CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => DIY => Topic started by: dBel84 on July 03, 2012, 05:49:29 PM
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I have the ODAC and what Purrin says about the power supply is true. I will modify mine to accept a regulated supply in due course.
..dB
Make a thread to share if you don't mind. I might go that route if my external battery pack doesn't suffice. Been thinking of one of these so I can run it w/ my phone via USB on the go.
http://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=5VUSB&eq=&Tp= (http://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=5VUSB&eq=&Tp=)
(http://www.streakwave.com/mmSWAVE1/Images/5VUSB.jpg)
I am on the road but if I didn't start this, I would forget to do it later.
The USB supply is easily interrupted, you could even do it externally with the Gizmo that you linked to. However cutting the pc voltage input and supplying your own would restrict noise contamination.
I will set up a pictoral guide for anyone interested ..dB
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Indeed, with the adapter above and a regulated 5V supply, the ODAC could be pure win.
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Ohhh, this is interesting. I could use this with the focusrite audio interface. :)
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Sweet! ;D
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make sure you don't back feed the USB bus.. you could risk blowing your host controllers if you did that.
And that is clearly not USB -IF certified as its got an inline USB-A socket.
I'd want to see how much noise it injects by looking at an eye diagram.
as for the power supply itself, a salas shunt regualtor should do nicely here.
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Found this as well.
http://www.circuitsathome.com/adum4160-usb-isolator-assembly-guide (http://www.circuitsathome.com/adum4160-usb-isolator-assembly-guide)
(http://www.circuitsathome.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/bscope_iso-288x216.jpg)
(http://www.circuitsathome.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/BS_combined-288x216.jpg)
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That is a much better solution. Perfect in fact.
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I had taken a quick look at t earlier when I got home, thought that it offered the optimal solution - the mod to add a linear reg onto it for an external supply finishes it off ..dB
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Would like to try this. Any recommendations for the PSU?
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Hi all!
I have been busy with the ODAC and the potential is definitely there with proper regulated supply.
This is my first try and it transformed this little DAC into something i never imagined
(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5804/dsc5814z.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/407/dsc5814z.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1151/dsc5810e.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/dsc5810e.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
It gave smoothness and extension (especially in the low end) and massive improvement in dynamics... also widened the stereo image... (and all this with very simple LM317 regulation)
I am going to make Salas shunt this weekend following what my friends have done in avclub.gr
I will keep you posted...
It is very worthwhile in my opinion...
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Lol, very nice!! :money:
Now if you can just fix the clock on it. :)p1
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Thanks for the reply!
I am under the impression that the clock receives data on the chip via I2S, directly from the tenor controler... so there is no clock issue...
am i wrong?
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Well, what's the controller doing? Does I2S negate issues w/ the clock?
Let's just say that I have heard the 12Mhz crystal oscillator might have issues compared to alternatives. See below.
Still, great PS build! I want to do one and also grab a UD100 to compare.
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12MHz/48kHz = 250. It would be better to have a 256x multiple, but at least it's an integer. You can divide by an integer.
12MHz/44.1kHz = 272.11 = FAIL.
http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2260&start=15#p47199 (http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2260&start=15#p47199)
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It gave smoothness and extension (especially in the low end) and massive improvement in dynamics... also widened the stereo image... (and all this with very simple LM317 regulation)
Excellent! That's generally what I've heard with better USB power: smoothness, bass extension, dynamics, more open.
Please keep us posted.
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Hi all!
I have been busy with the ODAC and the potential is definitely there with proper regulated supply.
This is my first try and it transformed this little DAC into something i never imagined
It gave smoothness and extension (especially in the low end) and massive improvement in dynamics... also widened the stereo image... (and all this with very simple LM317 regulation)
I am going to make Salas shunt this weekend following what my friends have done in avclub.gr
I will keep you posted...
It is very worthwhile in my opinion...
KARMA POINTS!!! :money:
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Thank you very much!! i will keep you posted...
Anaxilus i want to personally thank you for your mod of the HD800, it just made the headphones so much better... and it gives so much more enjoyment to us!! thanks again!!
I didn't understand what you said about the frequencies... i am no tek guy... (just i guy who likes music, nice sounding hifi so that i can enjoy the music, and also very curious to know what and why.... and also to play around with stuff...)...but i am sure you are most probably right...
If it is not much trouble i would like it in simpler words, my mother tongue is not English...
Thank you!!
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this I'd love to do... what would a good price estimate be for parts minus case?
nice job!!
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Well it all depends... you can do it very cheap but not as efficient... meaning build a LM317 supply yourself and add a cheap 50VA transformer, in any cheap case, canibalize an existing usb cable... this will be in the region of 40euros
If you want a nice case and Salas supply, high quality transormer, with "audiophile" capacitors, nice cable (Mogami), nice usb neutrik socket, ferrite rings all over, emi/rfi filter, etc it will be in the region of 150euro...
I have not heard the Salas version (if all goes well, i will have mine built in the weekend), but it is said that it makes a very audible improvement over simple supplies...
I have heard this in various Bufallo dacs... the best ones had Salas and massive transformers.
I do not know if galvanic isolation will improve things... this is also to be added to the cost should you wish to implement it as well.
The "cheaper" LM317 method is also universal i must add, because it does not take in account current and consumption so you can use it with any usb device, the Salas is only implemented for the specific circuit and it may not easily be used on another with other current/wattage as efficiently... this is also something to take into consideration...
I am very confident to say though, that in the budget dac arena this is something really good and it would be really worthwhile to give it a test, in this forum.
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yeah, I just talked to a friend who is really into DIY about this - he also thought around 40euros was doable with case! and we decided on the idea to add a protection to it too. either way, LM317 seems like a good way to go on about it.
I will most likely be trying this out now, found a couple of parts. can post later... sleep now.
thanks! :)
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Good morning to all....
Since i have recently heard Chris' external supply for ODac i have to admit that it is indeed a major improvement for the little dac...
What he wrote about the stereo image and the dynamics is absolutely true.
The little box transformed to something beyond value for money.
It sure stands up and faces Dacs of multiple value...
Chris i'm looking forward in hearing the salas soon.... headbang
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ahoy Hi Antony!! good to see you here!! if nothing blows up :)p1, we got a lot of listening to do this weekend!! :money:
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ahoy Hi Antony!! good to see you here!! if nothing blows up :)p1, we got a lot of listening to do this weekend!! :money:
My to-do-list is very busy for this weekend Chris but we will meet for sure in the -very- near future!!!! ahoy
Great work man... headbang
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Well it all depends... you can do it very cheap but not as efficient... meaning build a LM317 supply yourself and add a cheap 50VA transformer, in any cheap case, canibalize an existing usb cable... this will be in the region of 40euros
If you want a nice case and Salas supply, high quality transormer, with "audiophile" capacitors, nice cable (Mogami), nice usb neutrik socket, ferrite rings all over, emi/rfi filter, etc it will be in the region of 150euro...
I have not heard the Salas version (if all goes well, i will have mine built in the weekend), but it is said that it makes a very audible improvement over simple supplies...
I have heard this in various Bufallo dacs... the best ones had Salas and massive transformers.
I do not know if galvanic isolation will improve things... this is also to be added to the cost should you wish to implement it as well.
The "cheaper" LM317 method is also universal i must add, because it does not take in account current and consumption so you can use it with any usb device, the Salas is only implemented for the specific circuit and it may not easily be used on another with other current/wattage as efficiently... this is also something to take into consideration...
I am very confident to say though, that in the budget dac arena this is something really good and it would be really worthwhile to give it a test, in this forum.
Very true...
Also reminds me of this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NowdrL6fvb4
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Got the Salas supply to work today, after some small adventures... such is diy i guess...
Some pictures of the build
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1285/dsc5882e.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/dsc5882e.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5776/dsc5886a.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/dsc5886a.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5061/dsc5888g.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/dsc5888g.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Although i am only at initial listening tests... compared to the simple lm317 regulation...
It seems that there is an increase in definition everywhere, an increase in bass extension and control, increase in stereo imaging width and depth.
Overall it is very worth it...
On the Salas construction i think it is not so easy... i got lots and lots of help from my diyer friends... so in case you are newbies try it if you have some support by someone more experienced.
I havnt completed it 100% final and i will give the values of components (to be used in a similar manner like my build) if someone wishes to go for it...
Now for more listening...
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Very nice work! :money:
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Found this as well.
http://www.circuitsathome.com/adum4160-usb-isolator-assembly-guide (http://www.circuitsathome.com/adum4160-usb-isolator-assembly-guide)
(http://www.circuitsathome.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/bscope_iso-288x216.jpg)
(http://www.circuitsathome.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/BS_combined-288x216.jpg)
thanks for that Anax! i'm going to give this one a shot for my MF V-Link USB-SPDIF converter/BM DAC1. i'll just get the Isolator Only kit and add a regulated PS. the Salas shunt looks pretty interesting and smaller than a o11.
saving for the HD800 is getting harder.
edit: i just realized i have a 9V/5VA Amveco TX lying around waiting for a project :)p1
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Thank you LFF!!
@fishki13 It will be interesting to see how the isolator performs. On the transformer i would like to suggest you go for a larger one.
I have tried with one like you say (on lm317) and the comparison with the 50VA toroidal was definitely audible.
This picture is with the first attempt with small trafo (9V/10VA) and lm317
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8458/dsc5812j.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/204/dsc5812j.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Next i went for large trafo and lm317
(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5804/dsc5814z.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/407/dsc5814z.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
And finally i went for the Salas shunt as shown in the previous post.
There were always differences to the better.
I am sorry i haven't made the component chart yet, and i haven't tested on ociloscope... when i have the time i will post the results.
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the V-Link max current draw from the USB bus is quoted at 160mA in the manual. the Amveco 62021 i have is good for 278mA. it has just enough headroom on paper. maybe differences in TX VA is due to the design of the PS being used?
i have a o11 here powering a B1 buffer. with a zener change, removing a resistor, and switching the TX, i can easily convert it to 5V. for a total cost of $25 to see if it has any improvement, it seems like a no brainer to me. implementing the isolator's on-board switch mode PS is counter productive. adding another o11 and chassis wouldn't cost more than $80.
chris,
how are you wiring the host and peripheral 5V USB pins? maybe we can take this to PM.
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PC side, signal +/- pass thru, Earth negative, red positive is cut...-
PSU-
ODAC side receives signal +/- pass thru, Earth from PC and PSU and positive ONLY from PSU
In other words USB negative/earth is common for all, positive power from PSU only going to ODAC, signal uncut passes thru.
You may want floating earth on psu side not common with Mains In, or you can try common ground... floating is best for isolation.
I am not familiar sorry, with o11 what is it?
The Transformers i like to use is larger than you want because they have electrical inertia and is less prone to mains fluctuation instability...
The ODAC power consumtion is 52mA as measured by a friend of mine, but i use large trafo, it is over engineering, i know... but i have heard the difference... in the three versions i built.
I think information on this matter is important to be public, since i do not know of any other site going into this kind of detail... (except my home forum avclub.gr but in Greek only)
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thanks for sharing Chris.
here's the o11: http://www.amb.org/audio/sigma11/ (http://www.amb.org/audio/sigma11/). and here are the measurements of the MF V-Link: http://www.stereophile.com/content/musical-fidelity-v-link-usb-spdif-converter-0 (http://www.stereophile.com/content/musical-fidelity-v-link-usb-spdif-converter-0)
i'm tied up with other projects but will try to squeeze this in and report back.
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Thank you!! I have an idea of this regulated power supply... i failed to see the o as σ... :)p13
Ok very nice! i wish you good luck with your project!!
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Yesterday i got my new aluminium box and fitted everything in it,
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5222/dsc5893o.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/dsc5893o.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
With a smaller mains filter, removed the ODAC from its (JDSlabs) enclosure, shortened the Salas supply cable (CAT5), secured the canibalized mini usb plug with hot glue, and soldered Sommer shielded cable to RCA out.
Now my rig is aesthetically pleasing too, apart from playing music vey nicely...
(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/9001/dsc5896w.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/dsc5896w.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Now for more listenning and finally ociloscope measurement to see if the Salas is playing optimum.
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Chris i 'm looking forward to first impressions....
Great looking toys by the way!!!!! headbang
PS. How do i add karma points to someone?!?! :)p17
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Nice work chris, a 2nd or 3rd project for someone like me, who has little practical work with DACs/amps.(only worked on LTspice and a few school related circuitry projects)
Planning to do a project like this soon, Audio Poutine is selling the CDAC+ which is also co-designed with Yoyodyne Consulting which integrates the ODAC's components with the Adum4160 galvanic isolator in one package if you don't one the isolator to be separate from the DAC.
A board is $99 so I'm thinking of getting myself one and build myself one of the PS stated down here.
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Thanks, the CDAC looks great and it is much simpler to implement with regulated power supply!
I might try one myself in the future...
Good luck with your build!!
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Yup, Looks very Tempting!
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Here is my take on the subject. The PSU is AMB Sigma11 and the little board in the bottom right corner is an USB isolator (ADUM4160 IC).
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-TVSFaoM2iyg/UsvpXpfdNZI/AAAAAAAAAQc/4m7zpEw1b50/w1280-h960-no/odac-insides.jpg)
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awesome. that's kind of what I wanted to do with mine before I decided to sell it.
it just seemed like a lot of work... but I would love to hear more about the improvements!
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How brilliant! I didn't think about tackling the problem before the USB input. I kept thinking about hacking traces on the ODAC. Very interested to hear about impressions.
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cDAC+ used to sell ODAC pcb's, that have on-board isolators. All in all - I'm pretty much set on building the JLSounds dac.
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Sorry guys, no impressions at this point. Just finished building the DAC and an amp and bought a pair of headphones, having to spend the last six months without music. Will try to find some time to do a comparison vs the stock ODAC in the coming weeks. To tell the truth I wasn't as much trying to improve ODAC as to fill the space to match the amp chassis p;)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Ise_BNzsKrQ/Usv9K7YLstI/AAAAAAAAARI/JlaugOPh40w/w960-h1280-no/wire-odac-stack.jpg)
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excellent!
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How close could this (http://hifimediy.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=87) be to the conditioned ODACs?
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Great work mvwvm !! :)p1
@c61746961 first of all, i am not convinced that the quality of the board/components nor its layout is equivalent to the ODAC, secondary i feel that you will not be able to connect Salas Shunt without re boxing it, because the Salas needs very short runs of the output voltage. You may want to try the σ11 on it (in a separate box)... it will sure be a great improvement on those Chinese supplies that seller sells.
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That's neato, mvwvm! Are those the fischer headphones?
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Yup. It's a limited edition of FA-002W that is sold only in Russia. They claim it's the best phones they've made so far. The amp is The Wire SE-SE.