CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: money4me247 on August 18, 2015, 04:47:53 AM
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hey guys!
First time creating a new thread, but I didn't see any current MrSpeakers Ether threads. If I am mistaken, please let me know and I will post there instead. Attached images of Ether measurements below (using stock cables as DUM/stock cables generally measure exactly the same).
My super verbose & in-depth head-fi review of the Ether is here: http://www.head-fi.org/products/mrspeakers-ether-planar-magnetic-headphones/reviews/13783
Direct comparisons & measurements against my other gear here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/760249/mrspeakers-ether-impressions-thread/1680#post_11842888
Measurement chain: PC with Windows 10 > ARTA Generates Sine Sweeps > Steinberg UR-22 USB Interface with Yamaha ASIO > Line Out > Oppo HA-2 Amplifier > headphones placed upon my own head (left ear being measured) > Pannasonic WM61-A Microphone > Steinberg UR-22 > PC > ARTA analysis
Important Measurement Note: The dip occurring at approximately the 6 kHz region is an artifact from the interaction from the mic placement with the shape of the ear folds. This artifact appears in all my measured frequency response curves via my current personal measurement set-up.
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Thanks mate. You applied any compensation?
Here is a scaled visualization of your results:
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2713.0;attach=10641;image)
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2713.0;attach=10643;image)
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2713.0;attach=10645;image)
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Thank you! No additional compensation added.
Here are some additional FR curves to see the variability during different measurement trials.
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hey guys!
First time creating a new thread, but I didn't see any current MrSpeakers Ether threads. If I am mistaken, please let me know and I will post there instead. Attached images of Ether measurements below (using stock cables as DUM/stock cables generally measure exactly the same).
My super verbose & in-depth head-fi review of the Ether is here: http://www.head-fi.org/products/mrspeakers-ether-planar-magnetic-headphones/reviews/13783 (http://www.head-fi.org/products/mrspeakers-ether-planar-magnetic-headphones/reviews/13783)
Direct comparisons & measurements against my other gear here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/760249/mrspeakers-ether-impressions-thread/1680#post_11842888 (http://www.head-fi.org/t/760249/mrspeakers-ether-impressions-thread/1680#post_11842888)
Great work!
Did you really feel the Ethers had clarity and resolution similar to other summit-fi headphones? (I consider the HD650/600, HE6, and HE560 to be superior to the Ether in terms of resolution, along with the other flagships HEK, HD800, Abyss, SR009, etc.). Also, I felt the Ether's bass was sort of indistinct, blurry, and one-note'ish. Ether's mids were pretty good and highs were quite excellent, although a teeny bit overemphasized.
Also, what SPL levels per the graph Y-axis? This is important to know for distortion.
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Thanks!!! I agree that the Ether's bass is its weakest point. I did find that I could pick up the low-volume micro-details quite well on the Ether. I would estimate that its clarity and detail resolution is similar to the HE-560 (and better than the LCD-X), so I consider it to be "summit-fi level" though likely a few other specific flagship headphones that will be better. I do think it is likely that other particular high-end headphones will relatively outperform it in certain specific technical attributes. Don't have other high-end headphones on hand for more direct comparisons though. Really I found that its overall sound signature would likely be the selling point for people considering these headphones as I found it to have a pleasant, non-fatiguing, generally well-balanced tuning.
for the y-axis, total 100 dB height on the graph with 10dB increment boxes. I don't have an SPL meter to measure that actual volume level on the headphones. For my measurements, I can never get as good distortion levels relative to your posted measurements. Not sure if it is because of the different equipment I am using. posted some other FR graphs as well so you can see the variation in my distortion measurements between trials.
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Compare to the "lowly" HD600/650 if you get a chance. I'd be interested to get your take on it.
Because the Ether is weak in an area (bass) where orthos typically are strong, my personal preference is easily for the HD650/600. At least with Mjolnir 2 tubes + multi-bit Gungnir stack or something better like my personal rig. I was quite surprised at the Schiit Show that my tweaked HD650 outresolved the Ether, although the Ether had better transient response in the treble.
BTW, I'm not sure if most people here consider the LCD-X a summit-fi headphone. Don't get me wrong, there are a few who really like the LCD-X here, but the general consensus tends to be really different from HF. Here's a good counterpoint document: http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2562.0;attach=10302 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2562.0;attach=10302)
For my measurements, I can never get as good distortion levels relative to your posted measurements. Not sure if it is because of the different equipment I am using. posted some other FR graphs as well so you can see the variation in my distortion measurements between trials.
If you are doing the on your own head measurements, you don't want to run them like I do near 90db. Will blow out your ears even with the panny capsules in front! I run them louder than typical listening levels because I feel this stresses the distortion levels to the point where there is good correlation and differentiation from headphone to headphone. Not loud enough, distortion looks too good for every headphone and there is to little differentiation.
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I actually greatly appreciate the HD600/HD650 and wouldn't call it 'lowly' except from a price-point perspective. Would love to get a chance to do a direct comparison.
It is strange how the bass of the Ether is relatively lacking compared to other orthodynamics. I am actually planning on upgrading my mid-tier component set-up as the mjolnir 2 + gungnir MB slots perfectly into my price range and appears to provide the upgrade that I am looking for in terms of initial impressions. Just not sure whether I should skip the gungnir & just go straight for the yggy lol. wld love advice on this particularly from people who had the chance to try both side-by-side. I am a more value-orientated buyer generally.
I agree the LCD-X sonic performance is a bit lacking compared to some of the other summit-fi headphones. Soundstage noticeably smaller with less precise imaging and quite a bit of coloration and blurring effect. I have it as my 'fun' headphones. Just using it to place the Ether's performance relatively.
edit: thanks for the link. very interesting compilation of perspectives and I wouldn't really disagree with the thoughts stated there though I can see different people being more/less sensitive to the critiques being offered. Also, from personal direct comparisons, I would also say that the LCD-3F has similar technical abilities as the LCD-X so I guess I personally have a more lenient view on what headphones can be classified into summit-fi. I am comfortable placing the LCD-2/X/3, HE-560, PM-1, TH900, and AKG K812 all into the summit-fi category though they all have significant sonic considerations. I do think the HD800 is the gold standard for the sound quality achievable at the ~$1.5 price point. I personally think the PM-1 and LCD-XC are barely squeezing into the summit-fi class and I don't consider them to be true TOTL headphones. The v-shaped coloration of the TH900 also makes me rank it lower personally, but for people looking for a high-end option with that type of sound it does offer some technical improvements (in impact/soundstage most noticeably) compared to other more mid-tier v-shaped headphones.
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It is strange how the bass of the Ether is relatively lacking compared to other orthodynamics.
I thought I remember a image of the driver. It's still small, like the size of x2 T50RP drivers (which are super small and work best sealed because of highish distortion). The Audeze, Abyss, and HiFiMan drivers are huge. Quality bass require huge drivers. I have 15" woofers in my speaker rig. Not because I want massive bass or have audiophile small-[redickted] syndrome, but rather because big woofers (with lowish xmax / excursion) tend to have better quality bass than these tiny 6" or 8" woofers on $65,000 speakers that you see at the audio shows.
So really, when we think about it, not a surprise. And no, knurling doesn't do crap either.
Can someone post a image of the Ether driver? I can't remember where I saw it.
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that is actually not surprising at all, though the correlation with driver size is often inconsistent. I would say in this case the Ether's driver size is very likely the limiting factor in its bass response.
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edit: thanks for the link. very interesting compilation of perspectives and I wouldn't really disagree with the thoughts stated there though I can see different people being more/less sensitive to the critiques being offered... I personally think the PM-1 and LCD-XC are barely squeezing into the summit-fi class
Hahaha. I just wanted you to get a sense of the environment here. Very hard to please folks who will offer sharp critiques. The more expensive a headphone, the more it will be critiqued. FWIW, the PM-1 with the original pads were called "pooo" by quite a few of us, while the the LCD-XC goes more along the lines of "oh gawd, what the heck is this!?"
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Can someone post a image of the Ether driver? I can't remember where I saw it.
here is the image of the driver: http://cdn.head-fi.org/b/bc/900x900px-LL-bce331b1_image.jpeg
Hahaha. I just wanted you to get a sense of the environment here. Very hard to please folks who will offer sharp critiques. The more expensive a headphone, the more it will be critiqued. FWIW, the PM-1 with the original pads were called "pooo" by quite a few of us.
yup, I actually really enjoy reading the harsh critiques. really it is the negatives that really expand your knowledge on sound quality. hahah that is funny on the pm-1. I wldnt disagree especially if you are looking at imaging, sound stage, speed, and overall clarity perspective. there is quite a bit of warmth and 'blurr' to its sound. lol dont even talk to me abt the lcd-xc. definitely not worth its price point (impo).
edit: attached images for easy viewing (credit currawong's head-fi ether review & MrSpeakersPeter's post in the Ether Impression head-fi thread)
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I'd like to add that while we appreciate you taking the effort to perform and post these measurements, it seems as if your measurement rig could use some work, at least on the acoustic side of things. It gets hard to interpret measurements when people post them out of the blue. Some of the senior pirates feel that measurements without context/reference points only add more confusion for those who want to grab information easily. If I was a bit more wet behind the ears I might not understand that the 2-3k region on the Ether is actually recessed because of the ear gain in that region, or that the massive null at 6k is some sort of ear canal resonance but could actually be hiding what else is actually going on in that region. Specifically, I would expect the Ether to actually have a slight peak around there (similar to HD800) as that's a characteristic that a few senior pirates have heard from that driver, in both the Ether and the Ether C
I recommend conferring with Hans (who has a similar rig) and other pirates to are busy measuring headphones before posting further measurements. Your measurement system needs to be adjusted with some sort of compensation or move completely away from the "in-ear" technique in order to get better results.
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I'd like to add that while we appreciate you taking the effort to perform and post these measurements, it seems as if your measurement rig could use some work, at least on the acoustic side of things. It gets hard to interpret measurements when people post them out of the blue. Some of the senior pirates feel that measurements without context/reference points only add more confusion for those who want to grab information easily. If I was a bit more wet behind the ears I might not understand that the 2-3k region on the Ether is actually recessed because of the ear gain in that region, or that the massive null at 6k is some sort of ear canal resonance but could actually be hiding what else is actually going on in that region. Specifically, I would expect the Ether to actually have a slight peak around there (similar to HD800) as that's a characteristic that a few senior pirates have heard from that driver, in both the Ether and the Ether C
I recommend conferring with Hans (who has a similar rig) and other pirates to are busy measuring headphones before posting further measurements. Your measurement system needs to be adjusted with some sort of compensation or move completely away from the "in-ear" technique in order to get better results.
Thanks for the advice. I have actually already spoken to Hans and BMF about setting up my measurement kit. My measurement rig is quite similar to theirs. BMF personally thinks that compensation is unnecessary for the WM61-A. I have played with compensation files for it and tend to agree. Regarding the 2-3 kHz dip, I feel like having the raw information there is better as different people have different sensitivities to that region. For the 6 kHz peak I have tried numerous ways to remove it but beyond purchasing a dummy head or investing in a much more expensive measurement set-up, that is just simply the way my rig measures. This phenomenon is typical to varying degrees for people using this panasonic microphone measuring set-up. In my full review, I do touch on those two specific aspects to try to provide additional clarity for those who may not know how to interpret measurements.
The key point I think that measurements from different set-ups will all be different and cannot be inherently compared. I do appreciate your perspective though! It is very important to include that disclaimers on measurements (which I typically always have, but did not include on this website as I figured most posters here are experienced in that aspect).
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No biggie. The method with pinna may have advantages for picking up 10kHz upward. We'll work on standards or procedures to provide reference points in the future iteration of this site. We plan on opening the site up to a wider audience, so disclaimers and better explanations to noobs is something we are thinking a lot more about there days. The 7 different kinds of measurements by 7 different people doing it 7 different ways... the measurements need to be qualified a bit better to avoid confusion. We'll tackle it, eventually.
For now, some mental calibration with same headphones:
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/5/55/900x900px-LL-55ca1b98_Screenshot2015-08-0119.29.19HE-1000FR.png)
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2440.0;attach=9699;image)
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/a/a5/900x900px-LL-a56b1471_Screenshot2015-08-0119.27.36HE-560FR.png)
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1654.0;attach=6861;image)
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BMF personally thinks that compensation is unnecessary for the WM61-A
Well, it might not be if you let the capsule mic stand in free space, but it certainly is if you're going to place it in your ear canal. I tried to get that method right but gave up along the way. Personally, I wouldn't take any measurements as such very seriously; they always look wacky and you can't tell what's what. Unless you apply inverse transfer curve of your HRTF (which is basically what Tyll does). Maybe you should try recording a flat loudspeaker reference with the capsule mic in your ear and using that to compensate.
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I wonder if the drivers are made by Fostex or OEM of Fostex. They have similar design.
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Well, it might not be if you let the capsule mic stand in free space, but it certainly is if you're going to place it in your ear canal. I tried to get that method right but gave up along the way. Personally, I wouldn't take any measurements as such very seriously; they always look wacky and you can't tell what's what. Unless you apply inverse transfer curve of your HRTF (which is basically what Tyll does). Maybe you should try recording a flat loudspeaker reference with the capsule mic in your ear and using that to compensate.
Thanks for the advice. I will look into exploring those options for future changstar posts.
for my personal usage, I do find my measurement rig sufficient and pretty well correlated to how I hear things. I don't recommend using my measurements as an universal 'reference,' and I consider it to be more helpful in relative comparison against other headphones I've measured in a similar fashion. I also do think that listening impressions are generally more accurate for the different nuances and I personally just use measurements for relative comparative data point.
Appreciate your thoughts & recommendations! :)
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Only advice I have to offer for in-ear solutions is getting the right size tri-flange tip to hold the mic in your ear canal, and you want the mic to be as flush with the opening of your ear canal as possible. You really want it to seal nicely and fit securely.
It'll never be perfect (nor will any measurement method), and results are, of course, going to be very dependent on your actual head and ears. As such, they can't always be applied broadly to everyone else, but they can give some context around how your ears and head might affect how something sounds. It won't account for anything beyond the ear canal, hearing loss, or mental processing.
Anyone is free to disagree with me, but I have yet to find a measurement method that better captures how I hear headphones than how I do it myself. I always do plenty of listening before measuring, to be clear, and don't need measurements to tell me whether I think something sounds good or bad. However, I have yet to see any set of measurements aside from my own that captures the HE-560 as being as horribly painful as I hear it or the HD600 being slightly "hot" in the 2-5KHz range. But, again, my measurements are tailored to my head and ears, so YMMV. Every other set of measurements I look at (and I do look at as many measurements as possible), compensated or not, require some mental gymnastics on my part to understand how they might translate to how I hear the headphone. Are there still going to be quirks and measurements artifacts in my setup? Oh yeah, absolutely. But I've seen that in other setups too. That's why you don't rely on them TOO much.
Should also mention that I'm guessing the WM61a has some product variance, which is hard to compensate for unless you have the mic professionally tested. The idea of seeing how it measures a known flat loudspeaker is a good start for guys like us. I have some bookshelf speakers. Dayton BR-1 and those budget Pioneer pairs from a few years back, with known measurements from other sources. I should see how they measure with my in-ear mic. I'd also make sure you run your measurement equipment minus mic in loopback mode to figure out any further compensation you'll need to apply for the hardware itself. My phantom PSU + ADC have a bit of inherent bass roll-off that I compensate for.
As I've said before, one experiment I want to try is my in-ear mic on different people. Rules out any mic variability. That way I can get a feel for how other heads and ears affect how headphones measure on this setup. Should be interesting, if not enlightening.
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However, I have yet to see any set of measurements aside from my own that captures the HE-560 as being as horribly painful as I hear it or the HD600 being slightly "hot" in the 2-5KHz range.
You sure about that? No others?
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2713.0;attach=10655;image)
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Difference is that they don't stick out as much compared to how I perceive them. I'm decent at reading your measurements, but had I not been, I would have assumed the HE-560 bump would have been in-line with the rest of the response and not particularly hard for my ears. Maybe weird and out of place, but not painful. Sort of like the PM-2 treble bump, which is weird but not too strong relative to the bass and mids. Takes some mental compensation on my part, where as the measurements I got for the HE-560 look as painful as they sounded to me without me having to think about compensation. That's what I meant by that. :) But, again, feel free to disagree...I use my measurements primarily as a way to build context around my subjective impressions, not as some absolute truth.
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The measurements that are most indicative of perceived tonal balance are still Marv's v1 technique. This isn't up for discussion in my book :)p3
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Difference is that they don't stick out as much compared to how I perceive them.
LOL, you and your Megadeth recordings...
Anyways, this particular HE-560 unit may be more representative of what you heard (note the double penetrator):
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2713.0;attach=10657;image)
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Agreed. Marv's V1 measurements were quite good IMO. Big inspiration for me, actually.
Yeah, that HE560 looks more in line with what I heard. But, seriously, I have never heard a more painful sounding headphone than 2 out of the 3 560s I heard. I know there are worse out there. And I'm too scared to try them. (Jexby's HE560 wasn't quite as bad, but still not my thing.)
Guilty that I listen to less than ideal recordings, like metal. But even my non-metal stuff (folk, orchestra, etc.) still doesn't generally change how I feel about headphones TOO much. Does help a bit though on some troublesome headphones. Ah, well, I just like what I like...
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It's the combination of specific circumstances.
Megadeth snare drum and percussion + 4.5kHz peak + 9 (4.5x2) kHz = really really nasty. Yeah, I was listening to Megadeth in the car this morning.
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I've never actually listened to Megadeth before, but my guess is most rock and metal falls under that umbrella. ;)
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Shame on you! How can you say you have not really heard one of the finest thrash metal bands from El Lay and claim you listen to rock and metal?
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I know, I know... :'( :spank: This is not the first time someone has made similar comments about what bands I'm familiar with.
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Whut?! I want my vote back....
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Forgive me! I can always get myself back up to speed! lol
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I've never actually listened to Megadeth before, but my guess is most rock and metal falls under that umbrella. ;)
You need to see "The Last Action Hero" and rock to the "Angry Again" tune.
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I'm actually not a big fan of Anthrax, Megadeth, etc. Still stuck with BOC, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, and later some Judas Priest. Turbo Lover makes much more sense now then when I was in high school.
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I like Black Sabbath and Judas Priest. "Angry Again" reminds me of the times my bro and I would laugh our butts off with "The Last Action Hero". Good times.
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We've been hoodwinked!
Whut?! I want my vote back....
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Only advice I have to offer for in-ear solutions is getting the right size tri-flange tip to hold the mic in your ear canal, and you want the mic to be as flush with the opening of your ear canal as possible. You really want it to seal nicely and fit securely.
It'll never be perfect (nor will any measurement method), and results are, of course, going to be very dependent on your actual head and ears. As such, they can't always be applied broadly to everyone else, but they can give some context around how your ears and head might affect how something sounds. It won't account for anything beyond the ear canal, hearing loss, or mental processing.
Anyone is free to disagree with me, but I have yet to find a measurement method that better captures how I hear headphones than how I do it myself. I always do plenty of listening before measuring, to be clear, and don't need measurements to tell me whether I think something sounds good or bad. However, I have yet to see any set of measurements aside from my own that captures the HE-560 as being as horribly painful as I hear it or the HD600 being slightly "hot" in the 2-5KHz range. But, again, my measurements are tailored to my head and ears, so YMMV. Every other set of measurements I look at (and I do look at as many measurements as possible), compensated or not, require some mental gymnastics on my part to understand how they might translate to how I hear the headphone. Are there still going to be quirks and measurements artifacts in my setup? Oh yeah, absolutely. But I've seen that in other setups too. That's why you don't rely on them TOO much.
Should also mention that I'm guessing the WM61a has some product variance, which is hard to compensate for unless you have the mic professionally tested. The idea of seeing how it measures a known flat loudspeaker is a good start for guys like us. I have some bookshelf speakers. Dayton BR-1 and those budget Pioneer pairs from a few years back, with known measurements from other sources. I should see how they measure with my in-ear mic. I'd also make sure you run your measurement equipment minus mic in loopback mode to figure out any further compensation you'll need to apply for the hardware itself. My phantom PSU + ADC have a bit of inherent bass roll-off that I compensate for.
As I've said before, one experiment I want to try is my in-ear mic on different people. Rules out any mic variability. That way I can get a feel for how other heads and ears affect how headphones measure on this setup. Should be interesting, if not enlightening.
Good thoughts. I think actually my HE-560 measurements would correlate strongly with your personal impressions (I detect that peakiness there too though I personally don't find that tuning choice fatiguing). The HE-560 definitely has a interesting treble presentation & I can see people having issues with it.
edit: unattached as I just saw that they were already posted by marvey. thanks! in his post first set of images is the my he-1k measurements vs his ones & second image set is my he-560 (with that prominent 2-5kHz peak Hans is talking about).
edit2: appreciate the advice from OJneg & Hans about using reference speakers to help my measurements!! Was looking at various options just now. If anyone has any good inexpensive recommendations for me, please PM me!! Thank you :)
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I'm actually not a big fan of Anthrax, Megadeth, etc. Still stuck with BOC, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, and later some Judas Priest. Turbo Lover makes much more sense now then when I was in high school.
Huge fan of DP (specifically Mark II). I could not even listen to Rainbow. Ac far as the other names here, :vomit:
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Huge fan of DP
I bet!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY-VdxwxSas
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Anax, I take it you don't like the group?
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I think anax is referring to the urbandictionary meaning of DP :P
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Holy shit, did not realize what DP could mean :)) my bad for not keeping up and thanks uncola. Never will I use initials evar again
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There's also dvda... but I can't seem to find the movie clip of it :)p8
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Heard one today, was planning on buying it.
Really liked ALMOST everything about it ... except the bass and with some music the somewhat overly 'hot-ish' edge it had with less than stellar recordings.
Could live with that and rationalise it away.
Not the bass quality though.
Caveat: didn't use pirate appoved amping/DAC-ing and it was spanking new and had only played less than an hour before I played with it.
Would have bought it for $ 375 in a heartbeat and would try to mod that bass and edge.
Not sure I could improve the bass enough and paying $1800.- (what it costs in Europe) and end up destroying it by accident during the process was a bit too high of a risk.
Aside from the bass ... top notch and up there with flagships.
Nice attempt from Dan .... the bass needs work though and I would buy it for $ 2000 IF he got that right as well.
(just my opinion)
Oh... and that red shrink tubing on the cable is crazy.
Why not have one of the connectors anodized red, that can't be very expensive for large batches..
Really ... so cheap looking !
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What exactly did you not like about the bass?
Having seen that the Ether still uses the damping foam used in previous MrSpeakers products, I'm curious. I know I had better results with the AD's treble glare and midrange integration once I swapped that out for something else and added a different type of front damping foam in front of the driver. Guess it's time for Ether mods! ;)
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An excerpt from my 'review':
How to describe it. It appears (but does not measure that way in FR I assume) as though there is a 'dip' and not even a small one in the 'warmth' part.
That is the transition between bass and voice. The upper bass, lower mids.
This makes the bass a bit 'dis-attached' from the rest of the music.
Normally I don't mind this and even find it pleasing sometimes and gives that ethereal sound as well.
BUT it isn't just the disconnected bass, which the HD650 nor T50RP don't have.
These 2 headphones have a perfect transition and everything 'jives' at that point.
Not so with the ETHER
That bass is, aside from being dis-attached also very one-note.
Different tough than the DT770 which appears to me as being one-note as well but at a lower 'note' and not as bad.
Where you can easily follow a nice bass line with the HD650/T50RP and even the uptown it is very 'difficult' to follow it with the ETHER.
I know it probably measures very flat from very deep to well over 1kHz but it certainly doesn't sound that way. Maybe waterfall plots could show this (didn't measure it) dunno …
The bass seems to 'resonate' at a for me not pleasant 'tone' and bass notes around it can be 'heard' but mainly because you hear the overtones of the 'pluck' or 'hit' that tell you … this must have been another note. The 'basis' note that follows is low but always seems to sound 'the same'.
Bass is ALSO important to me... and even though I really liked everything else about it (with Jazz/classical/audiophile) it took away the almost undeniable urge to buy it.
Just my opinion and I may hear this headphone different from other people.
Aside from the bass performance I felt all other aspects were top notch.
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Bass is bit too bloomy and one note without precision or ultimate textural resolution. Lingers too long. Actually behaves more like a conventional dynamic down low but the HD800 does better. Ether open only gives you MOAR bass, not better bass.
IMHO, IME, YMMV, FTFU, FTW
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Is it sticky?
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What Solderdude said:
(1) "hot edge" with marginal records which tend toward bright (minor)
(2) cloudy wooly bass. possibly high distortion going up many harmonic orders 2,3,4 (major - at least for an ortho)
(3) not coherent througout entire band: disjointed between hi-fi'ish mids/treble and low-fi bass (moderate)
other thoughts:
+ nice airy and open
+ possibly the best ergo among all headphones
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@solderdude, u mentioned those thoughts were part of your review. i wld love to read the full review. link please when u have time? thxs!
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Not really a review, then I would also show measurements and possible modifictaions.
I see it more as comparative notes.
I will do a D.Thorn and paste my notes here as well.
Where to begin and keep it short..
I compared the ETHER to HD650 (on Kameleon) and T50RP (modified + Kameleon) + modified Philips cityscape uptown
Started out with audiophile recordings (WAV or FLAC) of various kinds and then turned to 'familiar' ground for me.
First impressions:
Build quality is very nice/high.
Pads are soft and very pleasant and give a very good seal.
Clamping force is just right.
The weight is excellent (very lightweight)
VERY easy to drive, even directly from the FiiO X3 which could play it very loud without distortion.
Looks and colours as well as finish... very nice, sorry beautiful is a better description.
Tonality: appears to be very flat (at first glance)
One would expect such an 'open' headphone to leak a lot of sound ... surprisingly it doesn't that much at all and isolates even somewhat.
Cable is smooth and pleasant to the touch, not stiff (like Grado) and not nice and soft either, has a decent feel and low in microphonics.
To me this is all worth the asking price so far ….
So far so good, more comfy than either of the other headphones and easier to drive.
Looks like Dan did an excellent (reference) job on these aspects.
Now the sound.
Highly detailed (maybe just a tad overly detailed, a bit like HD800 over detailed)
Small nuances were easy to hear and effortless with no distortion to speak of.
NEVER heard the intro of 'Jazz at the pawnshop' played that well (except for my speakers) :)
Those that know this recording know about the talking people in the background, the ambiance, the glass and how the brushes 'start' the music.
As said... effortless and extremely real... I was really there... no kidding... perfect.
The T50RP was 'nice' and tonally almost similar but doesn't do those soft things that well,
In dynamics they were very close.
The HD650 also renders those tiny details 'just fine' but NOT nearly as effortless as the ETHER.
Realism of the brushes in the ETHER and the 'glass' etc are really that much better.
So ETHER > HD650 > T50RP > uptown
When it comes to Jazz and 'audiophile recordings' my preference was ETHER > HD650 > T50RP > uptown as well when it concerns everything above say 300Hz.
With those kind of recordings the ETHER trumped the other headphones with ease.
No contest really, in two words ….. superior realism.
You may have noticed the mentioning of the 300Hz (an estimate though) and everything above being top notch.
I would easily say better than LCD2 and HE500 .
These were not there for actual comparison, from memory when compared to HD650/T50RP at another time so I may be wrong there but don't think so.
Okay.... mids and treble excellent. Neutral BUT also a bit Ethereal. Lacking some 'body' which HD650 and T50RP do so well.
Kuddos for Dan yet again.... mechanical, looks, electrical all great.
Well one small remark... everything is pretty flawless except one little but obvious detail.
The plug that marks the right channel has a piece of red shrink tubing around it.
Looks sooo cheap and it isn't even cut straight. It appears NOT to have been made by Dan in comparison. I would charge $ 10.- more for the cable and have the outer casing of the connectors anodized red instead.
Saw the DUM cable as well which was thinner and more supple but would NOT pay E 50.- more for it myself.
So all is not perfect.. well who cares about the shrink tubing...
But there is more... remember me mentioning > 300Hz is very/ nice perfect on Jazz etc.
Yup that' s certainly true.
But something like the Dire Straits is also pretty well recorded.
That's where some 'cracks' start to show in the treble area.
With music other than audiophile and Jazz/classical there is an 'edge' to the sound sometimes/often.
Not annoyingly bad but it's there and it sounds like some treble peaking which makes it well.
Not as good sounding as both HD650 and T50RP and for this kind of music I would change my rating: HD650 > T50RP > ETHER > uptown.
Yes, it may well be in the recording and ETHER making it audible and thus is 'better' blah blah.
Well that might have been the case but I know this DS CD pretty well and with speakers the same recording does not sound as sharp-ish / edge emphasized and is closer to the HD650/T50RP.
So … great for Jazz and high quality recordings, but less great for other types of music.
Well now lets finally come down to the bottom of the review and the bass response.
That's where this headphone bums out completely for me.
And I have to say alas because I REALLY liked almost every aspect of it and would have forked out the cash for it even though my 'limit' lies around E 500.- in general.
The bass … yeah that bass.
How to describe it. It appears (but does not measure that way in FR I assume) as though there is a 'dip' and not even a small one in the 'warmth' part.
That is the transition between bass and voice. The upper bass, lower mids.
When you hear someone play around on his bass and hitting all kinds of notes then you notice that the highest ones are 'O.K.', perhaps a bit on the lean side.
The HD650 (even EQ'ed flat) has better bass notes there already.
Then when the notes go down they seem to become softer and the fundamentals appear ro be replaced by a resonance somewhat lower.
Even lower notes then increase in amplitude and appear to be on the correct level but do not 'stop' fast enough when plucked.
Notes below that are very hard to follow and appear to become less and less in amplitude but seem to excite that (then higher) tone again.
This makes the bass a bit 'dis-attached' from the rest of the music.
Normally I don't mind this and even find it pleasing sometimes and gives that ethereal sound as well.
BUT it isn't just the disconnected bass, which the HD650 nor T50RP don't have.
These 2 headphones have a perfect transition and everything 'jives' at that point.
Not so with the ETHER … alas … as mentioned I REALLY wanted this to be my end-game headphone because of all the other (to me) positive traits.
That bass is, aside from being dis-attached also very one-note.
Different tough than the DT770 which appears to me as being one-note as well but at a lower 'note' and not as bad.
Where you can easily follow a nice bass line with the HD650/T50RP and even the uptown it is very 'difficult' to follow it with the ETHER.
I know it probably measures very flat from very deep to well over 1kHz but it certainly doesn't sound that way. Maybe waterfall plots could show this (didn't measure it) dunno …
The bass seems to 'resonate' at a for me not pleasant 'tone' and bass notes around it can be 'heard' but mainly because you hear the overtones of the 'pluck' or 'hit' that tell you … this must have been another note. The 'basis' note that follows is low but always seems to sound 'the same'.
Bass is ALSO important to me... and even though I really liked everything else about it (with Jazz/classical/audiophile) it took away the almost undeniable urge to buy it.
In fact when I would have to choose between using an EQ'ed LCD-2 (which is heavy weight and relatively harder to drive) and the ETHER and would want just 1 headphone I would choose an EQ'ed LCD2 over the ETHER.
When it comes to bass my preference would be: uptown>T50RP>HD650>ETHER.
So did I end up buying it (which was my intention)... No.
I really wanted to and think it is a most neutral and detailed sounding headphone with excellent sound except for that bass.
That really sounds so 'off/odd/wrong' to me that I seriously think Dan should address that.
I think in the line of pads or damping or so.
So great headphone that has a LOT going for it and may possibly have liked and vastly preferred it over other headphones with a lot of music.
BUT the bass quality is a real let down for me. Others may not really be bothered by it and may actually like it.
I want an HD650 till 300Hz and a slightly 'more damped' (perhaps) ETHER for the rest. I think.
The small 'edge' I heard with some (but not all) treble and upper mids may also have started to bug me after it grew on me, had I bought it.
The bass, however, would annoy me too much.
Oh and yes... I tried it on 2 other amps as well... the bass didn't change much it seems like its the headphone.
Another thing though... the headphone was brand new and had only been played for an hour before I arrived.
Had been swapping and listening for an hour in all peace and quiet.
And NO I did not use an Yggdrasil or other 'fine' DAC nor did I use TOTL amps.
Still the details the ETHER showed and the excellent SQ were easily heard on all the amps it was connected to so it does not seem to have been a very limiting factor.
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Fantastic review.
I'm glad you pointed out how the Ether can shine over the other headphones (HD650, T50RP mod) with certain recordings which are more bandwidth limited (in the bass). I know that I said I felt the HD650 > Ether, but I am glad that you clarified the point that it depends upon the recording because the strengths and weaknesses of the headphones are different.
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No one would fault you for not using the Ether on a ToTL amp. They might with the HD650 though. ;)
Nice impressions and pretty accurate to me with context. I mentioned the bass issue to Dan at Canjam versus my HD800 off the Liquid Crimson. He said he thought the Ether bass sound more 'lifelike'. We go to different concert venues it seems. Or he's better at marketing than I am. :D
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I mentioned the bass issue to Dan at Canjam versus my HD800 off the Liquid Crimson. He said he thought the Ether bass sound more 'lifelike'. We go to different concert venues it seems. Or he's better at marketing than I am. :D
Interesting comment. The sales guy (there was only one that didn't hover even near me and let me do my thing and only joined me for a talk after I asked him) was quite experienced and in his 40ies.
I asked him to listen to the 'one note bass' but instantly started about Pat Barber which was playing at that moment and how he didn't like it and ranted about sheffield labs and other recordings that were 'better'.
I mentioned it was about the bass which he said wasn't as good as people said.
Said that I agreed but asked him about the one note thing again and he listened again.
I chose that track because the bass notes are already NOT that well separated BUT you can still make them out on the other headphones.
He didn't hear what I said (had one on order and his father is the official importer in Europe/Netherlands) and perceived it more as a real 'room'.
Some rooms indeed do that... make bass one note-ish...
So to him the ETHER was perfect (and said he ordered one for himself).
Tried to explain what to listen for and used other music to make my point.
Could be he didn't perceive it as me, could be he heard it but liked the headphone too much, could be he wanted a 'sale' ... dunno.... don't care it's my ears and wallet and my gear anyway.
he kept going on about the 'lifelike-ness'/realism of the bass of speakers in a room and how well it sounded to him.
I then tried to 'imagine' this room in the hope I could catch on to what he was on about and do the purchase as I really liked the other aspects (aside from the shrink tubing) but really couldn't ... I wanted to though.
The bass SUCKS .... period.
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Yeah, some people's ideal interpretation of 'real' audiophile bass is resonant accentuated bloomy bass bouncing off their walls just shy of THX certification. When I hear someone who doesn't seem very critical say they like "speaker bass" my face usually does one of these...
(http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/113/1136361/2907918-4887090489-27424.jpg)
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LOLOLOL. Some of us have seen that face. You do smile afterward though - so just people don't feel too bad. Then again, the Joker does that too.
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First post, long time lurker. Mostly post on reddit.com/r/headphones, Hello all!
Anyways, anyone have any thoughts or measurements of the Ether C yet? Didn't see a thread about it.
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First post, long time lurker. Mostly post on reddit.com/r/headphones, Hello all!
Anyways, anyone have any thoughts or measurements of the Ether C yet? Didn't see a thread about it.
You mean independent of Dan's own? Not here yet. This is what we have so far.
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2703.msg77776.html#msg77776
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You mean independent of Dan's own? Not here yet. This is what we have so far.
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2703.msg77776.html#msg77776
Well that deflated my hype rather quickly. Will reserve judgement until more people give their impressions, and I can try them but I was really hoping these would be my end game closed. I'm a bit of a closet bass-head.
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Well that deflated my hype rather quickly. Will reserve judgement until more people give their impressions, and I can try them but I was really hoping these would be my end game closed. I'm a bit of a closet bass-head.
Tried the Fostex 900?
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Tried the Fostex 900?
Yes, I had one for awhile ages ago. I didn't really think it was versatile enough to justify it's price tag, given the recessed mid range. So I bought the TH-600 instead, which seems actually a little bit more neutral too. Anyways, it doesn't offer any isolation so that meant it was actually competing against open head phones rather than the other closed ones.
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True true.
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True true.
+1
Changstar recommended price point for TH600/TH900? :-X
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Changstar recommended price point for TH600/TH900?
TH-600: I think $500 is a fair price.
TH-900: It's hard, because I think it's very good at a certain sound signature. It's a very high quality product, but I'm not sure that it's product that anyone would want for the price they're asking. It's like if Ferrari made a minivan. Sure it's quality, and expensive and a Ferrari, but what's the point? I'd be willing to pay ~$800 for it.
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TH-600: I think $500 is a fair price.
TH-900: It's hard, because I think it's very good at a certain sound signature. It's a very high quality product, but I'm not sure that it's product that anyone would want for the price they're asking. It's like if Ferrari made a minivan. Sure it's quality, and expensive and a Ferrari, but what's the point? I'd be willing to pay ~$800 for it.
Agreed. $800 seems like the perfect price point to me.