CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Marvey on December 01, 2011, 10:07:55 PM
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Audio Technica ATH-W3000ANV Frequency Response
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32.0;attach=36;image)
The Audio Technica woodies are very hard to measure because of their design. The driver baffle is semi-open to allow a delayed back wave to augment the forward wave. This probably accounts for their romantic or weird sound depending upon how you hear it. As always, no smoothing is applied. What I will do is investigate further by taking an open or small baffle measurement of just the driver itself.
UPDATE - FR measurement of the driver without the cup:
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32.0;attach=34;image)
I guess the driver is just screwy. CSDs will tell more, but none of those until tonight at earliest.
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WOW!
I gotta hear those!!!
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Audio Technica need to start learning how to use their own microphones!!!! Looks pretty much how I picture every ATH woody sounding. My mouth makes a similar shape when I listen to them.
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Well, the W3000 does seem a bit more tame than the other's I've heard. Not as aggressive. I guess you can say they are like some of the better AKG's. The W3000 actually sounds good out of warmish portable sources and laptop outs. The FR is totally unsmooth after the midrange, but those peaks, other than the one at 11k, don't push out past the area from the upper bass to the midrange, which is pretty flat.
If you take a look at the AD2000, that one's more scary because it's just a lot of treble energy.
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Well, the W3000 does seem a bit more tame than the other's I've heard. Not as aggressive. I guess you can say they are like some of the better AKG's. The W3000 actually sounds good out of warmish portable sources and laptop outs. The FR is totally unsmooth after the midrange, but those peaks, other than the one at 11k, don't push out past the area from the upper bass to the midrange, which is pretty flat.
If you take a look at the AD2000, that one's more scary because it's just a lot of treble energy.
Interesting....
Do you have these in your possession atm or are they making a tour as well? I'd love to hear them Monday night.
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So basically they sound like a 1500000 dollar Sextett? (where's the evil smiley?)
LFF, are you giving yourself karma points over there? Geeeeeeeeeze
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LFF, are you giving yourself karma points over there? Geeeeeeeeeze
Yes....I am awesome. :D
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Audio Technica ATH-W3000ANV Frequency Response
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32.0;attach=36;image)
The Audio Technica woodies are very hard to measure because of their design. The driver baffle is semi-open to allow a delayed back wave to augment the forward wave. This probably accounts for their romantic or weird sound depending upon how you hear it. As always, no smoothing is applied. What I will do is investigate further by taking an open or small baffle measurement of just the driver itself.
UPDATE - FR measurement of the driver without the cup:
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32.0;attach=34;image)
I guess the driver is just screwy. CSDs will tell more, but none of those until tonight at earliest.
Plotting master, did you do CSD plots of W3000ANV ? I would much appreciate if you could post them up. Thanks.
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http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,42.msg138/topicseen.html#new (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,42.msg138/topicseen.html#new)
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Is there a driver mismatch I see the variations between the right and left driver is pretty large.
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Not sure in this case. These seemed very difficult to measure, so not sure if it's imbalance or something in the measurement.
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Mismatch in the machining/aging of the wood cups more likely. No coincidence removing them makes the drivers match better. Not uncommon when dealing w/ enclosed wood. I think half of the wooded Denons Tyll measured have clear imbalances of some sort.
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Is it that difficult to make identical enclosures? If you are handy and have the right tools it is easy...
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With natural wood that has different grains from different trees that expands and ages differently? Wood working tools are also hardly the same precision as metal tools. You really think the underpaid sweat shop worker in China grinding out Denon cups really cares about their accuracy or the quality of the interior finishing? Beyer barely gives Tesla drivers a sniff test before boxing up and shipping.
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It is good to know that cheap labour is a commodity around the world, oh joy.
Either way your pricey woodied Denon or Audio Technica might be a woodied piece of crap but you still have to pay full retail price? Marketing and value propositions in woody effect...
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Inside pic of the 7100:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/DenonAHD7100.pdf (http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/DenonAHD7100.pdf)
(http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shop/images/products/AHD7100EM/AHD7100EMEXTRA1.jpg)
At least it has 1000x more damping than a T1.
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Pads too. Squishy pads can introduce inconsistencies.
Sennheiser knows how to make the right kind of pads, wear issues not withstanding. Obviously the Sennheiser headphone measurement devices under the faraday cage sitting on tectonic plate movement isolation platforms allows only Sennheiser to make drivers with the most consistent matching.
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Agreed. I used to have an HD265. I did not like its sound but the padding and dampening were extraordinary. The comfort was unreal...
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Ah yes, squishy face hugger pads.
Audeze LCD-4:
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080210191235/aliens/images/9/94/Alien_facehugger.jpg)
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With natural wood that has different grains from different trees that expands and ages differently? Wood working tools are also hardly the same precision as metal tools. You really think the underpaid sweat shop worker in China grinding out Denon cups really cares about their accuracy or the quality of the interior finishing? Beyer barely gives Tesla drivers a sniff test before boxing up and shipping.
The Audio-Technica Co. (or at least its headphones division) is a patriotic enterprise, it does not rob its employees of jobs and then gives them to the Chinese communists . All of the headphones 'woodwork' is done in Japan. If all the U.S. companies were the same.
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Just want to say that my A900 sounds more or less like this. Except it seems to be a lot more shelved up top which makes the otherwise hashy treble a lot more bearable.
I think the semi-open baffle has a lot to do with the closed back AT sound. I've never thought such a warmish headphone could sound so thin and brittle, if that makes any sense. It's like a two-faced midrange at times.
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Audio Technica ATH-W3000ANV Frequency Response
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32.0;attach=36;image)
The Audio Technica woodies are very hard to measure because of their design. The driver baffle is semi-open to allow a delayed back wave to augment the forward wave. This probably accounts for their romantic or weird sound depending upon how you hear it. As always, no smoothing is applied. What I will do is investigate further by taking an open or small baffle measurement of just the driver itself.
UPDATE - FR measurement of the [colour=#ff0000]driver [/colour]without the cup:
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32.0;attach=34;image)
I guess the driver is just screwy. CSDs will tell more, but none of those until tonight at earliest.
What kind of measurement this is ? 'Head Related Transfer Function' one or 'Diffuse Field Response' one ? I ask because this graph is unbelievable fit to what exactly I hear - about 5-6 dB mid-bass lift/boost, about 4-5 dB pothole at around 350 Hz and uneven treble spread [horizontal and not vertical].
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IIRC these were measured in a damped, solid plate apparatus with no pinnae or ear canal adapters (no HRTF applied), which would approximate a free-field measurement if anything.
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What c+nums said. damped solid plate coupler with pinna and hair simulators.
No compensation. No use of HRTF or DF, etc. The measurement is intended to be the perceptual equivalent of a measurement taken by a microphone pointed at speakers in a living room with typical stuff (bookcases, etc.) where the mic is at the listening position.
Not measuring at eardrums, effect of head, pinna, sonic singularities, etc.
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What c+nums said. damped solid plate coupler with pinna and hair simulators.
No compensation. No use of HRTF or DF, etc. The measurement is intended to be the perceptual equivalent of a measurement taken by a microphone pointed at speakers in a living room with typical stuff (bookcases, etc.) where the mic is at the listening position.
Not measuring at eardrums, effect of head, pinna, sonic singularities, etc.
And this method is in fact more revealing of a headphone's character. That is, it tends to correlate better with perceived sound. Start putting mics in an ear canal (resonance tube) with an outer ear (basically a horn) acting as the "front-end" and you start seeing less of the headphone and more of the head and ear's response. Things start looking more homogenous between each headphone. And next thing you know...BAM! you're posting on HF about how everything sounds the same.
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With natural wood that has different grains from different trees that expands and ages differently? Wood working tools are also hardly the same precision as metal tools. You really think the underpaid sweat shop worker in China grinding out Denon cups really cares about their accuracy or the quality of the interior finishing? Beyer barely gives Tesla drivers a sniff test before boxing up and shipping.
The Audio-Technica Co. (or at least its headphones division) is a patriotic enterprise, it does not rob its employees of jobs and then gives them to the Chinese communists . All of the headphones 'woodwork' is done in Japan. If all the U.S. companies were the same.
Is that right? According to this 2012 presentation, apparently they have 3 production facilities in China (slide 6):
http://www2.kent.edu/business/StudentOrgs/bapaa/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&pageid=3022060
You're saying they "patriotically" sold them or something? Maybe barely using them?
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With natural wood that has different grains from different trees that expands and ages differently? Wood working tools are also hardly the same precision as metal tools. You really think the underpaid sweat shop worker in China grinding out Denon cups really cares about their accuracy or the quality of the interior finishing? Beyer barely gives Tesla drivers a sniff test before boxing up and shipping.
The Audio-Technica Co. (or at least its headphones division) is a patriotic enterprise, it does not rob its employees of jobs and then gives them to the Chinese communists . All of the headphones 'woodwork' is done in Japan. If all the U.S. companies were the same.
Is that right? According to this 2012 presentation, apparently they have 3 production facilities in China (slide 6):
http://www2.kent.edu/business/StudentOrgs/bapaa/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&pageid=3022060
You're saying they "patriotically" sold them or something? Maybe barely using them?
Many of the lower priced headphones of Audio Technica are made in China. The company said that W3000ANV were wholly made in Japan. Their top end high value products are made in Japan.
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Their top end high value products are made in Japan.
My lower-price ATH AD900s say "made in Japan." That's nice ...I suppose :).
Of course, there is a heap of stuff made by AT at much-lower price .
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Marv you mentioned on another site that the W3000Anv bass distortion measured low. Do you have a graph for this as well?