CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Non-Audio Stuff => The Geek Cave: Home Theatre, Computers, and More! => Topic started by: Marvey on March 01, 2015, 01:10:26 AM
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Some of you guys know that I ditched my iPhone. Now I can't get messages on my new phone (Android) from Apple phones. The messages still go to my old phone (iPhone). It turns out that Apple wants everyone to use Apple shit by forcing iMessage between Apple devices. The only way to undo this is to follow some arcane process to deregister iMessage:
http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204270 (http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204270)
https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage (https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage)
Apple is ghey. You have been warned.
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I like Apple more than I hate them, or hate Android more than I hate Apple. And even though I’m pretty well entrenched in the Apple hardware ecosystem and enjoy the rewards of it, I’ve always tried to keep things like mail, notes, browsers, and password managers platform agnostic in case I did have to jump ship one of these days. But sadly, I do use iMessage. Apple should really fix this. It sounds borderline illegal. Texting is more vital than phone calls these days. I see it as a utility rather than a convenience or feature.
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deregister iMessage
Apple would not know you left the iMessage community. (they will store and forward blue bubbles for you).
If the other side is mindful, they would notice the lack of "delivery receipt" and resend as text.
Unless, Apple polls your device & email you to check if you left the iMessage world... which sounds ridiculous by itself.
The same is also true of, say, Kakao, or we chat. If I left Kakao, it will not forward text messages to my new phone without their app.
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Why would you leave Apple? We have worked long and hard to build a perfect home for you here. Stay with us.
Why would you leave Apple? We have worked long and hard to build a perfect home for you here. Stay with us.
Why would you leave Apple? We have worked long and hard to build a perfect home for you here. Stay with us.
Why would you leave Apple? We have worked long and hard to build a perfect home for you here. Stay with us.
Why would you leave Apple? We have worked long and hard to build a perfect home for you here. Stay with us.
Why would you leave Apple? We have worked long and hard to build a perfect home for you here. Stay with us.
Why would you leave Apple? We have worked long and hard to build a perfect home for you here. Stay with us.
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I always have one student every year challenge me on the Apple v. PC/Android debate. I always win. :)p3
Truth be told, I don't have Apple. I just think their prices are silly (on the laptop front mostly) and their reputation for reliability is completely overblown.
Marv, which phone did you end up going with?
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Why would you leave Apple? We have worked long and hard to build a perfect home for you here. Stay with us.
1) Wife's iPhone screen broke (dark part in one corner) from slight impact.
2) Cannot play multiple accounts in Clash of Clans (accounts/maps are tied to Google accounts).
3) Apple Maps sucks - cannot change default - increases potential of accidents or myself being murdered as I venture into the wrong parts of El-Lay.
4) Apple text correction is retarded.
5) Apple voice recognition is retarded.
6) iOS updates keep changing shit.
7) Siri does not work as for as it does for Samuel L. Jackson in that commercial.
8) Steve Jobs is dead, thus ensuring the iOS shit will get even more stale.
9) I don't have run around the house looking for specialty USB power adapters.
10) My wife and kids can accidentally drop the Xperia Z3s in the tub, toilet, or spill tea on them without them being destroyed.
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1) Wife's iPhone screen broke (dark part in one corner) from slight impact.
2) Cannot play multiple accounts in Clash of Clans (accounts/maps are tied to Google accounts).
3) Apple Maps sucks - cannot change default - increases potential of accidents or myself being murdered as I venture into the wrong parts of El-Lay.
4) Apple text correction is retarded.
5) Apple voice recognition is retarded.
6) iOS updates keep changing shit.
7) Siri does not work as for as it does for Samuel L. Jackson in that commercial.
8) Steve Jobs is dead, thus ensuring the iOS shit will get even more stale.
9) I don't have run around the house looking for specialty USB power adapters.
10) My wife and kids can accidentally drop the Xperia Z3s in the tub, toilet, or spill tea on them without them being destroyed.
Nonsense!
(http://randomstringofwords.com/images/2010/02/apple_fanboy.jpg)
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1) Wife's iPhone screen broke (dark part in one corner) from slight impact.
2) Cannot play multiple accounts in Clash of Clans (accounts/maps are tied to Google accounts).
3) Apple Maps sucks - cannot change default - increases potential of accidents or myself being murdered as I venture into the wrong parts of El-Lay.
4) Apple text correction is retarded.
5) Apple voice recognition is retarded.
6) iOS updates keep changing shit.
7) Siri does not work as for as it does for Samuel L. Jackson in that commercial.
8) Steve Jobs is dead, thus ensuring the iOS shit will get even more stale.
9) I don't have run around the house looking for specialty USB power adapters.
10) My wife and kids can accidentally drop the Xperia Z3s in the tub, toilet, or spill tea on them without them being destroyed.
Don't forget to add crappy battery life. I changed to motorola 2 years ago, and discovered I can actually have 2 days of autonomy with a smartphone. Don't know about Iphone 6, but up to 5 it was abysmal.
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Don't know about Iphone 6, but up to 5 it was abysmal.
Battery life on the 6+ is phenomenal. Admittedly I'm not a consistent heavy user. But others in the office agree.
I'd like to throw one thing in for Apple- their lighting cable. I remember putting off getting devices with this connector when everything was 30pin. But now I think it's the best thing evar. Whoever invented micro-USB should be walk the plank2 (along with the guy who thought it would be a good idea to put touch screens on the back of airplane seat headrests.) With micro-USB, it's bad enough that there isn't any standard "up" on the devices. But apparently there aren't any standards when it comes to size and fit either. If I went Android, I'd be looking for one with Qi charging. It works awesome on my Nexus 7.
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Battery life on the 6+ is phenomenal. Admittedly I'm not a consistent heavy user. But others in the office agree.
I'd like to throw one thing in for Apple- their lighting cable. I remember putting off getting devices with this connector when everything was 30pin. But now I think it's the best thing evar. Whoever invented micro-USB should be walk the plank2 (along with the guy who thought it would be a good idea to put touch screens on the back of airplane seat headrests.) With micro-USB, it's bad enough that there isn't any standard "up" on the devices. But apparently there aren't any standards when it comes to size and fit either. If I went Android, I'd be looking for one with Qi charging. It works awesome on my Nexus 7.
Micro-usb isn't standard ?!? I've always come across devices that are compatible.
Agreed that induction charging is just the best.
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Z3, I see. The charging dock is a must!
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Micro-usb isn't standard ?!? I've always come across devices that are compatible.
Heh... should've put an /s after that. ;) I'm just saying that the level of precision in the connectors and receptacles is almost nil on many devices and cables. So half the time even though I have it aligned and oriented correctly, the plug won't go in. I feel like each time I charge something, I run the risk of breaking that connector or tweaking it even more.
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Heh... should've put an /s after that. ;) I'm just saying that the level of precision in the connectors and receptacles is almost nil on many devices and cables. So half the time even though I have it aligned and oriented correctly, the plug won't go in. I feel like each time I charge something, I run the risk of breaking that connector or tweaking it even more.
Gotcha. But in all fairness, you can't really compare the quality standards of 1 company against multiple ones. No wonder Apple can get it right, they're alone in making the connectors. The 30pin connector was more akin to the micro-usb, had to fiddle around with it quite some.
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I'm just saying that the level of precision in the connectors and receptacles is almost nil on many devices and cables. So half the time even though I have it aligned and oriented correctly, the plug won't go in. I feel like each time I charge something, I run the risk of breaking that connector or tweaking it even more.
And how about USB3? I have a portable HDD which is only ever used with it's own, supplied, USB3 cable, but still the socket shell and that silly little knub are getting deformed.
With the micro-usb phone sockets, the trouble comes when I forget which manufacturer fits their socket upside down! :)p2
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6) iOS updates keep changing shit.
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I had a motorola Defy+. Motorola never provided any updates. I was mostly fine with that, because I was happy with it anyway. Update fever is mostly just update fever/
I have an Asus Fonepad. Asus cares: they are issuing upgrades for firmware and software. An upgrade gave me Android "KitKat." Now Google, not me, decides what can and can't be written to my sdcard. The Android garden is not entirely unwalled, and it isn't all roses.
Still, I have never set foot in the Apple garden, and never intend to, and I certainly do not want Microsoft in my pocket. I cannot imagine hating Android more (as mkubota1 puts it) than I hate mictrosoft. I'm no google lover, but I detest microsoft.
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I loved the initial concept of the Asus phone pad with tablet as an extension for the phone.
Apple is okay for now. I still have my old Nokia though :)p8
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Holding a 7-inch Fonepad to one's ear.... It can be done! If it would fit in a shirt pocket, I'd probably say "to hell with looking silly: never stopped me doing anything before..."
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Apple is ghey.
And you're either homophobic, bigoted, 12 years old, or some combination of the above. Seriously, Marv, it's 2015. Get a clue.
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He said ghey, not gay. Fag.
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I see once again it will be up to my suave diplomatic skills to set things straight. Doh! facepalm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2a/FAGS_Candy_cigarettes_%28pre-1990s%29.jpg)
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And you're either homophobic, bigoted, 12 years old, or some combination of the above. Seriously, Marv, it's 2015. Get a clue.
ghey <> gay. ghey = a derivation of gay meaning lame. meant to be non-offensive to individuals of a homosexual persuasion.
As you said, it's 2015. Get a clue.
I MEAN WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT ME TO FUCKING DO? BE SO FUCKING POLITICALLY CORRECT? WTF MAN? I TRY TO BE POLITICALLY CORRECT AND YOU GODDAMN WACKO LIBERALS JUST HAVE TO FIND FAULT WITH FUCKING EVERYTHING WITH YOU ASSHOLES WANTING TO BE THE WORD POLICE. FUCK OFF. EVERY FUCKING MINUTE I HAVE TO FUCKING WALK ON EGGSHELLS JUST TO NOT ACCIDENTALLY PISS OF SOMEONE. WTF, CAN'T CALL PEOPLE HANDICAPPED NOW? (ONE OF MY COUSINS IN TAIWAN CALLED THE "CRIPPLE" HAPPENS TO BE THE MOST SUCCESSFUL IN HIS IMMEDIATE FAMILY. BEING CALLED THE "CRIPPLE" WAS PROBABLY A FUCKING BLESSING FOR HIM BECAUSE IT PREVENTED HIM FROM JOINING GANGS / MAFIA LIKE THE REST OF HIS BROTHERS.) OPEN A DOOR FOR SOME FUCKER IN A WHEELCHAIR AND GET FUNNY LOOKS IN RETURN? YOU WHITE LIBERALS HAVE CALLED ME "ORIENTAL", DO YOU HEAR ME GIVE YOU GUYS SHIT FOR THAT? I MEAN FUCK YOU MAN. AND WHY THE FUCK SHOULD I HAVE TO ATTEND DIVERSITY TRAINING AT WORK WHEN I TEND TO HANG AROUND WITH THE INTERNATIONALS (GHANIANS, MEXICANS, NIGERIANS, INDIANS, SERBS, AND WHITE-OUTSIDER GEEKS)? DID THE TRAINING LADY MAKE THINGS RIGHT FOR ME WHEN WHITE, BROWN, AND BLACK KIDS MADE SLANTY EYE GESTURES AT ME IN THE 1980S? OH WAIT, I NOW GET FUCKING CORRECTED FOR REPORTING A SUSPICIOUS "BLACK" PERSON LOITERING AROUND A WOMEN'S RESTROOM IN SAN FRANCISCO. BECAUSE THE OFFICIAL TERM IS "AFRICAN". FUCK ALL YOU WORD POLICE FUCKERS. BUGGER OFF! HOW THE FUCK WE DID SUDDENLY BECOME SUCH A GHEY SOCIETY?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ghey (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ghey)
https://www.facebook.com/pages/so-ghey/249037295108697 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/so-ghey/249037295108697)
http://queersunited.blogspot.com/2011/03/word-of-gay-ghey.html (http://queersunited.blogspot.com/2011/03/word-of-gay-ghey.html)
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Maybe Marv really thinks Apple should just take it up the ass. popcorn
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Or open a bed and breakfast in the white mountains.
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Apple: "No one needs a screen larger than 3.5." Everyone starts buying 4"+ phones. Apple makes 4" phone. Apple: "No one needs a screen larger than 4." Everyone starts buying 5"+ phones. On and on it goes.
Apple sues over things like scroll bounce. Meanwhile, Apple flatout STEALS the notification shade from Android. When you do it, your a THIEF, and we will hunt you down and destroy you. When WE do it, hey whatever, like, standards, man. Or something.
I remember what smartphones were like in 2006, they were horrible. Nokia was worlds better than BBOS, WinMo, and PalmOS which were all stuck in the stone ages, but come on, let's not kid ourselves. Symbian was no great shakes. iOS at launch was genuinely innovative. Since then... crickets. They made it bigger, then smaller, even though they said they would "never" make a small iPad. Yeah, right up until the Nexus 7 started drinking their milkshake.
Apple in the post Jobs era is fumbling around, reacting to others. The 6 and 6+ are reactions to existing Samsung products, except the 6+ has none of the Note functionality. It's just a big iPhone or a small iPad Mini, they're all the same. Nobody thinks what can we do with this form factor, just make it bigger and make it smaller. Make it gold, that will sell.
Next, Apple will shock the world with the Apple watch, which will do exactly what existing smart watches have already done for quite awhile, just locked in to the Apple eco system! For more money! YEAH!
Next comes the Apple car, because Google is doing a car so ME TOO!
Apple: pay the most money for the fattest bezels in town.
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_2FPvHFLSOI/hqdefault.jpg)
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Personally, as a someone who tends to favor minimal regulation, I believe there should be only one rule wrt political correctness. White people should not be allowed to comment on race, gender or sexual preference unless presented as an explicitly rude and funny joke. Clearly there is a biological component to how the lack of melanin in whitey's skin makes them more susceptible to increased thermal and UV induced neurological damage, hence increasing their receptivity to liberal views like political correctness. If we observe various climate models, we can see a direct correlation to the rise of global temperatures over time and a proportional increase in political correctness over the same period. Obviously science and the empirical data clearly demonstrate that an increase in liberalism is a direct product of increasing cow farts (methane production).
The end is near, time to prep.
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(http://www.armchairsurvivalist.com/armchairlogo2.jpg)
Ready!
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I was taught political correctness the hard way in 1987 at Citibank. My first job and within 3 months I was reported to HR for discussing "dark skin". And I was reported by an African-American security lady to boot. The context was: I was chatting with my consultant (a white lady) and my assistant Tony (African American) about the varying skin colors of Indians living in India. I am from South India where people do have darker skins. The lady heard the reference to dark skin but not the South Indian part of it. That's it. Next thing I know I am summoned by HR. The HR person interviewed the three of us and just waved the whole thing off. Later the security lady told me: "If you want to have these conversations, have them behind closed doors". I told her that doing that would make a racist person. She mumbled her apologies and never saw me again.
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(http://www.armchairsurvivalist.com/armchairlogo2.jpg)
Ready!
Lol, Oakland!
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Apple: "No one needs a screen larger than 3.5." Everyone starts buying 4"+ phones. Apple makes 4" phone. Apple: "No one needs a screen larger than 4." Everyone starts buying 5"+ phones. On and on it goes.
Apple sues over things like scroll bounce. Meanwhile, Apple flatout STEALS the notification shade from Android. When you do it, your a THIEF, and we will hunt you down and destroy you. When WE do it, hey whatever, like, standards, man. Or something.
I remember what smartphones were like in 2006, they were horrible. Nokia was worlds better than BBOS, WinMo, and PalmOS which were all stuck in the stone ages, but come on, let's not kid ourselves. Symbian was no great shakes. iOS at launch was genuinely innovative. Since then... crickets. They made it bigger, then smaller, even though they said they would "never" make a small iPad. Yeah, right up until the Nexus 7 started drinking their milkshake.
Apple in the post Jobs era is fumbling around, reacting to others. The 6 and 6+ are reactions to existing Samsung products, except the 6+ has none of the Note functionality. It's just a big iPhone or a small iPad Mini, they're all the same. Nobody thinks what can we do with this form factor, just make it bigger and make it smaller. Make it gold, that will sell.
Next, Apple will shock the world with the Apple watch, which will do exactly what existing smart watches have already done for quite awhile, just locked in to the Apple eco system! For more money! YEAH!
Next comes the Apple car, because Google is doing a car so ME TOO!
Apple: pay the most money for the fattest bezels in town.
(http://i.imgur.com/9Zv4V.gif)
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ghey <> gay. ghey = a derivation of gay meaning lame. meant to be non-offensive to individuals of a homosexual persuasion.
As you said, it's 2015. Get a clue.
I MEAN WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT ME TO FUCKING DO? BE SO FUCKING POLITICALLY CORRECT? WTF MAN? I TRY TO BE POLITICALLY CORRECT AND YOU GODDAMN WACKO LIBERALS JUST HAVE TO FIND FAULT WITH FUCKING EVERYTHING WITH YOU ASSHOLES WANTING TO BE THE WORD POLICE. FUCK OFF. EVERY FUCKING MINUTE I HAVE TO FUCKING WALK ON EGGSHELLS JUST TO NOT ACCIDENTALLY PISS OF SOMEONE. WTF, CAN'T CALL PEOPLE HANDICAPPED NOW? (ONE OF MY COUSINS IN TAIWAN CALLED THE "CRIPPLE" HAPPENS TO BE THE MOST SUCCESSFUL IN HIS IMMEDIATE FAMILY. BEING CALLED THE "CRIPPLE" WAS PROBABLY A FUCKING BLESSING FOR HIM BECAUSE IT PREVENTED HIM FROM JOINING GANGS / MAFIA LIKE THE REST OF HIS BROTHERS.) OPEN A DOOR FOR SOME FUCKER IN A WHEELCHAIR AND GET FUNNY LOOKS IN RETURN? YOU WHITE LIBERALS HAVE CALLED ME "ORIENTAL", DO YOU HEAR ME GIVE YOU GUYS SHIT FOR THAT? I MEAN FUCK YOU MAN. AND WHY THE FUCK SHOULD I HAVE TO ATTEND DIVERSITY TRAINING AT WORK WHEN I TEND TO HANG AROUND WITH THE INTERNATIONALS (GHANIANS, MEXICANS, NIGERIANS, INDIANS, SERBS, AND WHITE-OUTSIDER GEEKS)? DID THE TRAINING LADY MAKE THINGS RIGHT FOR ME WHEN WHITE, BROWN, AND BLACK KIDS MADE SLANTY EYE GESTURES AT ME IN THE 1980S? OH WAIT, I NOW GET FUCKING CORRECTED FOR REPORTING A SUSPICIOUS "BLACK" PERSON LOITERING AROUND A WOMEN'S RESTROOM IN SAN FRANCISCO. BECAUSE THE OFFICIAL TERM IS "AFRICAN". FUCK ALL YOU WORD POLICE FUCKERS. BUGGER OFF! HOW THE FUCK WE DID SUDDENLY BECOME SUCH A GHEY SOCIETY?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ghey (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ghey)
https://www.facebook.com/pages/so-ghey/249037295108697 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/so-ghey/249037295108697)
http://queersunited.blogspot.com/2011/03/word-of-gay-ghey.html (http://queersunited.blogspot.com/2011/03/word-of-gay-ghey.html)
Thanks for clarifying that. Now I know the answer to my question.
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Maybe Marv really thinks Apple should just take it up the ass. popcorn
You need anal lube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9b7AmC0Uac
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I'm actually very sensitive to the lesbian-gay-transgendered community. Heck, I've never made a single joke about Bruce Jenner at work, although I cannot say the same for my white co-workers: "he, she, it"... so rude. It's always the white people.
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Usually the people who joke around about people of other sexual orientations have their own range of issues. Sometimes ignorance and sometimes culture plays a role.
For the people who keep joking around about the homosexuals you can give them one statement to silence them: "did you know the prostate is quite the peculiar thing, did you try it?"
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did you ever try the prostate sounds like something you ask at a Korean BBQ.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcja4WFFzDw
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Political correctness was consigned to the wastebasket on Wall Street (at least when I was working there). Everything - culture, gender,skin color, persuasion - was fair game.
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That being said, there are, obviously, sensitivities associated with these words that not everyone appreciates.
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Sometimes, more important than words is what's behind them.
So far, I like Apple, but not married to it at all. Like my 4S, but it's definitively not perfect. Once it dies I may consider an Android phone next.
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Political correctness is not liberal. Political correctness can serve as a protective device (you can think what you want, just be careful what you say) and it can also serve as a way to mock genuine issues.
Political correctness is not liberal: political correctness is a set of formulae (You will not say, write, or use in any way, any of the following words. Sign here). Liberal is intelligent, and requires thought. Thought recognises that there is power in language and a two-way interaction between what we say and what we think.
That has been Thad's Thought For The Day. :)p7
I've never heard or read the word ghey before. I wondered. But I trust Marvey's knowledge of current American usage, because I have never been there, don't currently watch TV or films from any nation and... if it isn't in a Grateful Dead lyric then I haven't a clue. And even if it is, I probably misheard it or didn't have a clue anyway.
(getting lyrics on the PC while listening is a mind blower to someone who's hearing was far from perfect even at 20-something!)
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Nick, for the Brits, there's Google...trust but verify (as Marv would say).. :)p13
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So, kothganesh, in the unlikely event of my ever working in, or even visiting, an American office, it would not be wise to make my preference for dark-skinned women public? But gentlemen are still allowed to prefer blondes? (http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FGentlemen_Prefer_Blondes_%25281953_film%2529&ei=Gxn0VJC3J4uXuAS18oGABg&usg=AFQjCNFNRWynaxfla3AKtmccZMxFm1ivcQ&sig2=T-xQJbmYgx9qIbJtqt1jeg)
p:/
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So, kothganesh, in the unlikely event of my ever working in, or even visiting, an American office, it would not be wise to make my preference for dark-skinned women public? But gentlemen are still allowed to prefer blondes? (http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FGentlemen_Prefer_Blondes_%25281953_film%2529&ei=Gxn0VJC3J4uXuAS18oGABg&usg=AFQjCNFNRWynaxfla3AKtmccZMxFm1ivcQ&sig2=T-xQJbmYgx9qIbJtqt1jeg)
p:/
A gentleman can eloquently state his preference for women of a certain physical description and state this preference as a personal preference.
Stating a preference is not the same as using judging language vocabulary like: good, bad, ugly, beautiful, attractive, unattractive etcetera.
The simple "I like ..." or "I prefer ..." suffices. You can even quote Shakespeare and people will consider you extra gentlemanly.
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So, kothganesh, in the unlikely event of my ever working in, or even visiting, an American office, it would not be wise to make my preference for dark-skinned women public? But gentlemen are still allowed to prefer blondes? (http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FGentlemen_Prefer_Blondes_%25281953_film%2529&ei=Gxn0VJC3J4uXuAS18oGABg&usg=AFQjCNFNRWynaxfla3AKtmccZMxFm1ivcQ&sig2=T-xQJbmYgx9qIbJtqt1jeg)
p:/
p:/ is always the safe option...
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p:/ is always the safe option...
Works for ISIS, why not America too? Nous sommes daesh. Huzzah!
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Applause due... but I wish we could attach it to individual posts.
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Speaking of political correctness, here's what the mayor of Taipei said recently:
For [the world's] four Chinese-speaking regions -- Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Mainland China -- the longer the colonization, the more advanced a place is. It's rather embarrassing. Singapore is better than Hong Kong; Hong Kong is better than Taiwan; Taiwan is better than the mainland. I'm speaking in terms of culture. I've been to Vietnam and mainland China. Even though the Vietnamese are seemingly poor, they always stop in front of red traffic lights and walk in front of green ones. Even though mainland China's GDP is higher than that of Vietnam, if you ask me about culture, the Vietnamese culture is superior.
I can see all the liberal thought / word police going "oh my god, colonization victim complex..."
From my perspective, I love what he said because it's brutally honest assessment of Asians in that area. The liberals would take it that he's praising colonization; whereas in reality, he's actually asking for a very in-depth / introspective assessment of Asians by themselves. The word "culture" isn't a good translation, but what he means is "cultured", i.e. not cutting in line, not spitting in the street, not being loud and annoying, not having conniptions by opening emergency doors in airplanes, etc. (I've seen some mainland Chinese pull off this sort of rude behavior in Hollywood and tourist spots in Taiwan). The context is "it's rather embarrassing." He's saying: why is it that we Asians can't get our shit together and need colonizers to teach us how to act appropriately and not like a bunch of curmudgeons? It's a pointed self-criticism / realistic self-assessment.
Of course being Taiwanese with rightful fear of PRC considering the recent events in Hong Kong, he's also shitting on PRC. There's also a belief among many Taiwanese that the mainland Chinese cultures (excluding HK) and the Taiwanese cultures (culture - not personal mannerisms) are too different. Keep in mind that Taiwan was a colony of Portugal, the Netherlands, and Japan. Also more nuanced is that some Kuomingtong lifers love to accuse anti-KMT people as Japanese collaborators or being part Japanese. For the most part, Taiwanese see Japan in a positive light - which is very very different from the PRC.
I'm use to these kinds of frank conversations happening all the time in Asian homes without self-censorship or word police. It's refreshing not to have a word filter on your back all the time (thankfully I'm bilingual - and only the English processor has the embedded censor chip.) And the views above, which I do personally subscribe to, do not prevent me from being friends with mainlanders, or trying to help individuals from the mainland get jobs to stay in the USA, etc. (after I verify they are not spies.)
I took me a while to understand why Americans are so nervous about this stuff. White people enslaved the black men, killed all the red men, and put the yellow men in concentration camps. Let's not even get into what happened in Europe. Hence I like what Anax had to say: white people shouldn't be allowed to comment on matters of race, gender, or sexual orientation unless it's something clearly mean-spirited.
Too frank of the discussion? Yeah - this is Changstar after all.
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Just in case people take things the wrong way, and they always do:
The doors to the Museum of Tolerance in El-Lay.
(http://agile-and-testing.chriss-baumann.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/prejudiced-1024x682.jpg)
I went straight to the red door. My wife (white and liberal) started heading to the right door... but after 15 years of marriage to me, she knew better and corrected herself.
P.S. Since I now live in the valley, I've noted Jewish people like to speak of "Persians" and Persians like say "Jews". I have no beef in any of this, but I find it amusing, and actually refreshing. At least they are honest. Let's not get into the Palestinian / Israeli thing which usually ends up like this:
(http://my10online.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Let_That_Be_Your_Last_Batt2.jpg)
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My ex-girlfriend was from Hong Kong. Even in the Netherlands there was a cultural difference between the Mainland Chinese and the Hong Kong Chinese and she sometimes talked about it.
Hong Kong Chinese seem to have something against the Mainland Chinese and it is complex. One thing I do understand based on friendships and work relations: the Mainland Chinese can be as rude as English tourists (which are some of the worst, personal experience) and not notice it all.
Disclaimer, I am Dutch and half Hindu. Among the Dutchies you have the cultured ones with manners and the "farmers" and "provincials" who behave like zombies craving beer and loud music. I grew up with both experiencing rudeness, discrimination, racism and stupidity. In the end you simply state your limits and teach them a lesson they remember. I had to do that several times...
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God, I love this thread.
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Somewhat relevant, and I absolutely love these:
http://youtu.be/rkRdIss11PY
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Hong Kong Chinese seem to have something against the Mainland Chinese and it is complex. One thing I do understand based on friendships and work relations: the Mainland Chinese can be as rude as English tourists (which are some of the worst, personal experience) and not notice it all.
People in every country along the periphery of China have something against mainlanders. Tibetans (no, Tibet is not part of China), Malay, Singaporeans, Hong Kongers, Taiwanese, Vietnamese (how many times has China tried to invade Vietnam only to get their asses kicked?) Heck, even the Shanghainese tend to identify themselves as different, especially from northern China / Beijing. The Shanghainese who I know tend to identify themselves first and foremost as Shanghainese rather than Chinese.
It's really not that complex. Part of it is politics and concern of China hegemony. Part of is cultural as the mayor of Taipei alluded to. I don't know if the mass of Chinese were always culturally backward, but Mao's Big Leap Backward and Cultural Confusion probably didn't help. The fact is, China is a huge huge country where the most of it - still - is just a morass of shit.
My relatives who live in Taiwan and Hong Kong see China mainlanders as how Mexicans see Guatemalans. (Guatemala is known as the "Mexico" of Mexico).
And yes, there is a Guatamelan and Mexican among the founding members of Changstar. :-)
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End of the day most folks are looking for a better life.
LOL! If this commercial was from Apple it would proly be more appropriate, but Bud Light will have to do... IMO too funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yBymdwvesA
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And yes, there is a Guatamelan and Mexican among the founding members of Changstar. :-)
Yup. My lawn is fucking immaculate!
Hey! I just $$ to Disney to watch McFarland USA so shut yo face!! :)) :)p17
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Marvey, there is one thing I have noticed about the Chinese people in Singapore: they are the polite ones. They are the ones that behave like I was taught to in 1950s UK. They say thank you when you open the door for them, and sorry when they walk into you by accident. It's not that other Singaporeans are necessarily rude, but, for me, this stands out with the Chinese. Didn't Singapore change entirely after the Japanese kicked out the Brits in WW2? I didn't study the history, just read one novel.
So far as the effects of colonisation are concerned, Singapore and India were both colonies, but their development since could not be more different. I have to admit that I have stood and looked at the clean, ordered streets of Singapore and wondered why India did not end up like that.
I'm white, British, and I live in India. I'd swear that, sometimes, my wife thinks I'm just a dumb foreigner ...and that pisses me off.
<This thread is so busy that every time I click submit I get a warning-new-post-has-been-added>
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People in every country along the periphery of China have something against mainlanders. Tibetans (no, Tibet is not part of China), Malay, Singaporeans, Hong Kongers, Taiwanese, Vietnamese (how many times has China tried to invade Vietnam only to get their asses kicked?) Heck, even the Shanghainese tend to identify themselves as different, especially from northern China / Beijing. The Shanghainese who I know tend to identify themselves first and foremost as Shanghainese rather than Chinese.
It's really not that complex. Part of it is politics and concern of China hegemony. Part of is cultural as the mayor of Taipei alluded to. I don't know if the mass of Chinese were always culturally backward, but Mao's Big Leap Backward and Cultural Confusion probably didn't help. The fact is, China is a huge huge country where the most of it - still - is just a morass of shit.
My relatives who live in Taiwan and Hong Kong see China mainlanders as how Mexicans see Guatemalans. (Guatemala is known as the "Mexico" of Mexico).
And yes, there is a Guatamelan and Mexican among the founding members of Changstar. :-)
I once studied the history of Vietnam and Japan. All I know is that China should be considered its own sub-continent like Russia. To delve into the details takes too long.
Also, post-Lenin all "communist" or "socialist" party leaders sort of idolised Stalin. Stalin was a monster in human form so the fact that Mao failed is no surprise for me. At least Mao kind of came to his senses when the Russian party theory did not work.
Too bad the "revolutions" Mao led emphasised destruction as a condition for change. Just like Stalin he was responsible for millions of deaths.
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Lol, Mao came to his senses when Nixon threw tons of $$$$$ at China and gave them the opportunity to not be Russia.
A few things...
Size and complexity are a few. Remember, Singapore is essentially a small City/State with a homogenous society. India is one of the most religiously, culturally, and linguistically diverse countries on earth. You could go to many parts of the country where people don't identify as being 'Indian'. Defining what a Hindu is is just as difficult.
Politically speaking, Singapore went with the authoritarian sort of benevolent dictator approach to capitalism. India has had a long and weird flirtation with a sort of pseudo democratic communism coupled with extreme corruption which just promotes stagnation and confusion. Culturally, India also seems to have a higher tolerance for what many would find socially unacceptable behavior and living standards due to the old caste system. Plus the British splitting the country along religious lines led to instability and many wars in Kashmir and Bangladesh. Certainly doesn't help anything.
I met a guy that said he once played golf with Prime Minister Lee and asked him what was one the keys to Singapore's success. Supposedly PM Lee said to him they make sure the politicians are some of the most well payed (millionaires) and respected figures in their society ensuring they get the cream of the crop (best and brightest) to run the country. Thought that was an interesting comment.
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This thread makes me glad I'm Jewish
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P.S. Since I now live in the valley, I've noted Jewish people like to speak of "Persians" and Persians like say "Jews". I have no beef in any of this, but I find it amusing, and actually refreshing. At least they are honest.
Actually, I have also lived here, and Persians refer to Jewish folks as "Kalimi" if they are Persian Jewish. And yes, the rest are just referred to as "Jews". I never found either side to take issue with how they referred to each other.
And a large percentage of Jewish folks in middle east and even Israel are of Persian descent. TBH other than the governments, Jewish and Persian folks get along just fine.
PS: I'm of Russian and Persian descent.
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Anaxilus, I generally agree with your comments about Singapore and India, but... is Singapore homogeneous? Even the announcements on the Metro are in about four languages, and none of them are "native" to Singapore: Chinese, Tamil, Malay etc. And those communities seem to be, by majority, rather separate.
(I have not lived or worked in Singapore, but made quite a few visits to family living there).
Looking at the post-colonial thing: Britain had sucked India dry. They entered a wealthy country and left it broke. Singapore was still a wealthy trade hub --- but didn't everything get smashed in the WW2 anyway?
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is Singapore homogeneous?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore
From the '60's to today, you're talking about going from about 80% Chinese to 75% Chinese over 50+ years. That's pretty homogeneous in my book. Besides, if you are a minority group there and have a problem with how the majority does things, you probably are going to have a BIG problem with caning or deportation. Singapore is not going to pander to a vocal minority.
Once again, it's only the whiteys that would let people who hate their countries and respective ideals move in, establish no-go zones and let them antagonize and take over. White liberal guilt is a tremendous weakness to be exploited. What's sad and ironic is it's inherently narcissistic like Evangelicals spreading the gospel are just trying to get themselves into heaven. Neither is founded on any reason or logic.
Anyway, Singapore doesn't and can't supply basic resources. It's a highly elevated economy. Not too dissimilar from other wealthy but resource poor nations like Britain and Japan who are resource limited by virtue of being islands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Singapore
The only resource rich island nation I can think of is Indonesia and maybe Australia if you are into mining that vast desert and outback. Indonesia cuz they have like 400 freaking islands with tons of palm trees that are sitting on oil .
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End of the day most folks are looking for a better life.
For sure, I can see why some dudes want to move to the US, Canada, Australia, Japan and so on, becasuse I'm one of those. :)p13
It's sad to work and study a lot, and then pay tons of taxes, live with a shitty public safety, with politicians taking all the money and etc. I think in my case is even sadder, I live in Brazil, this place is fucking rich, tons of natural resources, people that love to buy things, and well it's all wasted. :(
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Singapore = Verhoeven's Starship Troopers.
Gotta serve in military, unless you are super smart, then you gotta do public service, just like Doogie Howser xeno-biologist in Starship Troopers.
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Also, post-Lenin all "communist" or "socialist" party leaders sort of idolised Stalin. Stalin was a monster in human form so the fact that Mao failed is no surprise for me. At least Mao kind of came to his senses when the Russian party theory did not work.
Animal Farm is a near perfect summation of the decline of Trotsky's idealism in favor of the brutal dictatorship that emerged under Stalin and Vyacheslav Molotov. I don't think you could accuse Khrushchev of "idolizing" Stalin though. That's a key difference between post Stalinist Russia and say North Korea. You don't decide to change the name of Stalingrad (and everywhere else bearing his name, and take him out of the national anthem) if the guy is your personal hero.
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Khrushchev claimed to have killed Stalin himself, personally.
$150 fine for not flushing a toilet in Singapore. $1000 for littering.
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Lee Kuan Yew = competent Palpatine.
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Anax: i never heard of anyone who actually got fined for not flushing here.
Thad, you're right that announcements on the metro are in various languages in my country. Of those 4 languages (English, mandarin, Malay, Tamil) it can be argued that Malay is the original language of the island--chinese and Indians and definitely Europeans only came to Singapore later, due to sea trade.
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I figure no one knows Hokkien / fujianhua anymore in Singapore, except for the grandparents? Pretty much English and Mandarin now?
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Nyet. The dialects are alive and well, at least among the parents' generation--people in their 40's and 50's are still conversant in Hokkien, Cantonese, Teochew. The other dialects aren't as well represented, but they're there.
Just last week I was speaking to an 18-year-old who hopes to study physiotherapy, and because of that, she wants to pick up some Chinese dialects to better converse with older clients. How cool is that?
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Friends of mine have been fined chewing gum in public. I wouldn't doubt the loitering one. Singaporeans are as OCD as it gets.
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Singapore = Verhoeven's Starship Troopers.
Gotta serve in military, unless you are super smart, then you gotta do public service, just like Doogie Howser xeno-biologist in Starship Troopers.
Same thing in both Koreas
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Friends of mine have been fined chewing gum in public. I wouldn't doubt the loitering one. Singaporeans are as OCD as it gets.
Loitering? I thought we were talking about toilet-ing.
Also, I thought the ban on chewing gum (lit. the act of chewing the gum) is perfectly legal since 2004? When were those friends fined?
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I recall an interview with Lee Kuan Yew on chewing gum many years ago. He was like "do you know how annoying it is when people put chewing gum in keyholes?" LOL.
It does make you wonder what kind of society needs laws like that. (Obviously they must have had a problem with hoodlums putting chewing gum in keyholes or sticking chewing gum under restaurant tables.) I do know that Singaporean-Hokkien swear-words are more plentiful and colorful than Taiwanese-Hokkien swear words.
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Love this thread now ! Anax hits the mark on India.... India is really a motley collection of erstwhile princely states or kingdoms united loosely by the English language and that too in the urban areas. Other unity points are arts and music.
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Loitering? I thought we were talking about toilet-ing.
Also, I thought the ban on chewing gum (lit. the act of chewing the gum) is perfectly legal since 2004? When were those friends fined?
It was in 2010. Fined $350 SGD each for chewing gum in the street as they were crossing the street. The police that gave them the infraction claimed somebody has said they threw a chewed gum on the ground (even though they were still chewing it in their mouth).
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Marv,
What then do you think about the Singapore Straits newspaper (grabs helmet...)
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Kapanak: sounds like the cop may've relied too much on someone else's testimony. I still think personal consumption of gum is ok here though.
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Anax: i never heard of anyone who actually got fined for not flushing here.
Yup, but it's the law and I didn't notice many unflushed toilets. I did see a plastic bag floating around once or twice. Tsk tsk.
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Marv,
What then do you think about the Singapore Straits newspaper (grabs helmet...)
It's hilarious. They plaster evil-doers or villains of the week on the front page. They can't resist publishing articles commenting on mainland Chinese shitting all over toilets and not flushing:
http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/south-east-asia/story/thai-temple-build-separate-toilets-non-chinese-visitors-after-compla (http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/south-east-asia/story/thai-temple-build-separate-toilets-non-chinese-visitors-after-compla)
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Yup, but it's the law and I didn't notice many unflushed toilets. I did see a plastic bag floating around once or twice. Tsk tsk.
Lucky you! Most metro and mall toilets are really gross in the morning, at rush hour. Nothing worse than needing the loo on the way to work to find no cubicle is usable.
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It's hilarious. They plaster evil-doers or villains of the week on the front page. They can't resist publishing articles commenting on mainland Chinese shitting all over toilets and not flushing:
http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/south-east-asia/story/thai-temple-build-separate-toilets-non-chinese-visitors-after-compla (http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/south-east-asia/story/thai-temple-build-separate-toilets-non-chinese-visitors-after-compla)
Sometimes it is necessary. Basic manners and hygiene are essential for a society to have some "living" standards.
On a slightly higher level of basic manners is learning the language of one's new country when a long-term stay is the objective. In the Netherlands the government and education system have been somewhat lax with language standards.
It might be thing of my time yet when I say "I am going to live in country X for at least six months and learn the language." If you cannot greet, say "thank you", "I am sorry" and say goodbye you might as well live as a hermit.
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On a slightly higher level of basic manners is learning the language of one's new country when a long-term stay is the objective.
Oh, Deep Funk, you have me "banged to rights" there. Caught in the act. Shamed and named (except you didn't know it was me!). I have lived here for ten years, and I still do not speak the local language.
That is not something that happened by intention at all, quite the opposite. It is a combination of the fact that it is so easy to get by here in English, and a mental block that I could not demolish aged ten, let alone fifty years later. It's easy to get by, but life would be so much better if I were not linguistically challenged.
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Oh, Deep Funk, you have me "banged to rights" there. Caught in the act. Shamed and named (except you didn't know it was me!). I have lived here for ten years, and I still do not speak the local language.
That is not something that happened by intention at all, quite the opposite. It is a combination of the fact that it is so easy to get by here in English, and a mental block that I could not demolish aged ten, let alone fifty years later. It's easy to get by, but life would be so much better if I were not linguistically challenged.
The language issue is a bit more complex. When the host country or host region (think of the Dutch "Randstad") tolerates multiple languages and even adopts other languages the "learning the language requirement" is less necessary. In Amsterdam you can work and live without ever learning the language yet without knowing or understanding Dutch you miss out on many things.
I am fairly sure the same can be observed in certain parts of India and China. Usually the multiple language regions are also the important trade regions with harbours and financial service providers. There is also the factor that English is the one of the major global trade languages. We can thank the old British Empire and current British Commonwealth for this factor.
For myself I will always try to adapt by at least learning the basic language. The result is rewarding. As a Dutch school kid I spoke French with the locals in Belgium and I was able to find out many things the guides could not tell me. My French was not great but the locals liked that I made the effort and good company usually follows.
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Dutch is awesome, especially for English speakers. Probably the closest language to English. Comes in handy because a lot of DVD / Bluray rips are dubbed in Dutch. I watched Disney's Treasure Planet in Dutch. Even after a little exposure, most English speakers kind of go "how the fuck did I understand that?"
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Similar experience with Italian and Spanish.
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Actually, I have also lived here, and Persians refer to Jewish folks as "Kalimi" if they are Persian Jewish. And yes, the rest are just referred to as "Jews". I never found either side to take issue with how they referred to each other.
Well, I don't see them strangle each other here. But I do tend to hear "Jew" from Persians and "Persian" from Jewish people when they point people out. It's a kind subtle thing - I mean I myself like to know if an ethnic Chinese person is from the mainland or has family members in the CPC. In fact, I've just been reminded of the Purim festival and the story of how OJNeg's ancient Persian ancestor, Haman, planned to destroy all Jews.