CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Head Amps, DACs, Sources, Portable Equipment Discussion => Topic started by: jer on September 04, 2015, 12:33:39 AM
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They've got a Headphone Amp, stereo & monoblock loudspeaker amps, tubes, solid-state goodies, a Labor Day Weekend Sale, and more... Check it out here (http://igg.me/at/pulseaudio/)!
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Whatever happened to Geek Wave, Vi Dac... no thanks. :)p8
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:)p13
This company is such a joke.
Please Larry, leave and go somewhere else where your talents can be put to use.
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Not sure what is the catch with getting the LH hybrid balanced tube amp for 769 USD ETA (maybe) January 2016 vs just getting a Shiit MoJo now - they look very similar on paper, not that I am going to get either any time soon. As a separate pondering - how is LH going to justify pricing this amp at 1500 USD commercially with the MoJo around? In the end not my problem, do not care, I have been cured of crowdfunding fever. Hallelujah! Looking forward for opinions from takers. popcorn
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Not sure what is the catch with getting the LH hybrid balanced tube amp for 769 USD ETA (maybe) January 2019 vs just getting a Shiit MoJo now - they look very similar on paper, not that I am going to get either any time soon. As a separate pondering - how is LH going to justify pricing this amp at 1500 USD commercially with the MoJo around? In the end not my problem, do not care, I have been cured of crowdfunding fever. Hallelujah! Looking forward for opinions from takers. popcorn
fixed :)p1
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Whatever happened to Geek Wave, Vi Dac... no thanks. :)p8
As I understand it, Wave and Vi were always queued in the pipeline after Pulse. They just finished shipping out all the Pulses recently, so they're moving on to the next things. The company only has ~42 people in it (up from 2 a few years ago), so they're probably working as fast as they can. ;)
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They just finished shipping out all the Pulses recently, so they're moving on to the next things.
I'll believe that after I get at least an email with a tracking number on it for my Pulse. LHLabs gets no benefit of doubt due to the way they run their business. I still remember 4 months ago, they had on their website that the batch 1 Pulse was 100% delivered, which was a total lie since I was in that batch and so far have not heard a whiff about mine.
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Crowdfunding again?
Hardly a startup... didn't make enough from from previous products to finance new ones? Doesn't look good.
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:)
Crowdfunding is not "just for startups" as you suppose. If you go study the space for a while and you'll realize that there are many reasons to crowdfund. Starting up a business is one such reason, but there are many others and they are all valid.
Perhaps the most important angle to consider is the big picture of, "Where does the money come from?"
In this day and age, as a young company (< ~5yo) that wants to design & manufacture a product for sale, you really have three options (unless you're independently wealthy and feel like staking vast sums of your own money):
1. Take out a loan (incurring massive debt and interest payments) to fund the development of a product that you hope, but are not certain, people will buy.
2. Get angel or other capital investors to front massive stake in your company because they believe in your vision... but you give them large portions of your company in return.
3. Tell the customer what you're planning on doing and offer a pre-sale of the items (now via a crowdfunding site, but before such things, you just offered a "pre-order" in your online or physical store).
If you don't want to saddle your company with debt up to its eyeballs (#1) and you don't want to give partial ownership of your company to third parties (#2), there's only one viable option left.
This is why so many companies that start out crowdfunding and make successful products will often keep crowdfunding. It's not that they couldn't try to pay for R&D themselves once their first product is selling, but that it makes good business sense. You don't have to guess at customer demand. You don't have to wait to find out what they like and don't like about your product. You get a constant dialog with them about what they want and why, and you get them to put their money where their mouth is up front. Yes, they wait a long time (something they're not used to because most people have zero idea how long it takes to research, develop, produce, and test a marketable product), they lose patience, and they will grouse when you're late for the third, sixth, and twelfth time... but if you do your job well the quality of your offering will more than make up for it and they will come back for more because you make quality products. Their friends who didn't join them in the crowdfund will then wish they had because, "Oh wow, you got that $xxxx thing that I'm entranced by for half price (or less)?! That's amazing!" kicks in soon after the product hits the street.
Why would you, as a company, want to jump out of Option 3 Land when you've seen how great it is? Option 2 sucks unless you find the perfect partner(s), and the "hoping customers will like it" risk from Option 1 is where you end up whether or not you take Option 2 or just go for the bank loan. *Everybody* is at risk in Options 1 and 2.
Truth be told, the margins on the vast majority of crowdfunding efforts are scant -- people rightly expect to get their perks for pennies because they're taking a risk on you and they expect some reward for that, so you're stuck more or less "giving away" your goods for very close to the actual cost of parts, design, & production (in some cases less, some cases a tad more, but it's NOT really a profit center).
I can't tell you how many crowdfunders fail to deliver because they don't account for the hidden costs and then have to send out letters that say, "Well, we really wanted to send you all the poster and the t-shirt in addition to our widget, but the money just isn't there. Oh, btw, the company is now down to just one person, me, and i'm broke. enjoy the widgets. Sorry about the rest..." This is very common in the video and tabletop game spaces. It's always a sad day for me (I wanted that t-shirt!) and for them (they wanted their dream to become reality).
My big lament is that I run a retail operation. Crowdfunding is largely for product producers, not product resellers. I'd *love* to crowdfund my operation (get other people to help me build a storefront, offer them "perks" for doing so), but I can't find a way to do it that makes any sense from a customer perspective, so I'm stuck in the realm of Option 1 or Option 2. Both suck.
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Maybe they should sell those awful 3D printers to get a bit more liquid capital.
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As a PE investor, largely agree with Jer. Bank funding and/or angel/PE investing can be very onerous. If the track record is scant, then it's even worse. Crowd funding is essentially angel investing on a larger scale and lends itself to the kind of things that LH is doing/trying to do. I am inundated with such requests especially on the tech side these days. Consumer product ideas, if articulated well, have a greater likelihood of successful funding. BUT, there has got to be a finite horizon in terms of complete product design. That's where LH fell short at least on the products thus far. Having said that, I have got 4-5 products from them and they all work very well. Waiting for that (tidal) Wave :))
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Thanks, kothganesh. :)p6
I'm also waiting on a few projects from them to complete (Wave, Vi).
In crowdfunding, as with anything, patience is a virtue. Other more established companies that can & will offer a lot of competing "bang for the buck," but I personally like Larry's attention to (technical and musical) detail and relentless pursuit of audio perfection. I also like that they're willing to try something new. I'm a "buck the trend / fight the system" kind of guy myself. I like doing things differently, so I appreciate that Larry & company are doing things differently.
As a consumer, I feel humbled and honored that they've parted "the veil" and invited us into the (virtual) design room with them. That's a hugely different way of operating than the industry has heretofore known. It's messy and at times frustrating, but man, that's awesome!
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There's plenty of good ready to be sold audio equipment out there that don't require crowdfunding or preorders. Schiit audio for example, why risk your time and patience on a company who frequently(yes, Schiit also has issues but not as bad) misses their own estimated deadlines. Also they do employ a lot of censorship on their Indiegogo page and forums.
Caveat emptor.
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There's plenty of good ready to be sold audio equipment out there that don't require crowdfunding or preorders. Schiit audio for example, why risk your time and patience on a company who frequently(yes, Schiit also has issues but not as bad) misses their own estimated deadlines. Also they do employ a lot of censorship on their Indiegogo page and forums.
Caveat emptor.
Well, the Fulla is good but it's no Geek Out.If anyone in the audio universe makes a better sounding portable USB DAC/Stick thingy let me know.
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jer, and kothganesh... I can see advantages from the company side: get investment without selling shares!
It continues to be a business model that does not appeal to me, except, perhaps, for getting something made and available that is really really new, and really impossible to fund in any other way. I don't know, but I suspect that this is what got crowdfunding started, with the financing of real innovation.
That an established audio company needs to crowdfund its next models seems pretty strange to me.
None of this means that I might not, one day soon, end up with one of their products! I'm going to hear one this coming weekend.
But this is a relatively low-cost item. Whereas I have confidence that a company with a model like Schiit is going to be around, and I do not have confidence in the one-crowd-fund-after-another shows. But hey, perhaps they do have capital and are using it for something else.
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People often mock that which they do not understand. :)
Bad assumption there, bucko.
Most, if not all of us, understand perfectly well how the crowdfunding business model is supposed to work. We mock LH Labs because they suck at it. The only charitable spin that can be put on it is that they outgrew their infrastructure and waited too long to scale up. There is NO excuse for the kind of poor customer service that they have become notorious for, and even if they objectively get better at it the damage to their reputation is probably irreparable.
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jer, and kothganesh... I can see advantages from the company side: get investment without selling shares!
It continues to be a business model that does not appeal to me, except, perhaps, for getting something made and available that is really really new, and really impossible to fund in any other way. I don't know, but I suspect that this is what got crowdfunding started, with the financing of real innovation.
That an established audio company needs to crowdfund its next models seems pretty strange to me.
That's a fair observation (origins of crowdfunding) and an equally fair point of interest (do they need to crowdfund anymore?).
"Established" is a great choice of words. The dictionary defines it as "having been in existence for a long time and therefore recognized and generally accepted." I'm not sure I'd call LHLabs an "established" company quite yet - they're in the process of becoming one, though. When I think of an "established" company, I picture a company that has a long history, a series of well-regarded products released and in the hands of a great number of consumers. I think of a company that, by all appearances, has a solid financial footing with reasonable cash reserves. A company that can pay its basic operational and facilities costs, make infrastructure investments and upkeep, fund future product research & development, and is growing steadily. All this requires not only money in the bank, but a regular influx of revenue from product sales (or investors) that can meet or exceeds the demand placed on the company by all of those things.
In truth, it's hard to accuse any company that is less than 5 years old of truly being "established", barring a few rare exceptions. Light Harmonic (LHLabs parent company) was itself only founded in November of 2010 (it will be a couple of more months before even the parent company hits 5 years!) and it was just two people - Larry and Gavin. They had two products, a ~$26,000+ DAC called Da Vinci (so, not a ton of consumer demand there... but Larry was out to prove a point: high resolution matters) and a $1,000 USB cable called Lightspeed which most people scoffed at (until they heard the difference it could make for themselves).
Almost 2 years later, in August of 2013, they started a Kickstarter campaign for another product, the GEEK (this would become the 'Geek Out'). It set records by exceeding its $28,000 funding goal in just 10.5 hours, with a final tally of $303,061 from 2,146 backers. In 2013 they also founded LH Labs to encompass their new line of crowdfunded and crowd-designed products.
It's worth pointing out that most "startups" aren't profitable for at least 3-5 years, and some take much longer than that. Expenses usually exceed income by a long-shot. If they're well-managed, they *might* break even, but then they're probably losing money on product returns or just lack of good old fashioned sales. By way of example, Amazon.com was founded in July of 1994. Jeff Bezos didn't post his first profitable year (http://www.computerworld.com/article/2575106/amazon-records-first-profitable-year-in-its-history.html) until 2003! One could argue that they were an "established" company even without being profitable, but it wasn't until the very late 90s that people had any degree of faith that truly "established" booksellers like Barnes & Noble and Borders weren't going to eat them for lunch!
Bearing all that in mind, the question you've posed remains: Does LHLabs "need" to crowdfund anymore?
I think they do. They've staked their business model (at least where R&D is concerned) on not only crowdfunding, but crowd-designing. When they're established (and have a steady stream of income from retail sales -- something they are just now starting to be able to develop with a few products like Geek Out and Pulse to offer) I think they can choose to ease-up on the crowdfunding and focus more on the "crowd designing".
To hear Gavin and Larry talk about it, "crowd design" is part of their company's DNA. It's democratizing the development of the next generation of playback devices. It gets them jazzed and fuels their passion for bringing hi-fi to the masses. Even if they do stop the crowd "funding", I'm pretty sure the crowd "designing" is here to stay. Personally, I like that. I like having a seat at the table during the design phase. Others don't care to, preferring to leave such decisions to the engineers and designers, and I respect that.
ahoy
None of this means that I might not, one day soon, end up with one of their products! I'm going to hear one this coming weekend. But this is a relatively low-cost item.
I hope you enjoy it, Thad! I have friends who rave about their LHLabs gear, and I have friends who don't care for it, mostly because they aren't a fan of the SABRE chips that Larry is basing his current crop of products around. To each their own! headbang
Whereas I have confidence that a company with a model like Schiit is going to be around, and I do not have confidence in the one-crowd-fund-after-another shows. But hey, perhaps they do have capital and are using it for something else.
That's a fair concern and when it comes to company futures, nothing is ever guaranteed. I like Schiit's model, too (to some extent -- being a direct-to-consumer brand, they don't support independent dealers like me, but I respect what they're reaching for and I love celebrating others' success!). I love that they use local labor and make things as simple as possible while maintaining a dash of good design aesthetic (but not so much as to drive the price up).
And they certainly have a sense of humor.
:)p13
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Have you always been this long winded and obnoxious, or did you save it up for when you joined Chang? Seriously, go fuck yourself. What kind of person joins a forum and, before getting the lay of the land, posts smarmy bullshit like this: "People often mock that which they do not understand."
You've literally come in here and trivialized legitimate concerns people have. I am quite close to the guys at LH, but to act like people's frustrations are trivial is incredibly small minded of you. Jesus, get over yourself.
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Hi Gavin :)
That's a fair observation (origins of crowdfunding) and an equally fair point of interest (do they need to crowdfund anymore?).
"Established" is a great choice of words. The dictionary defines it as "having been in existence for a long time and therefore recognized and generally accepted." I'm not sure I'd call LHLabs an "established" company quite yet - they're in the process of becoming one, though. When I think of an "established" company, I picture a company that has a long history, a series of well-regarded products released and in the hands of a great number of consumers. I think of a company that, by all appearances, has a solid financial footing with reasonable cash reserves. A company that can pay its basic operational and facilities costs, make infrastructure investments and upkeep, fund future product research & development, and is growing steadily. All this requires not only money in the bank, but a regular influx of revenue from product sales (or investors) that can meet or exceeds the demand placed on the company by all of those things.
In truth, it's hard to accuse any company that is less than 5 years old of truly being "established", barring a few rare exceptions. Light Harmonic (LHLabs parent company) was itself only founded in November of 2010 (it will be a couple of more months before even the parent company hits 5 years!) and it was just two people - Larry and Gavin. They had two products, a ~$26,000+ DAC called Da Vinci (so, not a ton of consumer demand there... but Larry was out to prove a point: high resolution matters) and a $1,000 USB cable called Lightspeed which most people scoffed at (until they heard the difference it could make for themselves).
Almost 2 years later, in August of 2013, they started a Kickstarter campaign for another product, the GEEK (this would become the 'Geek Out'). It set records by exceeding its $28,000 funding goal in just 10.5 hours, with a final tally of $303,061 from 2,146 backers. In 2013 they also founded LH Labs to encompass their new line of crowdfunded and crowd-designed products.
It's worth pointing out that most "startups" aren't profitable for at least 3-5 years, and some take much longer than that. Expenses usually exceed income by a long-shot. If they're well-managed, they *might* break even, but then they're probably losing money on product returns or just lack of good old fashioned sales. By way of example, Amazon.com was founded in July of 1994. Jeff Bezos didn't post his first profitable year (http://www.computerworld.com/article/2575106/amazon-records-first-profitable-year-in-its-history.html) until 2003! One could argue that they were an "established" company even without being profitable, but it wasn't until the very late 90s that people had any degree of faith that truly "established" booksellers like Barnes & Noble and Borders weren't going to eat them for lunch!
Bearing all that in mind, the question you've posed remains: Does LHLabs "need" to crowdfund anymore?
I think they do. They've staked their business model (at least where R&D is concerned) on not only crowdfunding, but crowd-designing. When they're established (and have a steady stream of income from retail sales -- something they are just now starting to be able to develop with a few products like Geek Out and Pulse to offer) I think they can choose to ease-up on the crowdfunding and focus more on the "crowd designing".
To hear Gavin and Larry talk about it, "crowd design" is part of their company's DNA. It's democratizing the development of the next generation of playback devices. It gets them jazzed and fuels their passion for bringing hi-fi to the masses. Even if they do stop the crowd "funding", I'm pretty sure the crowd "designing" is here to stay. Personally, I like that. I like having a seat at the table during the design phase. Others don't care to, preferring to leave such decisions to the engineers and designers, and I respect that.
ahoy
I hope you enjoy it, Thad! I have friends who rave about their LHLabs gear, and I have friends who don't care for it, mostly because they aren't a fan of the SABRE chips that Larry is basing his current crop of products around. To each their own! headbang
That's a fair concern and when it comes to company futures, nothing is ever guaranteed. I like Schiit's model, too (to some extent -- being a direct-to-consumer brand, they don't support independent dealers like me, but I respect what they're reaching for and I love celebrating others' success!). I love that they use local labor and make things as simple as possible while maintaining a dash of good design aesthetic (but not so much as to drive the price up).
And they certainly have a sense of humor.
:)p13
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You've literally come in here and trivialized legitimate concerns people have ... I am quite close to the guys at LH, but to act like people's frustrations are trivial is incredibly small minded of you.
If that's the way I've come across, I'm certainly very sorry. :-[ :(
If my earlier tongue-in-cheek comment about people mocking that which is misunderstood was out of place or in any way disrespectful, I humbly apologize. That wasn't my intent. I was kidding around (hence the smily...) and thought that offering another perspective on why businesses choose to crowdfund would be helpful (I seldom see that side of it discussed).
Yes, I am new around here. From what I had read (and yes, I did read quite a few threads before posting) it seemed there was a light-hearted and often snarky attitude in the wind. Generally, I like that, as long as people keep it civil. I was just trying to fit into the flow and keep things fun.
Apparently, I played my hand wrong and ruffled some feathers, so I say this with all sincerity: I meant no dishonor nor disrespect towards anyone here or towards Chang.
As for the concerns people raised or alluded to -- I fully acknowledge that LHLabs has had serious customer service issues since its inception. I also know they're working hard to fix it and have a team focused full-time on it. Since you know them, you also know this is true; however, I'm afraid that apart from encouraging (and sometimes helping) people to get resolution for their issues directly from LH Labs, there is little else I can do about someone else's customer service complaints.
When I see an actual need expressed (and not just generalized grousing), I always do whatever I can to help.
walk the plank2
^ yeah, the blue guy is me.
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Well, people do often mock what they don't understand, and with the reservation that, unless it is in response to specific content, the limits of a person's understanding are not known, I didn't take offence at that. A certain amount of irreverence, if not obnoxiousness, and occasional arse-holery does seems accepted as part of the Pyrate ethos. But hey, I'm fairly new here too.
jer's latest post seems well reasoned. How, jer, would you rate Schiit on the "establishment" scale? I'd call them established. I'd say they became established quite quickly. They don't need to crowdfund their new models; they don't need pre-orders to make them.
As far as Schiit is concerned, I read the book. As far as LH is concerned, I admit to knowing very little. Of course, $1,000-dollar USB cables is a big turn off as far as I'm concerned, so that bias has to be admitted too. $1,000-dollar USB cables turn me off almost as much as $1,000 ethernet cables. When I see expensive "audiophile" ethernet cables, I just remove that company from my trust list. USB is a little more uncertain for me. For those who disagree on this, fine, we disagree ...and this isn't a cable thread.
It's a fine line, and hard to say where marketing turns me on and when it turns me off. Crowd design is partly marketing. I have never minded the questions from Schiit as to what people want, nor the hints that leads to a guessing game that makes sure that people stay on board and stay interested. The tamasha from ifi, on the other hand (and I noticed they are starting another one), put me off the company entirely. I'm sorry I ever bought their iCAN. (Whether or not it is a good hp amp is another question. Hey, it was/is my first hp amp). It's ironic (and a bit sad for me) that I love the way Schiit have built their business, but I can't get on with the specific product I've been trying out (that, too, is another story).
I'm British, and a little bit old. I do think this means that I have a much lower tolerance for brash marketing. It's part of my opinion-forming make-up. It's part of where I'm coming from.
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Thank you, Thad. (And thank you again for not taking offense to my poor choice of words.)
I think in Schiit's case, they're one of those rare exceptions I alluded to earlier. They've managed to achieve in a short time the much-desired, "recognized and generally accepted" status that oft comes with age while still being a fairly young company. That's not only laudable, it's phenomenal. I hope they keep up the good work and continue to make products that people rave about for a long time to come. The audio marketplace needs more competitors to drive technology forward, and it needs game-changers like Schiit if it's going to stay relevant.
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I am curious what is it that turns people off from LH?
With the recent round of crowdfunding, it is the perception that LH is working on too many products at once without better establishing themselves? I noted that some people pointed out that LH had on delivered yet on prior projects (Wave and maybe one other?) from crowdfunding.
I don't really keep up and I have no skin in the game. Just trying to make sense of it all. I like succinct, otherwise I get confused.
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If simple is your thing this is what you can do with a spoon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y&ab_channel=RichardGaleFilms
P.S. The Tick made me do it.
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I was thinking maybe a power point slide or two.
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I am curious what is it that turns people off from LH?
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Thousand-dollar USB cables really tempts me to file them with those Synergy (whatever their name is) people, and crowdfunding? I did the rant already.
I am, though, as I type, listening to one of their products, and I am certainly not turned off.
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I too, do not have a dog in this race. However, I was interested in the GeekOut v2 and was researching it.
Yellow Flags:- Over promising, under delivering. Delays are to be expected for batch order business, to an extent.
- Not keeping paid customers in the loop with timely product updates. This is a lack of transparency and seriously degrades customer experience and trust. I am experiencing this right now with another retailer and will probably never order anything from that retailer again. This is an easy fix or should be.
Red Flags:- Saying they were caught up in delivering paid for units, but not. With more trust, this would seem like just a typo.
- Falling very far behind in delivering paid for units, then starting new campaigns. This wouldn't be so bad if their delays were not so extended. As it stands the appearance is they are over-extended, making it seem like they are not providing adequate service to customers who have already paid and getting prepaid moneys for new orders.
All of the above can be mitigated with better transparency and clearing their backlogs. If they can show they can deliver in a more timely manner and keeping me in the loop on reasons for delays, I would trust them enough to order from them.
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I am curious what is it that turns people off from LH?
Besides what the other guys said . . .
- False advertising: GO 450 was supposed to work with IEMs. It used to say so on their website. Nope, hiss. Then GO 100 was their answer. Is it? They say yes. Guys I trust say no. I'm keeping my money.
- The online assholery of their sales reps. Don't act like a dick in public if you want to sell to me.
- Unhelpful fans who evaluate based on the crowdfunding price instead of MSRP. If you challenge their assessment, they reply "of course I meant it's good for the crowdfunding price; I would never buy it at MSRP!" Yes, I blame them for their fans because confusion is their business model.
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I think they do. They've staked their business model (at least where R&D is concerned) on not only crowdfunding, but crowd-designing.
FWIW: This analog campaign is supposed to be a pre-sale, not crowdfunding or crowd designing. According to their blog the products are already completely designed and the "first batch" is already "on the way or completed". The pre-sale is "primarily to make a marketing splash in order to get people’s attention as well as leverage that momentum to create more future sales."
So maybe this campaign won't be plagued by the delays that previous campaigns saw.
Maybe.
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If it is truely a presale, they don't have to go through the Indiegogo platform and use their website instead, my guess is that Indiegogo gives them the protection of not having to issue refunds/returns etc.
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Or IGG gives them more exposure to new eyeballs that don't know of LH Labs as a household name.
LH knows the web counter values between their own site and their IGG campaigns.
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If simple is your thing this is what you can do with a spoon.
P.S. The Tick made me do it.
Well, I'm applauding that one. Haven't laughed that hard in a long time!
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Their website/marketing is full of the vague-claim/fud stuff that turns me off. I don't really remember, but perhaps that's why I didn't take notice of the initial crowdfunding announcements.
However, just because marketing people spew bullshit doesn't actually mean the product is bad. Audio is joining the likes of double glazing and life insurance, where the selling method ruins the reputation of an essentially possibly good product. And I am enjoying the Geek Out 450 that I borrowed yesterday.
Reading the stuff on their site, I'd walk away. Reading Merv's comments I'd buy [the V2 or V2+]. Sack the marketing people and give the commission to Changstar!
I'm not in the market for the kind of stuff, at the kind of price, in this "pre-order" anyway. Many of us probably have a wish list of stuff we won't be able to afford, but, if I'm dragged off the street to do one of those marketing surveys, my answer to "does out marketing make you want to buy our product?" gets a tick in the No box.
So, I tick yes to the question "are you just a cantankerous old curmudgeon?" So they probably don't care what I think anyway.
And, "are you a contrary cantankerous old curmudgeon?" Yes. I'm enjoying the GO450.
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Ha, I thought so. Do experiment with both outputs. However I do believe the Senns work better with the 47 ohm output.
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Well, I'm applauding that one. Haven't laughed that hard in a long time!
It is cruel how we take spoons for granted. Such a great tool.
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This type of thing in the campaign comments doesn't make a good impression:
Larry Ho
4 days ago
Hi, [name deleted]
S100 only has single-ended input, and original table has typo there. We should correct it long time ago but it seems some old errors still pop out some where.