CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone, IEM, and Other Audio Related Discussion => Topic started by: Judeus on August 19, 2015, 08:44:03 PM
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Where i live i dont have access to trying a pair out. The consnsus on them seems pretty mixed.
Two of my fav cans are the hd800 and he560
Is it an upgrade from either of them?
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Ive heard HE-1000 with Sim Audio Moon 430HA. I own LCD-3F and just got HE-6, cause HE-1000 doesnt have that bass impact, and to me they sound kinda distant, which is probably ok if ur used to HD800.
Personally I dont enjoy that.
But I think everyone can agree that they are definitly not worth 3k.
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Yeah 3k is whats killing me
If they were 2k i would have bought already but that extra gee just killa it.
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I blame astell and kern honestly and their inflation bullshit
I feel companys are just price gouging now to see what they can get away with
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Is there something wrong with the HE1000 thread we already have? :-\
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I've had the HE560 for over a year and now the HE1000. If you like the HE560 the HE1000 is that on steroids. It has soundstage closer to the HD800 and is much more open than the HE560. The treble is slightly more laid back and smoother than the HE560 and the bass is more extended. It made the HE560 redundant for me as the HE1000 is better in every way so I sold it.
Compared to the HE6, the HE1000 has better imaging, much larger soundstage, more laid back treble, better bass extension, better layering and is also less visceral with a tad less impact to the sound. Comfort is miles better.
Is it worth 3k? That's tough. All of the flagship headphones are overpriced IMO. And this one especially. But it does have a ton of attributes in one headphone that you can't get anywhere else. The very open 3D soundstage and imaging coupled with the best ortho bass makes it hard to go back to other headphones. I kept mine, I really like it.
Buy them from a place that offers returns and try them out for a week or so. It took me that long to figure out its strengths and you'll have a good idea if it's worth the price to you.
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Is it worth 3k? That's tough. All of the flagship headphones are overpriced IMO. And this one especially. But it does have a ton of attributes in one headphone that you can't get anywhere else. I kept mine, I really like it.
That's a good way to put it. I know the HEK has been received well here, but most went back to their regular reference headphones, and I totally understand why. While very expensive, and let's be honest, a bit overpriced, the HEK serves a specific interesting niche, in circumstances not all that different from another poor value headphone, the Abyss. Such is the price of entry.
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What's your opinion now that you've had it for a while? Do you consider it your reference headphone?
Personally week one for me was a tossup and I was tempted to return it, but after some more (brain) burn-in I do see why they can charge what they do for it (not to mention all the R&D and manufacturing that thin of a driver). I go through and try a lot of headphones but like to keep just one. And the HE1000 is the best jack of all trades I've found for the music I like (with the HE6 a close second for sound, but a very long distance away for comfort).
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Funny story about the price of the HEKs...
When Fang demo'ed these at CES, he was asking people for opinions on pricing. He said he was going to settle around $2k, which seems reasonable.
Then Moon Audio randomly creates a pre-order page for the HEKs for $2500, which led Fang to believe people would pay more for the HEKs...
I personally wish the price did end up at $2k... Makes it a much less painful buy...
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I heard a couple pairs. Much, MUCH more enjoyable to me than the HE560. Tone was overall fairly good, if a touch warm in the lower half, but with good impact. Really nice bass and mids. Treble was almost there but had a bit of a rough quality to it. Didn't get a chance to try the toilet paper mod. It's not so much that the treble was hard to listen to, like the HE560 (oh god, the pain), but just didn't sound particularly refined or coherent to my ears. Made it hard for me to really dig deep into the music. One pair sounded better than the other in this regard but lacked some of the low-end impact in comparison.
I dunno, I thought they were vastly overpriced and sounded more competitive with headphones below the $1k price point. A stock HD800 from the modded Super 7, even if still a bit bright for me, just sounded like it was in a whole different league.
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I surely did not think they were worth 3k or even 2k for the matter. I rate both the modded HD800s and modded HE-6s significantly higher than the HEK.
As a consumer, the only way to discourage grossly overpriced products for the sound quality they offer is to not buy them. Just like HEK, the Abyss or Audeze are in that category. I admit I am first hand guilty on one or more occasions in the past. There are many other ridiculously overpriced headphones for the performance (Ultrasones, Grados anyone?) but they are not even worth the attention of commenting on them.
However if one is fancying this type of sound, surely that's all that matters... just make sure to listen what the above mentioned headphones can do on a good rig, compared to the HEK if possible.
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I think it sounds really damn well-rounded and capable with increased earpad angling + enclosure damping (ala shelf liner), both minor mods.
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Further angled thicker pads surely agreed on this. I mentioned it from my early impressions.
However what is achieved with enclosure damping / shelf liner type?
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Further angled thicker pads surely agreed on this. I mentioned it from my early impressions.
However what is achieved with enclosure damping / shelf liner type?
I feel it partly remedies the treble incoherence that HE1K sometimes exhibits with female vocals (the same treble trait as HE560, but less pronounced here), thought I would try it when I saw the TP mod Marv posted on the HE1Ks he measured.
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I had a couple hit/miss experiences. The first time I heard it (Canjam?) was really lackluster. Then I gave it a go months later at a different show with a different source and wow, it really impressed.
Ended up getting a beta pair and I'm really pleased with it. Pretty expensive, but honestly my favorite headphone to date (minus Nerdling's R10 which I don't think I'll be getting my hands on anytime soon). The bass and soundstage just sit right for me. HiFiMAN offered to exchange my pair for a production pair, but I haven't taken them up on it since I'm worried they might have changed something for the worse or that I might get a crappier sounding unit.
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I surely did not think they were worth 3k or even 2k for the matter. I rate both the modded HD800s and modded HE-6s significantly higher than the HEK.
What are your main music preferences? I think that's important when considering headphone tastes.
The HD800s just never did it for me for the types of music I like to listen to (electronic, which has a lot of bass layering & details). Although I appreciate them technically and think they're excellent if not the best for acoustic and orchestral music. The HE6 are superb with what I like to listen to, but with weight and comfort issues along with a fatiguing treble. I found the HE1K to best the HE6 in most areas technically except for impact/viscerality. I think $2k for the HE1K is a solid buy and fits more in line with Hifimans value prop. than the current pricing.
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I listen to a wide array of genres. From small ensembles classical, symphonies, opera, to acoustic music, modern jazz, rock, metal, or even some EDM.
Ideally I would prefer to have good all-arounder headphones, since I use them a lot during work time and would not want to have to swap to another pair because of the genre changing. But that said, I really appreciate specialist headphones that can do some genres extremely well, even if they kind of suck with others (for example: HD800s). Both the HE-6s and HD800s are bitches. They need time/attention for modding and system matching etc. Fortunately with creative input from fellow members, there are many options to do that, for both. Perhaps in time there will be some great mods for the HEK too, however from what I tried and heard, the drivers / magnets themselves have limitations. The unusual cup shape is not particularly helpful either.
I don't think the HEK are actually technically better than the HE-6s. Not transparent enough. Their signature is strong and their politeness/softness is a colouration that's always there with everything and anything. Also like the LCD-3 not very good for analytically comparing gear either. They are decent/good long-distance cruisers for background undisturbed relaxed listening though.
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I'd buy them in a heartbeat if they was 1,5-2k actually, just for the comfort and being able to just sit down and listen for many many hours.
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Miles more comfortable than HE-6? Not when you're using Vegan pads and have the headband bent to the shape of your skull.
If that's not comfortable, you might want to consider neck strengthening exercises :p
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I get hotspot on my head like I do with Audeze, but it takes a couple of hours instead of 45 mins like with Audeze...
Maybe my head doesnt like leather... But they could have made thicker padding...
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Miles more comfortable than HE-6? Not when you're using Vegan pads and have the headband bent to the shape of your skull.
Actually, I couldn't agree more. My HE-6s went from least comfortable headphone I owned to most comfortable with the Vegan pads. It is a little heavy, but meh, not an issue for me.
I think the HEK is not really worth it. I'd rather have an HD600/650, HE-6, HD800 or Stax instead.
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Actually, I couldn't agree more. My HE-6s went from least comfortable headphone I owned to most comfortable with the Vegan pads. It is a little heavy, but meh, not an issue for me.
I think the HEK is not really worth it. I'd rather have an HD600/650, HE-6, HD800 or Stax instead.
Ha! For the price of an HE1K you can pretty much buy an HD800, HE-6 and an HD600/650 when on sale. Damn.
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Miles more comfortable than HE-6? Not when you're using Vegan pads and have the headband bent to the shape of your skull.
If that's not comfortable, you might want to consider neck strengthening exercises :p
Yep, miles. For me. I haven't tried any of the mods. I know you're semi-joking on the neck exercises, but I've had the similar weighted HE500 for a few years and they are perfectly fine and comfortable for the first hour or casual listening but I use them at my work desk for marathon sessions. Do you wear your HE6 for 4-8 hours a day everyday? That's what I do, and I think a minority can claim they can do that comfortably with the older Hifimans. In any case I don't think the HE1K is worth upgrading if you love the HE6 sound AND are ok with the comfort. But it was worth twice the price to me buying new based on the technical advantages I appreciated on the HE1K over the HE6, the less fatiguing treble and comfort. Still crazy $$ but consider many can spend $1.5k or more on a questionable or barely perceivable upgrade in sound quality in DACs or amps that decision doesn't seem THAT crazy.
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I was also thinking, for price/performance of all the headphones I've heard I don't think they're really that bad despite being one of the most expensive headphones I've tried. I'd put it like (all IMO of course) - from best value to worst:
HE-500 (at current prices)
MAD DOG
HD650
HE-560 / HE-400i / HE-6
LCD-2
HD800
HE1000
LCD-3
SR-007 / SR-009 (when factoring an amp, and my signature preferences)
ETHER
Also heard the Abyss and they did not impress at all and would be last on this list, except I don't think I figured out a good fit in the short time I tried it and didn't give it the fair chance, so leaving it off.
Just a datapoint to help the original posters question.
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Please allow to include a version of this based on EU sound quality/pricing (ok SR-009s PJ priced and SR-007s used value):
HD800 > HE-6 > SR-009 > SR-007s MK1 >> LCD-3 > HEK >= LCD-2 > HE-500
This is not factoring an equivalently capable stat amp. That's when there's a bit of a problem.
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I can easily wear them for 4-6 hours. Take a 5 min breather in between to let my ears get some fresh air but no uncomfort because of weight.
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Please allow to include a version of this based on EU pricing/sound quality (ok SR-009s PJ priced and SR-007s used value):
HD800 > HE-6 > SR-009 > SR-007s MK1 >> LCD-3 > HEK >= LCD-2 > HE-500
How much higher are Hifimans pricing in EU vs USA? That's funny I have HE-500 as best value and you have it as last. Just goes to show how variable YMMV is. At $499 USD new, Amazon Prime - I really do think they are the best value headphones on the list. Your HD800 top value pick is technically much better in many ways, but not three times the price better, which is why I put the value of the HD800 in the middle.
I also consider the HEK to be a MUCH worse value than the HE-500 but you have it ahead of it.
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It's sound quality/value. HD800s being EU made, are cheaper than in the USA comparative to the others. I bought my HD800s for the same price as the HE-6s, and yes the HD800s are better, despite some of their limitations.
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The longer "beta" headband on HE1K is needed for it to have the proper deep ergonomic fit, with that it's more comfortable than even HD800 (which is already a heck of a lot more comfortable than any existing old or new Hifiman) for me.
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The longer "beta" headband on HE1K is needed for it to have the proper deep ergonomic fit, with that it's more comfortable than even HD800 (which is already a heck of a lot more comfortable than any existing old or new Hifiman) for me.
Fang made a mistake by shortening the headband on the production model. Creates a pressure point. Not the right way to fix the sizing issue and ruins the possibility for deeper pads later on.
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Fang made a mistake by shortening the headband on the production model. Creates a pressure point. Not the right way to fix the sizing issue and ruins the possibility for deeper pads later on.
There was a post yesterday on headfi... that seemed to imply they are looking into release headband straps of different lengths. The owner was complaining about this hotspot issue to HFM customer service and they were like it'll be sorted out.
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It's painful to wear with vegans because there would be so much tension.
Sold Flipped them at a nice margin[editors note: added for comedic effect] already so I don't care anymore. I'll post my disassembly pics when I get the chance.
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It's painful to wear with vegans because there would be so much tension.
Sold Flipped them at a nice margin already so I don't care anymore. I'll post my disassembly pics when I get the chance.
zzz...
Are all of you guys flipping the beta units?
Kojaku flipped his for a shit ton, almost for retail. I'm honestly too lazy to care, but that's a really shitty thing to do.
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Kojaku flipped his for a shit ton, almost for retail. I'm honestly too lazy to care, but that's a really shitty thing to do.
I'm loathe to publicly disagree on this issue: it's a hornets' nest. I've always played by the rules and I wouldn't want anyone to think otherwise, but a free market makes more sense to me and you've already been paid.
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I'm loathe to publicly disagree on this issue: it's a hornets' nest. I've always played by the rules and I wouldn't want anyone to think otherwise, but a free market makes more sense to me and you've already been paid.
I'm not gonna stop other people from doing it...
It's just personally, I think it's a morally shitty thing to do.
Like for example:
I can get refurbished Nvidia Titan Zs for basically free since I have a friend who works there.
It just feels bad cheating the system if I start to flip those for near MSRP.
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I'm not gonna stop other people from doing it...
It's just personally, I think it's a morally shitty thing to do.
I'm sure there will be some "predatory" cases like the graphics card example, but that's not the typical case.
In the worst case here, let's say you made $2k selling at a "beta" price. If Sean sells for $3k, you're still ahead by $2k and he's up $1k. Both parties have benefitted from free trade and everyone should be happy.
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zzz...
Are all of you guys flipping the beta units?
Kojaku flipped his for a shit ton, almost for retail. I'm honestly too lazy to care, but that's a really shitty thing to do.
No, I traded for an HE-6 with some cash on top. Hardly a flip.
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No, I traded for an HE-6 with some cash on top. Hardly a flip.
Now you have a spare to start experimenting with shell transplants :)p1
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I blame astell and kern honestly and their inflation bullshit
I feel companys are just price gouging now to see what they can get away with
I know! It's almost like these people are in business to money or something.
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The Southerner did not FLIP them, he traded them for HE-6 (an upgrade btw). I changed his post as a joke because he was worried about being seen as a flipper.
But since we're on the topic, we really should be outraged that the MSRP is $3000 for $1000 sound.
Who the fuck cares what happens on the used market? It's a free market, or at least it should be.
hey Chairman Mao, since you're getting Titan Z's for free why don't you spread them around to us lowly peasants, eh?
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On the subject of flipping: I don't like people who take advantage of other people who don't know how much their gear is worth or has appreciated. Or people who take advantage of people who are willing to sell gear for cheap to brethren hobbyists, i.e. "Oh please! I'm a college student. I really love those headphones and will keep them forever!"
Obviously these cases involve some level of dishonesty and greed.
As far as our Southerner friend "flipping" his HEK, I don't give a crap. OhG didn't like it, he's free to do whatever he wants to it. It's not his fault that he can get a lot of money for the headphones. Blame Moon Audio for "testing" the market at $2.5k with the bogus early for sale page. Blame HF'ers for willing to spend that much. Blame Jude.
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Might as well blame Drake too :&
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Add me on the list for a free Titan Z, my GT610 is aging ungracefully