CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

Lobby => Speakers => Topic started by: ultrabike on May 29, 2015, 06:12:00 AM

Title: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: ultrabike on May 29, 2015, 06:12:00 AM
So I wanted something that could do a half decent job playing stuffs out of an iPhone or so originally. Went to Best Buy and the "dock" speakers department did not do much for me (some where north of $200, and where not really smallish anyway). So I started thinking about those JBL 305 monitors and went to Guitar Center (since OJ mentioned they had some to audition) to check things out.

A single JBL 305 for $130 (Amazon) would hand any of the boomboxes or "dock" speakers their butts... for about the same or less. However, right next to the JBLs there were the Rokit KRK something something, Yamaha HS8s, Yamaha HS5s, M-Audio BX5s, Tannoy Reveal 402s, Mackie MR5mk3s, Pre-sonus E8s, Pre-sonus E5s and so forth. So I gave them a quick listen. Interestingly, the setup for all of these awesome sauce monitors involved some Focusrite Scarlett stuffs along with a Mac with pretty decent songs I was familiar with.

Bestest for me came the JBL305s and the Mackies. Rokit sucked, Yamies where not bad but a little bit bright (not much really), M-Audio maybe a little boxy, Tannoy bright, Pre-sonus boxy. All actually were not too bad, except the Rokits that were WTF material (YMMV).

The JBLs were a little bit brighter than the Mackies, and in the end after going back an forth decided the Mackies were my preference. Dude tells me they were on sale for $120 and I got a pair.

Gave them a listen and found them extremely enjoyable. They would benefit from a sub, but I can live just fine w/o the sub for music. I found them pretty revealing, non-fatiguing, accurate, open, reasonable sweet spot, you name it. Sort of reminded me of my Senns.

The boxes are biggish, and might need to find stands and a decent location for them (wife also likes how they look but task at hand is to give them a non-eye-sore location in the house). These are definitively awesome.

Anyways, measurements:

Right

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=9937;image)

Left

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=9939;image)

These are NOT anechoic chamber measurements (actually just on top of a table next to the kitchen). Measurements are with the mic 1 meter away from tweeter, about 80 dB SPL (they can get much louder of course but kids are in bed), and 0 degrees. Walls and reflections will contribute to the response. But IMO not bad :boom:
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: Solderdude on May 29, 2015, 06:54:51 AM
Thanks for this.

I had been looking into cheap and small decent monitors (for next to the PC) lately as well and more or less decided to go for the JBL 305 based on yooboobs by Sonic Sense and this:
http://noaudiophile.com/JBL_LSR305/ (http://noaudiophile.com/JBL_LSR305/)

Here you can 'audition' all kinds of monitors and compare to the original signal as well:
http://www.sonicsense.com/resourcecenter/reviews/studio-monitors/studio-monitor-comparison (http://www.sonicsense.com/resourcecenter/reviews/studio-monitors/studio-monitor-comparison)


Comparisons:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E70NLxmOKJI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E70NLxmOKJI)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oFwIyxSKjY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oFwIyxSKjY)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrqfbiWSftM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrqfbiWSftM)

but this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YP95epYEPU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YP95epYEPU)  got me worried and think I can hear it on http://www.sonicsense.com/resourcecenter/reviews/studio-monitors/studio-monitor-comparison (http://www.sonicsense.com/resourcecenter/reviews/studio-monitors/studio-monitor-comparison) (scroll down and on the right you can select the monitors).
The Mackie doesn't do that and seems to be more fuller and pleasant in the treble but the 305 seems to have better clarity.
I am 'sensitive' to the 200Hz resonances so the 305 may bother me after a while so now will have to audition the 305 and Mackie in real life now.
They seem to be the only monitors that make (sonic) sense at this point.

Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: ultrabike on May 29, 2015, 07:02:47 AM
Yup. I took originally sonicsense reviews into strong consideration. And indeed it gives one a decent idea of what one may be dealing with. For example, the Rokit sounded awful in the sonicsense videos, and in real life.

The JBLs are pretty good IMO. I prefer the more smooth signature of the Mackies though. The 305s are more lively and open sounding. The Mackies bass is pretty awesome (for a ~5" woofer that is). They are both really good. They both don't diverge much from what I consider neutral.
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: Solderdude on May 29, 2015, 08:49:52 AM
Thanks for the feedback.
 
I expect to hear similar things when trying them out.
My interest has now shifted to MR5-mkIII  :)
As I don't move around behind the PC the waveguide (which seems to work very well) isn't really that needed.
Might be auditioning a Mackie this evening.
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: firev1 on May 29, 2015, 02:54:33 PM
Damn, Mackies were being sold down in my neck of the woods for cheaps for a while. I kinda regret not jumping on them. My friend got a new pair and had problems with monitor hum on one channel that only happened on warm up though. He shoot them out with Rokits and had the same general opinions.
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: ultrabike on May 29, 2015, 03:26:39 PM
I got lucky on my end. No hum so far with either. But if you happen to have a defective make sure you have a 30-day policy. Guitar Center seems to honor that.
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: Solderdude on May 29, 2015, 07:50:49 PM
So I listened to a few candidate speakers for quite a while using all sorts of music that was present.

The only 'cheapies' that sounded decent were indeed the LSR305 and MR5mk3
For most music my preference was for the JBL as it just sounded more clear/open especially with acoustic music.
Only when I heard music that I know well (was Sting in this case) it became obvious the Mackie sounded more pleasant and the JBL too midrangy.

If only there was a speaker right inbetween the JBL and Mackie at that price point ....

Then I (accidentally) switched to the Dynaudio BM12A (3x more expensive) and was temporarily reminded what was missing from the cheapies.
Switched back to the speakers I went for and switched of the demo and went home.

Had also tried lots of other speakers, big and small... Neuman, Focal, Genelec M-Audio, KRK, Yamaha the usual suspects ...
The smaller Dynaudios weren't bad but the difference with the JBL was small.
Nothing touched that big Dynaudio so I left .... a bit disappointed.

Still... both the JBL and Mackie were the best of the bunch in their price class.
I almost bought the JBL's as to me they sounded the most dynamic and clean.


Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: ultrabike on May 29, 2015, 08:22:21 PM
Yes the JBLs were moreopen and maybe more dynamic. You should have gone for those mang.
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: Solderdude on May 29, 2015, 08:33:34 PM
Maybe I will after all ... those darn Dynaudios ruined the audition though.

Maybe I will make something myself from the small Dali's Lektor 1's I have lying around somewhere.
Of course the easy way would be to simply buy the 305's  ... or the MR5's
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: ultrabike on May 29, 2015, 10:00:09 PM
Buy one speaker. Buy one of these or the such:

http://www.amazon.com/HomeSpot-NFC-Enabled-Bluetooth-Receiver-System/dp/B009OBCAW2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432936750&sr=8-1&keywords=bluetooth+receiver

Put it in the kitchen and call it your phone-boombox.
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: Deep Funk on May 30, 2015, 09:11:00 PM
Buy one speaker. Buy one of these or the such:

http://www.amazon.com/HomeSpot-NFC-Enabled-Bluetooth-Receiver-System/dp/B009OBCAW2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432936750&sr=8-1&keywords=bluetooth+receiver

Put it in the kitchen and call it your phone-boombox.

Logitech has a portable speaker range that can be surprisingly good with a clean audio source. When I bought my old speakers like you I went the to the pro-audio store, auditioned a few and picked the M-Audio BX5 at the time. Sometimes there are bargains in the old stock and you can get great sound for (very) reasonable prices.

In my current student set-up I have the Pico DAC feeding the signal to a low budget Logitech S715. Pretty decent sound for Youtube and Spotify.
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: ultrabike on May 31, 2015, 04:36:12 AM
Yup. Those are good. But for almost the same kind of kash you can get two Mackies with bigger drivers and even moar awesome sauce (problem is size though). You do loose some extras, and that is why I was also eyeing these (were on special for $170 something last week):

http://www.amazon.com/Presonus-C4-5BT-Powered-Speakers-Bluetooth/dp/B00NBOGPMY/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1433046810&sr=1-1-fkmr1&keywords=samson+c4.5+speakers

which besides Bluetooth include a Sub output. But still Mackies and JBLs sound better IMO.

Typically I find Altec Lansing to be not so good, but the Logitechs in general are K relative to their peers. Competitive to what Creative has. I would say my BA MM220s are in this class.
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: Solderdude on May 31, 2015, 03:55:11 PM
I replaced my previous PC speakers (Logitech X-230) speakers which only sounded decent with some EQ with (slightly modified) Dali Lektor 1's.

They are now actively filtered (small external amplifiers) and have modified the X230 speaker/volume control so it acts as a volume control only and made a filter that crosses the speakers to the X230 sub at around 100Hz.
The Dali's don't sound that good below 100Hz so was needed to make them shine.

Really pleased with that setup and is tonally closer to the Mackie than the JBL but more 'hifi' and smoother but not nearly as loud as those monitors (small amplifiers of just 20W were used)

(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz296/solderdude/PC%20setup_zps9twtvbum.jpg) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/solderdude/media/PC%20setup_zps9twtvbum.jpg.html)

Still can easily recommend both the Mackie and JBL.
The Lektor 1's are about the same price as the mentioned monitors but should add the price of the X230 + small amplifiers (home brew) + filters + time.
In that case the Mackie and JBL's are great value and sound only slightly less 'pleasant' than the Dali's.
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: ultrabike on May 31, 2015, 06:25:31 PM
That's a nice setup. Main problem I see with it though is the proximity to the walls.

The good thing is that those are front firing ports. On the other hand even the side walls gave the MR5mk3s some issues in the bass region. One of the reasons I'm giving some though on where to put mine.

BTW maybe later I'll add more discussion and thoughts about the Mackies relative to this JBL305 review: http://noaudiophile.com/JBL_LSR305/

May add some off axis measurements as well. We'll see how well the Mackies waveguide works (I think it's not too bad subjectively speaking).

I'm not very familiar with the higher end Mackies (HR824 and HR624), but from what I've been reading, the MR5/6/8s are tuned similarly and somewhat similar waveguide. There are quite a few differences though.
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: Solderdude on May 31, 2015, 09:10:41 PM
When auditioning the MR5 and 305 I walked to the left and right of the speaker and what was quite apparant was that the stereo image of the MR5 was more in the lows (as in mono type sound) where the treble had some 'phasing' effects when walking to the left and right. The amount of treble also changed slightly and the tonal balance differred when standing to the left or right.

All other speakers 'suffered' from the same effects in slightly more or less similar ways.

The 305 behaved VERY different. The tonal balance didn't change at all regardless of the position. It was more like panning the L/R button on the amp.
Also no phasing effects at all when moving the head. That waveguide really works extremely well. Didn't expect that and assumes it was marketting talk only.
It isn't, it really differs from other waveguides, even the well regarded Genelecs couldn't do the same.

I assumed the Genelecs would behave similar but they were between the 305 and other speakers in that regard.
I really liked those 305's BUT on some recordings I heard a 'peak' around 2-3kHz, mostly on a recording I knew well.
That, plus those darn Dynaudios decided it was time to leave.

Glad I did, after all as I am happy with these Dali's.

They are against a wall on the rear but as you said front firing. That gave me problems with the sound as with big bass the was literally a forcefull stream of air which (as they are pointed towards me) I felt in my eyes. Putting on the fronts solved that problem BUT ruined the treble response for me.
Solved that by covering the ports with loudspeaker cloth.

The speakers against the wall induced some 'honky' bass
Angling the speakers upwards improved that slightly.
Bass isn't the Lektor's strong point at all so decided to use a (very cheap) sub instead and filter off the bass actively.
Passive gives weird results because impedance is all over the place in that area because of the ports.
Problem solved.... nice clear and open sound.
The Sub works wonders but doesn'tgo below 35Hz, at least not convincingly.

I reckon the 305's and MR5's need room behind the speakers (which I haven't got) and would be better of on a mixing console with their rear ports.
So for me this solution works better....

The MR5's contains simple AB amps + trafo and linear power supply. Very service friendly.
The 305's is class D and has an SMPS and thus less easy to service or change something.

Ah.. the considerations.

Looking forward for more impressions / info on the MR5.
After all they were my number 2 choice.
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: smithj on June 02, 2015, 10:57:50 PM
In a desktop configuration, I don't think you're going to like the JBL LSR305.  Their main problem is that they make a pretty audible hiss (louder than other active studio monitors IMHO) when on that is not impacted by gain, connector type, etc.  Its something fairly difficult to notice in a store but the hissing definitely gets on my OCD nerves in a very quiet home environment. 
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: Solderdude on June 03, 2015, 04:59:08 AM
Excellent point... would annoy the hell out of me and indeed didn't check this in the music store which was crowded and had lots of ambient sounds...

UB.. How do those MR5 do on the hiss front ?
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: ultrabike on June 04, 2015, 07:57:46 AM
Well, so far no hiss bothering me actually. Quite happy so far.

Here is the "left" and "right" speaker measured again but with the mic and the speakers at the same location (to show driver/enclosure matching performance):

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=10025;image)

Conditions were: back wall close, no side walls, a bunch of crap to the left of the speakers, nothing to the right, 1 meter away, roughly 80 dB. Since speakers and mic are not exactly in the same location as when measured originally don't expect exactly the same results. Again, these are not anechoic chamber conditions.

Here are some more plots but at different angles:

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=10027;image)

Seems things are rolling off relatively gracefully with increasing horizontal angle even in my breakfast room.

So what happens if I put an ear to the mic?

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=10029;image)
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: OJneg on June 04, 2015, 05:10:03 PM
Extra energy at 5k bothersome? Are you listening completely on-axis?
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: ultrabike on June 04, 2015, 05:48:32 PM
Proly not. Just approximately. More than on-axis or not, I think those slight issues correspond more to room interactions and placement. Note original measurements in the first post don't have much of that. Measurements above might suggest a little brightish signature. It is not. By those standards the JBL305s would be banshees.

I'll try to do better measurements later today. Might run to Guitar Center and get meself a tripod and some speaker stands to do something moar proper.

Also, do not give the "ear" measurements any consideration. Those maybe used to demonstrate what would be recorded by a dummy head with mics in the ears (right-to-right and left-to-left channel w/o compensation).
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: OJneg on June 04, 2015, 06:06:02 PM
Broad elevation there seems to persist regardless. Won't sound bad, but should be noticeable compared to flatter-er references
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: ultrabike on June 04, 2015, 06:21:42 PM
Well... when I did the measurements at different angles I did not move the speaker, just the mic.

The speaker was on a table and I know the speaker interacts with the table in that frequency region (based on what I got when monkeying around with the speaker location around the table). I'll do more measurements later to show what I mean. As you noticed, these are not horrible aberrations, but do matter. So placement matters quite a bit if you want ruler flatness.

BTW, on the original post measurements I don't see the 5k extra energy on the "left" measurement (that one was done on a different table location).

A fair assesment would be on speaker stands.
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: RexAeterna on June 04, 2015, 08:00:27 PM
is it wooden table? i always use like felt/cotton/fabric/polyester blankets of reasonable thickness on my table due to standing wave issues and so forth. it does make a huge difference. there is a lot more interactions with the furniture and room then lot people think. if for measuring a lone stands might help if it's well away from the table but it still might interact in a way. it just depends on different types of factors in the matter.

Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: ultrabike on June 04, 2015, 08:11:48 PM
Yup. Its a solid wood and bare table.  I just got a set of stands and a mic tripod. Wiffey wanted me to get stands anyway. Will measure with those next.

My floors are also solid laminate which does a wonderful job at reflecting sound. Probably will still be somewhat close to furniture.

Still, I have a feeling that proper stands will improve things. Things are not that horrible anyway. Me ears likes. I proly can get a flattitude level 36 achievement with proper care, and if I can get the most of these monitors while keeping things visually pleasant, I'm happy.
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: ultrabike on June 05, 2015, 05:29:02 AM
Ok. Here is Table vs Stand. Stand does seem to help with the 5 khz hump there:

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=10034;image)

Red: Table / Blue: Stand

And here is 0 vs 45 degree (in the stand):

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=10036;image)

Red: 45 deg / Blue: 0 deg

Not bad IMO.
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: ultrabike on June 15, 2015, 06:26:24 AM
Alright, have settled this in my bedroom where they may have found a long term residence. After trimming the highs by -2dB (switch in the back of the speakers) this is what I get in my bedroom.

They get brighter and boomier in my room perhaps due to it being small. But not too bad IMO after the trimming adjustment:

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=10126;image)

Here are JBL305s measurements from nonaudiophile for comparison purposes:

  (http://noaudiophile.com/JBL_LSR305/JBL_LSR_305_Random.jpg)

Now what I needs is a subs. Thinking about HSU. Perhaps just another Pioneer since this is on a second floor and furniture resonates and starts introducing distortion that I know is not coming from the speakers.

As far as the boominess, I could partially block the ports to reduce it, but so far it doesn't bother me much. Maybe later.
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: ultrabike on June 16, 2015, 04:14:44 PM
Well, plugging the port solved the boom problem and made things flat. Unfortunately the port is also a vent for the amp and it the plate starts to get warm if the port is obstructed. Manual also says to stay away from the port and let it breathe.

Before this, I only had speakers that did not go below 100 Hz on small rooms. Finding out how things get fudged up below 100 Hz on small rooms even with a 5" studio monitor. No wonder speakers like the Revel Salon 2 sounded like utter crap at T.H.E. show.

Might have to get an equalizer since eventually I might get a sub there. Thinking of something commesurable to the investment. Say maybe a one of those Behringer Ultragraph thingies that include subwoofer cross-over for $150... Any ideas guys?
Title: Re: Mackie MR5 mk3s
Post by: ultrabike on September 21, 2015, 03:39:26 AM
So I got a MiniDSP which fixes things pretty neatly (BTW the miniDSP thingy works pretty good). However, went back to Guitar Center w wife and she ended up liking more the JBL305 styling.

A problem with these Mackies is that they don't play very loud. The JBLs do. Furthermore, off axis response might be better with the JBLs.

So, OJ and folks were right. I might be JBL305 dude. Might have to put these on sale, but don't have the boxes. Therefore might have to go local.

These are not bad at all though. Second bestest on what I heard @ Guitar Center around the same price.