CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

Lobby => Headphone, IEM, and Other Audio Related Discussion => Topic started by: knerian on February 05, 2015, 01:58:58 AM

Title: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: knerian on February 05, 2015, 01:58:58 AM
Since I have not found a thread devoted to mods for the HE-6 I thought I would start one.

I originally bought the HE-560 and HE-6, then sold them when I figured the HD800 would hold me over until the HE-1000 came out.  Then I heard and purchased Bill-p's excellent modded HE-560, and since then (only a little over a week ago) have listened to the almost exclusively.  Then I got an itch for the HE-6 again and bought a demoed/open box version and did the basic mods right away: regrilled, took out the white cotton from the back, and fuzzorred the inside sides of the magnet array, but used 1mm thick felt as I could not find the 2mm felt.

IN fact I actually sandwiched two sheets of the 1mm together and cut them and put them in, but they were not amenable to being rounded on the edges a la Jerg's suggestion.  So I just ripped them out and used 1 sheet of the 1mm, at this thickness there's not really a need to round the edges.

That's it, I haven't done anything else yet.  I'm running them out of a Rag, it's much better than any of the other head amps I have, but haven't tried them with a speaker amp.  Also I want to change the headband to the HE-560/400i headband and am working on getting one.  Anyone try that yet?

Sound improvement?  I have tin ears, I don't know.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Clemmaster on February 05, 2015, 07:19:12 AM
Don't put a HE-560 headband if you plan on using the Audeze Vegan pads later on: they are incompatible.
The HE-560 sound so great with the Vegan pads that I'm actually considering swapping the headband for the old type  :-DD (which I was never annoyed by).
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: kothganesh on February 05, 2015, 03:02:08 PM
I am content with the no-grill mod for now. I am not good at removing and reattaching the pads hence I've held off on the fuzzors. However, I don't have an issue with the treble. Pairing this with the Stratos Extreme power amp has provided more of a neutral sound. I had previously used my JVC receiver and it was definitely more on the dark side.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: No_One411 on February 05, 2015, 05:22:10 PM
Don't put a HE-560 headband if you plan on using the Audeze Vegan pads later on: they are incompatible.
The HE-560 sound so great with the Vegan pads that I'm actually considering swapping the headband for the old type  :-DD (which I was never annoyed by).

What do you mean the Audeze Vegan pads aren't compatible with the HE-560 headband?

I was under the impression that the two headband types themselves are incompatible. I sent an email some time ago during pre-production phase and the rep said that you couldn't use the HE-560 style headband with the older models.

Which is a shame, since the comfort is infinitely better with the newer style.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Clemmaster on February 05, 2015, 06:16:19 PM
What do you mean the Audeze Vegan pads aren't compatible with the HE-560 headband?

I was under the impression that the two headband types themselves are incompatible. I sent an email some time ago during pre-production phase and the rep said that you couldn't use the HE-560 style headband with the older models.

Which is a shame, since the comfort is infinitely better with the newer style.
I'm not talking about mounting here. Just the way the headband, and especially the yokes, work with the cups:
- On the older headband, the yokes are rotating on the outside of the cups; No matter how far you stretched the headband (pull the earcups apart), the yokes would never cross the inner edge of the cup, where the pads are.
- The new headband works by pulling the cups from the inside. Unless you have a narrow head (like me), when you stretch the headband to normal head size, the yokes cross the inner edge of the cup and, thus, hit against the Vegan pads (which are bigger than the cups). This put pressure on the temples :/

I hope I can find a way to fit the old headband to the HE-560...
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: knerian on February 05, 2015, 07:06:59 PM
I'm not talking about mounting here. Just the way the headband, and especially the yokes, work with the cups:
- On the older headband, the yokes are rotating on the outside of the cups; No matter how far you stretched the headband (pull the earcups apart), the yokes would never cross the inner edge of the cup, where the pads are.
- The new headband works by pulling the cups from the inside. Unless you have a narrow head (like me), when you stretch the headband to normal head size, the yokes cross the inner edge of the cup and, thus, hit against the Vegan pads (which are bigger than the cups). This put pressure on the temples :/

I hope I can find a way to fit the old headband to the HE-560...

True, it's because the ear pads are too big.

I have not been able to remove the HE-6 cups from their headband as I used a screw driver too big and it stripped the cross pattern!  So its out for me on the HE-6. 

Have you taken off the headband assembly for the HE-6/500, if so what does the hole in the cups look like?  All I see is a plastic washer between the cups and the steel gimbal.  It's probably easier to put the 560 cups on that steel gimbal than the other way around.  the HE-6 cups would need to have the holes (expanded by drilling?) fitted with the same nylon bushing as the 560 cups.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Clemmaster on February 05, 2015, 07:42:12 PM
True, it's because the ear pads are too big.

I have not been able to remove the HE-6 cups from their headband as I used a screw driver too big and it stripped the cross pattern!  So its out for me on the HE-6. 

Have you taken off the headband assembly for the HE-6/500, if so what does the hole in the cups look like?  All I see is a plastic washer between the cups and the steel gimbal.  It's probably easier to put the 560 cups on that steel gimbal than the other way around.  the HE-6 cups would need to have the holes (expanded by drilling?) fitted with the same nylon bushing as the 560 cups.

I actually had the same problem with my HE-4: the screw got destroyed when attempting to unscrew them...
We shall see if I'm more successful.

Honestly, after de-stressing the headband, the HE-560 + Vegan pads work for me. I can still feel a bit of pressure on the temple but it is not unbearable.
The sound is just gorgeous, though... I was never a big fan of the Vegan on HE-6, but with the 560s it is definitely great.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: knerian on February 08, 2015, 08:50:20 PM
Armaegis, good luck with the headband, I think you can try this one on taobao:

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.118.98Cjmx&id=36402141950&ns=1&abbucket=17#detail (http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.118.98Cjmx&id=36402141950&ns=1&abbucket=17#detail)

Taobao is a Chinese domestic site like ebay/amazon marketplace (actually it's much better in terms of variety and cheapness), but as far as I know you need to have a Chinese bankcard or alipay account (which requires a Chinese bankcard) to use, it's basically a nono for non-Chinese residents.  Apparently there are resellers (I've never used one) who offer the service of buying listings and sending them overseas for a fee.

credit goes to azncookiecutter  headbang for this:

For buying stuff from Taobao using a reseller: http://www.vendio.com/stores/E-sports-Gaming-equipments/ (http://www.vendio.com/stores/E-sports-Gaming-equipments/)

I don't know cost of cheap shipping from China to Canada. I have done lots of shipments but use regular couriers like DHL/UPS, etc, those are expensive, minimum $30 for a document $40 for lightest package, most of these Chinese vendors use postal and for whatever reason have really cheap rates, you would always want to go with that or else shipping will kill you.  It's something I'll have to research next year.

Armaegis, some things to consider:

1)  You should still contact hifiman and wait for their response, I am also in contact with their customer service and it is...  a bit slow.  But it's $50 for the HE-560 band, I would guess it's similar for your band.  You mentioned your screw heads are stripped, in that case you would need to use a hifiman band as they would just connect your existing gimbal part to a new L-shaped length adjuster (if you look the gimbal is connected with a flathead screw, so you don't need to disconnect your cup from your gimbal).

2)  If you get the Chinese aftermarket headband, just looking at the pictures there is no guarantee that the hole on the gimbal is compatible with the screws on your HE-6 cups.  If you look at the posts they use in the pics, there are not threaded, it looks like the HE-560/400i style where they slide into a hole.  IN which case it is wholely incompatible with the HE-6 unless you are willing to majorly mod your cups and drill holes where the sunken threaded hole is now.

The one good thing about the Chinese aftermarket headband is that the L-shaped metal length adjuster looks about 10-20% thicker than the Hifiman metal, it should not snap.  In fact yours should not have snapped at all, yours must have been defective since the beginning, I'm looking at mine and no amount of regular stress would have caused any sort of fracture in that bend.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Tachikoma on February 08, 2015, 09:56:56 PM
Actually, I'm pretty certain that Taobao takes payments from credit cards outside of China too, but it goes through an intermediary that appears to be their version of Paypal. I bought something off Taobao directly that way a few months ago.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on February 08, 2015, 09:59:36 PM
Thanks. I'll have to look into that reseller...

You mentioned your screw heads are stripped, in that case you would need to use a hifiman band as they would just connect your existing gimbal part to a new L-shaped length adjuster (if you look the gimbal is connected with a flathead screw, so you don't need to disconnect your cup from your gimbal).


Frak, it's like they've put loktite on everything. That screw isn't budging even with two vice grips.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on February 08, 2015, 10:04:48 PM
I wonder if just the L-bracket can be replaced? Does that plastic cap come off easily? (I don't see anything obvious, but I don't want to just yank and break it either... my confidence in the build quality is rather low right now)
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: knerian on February 08, 2015, 11:16:06 PM
Thanks. I'll have to look into that reseller...

Frak, it's like they've put loktite on everything. That screw isn't budging even with two vice grips.

They put loktite on it, when I unscrewed mine there was loktite (or something like that) on the screw.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on February 09, 2015, 12:56:54 AM
I wonder if I really crank it with the vice grips if it'll unscrew or will I simply break it...

idea: use pliers and bend the existing L-bar and drill a new hole into it; what have I got to lose right?
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: JoelT on February 09, 2015, 03:07:14 AM
I've done the following mods with mine, and power the headphone with the Ragnarok on high gain:

- Regrill the back side of the driver with an open mesh and remove all back damping material.

- Partial "Fuzzor" application; the 3 center magnet strips are fuzzored, but nothing else. The fuzzor seems to act as front side damping in addition to being a waveguide of sorts, so as you add more material, you begin to compress the soundstage that was opened up by removing the back side damping. Fully fuzzor'd, I felt the sound was actually quite close to the stock damping (not a good thing IMO). The problem is that without something to provide focus (such as Fuzzor), the imaging lacks specificity and isn't cohesive. My solution was to find how much of the fuzzor I could add, before the stage began to be shrink. I then combine the partial fuzzor with a pad insert of non-slip rug liner. The liner material improves the imaging considerably, and just as importantly, removes almost all of the remaining etch and glare. Here's a pic of the liner material insert:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/truckyj/_1172928_zpsf2fb27ca.jpg~original) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/truckyj/media/_1172928_zpsf2fb27ca.jpg.html)

- Swap the pads for Audeze Vegan pads, and then mod the pads. I agree with Clem that the Audeze pads have issues. Unfortunately I felt that the Focus-A's were a bit too bright and weren't as comfortable to boot. I noted a couple of problems with the Audeze pads that I addressed: A dip in the lower treble (sound familiar?), a loss of bass impact, a pervasive sense of softness. I made an overly verbose post on head-fi about what I've done with the pads, including some crackpot theory's about what I did: http://www.head-fi.org/t/493214/hifiman-he-6-planar-magnetic-headphone/15630#post_11237667 (http://www.head-fi.org/t/493214/hifiman-he-6-planar-magnetic-headphone/15630#post_11237667)

- Finally, seal the pads to the cup with the Audeze supplied adhesive once the fuzzor configuration was finalized. This provided better sub-bass response vs. using the HFM rings.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: ohhgourami on February 09, 2015, 08:51:05 AM
Damn it Joel! You got me interested. If it's something that will improve imaging and increase the lower treble, I'll do it.

Looks like I need to buy myself some rug liner now.

How do those 2 sheets of plastic around the inner pad affect comfort?
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: knerian on February 09, 2015, 10:10:51 AM
Joel thanks for the link to your other thread, I saw the pics of your re-grill, it looks the same as mine.  Just curious - was your source an Ikea wastebasket?
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on February 09, 2015, 03:53:34 PM
I personally found the vegan pads a bit too darkish, probably related to that upper dip. I have J$ Beyer pads on mine, with a "sort of but not really fuzzor"1 in front and additional felt and angel hair2.

(1) basically thin strips of acoustic foam, no tapering, I think these are more just acting as spacers for the damping in front

(2) I glued some nylon stocking onto the mounting ring, added a small puff of angel hair fibres inside the ring, then a circle of soft thin felt on top (teensy bit smaller than the mounting ring, so it lifts the pads up for more breathing room). This is all held down when the pad is mounted.

Granted, my config is probably darker than most (personal preference), but still feels quick and clean to me. The J$ pads are brighter than vegans, maybe only a tiny notch below stock pleathers, but take out some of that edge (they do already have perforations on the bottom to allow more leakage into the foam). Then I varied the angel hair until it was where I wanted it.

I should post up pics sometime.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on February 09, 2015, 07:53:18 PM
I wonder if I really crank it with the vice grips if it'll unscrew or will I simply break it...

idea: use pliers and bend the existing L-bar and drill a new hole into it; what have I got to lose right?

Well... I went and did it: http://www.head-fi.org/t/493214/hifiman-he-6-planar-magnetic-headphone/15915#post_11305678

Not perfect, but it works. Since my amps seem to be on the fritz, that'll probably be the next money sink so might as well save a few bucks on not buying a headband.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: JoelT on February 09, 2015, 10:15:07 PM
Damn it Joel! You got me interested. If it's something that will improve imaging and increase the lower treble, I'll do it.

Looks like I need to buy myself some rug liner now.

How do those 2 sheets of plastic around the inner pad affect comfort?

It might be worth a try, considering it's cheap and easy. Especially if you perceive some weaknesses in the areas mentioned. I use my modded HD800 as a reference for the treble and imaging, which offered some good perspective. The tape application on the inside of the pad doesn't impact comfort assuming that you take note of where your ears touch the pad, and make sure not to apply any of the tape to those areas. I would recommend starting with just the front application (that's all I currently am using), and then adding more to the back side of the pad if you want to continue boosting the lower treble. It make take a couple of attempts to get it right, and to get a nice clean application. Kinda stupid looking, but it seems to work. :-\

As for the liner material, I just ordered another material that I noticed Jerg using on his HE560 mod and Bill using on his LCD-2 mod. I'll report back how it compares once I receive the shipment. Based on the shape, it may prove more effective: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001TGOAHI/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Joel thanks for the link to your other thread, I saw the pics of your re-grill, it looks the same as mine.  Just curious - was your source an Ikea wastebasket?

I think mine was a file holder from Officemax, haha. Not the sexiest looking HE-6 grill, but I wasn't able to find anything better when I looked. Any suggestions for a better material would be cool.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: knerian on February 09, 2015, 11:28:59 PM
Well... I went and did it: http://www.head-fi.org/t/493214/hifiman-he-6-planar-magnetic-headphone/15915#post_11305678

Not perfect, but it works. Since my amps seem to be on the fritz, that'll probably be the next money sink so might as well save a few bucks on not buying a headband.
Oh man congrats, at least you don't have to deal with the hassle of getting a new headband.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on February 19, 2015, 06:29:35 PM
Quote from: Knerian
arm:  what is your felt like, it is very porous?  how can you have it in front without completely blocking the driver?

It's a very soft and thin felt. Fairly breathable. I have no idea on the type/brand/whatever; it was something I scavenged from my mother's sewing cabinet.

I have a full sheet in front of the HE-6 driver, but a full sheet is too much on the 560.

Quote from: Knerian
Armaegis:  You have both 560 and HE-6, right?  I was thinking of switching the drivers into the other cup so you would have an HE-6 with the 560 headband and cups ,that would be easier than drilling holes in the HE-6 cups.  It just takes soldering.  But alas it's still a pain in the ass and I am undecided on the Vegan pads or not, if I use those then the 560 headband is probably out.

I don't have the 560, but had one on loan for a couple weeks and played very briefly with modding (it wasn't mine, so efforts were minimal).

My full pad config on my HE-6 (Beyer J$ leathers, full felt cover, twaron angel hair) brings the HE-6 down to a level I like and has a bit of a shelving effect on the treble range (admittedly I prefer a darker sound and get fatigue very easily), but this config is way too much on the 560 and sounds like mud.

I find the vegan pads ok but dark in a way that doesn't quite work for me. The tonality seems off, like it suddenly took a hit somewhere in that 4-8kHz range (I'm guessing? maybe an octave lower than that). I think it's just the Vegan absorbing a bit too much energy. The more reflective leather J$ pads but with diffusing from the stuff in front feels better to my ears.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: dpump on February 20, 2015, 12:45:43 AM
I would like to change the connectors on my HE-6 to mono 1/8" jacks so I can use cables that have 1/8" mono male plugs. Then I can use the same cable for the Oppo PM2 and the upcoming Audioquest NightHawk. I can also change the Norse Audio cable I have on the HE-6 now from HiFiMan connectors to 1/8" male plugs and use it on the PM2 and NightHawk as well as the HE-6.

So, my question is: Does anyone know if there is a higher quality 1/8" jack available than the typical ones you see at Radio Shack, Parts Express, etc. I see several high quality male 1/8" plugs, but not 1/8" jacks.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: knerian on February 20, 2015, 01:19:38 AM
I would like to change the connectors on my HE-6 to mono 1/8" jacks so I can use cables that have 1/8" mono male plugs. Then I can use the same cable for the Oppo PM2 and the upcoming Audioquest NightHawk. I can also change the Norse Audio cable I have on the HE-6 now from HiFiMan connectors to 1/8" male plugs and use it on the PM2 and NightHawk as well as the HE-6.

So, my question is: Does anyone know if there is a higher quality 1/8" jack available than the typical ones you see at Radio Shack, Parts Express, etc. I see several high quality male 1/8" plugs, but not 1/8" jacks.


How does this work?

http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/Furutech-Valab-Oyaide-Shure-Denon-diy-headphone-cable-connector/Oyaide-J-3-5-mm-1-8-female-mini-rhodium

Although I'm sure you can find cheap ones on Ebay.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: knerian on February 20, 2015, 01:22:16 AM
Arm, I think JoelT thought similarly to you, in that he uses the Vegan pads but adds some reflective tape to it to decrease the absorption.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on February 20, 2015, 04:04:16 AM
Arm, I think JoelT thought similarly to you, in that he uses the Vegan pads but adds some reflective tape to it to decrease the absorption.
Yeah I noticed that. Maybe some kind of wax or something can be applied to the Vegan inner surface to stiffen them up without the ugliness of tape.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: knerian on February 20, 2015, 04:34:58 AM
Yeah I noticed that. Maybe some kind of wax or something can be applied to the Vegan inner surface to stiffen them up without the ugliness of tape.

Ugly?  Wait until I post pics of my fuzzor mods I used neon green felt and my Vegans are shit brown.  Woo hoo!
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: JoelT on February 20, 2015, 05:08:23 AM
I'll be the first to concede* that chicks don't dig 3M packing tape on the inside of headphone pads. Somehow they know that if the inside of your pads are that ugly, you must be ugly on the inside too.  :)p13

*In all seriousness, it does look stupid...despite reducing said lower-treble dip. I only care about how it sounds though.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on February 20, 2015, 05:09:27 AM
You want ugly?... http://www.head-fi.org/t/524540/yay-i-finished-painting-my-grados-purple-talking-dinosaur-style
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: dpump on February 20, 2015, 02:43:47 PM
How does this work?

http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/Furutech-Valab-Oyaide-Shure-Denon-diy-headphone-cable-connector/Oyaide-J-3-5-mm-1-8-female-mini-rhodium

Although I'm sure you can find cheap ones on Ebay.

These connectors are stereo and are used for cables. Too large to fit on the HE-6 because of the recessed area the original connector fits in. Need mono jack and smaller. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll keep looking. I need to email Norne Audio to see if he has something I can use.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: knerian on February 20, 2015, 05:39:39 PM
(http://hk3.image4.pushauction.com/direct/fd/fdd25322-d7df-4881-8b10-3763a86286ef/1f/1f442e1b-0b4c-2994-a067-9eb1718603bd.jpg)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-mm-Female-1-8-Mono-Jack-Audio-Cable-Connectors-Cable-Adapter-Converter-/280562382768?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4152d237b0 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-mm-Female-1-8-Mono-Jack-Audio-Cable-Connectors-Cable-Adapter-Converter-/280562382768?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4152d237b0)
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: dpump on February 21, 2015, 05:11:28 PM
http://demandware.edgesuite.net/sits_pod26/dw/image/v2/AASR_PRD/on/demandware.static/Sites-radioshack-Site/Sites-master-catalog/default/v1424530828424/images/02740251_00.jpg?sw=350&sh=350&sm=fit

RadioShack PN# 2740251 is what I'm talking about. Looking for one that might have better materials. I'm going to get the RS one just to see if it will work.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on March 04, 2015, 08:00:55 AM
It's looking like I might never get my monoblocks fixed, and I kinda don't want a big stack of gear on the table anymore. I feel like I might be leaning back towards a compact setup. What would you guys recommend? For size reference, my dac (balanced) is roughly the size of a thin paperback book. Can I get anything nice in that form-factor-ish that isn't class D? I'd also be open to a dac/amp combo. Heck I'm open to class D, whatever, just looking for options.

I've tried the Emotiva MiniX but really didn't like it.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: joch on April 19, 2015, 12:32:00 PM
Virtue Two.2?

I was thinking of getting a small amp and have taps made, but found that my HP amp was OK with 1500mw. Of course I probably don't know what I'm missing (and probably a good thing...for now) until I get something to connect into my "big" speaker amp in the near future.

BTW...I'm reading the mods on the HFM...gotta try the fuzzor...
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on April 19, 2015, 05:00:06 PM
There was a Virtue over at hf but the seller was asking way too much (especially considering the newer model was just released).

I did get a chance to try the NAD D3020 the other day. I was really impressed on initial listen. A lot of punch and sparkle, but after a few minutes it did start to feel a bit V-shaped. Unfortunately it only has digital inputs, so no telling if that's dac's fault or a combination with the amp. Still, I think I could live with that if I were to plunk down money on something of that form factor.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: joch on April 21, 2015, 03:25:10 AM
Unless you're inclined to a V shape signature, you might sooner or later get tired of it. I speak only as someone with mixed experience of "living with" limitations.

Firestone Audio (now FSA) has some small (cute) amps -- not sure if there are local places you can try them.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on April 21, 2015, 05:02:38 AM
I've always been curious about the Firestone gear, but have never heard them. Them and Travagans were on my list early on, but I just never came across them.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: AstralStorm on April 21, 2015, 06:55:54 AM
Fuzzors make sense on HE-6, but it makes even more sense to get rid of the whole dumb cups and even pads.
AKG K1000/Stax style mounting works. I'm preparing my laser cutter to make the necessary plastic parts.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: joch on April 22, 2015, 06:36:42 AM
Just had the HE-6 fuzzored, and...oh my.

I tried it with one side done initially, to compare with/without the fuzz. It's like somebody filed down the rough edges.

Next up: grill mod.

Question: the silk/fiberglass filling in external cup chamber (under the grill) -- is the consensus to remove that? place in the inside cup chamber? or just leave where I found them? or replace with something else (e.g., JM brand fiberglass as recommended for the T50RP mod)?
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on April 22, 2015, 07:15:41 AM
Get rid of everything on the rear. You don't even need a new grill, you can lightly stretch some nylons and snap it in place with the ring and trim off the excess.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on April 22, 2015, 07:16:58 AM
Actually one thing I did before was line the rear internal edge of the cup with acoustic foam. Not too sure if that made a noticeable difference or not.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: joch on April 22, 2015, 09:34:31 AM
Thanks Armaegis

I'll need a grill...I have kids and am not surprised to find stuff moved around. Or maybe it's just my memory...

Regarding the acoustic foam, that would be interesting to try (except the stuff is not pleasant to work with). I remember Bill P had mentioned placing a strip of Dynamat in the HE-560 as a mod.

Has anyone tried Dynamat in the external side of the HE-6?

I'd give it a try but Dynamat is less pleasant to work with than the foam, and I don't have any measuring equipment to confirm subtle improvements.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on April 22, 2015, 03:30:49 PM
Skip all the dynamat. Some acoustic foam or felt might be ok at the end for the "fuzzor" mod, but that's a final step. Did you get new pads yet?
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: joch on April 22, 2015, 05:44:52 PM
O. M. G.

I didn't know what I was missing

I finally replaced the stock grill with the paper bin variety. This took some time and some scratched up fingers but the hole to wire ratio is much much more than the stock. I then took 3M spray adhesive and apply a light coat over the cut outs, then stick black organza on top. Trimmed and fussed with getting them in.

The sound is phenomenal. Even with my "under powered" headphone amp it sounds so much better than when I first auditioned the HE-6 with a "proper" and massive Burson. (Next, I need to find time to connect the speaker amp adapter for a direct tap. Later.)

The space just really opened up, the edginess is really toned down. I was impressed with just the fuzzoring but found it a bit closed, but the grill mod really released the energy.

The next minor tweak may well be felting around the outer chamber's interior walls, but I'm enjoying this at moment.

BTW, I'm using the Focus A pads. I had tried before the foam HM5s with stuffing tissues in the back. I think the Focus A's are it for now--I'll need to hear a version with the vegan Audeze pads before I'm willing to put in that money for pads. (Not likely I'll get the chance here on this side of the Pacific.) I'm tempted to try some Mr Speakers Alpha pads from a T50RP mod, but I think I'll first try sealing the Focus A rings (a la Jerg).

Gotta go...gotta sleep.


Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: joch on April 22, 2015, 05:48:10 PM
Skip all the dynamat. Some acoustic foam or felt might be ok at the end for the "fuzzor" mod, but that's a final step. Did you get new pads yet?

Armaegis, you mean felting the inside chamber (to the ears)?
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on April 22, 2015, 06:43:48 PM
Oops, I forgot that you had already fuzzored. Nevermind that.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: joch on April 23, 2015, 12:50:26 AM
I had thought you meant lining the cup well wall

That might do something too...or nothing

But the fuzzor is brilliant (nod to jerg for the contribution)

I'll try to post some pics of what was done later
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: joch on April 26, 2015, 08:23:37 AM
The HE-6 now has the fuzzor and the grill mod. I'm awaiting for the aluminum rings to come in before I proceed with better sealing the pads and cups.


The HE-6 with the grill mod sounded and looked so nice, that I dug out my HE-560 and did the same. That was wow too, but maybe further discussion for the 560 mod thread.


(Dr Fang, if you're reading this--I'm totally sold on Hifimans, especially once they're modded.)



In the meantime, the sound is excellent from the mod and I was grinning when I first head the modded pair through my balanced headphone amp.


Having said that, I was curious just how much the HE-6 can scale with proper juice, so recently I ordered the Hifiman Adapter for speaker amps to try out.


(click to show/hide)


PROs:
$99 -- cheap in the audiophile world
not having to DIY
can use other XLR terminated cables (especially with expensive cables you already own, and for other headphones)
attenuated (less likely you'll blow your headphones)
pretty sturdy
convenience: no cables snaking to the back, easy to unplug your headphones

CONs:
$99 -- it's not rocket science, and you can connect directly to the amp with just your cable in reality
sturdy, but it looks a bit DIY
you have to get your own speaker wires to connect (4 pieces total) to your amp
where are the instructions?
Hifiman doesn't recommend it with sensitive headphones. Well, yeah....


The Hifiman Adapter is actually quite nice and sounds good. The look is a bit better than DIY, but it's sturdy. I had thought about going with direct headphones to cables tap to the amp, as well as doing a DIY. The parts for a DIY would probably set me back $50-60 but then I could have picked out components I wanted (e.g., possibly better resistors, a cooler looking box). However, these days I don't really have time to mess with projects, nor wanting any risk of burning my fingers if not my home. The cost savings from the Hifiman Adapter vs direct line to the amp is that I get to use existing cables, rather than reterminating them or buying new ones. Also, this little unit will give me a chance to play with other headphones directly from an amp.


For $99, it's not bad; however, you will have to spend some extra money for some speaker wires ($2-$100, YMMV with how fancy and exotic you want them) and some optional banana/spades ($20-$200, again YMMV). No instructions included, but if you ordered this item you knew exactly what you're doing. Or maybe not--afterall, we are connecting headphones into high powered speaker amps.


I hooked up banana clips to the Hifiman Adapter, and at the other end had spades connecting to sockets that are already used by my speakers (via bananas--had to disconnect the + plugs in the speakers before listening with the Adapter*...until I get an amp or a more powerful headphone amp to drive the HE-6.)

*The reason for unplugging the connection to the speakers for headphone listening is so you don't have both playing while you're using headphones--both the headphones and the speakers are sharing the same music feed. I use spades to the amp because I'm currently having banana plugs from the speakers to the amp--this way, the amp can take both (but can't take 2 sets for bananas). Finally, you can just screw in bare wires.


edits: for clarification
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: jerg on April 26, 2015, 02:48:18 PM
Are you planning to seal using the silicone glue method? Lemme know how that fares.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: joch on April 26, 2015, 03:44:35 PM
hi Jerg

Firstly, thanks for your posts! I'm almost following your recipe to the tee  :D

I'm looking to seal those puppies because there's a lot of leakage between the cups and the pad!

The rings on the HE-6 (and my wood HE-560) are plastic, so there's a little warping when screwed back on the cups. I hope the aluminum rings will give any seal mod a better fit.

I'll probably deviate a bit and experiment with modeling clay first instead of silicon. Got this idea from you with using putty. I wish I can get a hold of that stuff that sticks new credit cards to cards (fugitive glue?) for a less permanent tweak.

For the HE-560, I'm still hearing a bit "shrill" up top but with shelf liner covering the entire driver, it's too dampened. I'll have to experiment a bit with the hole size. Or maybe add some fiberglass. Or maybe ask Bill P what he did...but of course, what sounds right to some might be fingers against a blackboard for others.

More experiments to do...

Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on April 26, 2015, 03:51:11 PM

The rings on the HE-6 (and my wood HE-560) are plastic, so there's a little warping when screwed back on the cups. I hope the aluminum rings will give any seal mod a better fit.

I'll probably deviate a bit and experiment with modeling clay first instead of silicon. Got this idea from you with using putty. I wish I can get a hold of that stuff that sticks new credit cards to cards (fugitive glue?) for a less permanent tweak.


I *think* the warping is just caused by little plastic nubs on the ring that can be sanded/cut off without ill effect.

I like to use plumber's putty for quick sealing needs.

I like the idea of using fugitive/creditcard glue, but I've never seen that stuff in the stores.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: knerian on April 26, 2015, 04:04:41 PM
hi Jerg

Firstly, thanks for your posts! I'm almost following your recipe to the tee  :D

I'm looking to seal those puppies because there's a lot of leakage between the cups and the pad!

The rings on the HE-6 (and my wood HE-560) are plastic, so there's a little warping when screwed back on the cups. I hope the aluminum rings will give any seal mod a better fit.

I'll probably deviate a bit and experiment with modeling clay first instead of silicon. Got this idea from you with using putty. I wish I can get a hold of that stuff that sticks new credit cards to cards (fugitive glue?) for a less permanent tweak.

For the HE-560, I'm still hearing a bit "shrill" up top but with shelf liner covering the entire driver, it's too dampened. I'll have to experiment a bit with the hole size. Or maybe add some fiberglass. Or maybe ask Bill P what he did...but of course, what sounds right to some might be fingers against a blackboard for others.

More experiments to do...



I am getting aluminum rings for this reason, the plastic ones suck and they warp.  The aluminum ones are thinner (you can check on your HE-560) so you need to use something to make up for the difference, like a ring of felt or foam or whatever.  But it would be an improvement to the plastic rings.

As for glue, look for "glue dots" brand, they also carry strips of adhesive (not just dots) that is like the credit card adhesive.  3m I think.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: joch on April 28, 2015, 05:00:23 PM
I probably need to address the HE-560 mod elsewhere, but I've managed to tone down the highs a bit with the excess stuffing (silk?) from the back of the HE-6. I'm loving the 560 almost as much as the 6.

Anyway, still waiting for the aluminum rings to arrive before any further mods to either.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: joch on May 06, 2015, 05:34:10 PM
I tried the temporary electrical tape (external) seal of the ear pads to the cups for the HE-6. See HF post on the technique on the 560: http://www.head-fi.org/t/738912/he-560-enhancement-mod-v1-5/240#post_11363521

Slightly more bass to the already excellent bass of the HE-6 (with the mods). However, I DON'T recommend the electrical tape even for a temporary try at sealing the ear pads because when I removed the tape to install the aluminum rings, some of the paint finish came off with the tape. Don't go there, unless your cups are already a bit abused.

So far I had the Al rings installed in the HE-6, and the rings as mentioned by knerian are a bit sunk into the cups. I put the ear pads back into the rings for now as I don't have time to do the seal mod. But I found the sunken rings actually create a much more tight fit between the cups and the pads, even though it took a lot more fussing to get them connected. And the rigidness of the Al rings are much much better in keeping the pads against the cups.

Suggestion: don't have the Al rings flushed to the edge of the cups--the difference in height creates a better seal with the ear pads (barring going jerg's silicon method)
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: knerian on May 06, 2015, 07:08:41 PM
I tried the temporary electrical tape (external) seal of the ear pads to the cups for the HE-6. See HF post on the technique on the 560: http://www.head-fi.org/t/738912/he-560-enhancement-mod-v1-5/240#post_11363521

Slightly more bass to the already excellent bass of the HE-6 (with the mods). However, I DON'T recommend the electrical tape even for a temporary try at sealing the ear pads because when I removed the tape to install the aluminum rings, some of the paint finish came off with the tape. Don't go there, unless your cups are already a bit abused.

So far I had the Al rings installed in the HE-6, and the rings as mentioned by knerian are a bit sunk into the cups. I put the ear pads back into the rings for now as I don't have time to do the seal mod. But I found the sunken rings actually create a much more tight fit between the cups and the pads, even though it took a lot more fussing to get them connected. And the rigidness of the Al rings are much much better in keeping the pads against the cups.

Suggestion: don't have the Al rings flushed to the edge of the cups--the difference in height creates a better seal with the ear pads (barring going jerg's silicon method)


Oh that is indeed very interesting, I may steal the rings from my abused 560 to try that.  I thought you would want it flush, that's a great observation.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on May 07, 2015, 03:22:16 AM
That's a poor paint job if electrical tape pulled it off  :-00
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: joch on May 07, 2015, 11:48:44 AM
...or very good electrical tape.

Yeah, very disappointed as I got the HE-6 recently (although as a demo unit from a local vendor). It's just one small fleck of paint (like electroplating) that got stuck to the tape. Really like the piano black finish, so it's a shame.

I also find that the cups are not sturdy enough to resist small dinks (not visible from afar).

I'm hoping that HFM avails replacement cups for owners, well, if I ever need to repair them.

Has there been anyone who changed the color of the original piano black? or change the cup to, say, wood?

Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on May 07, 2015, 02:26:21 PM
LFF would be the guy to ask.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: melikeheadphone on May 12, 2015, 05:27:22 AM
Has anyone successfully replaced the headband on the HE-6? I'm particularly interested in the one posted in Page 1 (from Taobao). I've reached out to the seller (got a friend who can write Mandarin) but they haven't gotten back to us. My friend did say the TaoBao page explicitly mention the screws can be matched to whatever headphone the buyers might need.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: joch on May 12, 2015, 12:52:08 PM
You can try Hifiman Customer Service to see if you can buy a replacement (if out of warranty). They're actually quite responsive and pleasant to deal with.

If you want something entirely different for comfort reasons, can't help you there. Although there are mods (e.g., suspension straps, headband warmers).
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Thujone on September 08, 2015, 01:30:14 PM
Happy new HE-6 owner here. No mods yet, just pad rolling (velour, pleather, focus pad, and Shure 1540). I immediately swapped pleather for velour before listening (remembering velour>pleather for nearly every other Hifiman), then tried the others before coming back to pleather and thinking "why not?" I'm surprised to say I like the pleathers the most. Not as airy, a little more bass presence, but the treble is more controlled. Mods will change this, I presume.

What's all this talk about the Al mounting rings? I see them on the site, don't understand the purpose.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: joch on September 08, 2015, 03:10:16 PM
There's no right or wrong pad as long as you enjoy them. Just the only topic that get people a bit heated is the way it's amped. But it's civilized here.

Currently, the pad for comfort and general SQ are the Audeze 'vegan' ones. Pricey, but if I had known earlier about these, I probably would have saved some money from experimenting with other pads.

Regarding the aluminum rings, these don't really do anything except maybe give assurance that they're more rigid than the already thick plastic rings that came with your headphones. Also, the Al rings don't "flush" with the cups, so when screwed in they are sunk a bit into the cup. They look nice though, and there are notches that will stop your Focus and Focus-A pads from swiveling around the cups.

For the vegan pad mod, you're better off with sticking with the plastic rings because these offer a flatter surface to stick the pads to the cup.

And welcome to the club. Hope you're enjoying the 6s.

Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Prydz on September 08, 2015, 03:23:58 PM
plastic rings? Isent it best to just glue it on with the included adhesive?
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: joch on September 08, 2015, 03:45:50 PM
plastic rings? Isent it best to just glue it on with the included adhesive?

Prydz, you misunderstood, but are correct. Better to keep the plastic rings on and stick the vegan pads on those. No need to replace the plastic rings with the aluminum rings that Hifiman made for the HE560 (veneer version).

The aluminum rings in question: http://hifiman.com/products/detail/208
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Thujone on September 08, 2015, 06:31:35 PM
Thanks for the info, joch.

Another question: I see tons of people automatically removing the cotton/fiberglass material on the back of the driver. It seems the consensus is "remove, 'cause treble" but I couldn't find a definitive explanation as to whether it increases or decreases treble by removing?
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Armaegis on September 08, 2015, 06:48:46 PM
You know that feeling where you hover your hand over the back of the headphone then remove it, making the sound more "open"? Removing the stuff behind the driver takes that another step in the same direction.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Thujone on September 08, 2015, 07:58:01 PM
Right, makes sense. I was under the impression that the material acted as some sort of dampening for specific frequencies, based on all the comments relating the cotton to treble. I'll fool around a bit.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Prydz on September 08, 2015, 08:02:29 PM
You know that feeling where you hover your hand over the back of the headphone then remove it, making the sound more "open"? Removing the stuff behind the driver takes that another step in the same direction.

Anyone tried doing this with Audeze? Why is there so few modding LCD-3? :D
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: ohhgourami on September 08, 2015, 08:06:50 PM
Anyone tried doing this with Audeze? Why is there so few modding LCD-3? :D

Negura did it.
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Judeus on September 10, 2015, 01:29:52 AM
Negura did it.

probably because they are never with their owners, always back at audeze getting their drivers replaced
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Prydz on September 14, 2015, 08:09:54 PM
I been using the microsuede Audeze pads since saturday. They are truly the best pads for Hifiman!
Almost wish I ordered a pair for my LCD-3F aswell.

Anyway, I might get a First Watt F6, what u guys think about that? However, then I need a preamp or dac with pre. A guy recommended me a Essence HDACC, which is a rather cheap unit. But I have no clue about preamps, dac with pre etc, so idk whats the better option.

Else i'll just get a Audio GD Master 10
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Clemmaster on September 14, 2015, 09:27:25 PM
F6 is great. It's high input impedance (100k) makes it well suited for passive volume control.

I ordered a Tortuga LDR 3.2 v2 for it. It is pretty pricey, but I'm rich stupid. They have a 30-day risk-free trial, too.
Hasn't shipped, yet.

Alternatively, you can use a quality passive stepped attenuator (GoldPoint SA1, Axiom II w/ walker mod, Khozmo).
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: Prydz on September 15, 2015, 05:10:00 AM
Oh well then its not that expensive. I was worried I would need to spend equal amount of the F6 into a preamp or something...
Title: Re: HE-6 modding/amping thread
Post by: itsJokko on September 23, 2015, 06:16:23 PM
Question for the hifiman nuts here, what would you recommend out of a modded HE560 vs. HE6 from a "headphone" amp, say like the Mjolnir2?`
 :-Z