CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

Lobby => Head Amps, DACs, Sources, Portable Equipment Discussion => Topic started by: Judeus on July 03, 2014, 10:26:01 AM

Title: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Judeus on July 03, 2014, 10:26:01 AM
I am in the market for a DAP for my shure se846 and I'm not really sure what to go for, the main 4 I've been looking at: (no A&K, seems overpriced)

Fiio X5
DX90
HM-901 w/ iem card
HM-802 w/ iem card


Help?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: tidak_ceta on July 03, 2014, 11:25:40 AM
AK120 is the most appreciated here.
Special Mention by Anax: Nokia N8 (Airplane Mode) -> USB OTG -> Leckerton UHA-6S.
Stay away from ibasso/Fiio, lot of people give thumb down to AK100 and even the AK240.

Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Judeus on July 03, 2014, 12:04:26 PM
Okay and what about the hifiman? The ak120 is even more then the 901
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: burnspbesq on July 03, 2014, 03:16:18 PM
My advice? Chill.  People who have heard the prototypes of the Geek Wave and the PONO player have reported highly favorable impressions of both.  I expect at least one, if not both, to be available in Q4 (if either product misses the holiday season, the marketing people will have the product development people drawn and quartered).

If you can't wait, get a used iPod Touch as an interim solution.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Eric_C on July 03, 2014, 03:41:04 PM
I'm waiting for a Geek Wave (I really hope it does make it for Q4 this year); meanwhile I've traded in carrying around a DAP & amp for a simple Clip+. My JH13 sound just fine out of the little player.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: thegunner100 on July 03, 2014, 04:21:06 PM
If you can tolerate a bit of sabre glare on the dx90, then go for it imo. It does things pretty well for its price, and the UI is very easy to use.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Judeus on July 03, 2014, 04:55:43 PM
I'm waiting for a Geek Wave (I really hope it does make it for Q4 this year); meanwhile I've traded in carrying around a DAP & amp for a simple Clip+. My JH13 sound just fine out of the little player.


They dont look anything special TBH, the geek wave XD is $899 and has almost identical specs to the dx90

the pono is a toblerone (who the fuck thought that would be a good idea) and uses a single Wolfson 87XX

Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: anetode on July 03, 2014, 05:15:38 PM
To go against the grain here, try the fiio X3. I haven't heard its noise floor with the IEMs I've used so far and there's enough power for fullsized cans as well. Plus you don't get the same possibility of buyers' remorse as with a 500+$ DAP.

If you really must scratch that audiophile supremacy itch there's also the Geek Wave + IEM package.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: gelocks on July 03, 2014, 05:41:10 PM
I personally use the AK100 MK2 and had an X3 (and was also part of the X5 tour).
I feel that the AK100 MK2 does most things well. It has some quirks and stupid bugs but which player doesn't?
The X3 is indeed powerful and provides good sound output. I really like the X5 but its Library Management sucks and tops out at 5600 or so music files. (and yes, I have more files than that and I live by the 'Shuffle All songs in the library' mode which can't be done on the FiiO unless you have less than 5600 files :)).

So if you are more of a "browser mode" type of guy/gal, then I'd choose the X5 just based on price, sound quality and support.
(forget about firmware upgrades for AK MK100/120 etc...)

Good luck.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on July 03, 2014, 05:45:08 PM
To go against the grain here, try the fiio X3. I haven't heard its noise floor with the IEMs I've used so far and there's enough power for fullsized cans as well. Plus you don't get the same possibility of buyers' remorse as with a 500+$ DAP.

If you really must scratch that audiophile supremacy itch there's also the Geek Wave + IEM package.

The X3 I heard is pretty much on par with the Clip+.  I wouldn't have bothered based on SQ except it seems like you wanted more drive for headphones.

For now I still use the UHA6Smk2 as an amp but prefer my Venue 8 Pro running JRiver>GeekOut>UHA6S based purely on SQ.  Since I got my tablet, the Nokia N8 has been retired.  The GeekOut also replaced the ODAC btw which is also superior to the X3/X5/901/AK240/Clip+.  I haven't heard the 901 IEM card btw.  I know his amp modules can sound quite different.  His basic amps tend to sound like garbage historically speaking.

I'll be getting a Wave fyi.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: anetode on July 03, 2014, 05:56:31 PM
The X3 I heard is pretty much on par with the Clip+.  I wouldn't have bothered based on SQ except it seems like you wanted more drive for headphones.
...
I'll be getting a Wave fyi.

Good thing the Clip is an awesome DAP to begin with  p;)

I'll be getting a loaded Wave too, it'll be nice to have a DAP that can do all of the music-related functions of a smartphone without the hassle, memory limitations or mediocre headphone output.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: DaveBSC on July 03, 2014, 08:04:14 PM
The original AK100 stunk. The newer ones are definitely better, but I think the Hifimans beat them, at least the 100 and 120 anyway. If you can tolerate the bricky brick and the awful UI, the 901 with the balanced card is very nice. I haven't heard it with the IEM option.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: blue on July 03, 2014, 08:34:54 PM
I'd have my eyes on the Calyx M, and of course the new Geek dap.

100/120/240 are all  poo for the price, I hope the new AK120 II is better. 901 is meh.

I still miss my old kenwood.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on July 03, 2014, 08:45:32 PM
I'd have my eyes on the Calyx M, and of course the new Geek dap.

100/120/240 are all  poo for the price, I hope the new AK120 II is better. 901 is meh.

I still miss my old kenwood.


The 120 II is now using the same cirrus chip in the 240 which I think is worse than the 120 I personally.

I've been waiting for the Calyx M as well, but looks like they lost their distributor or something happened.  Who even knows how it compares to the CES prototype.  They wouldn't let me use my swap in my own sd card because they were worried it might melt if I did or something.  I think it was all hand soldered and the software was very beta at the time.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Greed on July 03, 2014, 09:24:39 PM
Battery life is apparently horrid on the M, so no go for me. Early reports are 2-3 hours of mixed playback (Hi-Res/Redbook). I'm still on the fence about the Geek Wave. I put down for the 32, but am holding off upgrading it to a loaded player till they are ready to release. It seems like their trend is, allowing the backers to upgrade there units even after the campaign is over. They offered the option on the Geek Out, and on the Geek Pulse survey.

Right now, there isn't much out there that comes even close to desktop quality, a fool's errand. I came to terms and would recommend the Sony ZX1 for something that has good storage, fluid/well-designed UI, and relatively good sound quality. The HM-901 with the balanced amp module is also very nice, although a tad too warm for me but nice full sound. Apple recently dropped the prices on their iPod Touch 5G to $299 for a 64gb version. You can pick up a refurbished one (with factory warranty) for $229 which is a pretty good deal for something ultra portable. Portable audio seems like it is all about compromises. 
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Kunlun on July 03, 2014, 10:30:23 PM
I use a 5.5 gen ipod with the wolfson chip (160 or so with 80gb) plus an apex glacier and it's a pretty reasonable set-up.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on July 03, 2014, 11:23:07 PM
The HM-901 with the balanced amp module is also very nice, although a tad too warm for me but nice full sound.

I agree with this although not too nice for what I'd prefer.  I'd say to save money and get a warm, full sound go for the X5 if we are giving up on desktop quality.

If the M sounded right and could charge via USB, I'd just hook up a remote battery pack to it.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Eric_C on July 04, 2014, 01:20:00 AM
They dont look anything special TBH, the geek wave XD is $899 and has almost identical specs to the dx90

Identical except the dimensions. The DX90 is a brick, the Wave *may* not be a brick--that's to be seen as yet.
Also, why does one have to pay for a XD? It's up to the individual, but I only sprang for a Wave 32 with no upgrades. Looks more than good enough for me, and it's significantly cheaper than a DX90.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on July 04, 2014, 01:59:32 AM
I can pretty much guarantee the Wave 32 sounds better than the DX100 did.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Claritas on July 04, 2014, 02:19:47 AM
I'm currently looking into modding my iPod 5.5 with an SSD drive, though I'm concerned about how high-res playback will affect battery life. Regardless, it's very dependable compared with most boutique DAPs. X3 is a step up in sound quality and features (EQ bass -1 to eliminate the hazy warmth) though not in UI/GUI.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: CEE TEE on July 04, 2014, 02:41:09 AM
I'm thinking about a belt clip for my 11" MacBook Air > Audirvana or Amarra 3.0 > GO 450 > HD600
Is this a DAP?  (I walk around the place with it occasionally...some freeware lets me operate it with the lid closed.)
Instead of rolling PWD Firmware Revisions and tubes, I have been rolling software and Geek Outs.   :)p8
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: zerodeefex on July 04, 2014, 05:48:17 PM
My favorite transportable: Venue 8 pro > GO450. One hell of a combo and more compact than the air.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: gelocks on July 05, 2014, 03:13:18 AM
I can pretty much guarantee the Wave 32 sounds better than the DX100 did.

Wait, so did you already tested a prototype or something?!?! (or is the DX100 that bad sounding! lol ;))
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on July 05, 2014, 06:09:23 AM
Something like that.  ;)
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: gelocks on July 05, 2014, 07:08:50 AM
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6888610816/hCBD76B59/)

LOL!  :-00  :)p17
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Hawaiiancerveza on July 15, 2014, 10:17:42 PM
To buy the geek week player, is there another way besides making your own campaign to sign people up? I haven't found another option to pay for it.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: shipsupt on July 16, 2014, 09:47:11 AM
I'm thinking about a belt clip for my 11" MacBook Air > Audirvana or Amarra 3.0 > GO 450 > HD600
Is this a DAP?  (I walk around the place with it occasionally...some freeware lets me operate it with the lid closed.)
Instead of rolling PWD Firmware Revisions and tubes, I have been rolling software and Geek Outs.   :)p8

Here you go CEE TEE!

(http://cl.jroo.me/z3/s/9/q/d/a.aaa-idiot-guy-uses-a-laptop-as-a.jpg)
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: CEE TEE on July 16, 2014, 11:29:25 PM
Sign that guy up!!!


I bet he is making some tasty hot wings on that Binford 5000e Deluxe Dual-Action Range (http://homeimprovement.wikia.com/wiki/Binford_Tools) too (based on his priorities & level of effort).
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on July 16, 2014, 11:33:06 PM
To buy the geek week player, is there another way besides making your own campaign to sign people up? I haven't found another option to pay for it.

For now it had to be during the campaign.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Hawaiiancerveza on July 17, 2014, 12:44:59 AM
Ya I tried to open a ticket asking about how to purchase it and they haven't answered so far. 

Would the Cowon J3 be a good grab at $130?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: HideousPride on July 17, 2014, 01:36:08 AM
Ya I tried to open a ticket asking about how to purchase it and they haven't answered so far. 

Would the Cowon J3 be a good grab at $130?

I liked it a couple years back for having a decent interface and insane battery life. Sound wasn't anything too amazing but the EQ options were fun to play with. I probably wouldn't pick one up today with all of the options out there.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Hawaiiancerveza on July 17, 2014, 02:25:09 AM
What else kind of options?  I'm looking for a DAP better than the Sansa sport.  It doesn't give the best audio but I do like it for sports purposes. But, I'd still like something to listen to while on the go. 

I was looking at the geek wave but I guess I missed that boat. 
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Claritas on July 20, 2014, 11:01:50 AM
The original AK100 stunk. The newer ones are definitely better . . .

Do you mean only the original AK100 that had problems with IEMs or all the AK100s before the new Cirrus-based one?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: DaveBSC on July 20, 2014, 06:47:57 PM
The original AK100 stunk. The newer ones are definitely better . . .

Do you mean only the original AK100 that had problems with IEMs or all the AK100s before the new Cirrus-based one?

I never listened to the 100 with IEMs. I don't think I've heard the one with the fix for that, but I doubt it otherwise transformed the sound of the player.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: BlackenedPlague on July 20, 2014, 11:43:50 PM
Ya I tried to open a ticket asking about how to purchase it and they haven't answered so far. 

Would the Cowon J3 be a good grab at $130?

For $130 I'd go for it, unless you want to spend a little extra for "muh hi-res" in the Colorfly C3 (and glorious hi-res at that too, Mile Davis in 24/88.2khz on the DX50)
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Hawaiiancerveza on July 21, 2014, 04:33:36 AM
Ya I tried to open a ticket asking about how to purchase it and they haven't answered so far. 

Would the Cowon J3 be a good grab at $130?

For $130 I'd go for it, unless you want to spend a little extra for "muh hi-res" in the Colorfly C3 (and glorious hi-res at that too, Mile Davis in 24/88.2khz on the DX50)

Haha well, I am looking at the Geek wave XD now.  I don't have the funds yet but I'll need to save up. 
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Eric_C on July 21, 2014, 05:29:20 AM
Haven't they closed the campaign for Geek Wave?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Hawaiiancerveza on July 21, 2014, 06:38:36 AM
I opened a ticket asking about the 32 and I was told that it was $167 plus $14 for shipping.  I'm not sure about the XD if that is involved with the campaign.  If it is I'm assuming they are build already.  But I don't have al my facts straight as the info isn't really organized on the site.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: BleaK on August 08, 2014, 10:33:43 AM
Has anyone here tried the FiiO X5 coax out into the Leckerton UHA-6S.MkII? This should be pretty decent portable setup.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on August 08, 2014, 07:12:55 PM
Has anyone here tried the FiiO X5 coax out into the Leckerton UHA-6S.MkII? This should be pretty decent portable setup.

Actually I haven't.  I might give it a go if I remember this weekend.  At this point though, I think the DAC on the Leck might just be overshadowed by other alternatives no matter how it is fed.  Bypassing the crap usb input is the best option to get the DAC sounding better however.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: lumos on August 08, 2014, 07:16:36 PM
heh I think for the price clip+ is the best. Unfortunately not powerful enough for some headphones
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on August 08, 2014, 07:23:42 PM
heh I think for the price clip+ is the best. Unfortunately not powerful enough for some headphones

Or transparent enough.  Power is just one factor.  But yes for money it's a good deal.  I have two laying around here, one still in its box.  If you are willing to spend $$$ on IEMs, you are doing a disservice choking them on a Clip+ unless you A)love the Clip packaging/form factor, B)bought crappy expensive IEMs that aren't any better than a good $200 IEM.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: BleaK on August 10, 2014, 01:09:30 PM

Actually I haven't.  I might give it a go if I remember this weekend.  At this point though, I think the DAC on the Leck might just be overshadowed by other alternatives no matter how it is fed.  Bypassing the crap usb input is the best option to get the DAC sounding better however.


Yeah report back if you try it! I have tried the leckerton with alot of devices through USB OTG, but I feel like most of the time the line in is better. However with a custom short RCA to minijack coax cable from the Fiio X5 to the leckerton might be a really good portable solution.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: burnspbesq on August 10, 2014, 05:04:45 PM
If you bypass the internal audio circuitry by taking a bitstream out the Lightning port via the Camera Connection Kit, the iPod Touch wins, hands down, based on size and UI. And it's better than its reputation as a standalone. For non-critical listening (e.g., the gym), I'm perfectly happy with iPod Touch and UERM.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: lumos on August 10, 2014, 05:10:00 PM
heh I think for the price clip+ is the best. Unfortunately not powerful enough for some headphones

Or transparent enough.  Power is just one factor.  But yes for money it's a good deal.  I have two laying around here, one still in its box.  If you are willing to spend $$$ on IEMs, you are doing a disservice choking them on a Clip+ unless you A)love the Clip packaging/form factor, B)bought crappy expensive IEMs that aren't any better than a good $200 IEM.

I am using Ultimate ears Triple fi 10 with some sony tips they sound decent on clip+. I am not huge fan of IEMs just I need them for the buss :D   

I compared Clip+ and Odac/O2 combo, using my modded Shure SRH940. O2/Odac had slightly more articulated bass and slightly more lets say refined sound overall.

However yeah Clip+ is very good for the price... I had a chance to listen Fiio X5 with M50 and I liked them
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: altrunox on October 31, 2014, 04:02:19 PM
 :vomit: :vomit: :vomit: :vomit: :vomit:

(http://i58.tinypic.com/2m2ysr9.jpg)

(http://i61.tinypic.com/2emh9ao.jpg)

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2014/10/astell-kern-ak240-blue-note-75-new-and.html

6k... :spank:  ??? :o
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: gelocks on October 31, 2014, 05:44:19 PM
Wow...
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: ultrabike on October 31, 2014, 05:53:01 PM
(http://www.picgifs.com/smileys/smileys-and-emoticons/money/smileys-money-114847.gif) ...  facepalm
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on October 31, 2014, 10:16:51 PM
That'll never sell.  Not enough dragons.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Marvey on November 01, 2014, 01:09:36 AM
You are playing a joke? no?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: burnspbesq on November 01, 2014, 02:23:22 AM
You are playing a joke? no?

Nope.

http://www.bluenote.com/news/astellkern-celebrates-blue-note
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Armaegis on November 01, 2014, 08:48:54 AM
Jebus that's a half year of mortgage payments right there...
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Rotijon on January 25, 2015, 04:08:11 PM
Hmm, given a choice.

Would would guys rather have a geekout 450 only or a leckerton UHS only?

Just bought a roxxane on an amazing deal, thinking of something portable to use it with it My D42 mamba seems abit lackluster.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Sorrodje on January 25, 2015, 06:18:28 PM
My D42 mamba seems abit lackluster.

I liked this thing a lot when I had it. Not compared to better offers though so I'm interested in comparison between this Ibasso and better offers.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on January 25, 2015, 08:38:53 PM
@rotijon

do you need an all in one solution?

if you like the geek 450 get the plastic pono.  I owned both for 2 weeks and A/Bing with my UERMs and with/out my piccolo amp, the geek had slightly better separation and timber but I could only tell when they were right next to each other.  Get the plastic I had the metal and it felt cheap as hell. things to worry about:
 
ui is slightly better(if not as bad as) the first gen ak100+ak120
battery life is like 7 hours with 16bit flac


I don't recommend anything with digital volume as every manufacture tries to find a middle ground between full size cans and iems so unless you listen really loud volumes you will be at the lower end of the volume and the dynamics and soundstage will suck (yes I am aware that both the geek and pono have digital volume control but I was attempting to work at your reference point). but if you insist on a modern dap here my opinions

ak240-does nothing wrong pretty neutral and dynamic for a dap (and guess what the new ak100 &120 II sound almost exactly the same<single ended>)

old ak100 &120 - yeah even without the mods sound slightly better???? they have more bottom end but overall not to far from the newer models

calyx M- its so warmmmmmm if I ever had frostbite in my inner ear I wouldn't reach for a hot pack I would put on some headphones and listen to the calyx.  If you like the warmth of the original lcds this is for you (thought it packs a lot of power so be carefull cus I don't think you'll have that much control of the loudness with iems.  I listen to the roxxanes and I prefer the 16s but they both have this well articulated bass that the calyx would ruin.

if you got cash and are to cool for school (don't care what others think) get a hifiman 901s a little to clean for me but with analog volume control and an amp specific for IEMs this is your best all in one solution.  Great sound stage and separation I could have used some more juice on the lower end but the roxxanes might not need it.  (the 901s is suppose to be the new model that keeps the sonics but fixes a lot of the dap specific issues.

if you don't mind a stack ....


TBC ..... my piccolo amp (never heard the leckertron and only have heard a head-fier give me a indirect comparison with the piccolo: leckerton vs vorzuge pure 2 Winner: vorzuge pure 2 <but warmer than leckerton> (other comparison) vorzuge pure 2 vs piccolo Winner: tie <but piccolo not that warm and when on sale  $560 vs $330>)  works pretty good with my ipod video so I am going to try to take LFFs advice and DYImod the thing to get better sound.
 

*obvious only thinking about sound here other things come into play.  I like a neutral sound sig as clear and dynamic as possible. YMMV
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: tomscy2000 on January 26, 2015, 04:42:15 AM
The Questyle QP1 and QP1 Pro are apparently slated to come out in the spring for $699 and $999 respectively, *sort of* reasonably priced in today's insane world of DAPs.

No Sabre, but a Cirrus, and the important thing is that they've stuck their current output mode amplification in the device, so at least it's not like every other device out there.

From everything I've seen about Questyle's engineering, it's at least got a solid foundation, and they have specific performance standards for themselves, at least for their desktop devices.

The chassis and assembly are supposed to be done by Foxconn in the same factory as the iPhone, so the DAP comes in the same space grey and champagne gold colors as well.

Of course, no one will know whether or not it'll actually turn out to be a good product, but at a glance, it looks promising.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: MisterRogers on January 26, 2015, 02:53:56 PM
Thought I'd chime in here - I've been using the Cowon Plenue 1 to drive my UERM's and I'm pretty pleased with it. It sells for about 1K, but I chose  it for the following:
* Burr-Browning PCM1792A
* 128Gig built in, expandable to > 128Gig via micro SD.
* Dedicated Linux based OS; good UI response, fast play response.

It has a nice analog sound without being warm. Drives the UERM's very well.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Rotijon on January 26, 2015, 04:18:32 PM
Thanks for the suggestions guys. Tbh im looking for something cheap.

Although a 901 is available for sale at my end for 700USD

Will need to sell off one of my earphones though, =(

Anyone interested in a six month old mint Se846 ? =D
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Marvey on January 26, 2015, 04:37:46 PM
I wasn't impressed with the HM901. Supposedly with balanced module, it's better. If I used IEMs a lot and cared a lot about SQ, I'd try to find a used AK120mki (Wolfson). The AK120mk2/AK240 were a step back in sound quality with the Cirrus D-A chips. The AK120mki recommendation for an all-in-one solution.


The DAC section on the Leckerton sucks compared to GO, but the Leckerton has better amp section. I'd pair them up (GO as DAC + Leckerton as amp). If you don't bind rubber-banding or velcroing those two together - that would be the way to go for great SQ at a really good price.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Za Warudo on January 26, 2015, 08:28:30 PM
For something cheap (and if you need a decent backup IEM) with a good UI go for the HM601LE + RE400 combo for $150.  Rockbox it, and it's a pretty nice device that can take cheap SD cards.  I liked it more than the X3, especially felt that the amp section was more spacious sounding, and the UI is far more responsive and less bug-prone.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Sorrodje on January 26, 2015, 09:40:14 PM
HM601.  had it.. No more than 24 hours before I put it for Sale . I hated the warmish muddy sound, the 10 Ohms Headphone output, the out of date user experience the plasticky enclosure.  I hated all.  walk the plank2
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Za Warudo on January 26, 2015, 11:13:13 PM
Warm? Yes, but that's a matter of preference just like with headphones and amps.  It's definitely not muddy though, unless maybe if you used some multi-BA iem with it, but you can use an external amp for those.  The UI is just fine once Rockbox'd.  And at $70 I can live with the plasticky build and limitations with BA iems.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on January 27, 2015, 05:48:10 AM
I wasn't impressed with the HM901. Supposedly with balanced module, it's better. If I used IEMs a lot and cared a lot about SQ, I'd try to find a used AK120mki (Wolfson). The AK120mk2/AK240 were a step back in sound quality with the Cirrus D-A chips. The AK120mki recommendation for an all-in-one solution.


The DAC section on the Leckerton sucks compared to GO, but the Leckerton has better amp section. I'd pair them up (GO as DAC + Leckerton as amp). If you don't bind rubber-banding or velcroing those two together - that would be the way to go for great SQ at a really good price.

let be clear the  hm901 is great for a dap best I heard (only heard the ak120 mkI once so maybe I needed more time with it) but as for sound you'd don't get much more than the GO + leckerton combo.

@marvey What IEMs did you use with the hm901?

I wouldn't recommend trying GO stack for a mobile set up.  the 450 gets hot and from what I hear the leckerton don't like cell phone signal (though I heard that a while back so anyone feel free to correct me) but if this is a laptop set up GO for it. :) 

 But the 450 still pulls juice like no other so should only be used with a large phone battery (if you dont mind paying a little more try the herus since it doesn't pull as much juice so it'd herus+ leckerton). honestly right now my best advise is to wait a bit, lot of new players coming out and guess what they all think the SABRE is the best chip in the world too!!! so you will get more selection (oh and a dacless leckerton is suppose to be coming) I'll list them if anyone ask.


....but if you can find a ak120 for less than $500 (better if Red wine mod <any mod for uerm listening>) go for that, but just to let you know people dont discount them that much despite the fact that now they have been in circulation for nearly 2 years.   
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on January 27, 2015, 05:51:18 AM
Warm? Yes, but that's a matter of preference just like with headphones and amps.  It's definitely not muddy though, unless maybe if you used some multi-BA iem with it, but you can use an external amp for those.  The UI is just fine once Rockbox'd.  And at $70 I can live with the plasticky build and limitations with BA iems.

got to agree with sorrodje had an hm601 and though you could amp it, the stack was impossible to use out and about. The ui was ok utilitarian nuff said.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: SomeSpace on January 27, 2015, 08:40:57 AM
For an all in one DAP experience I would go with AK240. For the best sounding DAP I would say an AK120 that has been moddwd by Red Wine or Pwaudio to have a pure line out and two WM8741s, then use a great amp such as Vorzuge Pure. I just got the Lotoo Paw Gold in but my listening time is to early so far.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Rotijon on January 27, 2015, 04:09:37 PM
Hmm id honestly jump for the leck and GO combo, but im looking for a stack with my phone. If only the dac in the leck was better.

what about the UHA 760? People seem to hate that one for some reason.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: burnspbesq on January 27, 2015, 04:50:48 PM
Don't spend any money on a standalone player until you have a chance to audition the Ayre player (aka Pono).

If you're looking for a DAC/amp to use with an iOS device, I've heard most of the contenders, and the one I still own is the Resonessence Herus.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Marvey on January 27, 2015, 05:14:57 PM
let be clear the  hm901 is great for a dap best I heard (only heard the ak120 mkI once so maybe I needed more time with it) but as for sound you'd don't get much more than the GO + leckerton combo.

@marvey What IEMs did you use with the hm901?

Don't remember, but it was two IEMs HFM brought along with them and my UERM. Thought the HM901 sounded veiled, soft, fuzzy, low-fi'ish. Think AM radio. Obviously not as bad as AM radio, but most people should get the idea. This was with the standard amp card. Just not my kind of sound. The UI was horribad too. Just an overall experience I would rather not remember.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: RexAeterna on January 27, 2015, 05:15:17 PM
Everyone knows that an obama safe link phone is best digital player ever. Makes all other daps overpriced pocket metal.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: aufmerksam on January 27, 2015, 07:30:35 PM
Everyone knows that an obama safe link phone is best digital player ever. Makes all other daps overpriced pocket metal.

Just further evidence of how Obama is in TracFone's pocket...

Has anyone (here) actually listened to / compared the Sony A17 to Pono, et al.? I sifted through the HF thread for a bit, but quickly got a headache. I also read what Stephen Rochlin (http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1214/Sony_NWZ_ZX1_NWZ_A17_Pono_Music_Player.htm) has to say, but that made HF feel like reasonable, straightforward dialog...

I know MF enjoyed the ZX1, and the F887 was supposed to be similar SQ with fewer options. I know Sony generally asserts the same about A17, but the proof is in the pudding.

If the the A17 SQ were up to snuff, it would be a desirable option. A17 has generally favorable response from what I have read, and ticks a lot of non-SQ boxes: microSD expandable, decent UI, small, line out and digital out options, less than a thousand dollars, etc.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: DrForBin on January 27, 2015, 07:46:27 PM
hello,

i, as well, would like some feed back on the Sony. if only to replace all the iPods i have.  :P
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: burnspbesq on January 28, 2015, 06:06:24 AM
Just further evidence of how Obama is in TracFone's pocket...

Has anyone (here) actually listened to / compared the Sony A17 to Pono, et al.? I sifted through the HF thread for a bit, but quickly got a headache. I also read what Stephen Rochlin (http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1214/Sony_NWZ_ZX1_NWZ_A17_Pono_Music_Player.htm) has to say, but that made HF feel like reasonable, straightforward dialog...

I know MF enjoyed the ZX1, and the F887 was supposed to be similar SQ with fewer options. I know Sony generally asserts the same about A17, but the proof is in the pudding.

If the the A17 SQ were up to snuff, it would be a desirable option. A17 has generally favorable response from what I have read, and ticks a lot of non-SQ boxes: microSD expandable, decent UI, small, line out and digital out options, less than a thousand dollars, etc.

Tell you what: I have an Ayre Player (I no longer refer to it as a Pono player, because in my head I have completely separated it from all of Neil Young's empire-building and hippie nostalgia).   Buy a A17 and fly out to SoCal, and we'll have a shootout.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Solderdude on January 28, 2015, 07:23:44 AM
This guy says Pono is better than A17
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1214/Sony_NWZ_ZX1_NWZ_A17_Pono_Music_Player.htm

I couldn't care less and like my cheap X3 with 3.3FW anyway.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: thune on January 28, 2015, 08:10:56 AM
Wow. I attempted to skim that one. Epically bad review. Exchange rates, robot dogs, stock price, and rootkits in a "head-to-head shootout"?  I guess I've been fortunate enough to avoid Rochlin up to this point.  poo
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: zerodeefex on January 28, 2015, 03:06:46 PM
A17 alone isn't the best sound in the portable space but darn if it isn't portable. It also has a phenomenal UI and great battery life. If I'm hankering for better, I strap the Leck onto it and it is a big step up.

For on the go listening with my UERMs, I'm a fan. I've been on the upgrade wagon too much to really want to move to anything else until the Geek Waves start shipping.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: aufmerksam on January 28, 2015, 05:34:44 PM
This guy says Pono is better than A17
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1214/Sony_NWZ_ZX1_NWZ_A17_Pono_Music_Player.htm

I couldn't care less and like my cheap X3 with 3.3FW anyway.
Wow. I attempted to skim that one. Epically bad review. Exchange rates, robot dogs, stock price, and rootkits in a "head-to-head shootout"?  I guess I've been fortunate enough to avoid Rochlin up to this point.  poo

Yeah, that was the embedded link in my earlier post. That guy is ... manic. His priorities and criteria for comparison were distracting to the point of making me question whether his opinion carried any reliance. He says "the a17 is an overachiever" and generally sounds very good, with great battery life, and great ui, but it can't drive Audeze planars, and compared to the pono [insert car analogy].

A17 alone isn't the best sound in the portable space but darn if it isn't portable. It also has a phenomenal UI and great battery life. If I'm hankering for better, I strap the Leck onto it and it is a big step up.

For on the go listening with my UERMs, I'm a fan. I've been on the upgrade wagon too much to really want to move to anything else until the Geek Waves start shipping.

Thanks zero, this is exactly what I am contemplating. I have UERM on the way, and I am done with being incrementally irritated with the apple experience.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: zerodeefex on January 28, 2015, 06:02:07 PM
Thanks zero, this is exactly what I am contemplating. I have UERM on the way, and I am done with being incrementally irritated with the apple experience.

Well, the A17 is a stopgap for me. I actually wish I had kept the AK120 since the pairing with UERM was awesome.

I'm also interested in the Plenue 1, but I don't have the funds to be buying that + Yggy + everything else I want :)
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: HideousPride on January 28, 2015, 10:18:02 PM
My first DAP ever was a Cowon J3 which I really enjoyed, so I'm interested in the Plenue 1. Detailed impressions would be awesome.  :)p2



Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: MisterRogers on January 29, 2015, 02:06:05 AM
I'll work on doing that guys.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Kunlun on January 29, 2015, 03:16:11 AM
Yeah, definitely want to hear more on the plenue 1. The AK120ii was nice enough but underpowered and overpriced. I decided to go for a geek wave 128xd, but if that bombs (and I think the UI will make or break it--nothing like a rushed job on that *cough*A&K*cough*), it'd be nice to know there's an alternative.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: MisterRogers on January 29, 2015, 03:08:32 PM
I have a Wave ordered too. I grabbed the Plenue as I have low confidence they'll a) get it done anywhere close to on time, b) Get the UI right, c) quite pummeling me with 'new' and 'must have' features. The wave is my first crowd fund, and I've come to hate it. Flame off. If the Wave drops and it's great.... great.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on January 29, 2015, 07:21:06 PM
My first DAP ever was a Cowon J3 which I really enjoyed ...

Actually, my first post-minidisc digital player was the Cowon A2, and it has still been in use until very recently. After more than ten years, its battery still works, even though it is only dusted down, these days, for trains and planes once or twice a year.

I look at stuff like A&K and just gawk at the prices, but actually, back in 2002 or 2003, the Cowon was expensive enough to shock. 
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Rotijon on February 01, 2015, 02:39:55 PM
The C5D is surprisingly acceptable, having said that, i have not heard the GO450 or leck.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: burnspbesq on February 01, 2015, 10:59:32 PM
If you haven't heard the Ayre (aka Pono) Player in balanced mode, you haven't heard everything it can do.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on February 01, 2015, 11:55:36 PM
Cow on always struck me like iBasso. Decent but nothing special. Parsing Gutty's Plenue impressions don't encourage me tbh.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: aufmerksam on February 05, 2015, 10:04:10 PM
I got the A17 the other day, and so far this thing is quite impressive. The greatness of the UI cannot be overstated. Actually, same goes for battery life and storage capacity. I need to do some focused comparisons, but so far the sound is quite competent. I need to fully get plugged into what the UERM is capable of on numerous rigs before I can pass judgment on the A17 as a standalone DAP.

On the question of "best audio quality" I go back and forth between the value of a standalone DAP like AK variety, which arguably do not require external amp, and something like the sony, which will cleanly feed a portable amp of choice, allowing greater flexibility in terms of headphone pairing. Does that make sense? For example, if I know how well the Leckerton will drive UERM, and simply need a portable source for the Leckerton, I am not going to cough up ~$1000 for an AK. I know the arguments go both ways, especially if you are only listening to one set of headphones when portable, just saying it bears contemplation.

...

I can't resist professing my love for my first, and long lost, DAP: the Rio Karma. That thing was amazing. In addition to having a billion user options (including accommodation for a lefty like me), it came with a docking station WITH AN ETHERNET JACK. Sigh. Some cousin has it somewhere, if I ever get it back, I am replacing the battery and modding in a flash drive.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: gelocks on February 06, 2015, 03:15:20 AM
I've been surprised with the A17!!
So light and REALLY portable, good sounding, EXCELLENT UI, GREAT battery life.
Does it sound "better" than my ZX1, AK 100MK2 or even the FiiO X5? Ermm no, not really, it's a bit "soft" up-top, it sounds as if the top end is a bit boosted, etc. but does it kill in mostly all other categories already mentioned? I would say yes and I will be selling my other DAPs. It's that good (for me!!)
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: zerodeefex on February 06, 2015, 03:22:26 AM
It sounds meh. I like it due to form factor/usability, but I'm going to strap one of the new leckerton amps on there when they hit. I am using it with the MK2 right now and it's just ever slightly bigger than what I consider acceptable. I've tried it with the E11k and I'm willing to go a little bigger to get closer to A17/leck sound.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: aufmerksam on February 06, 2015, 02:32:19 PM
Was the e11k any good at all for improving a17 sound?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: zerodeefex on February 06, 2015, 04:56:42 PM
It is a slight improvement, but not really worthwhile.

Amp only leck or bust.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on February 07, 2015, 01:54:18 AM
I've been surprised with the A17!!
So light and REALLY portable, good sounding, EXCELLENT UI, GREAT battery life.
Does it sound "better" than my ZX1, AK 100MK2 or even the FiiO X5? Ermm no, not really, it's a bit "soft" up-top, it sounds as if the top end is a bit boosted, etc. but does it kill in mostly all other categories already mentioned? I would say yes and I will be selling my other DAPs. It's that good (for me!!)


That's close to my hearing of the 17 too. Top tilt making it more analytical than typical Sony warmth with notable unrefined grain compared to my rig. Not unusual at the price point these days.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on February 13, 2015, 09:08:31 PM
I've been surprised with the A17!!
So light and REALLY portable, good sounding, EXCELLENT UI, GREAT battery life.
Does it sound "better" than my ZX1, AK 100MK2 or even the FiiO X5? Ermm no, not really, it's a bit "soft" up-top, it sounds as if the top end is a bit boosted, etc. but does it kill in mostly all other categories already mentioned? I would say yes and I will be selling my other DAPs. It's that good (for me!!)


To me this is an odd comment because the only reason to add another device to the list things you have to carry it should do its job well.  It shouldn't do everything else good but it's main reason just ok.  In that case why carry it
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: acain on February 21, 2015, 10:19:00 PM
I just picked up the Ak100ii with the AKR01 iem and a 128g micro sd card for REALLY cheap. Any thoughts on the AK100ii I bought this and never demoed one before. My portable unit right now is the Fiio X1.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on February 21, 2015, 10:31:27 PM
I've compared the ak100ii with it's more expensive brothers and lf they are better then it is beyond the power of the UERMs to tell them apart.  The UI is nice but the hm901 is still slightly better. Still probably the best dap of the current crop when comparing value and sound, unless you want to stack.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: zerodeefex on March 03, 2015, 06:28:49 PM
I have a Wave ordered too. I grabbed the Plenue as I have low confidence they'll a) get it done anywhere close to on time, b) Get the UI right, c) quite pummeling me with 'new' and 'must have' features. The wave is my first crowd fund, and I've come to hate it. Flame off. If the Wave drops and it's great.... great.

Followed this path. The Plenue is definitely better than my previous AK120 gen 1 which I prefer to the gen 2 players. Haven't spent any time with the AK240 to compare that either. It's not the Geek Out 450 > Leckerton, but the sense of space is really pretty awesome. It's not as wide as some players, but it's good. Instrument separation is good as well but it feels a little too smooth. It edges on a little warm which is actually a good pairing with the UERM. I like it better than the Fulla but less than the geek out 450 > Leck stack. Not bad for on the go, though.

(http://i.imgur.com/ysYq0Y3l.jpg)
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: HideousPride on March 03, 2015, 07:37:11 PM
Followed this path. The Plenue is definitely better than my previous AK120 gen 1 which I prefer to the gen 2 players. Haven't spent any time with the AK240 to compare that either. It's not the Geek Out 450 > Leckerton, but the sense of space is really pretty awesome. It's not as wide as some players, but it's good. Instrument separation is good as well but it feels a little too smooth. It edges on a little warm which is actually a good pairing with the UERM. I like it better than the Fulla but less than the geek out 450 > Leck stack. Not bad for on the go, though.

Thanks for the impressions, that actually sounds quite promising. Looks like a sleek and easy to carry around package. Thoughts on the UI and overall function?

I have a Cayin Spark N6 due at the office in ~15 days. Not sure what to expect but optimistic.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: zerodeefex on March 03, 2015, 07:44:24 PM
You're in PA? We should meet up and compare the two, haha.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: MisterRogers on March 03, 2015, 09:58:39 PM
Your impressions match mine; overall good detail & imaging; a tad smooth and warm. It really is a pretty good pairing with UERM's.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: zerodeefex on March 03, 2015, 10:45:35 PM
Your impressions match mine; overall good detail & imaging; a tad smooth and warm. It really is a pretty good pairing with UERM's.

The stage never feels artificial. I've heard wider presentations, but this player puts forth a very, very coherent image with the UERMs. I am really enjoying it! Especially good at low level night listening.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: SoupRKnowva on March 04, 2015, 12:09:25 PM
I wasn't impressed with the HM901. Supposedly with balanced module, it's better. If I used IEMs a lot and cared a lot about SQ, I'd try to find a used AK120mki (Wolfson). The AK120mk2/AK240 were a step back in sound quality with the Cirrus D-A chips. The AK120mki recommendation for an all-in-one solution.


The DAC section on the Leckerton sucks compared to GO, but the Leckerton has better amp section. I'd pair them up (GO as DAC + Leckerton as amp). If you don't bind rubber-banding or velcroing those two together - that would be the way to go for great SQ at a really good price.

As a DAC only how does the ak120mki compare to the GO450?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: CEE TEE on March 04, 2015, 11:52:55 PM
Heard zerodeefex's Plenue 1 and it is really nice with UERM.  My iPhone 4S > Leck is a bit more punchy and separated (first Gen AK120 sounded very similar to me), but the Plenue is a sweet/cohesive stage without any fatigue-inducing qualities...while still retaining great tonality and a character that is easy to listen to.  I need more time to see if the "blended whole" had enough resolving power to image physicality of individual voices (instruments, etc.) but it seemed like an "equal but different" type of rig that felt solid and well-built.  A great all-in-one that will be something I look at if the Geek Wave doesn't fit the bill SQ-wise (and I should have two versions coming).  Expandable memory and drag/drop onto the Plenue will be totally appreciated as the iDevices drive my CRAZY in that regard.  Great to have options popping up.  headbang
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Bill-p on March 05, 2015, 05:17:35 AM
Oh, it's pretty interesting that you'd think the AK120 sounds similar to GO450 + Leck.

I've been thinking about grabbing it to replace my iPod Nano (you know. :P), and also because it can be used as a USB/optical DAC that's also quite capable. Would make for a nice portable/transportable setup IMO.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on March 05, 2015, 05:26:32 AM
Oh, it's pretty interesting that you'd think the AK120 sounds similar to GO450 + Leck.

I've been thinking about grabbing it to replace my iPod Nano (you know. :P), and also because it can be used as a USB/optical DAC that's also quite capable. Would make for a nice portable/transportable setup IMO.

Don't think that's what he said. He said Iphone 4S > Leck

GO450>Leck rapes the AK120.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Bill-p on March 05, 2015, 05:35:08 AM
Oh yeah... read that again and realized I was just being a potato.

Thanks, Anax.

Tempted to pick up a Geek Out 450 and use it as a portable-ish DAC solution for now. I searched up and down the market, and essentially, nothing gets remotely in the same ballpark in terms of sound quality within the same constraints (enclosure, price bracket, etc...). In fact, not a lot of portable DACs can get close either. Even considering DAC/amp combos.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: zerodeefex on March 05, 2015, 05:51:01 AM
GO 450 > leck stomps the P1 which stomps the AK120 Mk1 which stomps the AK120 mk2. Need to hear ak120 vs fulla to decide where it falls. The plenue is reasonably detailed, but I'm hesitant to recommend it at $1000.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on March 05, 2015, 06:05:40 AM
Would the rwak 120-s + leckerton change the ranking?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on March 05, 2015, 06:14:03 AM
Would the rwak 120-s + leckerton change the ranking?

Nope. Btw, we are talking the first version 120 mk1, the current revamped 120 is quite inferior to the older one. Get's closer to Sansa Clip+ sound.

120mk1 > Fulla. 120mk2 better at some things than Fulla but it really starts to sound like a sidegrade options (unrefined/lean versus smooth/ballsy). Fulla is warmth and cheap done right. Fulla has some space and decent dynamics, just short of absolute resolution and clarity. I think Fulla will drive some headphones better than the GO450 and definitely the Pono SE though. It's got power.

This is all without consideration of features, convenience and compatability which are all dependent on the end user in question.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: kaiser1121 on March 05, 2015, 07:05:13 AM
I order the zx2; I know I am taking a chance on the sound since I hadn't heard it yet.  But there is a lot of thing it look right compare to the current totl dap like the ui, battery life, form factor. 
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on March 05, 2015, 06:54:44 PM
ZX2 doesn't sound bad. It's $$ though. Sony is the way to go if you want refined build quality and UI.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: acain on March 07, 2015, 07:26:36 PM
I was interested in the ZX2 but got a great deal on the AK100ii and a pair of AKR01 iem's. I was currently using the Fiio X1 and I have to say the AK100ii is more detailed, but I didn't feel that it is $850 better then the Fiio X1 in terms of sound. Does any one else feel the same way about higher end DAP's. The build and UI is way better then the Fiio but I really was disappointed with the sound, I was expected to be blown away. I also had the chance to listen to the AK240 and AK120ii and felt the same way.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Hawaiiancerveza on May 07, 2015, 09:30:54 AM
Anyone planning on preordering the Questyle QP1 or QP1R?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: x838nwy on May 07, 2015, 10:21:00 AM
Anyone planning on preordering the Questyle QP1 or QP1R?

Looked into it and emailed Questyle about it but at the end of the day, if I cannot have an opportunity to play with it before I decide, I won't pull the trigger. Life's too short for crap UI.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 07, 2015, 04:05:29 PM
I was interested in the ZX2 but got a great deal on the AK100ii and a pair of AKR01 iem's. I was currently using the Fiio X1 and I have to say the AK100ii is more detailed, but I didn't feel that it is $850 better then the Fiio X1 in terms of sound. Does any one else feel the same way about higher end DAP's. The build and UI is way better then the Fiio but I really was disappointed with the sound, I was expected to be blown away. I also had the chance to listen to the AK240 and AK120ii and felt the same way.

For the most part. Especially AK DAPs. Very little price/performance benefit it any depending on what you are comparing. I find iBasso also mediocre and they started the high priced DAP gig. There's a lot of mediocre overpriced stuff out there these days.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Hawaiiancerveza on May 07, 2015, 06:19:31 PM
Hey Anax, how'd you like the UI on the QP1?  I don't recall if you mentioned anything of it. 
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Colgin on May 07, 2015, 06:48:25 PM
For the most part. Especially AK DAPs. Very little price/performance benefit it any depending on what you are comparing. I find iBasso also mediocre and they started the high priced DAP gig. There's a lot of mediocre overpriced stuff out there these days.


Stereo Exchange in NYC is having an event tonight with A&K showing off its latest DAPs. I am going to try to get there if I can but I was frankly pretty underwhelmed with the AK240 the couple of times I heard it.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 07, 2015, 08:27:30 PM
Hey Anax, how'd you like the UI on the QP1?  I don't recall if you mentioned anything of it. 

I had no issues with it. I think someone mentioned there might be a playlist issue depending on how the list was built. I'm pretty used to crappy Chinese interfaces and never have problems with bad UI. That said, I thought the QP1 had an easier and more intuitive/slicker UI than the Calyx and perhaps even the Pono from what I can recall. So I don't think people will have too many issues with it.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: mosshorn on May 07, 2015, 09:13:29 PM
DAPs are annoying right now. I'm waiting on my UERMs to come in, and can't decide what to pair them with. The DX90 has a lot of potential, but I've only experienced a couple Sabre implementations. The bright, clinical sound I've been hearing about seems like it would mate bad with them. I wish I liked the Fiio X5 but I wasn't the biggest fan of its presentation. I've also been looking at unconventional pairings like Sony A15+C5D or A15+Micro iDSD for when I'll be more transportable.

Ah how I miss the simplicity of Ipod+C421 stacks. Any help on what I should get?


Also, long time lurker, first time poster ;)
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Hawaiiancerveza on May 07, 2015, 10:14:43 PM
I had no issues with it. I think someone mentioned there might be a playlist issue depending on how the list was built. I'm pretty used to crappy Chinese interfaces and never have problems with bad UI. That said, I thought the QP1 had an easier and more intuitive/slicker UI than the Calyx and perhaps even the Pono from what I can recall. So I don't think people will have too many issues with it.

Thanks.  I'm thinking of getting it since I don't use my desktop rig (GO450>Lec) so I figure sell them and just use the portable stuff. 
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Greed on May 07, 2015, 10:50:45 PM
DAPs are annoying right now. I'm waiting on my UERMs to come in, and can't decide what to pair them with. The DX90 has a lot of potential, but I've only experienced a couple Sabre implementations. The bright, clinical sound I've been hearing about seems like it would mate bad with them. I wish I liked the Fiio X5 but I wasn't the biggest fan of its presentation. I've also been looking at unconventional pairings like Sony A15+C5D or A15+Micro iDSD for when I'll be more transportable.

Ah how I miss the simplicity of Ipod+C421 stacks. Any help on what I should get?


Also, long time lurker, first time poster ;)

Best pairing with my UERM thus far in a stand-alone package has been the Cowon Plenue 1. Very good UI and battery life, with above average sonics. I'd say it is easily worth what I sold mine for ($750).
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: MisterRogers on May 07, 2015, 11:15:39 PM
^ 1+

I've had a lot more time with mine over the past few months; great sonics, synergy. Quite happy with the pairing.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: songmic on May 08, 2015, 05:15:39 AM
I see that the Geek Out > Leckerton is praised here as one of the best portable setups, but for the sake of convenience, I would really like a dedicated all-in-one-box DAP. That's the title of this thread right? I don't have a lot of experience with high-end DAP's, and like many fellow pyrates here, I found most Astell&Kern stuff overpriced for their performance and didn't like their sonic signature either. I prefer a slightly warm DAP, since my JH13 Pro is already a tad bright in my opinion. Then again, I don't want a warm-but-veiled sound, if you know what I mean.

I hate to use the term "general consensus", but the truth is that general consensus exists here at Changstar too. Certain gears like Yggy, Rag, ECBA, and 445 seemed to have achieved something of a godhood status. That being said, what are some of the all-in-one-box portable DAP's that are almost universally praised, like how GO>Leck receives a lot of praise? After being greatly disappointed by AK240, I'm currently thinking of Calyx M, Plenue 1 and QP1 Pro. Of course you're welcome to offer other suggestions. Thanks.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 08, 2015, 05:24:16 AM
Calyx M is certainly warm.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Greed on May 08, 2015, 05:39:31 AM
Not enough portable die-hards here to have "general consensus". From what I can tell most of us are okay with transportable setups atop a desk, etc. That said, there is a lot of crap in portable audio, specifically most DAPs. iBasso, AK, HFM.. all are pretty garbage or have a low price/performance ratio.

From my experience the best DAPs (meaning all in one packages) in each price range:
$0-250: FiiO X5
$250-350: Sony F887
$400-600: Sony ZX1
$700+: Cowon P1 (recently replaced the AK120 which is okay but not worth the price)

There are few new models that I have yet to hear that could be interesting: Cowon Plenue M, Sony ZX2, Questyle QP1, FiiO X7
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Armaegis on May 08, 2015, 05:43:53 AM
Isn't the FiiO X5 $350?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Greed on May 08, 2015, 05:51:51 AM
Can easily be found for $200 used, possibly $250 if extras are included. But yes, for the new price I'd rather get something else.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Griffon on May 08, 2015, 06:35:19 AM
Portable is not the ultimate solution, but for a small group of people portable stuff is really important. Today I sent the Angies for repair and forgot to bring another backup pair, and the whole day was like lost to me.

I don't have any experience with AK products so I'm not commenting on those, but I generally agree with Greed's list. I'll add Sony A17 to the sub 300 list for the UI, battery life and a relatively negotiated sound. I'll add Calyx M to the 700+ list if one doesn't care about the 5-hour battery run and the somewhat confusing UI. Sounds very good to me.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: gelocks on May 08, 2015, 02:33:26 PM
Portable is not the ultimate solution, but for a small group of people portable stuff is really important. Today I sent the Angies for repair and forgot to bring another backup pair, and the whole day was like lost to me.

I don't have any experience with AK products so I'm not commenting on those, but I generally agree with Greed's list. I'll add Sony A17 to the sub 300 list for the UI, battery life and a relatively negotiated sound. I'll add Calyx M to the 700+ list if one doesn't care about the 5-hour battery run and the somewhat confusing UI. Sounds very good to me.

Yeah, I have to go with the A17 as well. I already posted my views on it somewhere else (maybe the Pyrate leaderboard thread!?) but as an owner of FiiO and AK products, I'd still choose the A17 over them based on overall performance (sound, battery life, UI, features, "real" portability, etc.)
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: OJneg on May 08, 2015, 03:10:20 PM
Not enough portable die-hards here to have "general consensus". From what I can tell most of us are okay with transportable setups atop a desk, etc. That said, there is a lot of crap in portable audio, specifically most DAPs. iBasso, AK, HFM.. all are pretty garbage or have a low price/performance ratio.

From my experience the best DAPs (meaning all in one packages) in each price range:
$0-250: FiiO X5
$250-350: Sony F887
$400-600: Sony ZX1
$700+: Cowon P1 (recently replaced the AK120 which is okay but not worth the price)

There are few new models that I have yet to hear that could be interesting: Cowon Plenue M, Sony ZX2, Questyle QP1, FiiO X7


Thanks for this
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: x838nwy on May 10, 2015, 03:51:24 AM
I heard there's gonna be a new (and even more expensive) AK in Munich. The AK380.
I literally lol'ed at the news. May be they can launch it in a scratch-tastic aluminum chassis with supersharp corners (which will be dinged in no time or scratch your other stuff to $hit) then a year later sell a more expensive version in steel. And i'm prety sure we'll be getting the ak240mkII soon.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on May 10, 2015, 04:50:50 AM
Bull shit it can't get more expensive what are they going to add?  As it is they are scrapping the audiophile term bin.  Don't get me wrong I like the ak240 and if it was a $1000 cheaper than the street price ($2000) I wouldn't mind considering it. As a convince device, since most stacks that beat it go pretty close to that price and would have you be arrested as a pediphile if you walked by a playground
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Griffon on May 10, 2015, 05:22:23 AM
Take a look at the headphone industry today and it's pretty easy to see about 90% of advertising & marketing are just a "World Expo" of buzzwords and hollow claims: "DSD", "32/384", "next generation", "hirez", etc etc. Then they just raise the price again and again, without really meaningful changes.

Now I haven't heard AK240, but my (short) experience with AK100 II and the original AK120 was at best lukewarm. I always think of portable solution in general as a compromise. At $1000+ in absolute sound quality department the edge return from portable stuff is far lower than that of desktop rigs (and at this price point the edge return of desktop rigs is already pretty low). Plus it's always the transducer - the cans and IEMs - that are making the biggest difference in sound. At most in terms of a single DAP, I guess the AK Jr or Sony ZX1 are the upper limit of a meaningful purchase.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on May 11, 2015, 02:06:25 AM
how's the sound out of the sony?  is it better than out of an iphone? 
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 11, 2015, 02:42:51 AM
how's the sound out of the sony?  is it better than out of an iphone? 

K, the Sony's aren't my idea of reference quality but yes they are better than an iphone.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Griffon on May 11, 2015, 03:02:11 AM
how's the sound out of the sony?  is it better than out of an iphone? 

To answer your question, as Anax has said, the Sony isn't a reference thing to me as well, and is indeed better than an iPhone. If you want I can do some quick A/B (I've got both) and make a short impression. But how much the difference is... YMMV.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: wnmnkh on May 11, 2015, 03:15:47 AM
No offense, pretty much all of so-called audiophile DAPs are terrible for the price they are asking.... and I have very hard time why people want such a good sound quality form a DAP in the first place, really.

I mean... It is being used on outside which inevitably degrades listening condition, and with limitation by being battery-powered, there is a clear limit on physical aspects of the player. These are some of the reasons I have little interest in audiophile DAPs.

One thing I noticed is that other than Sony ones, the battery life of these audiophile DAPs are downright terrible. UI is nearly un-usable at best, disaster at worst. Many of them are also bulky and heavy too.

If I were to buy, I'd rather look for Cowon/iriver's non-audiophile series DAPs, Sony's new A-series walkman or Sandisk Sansas.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 11, 2015, 03:33:49 AM
I mean... It is being used on outside which inevitably degrades listening condition,

I find this a philosophy something of a red herring, even a myth. I can sit on an airplane or ride the subway with my reference rig and have better reference high fidelity sound than what most people are using as their reference desktop headphone rigs sitting in a <30dB room. I freaking guarantee it.

The only time I find myself adequate with my back up IEMs and a Sansa Clip is when I go to a concert and I need to compensate for 120dB of bad music just in case. So if you listen at a level perhaps >40dB lower than your ambient noise, I would buy that arguement. IEMs still attenuate around -25dB give or take.

Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Griffon on May 11, 2015, 03:44:08 AM
No offense, pretty much all of so-called audiophile DAPs are terrible for the price they are asking.... and I have very hard time why people want such a good sound quality form a DAP in the first place, really.

I mean... It is being used on outside which inevitably degrades listening condition, and with limitation by being battery-powered, there is a clear limit on physical aspects of the player. These are some of the reasons I have little interest in audiophile DAPs.

One thing I noticed is that other than Sony ones, the battery life of these audiophile DAPs are downright terrible. UI is nearly un-usable at best, disaster at worst. Many of them are also bulky and heavy too.

If I were to buy, I'd rather look for Cowon/iriver's non-audiophile series DAPs, Sony's new A-series walkman or Sandisk Sansas.

Put into mind that in the mind set of Sony and iRiver (it's ultimately Korean), their primary market(s) are the Asian market. Which means a lot of public transit. Imagine the Tokyo or Shanghai subway system. Plus their culture of encouraging working until late - all of which contribute to a rather huge portable demand that is hard to imagine in North America. To borrow your words, most NA public transit system are nearly un-usable at best, disaster at worst. Also the Asian audiophile culture in general is rather different than NA one. Voodoo and luxury advertising are quite useful there. A few days ago I went to Yahoo.jp and saw their advertising of "better than CD, Hi-Res" stuff. I'd wager the majority of Sony/iRiver high end DAP sales are from Asia.

In NA what you said mostly makes sense. But there is still a minority here - just like me. On an average working day I spend three hours on public transit and foot. Which means I get one to two hours of head time out of the three. Then when I get home, I don't want to listen anymore. In this scenario, what I want naturally is to maximize the quality of my portable gear, at a minimum package. There you go.

On a side note: the new A-series Sony has an output Z of 3.x ohm. Not the best if you have some wonky multi-BA IEMs.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on May 11, 2015, 04:39:43 AM
To answer your question, as Anax has said, the Sony isn't a reference thing to me as well, and is indeed better than an iPhone. If you want I can do some quick A/B (I've got both) and make a short impression. But how much the difference is... YMMV.

no its ok, I was just currious. 

@wnmnkh

the price thing is relative.  usually portable stacks add up in cost.  Usually they pass the cost of daps when you factor in the cost of the source, usually a phone or something.  And you don't exclusively use daps when walking but more so when you don't carry around a bunch of stuff.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: altrunox on May 11, 2015, 05:27:37 AM
Well, am I the only one who like to listen to music with everything on the room turned off?
My audio setup is super budget ... when I arrive home I really love to turn off everything on my bedroom, close the door and the window and then listen to some music lying on my bed in a total dark room  :))

I would love to have a hi-end setup that can work as simple as possible, something like the Ether (that some folks said that are easy to power) and a nice hi-end dap, like the QP1.
BTW, I far away from a "true audiophile"  :)p5
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: x838nwy on May 11, 2015, 10:38:09 AM
jesus, looks like this 380 thing is for real...
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: songmic on May 11, 2015, 05:03:51 PM
Yep, the 380 is real.

Does anyone here have any impressions to share regarding the upcoming QP1 and QP1R? Right now I'm torn between Calyx M, Cowon Plenue 1 and QP1/R.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on May 11, 2015, 05:36:49 PM
What 360 thing?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: x838nwy on May 11, 2015, 05:52:14 PM
What 360 thing?

The ak380. A DAP so expensive that folks on head-di will immediately pair it with a hugo then a bakoon portable.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 11, 2015, 06:00:40 PM
Yep, the 380 is real.

Does anyone here have any impressions to share regarding the upcoming QP1 and QP1R? Right now I'm torn between Calyx M, Cowon Plenue 1 and QP1/R.

QP1 was better than the Calyx M with most of the technicalities you would listen for. I only recommend the Calyx M for those looking for a smoother and warmer signature as a priority above all else. M also has a higher output impedance I believe than the QP1. The QP1 was the closest DAP I've heard yet to my reference transportable rig. I'm hoping the R offers a notable improvement still.

I haven't heard the Plenue.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Armaegis on May 11, 2015, 07:56:50 PM
The ak380. A DAP so expensive that folks on head-di will immediately pair it with a hugo then a bakoon portable.
Something like 3.5k right?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on May 12, 2015, 02:23:56 AM
Oh crap it does exist  :-DD

Be honest who is buying one?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Griffon on May 12, 2015, 02:59:03 AM
Be honest who is buying one?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sH8sSKwS_gU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: OJneg on May 12, 2015, 04:04:33 AM
So it sounds like the consensus is that the Sansa Clip+ delivers an acceptable level of SQ for the price ($50). Can anyone recommend a $100-300 option that could be considered an upgrade to it? Greed mentioned the X5 but I'm wary of their gear due past negative experiences. Do the cheaper FiiOs or Sonys compete? Anything else?

On that note, does anyone have an extra Clip they would want to sell me?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: OJneg on May 12, 2015, 04:09:07 AM
(click to show/hide)

This is actually footage from the UCI parking lot
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Griffon on May 12, 2015, 04:13:41 AM
This is actually footage from the UCI parking lot

Interesting to know it.

Haven't heard the Sansas but to my ears Sony A17 does a pretty good job at around $200 price point (used). Battery life is almost week-long, strong UI, has a micro sd slot.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on May 12, 2015, 04:15:34 AM
hey I'm in the video!!!

yeah right I wish I had 1/32 of that cash (thats already to much), Yay!!!! communism.


-on the subject there are many places where the ak could still upgrade the sound quality. Also has anyone heard the portable bakoon?  I read a good review of it on headphonia, but my fanboyism tells me that the cavalli portable is better.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 12, 2015, 05:57:09 AM
I think the A17 is too bright/analytical for OJ.

OJ, I still have my old clip around, remind me and I'll dig it out for you to checkout. Honestly, I think you cheapo Chinese Massdrop thingy did quite a few things better but the Sansa is smaller and has a UI.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: x838nwy on May 12, 2015, 06:06:27 AM
Something like 3.5k right?

Can't say, but seeing that the 240SS is about 3k, it wouldn't surprise me to see this thing going for 4 or above.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: OJneg on May 12, 2015, 06:51:28 AM
I heard the A17 had a prominent low-level hiss which would probably bug the hell out of me.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 12, 2015, 06:59:32 AM
I heard the A17 had a prominent low-level hiss which would probably bug the hell out of me.

I thought you heard it already?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: OJneg on May 12, 2015, 07:31:34 AM
I thought you heard it already?

Not the A17...the other more expensive one I think?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Sorrodje on May 12, 2015, 08:59:17 AM
I own the Sony F886 and the Hiss (plus some very slight pops and clics) is really really small. nothing bothersome even for me although I really hate background noise in my music. 

Dunno for the the A17 though .

Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Griffon on May 12, 2015, 06:44:28 PM
My experience with A17's hiss: the noise was probably around -55db region.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: burnspbesq on May 12, 2015, 07:09:05 PM
"warmth forceful voice performance?"

Even given that the person who wrote that little gem is probably not a native speaker of English, that is downright scary. Doesn't give me any compelling reason to audition the QP-1. I'll stick with my Porno Player, TYVM.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: OJneg on May 12, 2015, 07:15:48 PM
Maybe I should get a Pono  :&

Funny how Anax is the only one who says things might be too analytical for me. More telling about his preferences  ;)
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 12, 2015, 08:31:17 PM
Yes I tend to prefer the sound of music. Not the sound of metallic robots humping in the sand or greased up sows wallowing in their own slop.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Hawaiiancerveza on May 12, 2015, 10:51:22 PM
Theres some updated info on questyles site. 

http://en.questyleaudio.com/product-qp1

Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: wnmnkh on May 14, 2015, 12:25:22 PM
It seems AK380 is using dual AKM AK4490 chips. No more Cirrus Logic chips.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on May 14, 2015, 03:09:43 PM
They also are using a custom external amp, I wonder what sound Sig they are goings for.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: x838nwy on May 16, 2015, 05:50:44 AM
They also are using a custom external amp, I wonder what sound Sig they are goings for.

I believe they're saying 3,499 for the dap. No word yet on external amp and accessoreies.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Jeff Y on May 16, 2015, 11:45:01 AM
I believe they're saying 3,499 for the dap. No word yet on external amp and accessoreies.
From what I am aware of, the amp is like a charging station/stationary amp.
The amp should be priced around $700 (that's what people are saying on HF and at other places).
I personally think that, no matter what the sound quality, the AK240 should be $1500 and AK380 be $2500 with the charging station/amp included.
Hope this helps :)
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: x838nwy on May 16, 2015, 02:34:08 PM
From what I am aware of, the amp is like a charging station/stationary amp.
The amp should be priced around $700 (that's what people are saying on HF and at other places).
I personally think that, no matter what the sound quality, the AK240 should be $1500 and AK380 be $2500 with the charging station/amp included.
Hope this helps :)

From my local dealer, you can buy the ak380 itself. Then there's the external (but also portable) amp which connects to the ak380 like a "glove" type thing. Another thing is a dock which does usb connection and xlr connections. Then there's a CD drive which is probably a transport or for ripping or something. At least that's what I've been told.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: zerodeefex on May 16, 2015, 02:55:14 PM
I just threw up in my mouth a little. FOR THE LOW LOW PRICE OF THE YGGDRASIL + RAGNAROK, YOU CAN GET AN OKAY PORTABLE PLAYER PLUS AMP EXPERIENCE!
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on May 16, 2015, 04:18:06 PM
zero if it sounded anywhere remotely close to the yggy + rag stack I wouldn't hesitate but you know how this is gonna turn out.  As it is people that own the ak240SS say that it ties with the  hm901 for sound quality and pulls ahead everywhere else (not worth the $2000 mark up for me but to each there own). 


if a dap could drive the slants with authority (best setup I heard so far for the slants is the bricast m1+liquid glass, never had a chance to try the rag+yggy with slants) I would pay $2000 but I don't think its possible.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: songmic on May 16, 2015, 04:23:11 PM
Sony NW-ZX2 claims its capable of wifi. Does it mean that I could listen to, say, YouTube music videos or online streaming music through the NW-ZX2 in a wifi zone? If so, that would be great.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: x838nwy on May 16, 2015, 05:00:32 PM
Sony NW-ZX2 claims its capable of wifi. Does it mean that I could listen to, say, YouTube music videos or online streaming music through the NW-ZX2 in a wifi zone? If so, that would be great.

I think so, i mean it runs on android and everything.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: zerodeefex on May 17, 2015, 05:03:39 AM
Finally heard the zx2.

Verdict: I'm glad I have the P1.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: wnmnkh on May 17, 2015, 05:18:01 AM
From the pictures in Head-Fi, AK380 is even bigger than AK240, which is already "too big" territory from my point of view.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 17, 2015, 05:45:15 AM
As it is people that own the ak240SS say that it ties with the  hm901 for sound quality and pulls ahead everywhere else (not worth the $2000 mark up for me but to each there own). 

Meh, sort of depends on priorities. Both are mid-fi sounding at best. I would tend to agree the 240 does like one or two tehcnicalities better but the 901 has a more cohesive and refined tone. Really sidegrades. Neither can touch a GO>Leckerton or a QP1.


Finally heard the zx2.

Verdict: I'm glad I have the P1.

See, nothing special right? zx2 is better than zx1 but not by that much and not worth the cost.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on May 17, 2015, 03:16:53 PM
the qp1 isn't finished yet, do you feel that they will leave the tunning alone?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 17, 2015, 05:48:25 PM
the qp1 isn't finished yet, do you feel that they will leave the tunning alone?

I see no reason to touch it. However, it wouldn't be the first time I've recommended a prototype which later changes a spec here or there. Plus, the question is whether the production built units will sound the same. I have no idea how the prototypes were built. Shouldn't be a problem as Foxconn was mentioned being involved.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Kunlun on May 18, 2015, 03:44:35 AM
Finally heard the zx2.

Verdict: I'm glad I have the P1.
If the Geek wave 128 ends up sucking, seems like the P1 is worth picking up.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Hawaiiancerveza on May 18, 2015, 05:08:43 AM
Has anyone gotten their wave 128 yet?  When were they slated to be shipped?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Jeff Y on May 18, 2015, 05:17:13 AM
Finally heard the zx2.

Verdict: I'm glad I have the P1.
There's another player released by Cowon now called M. Have you had a chance to try that yet?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: songmic on May 18, 2015, 05:40:23 AM
Has anyone here listened to Acoustic Research M2?
If so, how it compares against the likes of its competitors?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: slaine on May 18, 2015, 12:49:25 PM

Supposed to deliver in June. But who knows?
There's another player released by Cowon now called M. Have you had a chance to try that yet?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Kunlun on May 18, 2015, 01:27:51 PM
Has anyone gotten their wave 128 yet?  When were they slated to be shipped?

Ha ha no, the ship date is but a figment of our vain imaginings.

Or maybe August.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Griffon on May 18, 2015, 06:05:01 PM
Has anyone here listened to Acoustic Research M2?
If so, how it compares against the likes of its competitors?

According to some Hongkong review M2 has a very very high noise floor and has problematic gapless playback when playing ALAC. Also size is bigger than AK100II. I guess for 1200USD you can get something far better.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: songmic on May 21, 2015, 04:28:00 PM
After being utterly disappointed by the latest-gen AK series (AK240, AK100MKII and AK120MKII), my choice was boiled down to four products.

Cowon Plenue 1
Sony NW-ZX2
Calyx M
Questyle QP1R

Sony's wifi capability and the fact that I could watch YouTube music videos was quite tempting, but the fact that it is overpriced and cannot compete others in sound quality was a deal-breaker for me. Also, Calyx M's horrible battery life was a letdown too. Now it's between Cowon and Questyle, both of which I have yet to audition.

Anax says that Questyle QP1 was the best DAP he's heard, and that the QP1R might be better sounding since it's supposedly a higher-end model. He hasn't heard the Plenue 1. On the other hand, guys like Zero and CT had a lot of positive things to say about the Plenue 1. I'm torn between these two.

Here's what I've gathered so far.

1. Questyle apparently uses current mode technology, trickled down from their heavy-duty desktop amps. Must be a good thing, no?

2. However, QP1R incorporates the same Cirrus Logic DAC module used in AK240. And I hated the AK240's sound signature. What if the QP1R shares a similar tone as that of the Ak240?

3. Questyle doesn't have a touchscreen... but no big deal if it sounds superbly good enough.

4. Cowon P1 is said to have a slightly warm, natural and non-fatiguing tone. This is exactly the sound signature I'm looking for, if what they are saying is true. I don't want a bright dry sound and would rather have my music lean toward the warmer side, but not as much as to the point of being colored or muddled.

5. I live in South Korea where Cowon is from, so I can have it at a less expensive price than what most of you are familiar with. It is priced similarly to the QP1R here. In terms of price, both are even for me.

6. Again, I'm aware the GO450>Leck stomps just about every other portable setup people discuss around here, but I just want an all-in-one-chassis DAC without dangling three separate components with rubber bands.

So basically, I have a feeling that the Questyle QP1R will have superior technicalities and ultimately a more refined, resolving sound than the Cowon P1 thanks to its current mode. However, the fact that the QP1R shares the same DAC chip as the horrid AK240, and that I may end up preferring the P1's slightly warmer, non-fatiguing sound signature is what gets me.

Of course, the things I've said above is purely speculation based on other people's reports. But if you have any advice, feedback, or better yet, firsthand experience listening to both products (in a direct A/B comparison or on different occasions), please shoot.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on May 21, 2015, 04:58:04 PM
If you:
 don't care about touch screen
want an all in one
Dont mind the lag
Can find one of those discrete amp cards

 get the hm 901s it sarber + femto should give you this geek 450 feel if you fear the cirrus chip. 

If your still undecissive get the iPod nano(ease of use and OK with items) for $100 to hold you over or the clip+ and wait till you can go ears on with the aforementioned daps (preferred as no one else has your ears) or more comparison.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: songmic on May 21, 2015, 05:19:35 PM
I don't fear Cirrus Logic chips in general, I just fear the one inside the AK240. But perhaps the Cirrus Logic itself is not what's making the AK240 sound horrible, maybe it's how it is implemented or the problem may be with the amp section.

What I fear more are Saber chips, most of them have a nasty tendency of imparting shrill brightness to the sound sig. Funny how the Go450 receives a lot of praise albeit being Saber.

I read that HM-901 is mid-fi sounding at best. Is the HM-901S a significant improvement over the HM-901 that it may be considered TOTL like the Questyle?

I also forgot to mention that I'll be strictly using low-impedance, high-sensitivity, easy-to-drive balanced armature CIEM's with whatever DAC I end up with. Right now it's JH13 Pro Freqphase, considering Noble K10 in the future. I don't need a DAP with "moar power" to drive picky and/or power-hungry cans like HD800 or orthos. Just a DAP that can feed enough of high-quality amplification to low-imp/hi-eff easy to drive IEM's is all.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on May 21, 2015, 05:52:27 PM
I haven't heard that many cirrus implementations so I can't say.

The saber glare is still there but the product cost most people $100 so its forgivable.  At this price bracket almost all implementations have some problems.


Most daps have intro level sound for many reasons but two really big ones is space and power supply. In a comparison thread on head fi one memember compared $6000 worth of daps and the conclusion was that with his jh Roxanne the differences were minimal.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 21, 2015, 06:26:43 PM
get the hm 901s it sarber + femto should give you this geek 450 feel if you fear the cirrus chip. 

Have you heard the 901? It sounds nothing like the GO450 or v.2. Don't assume all Sabre and femto clocks sound the same. They do NOT. In fact, so far LHLabs is the only vendor that I've heard that knows how to produce a respectable sound using DSD, Sabre and femto tech. Everyone else is shooting in the dark and slapping marketing buzzwords on their products.

No, the AK240 does not sound like the QP1. Implementation, implementation, implementation. I HATE the AK240. I think it's worse sounding than the original AK120.

If you want a warm and forgiving sound, get the Plenue if that's how it actually sounds. That's not my reference signature so the QP1 might not be for you. Shame because the best warm and forgiving sounding DAP I've heard is the Calyx M. Not sure if the Plenue is better, maybe it is. The Calyx also has a relatively high output impedance so it might muck up your crossover in a multi BA.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Griffon on May 21, 2015, 06:58:04 PM
The Calyx also has a relatively high output impedance so it might muck up your crossover in a multi BA.

Anax, Calyx officially claims the output z is almost zero. I guess this shouldn't be a problem for multi BA CIEMs. The battery life really sucks
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: briskly on May 21, 2015, 07:10:54 PM
The Cowon Plenue M is already for sale, direct through JetAudio.

The Plenue P1's output impedance is on the high side for multi-driver IEMs. Spec says 3 ohms, measured as 2.7 ohms.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: JeremiahS on May 21, 2015, 07:32:35 PM
After being utterly disappointed by the latest-gen AK series (AK240, AK100MKII and AK120MKII), my choice was boiled down to four products.

Cowon Plenue 1
Sony NW-ZX2
Calyx M
Questyle QP1R

Sony's wifi capability and the fact that I could watch YouTube music videos was quite tempting, but the fact that it is overpriced and cannot compete others in sound quality was a deal-breaker for me. Also, Calyx M's horrible battery life was a letdown too. Now it's between Cowon and Questyle, both of which I have yet to audition.

Anax says that Questyle QP1 was the best DAP he's heard, and that the QP1R might be better sounding since it's supposedly a higher-end model. He hasn't heard the Plenue 1. On the other hand, guys like Zero and CT had a lot of positive things to say about the Plenue 1. I'm torn between these two.

Here's what I've gathered so far.

1. Questyle apparently uses current mode technology, trickled down from their heavy-duty desktop amps. Must be a good thing, no?

2. However, QP1R incorporates the same Cirrus Logic DAC module used in AK240. And I hated the AK240's sound signature. What if the QP1R shares a similar tone as that of the Ak240?

3. Questyle doesn't have a touchscreen... but no big deal if it sounds superbly good enough.

4. Cowon P1 is said to have a slightly warm, natural and non-fatiguing tone. This is exactly the sound signature I'm looking for, if what they are saying is true. I don't want a bright dry sound and would rather have my music lean toward the warmer side, but not as much as to the point of being colored or muddled.

5. I live in South Korea where Cowon is from, so I can have it at a less expensive price than what most of you are familiar with. It is priced similarly to the QP1R here. In terms of price, both are even for me.

6. Again, I'm aware the GO450>Leck stomps just about every other portable setup people discuss around here, but I just want an all-in-one-chassis DAC without dangling three separate components with rubber bands.

So basically, I have a feeling that the Questyle QP1R will have superior technicalities and ultimately a more refined, resolving sound than the Cowon P1 thanks to its current mode. However, the fact that the QP1R shares the same DAC chip as the horrid AK240, and that I may end up preferring the P1's slightly warmer, non-fatiguing sound signature is what gets me.

Of course, the things I've said above is purely speculation based on other people's reports. But if you have any advice, feedback, or better yet, firsthand experience listening to both products (in a direct A/B comparison or on different occasions), please shoot.

Dear songmic,

I may be of help since I am familiar with the Plenue 1, ZX2 and Calyx M.

In terms of overall SQ, I would rank these as follows: M > ZX2 > Plenue 1.

M has a warm signature but at the same it's a very technical sound. If Calyx does not say what DAC chip it use I can guarantee most people will not be able to guess that it have a Sabre chip. Another trump card it have is also its low output impedance unlike the ZX2 and Plenue 1 which have between 3 - 4 ohm. Angie and MH334 play much nicer with the M than the other two models.

ZX2 has a same sound signature like the ZX1 so it projects a lively, airy sound but unlike the ZX1 which has a midrange that is a bit recessed the ZX2 pushes it forward which make vocal stand out. I personally like this colouration because female vocal like Rebecca Pidgeon or Yao Si Ting sound simply amazing with the ZX2.

Plenue 1 I personally find it a bit boring. It's warm but at the same it's not very technical, detail level is below the ZX2 and Calyx M. It's overpriced I feel. At least with Astell & Kern DAPs they make it up with a fast, intuitive UI and sleek appearance but the Plenue 1 does not boast the same aesthetics.

In terms of overall usability, I would rank these as follow: ZX2 > Plenue 1 > M

I think it's a bit ironic because the M has such an awesome sound but its usability is seriously bad. It's huge, it's thick and the battery life is very short, 6-7 hours at best with average use of DSD and normal lossless files. UI used to be bad but it's acceptable now after firmware update but responsiveness is on the slow side.

Plenue 1 has an acceptable UI although it's a bit simplistic. It has a very comprehensive EQ and sound enhancement mods if that is your thing.

ZX2 is by far the best here. While the UI is fast and intuitive (but not as good as Astell & Kern DAPs), the biggest plus for me is you can install Android apps like Tidal and Spotify in the ZX2.

Hope this short comparison helps. I mostly use my FitEar MH334 for this comparison.

I would also ask you to consider the Lotoo PAW Gold. In terms of SQ, it's far better than the ZX2, Calyx M and Plenue 1. Its performance level is on a very different level I feel, around the same level as Altmann Tera.

Regards,
Jeremiah



Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on May 21, 2015, 07:39:49 PM
Have you heard the 901? It sounds nothing like the GO450 or v.2. Don't assume all Sabre and femto clocks sound the same. They do NOT. In fact, so far LHLabs is the only vendor that I've heard that knows how to produce a respectable sound using DSD, Sabre and femto tech. Everyone else is shooting in the dark and slapping marketing buzzwords on their products.

No, the AK240 does not sound like the QP1. Implementation, implementation, implementation. I HATE the AK240. I think it's worse sounding than the original AK120.

If you want a warm and forgiving sound, get the Plenue if that's how it actually sounds. That's not my reference signature so the QP1 might not be for you. Shame because the best warm and forgiving sounding DAP I've heard is the Calyx M. Not sure if the Plenue is better, maybe it is. The Calyx also has a relatively high output impedance so it might muck up your crossover in a multi BA.
First of don't misquote me i dont misquote you. I have never heard the new saber chip so i cant comment on it but i heard multiple implementations of the old saber chips and there always is something weird in the tremble . so i got no opinions on the geek v2 sound. with the geek there is this weird thinning in the tremble.

So I assumed that songmic was going to use 16 bit PCM and with pcm the geek hm 901 differences is that the geek is more full bodied while the hm901 is more clinical the discrete card is suppose  to fix that and there is also a vintage switch to use the Butterworth filter.

I could give a shit how the geek sounds with DSD it was a pointless format that is all but dead and if your making recommendation's to spend $250 to listen to ten albums you really need to start putting an asterisk on your review.  If I can't do redbook better I don't care.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 21, 2015, 10:39:54 PM
First of don't misquote me i dont misquote you. I have never heard the new saber chip so i cant comment on it but i heard multiple implementations of the old saber chips and there always is something weird in the tremble . so i got no opinions on the geek v2 sound. with the geek there is this weird thinning in the tremble.

So I assumed that songmic was going to use 16 bit PCM and with pcm the geek hm 901 differences is that the geek is more full bodied while the hm901 is more clinical the discrete card is suppose  to fix that and there is also a vintage switch to use the Butterworth filter.

I could give a shit how the geek sounds with DSD it was a pointless format that is all but dead and if your making recommendation's to spend $250 to listen to ten albums you really need to start putting an asterisk on your review.  If I can't do redbook better I don't care.

Man, you really need to learn to control your hate for Light Harmonic. It's really making you say some over the top nonsense.

The 901 I heard was quite warm and full bodied based on that amp card.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on May 22, 2015, 02:56:31 AM
Man, you really need to learn to control your hate for Light Harmonic. It's really making you say some over the top nonsense.

The 901 I heard was quite warm and full bodied based on that amp card.


??? Pretty sure dsd was made by sony, so how am I antiLight harmonic for saying that dsd is pointless?  I'd say the same thing with any dsd dac.  Would you feel better if I said fuck the loki, its a pointless dac?  I never saw the point of people still trying to back dsd there were maybe 5,000 albums made for the format and over half of those are mixed in pcm before being transferred to DSD.  Apologies to everyone that wants to take their DSD on the road but I didn't think that hauling around 5GB albums packaging it in pcm wrapper, unpacking it and converting to PCM, uprezing it to 64 bit, doing a digital dither to the appropriate bit rate (digital volume control), converting back to dsd, processing it, then converting it back pcm for it to play nice with the LPF and I/V  stage was so appealing.  There are very few commercial dacs that can actually do native dsd and the only one's LH have are the dual Da vinci and (when it ships) the geek soul so spending an extra $10 an album to listen to pseudo dsd isn't for me.  It was pointless then and its still pointless now.  The only application that I could it being useful is that when doing the ADC you don't need to apply a filter but thats it.  Sony has gone on record saying that the format is for archiving purposes only.

I never made my dislike of the LH a secret but I don't understand what that has anything to do with this, because I didn't suggest the geek wave?  Thats still 3 months out optimistically and I don't comment on it because I haven't heard it.  The question wasn't was it is the best transportable set up period it was what was the best dap and I was trying to find the closest thing to the geek 450+leckerton stack that I could think of in a dap.  I may not like LH but I'm about the community first and he want's a geek like sound ok I'll give my best possible recomendation.  So because I don't agree with you I don't know shit?  Like I said the hm901 was a little clinical when I heard it but that was with the IEM card, I read that the discrete and angel cards help and you could play around with them and the filters.   Thats what I heard deal with it, no one has to take my opinion if they don't want it, in fact I said you should let your own ears make the decision for you.  Never did I say don't buy the geek v2 or the first, get whatever works for you.  Simple as that.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Kunlun on May 22, 2015, 03:47:20 AM
Has anyone else heard this looloo paw paw DAP? Because it seems intriguing.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: tomscy2000 on May 22, 2015, 04:07:06 AM
The PAW Gold is pretty good. Very clean, resolving, powerful. A good PCM1792 implementation. But a little too matter-of-fact, if people prefer more character to their sources.

The player itself weighs much like a gold bullion. If used as a blunt instrument, it could easily kill someone.

UI is responsive and easy to use/read, if a bit primitive.

Not sure if it's worth the price, but fore sure it's one of the better sounding DAPs out there.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 22, 2015, 08:12:35 AM
??? Pretty sure dsd was made by sony, so how am I antiLight harmonic for saying that dsd is pointless?  I'd say the same thing with any dsd dac. 

Please. Per your own criteria, the 450 does make redbook sound better than the 901. It doesn't sound like the 901 and I didn't misquote you at all about the v.2 because I also mentioned specifically the GO450 which is a v.1. My criteria for whether DACs sound alike is significantly more comprehensive than whether one DAC has a treble issue or not. Guess what, other sigma delta DACs had treble issues too before Sabre was around.

Nobody was talking about the DSD format war except yourself. Which was a sideshow comment definitely not directed at Sony per your context. I only brought up DSD per LH's expertise with the Sabre chip compared to others thus far. After three threads and shoutbox crapping on LH for last few weeks, it's a hard sell for me to buy your comment about DSD as not directed as a slam against LH. Either way, it shouldn't detract from the SQ comments about redbook playback for various DAPs.

So you know where I'm coming from, I wasn't too thrilled having to clean up your little pout in the Changfest thread, also indirectly directed at LH. As you can tell, my tolerance for this behavior is gone. Feel free to criticize constructively about issues and SQ, but your whining, pouting and passive aggressive snipes about their products that have nothing to do with their actual performance will no longer be tolerated by myself. It's just old and annoying now.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 22, 2015, 08:15:37 AM
But a little too matter-of-fact, if people prefer more character to their sources.

Are you saying it's too transparent or too colored?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: songmic on May 22, 2015, 02:38:57 PM
Thank you for all your feedback! I think I pretty much made up my mind.
BTW I didn't mean to start a flame war when I wrote my original post... Sorry if things got a bit out of hand.

When I thought about it, I did feel that not having a touchscreen would be pretty inconvenient. Also, considering my CIEM's are JH13 Pro and possibly Kaiser 10 in the future, which tend to sound from neutral to somewhat bright, I think a slightly warm DAP like the Cowon P1 might be a better choice for me. I'm looking at used P1 deals for around $700 here... think I'll grab one soon.

Good news is though, I do have a chance to audition a QP1R soon, although I don't think I could make a direct A/B comparison with P1. I'll mostly likely pull the trigger after having heard both, in a few weeks. Who knows, if the QP1R sounds immensely better than the P1 then maybe it could win me over despite the lack of a touchscreen.

Forgive me for what might seem like making a compromise, but I prefer my music to be relaxing, easy-on-the-ear, non-fatiguing "muzak" when I'm on the go. Critical listening for planktons and searching the "truth" in sound might be a bit of a distracting task when I'm crossing the streets or riding the subway, no matter how well my CIEM's isolate.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Claritas on May 22, 2015, 03:03:33 PM
Feel free to criticize constructively about issues and SQ, but your whining, pouting and passive aggressive snipes about their products that have nothing to do with their actual performance will no longer be tolerated by myself.

Word! No more criticism of the fucking wretched way they run their business, bitch, because they're the Premier Sponsor now. p:/
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: phillip88 on May 22, 2015, 03:25:54 PM
I've tried the Lotoo PawGold. It's quite clinical to my ears. Less warmth. More of the neutral but not quite bright sound. Nah, not for me because of the ancient UI lol.

I love Calyx M. It's really so much entertaining to listen to, especially the smooth signature which doesn't pierce my ears. Less detail? Perhaps, but the signature is to my liking. Warm, non-bright, quite thick, and enjoyable.

Sony ZX1 I remembered as very digital sounding. Clean, yes. But kinda... digital. I don't know why I associate it with this word tho. But the form factor is splendid.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Azteca X on May 22, 2015, 03:50:19 PM
Word! No more criticism of the fucking wretched way they run their business, bitch, because they're the Premier Sponsor now. p:/

While I hear you, it is pretty easy to find a used GO at little expense, ready to ship out to you as soon as the poster gets to the post office so I don't think it's particularly relevant if you're talking about their already widely available products.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 22, 2015, 06:56:11 PM
Word! No more criticism of the fucking wretched way they run their business, bitch, because they're the Premier Sponsor now. p:/

Don't be a pedantic dumbass. You know exactly what I wrote or did you actually read it? "criticize constructively" Stupid comments like the one you just made are exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Patience=zero. Try me again and see.

I've even made two separate threads awhile back where you bitches can whine about anything but you can't control yourselves I guess.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on May 22, 2015, 07:21:20 PM
Thank you for all your feedback! I think I pretty much made up my mind.
BTW I didn't mean to start a flame war when I wrote my original post... Sorry if things got a bit out of hand.

When I thought about it, I did feel that not having a touchscreen would be pretty inconvenient. Also, considering my CIEM's are JH13 Pro and possibly Kaiser 10 in the future, which tend to sound from neutral to somewhat bright, I think a slightly warm DAP like the Cowon P1 might be a better choice for me. I'm looking at used P1 deals for around $700 here... think I'll grab one soon.

Good news is though, I do have a chance to audition a QP1R soon, although I don't think I could make a direct A/B comparison with P1. I'll mostly likely pull the trigger after having heard both, in a few weeks. Who knows, if the QP1R sounds immensely better than the P1 then maybe it could win me over despite the lack of a touchscreen.

Forgive me for what might seem like making a compromise, but I prefer my music to be relaxing, easy-on-the-ear, non-fatiguing "muzak" when I'm on the go. Critical listening for planktons and searching the "truth" in sound might be a bit of a distracting task when I'm crossing the streets or riding the subway, no matter how well my CIEM's isolate.

No worries dude, I think this was brewing for a while. Hope you like whatever you end up with. 

Done derailing the thread anax I'll pm you later if want to continue discussion
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 22, 2015, 07:30:52 PM
No worries. I think we understand where each is coming from. Cheers.  :)p5
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Claritas on May 22, 2015, 08:10:13 PM
Patience=zero. Try me again and see.

:-Z  Someone needs a beer.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 22, 2015, 08:16:51 PM
:-Z  Someone needs a beer.

True. Brb....
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on May 22, 2015, 08:21:11 PM
No worries. I think we understand where each is coming from. Cheers.  :)p5

Cheers.

One more thing since my post on the changfest thread keep getting deleted can you take my name of the attendance list?  I meant what I said I'm not attending any function that's co sponsored by that company, call it what you want but where I'm from we call that consistency if you call a company shit you shouldn't turn around and beg them for stuff.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on May 22, 2015, 08:42:31 PM
WTF are you on about now? I deleted one post about you saying, "Fuck it, I'm out, blah, blah blah everyone look at me I'm not happy, wah wah." What else did you post since? What stuff are you begging for? Did someone say we don't believe you and were going to make you attend? WTH are you smoking?

Fuck the beer, I need a Scotch.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Sorrodje on May 22, 2015, 08:48:54 PM
Fuck the beer, I need a Scotch.

weed ? meds ? Met ?   :&

Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on May 22, 2015, 09:56:03 PM
WTF are you on about now? I deleted one post about you saying, "Fuck it, I'm out, blah, blah blah everyone look at me I'm not happy, wah wah." What else did you post since? What stuff are you begging for? Did someone say we don't believe you and were going to make you attend? WTH are you smoking?

Fuck the beer, I need a Scotch.
Hahaha yup thats the response I'd thought id get.  man your easy today.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: gelocks on May 23, 2015, 03:57:36 AM
I like the Cowon's I've tried because of the optimizations. I just like the Jet Effects and BBE combo but the problem I've had with them is that they sound kind of... soft... Too warm!! Remember the Sennheiser "veil" that everyone used to talk about? Well, to me all Cowon players have a real warm-ish veil which just make everything lack clarity... at least to my ears. Like them but would never spend more than $200 on them...

The new AK Jr looks good, but $500?! No. Still sticking with the cheaper Sony!
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: tomscy2000 on May 23, 2015, 09:24:24 AM
Are you saying it's too transparent or too colored?

Pretty much the below:

I've tried the Lotoo PawGold. It's quite clinical to my ears. Less warmth. More of the neutral but not quite bright sound. Nah, not for me because of the ancient UI lol.

I love Calyx M. It's really so much entertaining to listen to, especially the smooth signature which doesn't pierce my ears. Less detail? Perhaps, but the signature is to my liking. Warm, non-bright, quite thick, and enjoyable. Sony ZX1 I remembered as very digital sounding. Clean, yes. But kinda... digital. I don't know why I associate it with this word tho. But the form factor is splendid.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: mosshorn on June 01, 2015, 03:25:00 PM
What were everyone's opinions on the original AK100? The dreaded "Sabre Glare" makes me nervous, and I'm not the hugest fan of CL from what I've heard. I've liked what I've read about it, as I want a slightly warm but portable source for my UERMs.


Hell, even the AK Jr seems appealing right now...
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: songmic on June 01, 2015, 04:39:03 PM
What were everyone's opinions on the original AK100? The dreaded "Sabre Glare" makes me nervous, and I'm not the hugest fan of CL from what I've heard. I've liked what I've read about it, as I want a slightly warm but portable source for my UERMs.

Hell, even the AK Jr seems appealing right now...

As a previous owner, the original AK100 was nothing to write home about--yes it was indeed Sabrey Glarey but not as much so as the MKII stuff--but the RWAK mod somehow took some of that the edge off despite lowering the output impedance from 22 to like 1 or less.

While the DAP market has advanced far since then, I felt that the RWAK100 was actually a solid performer for its price back then, and actually preferred its sound signature to that of the ridiculously expensive and ex-flagship of the AK line, the AK240, while using my JH13 FP.

I'm actually curious about how the AK Jr sounds, albeit my disappoint with the AK240 and MKII series.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on June 01, 2015, 05:13:16 PM
What were everyone's opinions on the original AK100? The dreaded "Sabre Glare" makes me nervous, and I'm not the hugest fan of CL from what I've heard. I've liked what I've read about it, as I want a slightly warm but portable source for my UERMs.


Hell, even the AK Jr seems appealing right now...

AK120mk1 and AK jr. are better than the AK100. Especially with Pro EQ enabled. I consider it a must on those players personally.

I hate to say this, but if you want warm and perhaps a laid back sound but good separation, try to see if you can listen to a Pono in balanced mode and get a balanced cable for your UERM. Pono will warm them up a bit. Otherwise the best warm/dark player I've heard is the Calyx M.

As a previous owner, the original AK100 was nothing to write home about--yes it was indeed Sabrey Glarey but not as much so as the MKII stuff--but the RWAK mod somehow took some of that the edge off despite lowering the output impedance from 22 to like 1 or less.

While the DAP market has advanced far since then, I felt that the RWAK100 was actually a solid performer for its price back then, and actually preferred its sound signature to that of the ridiculously expensive and ex-flagship of the AK line, the AK240, while using my JH13 FP.

I'm actually curious about how the AK Jr sounds, albeit my disappoint with the AK240 and MKII series.

Agreed on the 240 and mkIIs. Worthless overrated garb. 120mkI, Jr. and 380 are the only ones worth consideration IME. Caveat that the 380's balanced mode sucks tbh. Thin and a bit harsh. Of course, you have to be comfortable with the prices.

Honestly, I'm not sure if most of the audiophile DAPs that have come out the last few years are even on par with my old $99 Sflo2 from 4-5 years ago.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: mosshorn on June 01, 2015, 05:53:08 PM
AK120mk1 and AK jr. are better than the AK100.
Honestly, I'm not sure if most of the audiophile DAPs that have come out the last few years are even on par with my old $99 Sflo2 from 4-5 years ago.


I REMEMBER THE SFLO2! I forget, what was wrong with it, wasn't it the battery or something? I agree though. The AK Jr and the original AKs are the only two I think bring/brought something to the table. I think if AK could have gotten the Jr down to even $400 people would be kicking down the doors, because there isn't a decent ultrathin DAP right now except the Sony. And the Sony has hiss, which for most IEM users (myself included) is a big red flag.

If I could design my dream player, it would be an Ipod Mini with updated internals, possibly balanced out? I'm actually trying to use my DIYmod mini right now, but Rockbox is being a fickle bitch about me not using a CF instead of an adapter.

Anax, the Pono has crossed my mind more than once. The output impedance is high, which I'm not sure how to feel if it's truly some big deal, or if it's more witch doctor stuff. The reviews I've read of Pono makes it seem like I'll fall in love with its sig.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on June 01, 2015, 06:01:17 PM
It is a big deal for accurate and transparent sound reproduction with a multi BA crossover like the UERM. But if you like laid back and warm maybe that's not such a bad thing. Things can also get a bit fuzzy and soft bu that's part of that sort of signature sometimes. A single driver or crossoverless IEM sounds better with the Pono IMO. Not to mention, if you listen louder than 70dB at times, the Pono's SE output is pretty weak even with the UERM, let alone headphones. Probably the weakest output I can recall from a mainstream DAP in a long time. I think my old $20 Fiio E5 got louder.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: mosshorn on June 01, 2015, 06:14:03 PM
The preference for a warm sig isn't necessarily in a tubelike, "smeared, enjoyable sound" way. For me, I just absolutely abhor thin sound in the mids, particularly low mids. I got the UERM thinking I could have it as a baseline and tweak my gear from there, since locking your headphones into 1 sig ruins any versatility IMO (went the warm IEM route in the past, eh).

I respect accuracy, but if given the choice between tinny and syrupy, I'll choose syrupy. Preferably right down the middle though (back to the versatility thing :P)
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on June 01, 2015, 06:19:54 PM
Well 'tubelike' around here is crystal clear, tight, resolving and dynamic, but I get what you mean. Pono might be too much of a good thing for you then with the UERM. Maybe the CalyxM or QP1R, but they are a whole other price point. You could possibly look into the Sony ZX2. Again, not cheap. I hate the prices of all this new stuff... :spank:
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: mosshorn on June 01, 2015, 06:32:54 PM
Tell me about it. It seemed like not too long ago $600 was considered top tier for the portable game, and now it's suddenly mid-fi? A&K really made the market blow up in both good and bad ways.

Part of me misses the days of everyone using an Ipod as a base, then mixing and matching various amps and dacs to produce what they wanted. So many options now make it to where you feel there almost isn't a decent all around DAP, even though most every one of them under $500 is amazing for the price. I remember why I left headphones last time and went to vintage audio: everyone agrees what is good and bad there  :)p6

Also, these companies need to get off the DSD circlejerk. For christ sake, we get it. Instead of giving me "badass" DSD capability, how about you give me something useful to common portable audiophile. Like idk, no hiss?

EDIT: Also you now see why I know tubes as syrupy. My KLH Model 6's with tubes are like eating candy, not healthy but sooooo good   :&
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: electropop on June 01, 2015, 08:56:23 PM
Getting the UERM.

Has anyone tried those with the A17? I recall someone saying it's a tad bright, which doesn't bode well with the RM I take it.. Also output impedance >5ohm or something.

I do have the Lecks UHA-6S mkII. Nice little amp. I have it with the OPA209, which is fine but highly suspectible to interference. Is the OP-amp swappable and hypothetically, could one find a good synergy with the A17 and UHA-6S with switching the OPA209 to something, uhhh, warmer without sacrificing other technicalities? What do you think?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: aufmerksam on June 01, 2015, 09:08:11 PM
A17 no amp:
I use the A17 (no amp) with UERM regularly. Its pretty good, but not the most great evar, I wouldn't say brightness is the issue so much as an overall thinness to the presentation; A17 does not play to the UERM strengths among CIEMs (balanced signature, sound stage, detail). Output impedence isn't as big a deal with UERM as other CIEMs.

A17>Leck:
However, adding the UHA-6s is a pretty large step forward (for the A17). zdfx commented on this earlier (I think in this same thread), something to effect of A17>Leck>UERM is "listenable" or "decent enough for that degree of portability" or somesuch.

Whenever I can, I include the Leckerton in the chain, but there are some use cases where that much bulk doesn't work for me, and I still find the A17 satisfactory. It also has pretty robust EQ and related tweaks if you wanted to tinker with the sound.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: electropop on June 01, 2015, 09:21:42 PM
Yeah the general bulkiness is something I want to avoid as well. The A17 slips into a pocket with an L-plug quite nicely (don't own it, but have tried the A15 briefly).

I think I've read something along those lines, about the UERM not being that picky about output impedance at least. I think it's more a matter of how picky you are yourself. But a relief you're not fucked if you do end up with a less than adequate music source..

Which op-amp are you rocking in the Lecks?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: aufmerksam on June 01, 2015, 09:31:23 PM
uhhhh... one of the 4627s? I always fuck up which one. Probably the 1B?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: zerodeefex on June 01, 2015, 09:34:26 PM
A17 > UERM sounds anemic. With Leck with 4627-1B is pretty decent.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: mosshorn on June 01, 2015, 09:39:39 PM
Weird question: what would the output impedance on a balanced termination be? Electrically I would like to think it doubles, but I'm not entirely sure. Anyone have an idea?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: songmic on June 02, 2015, 01:31:32 AM
Weird question: what would the output impedance on a balanced termination be? Electrically I would like to think it doubles, but I'm not entirely sure. Anyone have an idea?

Intuitively speaking, wouldn't it be halved and not doubled?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: songmic on June 02, 2015, 01:47:02 AM
Anax, have you heard the AK Jr? Then I have some questions.

1. The main reason I disliked the AK120 MKII and AK240 was mainly due to its sound sig: somewhat bright, harsh, lifeless and anemic. Did my JH13 FP no favors whatsoever. What can you tell me about the AK Jr's sound sig? Does it share the same somewhat bright and harsh qualities of the Astell&Kern DNA of its predecessors? Or would you say that it's fairly neutral, or even a tad on the warmer side?

2. Not counting price into consideration, how would you rate the AK Jr's sonic performance in comparison to other DAP's? Would you go as far as to say that the Jr actually performs better than the 240 SQ-wise, or that the 240 is still better by a margin or two but value-wise the Jr is far better?
I remember you also saying that the Sony ZX2 sounds mid-fi, mediocre at best... how about the Jr compared to ZX2?
I heard that the Jr is definitely a class above the ZX1.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: burnspbesq on June 02, 2015, 01:49:17 AM
I think I've read something along those lines, about the UERM not being that picky about output impedance at least

I think you've got that exactly backwards. The impedance-to-frequency curve for the UERM looks like the Swiss Alps. That's why it's an unfortunate choice for use with the Pono Player, whose output impedance is (depending on who you believe) either (a) somewhere between 3.5 and 4 ohms or (b) a moving target due to the way the diamond buffer circuit reacts to changes in voltage. Balanced mode helps, but it's not a panacea. If I were determined to only use UERM for portable applications, I would put my Pono Player on the market today and get a AK Jr. There are, fortunately, a number of very good IEMs that don't have any impedance issues with the Pono Player, starting with the Noble 4.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: OJneg on June 02, 2015, 02:32:39 AM
Intuitively speaking, wouldn't it be halved and not doubled?

Will be doubled assuming you're adding another "channel" of amplification. Will not change if you're just summing
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on June 02, 2015, 05:30:41 AM
Anax, have you heard the AK Jr? Then I have some questions.

1. The main reason I disliked the AK120 MKII and AK240 was mainly due to its sound sig: somewhat bright, harsh, lifeless and anemic. Did my JH13 FP no favors whatsoever. What can you tell me about the AK Jr's sound sig? Does it share the same somewhat bright and harsh qualities of the Astell&Kern DNA of its predecessors? Or would you say that it's fairly neutral, or even a tad on the warmer side?

2. Not counting price into consideration, how would you rate the AK Jr's sonic performance in comparison to other DAP's? Would you go as far as to say that the Jr actually performs better than the 240 SQ-wise, or that the 240 is still better by a margin or two but value-wise the Jr is far better?
I remember you also saying that the Sony ZX2 sounds mid-fi, mediocre at best... how about the Jr compared to ZX2?
I heard that the Jr is definitely a class above the ZX1.


1-I hate the 240, 100, and anything mk2 so let's not go there. Total step backward IMHO. The Jr. (with and without ProEQ enabled is closer to sounding like the AK120mk1, which I thought was pretty good, if not expensive. However, the Jr. is a little less refined/smooth in the treble and bass presentation than the 120mk1, but close with a similar signature. I'd say the Jr. is almost like an AK120mk1 micro.

2-See above, I hate the 240 and it's not just because of price. Thin, dead, lifeless and unrefined. Total jip. Sounds no better than a $150 Fiio to me. Jr. is definitely above the ZX1 a bit. A whole class above? Some of that lack of refinement keeps me from going that far. However, the ZX2 is almost a class above the ZX1 which makes it above average to my sensibilities. That's a warmer yet acceptable technical performer.

So for me....100/120mk2<240=ZX1<Jr.<ZX2<120mk1<QP1<380<GO450+Leck+source<QP1+Leck<=GOv2+Leck+source.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: songmic on June 02, 2015, 06:08:20 AM
1-I hate the 240, 100, and anything mk2 so let's not go there. Total step backward IMHO. The Jr. (with and without ProEQ enabled is closer to sounding like the AK120mk1, which I thought was pretty good, if not expensive. However, the Jr. is a little less refined/smooth in the treble and bass presentation than the 120mk1, but close with a similar signature. I'd say the Jr. is almost like an AK120mk1 micro.

2-See above, I hate the 240 and it's not just because of price. Thin, dead, lifeless and unrefined. Total jip. Sounds no better than a $150 Fiio to me. Jr. is definitely above the ZX1 a bit. A whole class above? Some of that lack of refinement keeps me from going that far. However, the ZX2 is almost a class above the ZX1 which makes it above average to my sensibilities. That's a warmer yet acceptable technical performer.

So for me....100/120mk2<240=ZX1<Jr.<ZX2<120mk1<QP1<380<GO450+Leck+source<QP1+Leck<=GOv2+Leck+source.


Thanks a lot for your input. The Jr sems to have stunning value. And yet, you say it is not as good as the ZX2... The Cowon P1 on my mind was said to be superior to both ZX2 and 120mk1, so I'm guessing it's on a similar league with QP1. The fact that P1 has a mildly warm and forgiving sound sig, along with its touchscreen functionality which the QP1 lacks, currently makes it no.1 on my DAP to buy list.

1. Have you heard the Centrance Glove A1? It supposedly latches onto the 120mk1 and makes it better sounding. If you have heard it, approximately where would you place the 120mk1/Glove A1 on your DAP scale? Don't tell me the Glove A1 actually makes the 120mk1 sounds worse compared to stock...

2. Other than a smartphone, which portable source do you recommend to pair with GOv2 & Leck? An audiophile-grade portable source that can output a high quality digital line out into the GOv2?

3. Have you heard the QP1R? If so, how is it different/better/worse compared to QP1?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on June 02, 2015, 06:32:49 AM
Thanks a lot for your input. The Jr sems to have stunning value. And yet, you say it is not as good as the ZX2... The Cowon P1 on my mind was said to be superior to both ZX2 and 120mk1, so I'm guessing it's on a similar league with QP1. The fact that P1 has a mildly warm and forgiving sound sig, along with its touchscreen functionality which the QP1 lacks, currently makes it no.1 on my DAP to buy list.

1. Have you heard the Centrance Glove A1? It supposedly latches onto the 120mk1 and makes it better sounding. If you have heard it, approximately where would you place the 120mk1/Glove A1 on your DAP scale? Don't tell me the Glove A1 actually makes the 120mk1 sounds worse compared to stock...

2. Other than a smartphone, which portable source do you recommend to pair with GOv2 & Leck? An audiophile-grade portable source that can output a high quality digital line out into the GOv2?

3. Have you heard the QP1R? If so, how is it different/better/worse compared to QP1?

1-mostly because the ZX2 has more refinement and is close enough in other areas. It's going to be a matter of preferences. Treble issues would definitely be more frequent and obvious on the Jr. than the ZX2 for example.

2-Tablet/phablet/smartphone

3-Yes. Tough one. It's a warmer tone thats smoother and more forgiving. I felt the QP1 had better air and space, etc., but at the cost or a more unrefined treble note on ocassion. The QP1R seems to be tweaked to offer more of a warmer Meridian/Mark Levinson audiophile signature. It was more sidegrade than upgrade. Problem was there was less energy and extension up top and the images tended to blur a little more into the imaging spaces from the added warmth. There was some debate about whether these were production units or not. I was told not, others said other things.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: songmic on June 02, 2015, 08:52:12 AM
Then it's settled, the Plenue 1 it is. No way in the nine circles of hell I'm paying over $3K for a portable DAP, especially when it still falls below a sub-$1K combo of GOv2 and Leck. This won't be my first Cowon purchase though, I've owned a couple Cowon mp3 players and PMP's around 10 years ago when I was still at school.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: electropop on June 02, 2015, 09:58:34 AM
I think you've got that exactly backwards. The impedance-to-frequency curve for the UERM looks like the Swiss Alps. That's why it's an unfortunate choice for use with the Pono Player, whose output impedance is (depending on who you believe) either (a) somewhere between 3.5 and 4 ohms or (b) a moving target due to the way the diamond buffer circuit reacts to changes in voltage. Balanced mode helps, but it's not a panacea. If I were determined to only use UERM for portable applications, I would put my Pono Player on the market today and get a AK Jr. There are, fortunately, a number of very good IEMs that don't have any impedance issues with the Pono Player, starting with the Noble 4.

Right, maybe people have liked the shelved treble and thus commented on it not being a problem. I only have my phone and an old iPod Classic at the moment. We'll see which way to go from there when I receive the customs.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: mosshorn on June 02, 2015, 08:19:54 PM
Apparently the DX90 just got an update to take off some of the Sabre glare. Overall I feel the DX90 is the safer package (large community, Rockbox, removable battery), but the allure of that Jr is pretty dang high.

Now that I think about it, I'm shocked no one has jumped on a balanced DX90 yet. That seems like something people would want.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on June 02, 2015, 09:17:32 PM
Because most of us that have heard iBasso DAPs here have never been impressed. They've usually been very average sounding barely better than a Clip+. Adding Sabre glare only made it worse than a Clip+.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: mosshorn on June 02, 2015, 11:06:27 PM
Good to know then :P By some crazy generous turn of events today, I'm going to be demoing.....a Calyx M! I have a feeling this is terrible news for my poor wallet  :)p1 I'll keep everyone up to date on it!
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: skooby on June 03, 2015, 12:53:29 AM
I just got hold of an AK120.  It sounds great through the UERM in stock mode.  Wonder what are the takes on the Red Wine Audio Mod.  Just the basic RWAK120 mod, not the S or B mods.  Worth the $$ (may ask Vinnie to upgrade the battery cap too)?   
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Azteca X on June 03, 2015, 02:30:59 PM
Does anyone else think that Astell & Kern basically made the Geek Wave before LH Labs could get them into production?
http://www.astellnkern.com/eng/htm/akjr/akjr_feature.asp
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: itsJokko on June 03, 2015, 04:55:47 PM
Ravi prefers the P1, Jeremiah prefers the ZX2, hmm. Anax, have you heard the Plenue?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on June 03, 2015, 05:06:58 PM
Does anyone else think that Astell & Kern basically made the Geek Wave before LH Labs could get them into production?
http://www.astellnkern.com/eng/htm/akjr/akjr_feature.asp

Not really. Unless something has changed the Wave has digital output and 2 sdxc slots. Not to mention their DSD/Sabre/femto expertise and multiple filters. Plus the Wave's processor is going to be ARM so should be pretty fast sans lag.

AK will be tough to beat or match with build quality though. Their latest stuff is super refined. I dare say better than Sony in some ways.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: JeremiahS on June 03, 2015, 09:31:15 PM
Hi people,

I should have a chance to audition and compare the AK Jr and Lotoo Paw 5000 in the weekend. Both have similar pricing so it will be interesting.

I feel the older brother Paw Gold doesn't seem get the recognition it deserves. CMIIW, it's also the only current DAP with a parametric equalizer.

Regards,
Jeremiah
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: mosshorn on June 04, 2015, 08:02:12 PM
I haven't really read anything about the PAW5000. Can't wait to see your impressions :)


For $200, the X3ii seems to be a pretty good value. I'll be reviewing the X5ii in the coming month.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: DGCFAD on June 05, 2015, 10:46:30 PM
the qp1 isn't finished yet, do you feel that they will leave the tunning alone?
I see no reason to touch it. However, it wouldn't be the first time I've recommended a prototype which later changes a spec here or there. Plus, the question is whether the production built units will sound the same. I have no idea how the prototypes were built. Shouldn't be a problem as Foxconn was mentioned being involved.
While the essentials are the same as the prototypes we showed at CanJam and Axpona, the production samples we had at Munich and at T.H.E. Show Newport have better sound. The QP1 is now equivalent to the prototype QP1R, while the production QP1R has a more refined sound though with a slightly lower power output. The output impedance is .19 ohm for the QP1 and .17 ohm for the QP1R.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: DGCFAD on June 05, 2015, 11:25:21 PM
1-mostly because the ZX2 has more refinement and is close enough in other areas. It's going to be a matter of preferences. Treble issues would definitely be more frequent and obvious on the Jr. than the ZX2 for example.

2-Tablet/phablet/smartphone

3-Yes. Tough one. It's a warmer tone thats smoother and more forgiving. I felt the QP1 had better air and space, etc., but at the cost or a more unrefined treble note on ocassion. The QP1R seems to be tweaked to offer more of a warmer Meridian/Mark Levinson audiophile signature. It was more sidegrade than upgrade. Problem was there was less energy and extension up top and the images tended to blur a little more into the imaging spaces from the added warmth. There was some debate about whether these were production units or not. I was told not, others said other things.

The units at T.H.E. Show Newport were production samples, meaning that sonically and operationally they are the same as production units, but last minute changes and mechanical refinements had not been fully implemented.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: slaine on June 06, 2015, 02:49:11 AM
When is this going to become generally available worldwide?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: DGCFAD on June 06, 2015, 06:52:55 PM
When is this going to become generally available worldwide?
They're in production now, it will probably take about four weeks to get them to market (packaging, shipping and customs).
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Hifi01170 on June 10, 2015, 08:32:08 AM
So for me....100/120mk2<240=ZX1<Jr.<ZX2<120mk1<QP1<380<GO450+Leck+source<QP1+Leck<=GOv2+Leck+source.

Hi Anax! Where would you put the RWAK100-S if you have had a chance to check it out?
Your comments made me look for the QP1... as the best portable solution for my needs.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on June 10, 2015, 03:47:38 PM
I haven't heard the RWAK100-S as of yet.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Hifi01170 on June 11, 2015, 07:00:08 AM
okido!

in the process of getting one!

Might try to briefly compare it to the ak100 stock and ak120 stock once I receive it!
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Bína on June 17, 2015, 04:12:15 PM
Hi guys, any opinion on sound of new Hifiman HM901S? And are they still so bad with UI as before?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: maverickronin on June 17, 2015, 04:31:39 PM
Hi guys, any opinion on sound of new Hifiman HM901S? And are they still so bad with UI as before?

The UI still sucks.  The one I tried at AXPONA had a 1-2 second lag on pretty much every button press.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: ohm-image on July 16, 2015, 12:36:02 PM
380

I have both DAPs in my office for a few more days. If you're interested, I will be publishing loaded and unloaded RMAA and square wave results tomorrow.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: ohm-image on July 16, 2015, 12:41:07 PM
I haven't really read anything about the PAW5000. Can't wait to see your impressions :)


For $200, the X3ii seems to be a pretty good value. I'll be reviewing the X5ii in the coming month.

It is pretty impressive. It's not one I'd buy, but that's because I like small, simple things, and the X3ii's UI makes me dizzy.

Anywhere, here are some RMAA results for the X3i: http://ohm-image.net/data/audio/rmaa-fiio-x3ii-16-24-bit-loaded-unloaded (as measured through a Lynx Studio HILO).
I haven't really read anything about the PAW5000. Can't wait to see your impressions :)


For $200, the X3ii seems to be a pretty good value. I'll be reviewing the X5ii in the coming month.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: tiohn on July 16, 2015, 12:46:30 PM
I have an X3ii that I like well enough. At the price point, it's pretty hard to beat. The UI is mediocre; not great but not horrible. Build quality is solid. SQ-wise, it's definitely better than the X1, but I don't have anything fancier to compare it against. I'd be surprised if the X5ii is significantly better.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: briskly on July 16, 2015, 01:00:35 PM
I have both DAPs in my office for a few more days. If you're interested, I will be publishing loaded and unloaded RMAA and square wave results tomorrow.
How much current can it put out before it starts spewing major amounts of distortion? AK380 doesn't seem to handle full output well into a 32 ohm headphone, at least. link (http://www.seeko.co.kr/zboard4/zboard.php?id=m_device&page=1&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=27)
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: ohm-image on July 16, 2015, 01:08:52 PM
How much current can it put out before it starts spewing major amounts of distortion? AK380 doesn't seem to handle full output well into a 32 ohm headphone, at least. link (http://www.seeko.co.kr/zboard4/zboard.php?id=m_device&page=1&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=27)

I don't see the link showing it running loads, unless my Korean is just bad. But I don't actually have the gear here to measure current, just a nice ADC and RMAA and square waves. Amateur stuff. If I had the dosh for a real audio analyser, I'd jump for it.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: briskly on July 16, 2015, 01:33:09 PM
My Korean isn't up to scratch either, but it's supposed to be at the bottom of the page in English. The load is a real headphone, the Sennheiser MX400. With a multimeter on hand you should be able to figure out current if you can test loads.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: ohm-image on July 16, 2015, 01:55:42 PM
My Korean isn't up to scratch either, but it's supposed to be at the bottom of the page in English. The load is a real headphone, the Sennheiser MX400. With a multimeter on hand you should be able to figure out current if you can test loads.

I see it now. Hmmm. I don't have a multimeter on hand. It got lost in my move. I used to measure output impedance with it and a dummy load, but both are gone.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on July 16, 2015, 04:55:57 PM
They're in production now, it will probably take about four weeks to get them to market (packaging, shipping and customs).

Any word on improvements on ui lag?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on July 16, 2015, 11:07:03 PM
Pretty interesting numbers on 24bit versus Redbook on that X3.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: ohm-image on July 16, 2015, 11:48:51 PM
Pretty interesting numbers on 24bit versus Redbook on that X3.

Obviously, I'm not using a proper audio analyser, just a Lynx Studio LILO through an iMac. What is interesting in that RMAA result for 24-bit VS 16-bit for the X3? I was expecting it to put out higher numbers, but who knows. It could be that using an SD card introduces more noise. I'll retry it from the internal HD.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Hawaiiancerveza on August 03, 2015, 08:20:45 AM
Apparently the QP1R's power is now the same as the QP1.  But has anyone heard the updated versions of the QP1/R?  If so, does the 1R still sound warm vs the 1 having more space and air?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: drez on August 04, 2015, 04:45:06 AM
1-I hate the 240, 100, and anything mk2 so let's not go there. Total step backward IMHO. The Jr. (with and without ProEQ enabled is closer to sounding like the AK120mk1, which I thought was pretty good, if not expensive. However, the Jr. is a little less refined/smooth in the treble and bass presentation than the 120mk1, but close with a similar signature. I'd say the Jr. is almost like an AK120mk1 micro.

2-See above, I hate the 240 and it's not just because of price. Thin, dead, lifeless and unrefined. Total jip. Sounds no better than a $150 Fiio to me. Jr. is definitely above the ZX1 a bit. A whole class above? Some of that lack of refinement keeps me from going that far. However, the ZX2 is almost a class above the ZX1 which makes it above average to my sensibilities. That's a warmer yet acceptable technical performer.

So for me....100/120mk2<240=ZX1<Jr.<ZX2<120mk1<QP1<380<GO450+Leck+source<QP1+Leck<=GOv2+Leck+source.


I had same impression of the AK240.  Thin, dead, and lacking refinement.

For now I am using Sony ZX2 as that is the best I have come across so far, out of ZX2, Calyx M, AK240 and P1.  For me it has the best compromise of resolution, tonal density and refinement (it still bites from time to time.)

I'm not even going to try the Ak380 because the prices are just getting retarded.  Especially local Australian price.  It's over a months wages for me and about $500 more than Yggy...

QP1 might be interesting.  Price is still sort of acceptable. 

I'm not into using a separate amplifier.  For me portable needs to fit in my pocket and last all day without charging.  I already have too many devices that need charging...
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Jeff Y on August 04, 2015, 05:25:05 AM
I had same impression of the AK240.  Thin, dead, and lacking refinement.

For now I am using Sony ZX2 as that is the best I have come across so far, out of ZX2, Calyx M, AK240 and P1.  For me it has the best compromise of resolution, tonal density and refinement (it still bites from time to time.)

I'm not even going to try the Ak380 because the prices are just getting retarded.  Especially local Australian price.  It's over a months wages for me and about $500 more than Yggy...

QP1 might be interesting.  Price is still sort of acceptable. 

I'm not into using a separate amplifier.  For me portable needs to fit in my pocket and last all day without charging.  I already have too many devices that need charging...

Calyx M's new firmware is supposed to make it sound much nicer according to many people. Ever tried it out?
As much as I like M'm big screen, its 4 hour battery life is just... sad.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: ohm-image on August 04, 2015, 05:54:08 AM
Calyx M's new firmware is supposed to make it sound much nicer according to many people. Ever tried it out?
As much as I like M'm big screen, its 4 hour battery life is just... sad.

Yeah, a portable with battery life of only 4 hours... poor. If I can't listen for at least 12 hours I won't bother.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: drez on August 04, 2015, 06:14:58 AM
Calyx M's new firmware is supposed to make it sound much nicer according to many people. Ever tried it out?
As much as I like M'm big screen, its 4 hour battery life is just... sad.

I didn't try the new firmware - is it meant to be more resolving? 

Yep 4 hours battery life is a PITA.  I think though this is due to class A amplification.  Also the Calyx M is huge.  Still if it sounded overall better than the ZX2 I would give it a second shot.  I'm still trying to sell it.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Hifi01170 on August 04, 2015, 08:21:26 AM
Have been reading "positive" reviews on the other site about how the Calyx sounds better with the firmware update.
I think it could be worth a try before selling your gear!

But it is true that 4 hours of battery life sucks!
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on August 04, 2015, 02:55:29 PM
Yeah, a portable with battery life of only 4 hours... poor. If I can't listen for at least 12 hours I won't bother.

I think 8 hrs is a good target especially for the stuff we want in daps. 
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Jeff Y on August 04, 2015, 04:24:02 PM
I didn't try the new firmware - is it meant to be more resolving? 

Yep 4 hours battery life is a PITA.  I think though this is due to class A amplification.  Also the Calyx M is huge.  Still if it sounded overall better than the ZX2 I would give it a second shot.  I'm still trying to sell it.
I saw someone say the new firmware makes him prefer the M over the AK380 but I don't know what the AK380 sounds like so I can't comment on that. Also I have no idea what about the sound improves but I've seen lots of positive feedback so I think it's worth a try.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: ohm-image on August 04, 2015, 10:59:04 PM
I think 8 hrs is a good target especially for the stuff we want in daps. 

Honestly, 12 should be minimum. Even the original AK100 nailed 14-16 hours. It wasn't perfect, but it nailed a few important specs.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Julian67 on August 05, 2015, 12:26:43 AM
Honestly, 12 should be minimum.

I don't think even 12 is enough.  Opinions aside, the battery life of current DAPs is a step backward from what was normal for 10 years.  iPod Classic? Between 20 and 30 hours.  iRiver H100/300 series?  15 hours on original battery and 25 to 30 on easily fitted replacement.  Rockboxed Sansa Fuze+? 25 to 30 hours for FLAC or Vorbis.

My FiiO E7 DAC/Amp claims 80 hours.  It's a bit older now but I think between 40 and 60 when used just as an amp is realistic and maybe between 20 and 30(??? guessing) when used as DAC/Amp (with USB charging disabled).  I use it with my iRiver H140 so I can pretty much guarantee 25 hours between charges for the combo.  When I use it as a DAC/Amp with my Galaxy Note II LTE I get between 12 and 24 hours before the Note needs a battery swap.

I sometimes think maybe I should replace my 10+ years old H140 but...but...but...  I just can't live with a dedicated audio player that quits at 12 or 15 hours and can't even understand or display composer or comment tags.  I don't really need another DAC and if I do need yet another occasional thingy hanging out of my rarely used laptop's USB I'll spend £25 on a hifimediy, not £300 - £1000 on a FiiO/iBasso/A+K.

I appreciate 12 hours battery life is not a disaster but it truly is a regular, repeating pain in the you-know-what, and just the kind of thing that leads to a person putting the device in a drawer and just using their smartphone instead.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: ohm-image on August 05, 2015, 12:28:07 AM
I don't think even 12 is enough.  Opinions aside, the battery life of current DAPs is a step backward from what was normal for 10 years.  iPod Classic? Between 20 and 30 hours.  iRiver H100/300 series?  15 hours on original battery and 25 to 30 on easily fitted replacement.  Rockboxed Sansa Fuze+? 25 to 30 hours for FLAC or Vorbis.

My FiiO E7 DAC/Amp claims 80 hours.  It's a bit older now but I think between 40 and 60 when used just as an amp is realistic and maybe between 20 and 30(??? guessing) when used as DAC/Amp (with USB charging disabled).  I use it with my iRiver H140 so I can pretty much guarantee 25 hours between charges for the combo.  When I use it as a DAC/Amp with my Galaxy Note II LTE I get between 12 and 24 hours before the Note needs a battery swap.

I sometimes think maybe I should replace my 10+ years old H140 but...but...but...  I just can't live with a dedicated audio player that quits at 12 or 15 hours and can't even understand or display composer or comment tags.  I don't really need another DAC and if I do need yet another occasional thingy hanging out of my rarely used laptop's USB I'll spend £25 on a hifimediy, not £300 - £1000 on a FiiO/iBasso/A+K.

I appreciate 12 hours battery life is not a disaster but it truly is a regular, repeating pain in the you-know-what, and just the kind of thing that leads to a person putting the device in a drawer and just using their smartphone instead.

I agree. But since audiophiles are getting used to really really bad battery life, I compromised by saying 12 minimum. And to be honest, I have never listened longer than 8 in a day, but being limited to 12, or less, is ridiculous, especially if you don't or can't access the mains.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: maverickronin on August 05, 2015, 12:39:50 AM
I agree. But since audiophiles are getting used to really really bad battery life, I compromised by saying 12 minimum. And to be honest, I have never listened longer than 8 in a day, but being limited to 12, or less, is ridiculous, especially if you don't or can't access the mains.

Now that USB battery packs/chargers are a common piece of consumer electronics that you can buy at brick and mortar stores instead of something that you have to hack together with a bunch of NiMH batteries and the plug chopped of a $25 proprietary charger there's even less incentive for manufacturers to worry about battery life these days.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: anetode on August 05, 2015, 12:51:54 AM
You can't have it both ways - the audiophile market demands Class A bias and computationally expensive processing. Switch back to all-in-one CODEC chips with built-in filters which put out sub-100mw into 32ohms and a rockboxesque text-based GUI and the 3000mAh battery you can currently find on the high end FiiO or A&K players would power that thing for days.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: maverickronin on August 05, 2015, 12:58:04 AM
I with they'd go back to B/W LCD screens that you actually read in direct sunlight.  That would buy a class A amp circuit right there...
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Julian67 on August 05, 2015, 01:00:24 AM
I with they'd go back to B/W LCD screens that you actually read in direct sunlight.  That would buy a class A amp circuit right there...

i sink eye luurf yoo.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Griffon on August 05, 2015, 01:03:15 AM
I with they'd go back to B/W LCD screens that you actually read in direct sunlight.  That would buy a class A amp circuit right there...

Yeah I'd add that album artworks, lyrics, and touchscreen are just unnecessary features. Genre, artist, album, song titles, playlists, run-time and browse-by-folder features under a black-and-white screen can make me call it a day.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Anaxilus on August 05, 2015, 01:44:27 AM
I with they'd go back to B/W LCD screens that you actually read in direct sunlight.  That would buy a class A amp circuit right there...

How about like Yota phone's EPD (Electronic Paper) screen? I could roll with that.

https://yotaphone.com/gb-en/#techspec
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Julian67 on August 05, 2015, 02:05:54 AM
Yeah I'd add that album artworks, lyrics, and touchscreen are just unnecessary features. Genre, artist, album, song titles, playlists, run-time and browse-by-folder features under a black-and-white screen can make me call it a day.

iRiver H140 +Rockbox (+ high capacity SSD + big battery - all fits in the case) and line out to modern pocket headphone amp:  DAP heaven (so long as you can't hear the difference, using IEMs, between 44100 and "Hi Res").

Come to think of it, it can do lyrics.  Also composer tag, comment tag, any non-DRM'd audio file format you will ever encounter, choice of database or file tree navigation (or both as you prefer).  Headphone Out/Line Out/Optical Out.  Metal case easily disassembled and reassembled.

Come back 2003, we need you.  Don't bring your earbuds.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: audiofrk on August 05, 2015, 02:35:05 AM
Honestly, 12 should be minimum. Even the original AK100 nailed 14-16 hours. It wasn't perfect, but it nailed a few important specs.

the ak100 did some things right: size and file type accessibility, but it failed were it mattered sound quality.  Thus it failed at its whole reason for existing.

it was slightly warmer then the ipod classic but you'd split hairs to tell the difference in sound.  I wouldn't mind 8-hrs battery life for true hifi sound out of a dap.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: ohm-image on August 05, 2015, 02:38:49 AM
I with they'd go back to B/W LCD screens that you actually read in direct sunlight.  That would buy a class A amp circuit right there...

I'm waiting for a direct successor to the original iPod shuffle. Yes, more storage, and less hiss.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Armaegis on August 05, 2015, 02:55:25 AM
I with they'd go back to B/W LCD screens that you actually read in direct sunlight.  That would buy a class A amp circuit right there...
If people can mod the original Playstation into "audiophile" cd players, I'm sure someone can turn the original gameboy into an audiophile DAP...

C'mon, I've still got mine sitting in the basement somewhere with battery pack and crazy accessories like a magnifying lens with built in light.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: zerodeefex on August 05, 2015, 04:22:04 AM
There is a screen technology created by JDI and used in the Pebble time that is fucking phenomenal. http://www.j-display.com/english/product/wearable.html

Looks sort of dim in regular light, but when you go outside, the screen looks beautifully bright. It's incredibly low power as well.

If I was creating a DAP with no touchscreen, this is the display technology I'd optimize for. Use a super low power front light for indoor use + a cheap light sensor to determine when you're indoor or outdoor and BAM, awesomely legible screen in all conditions, super low power.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: maverickronin on August 05, 2015, 02:14:36 PM
How about like Yota phone's EPD (Electronic Paper) screen? I could roll with that.

https://yotaphone.com/gb-en/#techspec

Refresh rate might be good enough.  Would have to see it in person though.  Still need to completely drop the super high res color screen that would make an excellent HDTV for pixies or something.

While I'm at it, also still waiting for the world to get over touch screens...
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: zerodeefex on August 05, 2015, 05:39:31 PM
Refresh rate might be good enough.  Would have to see it in person though.  Still need to completely drop the super high res color screen that would make an excellent HDTV for pixies or something.

While I'm at it, also still waiting for the world to get over touch screens...


Have one on my desk at work.

It's pretty slow. The new paperwhite is definitely WAY faster.
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: maverickronin on August 05, 2015, 05:56:10 PM
Have one on my desk at work.

It's pretty slow. The new paperwhite is definitely WAY faster.

I have an older paper white.

Are there any eink screens as fast as lcds?
Title: Re: Best DAP in terms of audio quality?
Post by: Judeus on August 22, 2015, 05:26:56 PM
Cayin c5, aune m2,  ibasso dx80, fiio x7, questyle qp1r,  hm802u


All new daps,  so many products..

I like the go v2+ but i dont wanna pair it with my phone to inconvenient.  Really wanna just get a dap...