CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Marvey on June 28, 2012, 08:34:08 PM
-
K550 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plot Measurements
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=373.0;attach=1601;image)
Treble razors of death anyone?
-
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/8/85/85155825_ele.jpeg)
;D
-
dare you to post that on you know where...
-
Thread is locked, but let me see what I can do.
-
Oh, how I despise these headphones.
-
No wonder I thought they were bass light. Too painful to turn up the volume.
-
I am very convinced that the first run of these were totally broken (which isn't out of the question. These marked AKG's transfer to fully outsourced manufacturing.). I bought mine less than two weeks ago, and I find them molasses dark with some of the best treble I've ever heard. They honestly remind me a bit of the LCD2 rev2.
Edit:
Nevermind. Now I hear it. All my preferred music just coincidentally had a valley at 7k that cancelled it out. It isn't awfully obtrusive, but it's definitely there.
-
This pair was purchased brand new 2 weeks ago from Amazon.
I heard an earlier pair and it had the same problem, but worse if my memory serves. And neither one has very good treble. It's not emphasized, but it isn't very precise or clear or clean sounding.
-
Distortion measurements compared to V-Moda M80. These K550s really suck.
-
That distortion.... sweet Jeebus.
-
Oooh, I approve of the new graph colors.
-
Only now that I see these graphs do I totally hear everything. They sound just like this. My source was just very concealing.
-
That left channel looks painful.
Kamaitachi straight to the ears....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamaitachi
-
OK since we have measurements I'm going to post the subjective impressions I wrote up when I first heard these, before I opened them up, and which I never even got a chance to post because I was attacked by rabid fanboys for briefly pointing out an issue with the K550 in my even briefer first thoughts. Note how positive I'm trying to be here! I can move these elsewhere if anyone wants. I just thought I'd juxtapose them with these measurements in light of the madness that unfolded from my impressions on HF.
I put them on and my in initial two thoughts in this order were:
1. Wow these sound pretty fast and also fairly even
15 seconds later
2. Wow something is wrong with the upper mids
These were my initial impressions of the phones stock:
Pros
No treble emphasis, which was a surprise considering AKG's recent history.
midrange headed down to bass is pretty flat/even until it rolls off the bass, but it has enough extension to be enjoyable. Bass is less than neutral though I'd say. Decent punch. Kind of HD600 like but of lesser quality (from distant memory of HD600)
Mids are not thin sounding, and sound natural unless/until they enter the glare zone. But there is a natural richness, as well as air to vocals. Good balance.
Overall pretty even sounding with pretty good tonality, except for that spot in the upper mids that sticks out sorely and a general upward tilt to the FR, ie the "clarity FR"
Still, tonality is good enough that most instruments outside of that spot basically sound like they should, which is more than most headphones can say.
Overall they sound fairly fast-ish.
Cons
upper midrange glare.
Soundstage is decent but not great. I think the glare really ruins what might be a spacious sounding closed headphone. It's almost like there are 2 soundstages happening at once, the lower part of the spectrum sounds more spacious to me than the upper mids/treble, which sound constricted. This gives them a lack of coherency, or a kind of bad crossover effect, where the sound is a bit disjointed. I think this is because the resonance artifact in the upper mids destroys soundstage by getting in the way of the "trick" the headphones are playing on your perception.
Not a treble head headphone. But it's not bad by any means. Treble is not that clean or fast sounding and seems a bit rolled off though not too bad. A bit rough or textured or papery. I'd describe the treble as "getting out of the way" (but not in a transparent way, rather in the sense that it doesn't stick out like many phones.)
Upper Midrange Issues
The upper midrange glare isn't as sharp as Grados or Ultrasones (from memory). It's not as piercing or painful as many headphones though it might be described as "jarring". It doesn't often cause me to reach for the volume knob in pain, but it does keep me from turning them up. Any instrument in that range sticks out way too loud, and looses proper tonality as the sound in that range gets mangled by resonance and takes on a plastic tonality. You can clearly hear the coloration being added to what should be the original signal. This is partly because it's such a specific problem spot.
-
Here's some pictures of the inside of the cups. This is why I tried to mod them. You can see the rubber dildo they had fitted over the driver (the black doohinkus in the center of the light gray circle where the magnet should be), my guess is as a half baked attempt at controling the enclosure resonance and what was likely fat, uncontrolled bass. So they just made the enclosure tiny. My mod removed this dildo, then I put plasticine in the baffle to appease the T50rp'ers (don't think it did anything) then I changed the damping on the back of the driver, and filled the cups with some wool material I have which I used because it doesn't decrease bass and these have none to loose. It did lessen the sharpness, and at the time I thought it was a big improvement to my pair. Then comparing to this pair here (that sounded better stock) the difference wasn't enough to be worth it.
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/2/29/350x467px-LL-29624922_akg-k550-1.jpeg)
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/d/d5/350x467px-LL-d5c2bd34_akg-k550-2.jpeg)
-
I put them on and my in initial two thoughts in this order were:
1. Wow these sound pretty fast and also fairly even
15 seconds later
2. Wow something is wrong with the upper mids
Almost exactly how I felt - but I jumped up and ripped the headphones from my head. I like to listen loudly sometimes though 85-93db.
-
Yeah. I was also intentionally listing positives to try to prevent what happened. ;-)
Only thing I find strange about this graph is that I thought the problem spot was lower, this graph makes it look closer to the treble. Cymbals didn't seem emphasized to me at all on these phones.
-
I publicly guessed 6.5kHz on HF from 17 seconds listening at the SHOW. 5-6kHz is rarely bad, unless it's extreme, like the HD700.
-
I feel vindicated by the publishing of these measurements. I've been going around telling people that I thought there was something wrong with the mids of the K550 because of that spike. Just the other day someone responded that he thought I was wrong to dislike them, because the mids were just "flat, uncolored and realistic".
Is there any explanation (from the measurements) as to why they seem to have a decently wide soundstage but no depth?
-
I created this file to help people who are having trouble hearing the peak:
https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Public/peak.wav?w=ec9fd428
The first few seconds are regular pink noise, then with the main peak roughly and badly EQ'd out (leaving the other peaks intact, which raises tons of other problems). It cycles back and forth a bit. It's not perfect, but it helps you hear what exactly what the heck we're talking about.
-
Is there any explanation (from the measurements) as to why they seem to have a decently wide soundstage but no depth?
Did you read my impressions above? I'd say the soundstage weirdness they have is coming from the difference in decay patterns between midrange and upper midrange, and also by the "driver dildo". The soundstage is more natural without it.
-
- Nirvana Nevermind (Japan or MFSL) Lithium.
- Talking Heads Speaking In Tongues (2007 remaster or original CD) Naive Melody.
Be sure to turn up the volume. You are not supposed to be listening to Nirvana at 65db. Yes, I'll pick the most challenging recordings. But my listening is not genre limited. Sometimes I like to listen loud ~93-95db. Well behaved headphones should have no serious issues with most musical genres and a wide selection of recordings. I do not pick specific headphones for specific recordings. Nor is my philosophy to own a dozen mediocre headphones with issues.
-
Did you read my impressions above? I'd say the soundstage weirdness they have is coming from the difference in decay patterns between midrange and upper midrange, and also by the "driver dildo". The soundstage is more natural without it.
Yep I read it, but I didn't think removing the dildo would affect the soundstage much until I re-read the mods performed. I probably should have known, since I have a pair of headphones that had a... reverse dildo D: ... the M-Audio Q40. Removing it also made the soundstage more natural and improved its midrange (more forward, clearer, etc.) It also has problems with enclosure resonance now that weren't so apparent before the mod, so I'm working on dampening the bass because its drivers are of surprisingly good quality.
-
Yeah it's more of a condom, but driver dildo just sounds catchy.
-
These aren't half bad if you shave the peak off a bit with EQ, though. They're definitely not GOD AWFUL, they're just not very good.
-
Distortion measurements compared to V-Moda M80. These K550s really suck.
Sorry for the noob question, but what exactly is so bad about the K550 distortion measurements compared to the M80? Is it mostly the D2 distortion above 2KHz? Just trying to learn how to read these as best as possible. :)
-
Mainly D2. Because it's magnitude higher than the others D3, D4, etc. the THD line usually ends up looking like the D2 line.
-
Yeah. I was also intentionally listing positives to try to prevent what happened. ;-)
So overall do you think these cans were worth the money?
-
Spent a week trying to sell my k550s and then realized that they're new so I can just send them to headroom to be restocked and get a full refund. Bonafide moron right here.
-
It's too bad about the treble. There were some good things about these headphones, but they actually hurt my ears, and I don't listen loud. I wasn't getting any bites in selling mine but traded for a AHA-120, w/ cash on my side. Best headfi move I've ever made!
-
So overall do you think these cans were worth the money?
I'm not a good person to ask this question because I think the only fairly priced headphones are the ksc-75's. I haven't listened to the 75's in a long time, so maybe I wouldn't like them as much now, but from memory I think they are better. The K550 has a lot of strengths from bass to midrange but it has a plastic tonality in the upper mids that makes it sound like a cheap headphone and then there's the peak that is uncomfortable. I'd price their sound at like 30 dollars TBH. I'd price the build quality at 300 though, it's excellent.
-
Sorry for my confusion, but does removing the driver dildo only serve to improve the sound?
With the distortion readings is there significance to the 2nd order harmonics measuring a higher distortion as opposed to higher order harmonics?
Lastly, is the measurement considered bad because of the 4% distortion at 4K and 5K frequencies?
-
It's normal for D2 to be above D3. D2 and D3 approach 1% from 20Hz to 40Hz. I would have expected slightly better bass quality from a closed can. The spikes in D2 are what's really problematic - the 4k D2 spike corresponds with the 8k ringing (seen on CSD). The distortion/ringing is spot-lit though and what RD and I found subjectively problematic while listening to music.
Read RD's review: http://www.head-fi.org/t/616273/akg-k550-unboxing-review-and-measurements-the-holy-trifecta-subjective-and-objective-smack-down (http://www.head-fi.org/t/616273/akg-k550-unboxing-review-and-measurements-the-holy-trifecta-subjective-and-objective-smack-down) The headphone starts out pretty decent, until...
The kicker is, we've found some variability with these units. Some are worse than others. And finally, both RD and I can't stand HF resonances.
-
Removing the driver dildo helps with what I found to be a strangely incoherent soundstage where certain parts of the spectrum sounded more restricted than others.
But I would only recommend modding them if you already like them stock. If you don't, then just move on.
Warnings for modding them: the screws from the baffle can get sucked into the driver by the magnet, as they will fit through the baffle holes. So keep loose screws away from the baffle. The baffle ports are also covered with a very thin film which could easily be pulled off or damaged. And there is a cable that connects the baffle to the cup, and which you could pull apart.
-
Thanks for the responses and the info. Chances are I'll be moving on, luckily I didn't spend too much on them.
-
Hello all, nice forum you've got here!
For those of us who still like the K550 regardless of their issues, here is another mod that is worth considering:
Instead of removing the dildo entirely and damping the entire enclosure, just damp the inside of the dildo. I tried cotton and the material used in Koss PortaPro earpads. Both work pretty well. I found that it does slightly reduce the harshness of these headphones. It also does make some sense - there is a bass port on the dildo which is probably there to reduce bass frequency energy buildup by releasing those frequencies into the big enclosure. This is also what gives the K550 that two-layer soundstage sensation - the bass seems more spacious because it is allowed to escape into the enclosure. Meanwhile, the higher frequencies remain trapped in the dildo and this is what causes the ridges we see in CSD plots - the mids and treble bounce around within the dildo and some of that energy is audible. By damping just the dildo, we reduce some of that energy buildup.
Mind you, the change in sound introduced by this mod is pretty minor; however, I definitely hear less of that plasticky or 'zazzy' quality that these headphones exhibit before the mod.
Hope this helps some people out there and forgive me if some of the above explanation is incorrect or misleading - I am not an engineer, just a headphone enthusiast.
-
I think RD gave up on them. The consensus here is to only listen to well produced jazz and classical recordings. And to avoid all Nirvana or Radiohead on them.
-
Fair enough, although I do have to admit that I like these headphones a lot and I do listen to tonnes of rock and metal music. To be honest, I didn't find them too offensive stock (they are a bit harsh but I've heard much much worse) and now I find them quite pleasant.
-
The dildo is not ported afaik. Check again.
-
There is a hole at the bottom of my dildo, I am certain of it.
-
It is possible design changes?
-
Unless you're talking about the hole the dildo goes into, there's a depression but not a hole from what I remember though I could be wrong it's been a while. Seal your lips around the dildo, blow it and see if any air leaks out.
-
Seal your lips around the dildo, blow it and see if any air leaks out.
:)p13
-
Here's the infamous driver dildo:
(http://aheadstudio.net/stuff/headphones/akg-driver-dildo/1.JPG)
(looking at this port, I am really glad AKG doesn't make condoms)
And here is the same dildo with damping:
(http://aheadstudio.net/stuff/headphones/akg-driver-dildo/2.JPG)
Overall, it seems like AKG might indeed have introduced some design changes in newer batches of these headphones.
-
Ahh, yes now I remember. If you look in the back of the cup there's another rubber piece that, AFAI can tell seals with this hole when it's all pressed into place, so it's not actually a vent. Might be one of those situations where the designers left room for tweaking and they wound up sealing it.
It doesn't really matter though either way. Either damp the dildo, or get rid of it and damp the cup. Your method is probably easier but I bet damping the cups gives you bigger soundstage.
In the end, you still have a flawed headphone.
-
Hmm, after some closer inspection, it seems that you are right, although I can't really tell if the vent is completely sealed or not. Looking solely at the inside of the cup, there seems to be a little space left between the dildo and the enclosure, and there is also actually a hole in the enclosure right beneath this vent. How much any of this actually affects the sound, I have no idea.
-
I do wonder if you have a more tolerable sounding version. RD had two K550s. One was nastier than the other. The one he had modded was nastier. (And I'm betting if he had modded the less nasty one, it would have yielded some decent results.) Unfortunately we will never know because a few idiots at HF destroyed RD's pioneering spirit by calling him a retard, not once, but several times in that thread. Both of us then responded by proceeded to post elephant shitting pix. Which then resulted in a train-wreck. And Curra having to clean up the aisle. And the thread being locked.
So it's entirely possible that your experience was much more pleasant than ours. I had heard sayings that there were some changes, but hadn't seen or heard anything to better substantiate such rumors.
-
Maybe CEE TEE can chime in with his thoughts on his replacement pair vs his first one. He loaned me his K550 and I modded them without really asking (he did say I could open them) so I felt bad and got him a replacement unit which wound up sounding better to me. I believe he agrees.
-
I think this illustrates how the average audiophile does not really know what to do when faced with measurements. In the end, no matter how a headphone measures, if you like the way it sounds, that should really be enough for you. All ears are different (and with circumaural headphones like these, the shape of our earlobes certainly has a larger effect on the sound than with supraaurals and IEMs, not to mention this particular headphone's well documented fit issues) and our hearing and sensitivity to glare in certain bands also varies from person to person. It is entirely possible that I am one of the lucky few with an AKG-certified head and ear shape and this could also account for why I found the K550 to be more pleasant sounding than you lot...
With sound, placebo and bias plays such a huge role - upon seeing a graph that indicates problems with the sound of the K550, it is extremely easy to be biased to start looking for this issue and concentrating on it in our brain. All of a sudden, this perfectly awesome headphone that you've been enjoying for a few months becomes unlistenable because all that we do is look for this issue that has been indicated by a visual graph, ie. the McGurk effect. Most people don't think about these things, don't analyse them and aren't able to step back and realise that measurements are imperfect and that the issue that affects some people might not effect them. After all, they have golden ears and all of a sudden, their self-esteem is threatened by these black magic scientific graphs. This is why audiophiles will then lash out and call people who are brave enough to post their own opinions based on measurements retards. Oh well, such is the nature of this hobby. In the end, I feel that measurements are a very useful, if imperfect, tool for an objective comparison of headphones but how much of this actually translates into listening pleasure is very debatable and this is the point - measurements give some fodder for a (hopefully) constructive conversation about headphones that has the potential of revealing flaws in certain headphone designs - certainly a positive thing for headphone research in general. But yeah, I can see how posting fairly controversial opinions about the K550 (controversial since a significant amount of owners really do enjoy this headphone) resulted in a bunch of butthurt people lashing out :)
-
Definitely found the first pair of K550 to have a little annoying peak that did bother me on some recordings.
The second pair is certainly better and I'll absolutely keep them.
They didn't sound good out of Super 7 (will try the better pair again sometime) but they really do well straight out of the iPhone or any small amp.
The first pair I wasn't entirely sure I would keep forever but the second pair is great.
I believe in product variation. If you get an annoying pair and need closed phones, I would say "be careful" and mod 'em (or sell 'em)!
-
The headphone itself also rings like a bell if you bash your teeth together. (Don't ask) Makes me wonder what resonances build up via the frame and the band over your head.
You can almost detect a pitch if you continually bash your teeth together!!!
-
I've found that after bashing my teeth together for a few minutes, I slowly start hearing a high pitched keening like the sound of a thousand teapots as heard through a hundred layers of cheesecloth. At this point I start getting ideas- grand ideas, but bad ideas. They make me feel guilty but powerful at the same time. I wrench my neck in short, violent movements as if trying to dislodge a crab from my brain. Gradually I lose the ability to be self aware and a fog steals over my vision until I forget that I am.
I wake up the next day and go about life as normal.
-
I wake up the next day and go about life as normal.
I have the urge to start tapping again. Once you have the habit, you just can't stop. In fact, if I can chatter my molars 440 times a second, perhaps I can get harmony going. I nice drone on the note A with the headband ringing like a bell. I think I'm onto something here. headbang
I've been trying to work out what note it is. It definitely has a pitch.
-
Welcome Ian...
-
Thanks Deep Funk. Thought I'd test a new pond. walk the plank :D
With the K550 though, many headphone users measure for resonances etc but I do find the teeth test tells you a lot about what is actually ringing!
I know it sounds really odd, but snap your teeth together and listen for the headband/cups ringing. The K550 rings quite nicely.
I've just got a Creative Aurvana and to a lesser extent, that also has its own little 'ring' too. (Or try tapping the top of your forehead with your fingers) Some headphones react!! Or even tapping the headband on the crown of your head.
It's a bit random, but you do find that different headphones reverberate more than others and this must contribute to the sound that they produce in some way.
Maybe a subjective test for ringing alongside the objective measurements that I see here. The 'tap' method may account for some of the measurements seen on the 3d 'waterfall' spreads which are really excellent guides.
Good 'ere innit? :)p1
-
I think you'll like this pond.
My K181 doesn't ring and won't ring at all due to its build. Once in the K550-thread in HF I placed the picture of a Philips SHP8000 (look it up!). I thought the two looked so similar I didn't understand the high price of the K550 although brand reputation does affect pricing.
The K550 does look pretty, there's no denying that...
-
I like what I've read. A friend introduced me to this place so I had a read and decided to have a go.
The K550 build is superb except for this tendency for the headband to ring. Mind you, the ringing might be contributing to its sound, which is what I'm getting at, I suppose.
I quite like it, but I do feel that there are problems up top. To me, it can be a bit steely but I get on with it pretty well most of the time. Other times, I quite like the comparative softness of the AT A900 but do miss the lower basement on that one.
Finding a really good closed headphone is difficult imo. I haven't really found one that I could absolutely relax with. At work, I use a DT150, but then that's loud and eq'd so it doesn't really sound the same on home stuff.
Closed headphones always seem like a compromise to me. I'd love to find a cracker so I can cut the world out properly and have excellent sound!!
-
The K550 build is superb except for this tendency for the headband to ring. Mind you, the ringing might be contributing to its sound, which is what I'm getting at, I suppose.
I quite like it, but I do feel that there are problems up top. To me, it can be a bit steely but I get on with it pretty well most of the time. Other times, I quite like the comparative softness of the AT A900 but do miss the lower basement on that one.
To determine if the sound of the driver reaches the headband and it can influence the sonic signature try:
A. Damp the headband with materials that damp the vibrations.
B. Put the handle end of a screwdriver against/in your ear and press the metal part, that normally would drive the screw, against the headband/cups (don't scratch it !) and play the HP at loud levels. If you can hear the music coming through as 'pitched' sounds in the headband it could very well contribute.
Finding a really good closed headphone is difficult imo. I haven't really found one that I could absolutely relax with. At work, I use a DT150, but then that's loud and eq'd so it doesn't really sound the same on home stuff.
Closed headphones always seem like a compromise to me. I'd love to find a cracker so I can cut the world out properly and have excellent sound!!
LFF Paradox ? (add the filter ?)
or perhaps Mad Dogs ? (add the filter ?)
BMF ? (add the filter ?)
In other words modified (closed) T50RP
-
Yes, the T50RP looks interesting. It could double up at home and work being capable of taking 3000 mW as well.
It looks like a dustbin but if it works, it works!!
They kind of remind me of those old bucket headphones that used to be put into keyboard labs in colleges. (Maybe they still do!!)
The 'teeth chatter ring' on the K550 is quite extended in comparison to other headphones. It's pretty strong, so my feelings were that it would probably contribute to its sound, but sometimes, these things are actually taken into consideration in the construction of the headphone.
I was curious when reading here about the peakiness up top as to whether that ring might contribute.
I am beginning to think that the flatter you can get the response on a headphone, the more versatile it's going to be with all styles of music tbh. I have tended to use headphones for each 'type' of thing I'm listening to, but none of them are really 'correct' in reality. They just empahsise what I'm wanting to hear in the music that I'm listening to.
One good flat 'un would probably replace the lot of them!! :)p2 Then I could concentrate more on good music rather than worry about the gear. walk the plank
-
Yes, the T50RP looks interesting. It could double up at home and work being capable of taking 3000 mW as well.
I am beginning to think that the flatter you can get the response on a headphone, the more versatile it's going to be with all styles of music tbh. I have tended to use headphones for each 'type' of thing I'm listening to, but none of them are really 'correct' in reality. They just empahsise what I'm wanting to hear in the music that I'm listening to.
One good flat 'un would probably replace the lot of them!! :)p2 Then I could concentrate more on good music rather than worry about the gear. walk the plank
To me it is only something special when modded to pieces and I might add needs the filter to add the 'sparkle' that otherwise isn't there.
You will need to go a lot more expensive to come near the same SQ (IMHO)
A modded T50RP does get picky about the source, and with source I mean recording quality.
It will ONLY shine when that part is O.K.
Mediocre and poor quality will just sound mediocre and poor.
The DT990/D2000 are less 'picky' and mediocre recordings can sound good, but that's because they aren't flat.
Hmmm shouldn't derail the thread... K550 is rated below modded T50RP (there, I mentioned the K550... that should do it :)p17)
-
The Beyers and D2000 should make bad recordings sound much worse than the T50rp because they have peaky resonance (or in the DT990's case, maybe just elevated treble, I don't know) that the recordings can "light up". The T50rp shouldn't have ringing that bad, though it depends on the mod. You can create super uneven response very easily.
Most of the time, picky about recordings = colored.
Also, different mods are very different, so you can't really make sweeping generalizations about modded T50rp's. All you can talk about generally is potential and limitations.
-
Most of the time, picky about recordings = colored.
There^^^^ Sometimes extra bass covers up the coloration of the mids and highs temporarily but in the end, a colored headphone is always going to be picky with recordings.
-
One thing I feel about headphones is that they reproduce music cleanly and it's all very detailed and all that, but when I compare live stuff with the recording in a headphone, it's comparatively shrunk. Particularly in the bass.
The original 'guts' that I hear live is often missing in the headphone, but the notes are all there.
My guess is perhaps that's why we see a raised bass response and treble in so many headphones. An attempt to recreate the 'fatness' of what we often perceive live.
Speakers seem better in this respect. (Or may be I like wall reflections in my music!!)
It makes you wonder exactly what 'flat' is. I have both DT990 and D2000. I prefer the D2000 tbh, but I do realise that it's not a flat headphone, but it goes a long way to reproducing the fruity bottom end that I perceive much more in live music. (The kind of live sound where you 'feel' bass)
Sounds like I need a bass 'vibrator'!! :gross:
-
HD250 II Linear...
-
HD250 II Linear...
I have one of those as well!! :)p3
-
I had to sell my two Linears to survive December. That headphone kicks ass...
(I'm funk1969 from RG if you haven't noticed already.)
-
I like what I've read. A friend introduced me to this place so I had a read and decided to have a go.
The K550 build is superb except for this tendency for the headband to ring. Mind you, the ringing might be contributing to its sound, which is what I'm getting at, I suppose.
I quite like it, but I do feel that there are problems up top. To me, it can be a bit steely but I get on with it pretty well most of the time. Other times, I quite like the comparative softness of the AT A900 but do miss the lower basement on that one.
Finding a really good closed headphone is difficult imo. I haven't really found one that I could absolutely relax with. At work, I use a DT150, but then that's loud and eq'd so it doesn't really sound the same on home stuff.
Closed headphones always seem like a compromise to me. I'd love to find a cracker so I can cut the world out properly and have excellent sound!!
Hi Ian!! I am Chris from RG!
I think oyur findings are correct and i trust your conclusions... i think they have a top end sparkle... but i also find them superb.
My listening session was very brief though...
I also have modded T50rp and they too have sparkle... on par with my HD800's... on the sparkle that is...
Can you tell us more of your findings on the K550 because of the not so good graph... and distortion figures...
-
Hi Funky. I thought it was you. And Chris!!!! Blimey, it's getting busy on here. ahoy
This is like a little island between the big USA site and the little UK site. There are surely some wandering sharks in between eh? walk the plank
Since you two know me, then you'll know that I like the K550 in spite of the problems that come with it. Then again, lots of headphones have problems, but the K550 does quite a lot nicely imo.
The mids are a little more present for me than the HD250 II. They also go lower than you'd think at first listen. You just have to get those huge cups in the right place. The fit for me is fine, but I think some have problems either with ears touching the centre or there's a gap that some are unaware of at the back so they get a nasty bass response.
The funny thing with the K550 is that I feel sometimes that they have an edgy top and so swap to something else. Then returning to the K550, I feel that actually, they're better than the pair I swapped to!!
Getting the sound to click into focus I think is quite important with them and then go no further up in volume or else they have the potential to turn really edgy.
I got a real surprise with them and the K601's though when I had John's DAC's. Both bloomed into something quite special. I have no idea why, but it was then that I felt that they do a lot more than I first thought tbh. The bass in particular seemed to really blossom and has me now thinking much more about the source. My CD player isn't shabby, but they really became something else on my computer setup.
BTW - the T1 is doing a similar thing.
So, in spite of the problems with the K550 stated on here, I enjoy them a great deal. The graphs published are really good and they are useful in pinpointing what you could be hearing with a headphone but there's more to I think than just a graph and the lugs are telling me that I need to look further back from the headphones.
However, I do think Purrin (I think it is) is doing a great job with the measurements and it gives us something solid to lock onto while listening to headphones. It can help us focus on those areas that his graphs pull out as perhaps being a bit dodgy and see if it's annoying enough for us to want to move on to something else.
Sometimes, I listen to a headphone and think that it's really not quite right and can't pinpoint where it is. One that I heard and actually identified a problem was the K701. It was a long way up, but I think I was aware of something wrong and then saw it on a graph later. So I quite like looking at these graphs and also use Goldenears quite a bit nowadays as well.
The BBC seem to favour the DT770's in the broadcast studios. I even like some aspects of them as a closed headphone, although the bass can pound away a bit too much for me. I often wonder about their potential with mods to control that bass a bit more, but as yet, I haven't really found a closed headphone that I'd settle absolutely for.
The Fostex has me interested. Pity about their looks, but from what Solderdude has said about them, they look to be a good buy.
Nice to see some familiar faces. :wheel:
I also notice quite a few familiar names from the USA site too ..... :)p10
-
Good to see you too here and Funky!!
I agree with you 100% about the 550's
Give the T50's a chance but mod them first... they are truly up there with the best if this is done carefully!!
This is a great forum!
Hi to all!!
-
(http://img1.lesnumeriques.com/test/76/7655/responcy_freq_k551.jpg)
The frequency response (above) shows a very well-balanced output with good levels of fidelity. In fact, the output here looks quite similar to that of the AKG K701, a real reference when it comes to audio quality. Bass frequencies are nicely present and remain stable (on the graph above, bass frequencies look a bit weaker than they actually are because the earphone cushions weren't a perfect fit for our audio test dummy's ears). All in all, bass is reproduced effectively and isn't too boomy. Plus, voices are rendered well as mid-range frequencies are slightly bolstered. High frequencies are a little stronger than the rest of the spectrum. The peak at 8 kHz is something we often see in headphones, but it doesn't cause any noticeable sibilance here.
facepalm
http://www.digitalversus.com/headphones/akg-k551-p15605/test.html (http://www.digitalversus.com/headphones/akg-k551-p15605/test.html)
-
The K550 and K551 seem to be closely related indeed.
The K551 is slightly more expensive it seems (will depend on where you buy it)
Never been a big AKG fan though. :-[
-
So...
Has anyone tried the new K551s?
It seems they actually are a bit different (or at least measurements seem a bit different)
http://en.goldenears.net/17012
-
Have not heard them... and they do look different, but I'm still seeing potential razors of treble pain on the CSDs.
-
Typical AKG.
Just look at the K701 -> K702 -> Q701 -> K702 65th
The sound gradually improved from one to the next, but it's still the same headphone for the most part. Basically the 65th Anniversary version is what the K701 should have been in the first place, only at triple the price. ::)
-
I think they used different pad material on the anniversary edition, which would affect a lot of the sound.
-
I've got the K702 65 here, and going on memory the pads seem largely the same as the older versions to me.
I think AKG claim the difference is in more careful driver matching or something? In any case it's not a huge difference.
-
So I got another K550 from CT. This one is much more balanced and listenable than the 550 I had heard at the Headamp tables a few times. Those were thin, dry and bass light w/ the treble nasties. I thought they were doing the latest Shure trick by rolling off the bass to enhance fake detail and clarity. This pair is much more balanced, even a hair over neutral in the Bass, notes are more fleshed out and the signature is pretty clean and clear but the treble still has some issues. Female vocals and strings seem to carry harmonics into the fatigue zone either by peak and/or ringing. There is a hint of a unrefined signature and tbh seems to remind me a bit of the HFI580 which was my favorite Ultrasone, especially modded. I'm going to compare them now. I would listen to the 550 loud and over extended time unless the treble were resolved one way or another. It's just too splashy up top.
Hmm, the HFI580 (modded using AKG pads ironically) is even more refined and smoother sounding, they have a shout somewhere in the midrange but the treble is much more forgiving. The midrange signature is on the leaner side compared to the K550 , no doubt from the pads I'm using, but the overall signature is cleaner and better than the K500. Bass is much bigger than the 500 but actually just as detailed, textured and resolving of information on the track. No surprise as they were designed as Bass monitors for percussion. These simply have some of the best quality bass you can get for around $100 that I've ever heard if you don't mind the emphasis.
If I had to pick a driver to work with, the 50mm HFI580 would be it. If I had to pick a luxurious, and gorgeous housing it would be the K550. Hate to say it, but the AKG actually looks like a classier knock off of the Beats Pro done in black. Looks good.
-
^Just happened to see this post. Thanks for posting your findings.
I've heard two K550 that sounded worse than this pair that I sent down. Hopefully comparative measurements will confirm subjective impressions. If not, it's cool...I still like these straight out of iDevices and will keep them. :)p3
-
UPDATE: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1053.msg27513/topicseen.html#new (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1053.msg27513/topicseen.html#new)
-
i remember listening to these at bestbuy and even tried it on my phone there. i had to put them down after few seconds cause they did pierce my ears when listening. i was disappointed in them especially the 350 dollar price tag on them. the best headphone at bestbuy had was the sennheiser 558 which i really liked and was pleasant listening experience and only headphone worth the price tag it was asking for(i forgot how much but was defiantly lot cheaper than the akg).