CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Marvey on December 14, 2013, 08:13:57 PM
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Sony MDR-R1.
Quick subjective impression notes: Just too much bass, no doubt made even worse by less than exemplary bass distortion which bleeds into the low vocal range. The low treble has a slight "hard" quality to it when turned up, although nothing in the FR would indicate this otherwise. The midrange is very nice. The driver seems to have some potential for resolving plankton, so long as the recording doesn't have any bass to congest everything to the nightosphere.
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Shut! That looks (both FR and distortion) and sounds (from your impressions) a lot like my stock HD202s!
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In stock form, the MDR-R1 just not very good. If mean if Sony's Nao Tsunoda stopped by my house and brought these to me for listen, I would be put in a very awkward position because I wouldn't want to inadvertently insult him with "WTF bass" facial impressions.
Modified these are good. The mids are good (just slightly shouty), but the bass distortion is a killer. These had so much potential. Sony can must do better.
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Tsunoda was surprisingly forthcoming at RMAF about tuning the response to fit a market segment rather than strive for neutrality.
Apparently the market breakdown with Sony headphones is that people love either fat, sloppy bass or none at all.
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I take it you mean the 1R and not the R1? My friend has a pair, and I thought that they had a similar sound signature to the hd600 but much less refined. I told him to do the dynamat mod to it, but he didn't really care too much to do the mod.
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No wonder they sound a bit lazy. I might give mine the Dynamat treatment.
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Too bad. Really great looking headphones, but most Sony phones have been basket cases in terms of response for quite awhile. The Z1000 was meh, and I absolutely hated the SA-5000. From my vague memories the CD-1700 and 2000 weren't too shabby, but they made those things like 15 years ago at least. The 3000 IIRC was kind of odd.
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I love the SA5000.
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How would you deal with the bass without eq? I don't think mass loading the cups would make that much of a difference at that end of the spectrum.
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If there is a port inside the cups, reducing it or completely sealing it may help with tuning the bass.
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After mods.
- I did not block the ports to reduce the bass, but inserted a shim into the front bottom of the pads to allow the headphones to "breath". Blocking (or partially blocking) the ports resulted in too much loss of low bass and seemed to bring about an increased shoutiness to vocals
- Select parts of the cup, baffle, and back of driver were "Dynamatted." I only used small pieces and did not go overboard. I suspect the dynamat really helps to lower the higher order distortions of the bass
- The inside of the cup was densely stuffed with acoustic fiber (NOT THE SAME AS COTTON, WALMART PILLOW STUFFING). This seemed to fill in the slight recess in the upper bass, lower mids.
BEFORE
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1300.0;attach=4913;image)
AFTER
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1300.0;attach=4941;image)
BEFORE
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1300.0;attach=4915;image)
AFTER
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1300.0;attach=4943;image)
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Yes, sealing the tinny port inside the HD202 completely removes the bass, which to me is worse than stock.
The port on those (HD202) almost has to be the size of a needle pin head... The shim idea sounds like a great alternative. Also, thanks for the pointers on the damping scheme to improve on distortion results.
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Mod Notes:
- Internal acoustic stuffing not shown.
- Shim under earpads not shown.
- The "dynamat" was roofing material from Home Depot. Both sides are adhesive. I placed a layer of fuzzy pillow stuffing over one side. If I had to do it again, I would have used Creatology foam. My supply ran out. The fuzzy stuff doesn't do anything other than prevent one side from sticking to everything. It should not be confused with the acoustic stuffing which I crammed into the cups (again, not pictured.)
Sound Notes:
- Bringing the bass down a bit reveals the slight sharpness and rough nature of the treble. I may take out the shims under the pads to bring the bass back.
- I'd like more air. Upper half of octave seems rolled.
- Still slightly congested in the bass. That high D2 in the sub to low bass just isn't going away.
- Works best at low to moderate volumes. The driver does not like being driven hard.
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hmmmm really tempted to try this mod just because they're the darn comfiest portable-ish headphones I've used so far, and had pretty decent mid-range to me.
I can get a pair for ~$100 which I'd say is a pretty good price, in Europe and everything. and I don't listen very loud at all.
so, a few questions!
dynamat extreme, is that the thing to get? I have no idea what the difference between what you used and dynamat is.
or are you saying you'd skip the dynamat treatment altogether and go with the Creatology foam solo?
if not, dynamat + creatology is the way to go?
although, hmm... would you mind making some more detailed instructions? I don't think I'm very good at modding headphones :)p18
but I understand it's a bit much to ask for, just no idea where to start. :D
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Just use regular dynamat type material. Part of it is mass loading the cups. I actually used roofing material.
- Dynamat on inside back of cups.
- Dynamat small piece of back of driver (don't cover up any vents or holes if any)
- Stuff with acoustic fiber (cotton is NOT the same thing!!!)
No Creatology. Don't worry about being perfect in lining up surfaces.
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oh, cool. let's see then...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dynamat-DYN10415-Xtreme-Speaker-Pack/dp/B00020CATC/
this is what people use right?
I can't really find anything that is acoustic fiber here, I don't really know what that might be. is there any brandname for these type of things?
any reason why you advise against creatology, despite talking about it in the previous post?
thanks!
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Can you get wool in place of acoustic fiber?
No Creatology which is mainly used to absorb sounds of a certain frequency. We are using dynamat to mass load the cups to prevent them from vibrating. The dynamat material is kind of heavy. The wool or fiber is the expand the effective internal volume - possibly lowering bass a tiny tiny bit and offer a more spacious presentation - in addition to absorbing any back waves which might reflect inside the cup back through the driver.
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ah, right, well that's what I assumed. I just don't know each material's properties enough to make sense of it.
ok, so... sorry if I'm not understanding this at all but does it matter what type of wool? density, thickness, like a pressed wool type thing or...?
unless they don't really make that much of a difference that it would matter?
if it reduces bass volume just a little bit, I'd rather not skip this step - a bit too much of that loose bass is the only thing that I am on the fence on with these phones. :P
fairly sure I can get some sort of wool, but I have no idea what type to look for.
thanks again!
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honestly, i don't think it did that much to the bass. As for wool, look for stuff teased out to maximize volume to mass.
I would recommend fiberglass insulation, but that stuff is nasty.
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ohh alright, so just some wooly wool. okay, that makes sense. should read up on exactly how it affects the sound... curious now.
:D yeah I'd rather not deal with fiberglass insulation. had a few incidents with that before.
thank you, I think I'll give this a shot. you make it sound easy enough!
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thinking about it makes things harder :-)
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pfft, thinking is fun! and I sort of expected it to be somewhat difficult without LEGO type blueprints...
ordering a pair this weekend, will go see if I can get dynamat locally or else I'll amazon it up.
btw: do these improve anything with an amp? I caved in and got myself one of those Leckertonkers after all. should have it next week!
update: it arrived today. that was fast. I guess I will find out myself later.
anyway, thank you once again mr purrin!
update2: I just found out there's an MK2 version of these. what do... :)p14
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They 1R does scale decently, especially in the mids. It doesn't scale like Abyss, HD800, HD600, LCD2, etc. of course, but it's better than say something like the Momentum or NAD in that regard. I actually enjoyed the 1R from the 4-45, tried it just for kicks. Just don't turn up the volume. It really falls apart when it gets loud. It's my current gaming / work headphone because of its comfort.
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cool, excited to try it out then! didn't expect any miracles in scaling since it is meant for portable use, but definitely nice if the mids can improve a bit further.
that's essentially what I plan to use it as, too. study/work/gaming headphone. and yeah, due to comfort. and not being very harsh sounding IME/IMO.
well, I'll report back when I actually have the phones.
what I found on the MK2 is that they supposedly should seal better and have better bass or something like that, but golden-ears measurements seem to indicate that not much has changed. bass rolled off even earlier, but suspecting unit variation is more likely? not sure. some people are saying cable difference is all that's new. seems weird to name it mk2 if it's only about a new cable... being Sony and all.
though I'm sure for 100 bucks + modding materials, it's still a good deal for a comfy phone. so I should just get the "mk1".
mod performed, mod enjoyed - bass is a lot more tolerable now. I'm going to start a business!
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I just tried out the mk1 and the mk2 in a sony style store today. I couldn't tell the difference actually. My listening impressions sort of matched what was posted earlier. I think it would have been good if the bass was reduced. On the first try it sounded good but it became apparent that the bass was too much after two minutes. I also tried their hybrid iems but wasn't impressed by any - too bassy as well. I guess bass is what Sony is really aiming for these days.
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If you don't like the bass, then EQ it out. If you're listening straight from a PC then that can get tricky because a system-wide EQ is usually most desirable. Something like Equalizer APO is good for that... BUT it is a pain in the rear to setup just right because you're typing stuff in a text file to set the levels.
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Dynamat and acoustic fiber modded my MDR-1R this morning.
This mod really does make a substantial difference. These clean up really nicely. I didn't quite expect this level of improvement. Thanks for posting this Marv (and thanks Munch for following up and getting more mod details)!
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I went over to the other site's Dynamat mod thread and put up pics. http://www.head-fi.org/t/665529/dynamat-mod-for-sony-mdr-1r/60#post_10515886
Credit and attribution given to Marv at the top for doing all the heavy lifting. If it wouldn't just get edited out with a generic "I hope you understand even if you don't agree" form letter from the mods, I'd have also direct linked to this thread.