CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Head Amps, DACs, Sources, Portable Equipment Discussion => Topic started by: OJneg on September 04, 2015, 04:21:14 AM
-
Just got a BH Crack on loan from a friend.
(http://i.imgur.com/gDkPFtQ.jpg)
I know at least a few pirates own this amp. Discuss.
-
As can be expected, lovely match with the HD 6x0s, not as much with the HD 800 (but then it is unfair IMO to compare the Crack with , say, the ZDS)....definitely needs the Speedball upgrade.
-
Upon comparison with your Torpedo, OJ...my Crack without Speedball was not clean or fast or resolving but had a big sound. Your Torpedo Amp made me finally install the Speedball upgrade and it cleaned up/tightened up considerably. Thank you for that loan!
Crack was really cool to put together and at the price, with HD580/600/650 it is a no-brainer and a great amp. I should listen to it more. Has a nice small footprint. Not as hot as other tube amps. I haven't even upgraded caps or gotten any other tubes for it. I should!
Punchy, forward, thick, fun. Satisfying at lower levels if your volume pot is good enough at R/L channel balance for the resistance of your headphones...it seems like a natural "loudness" function of Bass/Treble compared to some amps.
Just say yes to Crack & Speedballs. For many, it is as much fun as you need. You're just hanging out with crazies here that want all kinds of amps and rigs. (Self-awareness. :)p8 )
-
CT, I upgraded one cap ( its a larger one, forget the name) but there was no space for the other (I bought two). Definitely punchy and I never bothered using the stock tube. I plugged in an Amperex Golden Globe and very happy with the results. Thad E Ginathom (on this forum) has the amp for now and if I remember right, he did post hearing a more satisfactory SQ from his HD 600 and the Gungnir.
Add: I bought 2 of these (200 uF Clarity Cap TC) and a choke to replace the resistors in the power supply (got these ideas from the BH Crack forum).
http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_clarity_tc6.html
-
My buddy gave me all sorts of stuff to play around with. 3 output tubes, 2 driver tubes, a choke (that might not work?). Output caps are not stock. Also want to swap out the pot :)
-
OJ, after playing around with your Crack, let me know what pot works well. I am using the stock for now.
-
I've built three of them. Great instructions and good project for a beginner with minimal experience.
-
Bah...clarity cap.
-
Any better alternatives please ?
-
Try some Mundorf Evos. Jensen, Jantzen. Of course, Duelund but the size and cost will be as much as a car.
-
Thad E Ginathom (on this forum) has the amp for now and if I remember right, he did post hearing a more satisfactory SQ from his HD 600 and the Gungnir.
Yep. It is with me on trial right now (again, thanks for the loan). Whilst the Gungnir, on approval, sadly (I was full of enthusiasm) didn't work out a good match for my ears (but that's another story entirely), I've enjoyed the full and rich sound of the Crack through my HD600s.
I would say that it softened, took the edge off, the Gungnir. Thus, if a listener wants that edge, then it would not be the right combination.
-
Sure is a fun project the crack, mine has speedball, 41step attenuator, film oil output caps, shielded cable hooked up straight to the volume and upgraded tubes.
Also if the output caps are too big you can mount them on top like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/1TFcm3Ml.jpg)
-
A buddy built the Crack/Speedball and I've had some extensive listening time on the HD580/600. I agree with CT in that the amp is very punchy and forward with these headphones. The Valhalla 1 is less forward, more spacey/better instrument separation, and more syrupy sounding. In the end, I preferred the Valhalla 1 over the Crack/Speedball. A few months ago I upgraded to the Valhalla 2 and it's basically a Valhalla 1 without any syrup. That said, all three amps are comparable to each other for these headphones. Space and resolution: Valhalla. Intimacy and engaging dynamics: Crack/Speedball.
Last week I bought a 6SN7 adapter for Ember from Garage1217, the same adapter works on the Crack for the input tube. The crack looks pretty great with a 6SN7 input tube :D
-
Also if the output caps are too big you can mount them on top like this
Ok, are those caps for real?
-
Ok, are those caps for real?
Yep haha i wanted film oil caps and i could only get them for a reasonable price in a higher voltage. So they had to be huge, they're Obligato's btw.
-
I picked one up recently myself, this listing: http://www.head-fi.org/t/759373/barely-used-modded-bottlehead-crack-with-speedball-shipping-included-pictures-included
Have not yet had a ton of time to listen or even compare to the Val2 or MPX3, nor have I tried tube rolling on the BH Crack. Would be interested to see what other mods or changes I might be able to make to it, but initial impressions are good. I might have to pick up a 6SN7 adapter for myself.
-
I told you a while ago Hans, this thing is your sound for sure. Just don't use the wrong driver tube :-DD :vomit:
-
Oh man, those caps Riotvan... bad memories of cleaning up exploded ones from VFD's at work. That is a Crack with some serious balls, lol.
Wish I had some pictures of the ones that blew at a Shell site a long time ago... they were in some 5kV drives and took out part of the wall behind them :-0
-
HD580/600/650/800 ... very punchy
120ohm output impedance and Sennheiser headphone impedance curves. Hmm, still need to experiment with high Z adapter with Rag.
-
Oh man, those caps Riotvan... bad memories of cleaning up exploded ones from VFD's at work. That is a Crack with some serious balls, lol.
Wish I had some pictures of the ones that blew at a Shell site a long time ago... they were in some 5kV drives and took out part of the wall behind them :-0
Hahaha, these are rated for 400V and the guy i bought them from said it should be fine. I think the stock ones are like 150V or something not sure. I'll just make sure the wall isn't load bearing :-DD
-
Have not yet had a ton of time to listen or even compare to the Val2
Please do post your impressions of your Crack+Speedball vs Valhalla 2.
Cheers.
-
I told you a while ago Hans, this thing is your sound for sure. Just don't use the wrong driver tube :-DD :vomit:
It wasn't that long ago, unless I'm forgetting a previous time you told me. ;) I picked one up very shortly after our most recent conversation, ha. You have any recommendations for tubes? I'm just using whatever was thrown in with the amp.
Initial tests do make me think it at least has potential to be a bit more tubey sounding than the Val2, and more powerful/dynamic. Val2 can either be a bit too solid state and slightly rough sounding (tubes can change this or shift the rough spots around, so could all be tubes I've tried) or not dynamic sounding enough for me.
-
Only have 2 drivers ATM but you probably want something NOS that's Japanese made
-
I like the mullard cv4003. Also if it has the standard socket watch out with new production tubes with gold prins. They are slightly thicker and mess up your socket for NOS tubes. Mine has a Russian military socket now, much tougher.
-
Try some Mundorf Evos. Jensen, Jantzen. Of course, Duelund but the size and cost will be as much as a car.
Yeah, decent 100uf caps up there in price, and in my experience, you don't want to skimp on the capacitance value for the crack's output caps, or deep bass will roll off. I was told on the forums that 91uf Axon's film caps (rebranded Solen's) would be just fine since partsconnexion had them on clearance, and in most respects they were. Certainly better sounding than the stock Panny electrolytics. Later on, I wound up picking up a pair of 100uf Obliggato film "PSU caps," which sound much better than the Axon's, particularly in the lows. I think some of this is the increase from 91uf to 100uf and some of it is just that the Obliggato's are better caps (less grain for sure). I had read good things about them, but what sold me were the dissipation factor measurements on diyhifisupply: http://www.diyhifisupply.com/opcart/index.php?route=product/category&path=179_90_99 - I bought through partsconnexion though where they are a little cheaper (at least pre-shipping).
-
I like the mullard cv4003. Also if it has the standard socket watch out with new production tubes with gold prins. They are slightly thicker and mess up your socket for NOS tubes. Mine has a Russian military socket now, much tougher.
Oh! Good to know...thanks for when I try some tube rolling in mine. And, I love those crazy caps on top. Like a tube amp version of TruckNutz, but functional!
-
Oh! Good to know...thanks for when I try some tube rolling in mine. And, I love those crazy caps on top. Like a tube amp version of TruckNutz, but functional!
No worries, replacing that socket after it's built is annoying and there's a good chance you'll kill one of those bias leds like i did. TruckNutz... i forgot about those hahaha. But yeah those caps are certainly functional, noticeably smoother then stock though they take a good long while to settle in apparently. But tbh it was hard to tell i was rolling tubes as well.
-
....Space and resolution: Valhalla. Intimacy and engaging dynamics: Crack/Speedball.
Last week I bought a 6SN7 adapter for Ember from Garage1217, the same adapter works on the Crack for the input tube. The crack looks pretty great with a 6SN7 input tube :D
I haven't heard the Valhalla, but this summary description of the crack is right on. It is dynamic, engaging and punchy and throws a good but not expansive soundstage. Although more detailed and resolving than the sluggish WA3, it loses out to certain other well designed amps in the resolution department. This and the slight lack of refinement in the highs did not bother me at all with hd6X0's or dt880's but can be an issue with hd800's, which necessitated a lot of tube rolling to find something I liked.
FWIW - I have not had good experiences with 6sn7 adapters. Tried twice, one of which came from Lowther Club, and both added audible noise with various 6sn7's as compared to the blessed black background I hear with all of my 12au7's and 12bh7's. One other user on bottlehead reported the same outcome with three different adapters. Others report good things /shrug. Bottlehead, and others, have suggested that 6sn7's may perform better/were intended to run with DC, not AC, on the heater pin, so a wallwart of appropriate spec, wired to that tube socket, might actually be the best solution for those who desire to maximize performance with 6sn7's in the A-slot.
Alternatively, Maxhawk (on HF and bottlehead boards) made a really cool speedball replacement board with a selector switch that changes the bias to run 12au7's, e80cc's or 12bh7's at their ideal operating points. See: http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=5989.msg74147#msg74147 He's a really gracious guy and sent me a board at cost. Those of you who are interested may want to reach out.
-
FWIW - I have not had good experiences with 6sn7 adapters. Tried twice, one of which came from Lowther Club, and both added audible noise with various 6sn7's as compared to the blessed black background I hear with all of my 12au7's and 12bh7's. One other user on bottlehead reported the same outcome with three different adapters. Others report good things /shrug. Bottlehead, and others, have suggested that 6sn7's may perform better/were intended to run with DC, not AC, on the heater pin, so a wallwart of appropriate spec, wired to that tube socket, might actually be the best solution for those who desire to maximize performance with 6sn7's in the A-slot.
Filaments are AC heated?
-
Filaments are AC heated?
Yup. On crack they are. On bh's higher end amps, they get regulated dc.
That's the other key consideration with crack, at the point that the kit, speedball, mods, tubes start to approach $1k (recurring sale price of a mainline), you've run off the rails - which is easy to do given the cost of some of the regularly recommended tubes. Still love my crack, and don't ever plan to unload it, but mainline is a true flagship amp. A much more time consuming build also, but so totally worth it.
-
Initial tests do make me think it at least has potential to be a bit more tubey sounding than the Val2, and more powerful/dynamic. Val2 can either be a bit too solid state and slightly rough sounding (tubes can change this or shift the rough spots around, so could all be tubes I've tried) or not dynamic sounding enough for me.
The analogy to solid state makes sense with Val2 because, although an OTL, schiit is using feedback (like virtually all SS amps) to bring down the output impedance and distortion. Otherwise, they would have to use a 6as7/6080 variant as a b-tube/cathode follower like everyone else because it is the only other way to do this without OPT's (at least, according to a long article I read that was mostly over my head). That's why you see that particular power tube family in virtually all other OTL headamps from dark voice, woo, ebay knock-offs and even the Apex Peak.
This basically brings us round to Bottlehead's non-feedback philosophy and the pros and cons of employing feedback depending on what sorts of distortions are most irritating to a given individual. https://passlabs.com/articles/audio-distortion-and-feedback
-
Ok so attenuator makes a big difference. Stock POS open-frame pot is holding things back big time
-
Yup, which one are you using?
-
Yup, which one are you using?
TOCOS 10k
Just installed choke in PS. Interesting.
http://www.alliedelec.com/triad-magnetics-c-7x/70218148/
-
Nice! Any obvious difference with the choke in place? That's a tweak I've been interested in trying but never got around to. How did you mount it?
-
Yeah would be interesting to hear your thoughts on that, have been considering that along with the upgrade for the last cap in the psu. I read you can go a bit lower to keep size down but it was recommended to keep it at least twice the value of the output caps combined.
-
Yeah would be interesting to hear your thoughts on that, have been considering that along with the upgrade for the last cap in the psu. I read you can go a bit lower to keep size down but it was recommended to keep it at least twice the value of the output caps combined.
Evidently I'm still going to receive a whole bunch of tubes and toys to play with. I'll write something up after then.
-
^Sweet. Time to make more upgrades to my Crack!
-
TOCOS 10k
Just installed choke in PS. Interesting.
http://www.alliedelec.com/triad-magnetics-c-7x/70218148/
OJ, please shoot some pics over when you are done. I looked at my Crack and realized I did NOT attach the choke since it seemed too big to fit. Thanks. And the TOCOS is Cosmos TOCOS right?
-
Evidently I'm still going to receive a whole bunch of tubes and toys to play with. I'll write something up after then.
Good stuff, looking forward to seeing all those tricked out cracks popcorn
-
New toys for the Crack! NOS Philips 6080 tube (possibly a Mullard rebrand) + 6SN7 adapter from Garage1217 + some Slyvania tube I took from the MPX3.
Alright, so you guys know my tastes...any suggestions for warm, liquid/smooth, hopefully dynamic, spacious tubes? Some roll-off and politeness/softness on the top end is fine, probably even preferred. Both input and driver. So far, this combo is a step in the right direction for me, but I am curious what else is out there.
-
New toys for the Crack! NOS Philips 6080 tube (possibly a Mullard rebrand) + 6SN7 adapter from Garage1217 + some Slyvania tube I took from the MPX3.
Alright, so you guys know my tastes...any suggestions for warm, liquid/smooth, hopefully dynamic, spacious tubes? Some roll-off and politeness/softness on the top end is fine, probably even preferred. Both input and driver. So far, this combo is a step in the right direction for me, but I am curious what else is out there.
Let's see the underside matey
-
6SN7 adapter from Garage1217
That's really cool. Is any other modification needed to run 6SN7's with the crack, beyond using an adapter?
-
Not good quality pics, and insides are on the messier side of things, but I'd refer you to the posting I bought it from: http://www.head-fi.org/t/759373/barely-used-modded-bottlehead-crack-with-speedball-shipping-included-pictures-included
Can get better pics later. Too busy listening and don't wanna wait for it to cool.
As for the adapter, not sure...might need speedball upgrade? Couldn't tell ya.
-
Not good quality pics, and insides are on the messier side of things, but I'd refer you to the posting I bought it from: http://www.head-fi.org/t/759373/barely-used-modded-bottlehead-crack-with-speedball-shipping-included-pictures-included
Can get better pics later. Too busy listening and don't wanna wait for it to cool.
As for the adapter, not sure...might need speedball upgrade? Couldn't tell ya.
Try 5814
-
New toys for the Crack! NOS Philips 6080 tube (possibly a Mullard rebrand) + 6SN7 adapter from Garage1217 + some Slyvania tube I took from the MPX3.
Alright, so you guys know my tastes...any suggestions for warm, liquid/smooth, hopefully dynamic, spacious tubes? Some roll-off and politeness/softness on the top end is fine, probably even preferred. Both input and driver. So far, this combo is a step in the right direction for me, but I am curious what else is out there.
For 12au7, try a Blackburn Mullard. For 6SN7, a 1940s rca should be right up your alley.
Philips 6080 is already on the warmer and thicker side of things in 6as7 family though you might want to try a GEC 6080 which is more resolving and dynamic while still being on the warmer side of things.
-
Philips 6080 is already on the warmer and thicker side of things
I have one of those and that confirms what I thought
-
Alright, so you guys know my tastes...any suggestions for warm, liquid/smooth, hopefully dynamic, spacious tubes? Some roll-off and politeness/softness on the top end is fine, probably even preferred. Both input and driver. So far, this combo is a step in the right direction for me, but I am curious what else is out there.
Amperex bugle boy 12au7 would meet your needs nicely if you can find a decent deal on one. To a lesser degree, NOS Tung Sol 12au7's have a hint of warmth, are very pleasant on the ears and easily had for <$20.
-
Thanks or the suggestions, guys. Yeah, I picked up the Philips 6080 because, assuming it is a Mullard rebrand, I had heard they were on the warmer, thicker side of things. Kinda what I was looking for.
I've heard about the GEC tubes, but those seem like they're difficult to find, yeah?
Just remember that it might be difficult to find a tube, at least what I'm hearing with the Crack + speedball, that will be too warm, thick, or rolled for me. Y'all know I'm weird like that and am willing to sacrifice technicalities to get that tone and feel I want. Now, if I can get that warm, thick, slightly rolled sound coupled with spaciousness and strong technicalities...that's perfect, of course. Kinda hard to know what to get when some folks misinterpret resolving abilities and detail retrieval with some sort of accentuated or rough treble (talking about outside of the CS forums).
In other news, argh! My right channel started cutting out shortly after installing the 6SN7 adapter and tube. Fixes itself when I push on the top of the case. I'm guessing a loose or broken wire somewhere that needs to be resoldered. Will investigate more tonight.
-
Anybody with comments on the BH S.E.X?
-
Shit, I go poking around the Crack to see if I can find any loose connections that might have explained the right channel going out last night (which would come back if I pushed on various spots on the amp or tubes), and when I set it back up, I'm now getting a low-pitched, quiet hum. There regardless of tubes, volume, input connections, etc. Most likely scenario is that the connections need reflowed, but this thing looks like a PITA to work with given the speedball upgrade, huge caps, and given whoever built this did a sloppy job of it. Sweet! (Will pay good money if someone wants to take a look for me, seriously. I don't have much time for this.)
-
Post pics and maybe we can help doofus. Or maybe MisterRogers can save the day
-
I would start at the source/input and work your way forward. Ohm out the pot/grounds when the channel cuts out. Had a Crack here that would cut out and hum. Turned out to be a bad stock pot.
If you need someone to look at it, let me know.
-
So how much would tubes improve the midrange & bass of the HD800?
I have the stock Crack & stock tubes.
Sounds great, but midrange & bass are extremely veiled & thin compared to my LCD2.
What's the the most expensive tubes for the Crack that can bring the mids & bass forward.
-
So how much would tubes improve the midrange & bass of the HD800?
I have the stock Crack & stock tubes.
Sounds great, but midrange & bass are extremely veiled & thin compared to my LCD2.
What's the the most expensive tubes for the Crack that can bring the mids & bass forward.
Consider Speedball first
-
Hi Hans, someone earlier in the thread mentioned that switching between new tubes and NOS in the driver socket can cause problems with connection due to differences in pin thickness. Could you try moving the driver tube in the socket to see if the stock socket has some issues?
-
Yep and you should also do a grounding test: http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=4812.0 (http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=4812.0)
-
GE 5814 + TungSol 5998 seems to be the best match for HD800 so far. Keep in mind that this Crack has a bevvy of other mods and tweaks.
-
So how much would tubes improve the midrange & bass of the HD800?
I have the stock Crack & stock tubes.
Sounds great, but midrange & bass are extremely veiled & thin compared to my LCD2.
What's the the most expensive tubes for the Crack that can bring the mids & bass forward.
Why do you WANT them to be expensive? LOL
Maybe you mean the best?
Also, before you start tailoring your amp and DAC to the HD800's, you probably want to mod them first. Or use EQ. Unless you're dead-set on keeping the stock sound...
-
Unless you're deaf-set on keeping the stock sound...
-
Post pics and maybe we can help doofus. Or maybe MisterRogers can save the day
Yeah, will try to do that when I get back from the Big Sound event. Not sure how much you'll be able to tell given all the stuff in there and the messy wiring.
I would start at the source/input and work your way forward. Ohm out the pot/grounds when the channel cuts out. Had a Crack here that would cut out and hum. Turned out to be a bad stock pot. If you need someone to look at it, let me know.
Pot is a stepped one, says ELMA, IIRC. I might hit you up to take a look. Not sure I even have the knowledge in this realm to check what you suggested. Total noob at this area and slowly learning. Tough to learn when info out there assumes you already know what someone is talking about...
Hi Hans, someone earlier in the thread mentioned that switching between new tubes and NOS in the driver socket can cause problems with connection due to differences in pin thickness. Could you try moving the driver tube in the socket to see if the stock socket has some issues?
I suppose it's possible. I didn't start getting the channel cutout (fixed for now?) and hum issues until I tried the 6SN7 adapater and the different 6080 tube. My guess is the driver socket has only used NOS tubes, so maybe it's an issue with the input socket? The 6SN7 adapter does feel a bit loose in there, more so than the 12AU7 tube which is also a bit loose. Wiggling tubes around in the socket makes no change.
Yep and you should also do a grounding test: http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=4812.0 (http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=4812.0)
Again, might fall outside my horribly limited knowledge on this subject. I can slap things together with a noob-level picture guide, step-by-step, and know enough to solder basic jacks and such. The fact it isn't stock and wasn't built or modified by me makes that slightly more difficult as well.
Anyway, did want to say thanks to everyone offering advice! Will see what I can do.
GE 5814 + TungSol 5998 seems to be the best match for HD800 so far. Keep in mind that this Crack has a bevvy of other mods and tweaks.
Oh, nice, you have a 5998 tube? How does it sound? I commonly see that listed as the best driver tube for the Crack.
-
Oh, nice, you have a 5998 tube? How does it sound? I commonly see that listed as the best driver tube for the Crack.
Really? Good to know. It's better than both 6080's I have.
-
Really? Good to know. It's better than both 6080's I have.
Better how, exactly? I'm most curious about tone and liquidity/smoothness differences. Wondering if it would be my thing regardless of general technical improvements.
This is an interesting thread. Someone took some distortion and FR measurements with various tubes in the Crack: http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7853.0
Lots of people were saying the 5998 tubes were one of the best, if not the best, in the Crack. They are pretty hard to find these days and quite expensive.
-
Hands: the resistance check is not too hard to do, do you have access to the manual? Just give that read through and then you know which terminal is which etc.
About tubes i found the most difference switching driver tubes and not power tubes. I went a little nuts and bougt a 6as7g gec brown base and it was noticable but not as much as switching driver tubes.
-
Better how, exactly? I'm most curious about tone and liquidity/smoothness differences. Wondering if it would be my thing regardless of general technical improvements.
This is an interesting thread. Someone took some distortion and FR measurements with various tubes in the Crack: http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7853.0
Lots of people were saying the 5998 tubes were one of the best, if not the best, in the Crack. They are pretty hard to find these days and quite expensive.
In simple terms, I think the 5998 lets more of the recording/source through. You can take that for what you will Hans ;)
Lush and laid-back character doesn't go away regardless of tube rolling. 5814 might have slight amount of treble hardness actually. You can plug in dark, veiled-to-shit input tube if you want that to go away, but I'd keep the 5998 regardless. As soon as I get my hands one a wider selection of input tubes I can speak with more certainty.
-
Hands: the resistance check is not too hard to do, do you have access to the manual? Just give that read through and then you know which terminal is which etc.
Good call. Mine didn't come with one. Found a PDF copy, so maybe I can make good use of that. :)
In simple terms, I think the 5998 lets more of the recording/source through. You can take that for what you will Hans ;)
LOL, not much I can take from that. :P Relative comparisons to other tubes, gear, etc. is the best way for me to figure out how something might sound aside from hearing it myself. Let me know what you think once you get to try more tubes. I've done a decent amount of tube comparison reading already, but am just curious to hear your own thoughts!
-
Good Hans luck i'm sure we or otherwise the guys over at the bh forums can sort it out!
-
Crack on sale :)p7 Speedball upgrade only $20 till the 18th headbang
http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=8368.0
-
(http://i.imgur.com/sfpZrCR.jpg)
So I did some sanding and finishing. I've also got a Valab stepped attenuator in there now. Will update on new input tubes later tonight :)p5
-
So I did some sanding and finishing. I've also got a Valab stepped attenuator in there now. Will update on new input tubes later tonight :)p5
Very nice!