CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Marvey on October 20, 2012, 06:06:48 PM
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The RD2 (Anax 3.0) mod is not available yet and there is no ETA. PM Analixus for more info on status. [Don't PM me, I just take measurements]. In the meantime the RD1 (Anax 2.0) mod is quite effective:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,497.0.html (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,497.0.html)
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,497.msg9987.html#msg9987 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,497.msg9987.html#msg9987)
New upcoming HD800 mod... Rabid Dawg ][
Just teasing you guys. No bullshit. Look ma, no 5/6k peak? Compare to prior mods or stock HD800 measurements.
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=589.0;attach=2469;image)
Link to build list here: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2043.0.html
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Something seems fishy! :shark:
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No tricks. It's legit. Anax worked on some stuff and eliminated the hardness of the HD800. It's a still bright and hyper-resolving headphone. But yup, no more of the glare and hardness.
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p:0
It looks faster/cleaner too.
Compared to stock:
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/9/95/958ed40c_HD800.txt.jpeg)
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Nice work Mike!! :)p5
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This calls for- http://shiiiit.com/
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Wow.. this looks nice!
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Very Nice! :money:
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That looks amazing. I bet it sounds even better than it looks :-00
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Who makes these mods?
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Want!
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This one actually interests me since it is much more than a small change.
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Thx guys. There are still a few minor nit picks I want to iron out. The good news is I think there is still a bit more room for improvement and refinement. The bad news is I'm considering bringing this a commercial as a kit w/ three selectable levels for user preference. So further pics and templates will likely be withheld to the general public. There will be accommodations made for Ye Pirates of course!
:ship:
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Thx guys. There are still a few minor nit picks I want to iron out. The good news is I think there is still a bit more room for improvement and refinement. The bad news is I'm considering bringing this a commercial as a kit w/ three selectable levels for user preference. So further pics and templates will likely be withheld to the general public. There will be accommodations made for Ye Pirates of course!
:ship:
Very cool. I may re-buy one to try this, the brightness/glare was just too much for regular use.
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No qualms with the move to make this a commercial venture. A lot of time has obviously gone into it and you guys did share findings and mods prior to this iteration. Let us know when the kits are good to go, I'll be a guinea pig.
edit: please do not call the final product "Rabid Dawg".
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I designed this: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?1bzm4uj16v4bb2y for an HD800 owner a while ago but never received feedback if it works or not.
Don't own one, so cannot try it myself.
Anybody willing to try it ?
By the looks of the results of the Analixus mods (= rabid dawg ?) I personally would prefer that solution over the filter circuit that must go between a source and HP amp.
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For this improvement you should be compensated...
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Thx guys. There are still a few minor nit picks I want to iron out. The good news is I think there is still a bit more room for improvement and refinement. The bad news is I'm considering bringing this a commercial as a kit w/ three selectable levels for user preference. So further pics and templates will likely be withheld to the general public. There will be accommodations made for Ye Pirates of course!
Obviously, this had to come up at some point, you americans :& :)p13
Looks fantastic though, I could not dream of doing such cleaning using only simulation! Hats of to you guys.
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Lemme know when you're ready to go and I'll do a review.
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What.. is.. this...
Staring at the decay plot.. I can almost see Jesus smiling back at me...
This should be called HD800 - Savior's Edition.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TWi1eLwTz0k/UFs3V84r7rI/AAAAAAAAEHA/NhWqUtO9Bek/s1600/JesusSmiling.jpg)
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I doubt I will ever own an HD800, but you continue to impress me with your work on them!
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Anax,
do you mean you plan to sell the mod kit as a DIY or that you will mod the HPs yourself, like LFF's Paradox?
Selling the DIY mod kit instead of sharing the templates would actually be better for me since, living in Europe, finding the very same materials you use is next to impossible.
Wow, can't wait to hear the mod!
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What's the status on this? Looking forward to giving it a try. That decay improvement in particular is really something.
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Getting there. Been real busy w/ real work the past few weeks and the next. Just a few tweaks and finalizing production/packaging.
@frenchchemist
Yes, it will be a DIY kit you pop in yourself. Trying to make it as user friendly as possible. Doing it Barney style as we said in the military. Maybe call it the Barney mod. :)p1
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRY-WjvpAi5rQS26I8I5W89jIFITDLEQzdgGEtq3SZzlX94OBWP)
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What about Fred, Wilma and Betty? p;)
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Getting there. Been real busy w/ real work the past few weeks and the next. Just a few tweaks and finalizing production/packaging.
@frenchchemist
Yes, it will be a DIY kit you pop in yourself. Trying to make it as user friendly as possible. Doing it Barney style as we said in the military. Maybe call it the Barney mod. :)p1
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRY-WjvpAi5rQS26I8I5W89jIFITDLEQzdgGEtq3SZzlX94OBWP)
Any idea of price yet?
I'm interested as well.
JJ
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[size=78%]Any idea of price yet?[/size]
I'm interested as well.
JJ
I have a rough idea but don't want to commit until everything is finalized. I'll say it will be in the two figures which is less than three and more than free. :D
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:thumb
:thumb
:money: (oh wait, that isn't a beer… headbang)
JJ
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I'd be in for this. 2 figures sounds fair :)
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Will I still feel a tiny bit like a DIY'er if the stickers are already cut for me? :)p14
2 figures is cool. I'd buy you a bottle of something anyway! :)p5
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Will I still feel a tiny bit like a DIY'er if the stickers are already cut for me? :)p14
2 figures is cool. I'd buy you a bottle of something anyway! :)p5
Bottlehead amp builders consider themselves DIYers so why not.
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When will you be going live with this product? Let me know.
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Got to hear the latest iteration of the mods at the head-fi meet in Coronado yesterday. Got my attention. I can haz black foam plz?
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Yuppers, working on it. ;)
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Any point to doing the old Anax mod before the rabid dog becomes available? Just wondering if it would be interesting to hear the evolution? I've been sitting on the materials to do the mod for a while...
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Sure, just make them reversible. Use a cotton shirt or towel to mitigate the adhesive a bit.
One thing we've noticed too is that not all mods are the same, despite the templates and available information. We've seen too many 'similar' materials used and in various forms and applications referred to as the 'mod'. Hopefully the kit will provide more standardization for more uniform impressions.
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So I'm waiting with baited breath for news.
And since it's been just short of a month since the last 'report' and with xmas looming around the corner, I thought I'd sneak a look in here and rattle the cage, so to speak. :)p1 :)p3
Any news? popcorn
JJ :)p5
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Signed up just for this... Pretty please more info, I'm guessing I wasn't the only guest ecstatic in anticipation.
popcorn
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Excellent dedication to this modification guys! I look forward to being an adopter of the modification.
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ahoy
How's it going in Santa's workshop?
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See: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,497.msg9987.html#msg9987
The RD version 1 mods above (includes instructions) still work very effectively.
RD version 2 has some issues with taking away from too much of the HD800s openness. We know what to do but haven't had time to address it. What we are looking to do is to make an easy DIY kit.
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See: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,497.msg9987.html#msg9987 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,497.msg9987.html#msg9987)
The RD version 1 mods above (includes instructions) still work very effectively.
RD version 2 has some issues with taking away from too much of the HD800s openness. We know what to do but haven't had time to address it. What we are looking to do is to make an easy DIY kit.
purrin... Got any tips on which materials to use. I turned all the mats in flat up-side-down, no worthy candidate. (Already have Anax 1.0, so it's just the perforated thingie I'm after).
And one more thing. Great that you're releasing it as a finished kit. Kudos!
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Send me a PM. I'll mail you some raw material.
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Send me a PM. I'll mail you some raw material.
How is the commercial Rabid Dog mod kit coming along? I would like to buy one ASAP! :)
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Coming along. It's been an incredibly busy last few months w/ work, holidays, CES, gear reviews/auditions, assisting product development, etc. Things should ramp up a bit quicker now.
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Coming along. It's been an incredibly busy last few months w/ work, holidays, CES, gear reviews/auditions, assisting product development, etc. Things should ramp up a bit quicker now.
headbang
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Coming along. It's been an incredibly busy last few months w/ work, holidays, CES, gear reviews/auditions, assisting product development, etc. Things should ramp up a bit quicker now.
Have you considered an "early-release" kit which simply has the raw materials, templates, and instructions? There are folks like me that would buy that and then use our own scissors :D
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I thought about it but the idea of it being messed up and having to deal w/ the negative press, unintended effects and warranty claims seems like a nightmare. The first DIY version already got some bad press from poorly implemented clones that in some cases made the problems worse. If something goes wrong, I prefer it to be my fault. Believe it or not, doing that sort of kit is actually more of a logistical nightmare for me based on the new material. So in a way, it's not really feasible as there is some nuance involved in the process that requires more than a pair of scissors. Just a little more patience.
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Great stuff! Looking forward to the finalized kit as well.
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I am still amazed that a company with large bank can't do the "mods" to their products that others have to come up with to make them better. I don't think it is money anymore. It's incompetence. Or they just don't give a shit about the sound anymore.
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I am still amazed that a company with large bank can't do the "mods" to their products that others have to come up with to make them better. I don't think it is money anymore. It's incompetence. Or they just don't give a shit about the sound anymore.
I think it's 33/33/33.
1) If they deny there is a fault, there is no fault
2) Costs/"Reputation"/Problems with incorporating the mod into the production line
3) Ignorance/stupidity
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Me too! It's often so surprisingly low a cost in terms of materials, but I guess it's an investment in time. A great pity really.
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Well, they can always do a quiet update.
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Well, they can always do a quiet update.
I don't think it would be quiet for long. Considering how easy it is to remove the dust covers.
But sure, they did quiet updates with the HEV90, twice. So why not?
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You could just taunt Sennheiser by just sending them a modified HD800...
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Lol, they may complain that its too dark :(
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Update?
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I'm thinking that I'm almost certainly buying an HD800 soon. I will be another +1 for whenever this kit comes out.
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After listening to a modded HD800 last weekend at Changfest, and several others, it is on my short list, of things I have to save up for by selling my blood. :)p13 Or maybe some of the closet full of stuff I need to let go of. All things must pass, right?
@Anax, my wife isn't so keen on the male gigolo thing, unless you want to be my "manager". :)p13 :-DD Then we can talk. :-\
But it is very much an amp dependent can. Not a rush to judgement purchase. IMO.
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One year huh. How much you want to bet on that? :)p8
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This is the answer to many prayers. It also may precipitate a major change in direction for me in my headphone acquisition and listening. With a truly high-caliber dynamic phone, there are sooo many different amp options, tube choices, etc. With electrostats, the options are few and god-awfully expensive. And based on what I've heard so far from my LCD-2, the Audeze planars are not a realistic alternative. The list of candidates with stellar sound potential narrows quickly, and you may be making one of the best, but so far flawed, designs viable. Thanks, and sign me up. ahoy
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Sign me up.
Would like to compare this with the Anax mod that Tyll was pushing.
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No tricks. It's legit. Anax worked on some stuff and eliminated the hardness of the HD800. It's a still bright and hyper-resolving headphone. But yup, no more of the glare and hardness.
Just pulled the trigger on a new pair of HD-800. Please put me on the list to purchase this mod. Thanks. ahoy
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Just pulled the trigger on a new pair of HD-800. Please put me on the list to purchase this mod. Thanks. ahoy
Let me know if you want me to send you some modding material to do a Rabid Dog (2.0) in the meantime... Marv sent me more than enough, and sharing is caring!
/V
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Just pulled the trigger on a new pair of HD-800. Please put me on the list to purchase this mod. Thanks. ahoy
Let me know if you want me to send you some modding material to do a Rabid Dog (2.0) in the meantime... Marv sent me more than enough, and sharing is caring!
/V
Thank you, Valentine, that's so thoughtful. Before you go to that effort, however, let me do some soul searching and be sure I'm not going to cancel my order for the HD-800. I am vacillating, big time. As you are a member of this thread, you have seen my previous posts. They at least hint at some of the uncertainty I have been having about which way to go next. (I'll head off exhortations to "buy one of everything" or "just get a 009 and a BHSE" up front--I cannot afford to have everything I might like.) I don't want to highjack this thread, so I'll try to be brief. Based on the endless posting at Head-Fi re bright, ruthless, glaring, etc., problems with the HD-800, I never thought them a serious option for me. (As a young man, I suffered a puncture of the left eardrum that did not heal well. As a result, I am acutely sensitive to treble problems in transducers, to the point of physical pain if there is glare and the level is greater than 80dB peaks.) Getting a taste of Stax heaven with my SR-507/SRM-006ts rig but realizing there was more to be had, I set my sights on the SR-007 (Omega 2/Mk. 1) and either a SRM-3232S or, at most, a used SRM-727. Meanwhile, I had purchased an LCD-2R2 and loved all the fun things that phone does (sweetness, dynamics, bass) but found it hopelessly colored and developmentally challenged in the high frequencies, non-starters for my preferred music: most forms of classical. That might have been the end of my experimentation, until I encountered numerous thread-posts (+ Tyll's comments) claiming the Omega 2 was dull, unexciting, somewhat distant or lacking... whatever. Now I'm really going in circles but stumble upon numerous positive comments about the HD-800: that it has electrostatic-like clarity and detail (or almost), that it does have good bass and it doesn't have shrill highs, etc. And I start thinking, OK, this could be it, the perfect compromise HP I have been looking for that is in a sonic middle ground between my Lambdas and the recently departed Audez'e. But of course, before you know it, I can't seem to read anything but damning comments about the HD-800. "What's wrong with this picture?"
Alright, the solution is to go somewhere and listen to the various options. I almost accomplished that at the recent San Francisco meet, except the day before the meet I had an accident (broke two teeth) that put me out of commission. I welcome any input on potential choices but should hold off on accepting your kind offer. I would really like the HD-800 to be at least a partial solution for my headphone needs, however, because of the ease of amping and the great variety of candidates that are available for dynamic phones. I'm writing a book here.
Sorry everyone. Looks like I did highjack the thread after all. :gross:
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I've got an HD800 coming Monday so sign me up for the new Rabid Dawg just in case. Funny thing is...my LCD2.2 that was out for repairs(cracked wood) since last week will also be coming Monday. It almost feels like I'm getting two presents at the same time. I have high hopes for the HD800. I doubt the hd800's treble is THAAAT bad. After all, I'm quite accustomed to several Grados already.
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Jeff, your perception of the HD800 is very dependent on what you plug them into. It's a serious commitment to the transducers capabilities. If you aren't willing to go 'all in' in the neighborhood of 1-2K worth of upstream gear, I'd say avoid it or save up. I had to live w/ the HD800 from a DACPort for 4 months while the Super 7 was being developed and built. That is to say, I never listened to them and everytime I tried they were just like the critics say. But I was fine with this having heard the 800 from the DACPort, Super7 and WA5 at a meet.
The 800 sounded just as bad as all the stories when I first heard them at the meet using my DACPort. Then I met Craig and plugged them into the Super7 once the crowd dispersed and did a 'wooaahh'. Then found a maxed out WA5 that purrin hooked his PWD into and did another 'wooaahh'! I was in planar camp at the time w/ the T50rp and LCD2. It was after that I did some audio calculus and felt the 800 was the best for me once I felt I had the transducer figured out based on actual experience. It was the last thing I ever wanted to do, build a whole system around one phone. Insane! So I went all in and bought the HD800 and looked at them sitting there for 4 months because they were about as enjoyable as rice cakes.
Treble. If you listen medium to low volume, you won't have a problem. That is unless your gear fails to deliver the bass and dynamics to prevent you from cranking up the volume to flatten out the FR. Hoe that helps.
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Analixus:
Yes, absolutely, that does help. I am willing to put money into the front-end and the amp, just not the kind of money I referenced in the comments re electrostatics. (I have been at pains to say that I have been an electrostatic speaker guy, especially Quads, for most of my life, so I'm not dissing that camp. I have Stax Earspeakers, right now). But if I want to make that kind of commitment, I'll make the decision to buy a SR-009 and Electra or BHSE with my eyes wide open and probably be very happy, sonically.
What I am hoping with the HD-800 goes like this: I have been wanting, not needing, to get an all-in-one player/DAC for the living room, like the Oppo 105, so that represents $1200 or less on front-end.
For the amp, I figured somewhere between a MJ- BHA-Beta 22 or top out at EC Super 7. I would really prefer, however to start with a ceiling of $2000, less if possible, for both pieces. Something good enough and quality enough to really hear what the HD-800 can do before committing "price of a good used car" type money. Does this sound realistic or doomed to failure?
Thanks again, Analixus, your post was helpful.
PS: I forgot to say that I already signed up for your new mod, the one we buy, but you probably noticed that already. Gotta run out for a while, but I'll check back in later. (I love this site.) :)p2
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B22 is for turning the HD800 into something more forgiving IMO, I consider it gimping the phone tbh.
I didn't pay much attention to the last bdp-105 I heard, but I did return a bdp-103 after living with it for 3 weeks based solely on it's digital output compared to other transports.
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B22 is for turning the HD800 into something more forgiving IMO, I consider it gimping the phone tbh.
I didn't pay much attention to the last bdp-105 I heard, but I did return a bdp-103 after living with it for 3 weeks based solely on it's digital output compared to other transports.
OK, scratch Oppo and B22. Analixus (and anyone else who wishes), can you recommend DACs and amps that work with the HD-800. It would be especially nice if they don't all cost $2000-4000 each, but if that's the case, I guess I need to find out now.
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What was wrong with the oppo 103? I just ordered a pair of hd800's and was thinking of getting the 103 to feed a nad m51 (not sure on amp yet)
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What was wrong with the oppo 103? I just ordered a pair of hd800's and was thinking of getting the 103 to feed a nad m51 (not sure on amp yet)
If you are asking me, I was only responding to Analixus' comments, above. I was kind of hoping if could function as both an SACD player and a USB DAC, + it streams native SACD. But he didn't like it, and I think he has pretty good ears. Plus a lot more experience in the Head-Fi world than I.
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My recollection of Anal's impressions is not that it was bad, but he found better for less...
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My recollection of Anal's impressions is not that it was bad, but he found better for less...
Names, my good man, names! What was better for less? Thanks.
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This thread in general...
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,753.msg17719.html#msg17719 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,753.msg17719.html#msg17719)
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,753.msg17867.html#msg17867 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,753.msg17867.html#msg17867)
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,753.msg17875.html#msg17875 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,753.msg17875.html#msg17875)
My recollection of Anal's impressions is not that it was bad, but he found better for less...
Names, my good man, names! What was better for less? Thanks.
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You can't stream SACD digitally via SPDIF, the Oppo will act as your amp for SACD/DSD. If it plays them all. Best to move the last few posts to the transport thread it seems.
The sound was meh, and frankly so was the picture which was a real surprise to me (I am picky if you didn't know so...). I can give recommendations over @ transports.
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Got it, and sorry I contributed to nudging this thread off-topic. :-)
You can't stream SACD digitally via SPDIF, the Oppo will act as your amp for SACD/DSD. If it plays them all. Best to move the last few posts to the transport thread it seems.
The sound was meh, and frankly so was the picture which was a real surprise to me (I am picky if you didn't know so...). I can give recommendations over @ transports.
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Edit: Disregard my previous questions. To make Rabid Dawg 1 using the neutral template: I assume no dust cover and only foam, correct? Then you put the thick rug lining on top. How would I adhere the liner to the foam? Is this even necessary?
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Edit: Disregard my previous questions. To make Rabid Dawg 1 using the neutral template: I assume no dust cover and only foam, correct? Then you put the thick rug lining on top. How would I adhere the liner to the foam? Is this even necessary?
You mean from the pdf posted in the previous thread? I did HD800 (small pieces of double sided tape on the metal ring) --> creatology foam ring --> attach trapezoid with ds tape --> shelf/grip liner --> dust cover.
If you use dust cover you don't have to attach the shelf liner to the foam ring. But if you don't use a dust cover, the shelf lining will curl up/come undone if you move the headphones. I had a really hard time getting the shelf lining to stretch completely flat against the inside of the cup, but eventually got it to stretch correctly and then I put on the dust cover and it's keeping the shelf liner in place well.
I just got my HD800 today, listened to it, and ouch. So then I drove to michaels(foam,ds tap) and the kitchen furnishings store next door(grip liner)
and now it has just enough brightness for me.
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Ah, I see. I will try it with and without the dust cover I guess. Thanks for the info.
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Thanks for the continued efforts to perfect the mod. Add me to the list of interested parties.
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Same from me. Sorry for contributing with tge thread derailment earlier.
Hoping to have my hd800 sometime next week.
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Amazing CSD, probably the cleanest I've seen.
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Anax, I know you said you'd sell this as a kit, but down the track would you consider buying HD800's as a retailer, modding them and selling them as an already modded package?
I only ask because I've never dicked around with mods before but damn that CSD looks mighty impressive...
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Just a reminder that the Rabid Dawg I (Anax 2.0) is almost just as effective and a worthwhile and easy mod.
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,497.0.html (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,497.0.html)http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,497.msg9987.html#msg9987 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,497.msg9987.html#msg9987)
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Could anyone point out or link me to a proper rug/shelf liner that is suitable for Rabid Dawg 1? I really want to do this mod, but not if it means having to experiment with different brands.
Edit: Found some good stuff and finished the mod. Good ol' Walmart rug liner.
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Just checked out Tyll's vid on IF to see what is involved in gettin' this type of mod into 800. Pretty straightforward.
Prior to seeing it, I was nervous about hacking into $1600 AUD cans p:0 . Now relaxed.
Analixus, put me down for a kit when available. Being in OZ, don't know if I could get the right stuff to do it.
Raksy
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New member of the family: Serial No. 21413. Make it so, Analixus. headbang
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I received my colorware pair this week (sn 204xx). I've had a couple listens and can't wait to see this mod released. Just picked up the materials for the original rabid dawg mod. I'll report back after I've had the chance to mod them listen.
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I was going to copy others and do this, and I forgot, typing in my whole serial number. Is it important? Thanks, Jefxxxx facepalm
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I can track you down and kill you now.
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I was going to copy others and do this, and I forgot, typing in my whole serial number. Is it important? Thanks, Jefxxxx facepalm
If you show your whole serial number, some unscrupulous hackers could potentially send viruses to your HD800. But don't worry, I have a commercial anti-virus for HD800 for a low introductory price of $350 for nonmembers and $300 for pirates. Better safe than sorry, pm me and I'll hook you up. :&
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lol, don't think it matters. Not really sure why I did that myself. I think the last two on mine is 96? Who cares they sound great minus some wonkiness in the treble, and I want just a bit more bass.
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Hey guys a newbie here... I was following this thread on Head Case ,oops I meant Head Fi when it evolved into a much more ,seemingly, "friendlier less confrontationaly challenged" place to discuss all this great stuff ( but what the hell do I know, it's too early to hate me yet I have'nt posted anything ; There goes my safety net , I may be foolish but my bravery can be impressive...just what you guys needed a brave fool )
Seriously though, any more word on the HD800 mod kit availability. My HD800s along with a somewhat "real" HP cable (ALO) should be showing up sometime Tomorrow. I'll probably end up running out to Michael's & Lowes but I thought I'd ask.
Yeah, a hit squad is gearing up to find me, but I live in Jersey . I can't find myself most days... Glad to meet you... Steve here
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I received my colorware pair this week (sn 204xx). I've had a couple listens and can't wait to see this mod released. Just picked up the materials for the original rabid dawg mod. I'll report back after I've had the chance to mod them listen.
pics and color/finish?
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Please PM Analixus (or go back and read the posts in the thread) for more info on status. [Don't PM me, I just take measurements, and I can barely respond to all my PMs]
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To all interested parties, development is proceeding nicely. There are just a few more minor details to iron out so just a bit more patience should be well rewarded. ;)
Thanks for everyone hanging in there. :money:
For those just finding this thread, feel free to see if any questions you might have may have already been asked and answered. Feel free to contact me via pm for any questions not already covered. Thx!
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Yay for progress!
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If you need beta testers, let me know!
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Looking forward to hearing these again Anax!
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So my HD800s made their appearance this morning, but my ALO cable has'nt shown up yet , so other than trying them on for "fit" I'll just let them rest in their case for the time being..
I'm not familiar w/ ALO cable so it'll be interesting to see how it compares to the DHC cables I use w/ my other phones. (Love the DHC cables, hate having to wait several months for them. Great product, not so great business. Kind of a shame, but he has plenty of "fans" over on "Head Job,er Fi" so I think he does alright)
Wait a minute... WTF these Headphones are opened back !!! Not a problem where's my duct tape ?
Don't worry about beta testers just tell me where to send the money. What is the word that Tyll use s ? "Take ownership" ? I don't know Tyll but he seems pretty cool w/ his very positive attitude. If he got in a bar fight & started losing , I wouldn't kick him when he was down like some friends would . As soon as the guys beating him up were a block or two away I'd help him back onto his stool . ( I don't know how this ties into anything about the mod, I just wanted to demonstrate my personal integrity I guess.. Yea, that sounds good !)
Should I try to take a listen to these cans "raw" I'll drop back in & share some of my early impressions. Later
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It appears that the USPS is not going to show with my ALO cable for my new cans. So I decided to brave & give these cans a listen using the Sennheiser "we don't want the headphones to sound as good as they can to people who can tell the difference , because then we won't sell as many of the High End Headphone Amps we're selling now" cable.
They are'nt half bad (with almost $10k of equipment in front of them) (it's funny how you worry more about how things will sound the more $ you sink into your system) It only took a minute or two to hear how the headphone cable is restricting the HFs , you can predict when you're going to encounter the the treble tightness is going to show up by how dynamic the musical phrases are building. The lower frequencies are actually pretty nice for a set of phones w/ no play time on them. I know that the headphone cable is a culprit here as I've heard these sound characteristics from other cans before they were "fixed" by giving them real cables. I can see if someone was listening to music through a DAC that Upsamples they might have to go to the Emergency Room to stop their ears from bleeding.
So , does this mean that I will skip modding these puppies ? No , as good as these phones sound now (& I'm relieved about that) I'm pretty sure they can be exceptional w/ a real cable & a little design correction. The HD800 are great headphones but Sennheiser needed to go a few more steps to finish them . What is left to be done is really next to nothing compared to how very good they can be for this effort.
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Just wanted to add that the rate of progress has been slower than expected recently as I'm spending a lot of time and effort helping with Leviathan development. Hang in there! :)p1
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]pics and color/finish?
http://i46.tinypic.com/2agkgg9.jpg
All matte carbon and candy apple. The red came out darker than expected (more brick than candy), but it's growing on me.
Hopefully squeeze in the time to mod them this weekend ;D
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One of the things I found out , with my short listen, is the HD800s don't appear to be much harder to drive then the HD700s are.
I like my Burson Soloist , but the only HPs that I have any amount of volume "range" w/ have been the HiFiman HE-6s (I don't know what to make of people who are using the medium gain setting on the Soloist for any headphones ; Using the low gain setting w/ the attenuator at 1 o'clock w/ the HE-6s is loud to me , I probably couldn't listen at 2) (I know you're asking"why is this talking about his amp & other phones ?" I'm getting to that) I like the HE-6s but they literally give me serious neck discomfort & though they are more open sounding then the 800s I like the 800s orchestral soundstage portrayal a bit more , their comfort level give them the the complete win for me. (Alright now I'll get to my reason for posting here)
Does the mod seem to have much effect on the HD800s sensitivity. In other words are you able to give them a little more volume then before, before you feel the urge to back it off some ? (I'm really trying to delay switching to a tube headphone amp...for a little while, at least ! Is there any way to lower the input sensitivity (this will be a must feature on my next amp) on my Soloist ?)
Thanks (Has anyone started a "Lets build a real headphone to put the HE-6 drivers into" yet ?)
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If one were to increase volume to add more bass to balance a hotter treble presence, then yes the mod should even out the FR so you would need less compensation to attain slightly more more bottom end presence at the same gain. So while sensitivity is unchanged mechanically in the headphone, there could be a perceived increase in sensitivity based on a better equal loudness contour.
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Sorry, to be rude....Thanks.
Being the impatient sort , I'll probably go the tube headamp route "sooner than later"... ( a trade in on my HD700s & Burson Soloist should be a start on the "tube" unit ... I'll have to start checking out what's new at Tubemongers these days.) ( I didn't dislike the HD700s nearly as much as a few of you did.) The DHC cables do help a lot though & I also think Senns are'nt at their best if you're listening through a player or DAC that Upsamples. Much better than the "dark" Beyerdynamic sound ( which it turn out sounds a little less dark playing "Upsampled" material)
Later
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I did "Tyll's" version (Creatology sticky back foam, dbl sided adesive sheets & felt & the narrow ring template ) this afternoon . The rings are'nt as "pretty" as I would have liked , but I bought enough of everything for another try or two. This first try is in the phones & I seem to thing I gained another "click of volume" on my Soloist headamp w/o the upper mids getting to much edge.
So my question is are the mod rings that I placed on top of the HPs speaker ring supposed to be slightly smaller than the rings they're sitting on ? (In this version)
All this aside, I am still interested in the "mod kit" when it become available !
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It appears that the USPS is not going to show with my ALO cable for my new cans. So I decided to brave & give these cans a listen using the Sennheiser "we don't want the headphones to sound as good as they can to people who can tell the difference , because then we won't sell as many of the High End Headphone Amps we're selling now" cable.
Brave you are. Give that cable a few hundred hours to oxidize then try it again. Sound will be even bettar.
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]pics and color/finish?
http://i46.tinypic.com/2agkgg9.jpg
All matte carbon and candy apple. The red came out darker than expected (more brick than candy), but it's growing on me.
Hopefully squeeze in the time to mod them this weekend ;D
Looks nice. Matches my new GS-X.
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It appears that the USPS is not going to show with my ALO cable for my new cans. So I decided to brave & give these cans a listen using the Sennheiser "we don't want the headphones to sound as good as they can to people who can tell the difference , because then we won't sell as many of the High End Headphone Amps we're selling now" cable.
Brave you are. Give that cable a few hundred hours to oxidize then try it again. Sound will be even bettar.
He,he, he... I didn't have to be "Brave" for too long, the ALO cable was sitting at the Post Office.
(Literally,across the street & through a parking lot.)
Turns out they tried to deliver it to a "68" address, my address is "86". The shipping label clearly had an "86" on it. Just what I needed a dyslexic mailman (I had a great mailman for years, & then they changed his route about 8 months ago. The USPS cries about how tough things are because of completion, I think they are trying to self-destruct)
Oh yeah, I'm getting these phones in shape, a real cable, mod (in various state of progress), & I ordered a tubed headphone amp today(I know the amp is seperate, but I think "tubes" flesh out most of the Senn cans pretty well)
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The Anax 2 mod w/ the seperate ring & trapezoid pcs is the way to go. It's much easier to control your circular cuts if you can spin the pcs. 360 deg. as you cut them.
I picked up some "Broyhill rug liner" at a Home Goods store. Someone mentioned this stuff is PITA to work w/ ,so I'm going to try sandwich it between something w/ less "give" (leftover Creatology foam sheet pcs.?) when I cut it. I know it's not suppose to sit on the screens, but I can't tell from the picture if it just fits underneath the upper lip. I guess I'll figure it out once I have some workable pcs.
If & when the "real deal" Anax 3 mod kit (my choice for the name, no offense but "Rabid Dawg" does'nt fit as well,... I know the story, but the materials are'nt going to be "pre-treated" are they ?) I can just pull my DIY out.
(I was having a really bad day today so I shortened this posting to where I'm not suggesting much of anything to anyone) (I assume it's okay to "modify"a posting this late or the icon would'nt still be visible ) Thanks
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Completed the mod a bit earlier today - pretty impressed. Need more listening, but I'm getting less glare or wonkiness in the treble.
Listening USB -> NAD M51 -> Mjolnir
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The great thing about this mod is you can adjust the results a bit by changing the materials a bit.
I had some leftover foam board/felt "sandwiches" from the first mod I made up (Tyll's vid.) so I used that w/ the newer templates I downloaded. I tried this w/ the "rug liner" cutout for a while & decided that w/ the foam/felt rings I liked it better w/out the additional "liner"
I think what you like w/ this mod is going to be dependant on what equipment you're using in front of your 'cans' & what type of source material you generally listen to.
The bottom line is you have nothing to lose & a huge amount to gain by trying this mod
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Hey Anax
Thanks for your mods, looking forward to trying anax 3.0.
Do you think an ear pad mod would do any good ? The microfiber on my pads started to fell off (ordered new pads) and thinking maybe of modding the old pads, right now planing to cover the pads with some leather, bad idea ? :)p8
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I think you only want to cover the ring around the driver to absorb sounds to improve decay. Modifying the entire pad with leather seems like it would influence the sound coming out of the driver too much.
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Thanks to Valentin I did anax 2.0 and man, they do sound very different now. Most noticeable difference are the highs - no sibilance whatsoever, very easy on the ear, I can even rock on with HD800 now headbang
Bass goes a bit lower and has more oomph, overall I really like the change.
Very very nice Anax, looking forward to anax 3.0 :)p6
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All you guys are welcome. Glad sharing what I got. The big thanks goes to Marv/purrin for taking the time to buy and ship all the stuff, without even asking a dime for it. Glad that I could share the remains with an additional 5 people. 3 here on Effin Ringin' and 2 with my friends!
A'hoy mates!
:boom:
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As of now, all future Anax mod production has been cancelled due to a new revolutionary process!
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,953.msg24229/topicseen.html#new (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,953.msg24229/topicseen.html#new)
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For the Rabid Dawg mk 2 do you guys use adhesive to stick the foam into place? As I understand the thick side of the foam ring goes next to the trapezoid piece so the thin part is at the front..is that right?
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I just used the creatology foam with an adhesive backside. Definitely the easiest way to go about it. And the thick part of the ring is next to the trapezoid. Exactly as you said.
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All you guys are welcome. Glad sharing what I got. The big thanks goes to Marv/purrin for taking the time to buy and ship all the stuff, without even asking a dime for it. Glad that I could share the remains with an additional 5 people. 3 here on Effin Ringin' and 2 with my friends!
A'hoy mates!
:boom:
Yes, thanks again, Valentin. Though I thanked you in private communication, I was remiss in not issuing a public appreciation. Your friendly, collaborative attitude is a treat.
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Alright I have to admit I was skeptical of this mod. I didn't really think there was anything wrong with the stock HD800s. The difference is night and day. Much less fatiguing and harsh in the treble. I have also found that the imaging and resolving ability of the HD800s is improved without all the harsh treble frequencies mucking everything up. I may try something similar on one of my friends Beyer T1s.
If this is what 2.0 is I can't wait for 3.0. Sign me up headbang
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So I just picked up my HD800s...and I really wanna do this mod. I have seen Tyll's vid and methods and I'm wondering a couple of things about 2.0:
1. Is the trapezoid no longer part of the ring?
2. Did you simply use ONE layer of creatology adhesive backed foam for the ring and trapezoid?
3. How do you keep the shelf-liner part in place above the creatology ring?
If someone could answer these questions, that'd be awesome :)!
Kojaku
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So I just picked up my HD800s...and I really wanna do this mod. I have seen Tyll's vid and methods and I'm wondering a couple of things about 2.0:
1. Is the trapezoid no longer part of the ring?
Whether it's part of the ring or not, it needs to be there.
2. Did you simply use ONE layer of creatology adhesive backed foam for the ring and trapezoid?
Yes.
3. How do you keep the shelf-liner part in place above the creatology ring?
Fit+friction.
Hope that helps.
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So I just picked up my HD800s...and I really wanna do this mod. I have seen Tyll's vid and methods and I'm wondering a couple of things about 2.0:
1. Is the trapezoid no longer part of the ring?
2. Did you simply use ONE layer of creatology adhesive backed foam for the ring and trapezoid?
3. How do you keep the shelf-liner part in place above the creatology ring?
If someone could answer these questions, that'd be awesome :) !
Kojaku
#1 What he said
#2 Yes (What he said)
#3 What he said & I used small strips of double sticky tape to afix the center of the shelf liner to the foam center ring and a couple of small pieces on the trapazoid to help anchor it down.
JJ
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#1 What he said
#2 Yes (What he said)
#3 What he said & I used small strips of double sticky tape to afix the center of the shelf liner to the foam center ring and a couple of small pieces on the trapazoid to help anchor it down.
JJ
[/quote]
Any brand names for the thick drawer lining stuff? I wanna be as detailed as possible.
Kojaku
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Though I'm not familiar with Anax's mod(3.0 kit mfwhere! just kidding ). Head over to linky and introduce yourselfhttp://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,302.0.html (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,302.0.html) Nice to have a diyer like yourself on board Kojaku :)
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#1 What he said
#2 Yes (What he said)
#3 What he said & I used small strips of double sticky tape to afix the center of the shelf liner to the foam center ring and a couple of small pieces on the trapazoid to help anchor it down.
JJ
Any brand names for the thick drawer lining stuff? I wanna be as detailed as possible.
Kojaku
Not really.
I just went to a local hardware store and got the smallest roll of shelf liner that was ≈50% air.
You've seen the stuff, every other 'square' is air. And the squares are soft and squishy but fairly tough. I had to use scissors to cut it to shape.
It's also used in tool boxes to keep the tools from rolling around.
JJ
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I was also having trouble with getting the foam liner to sit inside properly. It is a flat piece of material going into a \_/ shaped area, so it kept wrinkling up. I ended up creating my own template where the liner is rolled into a cone to approximate the angle of the interior walls, and then essentially cutting the bottom of the cone off to the point where the circle is the same size as the driver. Then I trimmed it to fit and used a little bit of superglue to connect the shelf liner pieces together.
It definitely took a lot of extra work and fiddling around but the fit is much better now. I don't think it should mess with the sound either as it is using the same area of the liner, it is just implemented in a different way.
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Wait a minute...what's this dust cover business? The template only has the creatology ring and the drawer liner...what's the white part beneath the creatology in the first pic that purrin posted? Anyone?
Kojaku
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I think that is just the reflective metal mesh.
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Yeah I'd be quite happy to spend like 20 bucks on a prepackaged mod. I tried Rabid Dawg 2.0 and I'm loving it so far :)
Kojaku
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For the work that Anal has done and the (expected) advances in the new version, I think he should get more than $20. I would think $50-100, prepackaged and ready to install (i.e. no trimming needed) would be fair.
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walk the plank2OK I've been experimenting with the anax 2.0 for a bit, but wasn't 100% happy with it, at least in terms of the fit. Recently I've adapted it a bit having the shelf liner material only cover the metal grille, no overlap with the felt ring or trapezoid. This seems to be the sound and fit I am happiest with. Sound is much faster and more resolving compared tomanax 1.0, thats about the limit of my insight for now.
Making a template might be difficult. I might try or auggest using paper, cutting it to size gradually and then doing the shelf liner. This would also solve the 3d curvature issues. I will try this when I find some time.
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Interesting idea...I just got finished trying out the shelf liner covering only the silver mesh. I really like the sound, I thought it brought out the bass a bit more and found it overall to be very engaging. I ended up using shelf liner over the silver mesh with the original shelf liner on top of it. This brought back some of the treble and increased the dynamics without losing the bass. Not sure if I will end up keeping it this way or not. I found that using the 2.0 lacked a little something for me over just using the shelf liner with no foam. The sound without foam was more open but a little bit harsh with treble still. I think everyone's preference may vary based on the upstream equipment as well.
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^ Good ear. ;)
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Haha I am assuming that means your impressions were similar to mine? After some more listening I found the foam ring and two layers of shelf liner was pretty much the same as one layer of shelf liner except lacking the openness that I loved about the HD800 in the first place. I think it may have also killed some of the really low bass. Back to the drawing board to try to figure out how to keep the sound of the 2.0 mod with a more open sound. I really hope that the 3.0 is able to do this whenever it is released.
This modding stuff is fun. Sometimes the results are a bit counter intuitive. No damping=treble and too much damping=treble. I am starting to appreciate the work that went into the 2.0 in the first place. Clearly this is a great starting point for more experimentation. Right now I am thinking of trying a shelf liner circle to replace the foam. After that maybe trying some different types of shelf liner (last time I checked there were tons).
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This modding stuff is fun. Sometimes the results are a bit counter intuitive. No damping=treble and too much damping=treble. I am starting to appreciate the work that went into the 2.0 in the first place. Clearly this is a great starting point for more experimentation. Right now I am thinking of trying a shelf liner circle to replace the foam. After that maybe trying some different types of shelf liner (last time I checked there were tons).
Simpler terms:
Too much damping = reduced compliance = higher resonant frequency = treble + extreme highs rolloff. Also reduced efficiency which can also lead to bass drop.
No damping = ringing in small cavity = peaky treble.
Hard damping boundary = edge effects = time domain smearing = long decay, usually in mids/highs.
I recommend plain old cotton wool as a material. The better replacements are different kinds of wool - mostly trading availability, softness and ease of controlling density for moisture resistance and mass.
Kapok (Java cotton) is another excellent material, very water resistant with larger fibers. You should be able to get it inside some pillow as stuffing.
Fiberglass wool, rock wool and mineral wool are highly annoying to work with...
Various foams can also be used, but I find cotton to work better. Albeit it's easier to create very low density foams reliably than very low density cotton sheets.
If you want something very pressure linear and not too damping (medium density), a good quality wool rolag is probably best. Can be found in specialty shops.
Oh, and if you are really feeling cost no object, unprocessed silk is an excellent material too - silk noil. It's not actually *that* expensive either. (Mulberry/cultivated is more even than Tussah/wild.)
http://prosiding.papsi.org/index.php/APS/article/view/356 - some interesting article. So kapok is good for low midrange damping, while glass wool is better for higher frequencies...
Felt is usually strictly inferior to typical high density wool in audio applications - its only saving grace is mechanical resilience, which is of no use in an earcup.
There are many kinds of felt, so talking "felt" means nothing. Typical are synthetic polypropylene, cotton and wool; silk is rare, but might be around.
The main difference is the very short randomly distributed fibres in the felt process.
Most kinds of felt are too high density for damping applications - you want something on the order of 100 - 200 g/m^2 - and most kinds of felt are 600-800 g/m^2. (Thicker lighter is better.) Something that dense will be more akin to a wall for air pressure waves.
And if you need some specific damping, felt is not as controllable as a mix of looser fabrics.
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Cool stuff AstralStorm, thanks for the information. My only problem with using these materials for modding the HD800 is that they aren't being placed inside a headphone enclosure. They are just sitting open in the HD800 earcups, which could make fibers messy and hard to control. You would definitely need some way to keep the cotton in place. Maybe some cotton in place of the foam with the shelf liner on top to keep it in place? Might have to try it. It may sound silly, but I have been taking apart some of my girlfriends yarn (she is a big knitter) and using that material to damp the T50rp. I thought it would be a decent starting place since it is high quality organic material (i.e. no polyester and other synthetic fibers). I have gone back to using the foam with shelf liner covering the silver mesh like drez suggested. I really like it...definitely more laid back sound compared to stock, and I think more open sounding than the 2.0. It actually made me appreciate the bass in my music, it kind of reminds me of the LCD2 I tried briefly at a meet. I had been craving that engaging fun sound that I experienced, I was even considering a pair of LCD2 to supplement the HD800 :)p8...not anymore though.
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Low thickness Nylon stockings (AKA woman socks) work well for keeping messy materials inside, are cheap and sonically transparent, better than most "speaker cover" materials.
Yarn works ok for damping, but it's a bit dense for many uses.
Yes, dampened T50rp kinda sounds like LCD-2, except it doesn't have HUGE subbass, only ok subbass. Too small driver for that.
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Just curious if there's any update on the commercial version of this mod? I'm currently very much enjoying the v1.0 mod, based on Tyll's video and template (although with off-brand 2mm foam and felt since Joanne's is a lot closer to home than Michael's). That said, my skills with an exacto are shoddy at best, and I am looking forward to a cleanly made commercial version.
Thanks again to anax, purrin and all of the others who have helped to create, refine and spread the word regarding this excellent mod!
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Quick question pirates. With the version 1.0 modification I used 2mm creatology foam with a layer of felt on top of that. Now with the version 2.0 is the felt still used in conjunction with the 2mm foam or is it no longer used with the anti-slip mat?
Thank you.
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Anax... Any news? :)p7
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Went Rabid Dawg recently with help from Stapsy with the material. Thanks Stapsy! This is some good shit! For me, I had little trouble with the shelf liner by using very small pieces of Scotch double sided tape to hold it at strategic points.
On the sound, I find that I'm using a lot less EQ than before the mod was done. The mids could go louder and had somewhat less grain then before. Will give it more time before I try other materials :D
Waiting on Anal for RD3.0!
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Anax... Any news? :)p7
Still shootin' for the end of November.
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Anax... Any news? :)p7
Still shootin' for the end of November.
Awesome, will the anax 3.0 be prepackaged? I have a pair of refurb crutchfield hd800s coming in about 2 weeks and I would like to try the anax 2.0 but I'm not very good with crafts and stuff. Would anyone be willing to use their extra materials to make me one?
Edit: I Read this.
Thx guys. There are still a few minor nit picks I want to iron out. The good news is I think there is still a bit more room for improvement and refinement. The bad news is I'm considering bringing this a commercial as a kit w/ three selectable levels for user preference. So further pics and templates will likely be withheld to the general public. There will be accommodations made for Ye Pirates of course!
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Anax... Any news? :)p7
Still shootin' for the end of November.
Sweet... I'll be hiding in a cave with Anax 2.0-HD800's, some dominican cigars, and this bloody paper that needs to be finished by mid-november.
Any decisions on pricing?
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Anax, could you tell us more about the three selectable levels for user preference?
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Question for those using anax 2.0: do you prefer the neutral or warm ring? I prefer the warm ring with the stock cable atm. Might change when I get my zu cable tomorrow.
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Warm is working for me using the EC Monolith, which is a little on the bright side IMHO.
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Yes EC monolith is bright. You can always try some Obligato caps to warm things up.
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Yep... you read my mind. Now that it's boxed up and stable I plan to roll in a few cap options and see what can be done, just for fun.
Especially since I've got some Slants on the way! :)p1 Wait, wrong thread...
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After getting the modified zu cable yesterday, I went back to using the neutral rings. I felt like the Zu cable did a really good job at taming the hd800's treble. With the warm rings and the nfb-10es2, the hd800's treble actually felt a bit laid back. The neutral rings created a very nice and balanced sound that sounds like the UERMs on steroids. I'll be bringing them to the NYC head-fi meet this saturday; I'll see what people have to say about them :)p1
Edit: Huge thanks to purrin and anax for making this mod possible!
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I am really looking forward to this mod! :wheel: I suck at everything DIY, so I will definitely buy and try this!
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Bought a HD800 again in anticipation of this mod. Really looking forward to it!
I'm using EQ in the meantime. These are the settings that sound most neutral to my ears.
EQ settings:
- Analog bell, 1.6KHz, +5dB, 1.02 Q
- Analog bell, 6Khz, -10dB, 2.2 Q
- High shelf, 3.4Khz, -2.7dB, 0.5 Q
(http://i.imgur.com/oAvlKI7.png)
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Anax 2.0 gets rid of the need for EQ imo. Since there isn't an exact release date for 3.0 yet, I'd highly recommend just doing 2.0 for now. I can send you some leftover foam and rug liner for the cost of shipping. PM me.
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Thanks for the offer. I have tried the Anax 2.0 and it didn't tame the treble peak enough for me. EQ gives me more flexibility.
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I don't want to be annoying, so I won't ask for an update.
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I don't want to be annoying, so I won't ask for an update.
Subtle passive aggresivity. I like it.
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Lol, let me finish up with Bay Area meet this weekend first. I plan to have a few units in other hands for secondary impressions soon.
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:)p1 :)p7 headbang
I was just about to rework the mod for a better fit in my HD800, glad to hear it is coming along!
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I would like to ask for some more detailed commentary about this kind of HD800 modification...
So far, I've tried the Tyll's version of this mod and while I can appreciate its approach, I felt that it takes too much air away, makes imaging and 3-dimensionality less apparent. The sound was too damped. I also found vocals to be closer and sound a bit harsher and sibilant... That said, bass was more present due to less airy highs and improved uppermids/lower treble balance and background was logically blacker (less air, more damping) - I believe this is gonna be fine for the majority of people.
I even tried to modify this Tyll's modification because I saw some potential in it. Basically, I wanted to damp the sound a bit at the sides (to make them sound less diffuse and decrease perception of air a little bit) without having HD800 sound too closed-in in terms of soundstage width, and I wanted to make vocals be more distant and smoother again. I quite achieved this by using only the "connecting part" between ring and trapezoid...
(http://jyxo.info/uploads/BC/bcb2d5fc72692f06efe5ca042b12651379ea9baf.jpg)
...basically, I achieved a bit of damping, making sounds coming from left and right less diffuse without taking away too much air. Skipping the ring part of Tyll's mod made the vocals sound smoother and more distant. Imaging and soundstage were more or less fine... Though still wasnt (and am not) sure completely about that.
However, when I tried the HD800s without the mod and WITHOUT DUST COVERS (so nothing inside the cups), I was basically blown away... I have never heard as holographic (deep!) and precise soundstage in a headphone! Vocals were the most distant and most clean, sibilance the least obvious, the feel of "acoustics" is simply impressive... and the detail was improved... basically, I can hear EVERYTHING now in my music and I feel the same way weeks after I found this (Senns now just sound so clear and display every nuance with ease while still authentic enough). I feel that this is the most uncompromised sound I have heard with HD800 so far. I can feel that there is a bit more air going on than would be ideal and sound signature/FR is a bit brighter (thought it's almost the same as the stock config., really) but this is really nitpicking in comparison to how compromised the stock and Anax modded configuration sounded to me.
I want to clarify that I hear the ringing of HD800, occasionally, regardless what configuration I use (stock/no dust covers/anax)... That said, I have heard ringing with every headphone I have had a chance to listen to extensively (for several days at least). And I believe that this article is right: http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2013/01/sennheiser-hd800-part3-in-depth.html
... it's just impossible to completely eliminate it.
Therefore, I would like to ask, is this mod able to make HD800 sound more right in uppermids/low treble (+ possibly decreasing air a little bit) without taking away imaging precision, soundstage dimensionality (especially depth!) and smoothness (especially in vocals, as I said before)?
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I hate to disagree with you, but Rin is wrong about not being able to tame the 6k peak. I've noted that Rin has a tendency of coming to conclusions way way too quickly, and oftentimes misconstruing coincidence as causation. (He's still inexperienced.) One really cannot come to conclusions about the HD800 by poking a hole in one cheap Kobitone driver and noting how it measures.)
In any event, did you see the measurements in the first post? Absolutely NO trace of that 6k peak, although there is still a slight upwards slope in the treble. The reason this version of the mod hasn't been released by Anax is because of some of the issues that you mentioned: loss of air, openness, etc. You gain some, you lose some. Anax wanted it all.
I'm not giving Anax's secrets away, but I would say continue to play around with materials, location of materials, be willing to deconstruct the earlier version of the mod you are using, etc.
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Welcome Darth Obvious,
It looks like you were using felt? I haven't tried felt but the Creatology foam and shelf liner ring was fairly successful for me. You can check it out using the links at the beginning of the thread. If you want a more open sound try using only the ring of shelf liner (and the trapezoid piece). Depending on your amp you might find it works for you.
Can I ask what amp/dac you are using. With the built in solid state amp in my Anedio D2 I found the full mod was necessary. I never got around to trying the stock HD800 with the Vali, but with my EC2A3mk4 I am not finding the issues with treble as large. It isn't too strident but still a bit bright for me. If the mod is closing in the sound for you it might be advisable to try a high quality tube amp to take the edge off. As Purrin says, my experience has been there is always going to be a trade off with these mods.
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I hate to disagree with you, but Rin is wrong about not being able to tame the 6k peak. I've noted that Rin has a tendency of coming to conclusions way way too quickly, and oftentimes misconstruing coincidence as causation. (He's still inexperienced.) One really cannot come to conclusions about the HD800 by poking a hole in one cheap Kobitone driver and noting how it measures.)
In any event, did you see the measurements in the first post? Absolutely NO trace of that 6k peak, although there is still a slight upwards slope in the treble. The reason this version of the mod hasn't been released by Anax is because of some of the issues that you mentioned: loss of air, openness, etc. You gain some, you lose some. Anax wanted it all.
I'm not giving Anax's secrets away, but I would say continue to play around with materials, location of materials, be willing to deconstruct the earlier version of the mod you are using, etc.
Thank you very much for replying... To be honest, I dont really see a way how to completely eliminate the ringing even though I've seen the measurement and its for sure very very promising (though I am not sure whether I would prefer the Anax 2.0 or this upcoming 3.0 mod, both looking very nice). That said, I suspect my ears (especially the right one) is overly sensitive and therefore I can really hear resonances even with headphones like LCD-2 or similar non-fatiguying offerings.
I am trying to do what you suggest... I experimented with the Tyll's mod, deconstructed it, tried to find a spot-on positioning etc. but I am still not completely convinced (and yeah, I still hear some ringing occassionally - less pronounced but still). I've tried some other materials but no luck so far (the Tyll's version worked best). It would be nice if Anax could finally share some wisdom... I am not located in the States and therefore it's not easy for me to get various materials and experiment. Even the Tyll's mod was quite difficult for me to finish due to this fact and therefore I would rather know that I am spending my money on materials that are going to work. Anax, judging by your comment, has a very similar opinion (and goals in mind) about HD800's modification and therefore I will most probably wait...
Welcome Darth Obvious,
It looks like you were using felt? I haven't tried felt but the Creatology foam and shelf liner ring was fairly successful for me. You can check it out using the links at the beginning of the thread. If you want a more open sound try using only the ring of shelf liner (and the trapezoid piece). Depending on your amp you might find it works for you.
Can I ask what amp/dac you are using. With the built in solid state amp in my Anedio D2 I found the full mod was necessary. I never got around to trying the stock HD800 with the Vali, but with my EC2A3mk4 I am not finding the issues with treble as large. It isn't too strident but still a bit bright for me. If the mod is closing in the sound for you it might be advisable to try a high quality tube amp to take the edge off. As Purrin says, my experience has been there is always going to be a trade off with these mods.
I've tried to use materials that Tyll suggested (so 2mm foam + 1.5-2mm felt)... and I as well tried the felt alone (2mm) but it didnt work (no improvement, I thought it was even worse than without it). Though I havent tried 2+2mm foam... Should I?
I am using Yulong DA8 (fully-balanced XLR preamp out to HD800) and along with the rest of my chain, I feel no fatigue from HD800's upper-mids/treble frequency response (I just hear the ringing but it's alright most of the time)... But only if I use my whole tuned audio chain (including audio PC etc.) and listen to lossless quality music (genre or level of compression does not matter much). Once I switch to my "compromised" listening chain = music of youtube quality + onboard soundcard toslink out -> toslink input of DA8, it hurts my ears quite a bit.
I honestly don't like tube amplifiers... I am happy with the DA8 (those balanced preamp outs are really great - the most expansive and defined soundstage I have ever heard, no mid-fi quality).
What I am trying to figure out is whether I should try hard to mod HD800 to get the best sound out of them (I mean the best possible balance between technical and natural?)... Or whether I should buy a second-hand HE-500. I like its FR but otherwise, they are not on par with HD800... And therefore I am not sure whether they are worth the money (especially considering the fact that I would have to pay 600USD AT LEAST to get them since prices are higher here and importing from the States means additional costs).
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The upcoming 3.0 is based on the 2.0 mods. Use shelf liner. Try different kinds.
The peak can be made to completely go away. But the HD800 will still be bright.
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The upcoming 3.0 is based on the 2.0 mods. Use shelf liner. Try different kinds.
The peak can be made to completely go away. But the HD800 will still be bright.
Thank you again for responding... Alright, I am going to try shelf liner in a few weeks (thanks a lot, Stapsy!) :-)
Looking forward to hear more about 3.0 anyway!
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Darth has peaked my interest in fiddling with this mod again. I spent last night listening to the stock HD800, then a couple hours tonight with just the outer shelf liner ring. Does anyone else find that the HD800 sound a bit diffuse in comparison with the modded version, or the inverse of that, they sound fuller with the mod?
I find a larger difference than just the FR response change when it comes to the mod. I used to long for that openness again but the fuzziness in the imaging without the mod was annoying. The sibilance didn't even bother me in the treble. I am not very good at figuring out what it is. My hypothesis is that it is the excess treble or the ringing evident in the CSD that is interfering with the rest of the sound. Thoughts?
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My guess is that the shelf liner helps to reduce reflections from the metal mesh - which contributes to the fuzzy diffuse sound.
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Yep that makes perfect sense. I should have put the dust covers back in.
Right now I am using a shelf liner ring instead of the foam ring with the original shelf liner from 2.0 on top. Not sure why but it seems to extend the soundstage out towards the front with better 3 dimensional layering. Less of a horseshoe shaped soundstage. I am really digging the presentation so far, but something seems a little off. I think the attack is a bit dulled with this setup.
I still need to go back and rework the 2.0 mod so that everything fits together better. It can be a bit of a pain to cram everything in there and get it to sit properly.
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Keep at it Darth. After a year and a half, the Anax 3.0 aka Rabid Dawg part duex doesn't seem to be coming out any time soon. :)p8
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Experienced the same thing a while back, could not really tolerate the diffused/fuzzy imaging either with the mods out. Popped it back in and all was great. Still waiting on 3.0 :3
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Well, I am done with the Tyll's mod... After trying out a lot of things, the best-sounding way how to use it in my experience is this:
(http://jyxo.info/uploads/4B/4b301ba070f9a66446fec8b5ce73b79316ad68a5.jpg)
Instead of using the whole pieces, I just use the small rectangular parts (in red, size is only an approximation)... It makes vocals as great as with no-dust-covers configuration, makes imaging at sides less fuzzy without making soundstage less wide or deep... and all the glorious detail is there (which is not true with full Tyll's Anax mod). The downside is that there is still a bit too much of air, making background a bit too grayish. It does not make imaging less apparent but you just hear a bit more gray background than would be ideal. Another downsize is that ringing is not reduced sufficiently... but IMHO it's not reduced any better with the full Tyll's Anax mod either so no change here.
Looking forward to try the Changstar version... But I am quite worried because people hyped the Tyll's version how impressive it is... and well, it is certainly fine but nowhere near perfect.
EDIT: Forgot to add that the overall tonality is still brighter than neutral... But that should be obvious.
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I did the Anax Mod 2.0 today. Problem: the size of the shelf liner cutout in the pdf template is not right. It's too big and small, lol. The size of the foam ring and trapezoid are correct and fit perfectly. I don't live in the US so I'm using different rug liner. I may upload pics of that later.
I had to cut a little piece of the ring out so it could fit flat in my HD800. Also, the rug liner material does not cover all the metal mesh. How problematic is that? I'm hearing a huge peak @ 5.4kHz.
Thanks in advance! I love this board :-*
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I have found a difference between the two different shelf liners I used. The thicker one was marginally better.
Fitting it in is a bit tricky. I like to make the outside edge a bit bigger than the pattern so the pads press it down. Seems to help keep it smoothed out and in place. Also cut the inside hole a little smaller, get it to sit flat, then trim out the inside until it fits. That has been the best strategy for me so far. I have used a couple dabs of superglue to stick the liner to the foam but if the liner doesn't fit snugly it doesn't work that well.
The more complicated option that I have used is to roll the liner into a cone to mimic the tapered edges, cut out the bottom, trim the top to fit and then use a couple dabs of super glue to stick it together. I can see if I can dig out the template I made, it isn't perfect but it is a decent starting place. I gave up because it was to much work and I have found the other technique I mentioned works just as well.
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When I fussed with the shelf liner material I used up a whole bunch of it, but since the roll of it I purchased was many times greater than what I needed I didn't worry about 'making mistakes' and wasting it.
I wound up using ≈ 6 pieces to make one that worked.
The stuff I used would tear and disintegrate where it was stuck to the dbl sided tape I used to affix it to the central ring.
After a while I learned to 'dirty' up the tape a bit so it would let go more easily.
I did use 4-5 pieces of tape around the ring to hold the shelf liner in place and one more piece on the flat plastic 'support' structure.
Then it was just a matter of tucking the edge of the liner under the ear pads at the outside edge.
I trimmed the shape of the outside edge to match where it was held by the ear pads so there were no wrinkles and everything laid down flat.
It was a labor intensive process but it did work well, after all was said and done.
JJ
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I have successfully finished the Anax 2.0 mod about an hour ago... OMG, I don't wanna do that shelf liner part ever again! Btw, I would like to thank Stapsy again for helping me!
My first impressions (I doubt they will change):
1) Imaging is brilliant - as good as before at center and not diffuse at all at sides... Simply precision. This is the most evident highlight of this mod.
2) Airiness is not decreased, at least not to my ears, in comparison to stock... This is definitely an improvement over Tyll's version which lacked air. On the other hand, his version improved blackness of background which is not the case here.
3) Soundstage is absolutely fine in terms of width or height and depth also remains about the same as stock (not as good as with no dust covers)... So I would say a definite satisfaction and again improvement over Tyll's version which lacked depth (at least IMHO).
4) Tonality is the same as with stock headphones... I mean REALLY the same - not slightly more bassy and sibilant as with Tyll's version (at least this was my experience). This Changstar version definitely does not change the headphone - only decrease the peakiness... Meaning that these headphones are still bright and still very honest. They didnt transform into something more forgiving i would say - but you can hear that upper mids/lower treble are cleaner (especially gonna be appreciated when you turn the volume up).
5) Ringing/excess energy is definitely decreased but I can still slightly hear it... I am looking forward to try the Rabid Dog II because of this.
I wasn't impressed at all after listening to a song or two at first because my brain expected some kind of BIGGER change in sound because of all the waiting (for materials) and effort I put into doing this modification properly. But then you start to realise that this exactly was the purpose - the Anax 2.0 doesn't transform HD800s into something else at all - only subtle "adjustments" happen to reduce their flaws without changing the rest. I admire Tyll's articles and all his work for our audiophile community... But he should seriously skip his version of Anax mod and try this one instead - Changstar's version does its job significantly better. :)p4
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Posting a few images of the finished modification:
(http://oi59.tinypic.com/2m7xb3q.jpg)
(http://oi58.tinypic.com/2qc08pu.jpg)
As I mentioned in the previous post, I still could hear some ringing... And to be honest, I started to be worried about my ears - whether it's not my fault that I hear something that is not there. Therefore, I tried to use the shelf liner to cover the trapezoid part as well (it's not covered with the original modification, at least according to images on Changstar).
(http://oi57.tinypic.com/s4uauh.jpg)
(additionally covered part in RED)
And I can honestly say that I only hear a tiny bit of ringing now - situation improved again (but still not perfect). It seems that my ears just became overly sensitive which is obviously not good for me... Now I am worried about buying any headphones that shows some signs of resonant behavior.
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Leaving the dust cover on seems to help a little with the treble. You may want to try that.
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Thanks... I am not really sure at this point. I am even thinking about selling them for quite some time now - I just still hear a slight ringing which prevents me from listening completely comfortable. But I know that other people are not able to hear it with my pair... I feel a bit weird, you know.
If anybody would like to buy them from me (Europe preferable but can ship almost anywhere), let me know... They are a 2013 pair.
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Are you running the stock cables?
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Are you running the stock cables?
No, OCC copper...
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According to measurements here on multiple pairs, unfortunately, I don't think it's the HD800 ringing.
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Probably just too bright for your tastes.
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Has anyone thought of removing that metal mesh completely? Someone with thick wallet..
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(http://i60.tinypic.com/71jyq1.jpg)
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SFAA hard-wired and modded?! Looking forward to impressions!
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SFAA hard-wired and modded?! Looking forward to impressions!
I'll pm you, but honestly the service isn't worth it. Let's just say I'll be trying Anax's 3.0 mod coupled with this $1300 mod..
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I liked mine a bit better but I'm biased.
Removing the mesh is a thought but you'd have to replace it with something else. Otherwise you are going to take the sound to a place you might not want to be. In other words, the cure might be worse than the disease in that case. Think Abyss with no seal.
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Ah, cool picture, but i meant the other mesh, the fine-structured flexible mesh.
The one covering driver back shouldn't stay in high freq way, intuitively.
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SFAA hard-wired and modded?! Looking forward to impressions!
Has anyone thought of removing that metal mesh completely? Someone with thick wallet..
Yes I have been running my 800's this way for about a year now.
I wouldn't want to go back.
This mod along with a few others have 'solved' the fatigue problem for me.
But this is but one 'set' of modifications that go hand in hand IF you want to experience just how scaleable 800's truly are.
And the total net effects are wonderful in terms of the sonic results.
And hopefully I'll be getting some measurement data to be able to see what differences these mods have made.
JJ
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Very very interesting. May have to try the grill removal myself.
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SFAA hard-wired and modded?! Looking forward to impressions!
Has anyone thought of removing that metal mesh completely? Someone with thick wallet..
Yes I have been running my 800's this way for about a year now.
I wouldn't want to go back.
This mod along with a few others have 'solved' the fatigue problem for me.
But this is but one 'set' of modifications that go hand in hand IF you want to experience just how scaleable 800's truly are.
And the total net effects are wonderful in terms of the sonic results.
And hopefully I'll be getting some measurement data to be able to see what differences these mods have made.
JJ
Are you talking about the saa mod or about removing the metallic mesh from the cups?
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SFAA hard-wired and modded?! Looking forward to impressions!
Has anyone thought of removing that metal mesh completely? Someone with thick wallet..
Yes I have been running my 800's this way for about a year now.
I wouldn't want to go back.
This mod along with a few others have 'solved' the fatigue problem for me.
But this is but one 'set' of modifications that go hand in hand IF you want to experience just how scaleable 800's truly are.
And the total net effects are wonderful in terms of the sonic results.
And hopefully I'll be getting some measurement data to be able to see what differences these mods have made.
JJ
Are you talking about the saa mod or about removing the metallic mesh from the cups?
The SAA 'upgrade' mod and hardwiring along with other tweaks.
But there is more to this than just the grill removal.
JJ
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Yes I noticed the SAA mod did more than just remove the driver grill. From the site it looks like the price is $349, which is pretty reasonable (without the hardwire). I was close to pulling the trigger on a pair that showed up on HF a month ago to compare with stock.
If Anax only liked his a bit better I might have to try it :)p2
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What I've noticed is that with the SAA mod and endorphin cable hardwired to the 800's, the scaleability of this setup goes thru the roof.
As most of us already know 800's truly are analytical. But what I've observed is that any restriction or alteration in the signal that is delivered to the transducers, THAT's what you'll hear.
What this means is, you are now listening to the collection of what I call 'choke points' that exist in the entire system. Some of which can sound terrible and the conclusion that many make is it must be the 800's…
I have found that EVERYTHING matters, when you get to this level of 'precision'.
That is if your goal is to find out how far the 800's along with the rest of the system can really scale.
So far I don't believe I've hit that limit yet. But I'm not done fussing with all of EVERYTHING that I can yet.
JJ
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does anyone know how to do the hardwired mods?
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http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-appreciation-thread/9255#post_10369234
This is the best I could find.
Certainly got me interested, especially with the grill removal. I am slightly worried if I take them apart I won't be able to put them back.
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Good stuff. I think I'll do the same. All of the hardwired HD800 sounded very good to me.
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Well those internal wires do look kind of wimpy.
I think it is likely more to do with the HD800 connectors, they seem stupidly complex for absolutely no reason. I have had two DIY cables break at the connectors due to the small pins and they are a bitch to fix, especially with my beginner soldering skills. The connectors just never feel secure. I wish they locked in like the mini 4pin XLR's instead of the friction fit.
Looks pretty simple really. I want to try to take that grill off but from looking at those pictures I have a feeling that will involve taking the drivers out.
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The tiny connector pins and anemic wires (albeit rather short) have always been on my 'hit list' to 'fix'.
I'm just an old hardwire kinda guy I guess…
JJ
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After reading that review of hardwiring the 800's I concur.
Especially about the 'taming' of the top end. BUt there is more as well.
I have taken it a bit beyond that and written it down in an explanatory fashion.
But it does take clearing up the choke points in order to see how far you can take these improvements.
And the total shift in acoustic improvements can go quite a ways further.
Like I said 800's do scale extremely well.
JJ
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I just wish the SAA cable didn't cost 500-700 bucks to get hardwired. That is beyond my self imposed cable cost limit. If I was adept enough I would hardwire my Norne audio cable, but I still have no idea how Trevor was able to connect 4 wires to each HD800 connector.
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Yeah it is a 'pricey' setup when all is said and done.
But if you look at it as just a portion (albeit a large one) of what it takes to get the 800's to sing, the total is still cheaper than SR-009's, AB1266, and a handful of others.
I see it as a necessary/essential component of my investigatory/research tool.
But then that's my approach.
JJ
ps as for DIY'ng the cables it isn't that hard to do, assuming you're familiar, comfortable, have the tools, etc.
The biggest 'problem' is strain relief, along with routing the wires. The post listed above shows a decent installation from what I saw.
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I'm afraid this looks like very expensive Foo and snake oil to me. I have tried alternative headphone cables myself but to be honest any differences were very very marginal indeed in terms of any sonic difference. In fact Tyll at Innerfidelity conducted tests and came to the same conclusion.
Are any of these claims including the so called HD800 Ultra-mod backed up by any objective measurements? Surely if the claimed changes are so significant it should be possible see the changes in comparative measurements.
I replaced the cable on my AKG K1000 with an ultra expensive SAA cable a while ago and the only result was a large hole in my wallet.
I just wish the SAA cable didn't cost 500-700 bucks to get hardwired. That is beyond my self imposed cable cost limit. If I was adept enough I would hardwire my Norne audio cable, but I still have no idea how Trevor was able to connect 4 wires to each HD800 connector.
SAA 'upgrade'
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I agree to a point, especially with regard to expensive cables. I have heard differences between cables and I have heard cables with no audible difference. It can be very system dependent as well.
Measurements aren't everything and the absence of them certainly doesn't make something snake oil. It looks like a different approach to HD800 modification and I can see the theoretical merit to some of the changes they make. That being said I would love to see some measurements of the SAA mod
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As I said in one of my previous posts, I'm work'n on getting some measurements.
But as I've also said there is more to all of this than what measurements alone can capture.
Such things as a 'veil', or bass that couples well, or other similar sonic results don't have corresponding measurements that you can point to and say 'there it is'.
We are dealing with qualitative results, which are subjective by definition and are dependent on the entire system, and not specifically on any single device.
And the only way to determine if such qualitative results are 'meaningful' is to experience them directly and determine for ones self if they are beneficial, or not.
I have described much of what I have found, which is all subjective, balanced with decades of experience, into a useful descriptive narrative to make it useful as a set of functional 'tools'. In this way one can use these 'tools' to help in getting a better handle on just what the changes truly are and if they are 'better', or not.
And I too have found that cables and other accessories, in many situations can make no differences and in some others, be obviously detrimental to the sound I hear.
But I didn't stop experimenting and playing around, because I did want to find out what I could about this and that.
And it all started to make noticeably beneficial changes after reading about the anax mod and then the experiments progressed from there, and then all sorts of things started to come into focus.
It hasn't stopped.
Just some passing thoughts.
JJ
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I agree to a point, especially with regard to expensive cables. I have heard differences between cables and I have heard cables with no audible difference. It can be very system dependent as well.
Measurements aren't everything and the absence of them certainly doesn't make something snake oil. It looks like a different approach to HD800 modification and I can see the theoretical merit to some of the changes they make. That being said I would love to see some measurements of the SAA mod
I don't mind sending my pair to Marv or UB to have them measured. Like I said, the differences are nowhere near worth the cost in my opinion but it makes for an elegant look.
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Recent comments on HD800 seal got me thinking again about my own fit issues with the HD800. I always felt it was weird that I didn't get a good seal behind the ears and that there was a lot of pressure located on the Temporomandibular joint. I have been experimenting some more with the headband trying to get it to apply more even pressure around my ears.
It has been pretty successful so far. Even with the very open cup design getting a good seal has really improved the bass. Extension is much lower than it was before I made the adjustments. It is making me wonder about a more cushy earpad design that would be better able to provide a solid seal.
I was also thinking about something Jerg said to me. There is something special when your ears are close to the transducers. Of course this was in reference to his modded HE500, however I have been thinking this may apply as well to the HD800. By improving the fit and seal, I have increased the clamping pressure in such a way that my ears are very close to the transducer. Whether this is the effect of a better seal or ears closer to the transducers I can't be sure. Either way I am liking the improvement in sound.
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Since Stapsy brought the conversation here, I feel like its ok to continue it here. To bring up the picks I finally took, this is where I feel like I'm not getting a seal with the headphones. Not that I feel like I am hearing any detriments to sound due to lack of seal...
(http://puu.sh/8V1ft.PNG)
at the bottom between where my jaw and neck meet
(http://puu.sh/8V1hf.PNG)
and like at the top front between my upper check bone and upper head area.
Both of these are only caused by the massive size of the hd800 cups.
any ideas?
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Could you slip anything through easily into the unsealed portion? With my glasses off I do feel like there is less resistance around the pointed area but running my finger across the circumference confirms that there is still seal maintained around the areas pointed. Its just that it feels like the outer portion of the pads is not really touching(for the bottom side at least).
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Think I need ANAX 3.0 or hardwired HD800. Lately I have been having a love affair with the HD600 over the 800.
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Both of these are only caused by the massive size of the hd800 cups.
any ideas?
You could try taking off the earpads and stuffing some felt between their plastic latch and the microfiber to address the problem spots.
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/8/82/829ed4ef_pad.jpg)
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Both of these are only caused by the massive size of the hd800 cups.
any ideas?
You could try taking off the earpads and stuffing some felt between their plastic latch and the microfiber to address the problem spots.
I essentially did this with bits of memory foam in the 2 areas with a gap.
I noticed no changes. YMMV
And I too agree that placement on the head (in all 3 dimensions) does change the sound perceived.
JJ
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Good idea tode...I am trying it right now with some thick creatology foam. I stuffed in a thin strip all the way down the back of the cups and into the bottom to try to fill in the TMJ joint gap. At least it feels like the pressure is more even around the cups, can't say if there is a change in sound though.
edit: I think there may be something to this. Seems like center image is a bit sharper and more focused. I imagine it is something to do with getting the correct angle for the drivers. I ended up making a tracing of the cup so that the foam sits flush. If anyone is interested I will scan it in as a PDF to use as a starting point. My guess is this will require some experimentation with different head shapes.
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Soo.. How's the mod coming along?
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Soo.. How's the mod coming along?
Lagging behind the Leviathan and life stuff. I do apologize for the wait, if I can clear out a good 3 weeks this summer I should be able to knock it out.
Look at it this way, it should be ready by the time people get their GSX mk2s. :-* ;)
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Maxvla got his GSX-MK2.
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Maxvla got his GSX-MK2.
Max isn't an actual person. Levi testing happening this week and/or next.
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I'm a person!
So, is the plan still that a few pirates who lack d.i.y. skillz will be able to buy a set made and caressed by anax?
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I'm a person!
So, is the plan still that a few pirates who lack d.i.y. skillz will be able to buy a set made and caressed by anax?
Yup yup.
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:-DD
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I'm a person!
So, is the plan still that a few pirates who lack d.i.y. skillz will be able to buy a set made and caressed by anax?
Yup yup.
fantastic! I think I would find it pretty difficult to find the parts here in Korea
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Oh great...count me in as well.
Thanks
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Me as well, please !
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I would LOVE to get my hands on one. My DIY skills is poo
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It looks like I joined this forum at just the right time. I did actually get the GS-X mk2 before the mod but the convergence looks highly favorable! Anaxilus, please do sign me up. I have a fast PayPal trigger finger.
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:)p4
(http://i.imgur.com/g25Hm4P.jpg)
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For about a year and a half Ive lived in an apartment without neighbours so the speakers have played all my music... Moving soon and will probably have to get back into the desktop headphone hobby.
I know a Senn insider and will probably get a decent deal on a pair of 800s. Still pondering between these (modded of course) and a HE560 that seems to get a bit of praise.
Anyway after a long absence I just want to give a shout out to Anaxs project and color me a potential customer.
Ps. Apologies: my apostrophe- and comma keys are not working.
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I like my HE560, but the 800s do some things that the 560s can't. Only thing the 560s have on the 800s is the characteristic planar flat response in the bass and (lower) mids.
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Thanks for the quick heads up.
Yeah Ive had the first iteration of LCD2 and the HE5 (yes the wooden one I shouldve kept :'() and tried many others quite briefly. I own the Paradox but its bass performance is not on the same level of its open back relatives.
The HD800 Ive only heard stock. Its bass performance is even better compared to many orthos but in another way than linearity (and of course to my ears blahblah). Its just super snappy and tuneful and give a presentation of the actual instrument (acoustic or good electric) in a very listenable and convincing way.. I think theres more we dont know thats happening down there apart from what HD-measurements tell us.
And I havent even heard the 800 through recommended setups. The "snap" I mentioned of course might have to do with its upper harmonics coloration as well.
This mods promise combined with the qualities I really liked about the 800 make me lean towards their direction. I hope it doesnt hurt the fantastic bass-performance. Ill believe Anax if he says it doesnt.
Hmm maybe pair them with a Valhalla 2 and an über Bifrost? :wheel:
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I'm a person!
So, is the plan still that a few pirates who lack d.i.y. skillz will be able to buy a set made and caressed by anax?
Yup yup.
This is one of the best news I've heard in years as an HD800 owner. Sign me in too!
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i have a question: would components that synergize with the unmodded HD800 function as well with an Anax-modded HD800?
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Can you be more specific? Price range? Amps? DACs?
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i didn't have a specific example in mind, as i was under the impression that if you're altering the sound of the cans, then the components that were previously a good match for them might not be the case anymore. if we're talking specifics, i know the Questyle CMA800R is a very popular all-in-one unit for the HD800. would having the Anax mod applied change the overall synergy/sound by much?
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It can. On darker sounding setups, I'll use the HD800 without mods. The mods are not a panacea:
+ tames peak / hardness / glare
+ less bright
+ less diffuse
- less diffuse
- less open
On a setup that works with stock HD800 where you have zero issues, no point in the mod.
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precisely what i wanted to know, tyvm
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On the driver side, it actually tightens up the imaging and cleans up the CSD a bit. Some might feel clarity improves as well.
So while there's things you can do upstream to mimic some of the effects like tone, others can't be. Plus altering tone upstream usually has very real trade-offs and negative effects to the point using a HD800 instead of another phone doesn't really make much sense sometimes.
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Anax,
please count me in as a potential customer as well.
Thanks
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You can count me in too. popcorn
I'haven't any really need with my current rig but I'm very curious to try the mod and I'm afraid to be unable to build it properly with my two left hands
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For anax, purrin and other hd800 pirates,
Are there amps under or around $1000 you'd be satisfied with for the anax modded hd800?
If not, then, what's the lowest cost amp you would be satisfied with? I know that's subjective, but I'm interested and sitting in an airport.
I was thinking of just running my music from my dap- ipod 5.5 or geek wave when it comes out- to an amp to headphones. Is that a bit of a dumb idea in terms of the hd800?
Speaking of dumb, I'm just a bit worried that the hd800 ruin my enjoyment of CIEMs by being a ton more awesome. T/F?
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The Schiit Vali and the matrix hpa-2 are budget starter amps for the hd800s.
The valhalla 2 seems like a good choice based on the impressions here but I've never tried it myself.
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In my experience, The Vali is a very solid, budget amp for the 800. You could use the BH Crack with Speedball or Project Ember with the 800. Both of them are affordable and very capable with the 800.
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And another dumb question/suggestion and this might cost me my dog life but what about the O2? *runs back to the dog house*
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And another dumb question/suggestion and this might cost me my dog life but what about the O2? *runs back to the dog house*
Inferior resolution and inferior microdynamics. Better to use an entry to mid level dynamic or planar with the O2 where the capabilities are better matched. With an O2 you are just wasting your money on the HD800, it's too much transducer for it. A Vali will give you better idea or what you are missing. Assuming your source isn't garbage or recommended by Bigshot.
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Wyrd+Modi+Vali.
Best $317 USB/DAC/Amp combo for HD800.
Wyrd+Modi+Vahalla too
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Maxvla got his GSX-MK2.
Max isn't an actual person. Levi testing happening this week and/or next.
Really now...
And another dumb question/suggestion and this might cost me my dog life but what about the O2? *runs back to the dog house*
Inferior resolution and inferior microdynamics. Better to use an entry to mid level dynamic or planar with the O2 where the capabilities are better matched. With an O2 you are just wasting your money on the HD800, it's too much transducer for it. A Vali will give you better idea or what you are missing. Assuming your source isn't garbage or recommended by Bigshot.
More like no dynamics at all.
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Checked the HD800 today with only my Nokia N8 playing RATM, hah hah hah.
Okay will get serious with the amp soon :P
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Checked the HD800 today with only my Nokia N8 playing RATM, hah hah hah.
Okay will get serious with the amp soon :P
We can meet up if you'd like to try out a Vali beforehand. I'd assume they're a bit hard to find in Manila.
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Is there much of a difference between the Vali and the Valhalla 2? I don't use IEMs and them gain switches are useless to me (for now).
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n8>o2>hd800 with Beatles is already very impressive.
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Anaxilus, I am curious as to how the HD800 mod might compare to this EQ setting. This is working very well for me with the GS-X mk2 and HD800. No doubt the combination is too bright but this setting resolves all complaints. With the treble lowered, I find that the mids and bass sound smooth and right in the zone. :)p1 Without EQ, the sound is unbalanced and everything sounds lean. Also my ears hurt. :)p14
http://1drv.ms/1Aitkks
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Anaxilus, I am curious as to how the HD800 mod might compare to this EQ setting. This is working very well for me with the GS-X mk2 and HD800. No doubt the combination is too bright but this setting resolves all complaints. With the treble lowered, I find that the mids and bass sound smooth and right in the zone. :)p1 Without EQ, the sound is unbalanced and everything sounds lean. Also my ears hurt. :)p14
http://1drv.ms/1Aitkks
Not too shabby. You can look at the first page and see how the before/after CSDs look for comparison if that helps.
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I'd like to add that even the 2.0 version of the mod effect the sound MUCH more than the measurements (FR or CSD) would indicate. Just as effective as EQ with less negative results. It's worth a shot if you're having problems with treble nasties.
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Not too shabby. You can look at the first page and see how the before/after CSDs look for comparison if that helps.
Not too shabby at all. It is interesting that there seems to be little change in FR before about 3 khz. That is an impressive result from acoustic modelling. I like.
Well my EQ will keep me going until this comes out.
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I'd like to add that even the 2.0 version of the mod effect the sound MUCH more than the measurements (FR or CSD) would indicate. Just as effective as EQ with less negative results. It's worth a shot if you're having problems with treble nasties.
Good to know. I am struck by how few negative results there are from EQing. The soundstage still extends as before and clarity is only lessened by the loss of glare which to my mind is not a loss at all. If the mod does even better, that is exciting.
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now. I am struck by how few negative results there are from EQing. The soundstage still extends as before and clarity is only lessened by the loss of glare which to my mind is not a loss at all. If the mod does even better, that is exciting.
I listen to Jpop with this. Considering how 97.4% of Jpop are mastered on Myteks, I would say the Anax 2.0 is actually livable with little to no EQ depending on how you roll. The stock in comparison sounds kinda un-natural to me by now.
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I gave stock HD800 an honest shot yesterday. I lasted about an hour before I got off my ass and drove to Target to find rug pad. I then stayed up to 1am listening through all of my reference tracks. I can say without a doubt that Anax 2.0 is very listenable with a wide range of music, on par with my HD600 in that regard. It might slightly edge out the HD600 actually because of how open and comfortable it is.
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To my surprise, I have been enjoying listening today without any EQ. It happened at first by accident and I have mostly kept going throughout this lazy Chinese holiday. (Moon cake anyone? :)p13 )
This does not make me less interested in the Anaxilus 3.0. Actually it makes me even more interested. Acoustic modeling is cool stuff. I would like to see how it improves things.
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Part of it I think is that I am wearing the HD800 differently now - and I believe properly. I have moved up a notch on the headband instead of riding low and the cups are placed forward. I am getting a better seal and things seem to be a bit less bright.
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Part of it I think is that I am wearing the HD800 differently now - and I believe properly. I have moved up a notch on the headband instead of riding low and the cups are placed forward. I am getting a better seal and things seem to be a bit less bright.
Oh definitely crucial. I'm at 7 clicks myself.
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I have some of noob questions:
- For the purpose of reducing the HD800 highs and 6K spike, what is the difference between Anax mod vs. EQ (some pro-audio VST/AU in the music playback software)? Other than the convenience of not having to deal with the EQ, does the hardware mod allows changes that are hard/impossible to do on the EQ side?
- If a given HD800 does not show the 6K spike on the FR measurements from Sennheiser, will the Anax mod reduce the 6K spike "too much"? Just wondering here if the variance of HD800 FR might result in the mod doing unintended sonic changes.
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The Anax uses a semi-porous material (rug liner lol) that also absorbs some of the soundwaves which reflect from the mesh of the cups. I believe Arnaud ran a simulation of the HD800 on HF which seemed to indicate that the 6k peak was caused by the cup design of the HD800 (the internal dimensions, shape, cavity, materials, of the cup against the head).
It turns out Arnaud's simulation was correct. The measurements seen here are against a block of foam. Adding the material with the consequence of aborbing a good portion the reflect waves results in a less diffuse sound. Think of it was the equivalent of putting absorb panels in room with speakers.
The mod results in a less diffuse stage and more precise imaging. However the mod also takes away a certain level of openness or diffuseness which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The Anax mod version 2.0 described here if implemented with the foam rings will also elevate the bass and lower mids as a result of less leakage (I run the mod with the rug liner as described here and have since eliminated the foam rings - I encourage people to experiment.)
I guess you could say that the mod addresses the root of the problem vs. the symptoms. Some people don't like the mod because they prefer the more diffuse open sound. It depends on the rest of the system and what recordings you listen to as well.
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Part of it I think is that I am wearing the HD800 differently now - and I believe properly. I have moved up a notch on the headband instead of riding low and the cups are placed forward. I am getting a better seal and things seem to be a bit less bright.
Oh definitely crucial. I'm at 7 clicks myself.
Curious...I'm at 5 clicks. And I don't have a small head.
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Part of it I think is that I am wearing the HD800 differently now - and I believe properly. I have moved up a notch on the headband instead of riding low and the cups are placed forward. I am getting a better seal and things seem to be a bit less bright.
Oh definitely crucial. I'm at 7 clicks myself.
I guess I don't either. ;) I count the first indent BTW.
Curious...I'm at 5 clicks. And I don't have a small head.
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I'm still just using "Tyll's" version of this Mod(w/ the larger ring) & no liner, as I have'nt had any success figuring out how to get the liner to lie flat against the inside of the earcups. Actually in my setup & with any of the source material I play through them I the improvement I've noticed is very good (Maybe a tiny bit of ear fatigue after 6 hours or more; & that's only a maybe). (I don't listen to "studio recorded" or basically any "non-Acoustic" based music if that has bearing on how well the mod is working)
I'm willing to trust the"ears" here that the "Liner" version is even better, so any direction to do this version would be appreciated ! (5 clicks on the headband here also; maybe we're all clones !!! Oh no !! we may not be human)
Oh one other thing , I am using the rug liner on another set of headphones,my Hfm HE 6s. When I was regrilling the 6s I removed all the damping material from that side of the headphones . There was an increase in openness & bass response,but there was also an increase in making them sound a bit "distant". I happened to look over at the sparsely used rug liner & wondered if I changed the grille material to window screen material & attached a circle of liner to the
screen w/small pieces of breadties how this would work. I kind of like how this is starting to sound. In fact I think I'll give them a listen after I move my volume up & switch cans.
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Deleted.
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Is that the Creatology Foamboard under the liner ?
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Deleted.
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I don't listen to any music files lower than 24bit/88.2 Khz so maybe that's why I don't find Tyll's version to be invasive, but having heard a few times that the liner version is better I'll give that a try. (I don't know who voiced the stock HD800s & to be truthful I think they were voiced to work with much lower priced equipment)
After listening to the HD800s for a while the "midrange" suckout on the HE 6 is really noticible, comparatively. I'll have to remember not to do that too often
Oh yeah, thanks for mentioning the liner goes in by itself
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I don't listen to any music files lower than 24bit/88.2 Khz so maybe that's why I don't find Tyll's version to be invasive, but having heard a few times that the liner version is better I'll give that a try. (I don't know who voiced the stock HD800s & to be truthful I think they were voiced to work with much lower priced equipment)
After listening to the HD800s for a while the "midrange" suckout on the HE 6 is really noticible, comparatively. I'll have to remember not to do that too often
Oh yeah, thanks for mentioning the liner goes in by itself
For more midrange presence, I recommend to use perforated felt disc inserted underneath pads on each side.
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I got my HD800 certificate. There be that spike...
(http://<iframe src="https://onedrive.live.com/embed?cid=D307FA1F46FC44B6&resid=D307FA1F46FC44B6%2116263&authkey=AC61eX6dNyGFMZA" width="320" height="180" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>)
My attempts to embed pictures are an ongoing failure. :(
http://1drv.ms/1rZEDzH
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Give me a piece of Mahogany, several different templates & jigs, )access to different shop tools (stationary power & hand) & I can make a guitar neck . (It's been many years since I've made
anything this "ambitious" & I'm sure it would take me longer then it should, but it's "doable")
Working with "shelf liner" on the other hand is a much greater PITA. ( I know it's simply a matter
of a "piss poor" attitude & not getting "properly jigged up" to work with the stuff ; I need a stationary tool w/ a pull down lever & a perfectly shaped sharp cutter that will cut out the perfectly shaped pieces of liner on 1 pull of the lever; I told you a had a bad attitude)
My hand cut pieces on the other hand actually do work , but "they ain't pretty" & for no logical reason knowing they could be more visually correct will bother me enough to rip them out & start over ! Maybe not on second thought ! (Sorry if I bored anyone)
(This is on the pieces for the HD800/ which I'm starting to prefer over the HE 6) (No forget that;
the HE 6 just took a pretty nice step up the performance ladder w/ my adding small liner discs underneath the openings of the AKG K702 Earpads I'm using on the HE 6; so for "me" the HD800
go back to a subjective 2nd place)
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Hi all, my first post here.
Good mod but seems to kill low bass of the HD800. Is there a way to fix the mod to keep bass performance of stock HD800?
Regards,
Jeremiah
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Hi all, my first post here.
Good mod but seems to kill low bass of the HD800. Is there a way to fix the mod to keep bass performance of stock HD800?
Regards,
Jeremiah
I'm sorry, what?
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Letting the HE-6 go to try an HD800. I'd also be interested in purchasing the packaged mod when you get around to it :)
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Hi all, my first post here.
Good mod but seems to kill low bass of the HD800. Is there a way to fix the mod to keep bass performance of stock HD800?
Regards,
Jeremiah
Not sure what you did, but the mod should not affect bass response of the HD800 by any large margin.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HD800compareRightFR.pdf
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Hi all, my first post here.
Good mod but seems to kill low bass of the HD800. Is there a way to fix the mod to keep bass performance of stock HD800?
Regards,
Jeremiah
I'm sorry, what?
Sorry, English is not my first language.
I mean stock HD800 has better bass than the mod version so how to alter the damping to keep bass like stock?
Hi all, my first post here.
Good mod but seems to kill low bass of the HD800. Is there a way to fix the mod to keep bass performance of stock HD800?
Regards,
Jeremiah
Not sure what you did, but the mod should not affect bass response of the HD800 by any large margin.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HD800compareRightFR.pdf
I asked my daughter to do the cutting. Perhaps I should ask someone else for neater work.
Do you think unsticking the foam ring but keeping the shelf liner would improve bass response?
Regards,
Jeremiah
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Get rid of the foam ring underneath. A few of us don't use it anymore.
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Is there any "commercial" versoon coming yet or was it abandoned?
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Get rid of the foam ring underneath. A few of us don't use it anymore.
Just get a rug-sticky and follow the template, eh? Did you end up picking up a pair of used HD800's? Been a while since I've lurked around.
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Is there any "commercial" versoon coming yet or was it abandoned?
Read the last few pages please.
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@purr1n - what type of change have you noticed from removing the base layer creatology foam ring?
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Oh, I see, you keep the trapezoid foam, just not the ring?
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@purr1n - what type of change have you noticed from removing the base layer creatology foam ring?
The rings make the sound too thick - warm. Sort of causes an imbalance with the mids which seem pushed down in relation. HD800 is hard to fight.
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I tried out some variations of the mod this weekend. I went ahead and added the felt + foam trapezoid which seems to be the most important first step. Couldn't hear any negative differences. Less reflections in the cup are a good step forward.
I had some rug liner on hand, but its the really coarse junk and it proved to make no difference to me subjectively and I found it didn't make much of a difference on the measurements either.
Next I tried the foam + felt rings. Definitely takes away from the fatiguing nature of the HD800 but takes a lot away from space. FR is overall more U-shaped. Crispness of cymbals and snares are greatly reduced.
I have some better shelf/run liner on order (the link posted) and I hope to see some better changes with that.
I may have to try the foam without felt, is that what the original intent of the 2.0 mod was? Foam, no felt, and rug liner?
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We never ever used felt.
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We never ever used felt.
Bingo. I must have gotten overzealous and confused this mod with Tyll's.
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.Anyone try http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0044WWKMG?cache=e597ff47641ee2a9e64c3a12363aa83f&pi=SY200_QL40&qid=1412824388&sr=8-2# for the liner? I've got the itch to play around with the mod again.
Or maybe this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002AS9NAI?cache=e597ff47641ee2a9e64c3a12363aa83f&pi=SY200_QL40&qid=1412825879&sr=8-1#
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.Anyone try http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0044WWKMG?cache=e597ff47641ee2a9e64c3a12363aa83f&pi=SY200_QL40&qid=1412824388&sr=8-2# for the liner? I've got the itch to play around with the mod again.
Or maybe this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002AS9NAI?cache=e597ff47641ee2a9e64c3a12363aa83f&pi=SY200_QL40&qid=1412825879&sr=8-1#
Yup. already tried both long ago. Try it, see what you think.
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Thanks for the feedback. Any other materials you could recommend I should try out?
I haven't pulled out the mod since I originally put it in. Anyone have trouble with left behind adhesive, and what did you use to clean it up?
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Cotton ball and rubbing alcohol should work fine.
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Cotton ball and rubbing alcohol should work fine.
Yup.
Best to dab the Creatology foam on your t-shirt first before applying. This will reduce the need for removing adhesive later on.
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Fire will get rid of the adhesive. Also everything else.
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It's good to have a backup plan.
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I'd certainly be in for this mod, if it is released publicly. I'm on the Anax 2.0 and like it, but am always open to improvements.
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Sigh...the HD800 is just so tough to get consistent measurements with. I'm finding that all sorts of differences in the modded cup itself and the coupler of choice interact differently. Using a CD against the foam gives all sorts of weird treble resonances, while using without any hard material (including high density foam) gives cleaner treble but with serious roll-off below 200Hz. Position on coupler alters things greatly as well, much more than other headphones.
I think if we want the best representation of how the mods to the cup affect the perceived sound, we should be looking at measurements that get closest to a "free-air" system. Coupling directly to the foam (or sponge) might be the answer since we only care about decay in the treble. Maybe I should try sticking a mic in the HD800 without any coupler at all to see what sort of results I would get.
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Sigh...the HD800 is just so tough to get consistent measurements with. I'm finding that all sorts of differences in the modded cup itself and the coupler of choice interact differently. Using a CD against the foam gives all sorts of weird treble resonances, while using without any hard material (including high density foam) gives cleaner treble but with serious roll-off below 200Hz. Position on coupler alters things greatly as well, much more than other headphones.
I think if we want the best representation of how the mods to the cup affect the perceived sound, we should be looking at measurements that get closest to a "free-air" system. Coupling directly to the foam (or sponge) might be the answer since we only care about decay in the treble. Maybe I should try sticking a mic in the HD800 without any coupler at all to see what sort of results I would get.
That's what we did. No CD or plate. We also found the same as you that just millimeters off in positioning could alter the measurements. Same with certain materials used for modding. Tried explaining this to some folks who seemed to just roll their eyes.
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Sigh...the HD800 is just so tough to get consistent measurements with. I'm finding that all sorts of differences in the modded cup itself and the coupler of choice interact differently. Using a CD against the foam gives all sorts of weird treble resonances, while using without any hard material (including high density foam) gives cleaner treble but with serious roll-off below 200Hz. Position on coupler alters things greatly as well, much more than other headphones.
I think if we want the best representation of how the mods to the cup affect the perceived sound, we should be looking at measurements that get closest to a "free-air" system. Coupling directly to the foam (or sponge) might be the answer since we only care about decay in the treble. Maybe I should try sticking a mic in the HD800 without any coupler at all to see what sort of results I would get.
That's what we did. No CD or plate. We also found the same as you that just millimeters off in positioning could alter the measurements. Same with certain materials used for modding. Tried explaining this to some folks who seemed to just roll their eyes.
omg no wonder, I get funny arse resonances with the CD and foam as well. I found putting the mic close to the driver to get the closest results but thought that you guys still used some kinda coupling mechanism.
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If only we could get our hands on a bit of human skin...
(http://www.audienceseverywhere.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Buffalo-Bill.jpg)
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With all versions of the Anax mod, are the dust covers typically left out? Just wondering.
thanks...
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Is this still up and coming, or did Don just not update the OP...?
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With all versions of the Anax mod, are the dust covers typically left out? Just wondering.
thanks...
Yes
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Doesn't that make things even brighter? I have the Anax 2.0 mod in place, and its definitely better than stock, but I would still say it is on the bright side of things (or what I'm used to), hopefully the Valhalla 2 will make it a bit more balanced.
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Unless you're running different tubes, the stock valhalla 2 leans towards the bright side.
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Doesn't that make things even brighter?
Relative to stock? No. The CSDs shown are uncovered so you can judge stock (covered) versus modded (uncovered). Of course you could keep the covers on if you like that sound better. I can't say what is too bright or not bright enough for other people. I can say I usually have an aversion to anything in front of my drivers whether headphones or speakers. It's something my ears pick up immediately and annoys me immensely, pulls me right of the music.
Just do whatever sounds best to you.
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Get rid of the foam ring underneath. A few of us don't use it anymore.
Thank you for the tip, seems to work well. Don't think mod version has imaging and transparency as good as stock but it's a good compromise.
Regards,
Jeremiah
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Get rid of the foam ring underneath. A few of us don't use it anymore.
Thank you for the tip, seems to work well. Don't think mod version has imaging and transparency as good as stock but it's a good compromise.
Regards,
Jeremiah
Hah! If it didn't improve over stock you did something wrong.
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Thank you for the tip, seems to work well. Don't think mod version has imaging and transparency as good as stock but it's a good compromise.
Regards,
Jeremiah
Hah! If it didn't improve over stock you did something wrong.
Sorry for my poor English. It's definitely better than stock, more smooth and relaxing but I think stock is still the best in imaging and transparency.
Regards,
Jeremiah
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Relative to stock? No. The CSDs shown are uncovered so you can judge stock (covered) versus modded (uncovered). Of course you could keep the covers on if you like that sound better. I can't say what is too bright or not bright enough for other people. I can say I usually have an aversion to anything in front of my drivers whether headphones or speakers. It's something my ears pick up immediately and annoys me immensely, pulls me right of the music.
Just do whatever sounds best to you.
I used to run out direct out of my TC Electronic Konnekt 8. I tried it today with the Geek 450 -> leckerton UHA-6mk2, and was pleasantly surprised by the huge difference. I'm afraid that the dac/amp combo I have used for so many years isn't nearly as good as I thought it was. Saving up for a Gungnir + Valhalla 2 combo to use with my HD800 and Paradox headphones, but for now the Geek Out + UHA-6 is the best combo I have here.
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Sorry for my poor English. It's definitely better than stock, more smooth and relaxing but I think stock is still the best in imaging and transparency.
Regards,
Jeremiah
Your English is fine. My point is I have never heard a properly modded HD800 have worse imaging and transparency than stock. if you'd like to post a pic of your mods maybe we could find out why you hear it as such. That, or our definitions of imaging and transparency are different.
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Don`t know if it`s the right place to post, but anyways, you guys are going to love it.
Sennheiser Factory Tour, mostly HD800. headbang
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5es8zggYM7A&list=UUXuqSBlHAE6Xw-yeJA0Tunw
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Crossing my fingers for the kit to be available in 2015.
In the meantime, I have a couple of questions about the method for anax 2.0.
With my understanding, I'm supposed to:
- cut the creatology foam with the ring on the left of purrin's PDF cutout
- cut the non-slip carpet material with the size of the right on the right of purrin's PDF cutout
- put the non-slip material on top of the foam
- leave the dust cover out.
I hope I didn't mess up with any steps. Or did I? p:/
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try the non-slip rug stuff by itself first. If you enjoy it, skip the creatology.
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Thanks ZF. I've been using CTH so it's been taking the edge off of the higher end so the brightness doesn't stand out to me that much.
But I'm in transition between amp and I will be with UHA-6smkii until the Rag comes in early Jan (ojala).
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Crossing my fingers for the kit to be available in 2015.
Funny you mention it. I was just working on it the last couple days. ;)
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I stole the materials inside Anax's HD800 for the good of everyone who's waiting for 3.0. Now he has to get back to work on making another one or face the wrath of the face-tweeter. :)p3
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I stole the materials inside Anax's HD800 for the good of everyone who's waiting for 3.0. Now he has to get back to work on making another one or face the wrath of the face-tweeter. :)p3
That's an interesting interpretation of reality. I like it!!
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Funny you mention it. I was just working on it the last couple days. ;)
Color me happy. One of the most waited surprise of 2015 for me, besides Yggy.
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Build list started here: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2043.0.html
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I stole the materials inside Anax's HD800 for the good of everyone who's waiting for 3.0. Now he has to get back to work on making another one or face the wrath of the face-tweeter. :)p3
Can you give us some brief descriptions for those of us waiting so we can salivate a bit?
:)
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Is the Anax 2.0 supposed to work best without original dust covers or are they just put off for the pictures?
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Is the Anax 2.0 supposed to work best without original dust covers or are they just put off for the pictures?
Without. The dust covers actually reduce low level detail retrieval a bit.
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Since I'm a schmuck who has less than 2 brain cells, would any pirates be kind enough to snap a picture of the inside for Anax 2.0 mod? I can't seem to make the rug settle down and it keeps hitting my earlobe.
Much appreciated!
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In the meantime, im thinking of doing the v2.0 mod once my HD800s come in - i cant find the Creatology Foam Sheet or Rug Pad, but i do have the shelf liner from Jergs 560 mod http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B001TGOAHI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00 will this do? or do you guys think its too thin to do what the Rug Pad does?
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In the meantime, im thinking of doing the v2.0 mod once my HD800s come in - i cant find the Creatology Foam Sheet or Rug Pad, but i do have the shelf liner from Jergs 560 mod http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B001TGOAHI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00 will this do? or do you guys think its too thin to do what the Rug Pad does?
Links can be found here (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,497.msg9997.html#msg9997). Though I'm not sure if there are equivalents for Amazon.ca
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Links can be found here (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,497.msg9997.html#msg9997). Though I'm not sure if there are equivalents for Amazon.ca
Thanks - but youre right theres no equiv links for amazon.ca or micheals.ca unfortunately, and amazon.com/michaels.com dont ship to Canada. I'll probably visit walmart and see if i can dig them up.
So theres two layers? The rug liner on top of the (adhesive) foam?
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Thanks - but youre right theres no equiv links for amazon.ca or micheals.ca unfortunately, and amazon.com/michaels.com dont ship to Canada. I'll probably visit walmart and see if i can dig them up.
So theres two layers? The rug liner on top of the (adhesive) foam?
Yes.
Can someone supply a better template for the rug liner? It looks like the pdf is from a picture of it inside the cup, not taken out and laid flat. When I try to use it to cut the liner, it doesn't really fit right.
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Guys - You just need to experiment with it and find what works for you. Depending on the system and your preferences, you may want to tweak it differently. I believe this is why it really hasn't been spelled out in terms of what you "need to do". Based on what's been said by quite a few members, I think the majority of us are currently running the trapezoid piece and the rug liner, but are not using the ring around the driver. Here's a bad phone pic of what I've been using for the past few months (I may try retweaking it soon, in order to cover a bit more of the metal ring around the driver):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/truckyj/asdfasdf_zpsipuand64.jpg~original) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/truckyj/media/asdfasdf_zpsipuand64.jpg.html)
Can someone supply a better template for the rug liner? It looks like the pdf is from a picture of it inside the cup, not taken out and laid flat. When I try to use it to cut the liner, it doesn't really fit right.
The template's a starting point; work the shape in to something that you can fit. I cut mine around the trapezoid so that it fits the curvature of the cup better. I use 5 small pieces of removable 3M double sided Scotch tape to hold it in place. Stays in place and can be easily taken out for cleaning, etc.
So theres two layers? The rug liner on top of the (adhesive) foam?
Correct. Adhesive foam down first (whatever you choose to do there) and Rug liner second.
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Hello people,
Last night we had a small experiment in a small private meet. We compare a stock and my modified HD800 out of Sennheiser HDVD 800. Source is a Chord Hugo TT connected to an iPhone 6+.
For your information, my HD800 only has the shelf liner according to purr1n's recommendation. It's around 2mm thick.
Our finding is interesting. We tried to do a small blind test and there is an agreement that the modified HD800 sound more detailed than the stock unit, especially in the midrange.
I wonder whether you people feel the same thing about the modified HD800?
Regards,
Jeremiah
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Well, I've always personally contended that the dust covers veil the detail on the HD800. My own statements in that regard have fallen on deaf ears... rather no comment. I've been running stock with the Crack amp for a couple years and finally broke down and put together a mainline which was a huge improvement. I'd forgotten about removing the dust covers until now. The mainline is a real detail oriented amp but still very smooth and polite with the HD800. The mainline has potential to run nicely with the dust covers removed, but a better replacement is still required. So here I am. :)p15
I didn't find the thicker rug liner locally yet, but I did find thinner shelf liner at Wal-mart. 'Duck' branded 'Select grip' easy liner. I've also found double sided tape to adhere to the shelf liner a bit too much and if you need to replace then you're possibly cutting out new liner. I've since tried out Scotch reusable tabs. Seems to adhere to the liner and cups in place enough so far and there is no fight at all removing it. Apparently the Scotch reusable adhesive can be washed if it accumulates too much oil and starts to loose its grip.
The shape cut is a bit of a challenge. After refitting just liner and the trapezoid piece craptology foam I think its the best mix, but I'm convinced the easy liner that I'm currently using is not quite dampening the shells quite enough compared to the original dust covers. So what I hear currently is a ton of space and detail and the trapezoid is doing thing. Its all a bit on the hot side. A lot of my inner metal ring that holds the driver in place is exposed. I believe that is also contributing to the hard effect I'm still hearing. With the craptology ring it was over-damped.
I'm thinking to use the current ring pattern to cut a layer of shelf(rug when I find it) liner to get that covered properly since exposed it definitely adds to the 'hard' nature of when you have the headphone running without the dust cover. I'm planning to that cut ring and bond it to the my existing liner using double sided tape for a permanent bond. I hope the result will be a dust cover shaped section of liner that fits in like the original. I'll report back how that works when I have time to get to it.
Definitely have to find the rug liner. The easy grip shelf liner better than no dust cover, but its not cutting it.
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I've been using the HD800s without dust covers for some time now. Several of my friends also confirmed that it "unveils" the HD800s in terms of detail/clarity, and never looked back since. As heard on my EC no headphones I've heard so far quite match the HD800s in terms of macro-detail. Add some Yggdrasil to that, and this sh** is not for the faint-hearted.
I only use the rug liner and no dust covers. For the rug liner to fit better, I've cut half way through 6 points around the corners so it folds better inside. That's it and this is the best I've found so far. Credit to lojay for some of his suggestions.
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I'm a bit embarrassed but I have to admit than I just discovered my hd800 sounds better without the dust covers. Clarity and resolution have improved. It's time for me to try the mod now. The brightness improved a bit as well.
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I've a mind here to cut up my original dust covers. :)p13
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Well I didn't cut em up, but I did make heavier rug grip rings same size as the metal driver surrounds. They are adhered with .5x.5cm scotch reusable squares about 1.5 cm apart to add to the dampening to the ring. The heavier rug material wins over the thinner slight margin for total cohesion. I've either in either ear right now, so its a bit weird.
But getting it right with the trapezoid and the metal driver surround appears to be critical. I'm totally floored right now. Haha. No pun intended.
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Redacted.
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Hi people,
Is it safe using the HD800 without the dust cover? Would not oil, dust and fine hairs get into the driver?
Regards,
Jeremiah
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Hi people,
Is it safe using the HD800 without the dust cover? Would not oil, dust and fine hairs get into the driver?
Regards,
Jeremiah
Sennheiser put some panty hose in front of the driver to prevent that. Stuff does get attracted there if you keep the covers off so I use my record brush to pull that crap off.
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Sennheiser put some panty hose in front of the driver to prevent that. Stuff does get attracted there if you keep the covers off so I use my record brush to pull that crap off.
Yup, with the dust cover off, the driver is still protected by it's primary cover/grill assembly. The dust cover is secondary for protection.
Also for dust, use a low tack tape like you would a lint remover. Use a few gentle dabs:
(http://fiberglasssupplydepot.com/images/P/BLUE%20TAPE2.jpg)
Glad you guys were able to do a BT to confirm. I've been advocating this for ages and it's integral to the mod. Now if you have speakers at home, try removing the grill covers and have a listen. ;)
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Glad you guys were able to do a BT to confirm. I've been advocating this for ages and it's integral to the mod. Now if you have speakers at home, try removing the grill covers and have a listen. ;)
You cannot be serious. These were exactly my thoughts: Who in their right minds with a serious speaker rig, uses the cloth grills attached. Then why would anyone do this to their headphones.
If you think of it the rug liner is quite smart in reproducing an irregular room acoustic treatment. The more irregular the better.
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Glad you guys were able to do a BT to confirm. I've been advocating this for ages and it's integral to the mod. Now if you have speakers at home, try removing the grill covers and have a listen. ;)
Yup. I read when you said that and I thought "this motherfucker is mad or told us bullshits " .... once heard, I thought "fuck! This motherfucker told the truth"
Notice that in both case you're a motherfucker. That's the most important point to remember in this story. :)p13
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The French are evolving...learning to curse like Americans :P
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The French are evolving...learning to curse like Americans :P
I thought all Americans thought we were a smelly, rural and foulmouthed people. Have I been misinformed ... ?
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I thought all Americans thought we were a smelly, rural and foulmouthed people. Have I been misinformed ... ?
Yes, that would be Italians. Americans think the French are all like Parisians. Pretentious arrogant cynics that suck at fighting but are really good at math. ;D
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Yes, that would be Italians. Americans think the French are all like Parisians. Pretentious arrogant cynics. ;D
Oh my bad. Italians it is then.
Now for the Parisians, for once it's spot on. Motherfuckers pretentious arrogant pricks. You have to get out of Paris to really see France :)
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I love Paris but I'm not Parisian. I'm arrogant and cynic though.
@anaxilus : did you ever try to cut a hole in the dust covers in order to be able to free the drive AND keep the damping effect of the dust cover around the driver?
(http://pix.toile-libre.org/upload/img/1433510937.jpg) (http://pix.toile-libre.org/?img=1433510937.jpg)
(http://pix.toile-libre.org/upload/img/1433510976.jpg) (http://pix.toile-libre.org/?img=1433510976.jpg)
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Someone has a free day ... I don't think the dust cover is as thick or able to cut the reflections as the rug liner, but who knows. What do you think of it ? Any change ?
And we are all cynics, those who aren't are just living in the world of care bears. :)p3
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Someone has a free day ...
Yes I drunk too much vodka last night... so in order to forget my headache, I thought is was fun to destroy one or two dust covers.
I need more time and Serious comparison (and less alcohol remaining in my blood) to give any serious opinion.
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I'd never mod anything when hungover. Too risky ...
Have you found a suitable replacement for the creatology foam and felt ?
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Yes. Remember too, the issues and measurements people have experienced with the HD800 are with those covers on. At least you won't be needing those anymore. :)p13
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Aplied Rug Liner in HD800 cups. I used my bastarized Dust covers as pattern to cut the Rug liner at the right size and it fit without any glue. :)p3
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Just signed up for the upcoming anax 3.0 mod. Just wondering is there any cons to the anax 2/3 mod ?
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any progress report, anax?
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Jeff, your perception of the HD800 is very dependent on what you plug them into. It's a serious commitment to the transducers capabilities. If you aren't willing to go 'all in' in the neighborhood of 1-2K worth of upstream gear, I'd say avoid it or save up. I had to live w/ the HD800 from a DACPort for 4 months while the Super 7 was being developed and built. That is to say, I never listened to them and everytime I tried they were just like the critics say. But I was fine with this having heard the 800 from the DACPort, Super7 and WA5 at a meet.
The 800 sounded just as bad as all the stories when I first heard them at the meet using my DACPort. Then I met Craig and plugged them into the Super7 once the crowd dispersed and did a 'wooaahh'. Then found a maxed out WA5 that purrin hooked his PWD into and did another 'wooaahh'! I was in planar camp at the time w/ the T50rp and LCD2. It was after that I did some audio calculus and felt the 800 was the best for me once I felt I had the transducer figured out based on actual experience. It was the last thing I ever wanted to do, build a whole system around one phone. Insane! So I went all in and bought the HD800 and looked at them sitting there for 4 months because they were about as enjoyable as rice cakes.
Treble. If you listen medium to low volume, you won't have a problem. That is unless your gear fails to deliver the bass and dynamics to prevent you from cranking up the volume to flatten out the FR. Hoe that helps.
I too have been vaccillating over whether or not to go down the HD 800 path. My first encounter with them was "OMFG these things are SOOOO bright and abnormally spacey sounding!" After repeated listenings whenever I've gone down to the headphone store, they gradually started to grow on me. But I still found them too glarey/prickly with certain tracks/genres. I finally decided I'd bloody well make the mod materials and try them out. So I found some 2mm kiddie-crafty foam and shelf/rug liner-type material (I don't know if it's as thick the stuff Marv/Mike used - being in Taiwan I takes what I's can gets) and had some felty type stuff leftover from my K7XX mod attempt.
Upstream gear:
- iFi iDAC2 (I know, I know), I usually take my micro iDSD which sounds the same to me (and better than the nano) :)p8
- Note 3 playing 16/44.1 FLAC
I made the innerfidelity Omega foam/felt sandwich as per Tyll (like on the floor)'s instructions and popped it in under the dust cover (no adhesive, it more or less stayed in position). The highs were tamed a bit, but not nearly enough. I then popped the shelf/rug liner donuts on top of Tyll's Omegas. Better. Still a touch glarey. I had to play them pretty loud in the store environment so that probably didn't help either. I listened to the HD 600 while I was there and the bass was too woolly and highs rolled off in comparison.
The clarity/soundstage of the HD 800s is very appealing, but I couldn't use them for all my music with the gear I have now and the mod as above. I guess more can be done tweaking the mod as I'm willing to sacrifice some stage/clarity for reduced glare and increased bass. Perhaps the nastiness I'm hearing is actually what's there in the recording (notwithstanding upstream gear contributions), and the HD 800 is revealing it.
My setup has to be semi-portable (and affordable), so going from the Best Amps for thread, the best I could do would be a Schiit Vali/Valhalla2 that I could plunk on the coffee table next to my laptop and micro iDSD.
I really enjoy my ZMF Blackwood which I'd like to leave at the office and am debating between the HD 800, ZMF Omni or both for home. Comments, suggestions, iFi abuse are all welcome
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If you're gonna go with the HD800, you're going to want to get the right amp for them. I didn't care for them out of the Valhalla 2, but from a modded Super 7? Totally different story. At least, that's my opinion.
What did you run the HD600 out of when you tested it?
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Today I had my iDAC2. In order to use my own tunes, consistency, and reduce variables, I usually try and run everything off of my Note 3 + micro iDSD stack. I realize that this might not give the optimum sound for amp dependent phones, but when I was shopping around for a portable DAC/amp, with "easier to drive" phones, I couldn't hear much difference between them, desktop units like the Oppo HA-1, and directly out of my Note 3. I definitely heard a difference with the HD 800 (I think I plugged them into my phone just for laughs).
Spending a ton of $ on an amp just for the HD 800 is not feasible for me. If I could tweak it so it didn't make me wince every now and then, I think I wouldn't mind having one. I could probably live with converting it from the audio microscope that it is to just a half-decent magnifying glass, since my ears probably aren't good enough to see the difference.
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You could always get a pair and poke around with your own mods, but I really can't stress enough how much you'll want to save for a really nice tube amp to pair with it down the road. It will literally change your life and make you a healthier, more optimistic person for the rest of your life. Maybe a slight exaggeration.
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You could always get a pair and poke around with your own mods, but I really can't stress enough how much you'll want to save for a really nice tube amp to pair with it down the road. It will literally change your life and make you a healthier, more optimistic person for the rest of your life. Maybe a slight exaggeration.
There's a Schiit dealer in Taipei and I called down to check if they have the Vali and Valhalla2, which they did. Brought my micro iDSD this time. The Vali didn't sound much different to me than the micro's amp. At first I thought the V2 toned downed the highs a bit (I think there was better stage too, but I wasn't trying to listen for that). Dude turned me down when I asked if I could put the mods in, but I popped in Tyll's Omegas when nobody was looking. The effect was much better than what I remember from yesterday. I didn't put the rug liner in as they're too fiddly, but out of both the micro and the V2, a couple of problem tracks were almost listenable with just Anax Mod 1.innerfidelity. And comparing high/low freq response between the V2 and micro (with mod in), in the end I couldn't hear any difference in the highs and actually found the micro to have more bass.
This makes me more optimistic about starting down the HD 800 path. I seems like I should be able to get them to an OK state with the gear I have, and then look for the right amp to "change my life and make me a healthier, [even] more optimistic person." Next time, I'll bring both my micro iDSD and iDAC2 to verify that the iDAC2 sounds more glary/prickly, and test the micro iDSD with Anax Mod 2.innerfidelity.
Incidentally (and completely OT), they just got the Rag and Yggy in. I asked if they'd let the Yggy warm up for a week or at least left it plugged in and got a weird look back. Then it turned out the Rag already had an owner who came in to pick it up. They actually put on white gloves to box it up facepalm
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So I bought shelf liner & cut a few pieces.
I'm supposed to just remove the dust cover & glue them around there right?
I don't need to unscrew or remove any thing additionally?
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no glue. They should rest right there.
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Not not noticing a difference.
Tested a song that had some serious sibilance & it still has it.
Though my cut of the shelf liner was crooked as f*ck, not covering all of the metal parts & some of the liner even covering up parts of the actual driver.
No pdf templates for the correct shelf liner cuts? All I seen are the ones for the memory foam sheets.
Speaking of which, tomorrow I'll go get some memory foam & felt sheets at a art supply store & see how they work.
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Just throw the HD800 away. Lots of people don't like the HD800, with mods or without.
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Ok, my google-fu seems weak today. Probably something to do with being under the weather at the moment.
Does someone have a quick pointer to the post with a description of the Rabid Dawg mods and how to procure? I found Marv's CSD results.