CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => The Meeting Place => Topic started by: zerodeefex on August 15, 2015, 07:37:24 PM
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Some pics from the show:
- BETTER PIX AND GENERAL STUFF STARTS HERE: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2703.msg77774.html#msg77774 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2703.msg77774.html#msg77774)
- LISST w/ MJOLNIR 2+LYR 2: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2703.msg77911.html#msg77911 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2703.msg77911.html#msg77911)
- ETHER / ETHER C DISCUSSION: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2703.msg77820.html#msg77820
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2634.0;attach=10625;image)
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2634.0;attach=10627;image)
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Any news on the price to upgrade an existing Gungnir?
Really interested how this would work too. Is it simply swapping out the DAC/analog cards?
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Gungnir upgrade is up on their site. $500. Need to send mobo back to them.
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Looking at their site, how does the Lyr 2 + LISST tubes compare to the Mjolnir 2 + LISST tubes?
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Everything up on the site and this is already ordered: http://schiit.com/products/gungnir
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D-S Gungnir was @ $749 early this morning. Now $849. Not that fair...or maybe I've missed something...? p:8
Edit : ok, should be the USB implementation, my bad p:/
Ali
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D-S Gungnir was @ $749 early this morning. Now $849. Not that fair...or maybe I've missed something...? p:8
Ali
USB is included now.
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Has anyone used the LYR2 as a preamp paired with a SS amp?
I'm thinking of getting it because of the versatility (tube or LISST!!).
Any feedback would be appreciated.
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now that redacted ^2 is announced, any word on redacted timeframe?
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now that redacted ^2 is announced, any word on redacted timeframe?
Kind of bummed that Bifrost Multibit isn't yet ready. It was really the only thing I was looking forward to getting.
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Kind of bummed that Bifrost Multibit isn't yet ready. It was really the only thing I was looking forward to getting.
It's a trickle down, not a waterfall :)p13
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It's a trickle down, not a waterfall :)p13
At least I was being more realistic than the HF'ers wishing for a balanced magni/multibit modi. p:8
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Gungnir Multibit is extremely tempting. I wonder if it needs to be constantly on like Yggdrasil.
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Posting pix. I'll let you guys talk about the stuff before me, with maybe the exception of the multi-bit Gungnir, which I will do a more thorough write-up (I have one in my possession).
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/f2D1xvBQe-XYs0nzBYMFmAC7gHW2BfTkWrmkwy9hChI=w820-h1232-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WonVpK910IomGPUldHNyJ1DWaEFBIN_1fQWpxIh4X4A=w1232-h820-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kUSk48wGCU16wL8vH62-U4yrIgLgsye6ePVfGs7Iee8=w1232-h820-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/J_xtkxmjJWEbjtkZT-1oTP-c7wF1evkc3DRqyFTA1A4=w1232-h820-no)
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/b92BnqgvpyUMtzVtK7wcWYywSNoUGVPsYMOnW_IAdlU=w1232-h820-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5fipgxAqhC-L7kIwUbe82XftrAm1SNl6BxpAngC83J4=w1232-h821-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/QreQqHihJUq5AcUWSWJTvA5UYFBVq92Amgh0BvDno1w=w1232-h820-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KEtRw3UT8tYDTcMXD_Isq5-SvxjrYorgfJQ13H1gtmw=w820-h1232-no)
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/747e240ka1TQAKAeNo3BYLC76Khk1IMwY8H245fyk_s=w1232-h820-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/anB1UCpyVgFR1ZacVOfDP4m7WBEba-kApHR-aDcE_1o=w1232-h820-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VjjDUU_g_2OHx9_sqkUUg7hNEcl-XVkpl12Iy2QiJwE=w1232-h820-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/f6Uiud-XLTnEWg4sjvCWj1eOUshw2BE1tbE0e-pAvPY=w1232-h820-no)
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xm5vH7DQTtTGzliRFNNSAYRmSRtaOhrzomPV9yKFcZY=w1232-h820-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4eVq6ApivYCnQuLKzepFtFMw6fbGhP03pp289yLdn20=w1232-h820-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/lDCnXDFx_fLxGc3kea0zy8TEL-R6utgAzp7TqfB66ks=w1232-h820-no)
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YuzKPEPt9xd1I-7T4glk9QaWu9EFvZFoDjK6QweImrs=w1232-h820-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/65EXqMmLID8HA86V5hsh8UvkeZ7rgR0tJ8ytCC_Atkg=w1232-h820-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ogT-Qn4MUDd6Jgwrx48yjzAFhYX-aWjKXDRpvvVjLWM=w1232-h820-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KQ9TJqATeazgYsd4jKtwAg7ZStzLOJtzubnY3IUCbHQ=w1232-h820-no)
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Gungnir Multibit is extremely tempting. I wonder if it needs to be constantly on like Yggdrasil.
Multi-bit Gungnir only required 2-3 days to get up to speed. Keep in mind that Yggy when new required 7-10 days. Now it seems about 3-4 days, so it's likely the MB Gungnir would require even less after a certain time of usage. If you decide to leave it on, I'm sure the MB Gungnir sucks less wattage.
I guess I'll entertain questions for now if any.
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Does Mjolnir 2 with the LISST tubes sound just like the original Mjolnir? How does it sound with the stock tubes?
Thanks Marv! ;D
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Does Mjolnir 2 with the LISST tubes sound just like the original Mjolnir? How does it sound with the stock tubes?
Mojo 2 with the LISST solid-state tubes sounds better than the original Mojo. The familial resemblance is there, but the sound is more refined. The old Mjolnir had sort of a jumpy staticky raw treble. The Mojo 2 seems to have calmed this behavior down. The Mojo 2 with the LISST is actually more neutral and cohesive sounding throughout the audio band compared to the Mojo 2 with the glass tubes.
The Mojo 2 with the glass tubes is really the spiritual successor to the Lyr. Quite a bit of warmth. That being said, the Mojo 2 with glass tubes is has a very lively engaging sound (and makes more use of the MB Gungnir's capabilities than the metal cans). It's the and obvious clear upgrade path of for those who like the Lyr. Folks I talked to were split on what they preferred. I personally would probably give the nod to the real tubes despite the extra warmth (I could always use HD600s instead of HD650 if you get my drift.) Also, I have no idea what the stock tubes in the Mojo 2 were. I'm sure rolling some vintage tubes would result in a better sound or different tonal balance.
For Lyr, I preferred the LISST. Maybe someone could remind me to comment on this later.
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Recent impressions of the multibit Gungnir have been less than stellar. What's the word o that bad boy at the Schiit show? I imagine it's the final production model there?
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Ok, Marve, since you asked - if I buy the Corben Dallas Multibits Gungnir, will I always regret not having bought the Ygg? I'm in a financially restricted situation atm so legit question...
I'm still in the process of tweaking the M7 (got an I2S FIFO buffer on the way) but have been planning to audition a Ygg in future based on all the hypes.
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Recent impressions of the multibit Gungnir have been less than stellar. What's the word o that bad boy at the Schiit show? I imagine it's the final production model there?
I think there may have been some confusion at the Colorado meet. I asked Jason about this, and it's my understanding there was no multi-bit Gungnir there at all. (There seems to be some confusion in the terms reDACted and reDACted^2 is my guess). I didn't hear MB-Gungnir at the Schiit show as any different from the unit I have here at home. The 90% of Yggy assessment still stands. It gets a few points closer with Wyrd. I will do a more significant write-up later - probably won't be more than a few paragraphs.
Ok, Marve, since you asked - if I buy the Corben Dallas Multibits Gungnir, will I always regret not having bought the Ygg? I'm in a financially restricted situation atm so legit question...
I personally have been using MB-Gungnir and Yggy interchangeably for a little while for two reasons: I've been going to shows as part of the Eddie Current crew, so I need the best DAC I have to show off EC amps; purposely to see if I miss one to the extent where I bother switching stuff on the rack. The fact is, when Yggy has been replaced by multi-bit Gungnir on the rack (whether it be my headphone setup or speaker setup), I don't miss it. This cannot be said of regular sigma-delta Gungnir - which cannot replace Yggy. The ultimate qualifier being musical involvement, i.e. does this make me continue listening? That being said, Yggy is better than MB-Gungnir.
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KEtRw3UT8tYDTcMXD_Isq5-SvxjrYorgfJQ13H1gtmw=w820-h1232-no)
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/002fe12f467fb810eeb833f2ec3e4630/tumblr_moyi3a2kgk1r6l6vio1_250.gif)
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Lol, that scale making the response variations look smaller than they are.
Also, yes, we must have mixed up reDACted terms at the Boulder meet. And don't worry much about those impressions. I've only heard positive things so far about MB Gungnir.
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now that redacted ^2 is announced, any word on redacted timeframe?
gosh I need to know this, excited but at the same time a little bummed about this.
I wanted to get myself a nice birthday present - but not MB Gungnir level of nice.
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1. So to clarify, is Gungnir MB = reDACted? Some people are saying that Gungnir MB = reDACted^2, so it's getting a bit confusing. Or, is Gungnir MB neither reDACted nor reDACted^2?
2. I have a feeling Mojo 2 might be a good match for power hungry orthos, but how well does it fare with high-impedance Senn HD6x0 and HD800 respectively (either tube or LISST, whichever's better)?
3.
The fact is, when Yggy has been replaced by multi-bit Gungnir on the rack (whether it be my headphone setup or speaker setup), I don't miss it.
Assuming you're using Senn HD6x0/800, would you feel the same way for Mojo 2 if Ragnarok or say, Black Widow, were replaced by it? I'm sure Rag and BW are superior to Mojo 2 but is the difference big enough that switching to Mojo 2 will make you miss the other two a lot?
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Thanks all for the impressions and pictures. Looks like a great show !
Congratulations to Jason Mike and the crew.
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I am really interested in the BW as well. I love my schiit Vali and if the EC house sound is similar to it, I can see myself getting one. I currently own an LCD2.2 and was always tempted by its pairing with the Mjolnir, but reading the impressions here, it seems that the BW is more versatile... especially with the HD800 (or HD6xx), since I am strongly considering picking up a pair soon.
Did anyone happen to try M2 with an HD800? Interested in hearing impressions.
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3.
Assuming you're using Senn HD6x0/800, would you feel the same way for Mojo 2 if Ragnarok or say, Black Widow, were replaced by it? I'm sure Rag and BW are superior to Mojo 2 but is the difference big enough that switching to Mojo 2 will make you miss the other two a lot?
I'm curious about this too Marv. Forget the Rag's speaker amp capability. Would you miss the Rag's sq if you had to slum it with the MJ2, with the HD800 as your main headphone?
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Now I am confused. We only had one of the redacted models in Colorado. We were told it was redacted, the narrower chassis dac, which has not been released. If that corresponds to the redacted in Marv's chart then we are good. If not, there was a BIG communication disconnect.
Clarity anyone?
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Eating right now. Stay tuned.
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Eating right now. Stay tuned.
hm, I'm just as interested in what you are eating for dinner.
does that make me a merv perv?
p:0
and yes, it would appear we at the Boulder meet had:
Redacted^2
in our presence.
which is still not released.
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yes, it would appear we at the Boulder meet had:
Redacted^2
in our presence.
which is still not released.
Well, I stand corrected. I thought the not yet released narrow chassis was redacted. Guess my code reading through these threads was all fouled up. Makes sense though when you look at the awesomeness chart.
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Marvey,
Are there any headphones and/or amplifiers that you think would not be a good pairing with MB Gungnir? Ultimate DAC chart position?
How about any weakness, issues, or nitpicks on it, like it pops/clicks too much when switching frequencies, problems with inputs, buttons feel mushy, etc?
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hm, I'm just as interested in what you are eating for dinner.
does that make me a merv perv?
The term 'changbanger' springs to mind. ;D
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Ether carbon- shit that was good :
Bifrost-->lyr 2---> ether C over hd800
MB gungnir----> mojo 2 tube---> ether C end game for ortho lovers
Ethers vs paradox
The ether are legit more resolving and bigger soundstage, depth is a draw. Light and comfortable. But neither reached the subbass the paradox can and the the natural tone that it's legendary for. The ether bass and mids are not quite right but with the tube moio the problem is midigated to near zero.
Ether open vs closed(aka carbon)
If you hate the ortho wall its still there sorry. The open back has better bass (weird I know) gives more body to the notes makes the closed sound bass light. Still not what I'd call great bass but its there and doesn't detract from music. The closed have this great separation up top, instruments are more distinct a/b with the hd800 on the lyr 2 the ether sounded better. However it had a slight sharpness in the notes that hit high. When paired with tube mojo sharpness left and bass was added sooo...... pretty good.
Ether product variation
There were six stations each with there own open and closed back didn't really hear any product variation but if there were blessed are the those that get the closed back ether that was at the mojo2 tube/ mb gungnir----
Music used
Al Greene- lets stay together 1995 greatest hits
Alice in chains- down in a hole MTV unplug
Fleetwood Mac - the chain
More later phone dying
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Ether carbon- shit that was good :
Bifrost-->lyr 2---> ether C over hd800
MB gungnir----> mojo 2 tube---> ether C end game for ortho lovers
Fleetwood Mac - the chain
WTF!
for real? you and I mud wrestle if the ether C is really THAT amazing (with quality control) with these pairings!
p:8
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MB gungnir----> mojo 2 tube---> ether C end game for ortho lovers
Whoa, setting some high expectations there! :)p6
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A few of us continue to think the Ether open falls behind the HD800 and the Ether C is behind both. Orthos simply pair better with the Lyr than dynamics. HD800 still doesn't like the Lyr as much.
Ether C has a more 'polite' and 'even' sound that could conversely be called dynamically compressed. There is less contrast between low end and top end tone and dynamics versus both the Ether open and HD800. Some said they prefer this signature the most, I personally do not. Live music is simply has a higher contrast ratio than what the Ether C is delivering to my ears. The Ether C was simply a bit too lean and uninvolving for me, verging on almost hollow and two dimensional. The HD800 and Ether are simply more full and dimensionally complete with their imaging. If the Ether C seems more resolving or clear, it's possibly because it's quite lean by comparison. In this regard, I personally find it lacking information.
I can see the HD800 in stock form being a closer competitor for the Ether open, but in modded form it's simply no contest for imaging, resolution, etc, etc. I'd recommend the Ether for those that prefer a smoother planar tone that is more forgiving of upstream issues, wherever they may be if any and are not concerned with ultimate scalability. I actually found the 6-7khz peak on the Ether C mor spotlight with certain tracks versus a stock HD800. Perhaps due to the 'C' having a more narrow peak versus the HD800's less dramatic one even though the elevation is similar. It also has a larger peak at 10khz which may or may not be notable depending on your sensitivity to a T1. Good thing the Ether C is not as dramatic as the Tesla. Again, tracks used and gear upstream will help to accentuate or diminish this aspect, but their presence is objectively there. In the end, your ears will decide.
That said, Dan did do a commendable job mitigating the effects of making a closed can more bloated and deserves credit over more recent closed planar afterthoughts of engineering.
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ether C end game for ortho lovers
It's what I'd strive for if buying closed can that's for sure. Used to think it was the TH900 :-DD
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I am really interested in the BW as well. I love my schiit Vali and if the EC house sound is similar to it, I can see myself getting one. I currently own an LCD2.2 and was always tempted by its pairing with the Mjolnir, but reading the impressions here, it seems that the BW is more versatile... especially with the HD800 (or HD6xx), since I am strongly considering picking up a pair soon.
I'm curious about this too Marv. Forget the Rag's speaker amp capability. Would you miss the Rag's sq if you had to slum it with the MJ2, with the HD800 as your main headphone?
I'm with EC now, so not going to say anything in comparison to BW for obvious reasons. The Mojo2's improved treble refinement and tube goodness should lend itself well to the HD800. The Rag is still better than the Mojo2. More lively, clearer, better ability to distinguish small differences in volume, the audio equivalent of better shadow detail. Tubes give the Mojo 2 a boost with these characteristics (as well as resulting in a warmer sound), but Rag is still the better amp.
I actually felt the Mojo 2 was very slightly limiting what the multi-bit Gungnir could do.
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I actually found the 6-7khz peak on the Ether C mor spotlight with certain tracks versus a stock HD800.
Bingo.
To put things into perspective, closed cans are simply just a bitch to get right. Many of us here feel the LCD-XC as a good (bad) example of this. What was my comment on the XC? Take the LCD-X and fuck up the midrange.
To be fair, the extent of the Ether C's weirdness isn't as bad as the XC, but it's still weird sounding. Such is the price of wanting closed cans.
Regarding the peak Anaxilus mentioned, yes, it's there. I was speaking with a few friends at the meet, and the best I could describe it was sort of a treble slap. Like a semi-pain slap in the face. Anaxilus is also right on is that this "slap" is spotlit or tends to be narrow. Not all music exhibited this. I did hear this tendency early on and intentionally put on some marginal B-52s tracks from Cosmic Thing which I suspected would highlight the peak to confirm.
Also noted (same as others) severely compressed bass, bump in the middle mids (sort of an Audio Techica woody effect), lack of air / last octave, and lack of openness for obvious reasons. I actually disagree with Jude's assessment that the C is the better Ether and that the C is "pretty open" sounding for a close headphone. It's not, but then again everything is relative.
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(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t34.0-12/p206x206/11896897_10155890705205043_1759731563_n.jpg?oh=5dd8ba82ec3d824a7ffc1da5b6053d61&oe=55D2FD59)
Really enjoyed the Ether C. My wife and I still prefer the open version though. As for the Mjolnir 2 I quite enjoyed it with the stock tubes along with an HE-6. I felt it had enough to drive it. Together with the gungnir multibit it's a more enjoyable refined sound compared to the last mjolinir and gungnir I listened to.
I actually felt the Mojo 2 was very slightly limiting what the multi-bit Gungnir could do.
Interesting observation Marv. I currently have an old Theta and EF-6 as my home unit and while I was quite impressed with Mojo 2 and Gungnir multibit, it still doesn't compare with Yggy-Rag and I'm not so sure I'd go gungnir multibit from what I have now even though it probably is technically better.
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On the Ether.
I like the Ether. It's a really good headphone, good air, good openness. The only minor issue I have with it is its bass performance. The Ether just doesn't quite have that bass articulation, impact, and clean low sustain that other orthodynamics have. Throughout our constant upgrades, I think we sometimes forget to compare the latest and greatest to the old references or even something cheap.
By this I mean that I actually brought my HD650 (coin and rear-damping removal modded) and got to compare the "lowly" HD650 against the Ether. Guess what? The HD650 is the better headphone. While Ether strives to be neutral, the HD650, past the midbass bump, is neutral. The HD650 is just as open, has a smoother response from the mids all the way up top, and MORE is resolving (notable from even the Mojo2 / multi-bit Gungnir combo). The HD650's biggest weakness is its murky bass, then again the Ether's bass quality isn't much better if at all. Therefore HD650 wins or ties on almost all counts.
Honestly, I'd advise people considering the Ether to at least audition the HE400S tweaked with Focus pads. I know a few of you guys at THE SHOW commented that the HE400S was sound-quality wise better than the Ethers. I wasn't ready to make that statement yet then, and I'm still not now, but I'm close. In hindsight, I should have brought the tweaked HE400S along with me to make a more decisive assessment.
Remember, one Changstar motto is don't waste your hard earned money.
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ahhhhhh that got out of hand fast
ok I was going to post tomorrow but I should clarify the best out of the show was the MB GUNGNIR-->MOJO 2 SOLID--->HD650. It was pretty great. The bass was strong and aggressive, it was a fighter, I was impressed. Didn't go down that low but what was there was impressive. Now that some of the shock has worn off i think I want something with a little less bass.
Marv is the hd600 as fast but with less bass.
Ok topic at hand
yep the Ether-C is the best ortho in my opinion (in that stack):
abyss- never listen to it 5 Gs not my thing
HE-1000- every listening session starts of with (plugs in) "oh yeah you have a good pair" ....so no recommendation from me
audeze- too heavy, bass accentuated, and rolled off at the top
he-6 - not as clear as the ether but with a hardier bass (only heard one and with a hendrix tract so can't comment on dynamics)
he-580 - smaller sound stage (than ether), good speed though, bass is better integrated with headphone (cavilli crimson + dac 19 and yggy/rag stack)
fostex mods- not as resolving + smaller stage (depth wise: Zacks omni is more airier/LLFs paradox as good or better depth)
NOTE: so the ethers wouldn't be my go to for bass (either closed or open) it would be great to have some of the 560 bass but its is what it is.
So lets analyse the stack, before people blame me for their purchase:
the superburrito filter and r2r kind of force the bass. This is what I heard at the SHOW when paired with the carbon, but when you add a little tube warmth its not so bad its actually pretty good. Bonus the mids get a little more body.
the sharp tremble. Gotta agree with anax there is a peak, I told Dan exactly that when I heard the yggy/rag stack. This is out of a r2r dac imagine the peak out of a D/S dac. Yikes!!! Once again adding tubes seemed to get it that last bit fixed.
Over all I stand by my recommendation, just know I like things pretty neutral so... yeah.
Oh I wouldn't ever try to build an end game set up around an ortho. I can't get over that ortho wall. But if you like orthos and neutrality thats my suggestion.
edit:
shit this thread moves fast.
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ahhhhhh that got out of hand fast
ok I was going to post tomorrow but I should clarify the best out of the show was the MB GUNGNIR-->MOJO 2 SOLID--->HD650. It was pretty great. The bass was strong and aggressive, it was a fighter, I was impressed. Didn't go down that low but what was there was impressive. Now that some of the shock has worn off i think I want something with a little less bass.
Hahaha. I was waiting for you to say that! Since I did hand you my HD650s after all. Yes, I agree with you that the Ether was the best ortho in that room that I heard. But then again, I didn't hear that many other orthos ;-)
Something could be wrong with Schiit's HEK. Three guys who spoke to Jason also mentioned this. That Schiit's HEK sounded really different from the units heard at the other meets. A few other Changstar members also noted this at the Brooks meet when we compared two other HEK sets. (Jeff, you might want to look into this or do something about it.)
Marv is the hd600 as fast but with less bass.
The HD600 might, just might be slightly faster. OJ and I have this wild or maybe not so wild theory that the HD650 driver is more damped than the HD600 driver. Less damped drivers usually sound a bit snappier and faster. OJ is doing an HD650 driver transplant on his HD600. We'll see what happens.
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Hahaha. I was waiting for you to say that! Since I did hand you my HD650s after all. Yes, I agree with you that the Ether was the best ortho in that room that I heard. But then again, I didn't hear that many other orthos ;-)
Something could be wrong with Schiit's HEK. Three guys who spoke to Jason also mentioned this. That Schiit's HEK sounded really different from the units heard at the other meets. A few other Changstar members also noted this at the Brooks meet when we compared two other HEK sets. (Jeff, you might want to look into this or do something about it.)
The HD600 might, just might be slightly faster. OJ and I have this wild or maybe not so wild theory that the HD650 driver is more damped than the HD600 driver. Less damped drivers usually sound a bit snappier and faster. OJ is doing an HD650 driver transplant on his HD600. We'll see what happens.
I didn't mind the HEK at the schiit table but I only heard it for 30 secs it had warm bass and inoffensive highs, I wouldn't buy but I wouldn't burn it either. I was actually talking about a different HEK, but I don't want to say more as those guys could get in trouble when they were kind enough to let me listen to the he560 +Liquid carbon and hear their conversation.
Still stand by my comment that I think the close back has better separation in the highs than the open, though. And if I built a stack (and obviously was a person that would pay $1500 for headphones*) I'd used that ether-C not open back.
Cool now I just worry about taming that HD600 spike you keep talking about without slowing down the driver.
*note I wouldn't spend $1500 on the hd800 either
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Question to those who've heard them: Would the Lyr 2 with LISST tubes be considered an upgrade to the Asgard 2?
Currently running the Asgard 2 and Bifrost Uber (going multi-bit whenever that's ready) into un-modded HD800s.
I've always been wary of mucking around with tubes.
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It's interesting (though unsurprising) that H-F's Ether C thread is full of oh-so-much-hype for this new headphone. I almost bought into it (though it doesn't matter since I can't get a new open headphone for another year or so). It's also interesting that the actual SchiitShow 2015 Impressions thread is much more subdued regarding the Ether C - most early posters don't share the sentiments as Jude regarding the Ether C as a more fleshed out headphone ("neutral plus", whatever that means). I've come to realize that there are only a few posters whose impressions I trust (both here and on H-F), but I still almost fell to the hype.
That said, the same people I trust seem mixed on the Ether C's (some love them, some think the Ether is better still), and I love marv's dose of reality in comparison. I still think the Ether C looks incredible (better than the open Ether's IMO), but I'm not sure if I have any need for a closed headphone at home (I already am getting the PM-3 for portable and office use). I really appreciate hearing all your impressions here. I can't wait to hear Anax's thoughts on all these new flagships over at Tyll's... maybe they can get a pre-production Ether C to include in the battle? :)
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Yeh HF are very good with the hype write ups which plays to the consumerist audience and yields them good returns.
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Yup - apologies for the confusion all; this is my error.
hm, I'm just as interested in what you are eating for dinner.
does that make me a merv perv?
p:0
and yes, it would appear we at the Boulder meet had:
Redacted^2
in our presence.
which is still not released.
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Thanks for the Mj2 impressions vs the Ragnarok and original Mjolnir Marv. You've provided points of reference that I'm very familiar with. The Mj2 could just be the amp I've been waiting for since offloading the Rag. Didn't expect it to match the qualities that make the Rag so great, but an improvement over the original MJ and the option to roll some glass is a tempting proposition.
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Multi-bit Gungnir only required 2-3 days to get up to speed. Keep in mind that Yggy when new required 7-10 days. Now it seems about 3-4 days, so it's likely the MB Gungnir would require even less after a certain time of usage. If you decide to leave it on, I'm sure the MB Gungnir sucks less wattage.
Interesting...this is for warm-up time and not burn-in time?
Seems like my budget has been blown up now. Gotta save up for the MB Gungnir.
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Hmmm at dat price MB gungnir sounds like a very good deal indeed (and it wont require me to buy a new equipment rack too)
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Are you two talking about the same Ether?
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Marv or anyone else, did you get a chance to talk to Dan (and possibly Jason) about the leak? How did Dan react?
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The Mr speaker guys where very apologetic. Anytime they brought up the incident the guy kind of hanged his head. Jason was pretty much over it that day.
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Marv or anyone else, did you get a chance to talk to Dan (and possibly Jason) about the leak? How did Dan react?
As far as the thread on HF, I guess a moderator, possibly Jude, came in the thread later that night and cleaned up the trail of spy pix exclusives that a few HF turds left. One turd referenced link to the google cached content, another turd followed up by directly posting pix from the cache. I'm calling them turds because I really don't know how the world has come to this - just no respect given that the original posts from MrSpeaker Employee were edited to indicate "deleted".
I didn't speak to Dan on the matter because I felt really bad for him. I heard that when he found out, he was absolutely mortified. Dan's a nice guy, and this is probably the last thing he would have ever wanted to happen. And yes, the perpetrator was hanging his head in shame.
Ravi, as you know, if someone in the industries we work in did that, even out of ignorance, they would get fired immediately. Despite who they may know.
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Yup, that's why I was wondering about the feeling in the room and what Dan might have to say.
A follow up: did anyone who attended in person feel it was awkward or strange for Mr. Speakers to be squatting at the Schiit event? Especially since they decided to steal the HF thunder with their own announcement the day before?
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yep it was weird especially since I like to be critical when evaluating and he was kind of just staring at me. But I kind of get it he was real proud of his headphones he wanted to see people's reactions.
For the most part Mike and Jason were working the room I didn't see them interact to much with the Mr. Speakers people. but since they looked like they were having fun so I think they just let it go.
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It's interesting (though unsurprising) that H-F's Ether C thread is full of oh-so-much-hype for this new headphone. I almost bought into it (though it doesn't matter since I can't get a new open headphone for another year or so). It's also interesting that the actual SchiitShow 2015 Impressions thread is much more subdued regarding the Ether C - most early posters don't share the sentiments as Jude regarding the Ether C as a more fleshed out headphone ("neutral plus", whatever that means). I've come to realize that there are only a few posters whose impressions I trust (both here and on H-F), but I still almost fell to the hype.
That said, the same people I trust seem mixed on the Ether C's (some love them, some think the Ether is better still), and I love marv's dose of reality in comparison. I still think the Ether C looks incredible (better than the open Ether's IMO), but I'm not sure if I have any need for a closed headphone at home (I already am getting the PM-3 for portable and office use). I really appreciate hearing all your impressions here. I can't wait to hear Anax's thoughts on all these new flagships over at Tyll's... maybe they can get a pre-production Ether C to include in the battle? :)
I donno if this was directed at me but let me try to clarify again.
I am not disagreeing with Marv and Anax.
the Ether-C>hd800 was out of the lyr 2. I was assuming most people have heard the lyr 2 with the hd800 but it's not that special. Similarly the ehter-c wasn't that great either but I did think that it was interesting to note that the highs had better soundstage separation where the instruments felt more distinct and 3d. That being said I never really recommended a schiit amp for orthos as I thought the sound was always to lean for orthos (the body and bass being two orthos traits I really like).
The peak Anax was talking about, I just called it sharpness and I did hear it out of the yggy/rag and bifrost/lyr 2 tube. It was less noticeable with the gungnir/mojo2 solid and was next to imperceivable with the mojo2 tube. When I tried it with the D/S bifrost/lyr2 solid I lasted 20 seconds before I had to take of the headphones. I never heard al green's voice so granting in my life.
the bass is also more rescessed than the open back. However I wouldn't call the open back ethers bass good ortho bass. Sound more like a 2.1 stereo speaker system with a crappy subwoofer with a bad cross over. It sounds disjointed from the rest of the audio response and very one note. Its there but it just thumps when it needs to be there, no real definition. So when the closed back pull it back I wasn't shedding any tears, what did make me sad though is that the mids got some of there body scooped out. However the closed back doesn't just pull back the bass it also makes them decay faster. Dan told me its because he wanted to get standing up bass right, I didn't listen to any stand up bass so I don't know if he succeeded.
so yeah I agree with Marv and Anax, but I do think the Ether-C works well with the MB Gungnir/mojo2 tube. The tube bloom and warmth pushes the bass foward and made it more pleasing and since it decayed faster didn't feel mushy, the open backs on the other hand did. With the warmth and more foward bass the mids got there most of there life back. My favorite mids? No, but not worst than any other head phone I had there. The balance setup, tubes, and R2R dac mitigated the sharp tremble to unnoticeable levels for me. Hope that clarifies things.
also at the meet I heard
enigma dharma
zmf omni
grillmod + focas-A pads he560
out of the cavallie crimson+dac19 so if anyone wants impressions let me know.
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Marv or anyone else, did you get a chance to talk to Dan (and possibly Jason) about the leak? How did Dan react?
Jason indicated that it was water under the bridge. Obviously, next time they do this, there would be changes.
Yup, that's why I was wondering about the feeling in the room and what Dan might have to say.
A follow up: did anyone who attended in person feel it was awkward or strange for Mr. Speakers to be squatting at the Schiit event? Especially since they decided to steal the HF thunder with their own announcement the day before?
Jason mentioned that Dan and them had talked about doing a joint, but at the time, Dan wasn't ready to release the now named Ether-C yet. But as Schiit went ahead to do their own thing, it looked like Dan was able to finish up whatever issues was plaguing the Ether-C at the time. And so yesterday happened.
Personally, I thought the Mr Speakers employee was releasing the Schiit info because a) the Ether-C was already being announced before the show by Head-fi, so why not have the Schiit info out as well, and b) he'd look cool to all the HF posters. Obviously the wrong call.
Also, I would have thought this would jeapordize any future Schiit shows. Putting these shows on costs money, and Schiit usually isn't in the business of doing things like this. So now the built in surprise factor in announcing this among a waiting crowd at the show is gone. Too bad the dumbfucks on HF who perpetuated in releasing and retelling the info during the press embargo wouldn't have figured that out, and then saying "oh, it's no big deal." I'd post that on HF, but I'm effectively banned. But I guess that's fitting.
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Question to those who've heard them: Would the Lyr 2 with LISST tubes be considered an upgrade to the Asgard 2?
Currently running the Asgard 2 and Bifrost Uber (going multi-bit whenever that's ready) into un-modded HD800s. I've always been wary of mucking around with tubes.
I don't think going to Lyr 2 with LIIST is worth it from Asgard 2. Would be too close to call and more a case of slightly different rather than better. The Asgard 2 is a really good solid-state amp for $299. It should be on the Leaderboard. I think the only reason it isn't is because people would further accuse us or me of being a Schiit shill.
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TBH, and I want to be clear that this has nothing... is absolutely nothing against Mr.Speakers, but I felt slightly weird-ed out with Mr.Speakers there for several reasons:
- The event as was advertised as a Schiit-Show. Not a Shiit / Mr.Speakers Joint Show. Setting proper expectations for the customer / attendee is paramount IMO. For these kinds of things, I don't like surprises.
- Following up on that thought, for a Schiit-Show (which was really more of a customer appreciation event), Mr.Speakers presence was more overwhelming than expected or wanted. Every table had Mr.Speakers Ether and Ether-C headphones. Every table had the Mr.Speakers writeup and measurements for the Ether-C. One of the Rag/Yggy stacks had both Mr.Speakers and his assistant's business cards in business card holders on top. Since I was expecting a "Schiit-Show", the back of my mind sort of goes WTF? Coupled with Jude's super front page announcement and glowing praise of the Ether-C on HF tying into this event, it felt like "ewww yuck, don't get your cooties on me" or like someone is trying to shove something in my face. Nobody likes that feeling. It's like how the fuck did the Schiit Show become a Jude/HF/Mr.Speakers circus show too? I know some other people felt the same way, but will never say it, except Ravi.
- As some of you guys pointed out, Jason and Mike were never in the room. That puts a lot less pressure on people in the room listening to the stuff - so they can more freely and openly talk about the gear. Dan was in the room a lot. I'm sure he wanted people to like his headphones; but that sort of puts a damper of discussion inside the room. Throwing out impressions to each other, re-listening for certain things, that's a big part of this hobby.
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I stand by my fuck you, Dan from the other thread. That's not how you treat a partner.
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A bit harsh, but I see how people would perceive it as such.
I don't know exactly was worked out between Schiit and Mr.Speakers, and I don't care to know; but this was Schiit's moment to shine with the surprise announcement of two and a half new products. It would have been completely fine had Jason himself made the announcement that Mr.Speakers was tagging along and open the podium to Dan, so Dan himself could have talked about his surprise.
That didn't happen; and the fact that Jude wrote a glowing praise introduction to the Ether C, and then pointed over to the Schiit-Show does smack a bit of opportunistic event hijacking. Again, I don't know exactly what was worked out, but as they say, perception is reality.
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Guess what Headfi posted at their frontpage:
Launching today at SchiitShow in Marina del Rey, Cailfornia is a new closed-back flagship planar magnetic headphone from MrSpeakers called the ETHER C.
Got to ask Jude: Is this a SchiitShow or MrSpeakershow? :spank:
Headfi did not post any writeup on Schiit's new products and just sidementions schiit show? Stealing Schiit's thunder imho.
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Anyways, a few notes on the Lyr with LISST and Mojo 2 with LISST as I promised I would follow up. BTW, I believe Anaxilus and OJ may be doing a write-up on this event for Tyll, so be sure to check Inner Fidelity in the next few days.
In a nutshell, I prefer the Mjolnir 2 with tubes and the Lyr 2 with the SSTs. I'll keep this short as usual:
- Tubes (real) take the Mjolnir 2 to the next level. While the real tubes shift the tonal balance to "more fun" relative to the SSTs, i.e. more bass and more present mid-treble, tubes really do liven up and increase the "technicalities" of the Mjolnir: more resolving, increased macro dynamics, more gradations of small volume contrasts, and more open. In essence, more engaging, the sort of engaging that makes you NOT want to put the headphones down. In my opinion (and these words are borrowed from someone else), the Mjolnir was always meant to have tubes. I wouldn't worry about the "treble" comment. It's relative to the SSTs and it's not edgy (we are talking about tubes after all), and it doesn't preclude the use of HD800s. The tonal balance comments do need to be tempered by the fact that I don't know what tubes were used. There is a huge selection of tubes what will work, and I know you can get all sorts of different tunings with the 6922s. Finally, I'll say this again: Lyr or Vali fans would very well served by upgrading to the Mjolnir 2. [I'm actually very tempted to pick one up for myself]
- I know a lot of people like the Lyr 2 because of its bass, warmth, and slam and I totally respect this view. However, the SSTs actually make the Lyr 2 more neutral sounding. The SSTs tighten up the Lyr 2's sound, provide a better transient response, a faster sound with more delineated lines and articulation. This is my personal preference, and to me (again, borrowing words from someone else), the Lyr was always meant to have SSTs. My view is that the tubes for in Lyr 2 don't actually do anything other than offer more bass and more slam. The Lyr 2 isn't as technically capable of as the Mjolnir 2, so the good things that tubes normally bring to the table (non-mist clarity, resolution, microdynamics) isn't as evident. So in this case, I'll take more control and more precision rather than more warmth and slam.
Hope that makes sense and doesn't make anyone mad. In the end, we all have more choice.
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Hope that makes sense and doesn't make anyone mad. In the end, we all have more choice.
Schiit has really made a coup. If the LISSTs really act like true SS components, Schiit has made a compelling argument to buy their Schiit. "Buy this amplifier. You can try it with tubes or run it as solid-state. Base price is $449 with tubes or $529 with both!" The ability to try both sides at a very reasonable price.
I wonder is the LISST would work on other tube amps.
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I wonder is the LISST would work on other tube amps.
NO. REALLY BAD IDEA.
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It's like how the fuck did the Schiit Show become a Jude/HF/Mr.Speakers circus show too?
"If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas." -- Ben Franklin or Seneca
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NO. REALLY BAD IDEA.
Good to know!
LISST is just a strange little thing.
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Marv, I know you think highly of the Valhalla 2 for high impedance dynamics. How does the Mjolnir 2 with tubes compare?
I'm also curious what the LISSTs would do for the Val2. Schiit site says they'll work with a "but why?" Maybe swing the Val2 in a direction that doesn't sound as good?
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What I've gathered from the photos is that audiophiles are not a particularly photogenic bunch.
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I wonder is the LISST would work on other tube amps.
NO. REALLY BAD IDEA.
We should start a betting pool for when the first complaint arises of someone blowing up their non-Schiit amp with the LISSTs.
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@marv:
Does this make Schiit Mjolnir 2 one of the best sub$1k tube/SS head/pre-amps around?
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I'm also curious what the LISSTs would do for the Val2. Schiit site says they'll work with a "but why?" Maybe swing the Val2 in a direction that doesn't sound as good?
Val2 + LISST = Lyr2 in price
Also, a solid-state Val2 would probably be worse than the Asgard 2 and cost almost twice as much. If you already have all the pieces, might as well try.
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I donno if this was directed at me but let me try to clarify again.
I am not disagreeing with Marv and Anax.
Sorry, I was not trying to call you or anyone else out :) I just meant there are just a few users at H-F whose opinions I value and trust (a couple of them post here too), and some of them really enjoy the Ether C but others are still undecided. I appreciate your impressions and would love to hear more! Intriguing that your comparisons between the Ether open and closed contradict Jude's gushing words (but guess whose opinion I trust more).
also at the meet I heard
enigma dharma
zmf omni
grillmod + focas-A pads he560
out of the cavallie crimson+dac19 so if anyone wants impressions let me know.
Yes, please post impressions, especially of the Dharma! Given my self-imposed $1500 price limit, the headphones I'm most interested to replace my HE-400i are the Dharma, Ether (open/closed) and "new" T1 (if it really is a stark improvement over the original).
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- I know a lot of people like the Lyr 2 because of its bass, warmth, and slam and I totally respect this view. However, the SSTs actually make the Lyr 2 more neutral sounding. The SSTs tighten up the Lyr 2's sound, provide a better transient response, a faster sound with more delineated lines and articulation. This is my personal preference, and to me (again, borrowing words from someone else), the Lyr was always meant to have SSTs. My view is that the tubes for in Lyr 2 don't actually do anything other than offer more bass and more slam. The Lyr 2 isn't as technically capable of as the Mjolnir 2, so the good things that tubes normally bring to the table (non-mist clarity, resolution, microdynamics) isn't as evident. So in this case, I'll take more control and more precision rather than more warmth and slam.
Marv,
to offer (or repeat) a bit of a counter point: at the CCCP Boulder meet, it seemed that a majority of us "preferred" the Lyr2 with real tubes over the LISST in that real tubes provided a wider soundstage, more air in space and better instrument separation.
that was all evident to me after about 10 minutes of back and forth.
so, not all Lyr2 lovers are in it for the bass, warmth and slam. but (also) for the reasons above.
of course, this was with NOS Ediswan CV2492 tubes. which are significantly better than stock tubes.
and some presentation likely could have been improved further with other NOS Philips SQ or Telefunken or Siemens CCa tubes.
but at the CCCP meet we kept it to a simpler "fair fight". :)p17
all that being said, I'm dying to hear a Mjol2 with my NOS Siemens CCa. yet seems way overkill for a work office set up.
luckily all my $ went to the Black Widow, so that Mjol2 is going to wait awhile.....
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Would love to hear about Mjol 2 vs Black Widow
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Would love to hear about Mjol 2 vs Black Widow
me too!
buy me a Mjol 2 and I'll satisfy your curiosity.
:)p13
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Yeah, I'm talking about whatever stock tubes are with the Lyr these days. I'm sort of making the assumption that most people who buy the Lyr wouldn't effectively double the price of the amp by trying and testing a huge combination of tubes. I hate tube rolling more than most people would think.*
Not disagreeing that tubes in the Lyr don't bring out some of these positive qualities, but more like they don't bring enough of them to offset the bassy warmth (with real tubes) of the Lyr, which is excessive for my taste.
* After all, who do you think wrote what's below on the EC website FAQ?
Q: What do you think of the bulbous wolf-[redickted] shaped Le Fevre XTC1983 tube from 1919?
A: We recommend going to www.changstar.com (http://www.changstar.com) or www.head-fi.org (http://www.head-fi.org) for tube advice. Tubes are a very personal choice.
I believe the answer in an earlier draft was something along the lines of "How the fuck should we know?" Judi nixed that line.
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Anyways, a few notes on the Lyr with LISST and Mojo 2 with LISST as I promised I would follow up. BTW, I believe Anaxilus and OJ may be doing a write-up on this event for Tyll, so be sure to check Inner Fidelity in the next few days.
In a nutshell, I prefer the Mjolnir 2 with tubes and the Lyr 2 with the SSTs. I'll keep this short as usual:
- Tubes (real) take the Mjolnir 2 to the next level. While the real tubes shift the tonal balance to "more fun" relative to the SSTs, i.e. more bass and more present mid-treble, tubes really do liven up and increase the "technicalities" of the Mjolnir: more resolving, increased macro dynamics, more gradations of small volume contrasts, and more open. In essence, more engaging, the sort of engaging that makes you NOT want to put the headphones down. In my opinion (and these words are borrowed from someone else), the Mjolnir was always meant to have tubes. I wouldn't worry about the "treble" comment. It's relative to the SSTs and it's not edgy (we are talking about tubes after all), and it doesn't preclude the use of HD800s. The tonal balance comments do need to be tempered by the fact that I don't know what tubes were used. There is a huge selection of tubes what will work, and I know you can get all sorts of different tunings with the 6922s. Finally, I'll say this again: Lyr or Vali fans would very well served by upgrading to the Mjolnir 2. [I'm actually very tempted to pick one up for myself]
- I know a lot of people like the Lyr 2 because of its bass, warmth, and slam and I totally respect this view. However, the SSTs actually make the Lyr 2 more neutral sounding. The SSTs tighten up the Lyr 2's sound, provide a better transient response, a faster sound with more delineated lines and articulation. This is my personal preference, and to me (again, borrowing words from someone else), the Lyr was always meant to have SSTs. My view is that the tubes for in Lyr 2 don't actually do anything other than offer more bass and more slam. The Lyr 2 isn't as technically capable of as the Mjolnir 2, so the good things that tubes normally bring to the table (non-mist clarity, resolution, microdynamics) isn't as evident. So in this case, I'll take more control and more precision rather than more warmth and slam.
Hope that makes sense and doesn't make anyone mad. In the end, we all have more choice.
I agree with this. I prefer the Lyr2 with SSTs and Mjolnir with tubes. Though I have to say I've heard the Lyr2 sound better with the HD800 than what I heard at the show. It made me wonder what the tubes were in the Lyr2 or if they were going bad. It sounded just a bit off from what I remember.
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As someone who listens purely with HD800s and adores the air and spaciousness that they provide - I'm interested in how the Mojo2 with tubes sounds compared to the Black Widow for those headphones. I'm not really interested in which absolutely sounds better (and I'm sure marvey wouldn't comment on that) just what different qualities they bring to the table. At the moment I'm in the list for a BW but secretly yearn for a Studio Jr. whenever that may arise. The Mojo may be a good interim investment while i wait.
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...I'm interested in how the Mojo2 with tubes sounds compared to the Black Widow for those headphones.
THIS. PLZ.
me too!
buy me a Mjol 2 and I'll satisfy your curiosity.
:)p13
That sounds like an excellent deal. In fairness you should ship me your BW for free.
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As someone who listens purely with HD800s and adores the air and spaciousness that they provide - I'm interested in how the Mojo2 with tubes sounds compared to the Black Widow for those headphones. I'm not really interested in which absolutely sounds better (and I'm sure marvey wouldn't comment on that) just what different qualities they bring to the table. At the moment I'm in the list for a BW but secretly yearn for a Studio Jr. whenever that may arise. The Mojo may be a good interim investment while i wait.
Also agreed. I think I'm still going to wait for the Yggy over the MB Gungnir but the Mjolnir 2 with good tubes does sound like an interesting proposition, as opposed to the BW. Might fix some of the nitpicks I had with the original MJ and HD800.
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Haven't done direct comparison obviously, but BW is a lot smoother and therein a better match for HD800. Mojo2 still has that hyper-dynamic, kinda spitty attack that can be startling and fatiguing.
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Haven't done direct comparison obviously, but BW is a lot smoother and therein a better match for HD800. Mojo2 still has that hyper-dynamic, kinda spitty attack that can be startling and fatiguing.
I actually liked that it worked well for orthos, but I can see how that would suck for dynamics
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Haven't done direct comparison obviously, but BW is a lot smoother and therein a better match for HD800. Mojo2 still has that hyper-dynamic, kinda spitty attack that can be startling and fatiguing.
You think this applies for the HD600/650 as well? Regardless, I was thinking about the Mojo2, but perhaps I'd want something a bit smoother? I really like a very dynamic, powerful sound, but not if it's going to make the treble rough, spitty, too sharp, or whatever. Maybe I'll still need an Eddie Current amp down the road.
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Hans
I used marvs hd650 with the mojo 2 solid to listen to Alice in chains acustic and the tremble was just really fast didn't really go that high.
The tubes make the mojo2 have more forgiving highs, so I don't think you have to worry but I wasn't able to use the hd650, had to give it back to Marv.
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You think this applies for the HD600/650 as well? Regardless, I was thinking about the Mojo2, but perhaps I'd want something a bit smoother? I really like a very dynamic, powerful sound, but not if it's going to make the treble rough, spitty, too sharp, or whatever. Maybe I'll still need an Eddie Current amp down the road.
Maybe for you Hans. I could easily roll with that sound with a 600.
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You think this applies for the HD600/650 as well? Regardless, I was thinking about the Mojo2, but perhaps I'd want something a bit smoother? I really like a very dynamic, powerful sound, but not if it's going to make the treble rough, spitty, too sharp, or whatever. Maybe I'll still need an Eddie Current amp down the road.
I think what you're looking for might be a Cavalli LG...maybe.
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OK, I know I'm not the only person that is still curious and not 100% clear on this. Anyone know how the Val2 and Mojo2 compare w/ high impedance cans? In what ways are they different, better, about the same, or worse? Just asking because of how highly recommended the Val2 is w/ high impedance headphones.
Gimme a dick slap and tell me to look closer if I missed something.
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Marv can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Val2 will pretty much always have more of a smooth and refined character inherent to it's sound whereas the Mjolnir2 will be much more capable in transparency and most all the technicalities while taking its original aggressive treble and sonic character down a notch into a more refined but very dynamic and clearer signature.
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Just asking because of how highly recommended the Val2 is w/ high impedance headphones.
Vali 2 is good with high Z cans. Vali 2 is bad with efficient cans (noise) and inefficient orthos (low output Z).
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So, if we were to compare the two amps just in regards to treble presentation (aggressiveness, perceived quantity, roughness, etc. etc.), and assuming, say, same tube setup, what would you think?
Also, is the Mojo2 warmer in tone than the Val2? I saw several people mention it as being warmish when paired with MB Gungnir.
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Wait, valhalla or vali? WTf is a Val2?
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Valhalla 2, sorry. Should also mention that the comments about Mojo 1 and 2 being very dynamic is something I'm looking for in an amp.
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Doh. Vali 2 was made for high Z cans.
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Are you hinting at an upcoming Vali 2 launch? :) I think you said that twice.
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I guess I never thought to ask this.
I think my love for Gungnir's intensity is well known, does the GMB maintain that same intensity? I dont really recall people saying the same thing about Yggy.
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I guess I never thought to ask this.
I think my love for Gungnir's intensity is well known, does the GMB maintain that same intensity? I dont really recall people saying the same thing about Yggy.
Gumby's intensity is 5% less than Gungnir (which hit hard almost like a Gen V). Maybe power needed to be rerouted to the DSP or the shields from the warp drive.
Yggy does hit hard like the Gen V, but it's not bassy. I don't think anyone mentioned this aspect about Yggy because it was taken for granted.
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Gumby's intensity is 5% less than Gungnir (which hit hard almost like a Gen V). Maybe power needed to be rerouted to the DSP or the shields from the warp drive.
Yggy does hit hard like the Gen V, but it's not bassy. I don't think anyone mentioned this aspect about Yggy because it was taken for granted.
Thanks for the info Marv, can't wait for your review. I have to live vicariously through other people while I wait the two and a half weeks or so for my Gungnir to get to Schiit, get upgraded, and get back to me. No DAC for 3 weeks is pretty rough.
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Is Purrin reviewing the GMB? When? Can't wait... headbang headbang headbang popcorn popcorn popcorn :)p1 :)p1 :)p1
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Multi-bit Gungnir only required 2-3 days to get up to speed. Keep in mind that Yggy when new required 7-10 days. Now it seems about 3-4 days, so it's likely the MB Gungnir would require even less after a certain time of usage. If you decide to leave it on, I'm sure the MB Gungnir sucks less wattage.
I guess I'll entertain questions for now if any.
Can you give quick comparison between GMB and Master 7? and Yggy if possible?
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Master 7 vs. Yggy comparison: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2007.msg54840.html#msg54840 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2007.msg54840.html#msg54840) (This is Master 7 with the crappy VIA chip. AGD recently upgraded USB to Amanero which most likely is better.)
Super comprehensive review of Yggy vs. Gungnir coming up because of popular demand. Please wait a few minutes.
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Gungnir wins because you can buy one of the black chassis Gungnir and buy the $500 upgrade. Everyone knows black components are 25% better.