CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Marvey on June 21, 2012, 07:34:11 AM

Title: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Marvey on June 21, 2012, 07:34:11 AM
Sony MDR-V6 and MDR7506 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 and MDR7506 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: maverickronin on June 21, 2012, 08:26:24 AM
WTF is up with the bass?  Does it really sound like that?
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 and MDR7506 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: rhythmdevils on June 21, 2012, 04:52:17 PM
In my very short experience with them, yes. 
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 and MDR7506 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Marvey on June 21, 2012, 05:09:16 PM
With certain headphones, I'm starting a new trend of just taking measurements and not bothering to listen to them. I did listen to them for a few seconds, and my only thought was "odd". I've since erased all other memories of that occasion.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 and MDR7506 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Questhate on June 21, 2012, 05:16:50 PM
Yeah, these graphs look about right. The ridges at 5K and 10K bothered me over time. I was used to them, so Grados weren't that bad to me when I first got into this hobby.

These were my daily headphones for about 3 years while I was in college. Once I got into other headphones I stopped listening to these. I busted them out for an evening a couple of months ago, and my reaction was like purrins -- "odd".
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 and MDR7506 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Anaxilus. on June 21, 2012, 06:01:43 PM
Looks like Diffuse Field gone wrong.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 and MDR7506 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: rhythmdevils on June 21, 2012, 06:15:12 PM
I remember them sounding thin and bright and there was other weirdness too but I coudn't get too flowery without another listen. 

It seems that a dip around 200hz or a bit higher is responsible for a lack of warmth in a lot of phones. 
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 and MDR7506 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: maverickronin on June 21, 2012, 11:03:25 PM
So why is that dip twice as much as on Tyll's HATS?

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDRV6.pdf

I'd doubt it's sample variation since the the V6 an 7506 are so close.

Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 and MDR7506 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Marvey on June 21, 2012, 11:34:20 PM
Maybe Sony changed the V6 at some point to be exactly the 7506? Tyll's V6 and the unit I measured look like totally different headphones. I know the measurement methods are different, but everything else looks different too.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 and MDR7506 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: rhythmdevils on June 22, 2012, 12:15:43 AM
Shouldn't you and Tyll show similar results below the upper midrange or midrange?  I was under the impression that you both have the same "ideal curve" ie flat until the upper mids, where he has an ideal curve and your ideal is still flat
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 and MDR7506 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: maverickronin on June 22, 2012, 12:44:14 AM
IDK if they changed but I'm pretty sure that the V6 and 7506 were supposed to either identical except for marketing or that the 7506 was a very slight tweak on the V6.

Are you doing anything to make sure the pads have some pressure against them like if you were actually wearing them?  That can cause ups and downs in the bass like that if the pads have the right consistancy though they're usually sharper.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 and MDR7506 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: anetode on June 22, 2012, 01:01:13 AM
The same odd bass deficit showed up on the last 1350 measurement. Could there be some measurement artifact that's unaccounted for?
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 and MDR7506 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Marvey on June 22, 2012, 01:12:29 AM
Let me check... interesting. I've got the same V-Moda's I measured last year for reference.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 and MDR7506 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: SanjiWatsuki on June 22, 2012, 01:32:34 AM
Besides that, we have a remarkably clean waterfall CSD for a closed-back headphone of that budget that isn't a T50RP mod. I'm reasonably impressed. Assuming it isn't invalidated by the test rig being a bit wacky right now.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 and MDR7506 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Marvey on June 22, 2012, 01:38:22 AM
Glad you guys caught this one. For the sealed headphones, the bass compensation curves were off about 5db. I need to recalculate the T5p, DT1350, and these. Recent change / bug in code which I didn't notice. This is what I get for not listening. Results will change a little bit, but the DT1350 is still going to look very different from the others.

EDIT: No wait... let me check again...

Yup comp curves. Will update results tonight.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 / MDR7506 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Marvey on June 22, 2012, 03:06:25 AM
hmm wierd... everytime i try to upload the proper FR graphs, it crashes the server.

OK - uploaded new measurements... Correct compensated graphs - squished and conformed pads in to max bass too!

It sounds much much worse than it measures!
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: maverickronin on June 22, 2012, 04:22:23 AM
Lulz...Now there's too much...

That's the big advantage to a proper HATS though.  You get something a lot closer the the seal they'd get on a real head.  I don't know if that would screw up the CSDs though...
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Marvey on June 22, 2012, 04:24:44 AM
That's that problem with the HATS, they screw up the CSDs. I would use the ear that Tyll gave me. Let me unsquish the pads.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: maverickronin on June 22, 2012, 04:42:04 AM
I think the head is more important than the ear.  You have to squish the pad just the right amount and putting it on something head shaped is the easiest way.

Otherwise you'll probably have to break out force gauges, weights, and crap...
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Marvey on June 22, 2012, 04:44:47 AM
I put a few rings of foam to lift up the headphone as if it were sitting on a ear. Then I applied the usual compensating functions. This looks better. I noted that if I press down on my ears, then I get the bass. This is definitely a tough one. Make you appreciate how smart Sennheiser has always been with their non-squishy pads, but still comfy pads of fairly large circumference.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: maverickronin on June 22, 2012, 05:03:54 AM
Looks more like Tyll's now.

I don't know how your rig is set up so it might not be physically possible but setting up something head sized on the opposite side of the coupler so the headband can provide the right amount of force would simplify the process.

Also HD650 pad effect:

http://sonove.angry.jp/HD650_Pad_effect.html
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Marvey on June 22, 2012, 05:13:06 AM
Yeah, that's why I do. There is something opposite to simulate the size of a head for clamping. Generally sealed headphones are really tough to measure in the bass because the pressure is so dependent upon the seal. Same goes for most planars, because when you think about it, they are really closed headphones in a way.


LOL, you should see how Grados measure with new pads and disintegrating pads.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: maverickronin on June 22, 2012, 05:23:18 AM
Hmm...  Must be harder than I though if you've still got to go though all that to get a good measurement.  I was thinking that maybe you didn't because I can get some headphones I have around here to measure like they sound just laying them down over my creatology covered aluminum plate with a hole in it but other need the right amount of pressure on the pads.

Have you seen Tyll's video where he shows how he measures the FR on his rig?  He plays the 30hz square wave on headphone and watches the HATS' output on a 'scope and uses the square wave's shape to judge a proper fit on the HATS.  That might help but IDK if you can do that with the software you have though.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Marvey on June 22, 2012, 05:30:50 AM
Not really. The Sony is the odd one for several reasons. It's a closed headphone. It's pads neither rest over the ears or on top of the ears. It's sort of in between.

I've got several couplers. One lined with foam, another with foam/felt, another which is just foam, another free-air mounting apparatus, etc. The very open headphones are easy. Planars, Supra-aural sealed, sealed etc. require use of different combinations of couplers with various averaging and compensation techniques, etc.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: maverickronin on June 22, 2012, 05:38:54 AM
Interesting system you've got there...

I guess you're gonna actually have to go back to listening to all of them then huh?

 8)
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Marvey on June 22, 2012, 05:42:43 AM
Yeah. Admittedly I was lazy with the MDR-V6. That one really threw me in for a curveball because I didn't have a method or "profile" for it.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: maverickronin on June 22, 2012, 05:57:54 AM
So you've got the "closed, half-assed 'circumaural' with bouncy pads" coupler down pat now?

Oddly enough I think that's actually a serious question too...
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Marvey on June 22, 2012, 06:07:52 AM
At least I have one measurement profile or model for it now, which I didn't before. If you've ever wondered why I've hesitated from posting FR graphs until fairly recently... now you know why.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: maverickronin on June 22, 2012, 06:30:31 AM
Sounds like you're getting better all the time.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: anetode on June 23, 2012, 05:21:47 AM
Could you please post the compensated 1350 graph?
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Marvey on June 23, 2012, 05:34:06 AM
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,167.msg1618.html#msg1618 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,167.msg1618.html#msg1618)
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: rhythmdevils on June 23, 2012, 05:56:12 AM
Sounds like you're getting better all the time.

Oh no.  When I read this I thought of Philips.  I am brainwashed.   :'(
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: anetode on July 05, 2012, 08:00:43 PM
Looking back on them, the v6's are a good deal at 60. I decided to go for the v6s to sample the earliest of the bunch, as they set the pace for the subsequent 7506&etc. Although i would not be surprised if the design has been tweaked in the decades these have been available. Sony experimented with a healthy variety of diaphragm materials in this series, among other changes.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: namaiki on September 13, 2013, 03:55:10 PM
The measurements for these don't look too bad, but listening to these headphones gives me a headache. Not sure if it's the sound or the pressure on my ears/head.

I assume/hope that mine were genuine MDR-V6s as I bought from an "authorised Sony dealer" store.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: OJneg on September 13, 2013, 06:19:15 PM
The measurements for these don't look too bad, but listening to these headphones gives me a headache. Not sure if it's the sound or the pressure on my ears/head.

I assume/hope that mine were genuine MDR-V6s as I bought from an "authorised Sony dealer" store.

I think it's the upward tilt. I can't stand headphones that do that. I got rid of mine rather quickly.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Solderdude on September 14, 2013, 06:54:47 AM
The measurements for these don't look too bad, but listening to these headphones gives me a headache. Not sure if it's the sound or the pressure on my ears/head.

I assume/hope that mine were genuine MDR-V6s as I bought from an "authorised Sony dealer" store.

I think it's the upward tilt. I can't stand headphones that do that. I got rid of mine rather quickly.

I think so too.
Never really used the 7506 either.
They could be used as a monitoring headphone though, I thought that's what they were intended for. Not for hifi listening or to make a final mix on.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: OJneg on September 15, 2013, 06:08:23 AM
I think so too.
Never really used the 7506 either.
They could be used as a monitoring headphone though, I thought that's what they were intended for. Not for hifi listening or to make a final mix on.

People always say that, but I have to ask...is there anything in particular that makes this a good monitoring headphone? Outside of the fact that it's fairly cheap, durable and made by Sony? So many people have called this headphone a "neutral" reference but I never found it to be particularly neutral or transparent or resolving. Maybe I just don't get it. I feel like the only reason this headphone is considered a studio standard is because it was first to the game and professionals are just used to using it.

People also call the K701 "neutral" and while it does have a bit more of those listed qualities, it's still a poor (and unnatural) sounding headphone IMO. :vomit: I actually found the Sony to be more acceptable. I think I have an irrational hatred for the K701; something about it just rubs me the wrong way.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Solderdude on September 15, 2013, 08:58:02 AM
People always say that, but I have to ask...is there anything in particular that makes this a good monitoring headphone?

a LOT of headphones can be used for monitoring or listening to a single instrument.  What makes this one stand out is the upwards tilt as opposed to the downwards slope we see in 'hifi phones'. Because of this harmonics are heard a bit louder ( but not too much as in unrealistic) and these contain the 'nuances' that instrumentalists hear themselves a bit louder than the casual audience listener because they are in very close proximity to the instrument in question.
For this reason it is quite liked by studio folks because it highlights distortion and nuances and is what they are quite weary off.
Granted also the brand name may be a very big part of it being successful in studios.

So many people have called this headphone a "neutral" reference but I never found it to be particularly neutral or transparent or resolving. Maybe I just don't get it.

People call many things 'neutral'. 
The V6 isn't neutral at all nor resolving it is just bright-ish, some will like, some won't.
If you want neutral HD600 fits the bill best, but it isn't closed which may be needed in case of making recordings.

Owned the K701 for a while, couldn't get on with it so it went.
Not a neutral phone either but can understand why many feel it is.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: lmswjm on September 15, 2013, 12:57:45 PM
I use this phone occasionally to monitor my bass playing for recording purposes. Basically if I can get my playing listenable on these things, the recording will sound good on pretty much anything. Even cheap Grados sound smoother than these.

The peaks seem to highlight problem areas for me. Frequencies that represent finger and fret noises specifically seem boosted.

I imagine that harsh recordings on these would get terrorists to give up their darkest plans in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Armaegis on September 26, 2013, 05:24:26 PM
The best V6 I ever heard was an old beat up pair where the inner stitching of the pads had worn off, leaving the foam exposed. That probably sucked up some of that treble energy (which I never thought was that bad to begin with actually; certainly not as high as the plots seem to indicate).
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Deep Funk on December 09, 2013, 02:45:38 AM
This headphone gave me strange headaches. I think it is a closed headphone thing. It was my first headphone and I was a loud listener because I was used to cheap earphones which quickly changed...

The CD900 ST is the one to have. It is still a bright Sony though.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Rabbit on December 10, 2013, 05:15:09 PM
I find that the sound snaps into focus at lower volumes than many other headphones. Once  you adjust to that top end, many others sound really 'dull' by comparison as well. I eq the top slightly and they sound a little more like a hi fi headphone, but as is, they are great for monitoring problems in that they do seal quite well and they really do pick out high frequency noise/etc.

I don't actually mind them too much tbh. They don't have really low bass but once the treble is a little more controlled, they're ok at home and great for working with in order to pick out problems which is why I guess they are more of a monitoring type headphone.

I also think that some associate 'monitoring' headphone with 'quality' headphone. My own view is that a monitoring headphone is designed for a purpose in mind rather than a general listening headphone which is why many perhaps find it a bit in yer face!!
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Deep Funk on December 10, 2013, 06:24:08 PM
An amplifier and a lower volume made a difference. AKG and Sennheiser proved they could make pleasant sounding 'studio' headphones. The DT250-250 also sounds pleasant yet detailed enough for a critical listen.

Sony studio headphones I had were either bright or harsh sounding. The CD1700 I once had though did sound smooth yet detailed.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: OJneg on December 10, 2013, 06:27:57 PM
Interesting that more than a few people reported getting a headache from listening to these. I did so myself.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Deep Funk on December 10, 2013, 06:32:48 PM
It is strange. The V6 was not even uncomfortable. 
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: EraserXIV on July 12, 2014, 02:48:19 AM
After reading some comments about Sony possibly modifying the V6 over the years, I dug out my pair which were purchased in the late 80s. Pretty much in line with what people are saying here, the treble can be piercing, not much in the way of low bass. Something about is 'odd' can't really put my finger on it, sounds plasticky? I'm not sure what to call it. Not very enjoyable on most of the few albums I tried it with, namely Muse's '2nd Law' and Mumford and Son's 'Babel'.

It did do a decent job with Diana Krall's 'Live in Paris' and some other well recorded jazz albums. Maybe that's why they are used as "studio" monitors because if there's any bit of noise or harshness in the track, you will not enjoy it. Back to the closet they go.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: EraserXIV on July 13, 2014, 02:51:24 AM
Dug them out of the closet again because I was bored. I threw some Brainwavz HM5 pads on them and threw in a set of circular dampening foams I had from another set of earpads (picture something like the MrSpeaker Dog Treats).

Much better now, listenable; I could use these in a pinch. The edge is taken off of the treble a bit and it seems the pleather HM5 pads have helped fill in the low end and low mids. That odd 'plastic' sound still rears its head on some tracks, but not as often. I've also found that listening to them at lower volumes than I would typically listen have produced much better results (I think this was also mentioned earlier in this thread); everything sounds more natural. I think the issue with these is since they lack low bass, you are tempted to turn up the volume to compensate, and that's when the highs get sibilant and unbearable.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Deep Funk on July 13, 2014, 06:42:29 AM
It was often reported that the DT250 velour ear pads had a good effect on the V6. Also apparently you can fill the cups with absorbent material to make the sound fuller.

Things is, the V6 gave me headaches due to its sound. I would not recommend this headphones without including, "can sound harsh and bright, mind the volume". I just detest Sony for making this headphone sound the way it can sound. Sony knew better knowing Sony did know how to make good headphone drivers before the MDR-series.

The old Sony DR-5 sounded like a K701 without glare. Just saying...
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: EraserXIV on July 13, 2014, 04:20:33 PM
It was often reported that the DT250 velour ear pads had a good effect on the V6. Also apparently you can fill the cups with absorbent material to make the sound fuller.

Things is, the V6 gave me headaches due to its sound. I would not recommend this headphones without including, "can sound harsh and bright, mind the volume". I just detest Sony for making this headphone sound the way it can sound. Sony knew better knowing Sony did know how to make good headphone drivers before the MDR-series.

The old Sony DR-5 sounded like a K701 without glare. Just saying...

I remember reading about the filling the cups mod back in the day, never got around to doing it, but could see it helping as it did similar things to the Denon Dx000 series when the modding scene was pretty active for those. I did try the DT250 pads at some point in the past and remember it not changing the sound much but only changing the comfort.

I'm okay with how it sounds now with the Brainwavz HM5 pads and the felt discs inside. I might toy around with adding another Doggie Treat to tame the highs a bit more when my Alpha Dog comes back. I'll report back when I get a chance to do that. The drivers themselves are pretty fast and seem to be capable of more than Sony has extracted from them in the current stock V6 form. I could see them benefiting from an improved enclosure a la the T50rp:Alpha Dogs, but the ceiling is likely much lower for these and may not be worth the time or money.

They probably still won't get much head-time at home competing with the Alpha Dogs, HD800, and MA900, but could see myself using it when I'm outside as a change of pace from my IEMs. I'd call it a success as they were collecting dust in my closet so any use is a win in my book.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: donunus on September 15, 2014, 11:46:50 AM
Maybe Sony changed the V6 at some point to be exactly the 7506? Tyll's V6 and the unit I measured look like totally different headphones. I know the measurement methods are different, but everything else looks different too.
Is it possible you may have gotten a fake v6? there are too many v6 fakes floating around
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: AllanMarcus on November 16, 2014, 08:13:35 AM
I got the MDR-V6's as a graduation gift the early 90s, so I know mine are real :-) If you want to measure a really old pair, let me know. I have replaced the pads with EDT250 pads, but I also have Sony pads.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: EraserXIV on April 04, 2015, 07:10:57 PM
Much better now.

(http://i.imgur.com/LIq4MP9l.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Bill-p on April 04, 2015, 08:22:47 PM
That's very interesting! I should get some acoustic foam soon to play around with.

If you haven't tried dining tissue/napkin in front of the driver, I think... they're worth a try. I dropped the treble of my DT770 that way.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: EraserXIV on April 04, 2015, 08:42:08 PM
I was thinking of doing the dining tissue mod, it seems ZMF uses that for his mods, as I have the MDR-V6 right now there is still considerable treble glare that I would like smoothed out. What kind of dining tissue did you use?
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Bill-p on April 05, 2015, 12:27:34 AM
It's the Bounty paper towels. I take a huge chunk and block the entire driver with it. Seems to have worked with 2 headphones so far with the only side effect being smoother treble. :)p1
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: EraserXIV on April 05, 2015, 02:46:04 AM
Huge chunk? I was just thinking of using one sheet lol
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: Bill-p on April 05, 2015, 02:47:36 AM
I mean I block the entire driver with a really big sheet. One layer of the thing.

The DT770, on the hand, needs like... 3 layers, with felt on top, since its treble is 12dB too high! That seems to have calmed it down to a reasonable level.
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: EraserXIV on April 05, 2015, 03:41:58 AM
Ah I see I will do it later tonight, I'll report back with my findings and some pictures
Title: Re: Sony MDR-V6 Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plots
Post by: EraserXIV on April 05, 2015, 07:14:47 AM
Put a sheet of the paper towel underneath the creatology foam and ended up actually using 2 other sheets for a total of 3 layers. The foam I am using is half the width of the one in the second picture. Really smoothed out the peaky highs without causing the mids to become recessed, which is what I was afraid of. The tonal balance of the MDR-V6 is much better now and I've been listening to it all night. I was tempted to buy the massdrop AKG K553 but I am happy with what the MDR-V6 offers now. The drivers in the MDR-V6 are pretty fast and the bass has good impact with the creatology foam in. The mids pretty neutral, they aren't recessed or too forward. I am still using the HM5 pads on them.

To be honest, I'm actually quite impressed with them now. It seems the drivers are not being used to their full potential and I'm sure there is even more we can squeeze from them. They're still on my head and I haven't been tempted to reach for my HD800, K7XX, DT880, or Blackwoods.

(http://i.imgur.com/pIF3Twdl.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/BeFqd6wl.jpg)