CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Marvey on July 01, 2014, 06:38:06 AM
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HiFiMan HE-560 measurements.
Updates links:
pre-production version (added 7/1/14)
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1654.msg43989.html#msg43989 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1654.msg43989.html#msg43989)
production version L+R comparison
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1654.msg43990.html#msg43990 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1654.msg43990.html#msg43990)
crappy high ISO photos
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1654.msg43992.html#msg43992 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1654.msg43992.html#msg43992)
subjective impressions
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1654.msg43998.html#msg43998 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1654.msg43998.html#msg43998)
The BEST combo. New production with pre-production pads
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1654.msg44162.html#msg44162
Original Post:
At least one side. Heading to bed. Ran on fumes today at work and need recovery. Still unpacking and house is a mess.
I love these BTW. Oh, and these were not a review sample sent to me by HFM so folks like Lachlan need not worry about corruption or us holding back anything. We pay for our own review units here. Or at least some random pyrate pays before sending something to me or ultrabike. Not counting the fact that we have an exchange program where we pass things along to get different points of view. Besides, measurements (while they have their limitations), aren't influenced by whether they are gifts, ahem, cough cough, review units.
This is a great headphone. Very much worth the price. More measurements and subjective impressions tomorrow. I don't know if this pair is a pre-production or production version. They came in a nice box.
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If these are veneered then they should be a production unit or should I say "post-pre-production".
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They appear to be veneered.
Couple of measurement notes:
- Great distortion characteristics
- Dip in last octave appears to be a measurement artifact
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So here's the big question: Are they worth the extra money over the HE-500?
Just looking at the FR, they don't seem as smooth to my eyes as the 500, especially with the jerg pads. There does seem to be less energy in the ~8-10k area though, is that correct? I think that's one of the big gripes I all the Hifiman planars I've tried so far.
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I think they are worth it for the following reasons:
- Comfort and fit. They feel light. Suspension headband is super comfy. Ear pads are to die for. I actually feel these are more comfy than the PM-1. HE-500 is horrible in terms of ergonomics compared to these.
- Bass clarity. HE-500 tends to have this one-note muddy bass thing going on unless you run it out of certain power amps.
- Less bright than HE-500. Depending upon amp, I've had to EQ 9kHz down a few db. With HE-560, not necessary.
- Not as smooth in FR compared to HE-500 / Jerg pads, but really, can't tell easily because the 2k dip is oftentimes desirable and at worst benign.
- Especially resolving for an ortho. Plankton galore. I'll give it a good run against Abyss. I've already compared before in less formal settings so I know Abyss wins. What would be interesting is by how much?
If people are paying well over $1.2k for AKG812, PM-1, LCD-2, this in comparison is a bargain. I myself am seriously contemplating these because the Abyss are quite heavy.
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CSD
The ringing at 4kHz looks like the beginnings of an ortho wall. Not sure if it is really audible. If anyone does not know what an ortho wall is, please ask, or so a search on this site.
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Interesting. Definitely an elevated region around 4k (or depressed region around it, depending on how you hear it I guess). From my listening impressions I thought the elevation would be higher up the spectrum (closer to 8k TBH).
Mech: FWIW, I didn't feel these were any more offensive in the treble than the HE500. HE500's treble issues are probably more evident to me than these actually. Depends on what you listen to I suppose. The lighter/better fit makes them worth it for most regardless. HE500's fit might start bothering you before the treble does ;)
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Yes, I thought I heard some stridency with the HE-560 that Clem brought to the LA meet. I looked for it with this pair, including trying recordings which I knew would set it off. However, I can confirm that I heard no stridency with this unit. Will do more subjective tests tomorrow.
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Thanks! Can't wait for further impressions and info. Sorta-kinda, but not terribly so, matches my HE-500 measurements with jerg-ish pads. Dip around 2KHz, bump around 3-4KHz (these aspects shifted down on the spectrum on my HE-500), though this HE-560 shows no peak around 9-10KHz and has better distortion characteristics.
I was considering the HE-560 but am now thinking I'd rather continue working on my HE-500 with my torn up alpha pads.
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I think they are worth it for the following reasons:
- Comfort and fit. They feel light. Suspension headband is super comfy. Ear pads are to die for. I actually feel these are more comfy than the PM-1. HE-500 is horrible in terms of ergonomics compared to these.
- Bass clarity. HE-500 tends to have this one-note muddy bass thing going on unless you run it out of certain power amps.
- Less bright than HE-500. Depending upon amp, I've had to EQ 9kHz down a few db. With HE-560, not necessary.
- Not as smooth in FR compared to HE-500 / Jerg pads, but really, can't tell easily because the 2k dip is oftentimes desirable and at worst benign.
- Especially resolving for an ortho. Plankton galore. I'll give it a good run against Abyss. I've already compared before in less formal settings so I know Abyss wins. What would be interesting is by how much?
If people are paying well over $1.2k for AKG812, PM-1, LCD-2, this in comparison is a bargain. I myself am seriously contemplating these because the Abyss are quite heavy.
NO! Make a sick hybrid instead. HE-560 headband with HE-6 drivers and full modded! headbang
Anyway, looking forward to your subjective review.
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next stop he400i
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Thanks a lot Marv! Very interesting.
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Thanks Marv. Still waiting for my friend to get his pair so that I can finally get to hear them. HiFiMan couldn't make it to the last head-fi meet, so I haven't had any opportunities to try them. Very interested in the he-400i too.
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My problem with the HE-560s, and I didn't even listen to them because of this. Was that when I tried to put them on my head at the Fujiya Avic festival, the cups don't bend back in enough, cause the headband like isn't big enough, the the bottom of the cup doesn't rest flat against my head. The Kingsounds stats did the same thing, and so did the Alphadogs when I tried them this last weekend. Until recently I had never run into this problem, its like all the headphone manufacturers simultaneously decided to discriminate those of us with big heads :)p18
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Very interested in your subjective impressions and also your thoughts on amp pairing :)p1
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Don't forget there's another box under the top one. :)p1
I haven't had much time to listen to the production 560, but it did seem to be very close to the preorder version in terms of sound, minus being a little less warm/thick sounding. I noted that the preorder 560 what sounded to be like a little peak in the lower treble, but wasn't sure if it was a peak or distortion/resonance. Looks like what I was hearing was that hump centered 4khz.
I prefer dips at 2khz, which might be why I like the 560 a bit. Too much 2khz makes headphones sound unnaturally plasticy to me.
Those distortion numbers are really great, wow!
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Thanks for the measurements. The CSD looks weird, you should try swapping the pads (TMR's other pair should have a different type of earpads) and see how that modulates the sound.
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I'm interested to see if that pure pleather of the newer pads vs the perforated velour of the older pads on their undersides makes any difference when it comes to damping and resonance. No doubt it'll change the FR a little bit too, at least that's what I heard.
Is the 3rd and 4th order harmonics being below -90db part of why these resolve so well? I haven't really heard of a more detailed headphone, really. I do know the lower treble bump does bring out a little of emphasis on stringed instruments and their characteristics, but I also know that it doesn't need that 10khz bump to give false definition and detail like a bunch of other headphones.
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I'm interested to see if that pure pleather of the newer pads vs the perforated velour of the older pads on their undersides makes any difference when it comes to damping and resonance. No doubt it'll change the FR a little bit too, at least that's what I heard.
Is the 3rd and 4th order harmonics being below -90db part of why these resolve so well? I haven't really heard of a more detailed headphone, really. I do know the lower treble bump does bring out a little of emphasis on stringed instruments and their characteristics, but I also know that it doesn't need that 10khz bump to give false definition and detail like a bunch of other headphones.
Holy cow yeah the mids and especially the treble distortion figures are really low compared to other headphones, now that you mention it.
Edit: I find it strange that the low/sub-bass distortion figures are fairly meh though, my subjective impressions are quite the opposite, these have pretty spectacular bass quality to my ears. Marv, is the earpad-measurement coupling/seal optimal when you measured?
Kinda funny how both HE560 and PM1 have a little bass control issue around mid-upper bass, with the distortions.
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Those bass distortion figures are actually quite good. Maybe not the absolute best ever, but I don't think anyone is going to complain with that.
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Those bass distortion figures are actually quite good. Maybe not the absolute best ever, but I don't think anyone is going to complain with that.
True, I guess it just looked off because the rest of the THD is outstanding; not so when lookin specifically at point distortion levels in the sub-200Hz region.
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Those bass distortion figures are actually quite good. Maybe not the absolute best ever, but I don't think anyone is going to complain with that.
bass distortion is actually quite good. can't expect Abyss bass quality and didn't hear that, but it's very good bass quality and huge improvement over the HE-500.
i'll have more time tonight now that I have the rig out of storage and finally set up.
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Yeah overall the distortion is remarkably low. Compare the 560's bass thd to LCD-X, for instance.
I think the distortion might look worse than it actually is because the y axis is shifted down by 10db.
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Pretty much agree with most of the impressions including v. the 500. However, not sure how different this set is compared to the other two pairs of 560's I've heard but I think they were still down on plankton and resolution versus the HE5 and HE6 but definitely better than the HE500 by a good margin. That was one reason I didn't get too overly enthusiastic about them despite getting most of the tonal balance right.
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I'm interested to see if that pure pleather of the newer pads vs the perforated velour of the older pads on their undersides makes any difference when it comes to damping and resonance. No doubt it'll change the FR a little bit too, at least that's what I heard.
Is the 3rd and 4th order harmonics being below -90db part of why these resolve so well? I haven't really heard of a more detailed headphone, really. I do know the lower treble bump does bring out a little of emphasis on stringed instruments and their characteristics, but I also know that it doesn't need that 10khz bump to give false definition and detail like a bunch of other headphones.
Holy cow yeah the mids and especially the treble distortion figures are really low compared to other headphones, now that you mention it.
Edit: I find it strange that the low/sub-bass distortion figures are fairly meh though, my subjective impressions are quite the opposite, these have pretty spectacular bass quality to my ears. Marv, is the earpad-measurement coupling/seal optimal when you measured?
Kinda funny how both HE560 and PM1 have a little bass control issue around mid-upper bass, with the distortions.
Same thing with the Abyss, a two sided-magnet seems to have more control over keeping down harmonic distortion. The clarity, detail and snap of the bass may have more to do with the diaphragm being damped and more responsive, though without the magnetic restorative force to keep harmonics down.
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HE-560 pre-production. Velour pads without the Jerg technology.
BTW, the solid wood is much nicer than the veenered shit. After taking a closer look, the veener job is so bad. Still $899 for great sound.
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HE-560 production
L+R
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HE560 prod
L CSD and L distortions
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jerd pad tech seen here
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The more I stare, the more I think these measure similarly to the Audezes.... p:/
Have you measured an LCD2 or LCD3 with the v2 method yet?
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Did TMR not send you the preorder hybrid earpads? I think the production earpads sound worse.
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The first to publish eagerly awaited measurements of these? Congrats!
Doubtless some well designed and finished quality phones. Among other things, the minimal discrepancies between l & r is a very good sign, I think.
(I have a feeling that these phones will react very well to tonal corrections/eq - say, if one should want a darker sound or smth - because of the low distortion and generallly smooth response + the potentially needed headroom in the bass that one expects from orthos).
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The new pads appear to be available for sale on the HFM store. Are the old style pads compatible with the HE-560? I'm assuming they are. If so, I'd be very interested to see how they measure on the HE-560 (including jergpad).
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Did TMR not send you the preorder hybrid earpads? I think the production earpads sound worse.
I have them and will do a swap later and measure.
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SUBJECTIVE IMPRESSIONS + COMPARISON TO ABYSS
I'll make it short and call the HE-560 Abyss Lite.
- Tonal response and presentation very similar to Abyss with some minor differences:
- More 4k emphasis on HE-560, whereas Abyss has more 9k emphasis. The HE-560 is also just a hair warmer. But again both headphones are very similar in terms of tone and presentation.
- HE-560 tends to have a more plasticky timbre, Abyss has more steely timbre. Please don't go around saying I said the HE-560 sounds plasicky. It doesn't. Just trying to find words to describe the differences.
- Abyss has better microdetail extraction, but HE-560 plankton retrieval is very good and something I find quite satisfying. This cannot be said with the HE-500 or even the AKG K812 (see impressions elsewhere on this site to read how the K812 fails in this regard even in the face of the "lowly" HD600.)
- Abyss has more bass power and tighter bass. Bass on HE-560 can sometimes be soft compared against the Abyss. HE-560 is still no slouch in the area. And as mentioned earlier, a huge improvement over the HE-500's mushy bass.
- Abyss has better layering and separation.
- Percussion sounds snappier and less soft on Abyss.
VERDICT: FOUR STARS
I was asked earlier if I felt the HE-560 was worth it. I said yes, assuming that the HE-560 cost $1199. (I have no idea why I thought this.) Anyways, at $899, I find the HE-560 quite a good deal.
Why the comparison to the Abyss? It's not fair no? Because you get 80-90% of it at well less than 20% of the cost. The HE-560 represents a significant improvement over the earlier iterations. Better tonal balance than HE-5/6 and better technicalities and refinement over HE-500. It's all growed up now.
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Thank you for the measurement and impressions. HE-560 is definitely on my radar now.
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Marvey, what amps did you think fared well with the HE-560?
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Great stuff!
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Marvey, what amps did you think fared well with the HE-560?
I would generally steer away from tubes or lower powered amps - tends to sound soft. High Z tube amps like EC ZD or WA-2 are not recommended. EC 4-45 was fantastic, but that is an exception to the guidance. The headphone definitely does scale. Even the Objective 2 drove the HE-560 well. So no need for a mega powered speaker amp. It's not that hard to drive.
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I would generally steer away from tubes or lower powered amps - tends to sound soft. High Z tube amps like EC ZD or WA-2 are not recommended. EC 4-45 was fantastic, but that is an exception to the guidance. The headphone definitely does scale. Even the Objective 2 drove the HE-560 well. So no need for a mega powered speaker amp. It's not that hard to drive.
Dang. I've only got tubes and hybrids round here.
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How did you like preorder vs production 560 Marv?
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I would generally steer away from tubes or lower powered amps - tends to sound soft. High Z tube amps like EC ZD or WA-2 are not recommended. EC 4-45 was fantastic, but that is an exception to the guidance. The headphone definitely does scale. Even the Objective 2 drove the HE-560 well. So no need for a mega powered speaker amp. It's not that hard to drive.
Dang. I've only got tubes and hybrids round here.
Hybrids should be fine provided you are not running something which is NOT cap coupled at the end with a small value. In fact, something like the Lyr or perhaps Vali should do fine. I haven't tried on Vali yet - need to find it. I can imagine something like CA LG should be awesome.
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In case anyone's curious about the "ortho wall" (I know I was), this seems like a good point to start reading:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1193.msg31986.html#msg31986
Amusingly, I found that post by googling "ortho wall" after searching within this forum and finding too many hits without a good discussion. Sadly, I had to go all the way to page three to find it :)p2
Thanks for all the measurements and impressions. Looking forward to more. As to solid wood pre-orders vs. production veneers, I agree that the solid teak looks really nice, but as was noted at Head-Fi, one owner already experienced cracking. That didn't take long.
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Thanks Marv. I'll keep those amping recommendations in mind if I can ever swing the cash for a HE-560.
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Can we get measurements of the production 560 with the pad swap sometime, Marv?
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Production HE-560 with pre-production pads! Sorry it took me so long. Many requests for this one.
THIS IS IT! A warmer sig. more along the lines of the HE-500, but not quite as much, and without the slight mid-treble emphasis of the HE-500. THIS IS IT!
BTW, ignore 12k dip. It's a measurement artifact.
Gotta run to fireworks show. More later.
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Damn, that looks pretty good. Anyone know where to score some pre-production pads?
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Thanks Marv! It confirms what I heard. When I first got the production 560 it sounded a little less warm and more aggressive in the lower treble than the preorder one. Jerg suggested to try swapping the pads out, and I noticed immediately that it was warmer and sounded more like the preorder one, and I preferred that sound.
I suspect it's the use of pleather along the bottom and inner part of the production pads as opposed to the mesh velour of the preorder. The smaller opening could have something to do with it as well, but the difference in openings is very small.
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Interesting.
Are there pictures of the old pads vs the new pads?
(I bought an exra pair of their new pads just to test with other headphones! lol ... I know... they just look extremely comfy)
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Here you go:
Courtesy of Clemmaster over at head-fi:
(http://i.imgur.com/J0vqOFJ.jpg)
My picture:
(http://i.imgur.com/O0EYPDB.jpg)
Older pads have a slightly smaller opening, the newer pads have the same size opening as previous hifiman pads for their previous headphones. The older pads are not made for matching channels, so they are asymmetric. Also, the older pads have a mesh velour underneath the lip of the ear opening, while the newer pads have perforated pleather on the inside and non-perforated pleather on the underside.
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Thanks TM!
I actually meant the actual physical pads though. lol ;D
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Ooh! Sorry about that, edited my previous post for you.
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Wonder if HFM will also have the "old"/pre-production pads for sale as well. Anyway, I'll wait for my pair to arrive and see how I like them! :)
Thanks for the quick replies!!!
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Also, the older pads have a mesh velour underneath the lip of the ear opening, while the newer pads have perforated pleather on the inside and non-perforated pleather on the underside.
I wonder if perforating the underside would warm them up a bit.
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Also, the older pads have a mesh velour underneath the lip of the ear opening, while the newer pads have perforated pleather on the inside and non-perforated pleather on the underside.
I wonder if perforating the underside would warm them up a bit.
No doubt it will, AFAIK the only sonic difference between the two pads is the underlining material.
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Also, the older pads have a mesh velour underneath the lip of the ear opening, while the newer pads have perforated pleather on the inside and non-perforated pleather on the underside.
I wonder if perforating the underside would warm them up a bit.
No doubt it will, AFAIK the only sonic difference between the two pads is the underlining material.
So the differences in material appear to be the "inner ring" (for want of a better term), which went from the mesh to perforated pleather (a la the PM-1 style), and the "underside" (up against the mounting ring), which was the same mesh(?), but is now un-perforated pleather? I don't recall seeing a pic of the underside. I would guess the "inner ring" material would matter more/have a greater effect on the sound.
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Also, the older pads have a mesh velour underneath the lip of the ear opening, while the newer pads have perforated pleather on the inside and non-perforated pleather on the underside.
I wonder if perforating the underside would warm them up a bit.
No doubt it will, AFAIK the only sonic difference between the two pads is the underlining material.
So the differences in material appear to be the "inner ring" (for want of a better term), which went from the mesh to perforated pleather (a la the PM-1 style), and the "underside" (up against the mounting ring), which was the same mesh(?), but is now un-perforated pleather? I don't recall seeing a pic of the underside. I would guess the "inner ring" material would matter more/have a greater effect on the sound.
No, the older style is a single sheet of mesh fabric, the new one is two rings of pleather.
So the cross-section of the older pads is a quarter-circle, and the new one a square.
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No, the older style is a single sheet of mesh fabric, the new one is two rings of pleather.
So the cross-section of the older pads is a quarter-circle, and the new one a square.
Ah, thanks for clarifying. Maybe that explains why the new ones seem to have a proper "wall" on the inner ring, whereas the pre-prod just sort of slope innerwards. Very interesting. And thanks, as always, for your impressions and feedback. Helps us future buyers immensely. Also makes me think I'll order the new pads and try them on my HE-500s. I'm dying to compare them to the Q701 pads.
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Pre-production pads: http://head-direct.com/Products/?act=detail&id=203#
Production pads: http://head-direct.com/Products/?act=detail&id=198
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I just ordered both and will be comparing them side by side with the Vegan pads on HE-6.
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I also ordered both and will see how they work on the HE-500.
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Looking forward to pad comparisons. Interested in getting a pair of either the pre-porduction or the latest ones for my HE-400. Based on trying out the 560 a couple of months ago, I'd get the pads even for comfort alone.
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The pre-production ones are available for order?
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yup, hans posted it earleir
Pre-production pads: http://head-direct.com/Products/?act=detail&id=203#
Production pads: http://head-direct.com/Products/?act=detail&id=198
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Oh woops, I missed that. Thought it was a link to pics!
Thanks Phoenix.
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How did you find the HE-560 pads compare to the "original" HE-[whatever] pads? It's just hard for me to tell with pictures if they're thicker, angled, softer, etc.
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I use velours on my HE-400 and the pads are a bit hard to compare because they weren't on the same headphones (velours - HE400, "FocusPad" - 560). I do remember the new pads being softer than the velours. They weren't angled (maybe not noticeably?) and I think they are around the same thickness. Apologies for not being too detailed since the I was too focused on how much lighter the 560 was on the head compared to the 400.
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How did you find the HE-560 pads compare to the "original" HE-[whatever] pads? It's just hard for me to tell with pictures if they're thicker, angled, softer, etc.
The new hybrid pads are mildly angled (10~15 degrees maybe), with the thinnest parts just a hair thinner than the pleathers without foam insert, and thickest parts a hair thicker than velours + foam insert.
The internal foam used with the hybrid pads are substantially softer than any used in previous Hifiman pads, I think it might actually be the same foam used in J$ pads (it's a blue-coloured medium-density non-memory foam).
AFAIK the velour fabric used on the face-touching surface of the hybrid parts is superior to velours used on velour pads, I've been using these since March and still it has not become itchy at all.
I find Focus-A pads more comfortable than Focus pads, because the former is lipped and curves in on the underside for the ears to tuck into, while the latter forms a cylindrical inner wall so the ears have to tuck against that.
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The new hybrid pads are mildly angled (10~15 degrees maybe), with the thinnest parts just a hair thinner than the pleathers without foam insert, and thickest parts a hair thicker than velours + foam insert.
The internal foam used with the hybrid pads are substantially softer than any used in previous Hifiman pads, I think it might actually be the same foam used in J$ pads (it's a blue-coloured medium-density non-memory foam).
AFAIK the velour fabric used on the face-touching surface of the hybrid parts is superior to velours used on velour pads, I've been using these since March and still it has not become itchy at all.
I find Focus-A pads more comfortable than Focus pads, because the former is lipped and curves in on the underside for the ears to tuck into, while the latter forms a cylindrical inner wall so the ears have to tuck against that.
jorg! ;)
But what about the differences in the sound?!
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The new hybrid pads are mildly angled (10~15 degrees maybe), with the thinnest parts just a hair thinner than the pleathers without foam insert, and thickest parts a hair thicker than velours + foam insert.
The internal foam used with the hybrid pads are substantially softer than any used in previous Hifiman pads, I think it might actually be the same foam used in J$ pads (it's a blue-coloured medium-density non-memory foam).
AFAIK the velour fabric used on the face-touching surface of the hybrid parts is superior to velours used on velour pads, I've been using these since March and still it has not become itchy at all.
I find Focus-A pads more comfortable than Focus pads, because the former is lipped and curves in on the underside for the ears to tuck into, while the latter forms a cylindrical inner wall so the ears have to tuck against that.
jorg! ;)
But what about the differences in the sound?!
Differences between the new hybrid pads and what?
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Your opinions on the sound of production pads vs preorder pads I'm assuming.
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Your opinions on the sound of production pads vs preorder pads I'm assuming.
DING DING DING!
My pads got delayed!
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Your opinions on the sound of production pads vs preorder pads I'm assuming.
DING DING DING!
My pads got delayed!
The focus-A's fit my ears much better, have a more even upper end FR (just as the measurements show), not as good in terms of sewing quality.
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Your opinions on the sound of production pads vs preorder pads I'm assuming.
DING DING DING!
My pads got delayed!
LOL, just got the same email. Says they're shipping a bunch to their US warehouse and hope to send out US orders at the beginning of next week. Seems they have a hit on their hands. Now a question for jerg...
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The focus-A's fit my ears much better, have a more even upper end FR (just as the measurements show), not as good in terms of sewing quality.
Have you tried both Focus pads on your modded HE-500s? If so, any impressions would be welcome. I reckon it's not too late to switch my order to the Focus-A pads, but I'm not sure. Most comparisons are in regards to the HE-560s, which is to be expected.
TIA.
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The focus-A's fit my ears much better, have a more even upper end FR (just as the measurements show), not as good in terms of sewing quality.
Have you tried both Focus pads on your modded HE-500s? If so, any impressions would be welcome. I reckon it's not too late to switch my order to the Focus-A pads, but I'm not sure. Most comparisons are in regards to the HE-560s, which is to be expected.
TIA.
A bit too much irl to handle atm to do these things, sorry.
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The focus-A's fit my ears much better, have a more even upper end FR (just as the measurements show), not as good in terms of sewing quality.
Have you tried both Focus pads on your modded HE-500s? If so, any impressions would be welcome. I reckon it's not too late to switch my order to the Focus-A pads, but I'm not sure. Most comparisons are in regards to the HE-560s, which is to be expected.
TIA.
A bit too much irl to handle atm to do these things, sorry.
No problem. Thanks for the reply. I'm hoping the Focus pads can compete with and maybe offer something a little different from the Q701 pads. We shall see.
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Wondering if a Pico would be enough power for these headphones.
(Longshot, I know)
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Yes.
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Yes.
Iiiiinteresting...
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Can someone tell me if the Vali has enough power to drive the 560 correctly ?
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Iiiiinteresting...
It can play them loud but not ridiculously loud. Same for Vali.
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Tried these in a store, via Conductor fed by some Marantz. Production version with production pads. Did not like the treble bite. Feels odd saying this, because I had no issues with HE-400 or DT880... How much of a difference does the Focus Pad-A make?
Side note: had to endure a Audeze fanboy of a salesperson. Kept telling me the LCD-2 is much better, because it is made in US, by ENGINEERS no less, and that Hifiman clearly copied them.
QOTD: heavier headphones are better. That was my cue to exit.
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Also Audeze particles.
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Also Audeze particles.
I just googled that. Whattttt on earth
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Also, Hifiman is willing to ship the HE-560 with FocusPad-A instead of FocusPad, upon request (and no extra charge, I'm assuming).
I checked with them and they said it's ok, just be sure to let customer service know when you order.
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I was wondering if the Mjolnir would be too bright for the 560 ?
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My pads come in on Thursday.
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Tried these in a store, via Conductor fed by some Marantz. Production version with production pads. Did not like the treble bite. Feels odd saying this, because I had no issues with HE-400 or DT880... How much of a difference does the Focus Pad-A make?
Side note: had to endure a Audeze fanboy of a salesperson. Kept telling me the LCD-2 is much better, because it is made in US, by ENGINEERS no less, and that Hifiman clearly copied them.
QOTD: heavier headphones are better. That was my cue to exit.
A little bit of that bite is always going to be there. I would say that with the new pads, recording / upstream equipment would certainly be a concern.
It was much more mellow with the older pads where I didn't think it was an issue. The production headphones with pre-production pads were the most mellow combination.
HE-400 or DT880 is more sizzle than bite.
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HE-560 PP pads CSD as requested.
Sorry for being late. Sometimes I forget. Please KEEP bugging me. Don't feel bad about doing that.
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A little bit of that bite is always going to be there. I would say that with the new pads, recording / upstream equipment would certainly be a concern.
It was much more mellow with the older pads where I didn't think it was an issue. The production headphones with pre-production pads were the most mellow combination.
HE-400 or DT880 is more sizzle than bite.
Thanks marv, that's very reassuring to hear. I'll keep these on my radar (and LFF's Enigma ^_^)
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Hm, I bet the same material I used to tame the edge of my HD600 would work well for the HFM headphones (thin sheet of open-cell foam). I do plan on experimenting with this in the future on my HE-500. I have a huge sheet of the material because it's super cheap.
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Iiiiinteresting...
It can play them loud but not ridiculously loud. Same for Vali.
Thanks!
I have finally decided to replace my Mjolnir with the Lyr 2.
Can't wait to try the 560s with the Lyr 2!
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Just tried a production HE-560 with WA7. Much nicer than the mess i tried at that other shop. But now I'm confused as to what the "real" sound of this headphone is.
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Differences between FocusPad A (pre production) and FocusPad (post production) on HE-6:
Comfort: I liked the texture of the original HE-6 velours (clear plastic ring) more, but these have a better fit on the head. I think the rings are a bit small but very tolerable. My gripe (big gripe) about these is the texture of the "velour", they make my ears fuckin' ITCHY! The inner lip for the pre pads touch the back of my ear and it's UNBEARABLE!
Sound: Pre pads are warmer and slightly tamer on the lower treble. These seems like the choice for most people who feel the HE-6 are a tad "bright". Seems to make it seem a bit mushier. The post production pads are crisper. Reminds me of the original velours a lot, but with a larger soundstage and better imaging. Both pre and post have the same soundstage and imaging.
Of the two, I prefer the post production pads as I don't like the warmer, mushier sound. I'm still sticking to my Vegans as they sound better - bigger sound stage, better impact, way more comfortable at the slight expense (if there is any) of maybe imaging and veil.
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heh, you are coming from the HE-6, so I can definitely see you preferring the post prod. pads. Any issues with the slight measured bump at 3-4k?
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Slight 3-4k bump is noticeable but I don't find it fatiguing. Gives a nice sense of cleanliness to the sound but makes it a bit lean.
Signature wise, it sounds almost the same as a stock velour HE-6 so that bump might be too much for most.
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I wish you guys were closer. I'd like to do a mini meet to compare the Klone vs the Mjolnir with the HE-560. I wish I had been able to get some serious time with them at the meet.
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First post :)p6 , hopefully in the right thread:
HELP, why are my HE-560 noticeably less loud than my HE-500? Have loved the HE-500 for a loooong time, and was excited to try out HE-560, based on the measurements seen so far and the subjective reviews.
Got the HE-560 on Friday, tried them out of the same amp, at the same volume, playing the same tracks as with the HE-500, and total volume, not just a piece of the spectrum, is palpably less than the HE-500. Based on all I have read so far, I thought that the perceived loudness would be very similar between these two, have I missed something?
I don't believe in cables or burn-in, but I did a round robin with all hifiman cables I have (stock 500, stock 560, homemade mogami 2893), and I let the 560's run all weekend with pink noise, JUST to confirm there are no other confounds.
With the lower impedance, and (barely) higher sensitivity, shouldn't the 560 be louder, inputs being the same? I am trying to compare / contrast the two, but I FEEL LIKE I AM TAKING CRAZY PILLS, and cannot get past this.
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First post :)p6 , hopefully in the right thread:
HELP, why are my HE-560 noticeably less loud than my HE-500? Have loved the HE-500 for a loooong time, and was excited to try out HE-560, based on the measurements seen so far and the subjective reviews.
Got the HE-560 on Friday, tried them out of the same amp, at the same volume, playing the same tracks as with the HE-500, and total volume, not just a piece of the spectrum, is palpably less than the HE-500. Based on all I have read so far, I thought that the perceived loudness would be very similar between these two, have I missed something?
I don't believe in cables or burn-in, but I did a round robin with all hifiman cables I have (stock 500, stock 560, homemade mogami 2893), and I let the 560's run all weekend with pink noise, JUST to confirm there are no other confounds.
With the lower impedance, and (barely) higher sensitivity, shouldn't the 560 be louder, inputs being the same? I am trying to compare / contrast the two, but I FEEL LIKE I AM TAKING CRAZY PILLS, and cannot get past this.
You're not the only one. It seems the HE-560s are less efficient than the HE-500s, perhaps due to the single-ended driver design (one magnet array per, vs. two magnets per on the HE-500s; thus, the weight difference). I'm curious to hear the HE-560s, once HFM processes my return of my defective HE-500s. Since those were the cans I used the most, I'm pretty familiar where the volume knob was for certain songs.
As long as your amp can drive them properly, I wouldn't sweat the volume knob position.
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With the lower impedance, and (barely) higher sensitivity, shouldn't the 560 be louder, inputs being the same? I am trying to compare / contrast the two, but I FEEL LIKE I AM TAKING CRAZY PILLS, and cannot get past this.
- Impedance has nothing to do with sensitivity. Oftentimes depending up the amp, lower impedance will mean softer sound.
- Headphone manufacturers tend to be very liberal with sensitivity specs.
- You are not crazy. I wouldn't worry about stuff like this.
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Quick replies appreciated. I understand the relationship (lack thereof) between impedance and sensitivity, I was just perplexed based on all I had read / looked at to find such a difference between the volume of these two. I am over it now, and just listening again.
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So I bought my pair of these today. Since I had to sell all my stuff to afford a new apartment I only have the Objective combo to drive them. What would you recommend me to upgrade first?
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Quick replies appreciated. I understand the relationship (lack thereof) between impedance and sensitivity, I was just perplexed based on all I had read / looked at to find such a difference between the volume of these two. I am over it now, and just listening again.
Yep - completely normal. My HE-560 is clearly lower in volume for same pot position than my HE-500 for whatever that's worth. Curious to hear your opinions on HE-560 vs HE-500.
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So I bought my pair of these today. Since I had to sell all my stuff to afford a new apartment I only have the Objective combo to drive them. What would you recommend me to upgrade first?
The pads.
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So I bought my pair of these today. Since I had to sell all my stuff to afford a new apartment I only have the Objective combo to drive them. What would you recommend me to upgrade first?
I'm getting them shipped with pre-prod pads already, I meant amp/dac wise
The pads.
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Yep - completely normal. My HE-560 is clearly lower in volume for same pot position than my HE-500 for whatever that's worth. Curious to hear your opinions on HE-560 vs HE-500.
Its been an interesting listen so far. I have been listening to pretty much the same CD for more than a week, since I JUST finished auditioning an LCD-3. I was primarily comparing to my HE-500, so I am still listening to the same CD, and will be all week but with HE-560 in audition seat. This morning, based on the volume fiasco I was thinking "wtf detail retrieval?! I can't hear SHIT."
Here is what I can say: the LCD-3 are getting sold because I remain un-enamored of the Audeze Houze of Darknezz. Also having an out of water aircraft carrier on my head is becoming less and less pleasant the less and less young I become. I actually cancelled an order for LCD-X after I tried listening to LCD-3 all day ... once.
Why all this about the LCD-3? because, so far, I hear that the HE-560 is noticeably more laid back than the HE-500. Not as much as the LCD-3 was, but somewhere between. First I thought that the punch to the low bass and the crispness in the highs, both things I like, were missing. But on closer listen, they are not missing, just ... slightly subdued. I am still in the process of determining whether this new sound is something I like, but I am beginning to suspect it will be.
The comfort is unreal, and I am quite sure that if I don't keep the 560's I will begin hunting / harassing Fang to sell the headband / gymbal unit for the 560 so I can apply it to my 500's. Heck, I might do that anyway. More tomorrow.
[edited due to careless proof reading, and omission of a z]
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I'm getting them shipped with pre-prod pads already, I meant amp/dac wise
My advice would be for you to listen to it with the gear you have for a while, then think about upgrades.
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Anyone try the Vegan pads on the 560 yet?
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Day late and many dollars short.
Did a lot of listening over the last few days and here is my bottom line: the HE-560 lets / makes me listen to my music longer / more than my HE-500 did. The comfort comparison is a joke, and that affects my perception, but I don't care, the goal is moar music. I like low volume for most listening, and at lower volumes the 560 sounds better and more full.
The highs: After I got over "missing" the 500's 8-10K peak, it turns out I can listen at lower volumes and hear everything I like hearing (not just the high shit).
The lows: I like the bass rumble very much better. At first the 560 seemed much looser than the 500, but after a MUCH more varied library of songs, the bass feels more real across more genres. (don't know how else to say it).
The mids: I can still hear all the shit I enjoyed hearing before. This was not a big difference in my opinion between the two; the data tell me there is a bit more dip 1-2k, and emphasis at 3-5k, on the 560, but it certainly didn't sound worse than the 500, so whatever.
I have some Focus-A on order so I will have to see if I like how those work.
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It seems the only real criticism for HE560 is it doesn't sound as "full" as the dual-ended Hifiman planars, which I do also feel is somewhat the case. Hard to say what "fullness" really is though, it doesn't seem to be a matter of the FR, maybe it's a specific decay pattern in the lower mids.
Conversely, at least with my HE500 one might say it doesn't have the agility in decay as HE560. So that perception of "fullness" goes both ways.
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Fair. I guess when I am saying "full" I am meaning "more complete representation of all sounds in a passage of music in a way that is audibly pleasant to me" but that seemed a bit too qualified under the scenario. I take your point well though, looking at the decay characteristics there is more stuff hanging around longer with the 500, adding to feeling of "full".
When you say dual-ended do you mean wired in balanced, or magnet arrays on both sides?
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When I compared the HE-560 to the HE-6 or my HE-500, the HE-560 sounds more 'polite' and less punchy/dynamic than those. Perhaps that's my own twist on what others refer to as 'full'. The difference in sound doesn't seem to be just represented by frequency response, so I'm not sure what causes this feeling either..
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I think polite might be the perfect way to describe it vs HE-6.
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Hmm, the HE-500 with my modded/torn up alpha pads sounds quite polite compared to the HFM pads (any of them). I wonder how the HE-560 compares with that...and will continue to wonder until I get my hands on one.
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Hmm, the HE-500 with my modded/torn up alpha pads sounds quite polite compared to the HFM pads (any of them). I wonder how the HE-560 compares with that...and will continue to wonder until I get my hands on one.
Didn't the alpha pads measure the politest by Dan Clarke himself, when he tried it vs stock pads on HE500?
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His measurements showed a rise in the mids and a lowering in the treble, more or less. Measurements I took of my torn up pair showed a filled in response around 1-3KHz, but also a bit of a 2-3KHz rise after. Bass was more linear and had less of a slight rise around 70Hz. Pretty similar otherwise. But, subjectively, the alpha pads just sound more polite, less thick and punchy, more ethereal, etc. I'm sure the HE-560 has a different presentation yet, but it would be an interesting comparison.
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Is it worth upgrading from HE-500s to these? I'm assuming there isn't a $900 difference between the two pairs :(
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Is it worth upgrading from HE-500s to these? I'm assuming there isn't a $900 difference between the two pairs :(
You mean $300 ($600 vs $900). I do think so, the night-and-day improvement in comfort (weight as well as fit), and improvement in technicalities deem the price difference IMO. The only thing that might hold you back is the overall balance and presentation is very different between the two, HE560 is closer to HE6 in balance and speed than to HE500, neutral/dynamic vs warm/powerful.
There may be something that could rein HE560 much closer to HE500 in musicality, without loosing its finesse, but I have to do more testing to know for sure.
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(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r798/wroevl/eq_zps1c2e18fc.gif)
As you can see, Behringer has already developed an EQ unit for the HE560, the MiniFBQ! Or did Hifiman develope the 560 to work with the Behringer?! I almost considered posting this in the humor thread (not expeting to be taken seriously anway) , but in fact there is no reason why the thing should not give the 560 a considerable performance boost.(knowledgeable people will look away from the low price and the cheap design, I suppose..).
BTW, one should rather consider the thing an extended tone control unit, it is not for flattening every small bump and dip, of course.
( Personally I often use analogue sources, so digital eq does not suite me well, others may be in the same boat. This thing works very well with my ESP950, cleaning up the sound amazingly well, getting rid of the excessive response at 1k and somewhat downwards from that).
And the 560? My guess: A sligth reduction in the 4k area will improve resolution/transparency. A slight general increase in the bass region will give som more real world grunt (but don't expect miracles) and improve the overall balance. LIfting the 2k region a bit will primarely suite those who play accoustical music at moderate levels. (Funny if somebody could try it out, I may do it later).
Cheers, Olaf
(it is 100 USD or smth).
P.S:
Electronics are like food, 50% is about looks.( Don't look at this while listening!!)
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There may be something that could rein HE560 much closer to HE500 in musicality, without loosing its finesse, but I have to do more testing to know for sure.
tl;dr: different pads might get you close.
The Full Monty:
I ended up mutilating the AKG Q701 pads I'd been using on my HE-500s. Seems the new (HE-560) mounting rings are a bit smaller than the old rings. The foam donuts of the Q701 pads survived just fine though, and trimming the outside edge, and trimming the old mounting rings, allowed this combo to pass under the HE-560 yokes, thus allowing for a proper fit. Without trimming, the rings and foam just bumped up against the yokes.
Very interesting change to the sound. The foam is quite dense, which may have something to do with it, and there is more room "inside" compared to the FocusPads (and that's with a Creatology stiff foam riser ring inserted into the FocusPads). My ears like the roomier aspect. The sound is warmer in the low end, with more quantity, but the highs are still pretty shimmering. Vocals are also presented well (male; don't have much music with female vocals). This new pad setup employs jerg's "get rid of the mesh dust filter on the FocusPads" mod, sort of by necessity, as I don't have mesh to add to the Q701 foam donuts. In my few back and forths trying to compare the two, guitars could seem a little distant with the Q701 pads, but that was with a less-than-perfectly recorded album, and even the FocusPads couldn't bring it up out of the murky depths.
I should note my HE-560s only have about 40 hours on them thus far.
One thing that does benefit is the soundstage, as with the Q701 pads on the HE-500s. Before my 500s went bad, I was using the FocusPads on them with pretty good success, but the un-mutilated Q701 pads still produced a superior soundstage. I'm using the same large hexagonal openings grills I was using on the HE-500s. The imaging may be less precise with the mutilated Q701 pads, as the angling is not as pronounced without the velour covers. I'm pretty sure the velour was pulled tight to compress the foam to create the angle. I've yet to figure out how to replicate that by hand. I've got some nice microsuede with which to try.
I'd love to see a measurement, as this sound makes me think of a U- or V-shaped curve (HE-400s? Never heard them, but that description comes to mind). I can't say it's definitely worth buying the Q701 pads, but they're not that expensive in the U.S. direct from AKG (mine were $35 shipped). Anyway, something to consider if you're looking for a variation on the sound provided by the FocusPads. I've got FocusPad-As coming, since HFM shipped my 560s with one of each pad type. If there's any notable difference, I'll post a follow-up.
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There may be something that could rein HE560 much closer to HE500 in musicality, without loosing its finesse, but I have to do more testing to know for sure.
tl;dr: different pads might get you close.
The Full Monty:
I ended up mutilating the AKG Q701 pads I'd been using on my HE-500s. Seems the new (HE-560) mounting rings are a bit smaller than the old rings. The foam donuts of the Q701 pads survived just fine though, and trimming the outside edge, and trimming the old mounting rings, allowed this combo to pass under the HE-560 yokes, thus allowing for a proper fit. Without trimming, the rings and foam just bumped up against the yokes.
Very interesting change to the sound. The foam is quite dense, which may have something to do with it, and there is more room "inside" compared to the FocusPads (and that's with a Creatology stiff foam riser ring inserted into the FocusPads). My ears like the roomier aspect. The sound is warmer in the low end, with more quantity, but the highs are still pretty shimmering. Vocals are also presented well (male; don't have much music with female vocals). This new pad setup employs jerg's "get rid of the mesh dust filter on the FocusPads" mod, sort of by necessity, as I don't have mesh to add to the Q701 foam donuts. In my few back and forths trying to compare the two, guitars could seem a little distant with the Q701 pads, but that was with a less-than-perfectly recorded album, and even the FocusPads couldn't bring it up out of the murky depths.
I should note my HE-560s only have about 40 hours on them thus far.
One thing that does benefit is the soundstage, as with the Q701 pads on the HE-500s. Before my 500s went bad, I was using the FocusPads on them with pretty good success, but the un-mutilated Q701 pads still produced a superior soundstage. I'm using the same large hexagonal openings grills I was using on the HE-500s. The imaging may be less precise with the mutilated Q701 pads, as the angling is not as pronounced without the velour covers. I'm pretty sure the velour was pulled tight to compress the foam to create the angle. I've yet to figure out how to replicate that by hand. I've got some nice microsuede with which to try.
I'd love to see a measurement, as this sound makes me think of a U- or V-shaped curve (HE-400s? Never heard them, but that description comes to mind). I can't say it's definitely worth buying the Q701 pads, but they're not that expensive in the U.S. direct from AKG (mine were $35 shipped). Anyway, something to consider if you're looking for a variation on the sound provided by the FocusPads. I've got FocusPad-As coming, since HFM shipped my 560s with one of each pad type. If there's any notable difference, I'll post a follow-up.
Well I'm still playing around but yes, pads are it when it comes to retuning HE560s, they appear to be very sensitive to different earpads indeed. And my finding is also that the foam density has a huge role on the overall tilt of the FR (higher density pad foam = more low-end grunt / fullness, and vise versa). Strangely I find that imaging seems to improve when the earpads are thinner.
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Strangely I find that imaging seems to improve when the earpads are thinner.
I was wondering about just that... I was playing with where my headphones rest relative to my ears, like in the "tips and tricks" on the meier-audio website to see if there was a shift in the prevalence of certain voices, but found none. I guess I was wondering if the angle of the drivers, and the increased lift away from concha would have anything to do with ultimate experience. Like I said, I didn't hear a whole lot of difference re: position on head, but the point about thinner pads is interesting.
Separately, I have to get that image of Jan wearing his HD-6xx and smiling all cheshire at the camera out of my head now... I don't think the picture is on the website anymore, but you know what I am talking about. Creepy.
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Well I'm still playing around but yes, pads are it when it comes to retuning HE560s, they appear to be very sensitive to different earpads indeed. And my finding is also that the foam density has a huge role on the overall tilt of the FR (higher density pad foam = more low-end grunt / fullness, and vise versa). Strangely I find that imaging seems to improve when the earpads are thinner.
Yep, that sums it up nicely. Having switched back to the FocusPads while working on the others, the imaging does seem better. How much that's a matter of the properties of the foam vs. the amount of space inside, I'm not sure. I'm about to attempt putting rings of microsuede onto the dense Q701 pad foam. Attachment problems may make that impossible, but if I succeed, and I can detect any serious changes, I'll post a followup.
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It seems the only real criticism for HE560 is it doesn't sound as "full" as the dual-ended Hifiman planars, which I do also feel is somewhat the case. Hard to say what "fullness" really is though, it doesn't seem to be a matter of the FR, maybe it's a specific decay pattern in the lower mids.
Conversely, at least with my HE500 one might say it doesn't have the agility in decay as HE560. So that perception of "fullness" goes both ways.
The HE560 is definitely a little on the dry side. I've found that it has a remarkable ability to make 80s recordings sound a little cleaner, while recordings from the 90s and up run a chance of adding a little hardness to the vocals because of the upper mid bump. It's still a less annoying upper mid bump than with the K701s.
If EQ'ed properly I think the HE560 won't embellish recordings to a noticeable degree, might be a good headphone for those in music production.
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Is the 9.5 kHz peak gone? He-5, 5LE, 500 and 6 all got it :&
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http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1654.msg43922.html#msg43922 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1654.msg43922.html#msg43922)
Relative to its surroundings, the 9-10k peak is gone. Instead there is a "peak" in the 4k range, but one can argue that has to do with the 560's more aggressive downward slope from 1k-2k, when compared to the 500 (560 ends about 2-3dB lower from origin point). I really liked my 500, and the 9-10k peak never drove me mad. I find the differences not extreme, and rather pleasant.
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http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1654.msg43922.html#msg43922 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1654.msg43922.html#msg43922)
Relative to its surroundings, the 9-10k peak is gone. Instead there is a "peak" in the 4k range, but one can argue that has to do with the 560's more aggressive downward slope from 1k-2k, when compared to the 500 (560 ends about 2-3dB lower from origin point). I really liked my 500, and the 9-10k peak never drove me mad. I find the differences not extreme, and rather pleasant.
The mid-treble peak with HE500 isn't bad, persay, because our brains quickly adjust to it. But listening to a well-extended almost completely flat treble like HE560s, it makes HE500's treble sound a heck of a lot grainier than what I always thought it has been (I always praised it as being very smooth in the past). Our hobby is all about reference point, once the bar is set higher, everything under it gets depreciated.
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I can see that with your review of the HE-400i.
I hope the 4 star rating won't refrain new-comers to consider it (vs the HE-400 who got so much praise).
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Our hobby is all about reference point, once the bar is set higher, everything under it gets depreciated.
Too true. I just sold my 500's and nabbed a used set of dt880 for those occasions where I actually want a little high end jab. Not as resolving as the HE-500, but for a brief interlude with a cheap facsimile, I rather enjoy it.
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I can see that with your review of the HE-400i.
I hope the 4 star rating won't refrain new-comers to consider it (vs the HE-400 who got so much praise).
Sucks to be them then, people who don't even bother reading and actively informing themselves don't deserve the best deals.
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Haha, you're cruel...
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So I've had these phones for about a week now and I am looking to upgrade my amp from an Objective 2. I would like to get some improvements in bass and soundstage areas. Currently I am looking at the Schiit Lyr 2, do you guys think it would satisfy me or should I look elsewhere. Budget is not really set in stone but I would rather not go over the price of the headphones themselves.
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I know they're not always practical and vary from brand to brand, unit to unit (not to mention possible need for restoration), but you might be able to find a vintage receiver on Craigslist or eBay that you like for not much money. Sure, they might not have squeaky clean performance numbers, but I dig how orthos sound out of my vintage Sansui 5000A. That's about all the headphones that work on them, though...
I have heard good things around here about the Lyr 2 as well.
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A vintage reciever would be cool but unfortunalety most of the good ones seem to be within the US and shipping is pretty ridiculous fron US to Sweden on big things. Not too mention I will probably have to pay taxes on up to 20% of the cost which makes that option not really viable.
I would really like some kind of tube/hybrid amp though as I like the customizable aspect of tubes. It's just hard for me to know what amps have enough power for planars as most tube amps don't fare that well with planars(from the information I've gathered).
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So I've had these phones for about a week now and I am looking to upgrade my amp from an Objective 2. I would like to get some improvements in bass and soundstage areas. Currently I am looking at the Schiit Lyr 2, do you guys think it would satisfy me or should I look elsewhere. Budget is not really set in stone but I would rather not go over the price of the headphones themselves.
FWIW, I'm loving the HE-560 + Lyr combo. With the grill mod you can get slightly better soundstage. For me, the bass is perfect. On songs and albums I know that have it, it's there in spades. For songs and albums that are bass-heavy (relatively speaking), it's not exaggerated. Different pads or EQ can change that, as has been noted.
Granted, I've only been using my 1983 super-cryo'd Reflectors in the Lyr, as I needed to burn them in, so I can't say how other tubes will fare, but I can't believe the general 560 sound will change that much. I expect them to really sing with my best tubes (Siemens CCas, Telefunken E88CCs).
Another option that people love with the HE-500s is the Project Ember. Only takes a single tube. I think it's just slightly less than the Lyr 2, if you add the supercharger option (something like that).
HTH.
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Yeah Project Ember with supercharger and Lyr 2 are my two main contenders. I also tried them without the grills on and the difference was quite amazing so I'm gonna have to regrill them when I can. It's so hard to decide though as there doesn't seem to be many who have compared both of these amps, especially people who I find credible and share the same preferences as I do.
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Yeah Project Ember with supercharger and Lyr 2 are my two main contenders. I also tried them without the grills on and the difference was quite amazing so I'm gonna have to regrill them when I can. It's so hard to decide though as there doesn't seem to be many who have compared both of these amps, especially people who I find credible and share the same preferences as I do.
I doubt you can go wrong with either, but hopefully you'll find some reviews soon. If I were made of money, I'd buy the Ember, if only to review them both for you ;) I'd love to hear how it stacks up against the Lyr.
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These are my first planar set of cans and I'm really enjoying them. A definite upgrade to the HD700 that I recently returned.
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Just got my set in. Secondhand from a local sale...and, uh, you guys won't believe how I'm listening to them:
I asked for Focus-A, seller very nicely offered to sort that out with Hifiman by shipping his production pads back in exchange for Focus-A pads. He's been waiting a long time on the Focus-A pads now, so he said hey why don't you take the headphones first, and I'll throw in LCD 2 gen 1 pads (they're very stiff and shallow, completely unlike the ones I have on my Mad Dog).
They don't actually fit on the HE-560, instead they're just sitting atop the drivers and held in place by clamping force. I kid you not. It's extremely rudimentary, but it works.
So, FWIW, my initial impressions using slapped-on Audeze (old) pads, out of Vali > Uberfrost: ya, very nice soundstage, natural tone to all instruments, only a touch bright sometimes. Pretty confident the Focus-A pads will fix that brightness.
I think this pair has a bit of channel imalance (L > R). Can't be bothered to ask the seller to send them back, so I'm just using EQ to drop Left by a few dB.
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Just got my set in. Secondhand from a local sale...and, uh, you guys won't believe how I'm listening to them:
I asked for Focus-A, seller very nicely offered to sort that out with Hifiman by shipping his production pads back in exchange for Focus-A pads. He's been waiting a long time on the Focus-A pads now, so he said hey why don't you take the headphones first, and I'll throw in LCD 2 gen 1 pads (they're very stiff and shallow, completely unlike the ones I have on my Mad Dog).
They don't actually fit on the HE-560, instead they're just sitting atop the drivers and held in place by clamping force. I kid you not. It's extremely rudimentary, but it works.
So, FWIW, my initial impressions using slapped-on Audeze (old) pads, out of Vali > Uberfrost: ya, very nice soundstage, natural tone to all instruments, only a touch bright sometimes. Pretty confident the Focus-A pads will fix that brightness.
I think this pair has a bit of channel imalance (L > R). Can't be bothered to ask the seller to send them back, so I'm just using EQ to drop Left by a few dB.
Imbalance might very well be caused by the misfitting earpads.
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Just got my set in. Secondhand from a local sale...and, uh, you guys won't believe how I'm listening to them:
I asked for Focus-A, seller very nicely offered to sort that out with Hifiman by shipping his production pads back in exchange for Focus-A pads. He's been waiting a long time on the Focus-A pads now, so he said hey why don't you take the headphones first, and I'll throw in LCD 2 gen 1 pads (they're very stiff and shallow, completely unlike the ones I have on my Mad Dog).
They don't actually fit on the HE-560, instead they're just sitting atop the drivers and held in place by clamping force. I kid you not. It's extremely rudimentary, but it works.
So, FWIW, my initial impressions using slapped-on Audeze (old) pads, out of Vali > Uberfrost: ya, very nice soundstage, natural tone to all instruments, only a touch bright sometimes. Pretty confident the Focus-A pads will fix that brightness.
I think this pair has a bit of channel imalance (L > R). Can't be bothered to ask the seller to send them back, so I'm just using EQ to drop Left by a few dB.
Use double sided tape and tape them directly to the cups. That's how I use my Vegan pads on HE-6. Sounds better than all the Hifiman pads.
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jerg: yeah, I hope that's it. Saw on HF that some units had different impedances than they were supposed to; was worried this unit of mine might have different impedances between the 2 channels.
ohhgourami: I don't have to worry about damaging/affecting the driver? Because they're behind the dust screen? I didn't realise stick-em-on pads was a thing!
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ohhgourami: I don't have to worry about damaging/affecting the driver? Because they're behind the dust screen? I didn't realise stick-em-on pads was a thing!
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/2/2c/900x900px-LL-2c52930c_DSC_01941.jpeg)
(http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/975571/width/350/height/700/flags/LL/)
Lined the edge of the cup with double sided tape and stuck the pads directly on. I think it's better than using the hifiman rings to attach the pads as hifiman rings can get warped which leaves an air gap causing channel imbalance.
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Hm this looks doable even for a butterfingers like me. And I could tape up the flaky edges of the Audeze pad while I'm at it.
Is it easy to attach a regular Hifiman pad in the future?
I don't want a crazy sticky residue on the ring.
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This does not affect how you attach the Hifiman pads in the future.
Go to any office supply store and buy the "yellow" 3M double sided tape. Cut it to the shape you need. Attach it to the pads first. After you're done, stick it on a t-shirt like 5 times to lessen the stickiness. More than sticky enough to hold the pads there yet won't leave residue or be a pain in the ass to take off.
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Got to try the HE-560s out at my local headphone shop yesterday. One thing that I feel not many people point out is that whilst these are an improvement on the HE-500s in terms of comfort, they're still no where near the most comfortable headphones around (and IMO, not $1000 AUD price tag material).
I found the ear cups to be too small and the edges would bristle against my ears. Clamping force also felt uncomfortably strong. The headband was great, but I think the design was transferring the force of the headphones weight to the ear pads (hence the clamping force). Whilst the HE-560s have lost a lot of the HE-500s weight, it is still an ortho and is still heavier than most dynamic headphones. Essentially this means that you will still feel the weight of the headphones on the headband, just not uncomfortably so like the HE-500s.
The velour is improved from the alternative HE-500 pads, but they're still not sennheiser/beyerdynamic quality. I still get a bit of that itchy feel from them.
Sound quality wise, they sound like HD800s without the excessive treble, but also lacking in the soundstage department. Though take my audio impressions with a grain of salt since I wasn't using my own dac/amp setup :) I feel they do sound better than the HE-500s, but the two are quite different.
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I hear you on the edge bristling against your ears. Kind of annoying isn't it, especially if its a seam which happens to have a sharp unfinished edge sticking out slightly. While HFM has made progress, they are nowhere near Senn in terms of finish.
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SUBJECTIVE IMPRESSIONS + COMPARISON TO ABYSS
I'll make it short and call the HE-560 Abyss Lite.
- Tonal response and presentation very similar to Abyss with some minor differences:
- More 4k emphasis on HE-560, whereas Abyss has more 9k emphasis. The HE-560 is also just a hair warmer. But again both headphones are very similar in terms of tone and presentation.
- HE-560 tends to have a more plasticky timbre, Abyss has more steely timbre. Please don't go around saying I said the HE-560 sounds plasicky. It doesn't. Just trying to find words to describe the differences.
- Abyss has better microdetail extraction, but HE-560 plankton retrieval is very good and something I find quite satisfying. This cannot be said with the HE-500 or even the AKG K812 (see impressions elsewhere on this site to read how the K812 fails in this regard even in the face of the "lowly" HD600.)
- Abyss has more bass power and tighter bass. Bass on HE-560 can sometimes be soft compared against the Abyss. HE-560 is still no slouch in the area. And as mentioned earlier, a huge improvement over the HE-500's mushy bass.
- Abyss has better layering and separation.
- Percussion sounds snappier and less soft on Abyss.
VERDICT: FOUR STARS
I was asked earlier if I felt the HE-560 was worth it. I said yes, assuming that the HE-560 cost $1199. (I have no idea why I thought this.) Anyways, at $899, I find the HE-560 quite a good deal.
Why the comparison to the Abyss? It's not fair no? Because you get 80-90% of it at well less than 20% of the cost. The HE-560 represents a significant improvement over the earlier iterations. Better tonal balance than HE-5/6 and better technicalities and refinement over HE-500. It's all growed up now.
I nominate "plankton retrieval" for the 'Term of the Year'.
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I would generally steer away from tubes or lower powered amps - tends to sound soft. High Z tube amps like EC ZD or WA-2 are not recommended. EC 4-45 was fantastic, but that is an exception to the guidance. The headphone definitely does scale. Even the Objective 2 drove the HE-560 well. So no need for a mega powered speaker amp. It's not that hard to drive.
Dang. I've only got tubes and hybrids round here.
Hybrids do not automatically present a problem. It depends; are the tubes [valves] at the signal output stage or are they in the pre-amp voltage boost section of the amplifier ? They can be in the pre-amp with no corresponding substantial 'coloration' of sound.
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ohhgourami, thanks so much for the detailed instructions on attaching the Vegan pads. I got the headphones back from Hifiman and the channels are now balanced, plus it came with BOTH Focus and Focus-A pads, so out of convenience, I tried them instead. Currently using Focus-A for both fit and sound.
(The flaking on the old Audeze pads was pretty bad anyway.)
Soundstage doesn't seem as wide as I recall with the flaky Audeze pads. Based on sth Marv mentioned about Adele's "Chasing Pavements" with the HE-400i, I tried the same track (studio recording) on the 560. Shrill; I think the recording itself is just that way, is it not?
Otherwise, yeah, I think I see what some of you have said about the startling realism of the 560. I'm not a musician, but instruments do sound more correct than I've heard them on any other headphone. FWIW all this is just with a Vali; I have no other amps that'll run a planar.
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Adele the singer is great. Adele the mastering sux hard. I see no value in any Adele for reviews or impressions. Just too awful.
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Based on sth Marv mentioned about Adele's "Chasing Pavements" with the HE-400i, I tried the same track (studio recording) on the 560. Shrill; I think the recording itself is just that way, is it not?
Marginal recording. It's both recording and gear. You can tell of the track's tendencies on my EQ'd speaker rig, but it's not difficult to listen to on my speakers. A good track to test for 3kHz peakage. Recordings which are too good don't highlight FR issues as well.
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Adele the singer is great. Adele the mastering sux hard.
Phew glad to know I'm not the only one who thought the mastering was suspect.
Marv that track is peaky on 3khz? I thought the 560 is peaky at 4khz?
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Close enough - think broad bumps and areas: 2-3 shouty, 3-4 shrill, 4-5 edgy, 5-7 hardness/glare, 7-9 sibilance, 9-12 tizzy / defined
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Problem I have with noisy, compressed, grainy, unrefined MP3/Motown car stereo recordings is they are so bad you can't tell source gear or phones that have the same 'qualities' from the track itself. Plus it's depressing when you hear good content butchered.
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it's depressing when you hear good content butchered.
Amen !
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Hi guys! I am thinking of grabbing this pair but still looking/planning to grab an amp to go with it.
I already got Portatube plus amp from last year that i mainly use with dt880 pro(250ohm) but still not sure if Output Power @ 32Ω = 208mW will up to the task or not (if not i probably just go grab Vali or Lyr2 with it) , is this one that hard to drive? I never use hifiman's headphone before and i honestly do feels like they are a beast to drive.
Thanks!
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The 560 isn't that beastly. I had it running comfortably off a FiiO X1 (could be better obviously, but it's not an amp pig like the HE-6).
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The 560 isn't that beastly. I had it running comfortably off a FiiO X1 (could be better obviously, but it's not an amp pig like the HE-6).
Sorry to derail, but how's the X1 soundwise?, I'm looking for a replacement to my Clip+ with more power / better dynamics, but otherwise similar sounding, it seems like the X1 would fit the bill.
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The sound is a decent. I've only had a few days with it (and it ships off to the next reviewer tomorrow). Definitely more power than the Clip+ and Fuze. I'd say slightly more defined sounding across the board. It's big and heavy compared to the Sansas though. The UI is kinda weird too; not bad once you get used to it, but still odd in a few places.
For me, I don't feel it brings enough improvement in sound to justify the extra size/weight/cost for portable pocket use. As something to take to the office or sit in a library, sure.
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Brief impressions with Vali and Pico (DAC/amp, but using amp section only):
Vali doesn't do the highs any favours. If there's a hint of brightness / hot mastering, it sounds borderline piercing. Otherwise quite alright. I think this is thanks to how realistically HE-560 portrays instruments. Soundstage feels a bit narrow. Am on 10 o'clock on volume.
Pico is actually smoother up top, and therefore sounds more pleasant. Bass seems stronger, prolly equally tight. Am on 11-12 o'clock, on high gain.
Both amps fed out of Bifrost Uber.
Seriously considering Asgard 2 for more solid state goodness than the Pico can punch out. For practical reasons the Pico is in constant danger of being yanked around, and I'll have to keep it charged. I guess I'll have to get rid of the Pico.
People on HF keep recommending Garage Project amps, but I really dislike the open design. Also, it's the same few people raving about those amps and I don't know them well enough to take their word as gospel.
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Caved; bought an Asgard 2.
It's better than the Vali for this headphone.
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Just got these a couple of days ago and I'm very impressed. I have not yet compared these to Paradox Slant, but I can say that I find them very close to neutral. Detail retrieval is fantastic and these may be the cleanest, clearest sounding headphones I've ever listened to, without being especially bright or harsh. I've never heard a headphone that renders treble quite like this, but the closest experience I can remember was a friend's entry-level STAX system. I'm quite happy with these headphones.
Edit: May be some time before I make any comparisons. Once I put these on, they don't want to come back off till I'm ready to take a break from listening to music.
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Got a pair of these in today. Initial impression is that there's lots to like. They feel significantly lighter than the 500s and look much less cobbled together. They sound good across genres, and I found myself toe tapping. They sound somewhat lean though, I'm kinda wishing for a fuller/warmer sound. Clamp still kinda sucks. The stock pads are kinda grainy? Not sure if that's the right word, they somehow rub against my ears the wrong way.
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Got a pair of these in today. Initial impression is that there's lots to like. They feel significantly lighter than the 500s and look much less cobbled together. They sound good across genres, and I found myself toe tapping. They sound somewhat lean though, I'm kinda wishing for a fuller/warmer sound. Clamp still kinda sucks. The stock pads are kinda grainy? Not sure if that's the right word, they somehow rub against my ears the wrong way.
re: the pads, you could try smoothing the grain of the velour prior to putting them on. May help a little. I like deep pads and ended up making my own.
re: clamping, you can bend the spring steel at the curve point. Just expose the max amount on the cup side, place your thumbs on either side of the curve point, and then bend outward, applying steady pressure for a few seconds. Repeat on the other side. Test. Bend more if too tight, bend back if too loose, though in my experience if not kept flexed on a suitable stand (the curved "head" shaped ones), the tension will return. If so, just bend a little again, and they'll be as right as rain. They were killing me at first, until people told me about that little trick. Instant relief.
HTH.
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@purr1n
Do you know what may be causing strange measurements in the treble? Both the FR plot and CSD you provided indicate little response between 10k-20k and Tyll's FR measurement looks pretty similar in this region, however most people here (myself included) hear it as quite neutral and Tyll hears it as a pretty bright headphone. You seem convinced that it is some sort of measurement artifact and I'm inclined to agree, but I'm curious as to why the measurements look this way.
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It's an artifact that comes from averaging the impulse responses. At least to my knowledge...
Do a single sweep or run PN through the system and you shouldn't see any nulls up there.
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I think I may prefer the HE-560 to the Slants. Bass is a bit more neutral, but still has some oomph and is very detailed. I feel that bass textures and details are easier to pick out on the 560. The midrange is similar, but a little less thick. The bump in the upper midrange adds a little bit of bite when compared to the Slant, but never seems too aggressive to me. Treble seems flatter, resulting in a brighter sound, whereas the Slant is a touch dark in comparison, yet the HE-560 seems a little less prone to sibilance on most of my marginal recordings and makes it easier to listen to formerly problematic tracks. There's a sense of effortlessness to the treble that the Slant can't quite match.
I'd say the HE-560 is a bit better overall, though the Slants make for a more relaxing listen, when the extra edge of the 560's upper mids is less appreciated. Quite a nice headphone.
Edit: The Slant is also vastly preferable, with regards to comfort. The HE-560 is reasonably comfortable, but the Slant is like wearing high quality leather furniture. Very soft and gentle.
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I think I may prefer the HE-560 to the Slants. Bass is a bit more neutral, but still has some oomph and is very detailed. I feel that bass textures and details are easier to pick out on the 560. The midrange is similar, but a little less thick. The bump in the upper midrange adds a little bit of bite when compared to the Slant, but never seems too aggressive to me. Treble seems flatter, resulting in a brighter sound, whereas the Slant is a touch dark in comparison, yet the HE-560 seems a little less prone to sibilance on most of my marginal recordings and makes it easier to listen to formerly problematic tracks. There's a sense of effortlessness to the treble that the Slant can't quite match.
I'd say the HE-560 is a bit better overall, though the Slants make for a more relaxing listen, when the extra edge of the 560's upper mids is less appreciated. Quite a nice headphone.
Edit: The Slant is also vastly preferable, with regards to comfort. The HE-560 is reasonably comfortable, but the Slant is like wearing high quality leather furniture. Very soft and gentle.
Interesting on the sibilance... I haven't heard HE-560s yet but my personal pair of Slants is very sibilance-free. Like more sibilance-free than both LCD-2 and HE-500 (and pretty much every other audiophile headphone I have owned so far). Really smooth and sibilance-free sound even with black metal stuff or Taylor Swift :-P Well, there is always room for improvement I guess but hard to imagine as far as sibilance goes here, IMHO...
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I think I may prefer the HE-560 to the Slants. Bass is a bit more neutral, but still has some oomph and is very detailed. I feel that bass textures and details are easier to pick out on the 560. The midrange is similar, but a little less thick. The bump in the upper midrange adds a little bit of bite when compared to the Slant, but never seems too aggressive to me. Treble seems flatter, resulting in a brighter sound, whereas the Slant is a touch dark in comparison, yet the HE-560 seems a little less prone to sibilance on most of my marginal recordings and makes it easier to listen to formerly problematic tracks. There's a sense of effortlessness to the treble that the Slant can't quite match.
I'd say the HE-560 is a bit better overall, though the Slants make for a more relaxing listen, when the extra edge of the 560's upper mids is less appreciated. Quite a nice headphone.
Edit: The Slant is also vastly preferable, with regards to comfort. The HE-560 is reasonably comfortable, but the Slant is like wearing high quality leather furniture. Very soft and gentle.
Interesting on the sibilance... I haven't heard HE-560s yet but my personal pair of Slants is very sibilance-free. Like more sibilance-free than both LCD-2 and HE-500 (and pretty much every other audiophile headphone I have owned so far). Really smooth and sibilance-free sound even with black metal stuff or Taylor Swift :-P Well, there is always room for improvement I guess but hard to imagine as far as sibilance goes here, IMHO...
It's definitely not a severe problem on the Slants, but there are certainly tracks where I get a "sharper" sound from syllables containing the letters S or T, using the Slants. The number of tracks I have where this is a problem amount to maybe six or seven, at most, but it is something that I have noticed. It's not that the Slants have more treble energy, either. I just perceive the HE-560 as having slightly smoother treble versus the Slant.
If you ask me whether I would generally consider the Slants to be a sibilant sounding headphone, I'd most certainly say no.
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Hi guys,
Looking at upgrading my HE-500. I was wondering if HE-560 is a sidegrade ( not an upgrade ) in terms of SQ with respect to HE-500.
Thanks
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Hi guys,
Looking at upgrading my HE-500. I was wondering if HE-560 is a sidegrade ( not an upgrade ) in terms of SQ with respect to HE-500.
Thanks
I find them different enough to keep both. For me, the HE-560s do detail retrieval, imaging and sound stage much better, and with jerg's Enhancement Mods, the bass moves up a level to achieve depth, impact and precision beyond the HE-500s. That said, there's something about the HE-500s with certain stuff that keeps me reaching for them. Call it the wall/wash-o'-sound which presents as a lushness the HE-560s don't have. Variety being the spice of life, I'm keeping both.
FWIW, both pairs of cans have been heavily jergified, but I'm using the new memory foam HM5 velour pads on the HE-500s, and a pair of DIY pads on the HE-560s (about to be replaced, possibly, with a new DIY design). Unless you really love big, roomy pads, the FocusPads or FocusPad-As will do fine.
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Big thanks to aufmerksam for letting me borrow his HE-560! I've been looking forward to trying these out quite a bit.
Unfortunately, I just do not care for these at all. Bass and mids are generally pretty good. Measured distortion more or less maxes out what my setup is capable of.
Otherwise, these just sound really hashy to me. Just way too rough and over-emphasized in the low-to-mid treble or so. Honestly a bit hard for me to listen to for more than a minute. This was with the FocusPad-A, and I didn't even bother to try the newer iteration of the pads.
I wasn't crazy about the stock HE-500, but I liked it more than this by a good margin. I liked it a whole lot more with modded pads than the HE-560, even with the HE-500s inherent downsides.
Note that I foobared the measurement settings, as it should read 90dB @ 1KHz on the measurements. Oops. Just bump it up in your mind. Large dips are probably artifacts, at least partially. Oh, and probably messed up the pad seal on a couple of those left measurements.
Oh, I do like the new headband. Clamping force is a bit weird. They feel kind of cheap in some areas overall. I don't care for the fake wood look. Cable connectors feel better.
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Eep! Those csds look terrifying!! I know it isn't as bad as it looks, but right now I feel like a guy who has bought a drink for a woman across the club, who was attractive from that distance, but now that she is much closer, and in that awful light they have right next to the bar, so the bartender can see better...
I can still find a way to enjoy the encounter, but those csds will haunt me.
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Doesn't like quite like Marv's CSDs of the stock he-560s or the modded he-560s.
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Eh, Marv and I use different methods. They're just measurements. Use your ears to tell you what you like. :) (And do remember my measurements actually use my ear/head, so not necessarily 100% representative of what others will hear.)
Also, trust me, you can do a lot worse than those CSDs.
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No no, I know. I have no intention of stopping enjoying them, as I said I know it's not as bad as that looks. What I hear is not as bleak as the little scene I described above, and I've been missing them while they are away. It's just funny the little games the mind plays when you see a couple of polite daggers run through a csd.
Sorry you didn't like them as much, but glad you won't be lingering with them. Many thanks for the measurements and review!
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FWIW, I don't hear any of the ringing with my modded pair. Marv's measurements have the ortho wall around 4khz as well, so I guess it's really not too different now that I took a better look.
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whöp. thanks for sharing those measurements, Hans! I just need to ask... mind elaborating on the HE-500 vs HE-560, in regards to the roughness?
I have not had the chance to compare these yet, and I don't have either at hand currently, but I'm kind of considering the HE-560... and I don't like rough treble much :P
is it something that can be alleviated with the right DAC/amp setup, or is there something else going on here maybe?
I only have LCD-2 and MA900 currently, but I don't know if comparing it to those is going to make sense at all. and my memory of HE-500 is probably too vague currently.
cheers!
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My quick'n'dirty mod to alleviate that treble hash was to crisscross two strips of felt in front of the driver. I can't remember which pad I did that with... I think the -A revision.
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Speaking of which, are these HE560s equipped with the Focus or Focus-A's?
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Focus-A, but he did say the measurements were raw, so I guess uncompensated?
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They're compensated for some inherent bass roll off on my hardware but otherwise I don't use much compensation on my setup since I use an in-ear mic for measurements. This HE560 sounded pretty rough and trebled focused relative to, say, the Senns I have had or currently have on hand, so it is relatively accurate and certainly consistent among my other results. My "raw" results really just mean non-averaged more than anything.
And, as always, did listening before measurements. Well, as much as I could.
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@hans030390: I'm in the same boat. Can't bear the HE560 more than a minute. Really. walk the plank2
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whöp. thanks for sharing those measurements, Hans! I just need to ask... mind elaborating on the HE-500 vs HE-560, in regards to the roughness?
is it something that can be alleviated with the right DAC/amp setup, or is there something else going on here maybe?
I only have LCD-2 and MA900 currently, but I don't know if comparing it to those is going to make sense at all. and my memory of HE-500 is probably too vague currently.
Well, it's primarily just the differences in treble that make or break it for me. The HE-500 wasn't perfectly flat by any means but followed a neutral curve a bit better. The HE-560 according to my ears, and later measurements, just has that large treble emphasis around 4KHz. Maybe rough isn't the best word to use, but that describes how I felt it treated my ears during a brief listen.
If you're at all like me, and you might not be, I doubt a DAC/amp will fix it. I tried it from a warm DAC and amp and still wasn't too crazy about what I was hearing. Now, that's not to say headphone mods couldn't help.
I haven't heard the LCD-2 or MA900, so I can't say for sure. And while my memory of the HE-500 is starting to get poor for comparisons, I do remember thinking it sounded more on the neutral side (w/ modded pads) than the HE-560 (with Focus A pads). Yeah, 560 has some technical strengths over it, but I couldn't get past the treble on the 560.
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Well, it's primarily just the differences in treble that make or break it for me. The HE-500 wasn't perfectly flat by any means but followed a neutral curve a bit better. The HE-560 according to my ears, and later measurements, just has that large treble emphasis around 4KHz. Maybe rough isn't the best word to use, but that describes how I felt it treated my ears during a brief listen.
If you're at all like me, and you might not be, I doubt a DAC/amp will fix it. I tried it from a warm DAC and amp and still wasn't too crazy about what I was hearing. Now, that's not to say headphone mods couldn't help.
I haven't heard the LCD-2 or MA900, so I can't say for sure. And while my memory of the HE-500 is starting to get poor for comparisons, I do remember thinking it sounded more on the neutral side (w/ modded pads) than the HE-560 (with Focus A pads). Yeah, 560 has some technical strengths over it, but I couldn't get past the treble on the 560.
ahh, right. well I am not sure I will understand it until I hear it... maybe a guess from your measurements :p
it's not like the HD800 treble boost? cause I find that one to have a quite "refined" treble, just a bit too boosted for my tastes.
if it isn't "thin", then I don't think a thicker/warmer source/amp will help it either, unfortunately! though I don't really plan to use anything overly warm with whatever headphones I end up with.
I hope I'll get to try these soon enough... :) this is mostly just curiousity, since I really do plan on trying them out beforehand - just not sure what DAC/amp I will have at hand.
I'm curious about mods, though. I don't suppose I could sneak those in while demoing them without messing anything up?
thanks for the great replies!
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(http://cdn.head-fi.org/2/2c/900x900px-LL-2c52930c_DSC_01941.jpeg)
(http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/975571/width/350/height/700/flags/LL/)
Lined the edge of the cup with double sided tape and stuck the pads directly on. I think it's better than using the hifiman rings to attach the pads as hifiman rings can get warped which leaves an air gap causing channel imbalance.
Those look pretty comfortable. Is there a difference between the LCD-2 and LCD-3 pads, are they the same size?
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Does anybody here have a good idea of where I can get some gently used Focus A pads? I've been checking Head Direct for new pairs a couple of times a week for about a month now and have had no luck. I still love the sound of these stock and don't particularly think I "need" to smooth things out much, but I'd like to hear what difference it makes, if any. Or if it can improve the already stellar comfort experience with the headphone.
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This is of a different pair of HE-560 to the one that was originally measured here... but... here's the difference between Focus Pads and Focus Pads A on my rig. Super-zoomed. Notice 4KHz being pushed down, but also 8-10KHz taking a bit of a rise? And also low bass got a boost?
I heard all of those. And I don't think I'm crazy. Or hey... maybe the room I'm in creates this effect? :P
Notice ringing at 4KHz with Focus Pads is gone with Focus Pads A. I always "thought" that the 4KHz ringing on the HE-560 wasn't the usual ortho-wall. And now I guess I kinda have some confirmation that it's actually ringing.
Yay for science! Or... nay! This means the stock HE-560 DOES have some issues. :)p8
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Initially I found that even with some mods to the HE-560 there's that treble spike.
Originally I had used some shelf liners with smallish holes and foam, but these were still giving me problems with the sound. The treble was occasionally peaky--enough to bother me to get the stuff that jerg recommended (Con-Tact brand)...had it brought all the way from the US.
I added the fibrous fluff that was left over from the HE-6 mod, and stuffed that into insides of the cups (over the Con-Tact, and under the mesh from the Focus-A pads). I think fiberglass insulation or a teased cotton ball would also do for those who want to experiment.
I'm liking the sound a lot with the treble now a bit more controlled, and actually find the new shelf liners airier.
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unable to find any pre-production pads...
is there any other pad that will take down the lower treble/upper mids area like the pre-prod ones seem to do?
I actually do like them as-is with gear I have tried them with, but wouldn't mind trying something different and see if it can be even better.
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unable to find any pre-production pads...
is there any other pad that will take down the lower treble/upper mids area like the pre-prod ones seem to do?
I actually do like them as-is with gear I have tried them with, but wouldn't mind trying something different and see if it can be even better.
Are you talking about the FocusPads-A? These are the pads with no perforated pleather on the inside, it is all velour.
If so then Hifiman still carries them. May not be on head-direct but if you contact them they may be able to send to you.
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Focus A pads on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/FocusPad-A-Headphone-Replacement-Ear-Pads-for-HIFIMAN-HE400-560-400i-/251940455977?hash=item3aa8d24629
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well fiddle-diddles, I didn't know that Focus-A is the same as pre-production. I am a terrible Googler it seems.
head-direct actually does still have them.
thanks and sorry about the oopsie!
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My HE560's came in today; 1 day a head of schedule! :)p1
Coming from AD700's, boy are these different. There's stuff in the basement, and there's rumble from a Bass! To me, there is no "over-brightness" because I'm coming from a place of scorching Sun. In fact, female vocals seem "veiled" in the higher ranges because the AD700's are so bright. But, there's a sizzle to Synthpop (Tommy february6) that I never heard before.
The difference in sensitivity was a bit frightening as I have never had to turn up my computers to even 50% before the AD700's became too loud. With the HE560, I had to bring in the Nakamichi and turned the Nak up to an 11! headbang
Good positioning in Borderlands2 with THXStudio; gunfire and explosions seem sharper.
The Neutrik 1/8" plug is huge, and the clamp force is high but under uncomfortable. I can see wearing them for hours without issue.
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Geez man, that's like going from a Hyundai Accent to a Corvette.
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Geez man, that's like going from a Hyundai Accent to a Corvette.
This is much cheaper as a midlife crisis upgrade. :)p7
I was actually worried that I was not going to like the sound signature of the HE560, but so far, I think HE560 has the signature I was looking for: relatively flat, neutral base that extends down, and a bit bright.
Also, sorry if this is the wrong place for this. I didn't find an "impressions" thread for the HE560 so I necro'd this one.
EDITed.