yield better sonic results than a standard 16/44 CD transfer of the same album, at least in a way that our ears may actually perceive such differences. The few vinyl rips I heard about 5 years ago (at the insistence of a HF'er) were not convincing enough to warrant searching high and low for more of these.
In the case of Aqualung, maaaany years ago I had the UK vinyl pressing of the album; then I got a 2002 (?) re-master of the same album. Although both were very good in the dynamic range department, both versions weren't very good, IMO (read: I loved the music but the sonics left quite a bit to be desired). The 2011 S Wilson re-master may not be as good as far as dynamic range goes (still pretty good, though), but it's certainly a significant improvement (read: you don't need golden ears) over the original vinyl pressing — you can actually hear instruments better, more clearly, in quite a few parts of the album, with more space between the notes, and in many instances instruments sound more realistic. So, in my not so humble opinion, no matter how you rip the original 1971 recording, sonics won't vary (much). I'd very likely take a 192kbps AAC rip of the SW re-master over a FLAC vinyl rip of the original album.
(thanks for the PM)
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My (imaginary) friend has just received his second pair. Here's what he's said so far:
"Some interesting things right out of the box. My remote [the bass dial] for the second pair is in perfect shape. No missing marks on the dial. The pots have a 45 on them (like yours) rather than the 46 that was on mine. The screwdriver that came with the second set is completely different from the first. It’s much smaller and has a white handle. The first set had a longer screwdriver with a blue handle.
Very odd!
What in the hell. So I put the phones on, and realized the fit was much different. This doesn’t feel right I thought. Went to grab the first pair and… the second set is noticeably larger than the first. WTF. They are not physically similar at all. The second set is much larger. I don’t know even… how is this possible? It’s not just the screwdrivers, the damaged letter, but the actual phones? LOL The carbon fiber weave on my second pair looks like shit compared to my first on top of being bigger? Jesus man :l I don’t even
I think I am done with JH man. I have never seen a company give so few fucks, it’s mind boggling. Both sides look like shit. Like they just slapped the thing together, it looks incredibly slipshod.
I am thinking of sending these back to [XXX]. These just look gross and not at ALL befitting of a thousand dollar IEM. Final WTF. These sound MUCH better than the set that I came from. HOLY SHIT, the first pair have completely fucked up centering in comparison. It took all of 2 second to verify this. Vocals are now clearly centered. Sigh… Why… just why.
Jesus, I am laughing my ass off over this entire thing. The first pair looks cosmetically MUCH better, but sounds COMPLETELY fucked up in comparison to the second pair which looks like shit. I HAVE VERIFIED THE EXTENT OF JH’S LACK OF QUALITY CONTROL
WTF man. THIS IS WHAT I WAS EXPECTING of the Angie’s sound when I heard you raving over it. This thing sounds night and day different from the first pair. NO JOKE. God this entire time I drove myself crazy over this whole imbalance thing. Through the two weeks of listening to the Angie, my brain had somehow wrapped itself around the signature and it started sounding almost normal. It’s no fucking wonder the Angie was so incredibly disappointing compared to everything else I had on hand. Crazy what your mind will adjust to given enough time.
I hope [XXX] would understand about this whole thing, but this thing looks like shit compared to the first pair, and I really want to exchange it. Here’s the thing though: what if my second pair looks no better, or worse, sounds like the first pair? This second pair sticks out of my ears like crazy. God what an incredibly frustrating ordeal."
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I am amused
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A bit more entertainment for ya:
"I'll be sending these back, but god damn it dude this entire exercise has been incredibly annoying. The silver lining is that in the 4 minutes that I’ve heard, I’m convinced the SQ will make it worth it. God, so this is what Stockholm syndrome feels like huh? Going to message [XXX] right now"
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"Okay, I’m a few songs in and tested with all of the problematic tracks that the first pair struggled with and I’m sold. No bizarre midrange recession like the first pair, no center image problems, no weird variable sound staging, no weird treble spike, no issues with near sibilance. Everything just sounds right. Good grief. Looks like the sparrow has absolved himself yet again"
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Today my angie's arrived (you're so persuasive)! Since the only headphones we share in common are the hd600 and the angie's, it seems logical to use that as a reference. Straight outta the box, it seems that the hd600's midrange is far more forward, such as in vocals (and if i'm honest a bit more pleasing perhaps because i'm used to that), but the angie's bass and treble have more body (drums sound fantastic). Would you agree with that?
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o forgot to mention, I noticed the difference in midrange forwardness in the song "we've only just begun" by the Carpenters, for comparison.
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Today my angie's arrived (you're so persuasive)! Since the only headphones we share in common are the hd600 and the angie's, it seems logical to use that as a reference. Straight outta the box, it seems that the hd600's midrange is far more forward, such as in vocals (and if i'm honest a bit more pleasing perhaps because i'm used to that), but the angie's bass and treble have more body (drums sound fantastic). Would you agree with that?
Have just A/B'd both phones and, if anything, the Angies are just a tad more forward, overall, and resolving than the HD600s in that part of the spectrum. I used The Carpenters track you used (and also another from my music library).
EDIT: Oh yes, drums sound great on the Angies and snare drums, in particular, sound very right, as these tend to sound somewhat/pretty off with several phones.
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I found that by fiddling with the tips a bit, I was getting a better insertion angle and better sound. In fact, over the last day they've sounded more nuanced as I've accustomed to their sound vs full size headphones. Do you use the stock tips? (I was thinking about ordering some spinfits)
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Been using stock tips since day one. Tried them with Spinfits but preferred the sonics with stock tips, specially on the left earpiece as I got a more secure fit with the latter. Also tried Spiral Dots but they didn't feel right (fit-wise) and were a bit loose-fitting on the Angie's nozzles. Sony Hybrids, though very comfy, have narrower bores than stock tips and don't sound quite as open as stock tips (high freqs suffering a bit as a result).
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I found that by fiddling with the tips a bit, I was getting a better insertion angle and better sound.
Insertion angle is critical to IEMs. People tend to focus on seal only without working on the ideal angle for their ear canal. Long ago, I found I could improve pretty much every IEM by getting the angle just right for me. Usually in then upward at a slant for me. I started wearing most straight bore, drop down hanging large housing IEMs over the ear and upside down so I could get just the right angle. Big difference for me.
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Insertion angle and a seal that doesn't have a vacuum of any sort are keys to getting a good iem sound.
Also, the hard, angled, ribbed tips that were an option with the h8p tour were the bastard children of an anal pear. I wish I had taken a picture of those. Worst tips possible.
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Insertion angle is critical to IEMs. People tend to focus on seal only without working on the ideal angle for their ear canal. Long ago, I found I could improve pretty much every IEM by getting the angle just right for me. Usually in then upward at a slant for me. I started wearing most straight bore, drop down hanging large housing IEMs over the ear and upside down so I could get just the right angle. Big difference for me.
What a relief!! If anyone says the Angies (or K3003s, for that matter) suck, I now know why. <---- insert appropriate smiley/emoticon (I expect to get at least an extra 3003 brownie points <---- insert inappropriate smiley/emoticon)
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So, Da Wiz and his cohorts (aka fanboys, shills and shill-like endearing characters) must be ever so pleased after my (imaginary) friend came out in the open on HF (though I'm sure Da Wiz & Co have been well aware of my quoting my [imaginary] friend's musings all along…) — I certainly would if I was one of them.
Anyway, have just emailed this to a(nother) friend: "The sparrow loves his Angies but isn't exactly proud of owning a JHA product (that's actually no joke), all the more after seeing XXX's saga with two sets."
With that out of the way, I continue to be very impressed with these phones. Radiohead is quite possibly the best band we've seen in the last 20 years or so — a bit of an understatement here for there's really been no band that's been remotely close creatively to Radiohead during all this time (a comment that will no doubt piss those of an 'it's got to be obscure/pretty unknown to be good' inclination (shoot the sparrow again, I say!). Paranoid Android and Reckoner are two tracks rendered brilliantly by the Angies.
As of yesterday Grooveshark no longer exists — one of music_4321's music heroes, a certain Mr Robert Fripp, will certainly not be mourning Grooveshark's demise (and no, in case anyone's wondering, the sparrow finds most prog/art rock, including Yes, ELP, Dream Theater & Rush, and even a good chunk of Pink Floyd's music [actually, are Rush prog too?] dead boring). Shoot the sparrow for good.
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Have just had a good 30-minute A/B session: HD800 vs Angie. Two things stood out on the Angies: Resolution and tonal balance.
Well, what can I say, the Angie's treble and midrange are in a class of their own, to these ears. By contrast, the Senns' mids sound somwwhat recessed and thin—this, along with the fact they're an open-back headphone, makes them have a bigger sense of space—so, the Angie's midrange is clearly not recessed, has thicker note weight and sounds more life-like while not being lush/warm at all.
The treble is extended on the Angies, with plenty of energy, but it just never sounds harsh or strident like the Senns can at times at louder volumes. The wonderful thing about the Angie's treble is that even at moderate volumes the timbral qualities remain excellent, with plenty of very, very convincing sparkle — the UERM's treble sounds a bit smeared in comparison, while the K3003's treble sounds somewhat grainy (something I'd have never thought I'd say about the AKGs...unless directly compared to the Angie's treble, that is, as I've always felt the former's treble, though admittedly rather hot, it remained pretty clean).
Resolution on the Angies is so good that some may perhaps find it a bit much initially. This is not a lean and/or clinical phone. I personally find it very exciting in that, while there's plenty of detail all round, no one frequency seems boosted.
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BTW, I had a listen with the Angies. You must be using extremely unresolving gear with the HD800.
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BTW, I had a listen with the Angies. You must be using extremely unresolving gear with the HD800.
As noted before, my rig is: Late 2011 MBP > V200 (with onboard DAC) > HD800.
Now, I didn't say the Angies were necessarily more resolving (using the same gear, of course), but the resolving qualities of the Angies simply stood out for me, particularly in the midrange & treble, where they sounded more convincing and life-like than the Senns — perhaps my perception of a more linear tonal balance and a heavier note weight account for 'my' findings.
What did you make of the Angies?
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Got it. You are running the HD800s at 3%. I'm sure Anaxilus has already told you that.
I couldn't get a good fit with them. The insertion angle was wrong for my ears. I think I eventually got a good seal with some slight pressure from my fingers holding them in an odd uncomfortable direction. Sounded like UERM + FAD had a baby. Angie sort of sounded smeared in the bass and lower mids.
I actually found the Laylas more neutral (got a better fit). Like a bassier warmer UERM - the warmth intruding into the mids slightly. I liked the Layla. Only thing is that the body of the Layla was sticking out too much.
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I personally use the medium sized sillicone tip and I need to get the end of the sound tube of the Angies to touch the concha of my ears to get a secure seal for me. A tiny bit discomfort but mostly no complaints. Purrin what gears did you use to feed the Angies?
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Sony X alone and with then w/ Leckerton.
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Got it. You are running the HD800s at 3%. I'm sure Anaxilus has already told you that.
I couldn't get a good fit with them. The insertion angle was wrong for my ears. I think I eventually got a good seal with some slight pressure from my fingers holding them in an odd uncomfortable direction. Sounded like UERM + FAD had a baby. Angie sort of sounded smeared in the bass and lower mids.
I actually found the Laylas more neutral (got a better fit). Like a bassier warmer UERM - the warmth intruding into the mids slightly. I liked the Layla. Only thing is that the body of the Layla was sticking out too much.
"You are running the HD800s at 3%. I'm sure Anaxilus has already told you that." —— Does that mean I'm missing 97% of the Senns' sonic goodness? If that's the case, please allow me to be extremely sceptical of such a claim. While I have no doubt I may get a better amp and DAC, which would in turn make my Senns sing better, I honestly wonder just how much better the differences would be. Seriously. There are a number of variables when it comes to describing sonic differences, one being that your, say, 20%, may be a mere 5% to me, or vice versa. But there's more... Then there's the fact I used the same gear to test the Angies, maybe not so relevant as there's other variables there, but still.
Anyway, I've no idea how our UERMs differ sonically. FWIW, we haven't tried the same pair of Angies (JHA being, er, JHA, who knows about product variances in SQ), and then your fit issues/preferences... I'll tell you this, though, my Angie's low end sounds clearly better than my UERM's bass, not only is it more resolving, bass notes are better delineated and tighter, but definitely more linear too.
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I also use ZX1 to Angie on the go but I feel the bass department is particularly weak in this combination. Not the most resolving and lacks the punch. Maybe it's because I use them exclusively on the go and there is much noise. I don't have a Leck or amp of any kind to compare with, but I do feel MBP iTunes - Fulla - Angie sounds more full-bodied and has the punch incoming, though I feel Fulla is still not extracting the most out of Angie. BTW when I feed using ZX1 I like the bass dial at 12 o'clock, and with Fulla the dial should go back a bit to 11 o'clock. I'll have UERMs the next week so I'll report accordingly.
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Anyway, I've no idea how our UERMs differ sonically. FWIW, we haven't tried the same pair of Angies (JHA being, er, JHA, who knows about product variances in SQ), and then your fit issues/preferences... I'll tell you this, though, my Angie's low end sounds clearly better than my UERM's bass, not only is it more resolving, bass notes are better delineated and tighter, but definitely more linear too.
Talk about not knowing how our UERMs differ, I did get to try the Angies and Laylas at the last meet. In fact, it was the first thing I did and I spent as much time with them as possible trying to wring the best out of them. As usual, I brought my rather large tip kit to make sure I could get the best fit possible with demos.
First, the Layla. Without question, compared to the UERM they are noticeably a bit more extended and linear in both directions. The signature response is reference and sounds almost identical to the UERM except for more linear extension on both ends. However, I could not for the life of me get them to have the same level of clarity, imaging, separation, inner harmonics or resolution as my set of UERMs throughout all ranges of the FR. In fact, the JH13FP I almost bought did most of these things better than the Layla but it had other issues I ultimately couldn't get around.
I decided to try them in balanced mode swapping out the cables and using Warren's rig to see if I could improve the separation and imaging. Bass entends lower and treble sounds slightly more rounded rather than mechanical. This certainly helped in those areas but it was still behind my UERMs in all those aspects above. Then I decided to swap the cable on my UERMs to balanced and the gap grew even larger.
So apart from the FR extension advantage, the rest of what makes music involving and enjoyable to me were still better on my UERMs.
Second, I later tried the Angies and they largely sounded like a version of the Laylas but had a weird upper midrange thing going on. I couldn't tell if it was a dip, spike or dip and spike together. Myself and others that tried it found the same thing, we couldn't get rid of the anomaly. I heard claims here about amazing snares, but on these they sounded like overly taught skins verging on sharp and snappy wood block timbre. As far as imaging, clarity, separation, resolution, etc., they sounded no better than the Laylas I described above. I even tried them in balanced like the Laylas but to no avail.
Now the UERM custom I sent back, was blurrier and less resolving than my current modded ones and likely the Laylas and Angies as well. That's why I sent them back. I recall you saying your set sounded a bit different than you recall the demos sounding so I have to wonder.
In the end, my UERMs as I currently have them simply stand above the demo Angies and Laylas I tired. More resolving, more involving, more musical. Compared to my HD800 rig, well...let's not even go there. I wondered out loud to few people if maybe the Layla and Angie just have too many drivers for the crossover network. The lack of clarity and obvious veil just stood out too much to me. The UERM is already less clear than the UE4 and DBA02 but still has decent clarity. But even they were better than the Siren series to my ears and gears. YMMV.
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I'll comment on your post later, but, for now, let me just say that I literally got a hearty laugh (okay, more like a good old chuckle, actually) when I saw this in your sig (don't know how long you've had it): "If you only knew what I know." - Amos/Currawong
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;)
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Thanks for the Layla and Angie impressions plus comparisons with the UERM and HD800, purr1n and Anax!
Also love the Curra quote!
(http://media.techeblog.com/images/funnysigns_2.jpg)
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I spent quite a bit of time with both the Layla and Angie (mainly with the Hifi-M8 and Ifi Micro) at the meet and have to agree with Anax in that they also sounded surprisingly veiled to me. That's not to say that I don't think they sound good, as they both were quite well extended on both ends, the treble on both of the phones sounded great to my ears (the extension without any trace of harshness or sibilance was really impressive to me), and both have a great sense of scale (the Laylas more perhaps). But I think they both had something funky going on in the mids IMO, and they both left me craving a better sense of clarity. Having said this, the fit was awkward for me more so with the Layla than the Angie, but neither was ideal, even after a little bit of tip rolling.
I don't think the pair of Angies that Jude brought are production version. Not sure if there is any difference in terms of sonics between Jude's version and the final production version. Obviously these are just first impressions and those tend to shift after spending more time with any phone, but that is what I came away with after surprisingly getting to spend more time comparing the two phones than I thought I would (just goes to show how much great stuff was at the meet) headbang.
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Talk about not knowing how our UERMs differ, I did get to try the Angies and Laylas at the last meet. In fact, it was the first thing I did and I spent as much time with them as possible trying to wring the best out of them. As usual, I brought my rather large tip kit to make sure I could get the best fit possible with demos.
First, the Layla. Without question, compared to the UERM they are noticeably a bit more extended and linear in both directions. The signature response is reference and sounds almost identical to the UERM except for more linear extension on both ends. However, I could not for the life of me get them to have the same level of clarity, imaging, separation, inner harmonics or resolution as my set of UERMs throughout all ranges of the FR. In fact, the JH13FP I almost bought did most of these things better than the Layla but it had other issues I ultimately couldn't get around.
I decided to try them in balanced mode swapping out the cables and using Warren's rig to see if I could improve the separation and imaging. Bass entends lower and treble sounds slightly more rounded rather than mechanical. This certainly helped in those areas but it was still behind my UERMs in all those aspects above. Then I decided to swap the cable on my UERMs to balanced and the gap grew even larger.
So apart from the FR extension advantage, the rest of what makes music involving and enjoyable to me were still better on my UERMs.
Second, I later tried the Angies and they largely sounded like a version of the Laylas but had a weird upper midrange thing going on. I couldn't tell if it was a dip, spike or dip and spike together. Myself and others that tried it found the same thing, we couldn't get rid of the anomaly. I heard claims here about amazing snares, but on these they sounded like overly taught skins verging on sharp and snappy wood block timbre. As far as imaging, clarity, separation, resolution, etc., they sounded no better than the Laylas I described above. I even tried them in balanced like the Laylas but to no avail.
Now the UERM custom I sent back, was blurrier and less resolving than my current modded ones and likely the Laylas and Angies as well. That's why I sent them back. I recall you saying your set sounded a bit different than you recall the demos sounding so I have to wonder.
In the end, my UERMs as I currently have them simply stand above the demo Angies and Laylas I tired. More resolving, more involving, more musical. Compared to my HD800 rig, well...let's not even go there. I wondered out loud to few people if maybe the Layla and Angie just have too many drivers for the crossover network. The lack of clarity and obvious veil just stood out too much to me. The UERM is already less clear than the UE4 and DBA02 but still has decent clarity. But even they were better than the Siren series to my ears and gears. YMMV.
"Talk about not knowing how our UERMs differ, I did get to try the Angies and Laylas at the last meet" ——— Or talk about how the Angies you tried and my pair differ (!). Or both IEMs, for that matter. Remember my (imaginary) friend's first set not only had a channel imbalance, but he also reported issues with the midrange and treble. Seems his second pair sounds very similar to mine.
As far as you and your friends' similar take on the Angies, there's also the rather awkward fit due to the shells' shape and size. Then the usual, what's your and their tip choice(s), etc., etc.
With regards to James' UERM demo/universal, I liked it enough to order my own set of customs (obviously), the latter of which I ended up enjoying more. I remember having issues with James' UERM's treble having a bit more sizzle up there than I liked. Truth be told, though, I also didn't spend enough time with his pair as the LAB I I'd recently acquired 'demanded' my attention, but when I received my own custom set I didn't have any of the issues I had with James' set. Oh, and the low end on my pair is/was beefier too.
All I know is that with the gear I have, the differences I've mentioned are there. Although I'm pretty sure some would favour the HD800s presentation (with my gear), I doubt many would prefer the UERMs I've got over the Angies, err, I have.
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I should note that I was comparing both JH phones to IEMs that I am very familiar with and took to the meet (Kaede II and CK100Pro), and others I know well like the er4pt etc. All of which produce a somewhat artificial sense of clarity (maybe the er4pt less than the others) to me that may make both the JH models seems a little lacking in that department when ABing them.
The treble extension coupled with the non fatiguing presentation of the Layals and Angies is fantastic IMO. It sounded very natural, extended, and detailed without sounding tizzy or etchy, something that cannot be said for a lot of high end IEMs in my experience. But as a total package, neither JH phone made me want to go out and pick one up.
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Alas, my Angies went for repair today. The fault conditions have really got somehow out of control this morning. The right channel muted for a while. Then the left channel dropped half of the volume for some minutes. Then when I plugged them into Fulla as usual, the left channel showed an absurd amount of noise. Holy crap. So I went to the local dealer and he agreed to send them back to JH. I knew JH for having a reputation of QC, but ... should I feel lucky compared with the HF folks who experienced far worse stuff?
Anyways, I'd want to ask (if JH is returning a new unit) whether I'd just get another universal pair ... or (if possible) pay the difference and get the custom?
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Hey Griffon, sorry to hear about your issues with your Angies — here's hoping you get a new, fully-working set pretty soon.
Now, when you get your new Angies, don't let Anaxilus convince there's something wrong with your UERMs if you end up preferring the JHAs. And don't allow that awful sparrow to trick you into thinking there's something wrong with your new Angies if you prefer the UEs!
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LOL, I'm not a hard-liner to specific standards...my preference and major setting of listening is probably (read:absolutely) drastically different from Anaxilus's. And Sparrow's. And my standards are probably on the very soft side of the spectrum here. BTW UE emailed me today that my set was out. So I'm expecting them to arrive pretty soon.
I'm guessing that Angie is more of a complementary unit to UERM, at least for me - Angie to my ears is far more forgiving, even my Alclair Reference is more merciless against bad recordings. But hey, I do need the forgiveness, when I listen to a lot of fantastic marvellous golden crap on Nicovideo.jp - they are just armatures and I can't expect Capitol Studio recording level. I also need Angie for a lot of other situations. But when I'm in the classical mood, with good recordings like Sheffield Labs or some Decca, some Karajan Gold, then I guess it would be the chance for UERMs to shine. There shouldn't be a real "preference" for me.
I need a fucking IEM harem to serve my inconsistent music desire.
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LOL, I'm not a hard-liner to specific standards...my preference and major setting of listening is probably (read:absolutely) drastically different from Anaxilus's. And Sparrow's. And my standards are probably on the very soft side of the spectrum here. BTW UE emailed me today that my set was out. So I'm expecting them to arrive pretty soon.
I'm guessing that Angie is more of a complementary unit to UERM, at least for me - Angie to my ears is far more forgiving, even my Alclair Reference is more merciless against bad recordings. But hey, I do need the forgiveness, when I listen to a lot of fantastic marvellous golden crap on Nicovideo.jp - they are just armatures and I can't expect Capitol Studio recording level. I also need Angie for a lot of other situations. But when I'm in the classical mood, with good recordings like Sheffield Labs or some Decca, some Karajan Gold, then I guess it would be the chance for UERMs to shine. There shouldn't be a real "preference" for me.
I need a fucking IEM harem to serve my inconsistent music desire.
Haven't heard the Alclair Reference, so can't comment on those.
My own pair of Angies is not excatly what I would call a forgiving IEM…at all — certainly not compared to my UERMs, ER-4S, F111s, EX800 or HD800s. Merciless? Hmmm, my Angies do tell me when something's not recorded well, but—and let's get ready to shoot the sparrow yet again—a good reference phone will make most recordings 'palatable', ie even poor recordings should sound fairly decent (or not as bad), otherwise perhaps one part of the spectrum is (overly) boosted, usually the upper midrange and/or lower treble. Phones like the EX1000, FIBASS, FIBASB, HD800, K3003, and at times the ER-4S, can make certain recordings not very palatable. I don't get this with my UERMs. But, hey, my 'palatable' can be your 'utter crap'.
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Haven't heard the Alclair Reference, so can't comment on those.
My own pair of Angies is not excatly what I would call a forgiving IEM…at all — certainly not compared to my UERMs, ER-4S, F111s, EX800 or HD800s. Merciless? Hmmm, my Angies do tell me when something's not recorded well, but—and let's get ready to shoot the sparrow yet again—a good reference phone will make most recordings 'palatable', ie even poor recordings should sound fairly decent (or not as bad), otherwise perhaps one part of the spectrum is (overly) boosted, usually the upper midrange and/or lower treble. Phones like the EX1000, FIBASS, FIBASB, HD800, K3003, and at times the ER-4S, can make certain recordings not very palatable. I don't get this with my UERMs. But, hey, my 'palatable' can be your 'utter crap'.
Holy moly... I'll eat everything I just said. Please pardon my being inexperienced.
First thing first, as the Sparrow has said "a good reference phone will make most recordings 'palatable', ie even poor recordings should sound fairly decent (or not as bad), otherwise perhaps one part of the spectrum is (overly) boosted, usually the upper midrange and/or lower treble." Now I can see my troubling misunderstandings - because Angies made music more 'platable', I had the wrong sense that Angies are more 'forgiving'. I don't mean I did not get what's wrong going with the recordings with Angies, I meant that Angies draw me into music, but AR draw me into analyzing the music. I guess the latter is not a good sign.
So I just received the UERMs and am using them while I'm typing this. Short impressions directly out of zx1, 1/3 of the volume bar. Angies are still going for repair and N4 are at home so no serious AB, comparisons are from unreliable memory.
- I don't get the whining of UERMs being bass light.
- Flat. Just flat.
- Nice extensions on both sides. Higher midrange and lower treble don't have the spike and glare like AR or N4. But when called for definitely has the thing going. Certainly a wonderful thing in my book.
- Feels thick. Depth. Body. Imaging. Makes N4 utterly 2-D (which I felt from time to time). Hard to say against Angie.
- Low level information extraction. At least on par with Angie if not slightly better.
- The decay. THE DECAY! It's a different experience.
After the Angies are back I'll post further impressions.
Edit: I'm already pretty confident that I'll be in love with UERMs.
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a good reference phone will make most recordings 'palatable', ie even poor recordings should sound fairly decent (or not as bad), otherwise perhaps one part of the spectrum is (overly) boosted, usually the upper midrange and/or lower treble. Phones like the EX1000, FIBASS, FIBASB, HD800, K3003, and at times the ER-4S, can make certain recordings not very palatable. I don't get this with my UERMs.
You and I are totally on the opposite side of this argument my friend. Reference=accurate and there are simply a lot of bad recordings out there that in no way should sound 'palatable'. Reference audio should offer greater tonal contrasts using the same material, more resolution, more dissection but ultimately more musicality. The Yggdrassil is a perfect example of this and so is a proper HD800 and UERM rig. If good and bad mastered recordings sound closer to each other, like the track we went through before in this thread, that is forgiving euphony, not accuracy. If your phones make every single recording ever mastered palatable, that's simply an inaccurate device and not something I'd call 'reference'. Clearly our definition of 'reference' is coming from alternative perspectives.
My .02 cents. YMMV.
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You and I are totally on the opposite side of this argument my friend. Reference=accurate and there are simply a lot of bad recordings out there that in no way should sound 'palatable'. Reference audio should offer greater tonal contrasts using the same material, more resolution, more dissection but ultimately more musicality. The Yggdrassil is a perfect example of this and so is a proper HD800 and UERM rig. If good and bad mastered recordings sound closer to each other, like the track we went through before in this thread, that is forgiving euphony, not accuracy. If your phones make every single recording ever mastered palatable, that's simply an inaccurate device and not something I'd call 'reference'. Clearly our definition of 'reference' is coming from alternative perspectives.
My .02 cents. YMMV.
I have many recordings that I can't personally stand—stand from the point of view of how compressed and loud they are and me simply wishing they had been recorded differently. What I meant by 'palatable' is that at least a (close to) reference phone will show you what's there. Period. This, to me, often translates as bad recordings sounding simply bad (just as they are). A stock HD800, K3003, FIBASS, EX1000 can make bright and compressed recordings sound even worse or a hell of a lot worse (EX1000). A warm phone will make these recordings more bearable or okay while making a lot of well-recorded music sound veiled, thick/lush, muddied and so on. On the whole, to put it another way, a reference/neutral phone is a better all-rounder.
This—and sorry to say this—has very little, if at all, to do with a particular HD800/UERM rig.
The recording we compared earlier in this thread showed differences, yes, but like I said to Griffon, maybe to you certain differences are huge—you prefer to describe them as huge, whereas I don't.
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This—and sorry to say this—has very little, if at all, to do with a particular HD800/UERM rig.
Sure it does. If you upstream isn't transparent and is built around euphonic slush and goo, the transducers will no longer be reference quality. They may be capable of being such, but they will be not be performing as such. Usain Bolt may be the fastest man alive, but if you feed him Dairy Queen 4x's a day for 6 months, his 0-100 time will no longer be reference.
By your definition, if I can discern differences in tracks using iBuds then they are reference.
I also think you are attributing too much of what I call reference performance to brightness and discounting the many other areas where they excel beyond 99.9% of the gear out there.
Based on your impressions and comments about the Angies, UERM, HD800, and your test methodolgy I really don't think we are hearing those tracks the same way and just choosing to label the differences in varying degrees of personal preference. I think we don't hear those tracks the same simply based on what I've been reading. Of course, I could be wrong, as usual. ;)
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By your definition, if I can discern differences in tracks using iBuds then they are reference.
Rather curious interpretation/extrapolation of my definition.
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What I meant by 'palatable' is that at least a (close to) reference phone will show you what's there. Period. This, to me, often translates as bad recordings sounding simply bad (just as they are)......On the whole, to put it another way, a reference/neutral phone is a better all-rounder.
I suppose I'm misconstruing what you said then. It just seems to me iBuds are perfectly capable of meeting those conditions is what I mean by that.
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I find the idea of reference quite troubling, and I don't like it that today lots of products are being labelled reference. I did a search on Schiit, Eddie Current and Cavalli, and I didn't find a single 'reference' word used. I am very curious and I wish Jason can tell us why he and Mike Moffat don't use the word 'reference'.
To me 'reference' is a much more difficult idea than 'revealing'. If something is reference, it not only tells you what's wrong with the recording, but also tells you how much the wrong is.
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I suppose I'm misconstruing what you said then. It just seems to me iBuds are perfectly capable of meeting those conditions is what I mean by that.
Okay, you know I think the Earpods are actually a pretty good phone (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1546.0.html), so, in actual fact, they're indeed a pretty good all-rounder. But, we're talking about phones that are closer even to reference/balanced/neutral. These better phones will have better extension than the Earpods, for instance, though the Earpods are still pretty good in the freqs they cover. The $50 Tenores are even better and a brilliant all-rounder, in fact.
To me, reference/neutral/balanced is (as close to) not interfering with what was actually recorded, ie the less coloured/more linear a phone, the closer it is to being called reference/neutral.
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Anax is saying use better gear. HD800 from mobo out to V200 is like having me drive F1 car with 4 cylinders not working.
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How's this one sound out of the Angie? There is an edginess/sibilance in her voice that sounds natural to me, and part of the information in the recording. Could just be me though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7paoM2cghjI&index=5&list=RDBwu6bZDRWOM
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Anax is saying use better gear. HD800 from mobo out to V200 is like having me drive F1 car with 4 cylinders not working.
Oh, but I've got the message LOUD and CLEAR a number of times, alright, but this sparrow remains very sceptical that the difference between the MBP > V200 and other source(s) and amp(s) would be as significant as you both suggest. Why the scepticism? Well, that's a different story for a different time.
Still, the point I was originally making was that I simply don't think my Angie should be regarded as a forgiving phone, nor my UERM as the most ultra revealing phone. I find my own pair of Angies—with my gear (MBP, AK240, 5G Touch, V200)—a bit more resolving than the UERM.
Kinda going round in circles at this stage...
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How's this one sound out of the Angie? There is an edginess/sibilance in her voice that sounds natural to me, and part of the information in the recording. Could just be me though.
The "edginess/sibilance" is definitely there but it doesn't sound natural to me, certainly not as natural as the David Sylvian track I posted earlier in this thread.
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Here's a pattern I've noticed over the years (this is not directed at anyone in particular):
Find someone who's got a review sample (or freebie) and and all the raving and gushing will be guaranteed.
Audition in a shop or at a meet and, particularly those not intending to purchase the product, well…guess you can guess the outcome.
Then there's those poor souls like the endearing sparrow, who won't review a product (even when having been approached in the past to do so) and has no access to audio shops or meets to audition most of the gear often discussed on these forums… Hard to get genuinely honest impressions in this case, too, as one (often unconsciously) tends to rationalise expensive purchases and fool…
And then there's something called sheep & group mentality, peer pressure, but that's another fascinating subject… Gotta love the sheer number of so-called reviewers and audio gurus/authorities we see these days, along with their arse-licking followers — oh, the wonders of the Internet and copy & paste!
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Here's a track most revealing phones I've heard have a hard time making this song truly enjoyable — upper mids and treble being quite problematic. Warm phones obviously fare better but fail with so many other tracks/albums. The Angie does very, very well with this track (brilliantly, actually).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJaAUyK-kNU
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Okay, tell me what Paranoid Android sounds like on your Angies and that will tell me everything I need to know.
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It sounds pretty awful. Creep is, in fact, the only Radiohead track that sounds ok with the Angies.
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The "edginess/sibilance" is definitely there but it doesn't sound natural to me, certainly not as natural as the David Sylvian track I posted earlier in this thread.
Perhaps natural is not the right word. I meant natural in the sense that it is part of the information in the recording (mic, distance from mic, lips, teeth, etc.)
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Yes, definitely a result of the recording.
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Here's a track most revealing phones I've heard have a hard time making this song truly enjoyable — upper mids and treble being quite problematic. Warm phones obviously fare better but fail with so many other tracks/albums. The Angie does very, very well with this track (brilliantly, actually).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJaAUyK-kNU
No phones make this one sound good to me :)p17 :boom:
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That's what impressed me, in this case, about the Angies, as other revealing phones make this track very difficult for me to listen to (at higher volumes). The only way, with my other revealing phones, to enjoy this track is/was to, er, turn the volume down.
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That's what impressed me, in this case, about the Angies, as other revealing phones make this track very difficult for me to listen to (at higher volumes). The only way, with my other revealing phones, to enjoy this track is/was to, er, turn the volume down.
Haha I meant that I don't think this track is very good as a piece of music. But that's just me. I agree with you though that the Angies have very good treble. It's the first thing that I noticed when I auditioned them. They were very impressive in that regard; seemingly being able to render minute treble detail without glare or what have you.
Now, let's get to some good Radiohead tracks (IMHO of course :)p4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbKQPqs-cqc
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That's what impressed me, in this case, about the Angies, as other revealing phones make this track very difficult for me to listen to (at higher volumes). The only way, with my other revealing phones, to enjoy this track is/was to, er, turn the volume down.
This is a difficult song for me to listen to at any volume. And I'm Thom Yorke. The solo acoustic one is much better than this version. It's like you can hear the whole band trying to ruin the song by being sappy.
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Thread split here: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2397.0.html
Back on topic you rascals.
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Last week I get a surprise email from a very good friend:
"Well, a certain sparrow's speedy key-pecking over on changstar finally encouraged a certain XXX to spring for a pair of Angies. I hope to have them early to mid next week."
A few hours ago I got the following:
"The Angies are here. What a great box opening experience! These are up there with the prettiest phones I have seen. And I was unaware they included the balanced cable, great surprise! Needless to say, they sound absolutely fabulous and will definitely tide me over until I get the UERMs back. However they might easily become my favourite phone in the meantime (only have about 30 minutes on them so far). It is fantastic that their low level detail is excellent since I am still resting my right ear from higher volumes, though they sound so good I must resist the temptation to turn them up. Bass, at the stock setting [2 o'clock in his case] is really, really nice."
My friend has the UERM and has owned several TOTL earphones and headphones (LCDs, HD800s, TH900s, and I believe he once owned a pair of Orpheus, too).
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Last week I get a surprise email from a very good friend:
"Well, a certain sparrow's speedy key-pecking over on changstar finally encouraged a certain XXX to spring for a pair of Angies. I hope to have them early to mid next week."
A few hours ago I got the following:
"The Angies are here. What a great box opening experience! These are up there with the prettiest phones I have seen. And I was unaware they included the balanced cable, great surprise! Needless to say, they sound absolutely fabulous and will definitely tide me over until I get the UERMs back. However they might easily become my favourite phone in the meantime (only have about 30 minutes on them so far). It is fantastic that their low level detail is excellent since I am still resting my right ear from higher volumes, though they sound so good I must resist the temptation to turn them up. Bass, at the stock setting [2 o'clock in his case] is really, really nice."
My friend has the UERM and has owned several TOTL earphones and headphones (LCDs, HD800s, TH900s, and I believe he once owned a pair of Orpheus, too).
The only errata is that I have never owned a pair of LCDs. Everything else the sparrow says is true (I can add hd650, hd600, k3003, er4s, dita, jh13, jh16 to this list, etc. Not bragging only adding context). Been listening to the Angies all day now. Hate to praise them as much as the bird does, because I have had two terrible customer service experiences with JHA, but my ears (and fingers) cannot lie, this is a special set of phones. Truly superb from top to bottom. To the point that resting my overstimulated right ear has taken a backseat to enjoying the wonderful sound these iems produce at higher volumes. And I thought the LAB Is were the end of my iem journey. Now I know there is no end...
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The only errata is that I have never owned a pair of LCDs. Everything else the sparrow says is true (I can add hd650, hd600, k3003, er4s, dita, jh13, jh16 to this list, etc. Not bragging only adding context). Been listening to the Angies all day now. Hate to praise them as much as the bird does, because I have had two terrible customer service experiences with JHA, but my ears (and fingers) cannot lie, this is a special set of phones. Truly superb from top to bottom. To the point that resting my overstimulated right ear has taken a backseat to enjoying the wonderful sound these iems produce at higher volumes. And I thought the LAB Is were the end of my iem journey. Now I know there is no end...
Sparrow, how do you think of the Dita Truth BTW
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Didn't own the Truth, but the Answer. I sold it within 3 days.
Very nice bass and good mids, but I had issues with the treble, which I found a bit too hot and grainy. They reminded me of the K3003s tonally, but I preferred the AKGs. Got the Answer because I never bought into the whole cable thing with the Truth. Didn't like the overkill cable of the Answer, btw.
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Impressive rendering by the Angies of (23-minute track) A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers off VdGG's masterpiece, Pawn Hearts. I'm now sounding like a broken record, but...the tonal balance, resolution, layering, midrange, treble performance, and rendering of percussion instruments is just superb. Quite an immersive experience.
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Well.. update is here.
The dealer told me that it appears that JH/AK is neither able to repair nor supply a replacement for my Angie, and a full refund seems inevitable.
I guess it's just JH/AK being JH/AK... The dealer joked that 'if I planned my business like them I'd go bankrupt in a week'
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Sorry to hear that, Griffon. Hopefully, the refund isn't a problem.
I have a jh ciem and bought one for a friend, but I'd really leave JH to the fanboys.
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I do like the sound of Angie A LOT, but at this point even though I can get a full refund and find some other place that have stock to buy the Angie again, I'm afraid I want to avoid the hassles of potential failure/waiting time/etc.
Kunlun, I would agree to leave JH for the fanboys ... my distaste of JH/AK combo seems to be growing. I would stop whining in the Angie thread and possibly move on to the JH appreciation thread.
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...I'd really leave JH to the fanboys.
Oh dear...
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Only a very good, neutral-type, phone—like the Angie—manages to extract—and salvage!—plenty of sonic goodness from this otherwise pretty difficult track to enjoy (from a sonic standpoint):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKoiKC9WoPc
Having rather poor recordings to test (good) phones is always a very good idea — well-recorded tracks sound, err, very good on virtually any phone!
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In keeping with the spirit of this thread (mostly a one-man/sparrow show), and for the benefit of non-audiophile recordings, here's the best version of I wanna be your dog I've heard…rendered very, very aptly by the Angies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXqwWFdJjZo
Yours,
A JH Fanboy (Messrs Jerry Harvey & Jerry Springer being my heroes)
PS Great sub-bass performance by the Angies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYaUCcHLbAc
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Only a very good, neutral-type, phone—like the Angie—manages to extract—and salvage!—plenty of sonic goodness from this otherwise pretty difficult track to enjoy (from a sonic standpoint):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKoiKC9WoPc
Having rather poor recordings to test (good) phones is always a very good idea — well-recorded tracks sound, err, very good on virtually any phone!
Enjoyed this track quite a bit. Thanks :)p5
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Stellar rendering of this track (top to bottom) by the Angies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=savx6aY0nEw
On a separate note, this sent to a very good friend a little while ago:
"Funny how the now "much maligned" Angies sound so good to me (K3003 dejavu)....and yet there seems to be virtually no interest in them — that's good news for the hype-averse sparrow, but pretty odd for a JH phone. I can think of (and think I know the) several reasons why this is so, but still rather curious nonetheless.
Hopefully Mr JH and A&K get their shit together...eventually (!!). Oh, and there's the new AK380...with endless posts by—surprise, surprise—Mr 'I'm So Polite And ALWAYS Wish You All The Very Best", aka Mr XXX, on the dedicated thread — gotta 'admire' XXX's relentless f*cking irritating posts—irritation only matched by the deafening silence by the HF Gods/sacred cows when any sort of f*ck-up by the likes of JH or A&K is all too obvious.)"
-The Grumpy One
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You are not alone. I have Angie (and Roxanne). Love them both, but they are like night and day.
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The Ballad of John and Yoko—a brilliant Beatles track—sounds almost basshead on the Angies (!) (Paul's bass was intentionally prominent on the mix on this track), and the Angies, here, show excellent extension in the low registers...with a midrange to match the excellent performance of this phone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCyMx9Cmkxs
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Mr. Sparrow, if you are familiar, a quick comparison with the FAD FI-BA-SS?
Thanks! Kevin
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Kevin, I'll get back to you on Monday, when I'll be able to A/B both phones.
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With that out of the way, I continue to be very impressed with these phones. Radiohead is quite possibly the best band we've seen in the last 20 years or so — a bit of an understatement here for there's really been no band that's been remotely close creatively to Radiohead during all this time (a comment that will no doubt piss those of an 'it's got to be obscure/pretty unknown to be good' inclination (shoot the sparrow again, I say!). Paranoid Android and Reckoner are two tracks rendered brilliantly by the Angies.
As of yesterday Grooveshark no longer exists — one of music_4321's music heroes, a certain Mr Robert Fripp, will certainly not be mourning Grooveshark's demise (and no, in case anyone's wondering, the sparrow finds most prog/art rock, including Yes, ELP, Dream Theater & Rush, and even a good chunk of Pink Floyd's music [actually, are Rush prog too?] dead boring). Shoot the sparrow for good.
actually Porcupine Tree > Radiohead (which, imho are quite overrated)
also Rush boring ? you should try their 80s album , bro - the guys are simply amazing
cheers :-)
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I understand where the sparrow is coming from. For the ruling elite, Rush is simply too popular and unpretentious to be enjoyable. Heck, if you listen to AC/DC you must have a negative IQ. Where's that music IQ chart? Heck, if you've ever heard Beethoven's 5th (He's off the chart), apparently you transform into Stephen Hawking. Then again, if you listen to Cannibal Corpse, you also literally transform into Stephen Hawking.
(http://img.labnol.org/di/music-makes-you-dumb.png)
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I understand where the sparrow is coming from. For the ruling elite, Rush is simply too popular and unpretentious to be enjoyable. Heck, if you listen to AC/DC you must have a negative IQ. Where's that music IQ chart? Heck, if you've ever heard Beethoven's 5th (He's off the chart), apparently you transform into Stephen Hawking. Then again, if you listen to Cannibal Corpse, you also literally transform into Stephen Hawking.
Heh, I've never heard a song that's made me want to dig deeper into Rush. Just put 5-6 of their first albums on my playlist. So far, quite boring straight forward rock'n'roll. Am I a dick wannabe elitist for saying that?
I don't know about the chart, but like literature, some music just has more interesting content. I'm not sure if the means is to seek more challenging music, but being open to it let's you enjoy a wider variety of genres. I'm sort of a hypocrite though, since I usually pick the groovy stuff instead for daily enjoyment. Though I liked stuff from Radiohead in my teens, it became boring as the majority of available music in that it seems to only seek originality through soundscapes but not necessarily musically. Similar to how different kind of digital synthesizers and stuff streamlined popular and other music from the end of 70s: producers started nitpicking on sound rather than encouraging musicians to try new stuff.
Whenever I return to something like Grand Wazoo or Waka/Jawaka, I'm just in awe even after listening to those albums for the past 15-20 years. But I see how some people see Zappa as highly pretentious, and as Pekka Pohjola put it when Zappa asked him to join his band: "too much bullshit"
Oops, too much effort into derailing the subject. Thought we were somewhere else.... So, decided to go for UERM regardless of the Sparrow's excellent marketing. Maybe it was the comment about Radiohead that tipped me over to the other side ;) ... Just kidding.
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Derailing update:
Fly by Night is more engaging already. Hope the progression through album chronology keeps this way. :)p5
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Derailing update:
Fly by Night is more engaging already. Hope the progression through album chronology keeps this way. :)p5
i see you dig the jazzy sruff of zappa , so yeah maybe rush are too 'normal' for you
as for rush , everyone raves about their 70s stuff , but imho the really interesting stuff begins after Moving pictures (1981)
their 80s run (moving pictures-signals-grace under pressure-power windows) is fantastic, if you can click with their seemingly 'cheesy' approach with the use of lots of synths.
i like the 70s stuff (farewell to kings - hemispheres - permanent waves) , but i think moving pictures is where they really become amazing.
cheers
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actually Porcupine Tree > Radiohead (which, imho are quite overrated)
also Rush boring ? you should try their 80s album , bro - the guys are simply amazing
cheers :-)
I like Porcupine Tree, and Steven Wilson is undoubtedly a very talented musician (I like plenty of his solo stuff). But, regardless of their popularity—which seems to really piss off plenty of people—Radiohead, to me, are a better, more creative and innovative band, and I find Thom Yorke an even more talented/creative musician than than Mr Wilson, and with a better voice, too.
Rush I simply find boring and fairly formulaic, but if you think they're great, that's cool. There's pleeeenty of people who don't like King Crimson or find them unbearable — I'm cool with that, too.
Now, "bro"?!
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Mr. Sparrow, if you are familiar, a quick comparison with the FAD FI-BA-SS?
Thanks! Kevin
The Angies have more body, a fuller and more layered sound, with a clearer, more resolving, midrange, with thicker and more natural note weight; the fibass' midramge sounds a bit recessed and thinnish in comparison. The top end on the fibass sounds a bit grainy and peaky compared to the Angies; the latter's upper registers are more refined, extended and with better timbre. The Angie's low end is clearly more extended.
The Angies, to these ears, are, without a doubt, the better phone.
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i see you dig the jazzy sruff of zappa , so yeah maybe rush are too 'normal' for you
as for rush , everyone raves about their 70s stuff , but imho the really interesting stuff begins after Moving pictures (1981)
their 80s run (moving pictures-signals-grace under pressure-power windows) is fantastic, if you can click with their seemingly 'cheesy' approach with the use of lots of synths.
i like the 70s stuff (farewell to kings - hemispheres - permanent waves) , but i think moving pictures is where they really become amazing.
cheers
I won't stop at 70s then, good to know.
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I'm not a big Rush fan but do enjoy several of their songs with Ayn Rand's Objectivism inspired lyrics.
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I'm not a big Rush fan but do enjoy several of their songs with Ayn Rand's Objectivism inspired lyrics.
took me YEARS to finally click with them , i had huge respect for them but considered them 'boring' prog rock band
then one day , their 80s stuff simply clicked with me and now i consider them one of my favourite bands
their run from '77 farewell to kings till their '87 hold your fire holds remarkably well , imho
but there is a distinct change of music direction between their 70s and their 80s stuff - i like both and having many good/great albums to choose from is fantastic , rotation-wise
again , if you tried something and didn't like it , it's cool
as for the ayn rand bit, i read 'the fountainhead' a few years back - i thought Howard Roark was a character taken out of a 70s movie - fantastic character and his love story with the chick was really awesomely written
i have atlas shrugged piled up now for years but its size always stops me from starting it
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as for the ayn rand bit, i read 'the fountainhead' a few years back - i thought Howard Roark was a character taken out of a 70s movie - fantastic character and his love story with the chick was really awesomely written
i have atlas shrugged piled up now for years but its size always stops me from starting it
Read Anthem. That's the book I understand to have inspired Peart and many Rush themes and lyrics. It's a very short book but an excellent read; shouldn't take more than a couple of hours. I believe now adays Neil considers himself a small L libertarian rather than Objectivist. Sorry to drift so far off topic.
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Despite rumours to the contrary, this
Rush Angie thread is alive and well.
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Here's something that will no doubt please The Crass Dude (aka Mr shotgunshane), a person with a pretty questionable music taste: Honky Tonk Women (by The Stones) sounds absolutely superb through the Angies — the midrange and high freqs really take the cake (the whole spectrum is rendered brilliantly, really). It just sounds absolutely right.
proedros, you might want to check out this thread: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2459.0.html
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That blows my nose and my mind.
Hope to hear these one day.
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So, here's a post that will likely help no-one, but here goes, anyway.
Been spending the last 3 days comparing my FAD LAB I and Angie and, though no doubt our dear (top) Pirates and audiophiles alike would choose the Angie’s sonics over the LAB’s, I’ve come to the conclusion that I prefer the latter.
Might me an impedance issue, after all, where the LABs simply shine with the AK240 (and V200). Basically, what it boils down to is that the LABs sound more natural, with a wonderfully more natural and meatier midrange and, to these ears, more natural treble performance and excellent natural decay down low, not to mention the great cohesive sound coming from this dual-BA crossover-less phone. The LABs, from day one, always had a very analogue-type sound (I know, I myself don’t like it when people use terms such as “analogue”, “musical” and the like…) that made them a pretty unique phone, though not one that grabbed me instantly.
So, as much as I love the Angies, the LAB I, once again, takes the number one spot as the best phone I’ve heard to date.
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I stumbled across this place while reading an article posted on Innerfidelty. I see some names that have been absent from HF for quite some time. I have not been active there posting other than selling and buying a few things. I just purchased the Angie universal from Drew and it should be here Wednesday. I am curious to hear the impressions from some people that have been straight forward in the past (lack of shill). I appreciate this thread and the one concerning the Noble 4. I owned those last year and eventually sold them. I liked them, but never loved them. I was ready to receive a Savant universal from the Wizard birthday sale when I read the thread concerning the N4 measurements here. I cancelled that order and the accompanying balanced cable I ordered for the Mini M8. I almost bought the nobility in not revealing the internal composition of the Savant, but something nagged at me. I am now crossing my fingers that I receive a set of Angies with a beautiful finish and without any other QC issues.