CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Amp and DAC Measurements => Topic started by: ultrabike on July 17, 2015, 08:16:09 AM
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Well, this was gonna happen. Folks started to ask questions about power out and stuff and I had to measure it.
--- Practical Versatility ---
This is a fairly well put together (SQ-wise) little and VERY practical gadget. I find it very enjoyable with my HD600 out of the unbalanced out and at the usual 44.1k PCM setting. But that's not where the fun ends. This thing can do DSD, DXD and 192kHz... and perhaps 352.8 kHz and 384 kHz. I was able to verify 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz and 192 kHz with REW through ASIO. This is the only such device I have that can do uber rates and all kinds of flavors of DSD.
Furthermore, this is the only head-amp that can gimme balanced out. Which means that if I ever go balanced to feel special, I'm covered.
--- What I no-likey ---
Now lets get this out of the way. I do not like the chassis. The artistic design is more than fine. But I would have preferred the aluminum + little USB cable solution offered with the original Geek Out. And it does indeed fall off as the device heats up.
But hey! It's an improvement opportunity. It would be kool if LH offered aluminum skins for your Geek... Just saying... If you like the Hugo looks, you might be able to Huglyfy your Geek! You might Tobleronify it if you crave that Pono looks.
--- Frequency Response ---
Good ol flatitude down to the bass regions even with a 33 ohm load. And as far as the tremble you now have options. Extended awesomeness with TCM (blue pill) and slow roll off with FRM (green pill). The TCM seems to be a minimum phase filter. I prefer linear phase filters, but subjectively the options don't bother me.
Frequency Response TCM (33 ohm @ 44.1kHz)
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2601.0;attach=10379;image)
Frequency Response FRM (33 ohm @ 44.1 kHz)
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2601.0;attach=10381;image)
At 192 kHz it may not matter much as we get a FR ruler past what the Focusrite (96kHz) can detect.
Frequency Response TCM (300 ohm @ 192 kHz)
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2601.0;attach=10383;image)
--- THD 1kHz ---
At 300 ohms and 0.4 Vrms (about -15dBFS) and using high gain the Geek behaves like a boss with about 0.0098% distortion and negligible higher order harmonics. Now you can give the finger to your crappy computer interface with confidence.
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2601.0;attach=10385;image)
At 33 ohms and 0.4 Vrms distortion rises to 0.0109% which means that you can still curse at your PC or laptop funky soundcard happily.
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2601.0;attach=10387;image)
--- Output Impedance ----
Even at high gain I measured less than 0.51 ohms. The Geek is supposed to use a TPA6120A2, so maybe they used a ferrite or some other kind of magic cuz high impedance is not a problem.
--- Maximum Output ---
The V2 is able to provide about 2.2 Vrms in unbalanced and likely 4.2 Vrms balanced. Power is limited by the load and whatever current your USB port can supply. This should be more than enough for most cans in the market... But no. It will not replace your 60 Ibs Krell feet warmer.
--- IMD ---
SMPTE gives up a respectable ~0.0224% into 300 ohms at 0.4 Vrms ~0.0215% into 33 ohms. It seems that the more difficult 33 ohm load is doing better, but that's just the measurement being a little misleading IMO, cuz THD at 60 Hz harmonics does increase for the 33 ohm vs the 300 ohm. It's just that this test only looks at IMD distortion around the 7 kHz tone.
SMPTE IMD (300 ohm)
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2601.0;attach=10389;image)
SMPTE IMD (33 ohm)
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2601.0;attach=10391;image)
So. Are we concerned about stability cuz it's using the TPA6120A2 and the output impedance is kinda low? Well, CCIF is not a tell all and my 2i2 can only go to 96 kHz sampling, but upto that range, things look good IMO with 33 ohms:
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2601.0;attach=10393;image)
--- Jitter & Noise ---
Looking at the distortion plots, I didn't see any considerable widening of the fundamental, so my guess is that jitter is fairly well controlled. Noise on my interface goes down to about -130 dBFs so this device is doing better. I might be able to get lower noise floor on my 2i2, but I don't want to mock around with the line-in levels. Let's just say that this device is not noisy at all.
--- Summary ---
This is an awesome device. I think the MSRP is $299. Well, an ODAC + O2 combo is about $280. Sure, it's got more voltage swing. But can it do all the crazy data rates? No. Can I run it from my USB port with no wall wart? No. Can I fit it in my pocket? No. Can it do balanced? No. Does the ODAC + O2 dull & DIY-like chassis fall apart and look rugged around the edges? No (skins please?).
So there you go. I like this little stuffs. It sounds good and I can just hook it up an be happy.
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hm concerns are starting to come out with regards to the chassi's build quality...
Did I make a good choice opting for the V2+... :(
At around 320 dollars (shipping included) hope it is not as clumsily made as it sounds from a chassi point of view...
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@ Ultrabike You can check DSD x1, x2, x4 and DXD with free files from 2L http://www.2l.no/hires/ (http://www.2l.no/hires/)
All 2L tracks have been recorded with the Merging Pyramix system in 24/352.8 DXD and then converted to the various formats.
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Larry Ho will love these graphs.
Hopefully my GOV2+Infinity arrives before the weekend! headbang
balanced IEM cable and balanced 3.5mm adapter for HD800 sitting here ready to roll....
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Thats respectable performance for a device of its kind, wonder how it performs in standalone DAC testing.
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Well, this was gonna happen. Folks started to ask questions about power out and stu
This is an awesome device. I think the MSRP is $299. Well, an ODAC + O2 combo is about $280. Sure, it's got more voltage swing. But can it do all the crazy data rates? No. Can I run it from my USB port with no wall wart? No. Can I fit it in my pocket? No. Can it do balanced? No. Does the ODAC + O2 dull & DIY-like chassis fall apart and look rugged around the edges? No (skins please?).
So there you go. I like this little stuffs. It sounds good and I can just hook it up an be happy.
So the sound is more or equal to the O2/ODAC with slightly less power, but the benefits of a portable?
No unique sound signature to differentiate itself?
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Thanks for your efforts. Looks like a compelling solution for the size/price.
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No unique sound signature to differentiate itself?
Everything has a sound signature. One thing I've noted in this hobby is that the words "wire with gain" is a big red flag.
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All 2L tracks have been recorded with the Merging Pyramix system in 24/352.8 DXD and then converted to the various formats.
I fucking thought so. When I mentioned I thought their 192khz tracks sounded worse, someone said those were the original recordings.
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So the sound is more or equal to the O2/ODAC with slightly less power, but the benefits of a portable?
No unique sound signature to differentiate itself?
All 2L tracks have been recorded with the Merging Pyramix system in 24/352.8 DXD and then converted to the various formats.
I fucking thought so. When I mentioned I thought their 192khz tracks sounded worse, someone said those were the original recordings.
So the sound is more or equal to the O2/ODAC with slightly less power, but the benefits of a portable?
No unique sound signature to differentiate itself?
It distinguishes itself by being less harsh and grainy and more resolving and dynamic than an ODAC. That's why I've been trying to sell my PoS ODAC that was my portable reference DAC for almost 2 years. You're more than welcome to buy it for less than MSRP if you find them indistinguishable.
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hm concerns are starting to come out with regards to the chassi's build quality...
Did I make a good choice opting for the V2+... :(
At around 320 dollars (shipping included) hope it is not as clumsily made as it sounds from a chassi point of view...
IMO it sounds great. SQ-wise this is not shit.
@ Ultrabike You can check DSD x1, x2, x4 and DXD with free files from 2L http://www.2l.no/hires/ (http://www.2l.no/hires/)
All 2L tracks have been recorded with the Merging Pyramix system in 24/352.8 DXD and then converted to the various formats.
Will do later tonite. Thanks mate!
Larry Ho will love these graphs.
Hopefully my GOV2+Infinity arrives before the weekend! headbang
balanced IEM cable and balanced 3.5mm adapter for HD800 sitting here ready to roll....
Please provide your impressions of balanced vs unbalanced.
Thats respectable performance for a device of its kind, wonder how it performs in standalone DAC testing.
Proly a very decent DAC on its own right, with quite a bit of data rate and format support.
So the sound is more or equal to the O2/ODAC with slightly less power, but the benefits of a portable?
No unique sound signature to differentiate itself?
I don't have an ODAC to compare. But I can say the Geek V2 pairs well with my HD600 and I get quite a bit of resolution out of it.
Thanks for your efforts. Looks like a compelling solution for the size/price.
If you are looking for something practical that just plugs to your laptop on the go w/o the need of a wall wart, it is a very good solution indeed. Not a lot of options out there in its class that offer balanced outputs, DSD/DXD and high rate PCM, class A amplification w half decent output power that still manage to fit in the palm of your hand.
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you can borrow my odac if curious
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Please provide your impressions of balanced vs unbalanced.
won't be able to do so with HD800 for a variety of reasons:
1. GOV2+Infinity delayed a week due to 3D print case issue.
2. the HD800 cable I have is balanced XLR, and I only have an adapter to 3.5 TRRS. not single.
i could check out Balanced vs. not with my IEMs tho... more then!
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you can borrow my odac if curious
Will do proly next week. Thanks mate!
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I fucking thought so. When I mentioned I thought their 192khz tracks sounded worse, someone said those were the original recordings.
As always the original master file is the best and 2L works on DXD. I prefer an OMF even if 24/44.1 or 24/48 to an upsampled 24/192 or converted PCM>DSD. Even worst I see no reason in buying digitally mastered and recorded LPs. Very few actually record on DSD (Grimm has a nice ADC for x1 DSD), most would go for PCM (24/96 or 24/192) and then mess up with the market by selling just about every possible format..
2L is among those few that will sell you the original DXD and on a proper system those files are amazing. For serious DSD testing do try the native DSD files https://www.nativedsd.com/
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Happy to report that Geek V2 plays DSD and DXD through Foobar w/o issues. Files provided Pancakes are awesome!!!
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Can I run it from my USB port with no wall wart? No.
I can run the ODAC and O2 with just a USB port without a wall wart. : p
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I can run the ODAC and O2 with just a USB port without a wall wart. : p
You should then start a thread and get busy providing details about how to go about it :)
Folks around here perhaps have made it a slightly better product by giving it a better power supply (DIY stuff).
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Hmmm... AFAIK the ODAC is USB powered and the O2 has (rechargeable) batteries so you can plug the lot in an USB port and have sound without needing external power.
Great set of measurements..
Thanks UB, was curious about it.
I do wonder about one thing though but think it can easily be explained though.
AFAIK there is a 'direct link' to LH so I will pose the question here as UB mentioned what is sortof a question mark for me.
The TPA6120 is a class AB amplifier.
It is mentioned that it is a class-A which could be possible by adding a current source from the output to the positive or negative rail forcing the TPA6120 opamp's output stage to work on output device only sinking into the current source.
As the output voltage isn't very high (in this case by a limited power supply voltage and the output current capabilities of the TPA are 0.7A/ch it would be easy to bias/load the outputs with say 0.2A so you can have the output in class-A even with 16 Ohm HP attached at max output voltage swing.
I simply wondered if that's how they set the TPA in class-A ?
Would generate a lot of heat though.
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That's a good point. If the ODAC/O2 is operated through 9V batteries I guess you could go w/o the wall wart. Dunno if it would measure as well as w the wall wart though.
I'm also not sure how LH forced the TPA6120 into class A, but the Geek does get hot.
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That's a good point. If the ODAC/O2 is operated through 9V batteries I guess you could go w/o the wall wart. Dunno if it would measure as well as w the wall wart though.
Still I agree the v2 seems the better choice here.
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Using the same set-up as Ultra...GOV2 unbalanced out to the HD 600....the little sucker performs better as it gets warmer...did not detect any noise during my sessions.... sounded a lot less grainy than the GOV1700, a much fuller soundstage with much more resolution..and no need to that mini-USB cable.
The only irritant thus far is the device does not tolerate too much movement of the laptop...I have to move in slow motion to adjust positions from time to time.
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Looks like LH Labs 3D cases are back in production,
Received shipping notice for GOV2+Infinity !
Hopefully arrival by mid week. Haven't heard any GOV2 yet so this will be a treat.
:)p6
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Looks like LH Labs 3D cases are back in production,
Received shipping notice for GOV2+Infinity !
Hopefully arrival by mid week. Haven't heard any GOV2 yet so this will be a treat.
:)p6
Yep! Heard word that some normal V2+'s are shipping as well. (Haven't gotten word on mine yet though. Soon enough I'm sure.)
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Using the same set-up as Ultra...GOV2 unbalanced out to the HD 600....the little sucker performs better as it gets warmer...did not detect any noise during my sessions.... sounded a lot less grainy than the GOV1700, a much fuller soundstage with much more resolution..and no need to that mini-USB cable.
The only irritant thus far is the device does not tolerate too much movement of the laptop...I have to move in slow motion to adjust positions from time to time.
Super weird. What laptop? I have some issues with my macbook pro but my XPS 13 has a super secure USB port.
I am using a mediabridge 6" USB extender.
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ZD, my PoS MBA laptop. The USB port on the left has failed twice in 2 years.
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Use an extender. My macs have always had looser USB ports. Rock fucking solid on the Dell though
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Just ordered a couple. Thanks.
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Looks like LH Labs 3D cases are back in production,
Received shipping notice for GOV2+Infinity !
Hopefully arrival by mid week. Haven't heard any GOV2 yet so this will be a treat.
:)p6
Holy sh!tballs, great news! :boom:
Waiting on an Infinity too...
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waiting for the v2+
hope they'll keep us posted.... :)p8
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Just ordered a couple of single-ended to balanced adapters from Mimic Cables so I can use all of my 3.5mm and 1/4" (6.25mm) plugs with the V2+ Balanced output. Link (http://www.mimic-cables.com/products/akg-3pin-mini-xlr-to-stereo-3-5mm-adapter)
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Looks like LH Labs 3D cases are back in production,
According to LH Labs, as of Friday, the GOV2 chassis hadn't been finalized, but I imagine it's a different situation with the V2+.
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Just ordered a couple of single-ended to balanced adapters from Mimic Cables so I can use all of my 3.5mm and 1/4" (6.25mm) plugs with the V2+ Balanced output. Link (http://www.mimic-cables.com/products/akg-3pin-mini-xlr-to-stereo-3-5mm-adapter)
CT, for the V2 this would be a TRRS male to xlr female right ? What I mean is that would this adapter have a TRRS (3.5 mm) male that would go into the V2 and at the other end it would have a XLR female to plug the HP cables into ? Thanks
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kothganesh yes, that's what you'd want to use a 4pin xlr headphone cable with the geek out v2 balanced output.. but he said he's going to use his single ended headphones with teh balanced output, I think he just wants the extra power from the port not the balanced benefits.. he said he's getting a 6.3mm and 3.5mm adapter.
I have a usb cable I got from mimic and the sleeve came loose.. and my friend also got a usb cable from mimic that had issues.. so I Might try a chinese seller adapter instead.. I had these two bookmarked. But as you know, I eventually decided to just get a 3.5mm trrs male to hifiman connector headphone cable instead. the kothganesh approved 8 conductor copper cable :P that one is getting delivered on august 28. hopefully my gov2 is here by then
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00X2Q2SXG/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1DVGMGCAR72T0&coliid=I2GQJFRNMJ0TA4
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251992929864?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&var=550857724497&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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Is there any issue with plugging a pair of LCD-2 (rev 2 without Fazor) into the single ended output on the low gain setting?
The volume is enough for me, it'd sitting on -14 dB for casual listening, -7/5 dB when I want more impact or for tracks that were mastered more quietly. I don't think I've heard any distortion or lack of power.
I just don;t like electronics running hot. :D
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hope massdrop will have it soon.
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Uncola, great minds think alike. I ordered the same adapter cable from Amazon today. Almost bought from MIC but did not pull the plug. Thanks man.
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Ah! Thanks for the link. I find searching for these kind of things difficult as amazon/google tend to provide microphone only results.
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Oh, I grabbed one of those from Amazon too. Mimic has not shipped or updated me on my adapter order yet. Now I will have 3 types.
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If anyone has a good lead on an RSA/ALO/Kobiconn Male to 3.5mm TRRS, I'd appreciate a pass-along. Likely going to be pairing my GO V2+ with a ALO RX MKIII and that interconnect would be needed to connect V2+ balanced out to MKIII balanced in.
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If anyone has a good lead on an RSA/ALO/Kobiconn Male to 3.5mm TRRS, I'd appreciate a pass-along. Likely going to be pairing my GO V2+ with a ALO RX MKIII and that interconnect would be needed to connect V2+ balanced out to MKIII balanced in.
Working on something for your request.
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Working on something for your request.
headbang