CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Marvey on August 24, 2012, 08:08:32 AM

Title: HD650 Redux
Post by: Marvey on August 24, 2012, 08:08:32 AM
Listening to HD650 from the HeadRoom Chest. These are the ones that Anax said sounded veiled. And they do, which is wierd. I did not think Anetode's (nor MacKat's) HD650s sounded this way, and I know my rig has not changed that much since then. They sound a little bit better on the Dynahi than the BA, but really not by much.

I'll measure these and see what happens. The bassy is muddy on these. HD will be interesting.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: ujamerstand on August 24, 2012, 08:11:21 AM
Do they have the silver screen or the black screen?
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: grev on August 24, 2012, 08:29:31 AM
I made sure mine is the silver screen version before I purchased them second hand, and they're just slow, not veiled, only the black drivers ones are considered veiled, I think.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Marvey on August 24, 2012, 08:29:37 AM
black
Title: Re: HD650 Redux Frequency Response and CSD Waterfall Plot
Post by: Marvey on August 24, 2012, 08:40:53 AM
Wow. I never expected this. They measure quite differently from Anetode's pair. BTW - the pads are deformed differently - probably accounts for the frequency response differences in the treble.

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=469.0;attach=2116;image)
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Deep Funk on August 24, 2012, 08:43:35 AM
That's quite flat. Maybe you are lucky...
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: olor1n on August 24, 2012, 08:45:11 AM
Interesting. I owned the silver HD650 and always found descriptions of veil perplexing. Unit variation or is there really something to this black vs silver screen urban myth?
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: CEE TEE on August 24, 2012, 08:45:47 AM
@Uzi's 650 even had a <very> slight "bit o' air" over Mackat's pair (I thought). 


Two pairs over 2 yrs that I have heard (had 2 weeks with both 600/650 simultaneously plugged into DAC1 for A/B) seemed veiled

But that was during my "Cretaceous Grado" phase... :)p14
Title: Re: HD650 Redux - Distortion Measurements
Post by: Marvey on August 24, 2012, 08:48:37 AM
For reference, Anetode's pair:  http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,40.msg195.html#msg195 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,40.msg195.html#msg195)

They sound better now that I've acclimated to their sound and cranked them up a little bit. Seems like there is a 3-4k emphasis (subjectively). Bass is still slow and it's veiled compared to the 'stats and HD800. I'll post the distortion measurements in a bit. (POSTED)


HD measurements with headphones at SPL/A 90db white noise.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Marvey on August 24, 2012, 08:55:33 AM
Looks like slightly high D3 (3rd order) in the bass to 200Hz. I don't like to see 3rd order over 0.1%
D2 is high below 40Hz. I like to see 2nd order < 1%

Compare HD to others (HD800, MS1, HE400). Bass distortion characteristics are similar to Grado, but I think Grado's elevated treble masks the bass distortion. EDIT: The rolled off bass of the Grado makes bass distortion less evident.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: ultrabike on August 24, 2012, 09:41:11 AM
It's not only the tremble. The bass also seems better extended... Also, while the distortion is similar to the MS1 in the bass, the mids and highs seem relatively clean...

I wonder if there is something to the claims that different HD650 have different drivers as well.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: TMRaven on August 24, 2012, 02:05:43 PM
I want that HD650.  My HD650 didn't have bass that extended.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Marvey on August 24, 2012, 04:20:49 PM
You sure? The extended bass is quite distorted.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: TMRaven on August 24, 2012, 04:34:20 PM
You might find it to be the same amount of distortion as the other HD650 you measured. At the end of the day I rather have a distorted sub-bass than completely no sub-bass.  The latter is why I did not keep my HD650.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: ujamerstand on August 24, 2012, 04:56:48 PM
Is Anetode's pair with black screen or silver? My own pair measures more similar to his in turns of FR, but mine has a black screen. Doesn't help that I had to replace the front cover, since the seller had lost them.

My pair's distortion measurements:
(http://www.guanmado.com/img/HD650-harmonic.png)

Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Tyll Hertsens on August 24, 2012, 11:06:57 PM
I'm getting a pair of current 600s from Sennheiser and will do a 600/650 review. I think overall these cans have gotten a bad rap. They're good (not great) and do very little wrong. It'd be great if Sennheiser put a little effort into that model---just tweeked it up a bit---and make a 680.

'Course maybe they just are tweeking it over time. They all do that, you know.

I remember when their factory burned down in Ireland. After a bit we were getting cans that looked different WRT the bits inside, and it changed a coupla times---I never looked into it hard at the time, had other shit to do.  Wouldn't be surprised if there were all sorts of odd ball versions out there.

Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Marvey on August 25, 2012, 02:30:23 AM
@ujamer: awesome. thanks for corroborating measurements.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: PelPix on August 25, 2012, 03:14:23 AM
I have a brand new model of the HD650 with a very recent manufacturing date (About 2 months ago?) and it's not dark at all.  I could send it in for measurement one of my days off if you'd like, Marv.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: CEE TEE on August 25, 2012, 06:05:13 AM
I have a brand new model of the HD650 with a very recent manufacturing date (About 2 months ago?) and it's not dark at all.  I could send it in for measurement one of my days off if you'd like, Marv.


That would be great- the 650's I just heard do not sound like the ones that I heard a while ago...
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: arcticears on August 30, 2012, 01:48:27 AM
I just received a pair of 650's two days ago.  They do not sound dark or veiled, I was quite surprised as they sound much better than what some have said.  So far I am quite pleased. I would not call them bright by any means but the treble is there and not over done.  Sub bass is there but could be stronger for my liking.  http://changstar.com//Smileys/akyhne/cheesy.gif
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: grev on August 30, 2012, 02:42:24 AM
I use the HD650 on the RX3 and L3 and it doesn't sound dark.  It's rather 'bassy' than 'dark'.

I think when you have enough voltage swing and current through it, it will become fine.  Mine is the silver version as stated.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Anaxilus. on August 30, 2012, 04:12:41 AM
I use the HD650 on the RX3 and L3 and it doesn't sound dark.  It's rather 'bassy' than 'dark'.

I think when you have enough voltage swing and current through it, it will become fine.  Mine is the silver version as stated.


I don't think voltage swing or current is a problem w/ either the Bryston BHA-1 running balanced or the Super 7 or BA.  We never did get to try it w/ the Mjolnir but that may have been a better 'synergy'.



Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: grev on August 30, 2012, 04:50:44 AM
^ Which version is yours?

Is this opening up a can of worms? D:
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: tdockweiler on November 26, 2012, 05:48:00 AM
I know this thread is old, but i'm really bored..doubt anyone will see this...

I got an HD-650 a week ago. Mainly due to having an ODAC now and I wanted to give it another chance. All the old pairs I had were very bloated in the mid-bass and didn't have enough treble for me. Strangely enough I liked them over the HD-600 for vocal oriented music.

This pair seems to be totally against the general consensus of what an HD-650 should sound like. It actually seems more neutral/balanced than my HD-600 and HD-580 (have both, i'm weird).

It's mid-bass doesn't stick out like a sore thumb and it has better low-bass extension than both by far. It's bass is nearly the same as my favorite DJ100. I'd say the bass is slightly elevated about neutral. Better controlled than that of the HD-600 somehow.

There is a part in the upper mids that sounds slightly forward. These don't seek to lack treble at all.

The soundstage is actually better than that of the HD-600. Not larger though (I think).

BTW I find the HD-580 better sounding than the HD-600. I think there's one other person here who thinks so too.

The HD-600 puts me to sleep, but the HD-650 is now one of my favorite headphones. Very strange..I previously preferred the 598 to the 580 and 600.

Another thing..this one is very revealing of my lower bit-rate tracks. I actually had to go back and re-rip a ton of stuff. My harsh and fatiguing tracks are a little easier on the ears though.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Cristello on November 26, 2012, 06:12:16 AM
if possible, would you be willing to send them either here or to Tyll @ IF?

I wonder if your previous experiences were based on A)bad QC in the early years, B)less-than-optimal damping that has since been fixed, or C)large amount of discussion and press influencing your impressions in a negative fashion?

would be interesting to see if ol' Sennheiser has sneaked a change past us...
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: fishski13 on November 26, 2012, 06:52:37 AM
I know this thread is old, but i'm really bored..doubt anyone will see this...

I got an HD-650 a week ago. Mainly due to having an ODAC now and I wanted to give it another chance. All the old pairs I had were very bloated in the mid-bass and didn't have enough treble for me. Strangely enough I liked them over the HD-600 for vocal oriented music.

This pair seems to be totally against the general consensus of what an HD-650 should sound like. It actually seems more neutral/balanced than my HD-600 and HD-580 (have both, i'm weird).

It's mid-bass doesn't stick out like a sore thumb and it has better low-bass extension than both by far. It's bass is nearly the same as my favorite DJ100. I'd say the bass is slightly elevated about neutral. Better controlled than that of the HD-600 somehow.

There is a part in the upper mids that sounds slightly forward. These don't seek to lack treble at all.

The soundstage is actually better than that of the HD-600. Not larger though (I think).

BTW I find the HD-580 better sounding than the HD-600. I think there's one other person here who thinks so too.

The HD-600 puts me to sleep, but the HD-650 is now one of my favorite headphones. Very strange..I previously preferred the 598 to the 580 and 600.

Another thing..this one is very revealing of my lower bit-rate tracks. I actually had to go back and re-rip a ton of stuff. My harsh and fatiguing tracks are a little easier on the ears though.

what was your source and amp when you owned the HD650 in the past?  since the ODAC designer has set the Benchmark DAC1 as a "benchmark", i can think of 5 HPs that would be a good fit with my BM DAC1 - the HD650 would be one of them.  while i still found the HD650 to be musically lacking, i found their FR balance to be quite neutral with excellent detail.  an easy pairing to recommend.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: HroĆ°ulf on November 26, 2012, 01:39:55 PM
My HD650 came to its own only after hooking them up to my Dynalo. Until then they had the dreaded midbass hump and very weak trebble.

I remember Boomana talking about the futility of talking about the HD600/650 headphones until they are properly amped. Now I fully understand what she meant by that.

Btw, I hate them paired with the Objective 2. Plenty of missing low end information and no musicality whatsoever.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: tdockweiler on November 26, 2012, 06:21:14 PM
I know this thread is old, but i'm really bored..doubt anyone will see this...

I got an HD-650 a week ago. Mainly due to having an ODAC now and I wanted to give it another chance. All the old pairs I had were very bloated in the mid-bass and didn't have enough treble for me. Strangely enough I liked them over the HD-600 for vocal oriented music.

This pair seems to be totally against the general consensus of what an HD-650 should sound like. It actually seems more neutral/balanced than my HD-600 and HD-580 (have both, i'm weird).

It's mid-bass doesn't stick out like a sore thumb and it has better low-bass extension than both by far. It's bass is nearly the same as my favorite DJ100. I'd say the bass is slightly elevated about neutral. Better controlled than that of the HD-600 somehow.

There is a part in the upper mids that sounds slightly forward. These don't seek to lack treble at all.

The soundstage is actually better than that of the HD-600. Not larger though (I think).

BTW I find the HD-580 better sounding than the HD-600. I think there's one other person here who thinks so too.

The HD-600 puts me to sleep, but the HD-650 is now one of my favorite headphones. Very strange..I previously preferred the 598 to the 580 and 600.

Another thing..this one is very revealing of my lower bit-rate tracks. I actually had to go back and re-rip a ton of stuff. My harsh and fatiguing tracks are a little easier on the ears though.

what was your source and amp when you owned the HD650 in the past?  since the ODAC designer has set the Benchmark DAC1 as a "benchmark", i can think of 5 HPs that would be a good fit with my BM DAC1 - the HD650 would be one of them.  while i still found the HD650 to be musically lacking, i found their FR balance to be quite neutral with excellent detail.  an easy pairing to recommend.

The last time I had them I didn't have a very good computer DAC. I was in the CD only phase and this was only about 1 1/2 years ago. I've made sure to check the same equipment and see if I got the same or different results.

I can't afford any very expensive amps ($400+), but I remember buying the Asgard and loving it with the HD-600/D2000, but not the HD-650. I can't understand why. Is the Asgard supposed to be considered a warm sounding amp? If so, maybe that's why. I clearly remember liking it more with the E9. Can't explain that one.

I switched to a Headroom Micro Amp and it sounded much, much better to my ears. Despite the improvements it still had a mid-bass hump and lack of treble. I mainly did that because it also sounded great with my AKG stuff.

I don't find the Micro to be be all that warm. I think it's fairly transparent, but probably not as much as the O2. It's never changed any of my headphone's sound signatures. It only as good as what it's connected to of course.

Tyll just measured one version and it seems to measure flat. I guess most amps do, but they sure don't sound that way.

I won't be upgrading my amp because it sounds so good right now. Probably the best headphone i've heard yet. It's a bit tough getting used to it's "thicker" mids, but I like it. If I ever do upgrade, it'll be maybe a hybrid tube amp for my DJ100 and Q701!

I didn't have the ODAC before (obviously).

I do remember on day one trying it with just a Clip+ to Total Airhead and it sounding very good. I can't say it's that dramatically different with the Micro Amp. It seems a lot "flatter" with the Micro amp and ODAC though.

BTW for anyone that's curious, the Micro has tons of power. It can even drive the K400 and 600ohm headphones quite well. As you'd expect, I still have to deal with people telling me i'm still using a portable amp! Volume doesn't mean much, but this 650 only needs 30% volume on low gain.

I bet when they made the Micro they had used the HD-650 for testing  :)

I do have a feeling the ODAC is making the 650 a bit more revealing than it normally is. Not sure about this. The ODAC seemed to benefit my 650/DJ100 more than the Q701. Very strange. I don't know what this means. I think the 650 scaling up with better gear isn't non-sense after all.

I'll think about sending this 650 in, but it's just been too addicting lately. Can barely take it off my head. It's been maybe a week and my opinion hasn't changed much. It is kind of weirding me out how so many of my songs vary so much in recording quality. Yeah, with the HD-650! Makes no sense. I thought it was supposed to be very forgiving and make everything sound good  :) Of course it's not fatiguing.

This 650 is actually just as fun to listen to as my 598. Love how it sounds with even my portable amp. I need to try it with a CMOY too. I have a Fiio E11, but I imagine that will be awful with it.



Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: prtuc2 on January 27, 2013, 02:26:18 AM
It would be interesting to see the FR and CSD plot comparison between single-end vs balanced, since this was a highly debatable topic when the Senn HD650 was released.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: omegakitty on February 01, 2013, 12:05:50 AM
Marv's post 4 got me to thinking about the difference pads make with sound on the HD650.

On the left you can see my 13 year old HD580s. These have pads that are very well worn in. The indentation in the pad is made from very lightly pressing with a finger and that is the true shape of the pad. The rest is mostly just "puff" from the velvet. These headphones fit me like a glove and I always thought there was something 'magical' about this specific pair... no other 580/600 sounded like them and I've said that in some other thread here. Basically they sound more alive in the upper mids relative to other Senns.

This week I bought a new pair of HD650 and you can see the huge difference in the pads when it's compared with the former. They are super stiff and barely compress on the head.

(http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y385/dranalogue/sennpads.png)

Now on to the sound quality. Keep in mind these HD650 are not broken in if you believe in that. Out of the box with the stock pads they didn't impress me. I went through my usual test tracks and never got excited about what I was hearing. They sounded good, but hell I have an HD800 a few feet away from me.

Now I switched over the well worn pads from my HD580 onto the HD650. Immediate difference in sound. They sound much closer to my old HD580. But either subconscious or real there is still some of the HD650 sound, that is a thickening of the bass and not quite as active treble.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: CEE TEE on February 01, 2013, 01:50:13 AM
I wish Mkubota1 would chime in about this, he repaired his brother's HD600 and might be able to report on change in new pads on an old pair.  He also has HD580 and HD650 and HD800.  We sat with all of them at the same time one afternoon.  I found his HD580 to sound a bit more recessed in the mids than the pair that I borrowed from blessingx and have heard on multiple occasions but can't be sure unless back-to-back listening on same rig.  I find Mkubota1's HD650 to sound a bit veiled but would like to try several pairs off of the same Crack amp.


I can say that at the SoCal meet I tried both uzi's and mackat's HD650's back-to-back off same Crack amp and both were really nice but one was just a "touch" brighter.  The ones that Anaxilus had were funky- purrin heard mackat's HD650 and the HeadRoom set and I believe he concurs.  I've got shipsupt's HD600 coming in and I'll keep them.  I'll also wait and pick up HD650 when I get the chance so I can have the set and figure it out for myself...pads/amp/mood/?
 
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: mkubota1 on February 01, 2013, 08:25:04 AM
(Wish granted.  ;))  Actually, I didn't get to spend much time with my brother's HD600s with the old/flattened pads.  However, to make things even more confusing, I did notice a pretty big difference between his HD600s (~12+ years old?) and my HD600s which I bought around 10/2012.  Both having brand new pads after refurbing my brother's set, his sounded quite a bit more mid-centric.  Not in the analytical sense, but with less bass and maybe slightly softer highs compared to my new HD600s.  Compared to my HD580s, which as CEETEE mentioned have a very slight vee shaped character to them, my new HD600s sound like a better version of the 580s in every aspect: much stronger bass, less dip in the mids, and clearer mid > highs.  I always thought that the HD580s had a softness to their sound (veil?... not sure I'd call it that) that made them listenable for days.  My new HD600s seem to have a tiny bit more aggressiveness in the form of the previously mentioned aspects.  But it still has that Sennheiser 580/600/650 ease of listenability I seem to get from them.

In both cases (old 600 vs. new 600, 580 vs. new 600), the older cans do have quite a few more miles on them compared to the new 600s, which as I write this probably have less than 30 hours on them.  So it's not a completely apples to apples comparison.  Going back to the old 600 vs. new 600, I don't have both on hand right now so I cannot tell you of any physical differences.

So now that we're all thoroughly confused...
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: jerg on February 02, 2013, 03:47:17 AM
(Wish granted.  ;))  Actually, I didn't get to spend much time with my brother's HD600s with the old/flattened pads.  However, to make things even more confusing, I did notice a pretty big difference between his HD600s (~12+ years old?) and my HD600s which I bought around 10/2012.  Both having brand new pads after refurbing my brother's set, his sounded quite a bit more mid-centric.  Not in the analytical sense, but with less bass and maybe slightly softer highs compared to my new HD600s.  Compared to my HD580s, which as CEETEE mentioned have a very slight vee shaped character to them, my new HD600s sound like a better version of the 580s in every aspect: much stronger bass, less dip in the mids, and clearer mid > highs.  I always thought that the HD580s had a softness to their sound (veil?... not sure I'd call it that) that made them listenable for days.  My new HD600s seem to have a tiny bit more aggressiveness in the form of the previously mentioned aspects.  But it still has that Sennheiser 580/600/650 ease of listenability I seem to get from them.

In both cases (old 600 vs. new 600, 580 vs. new 600), the older cans do have quite a few more miles on them compared to the new 600s, which as I write this probably have less than 30 hours on them.  So it's not a completely apples to apples comparison.  Going back to the old 600 vs. new 600, I don't have both on hand right now so I cannot tell you of any physical differences.

So now that we're all thoroughly confused...

I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the diaphragms "age" with use and time, especially over the scale of decades.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Solderdude on February 02, 2013, 10:43:48 AM
It is possible materials (certainly plastics) change their properties over time (decades indeed)

Also consider spread in production (tolerances) but most of all changes in the design (quietly done) to materials, pads whatever to improve performance or if they have to use different/cheaper/easier to obtain materials.
well known examples : HD650, Dx000, ATH-M50, T50RP to name but a few, even within a few months and production spread Beyer is notorious (Tesla's)

Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Ringingears on February 02, 2013, 05:35:29 PM
Also consider spread in production (tolerances) but most of all changes in the design (quietly done) to materials, pads whatever to improve performance or if they have to use different/cheaper/easier to obtain materials.
well known examples : HD650, Dx000, ATH-M50, T50RP to name but a few, even within a few months and production spread Beyer is notorious (Tesla's)

I will second this especially the Beyer's. I had a pair of DT880's that were so U shaped in their FR that I could barely hear the vocals and the treble was unbearable. I sent them back. About two months later a friend bought a new pair, and they sounded very nice.  :)p8
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Armaegis on March 18, 2013, 06:26:06 AM
I heard an HD650 today (a relatively new one I believe) and it was nothing like ones I'd heard in the past. This is the first time I've felt like there was a "veil". Bass felt ill defined and there must have been a strong dip in the treble somewhere because something was missing. I wasn't even sure I was listening to a Sennheiser  :-Z
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: donunus on March 18, 2013, 06:49:53 AM
What were those plugged in to by the way?
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Armaegis on March 18, 2013, 07:37:23 AM
Nuforce DAC-100 and HDP, UHA 6Smk2, Asgard2.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: victor25 on March 18, 2013, 07:49:19 AM
Hi,

I had my old HD650 yesterday side by side with my new one (one was really old, black backs etc., the other one brand new, white backs). I noticed that the new one sounded less laid-back, more aggressive. Its still a HD650 (forgiving, and easy to listen to), but definitely more forward sounding than the old one. The visual changes are also very obvious, its not just the different damping material, there's all sort of different stuff going on (on the back of the driver). I prefer the new one quite a lot  :)p7
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Armaegis on March 19, 2013, 08:24:55 AM
I've been poking around a bit and it seems the 650 have quite a bit of variance. Does anyone know if the 600 are more consistent?
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: roBernd on March 21, 2013, 01:14:19 AM
nope, they suffer the same flaw.
The newer ones come with the silver screen instead of the black "acoustic silk screen". I prefer the latter to quite some extend. The "Silver" HD 650/600 sound too bright for me... (I'm 25... if it helps)
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Armaegis on March 21, 2013, 02:39:56 AM
Hrm, makes me regret trading the HD580 I had a while ago. It was really good, but curiosity got the better of me to try other things.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Solderdude on March 21, 2013, 07:18:37 AM
White(silver) driver vs black driver ?
New pad vs old pad (http://sonove.angry.jp/HD650_Pad_effect.html) ?
Were the White(silver) driver AND new pad type introduced at the same time ?
Was the production change done in reaction to address the 'veil' that had been reported in their flagship a long time ago ?
Could pads being compressed slowly changing the sonic signature and account for differences perceived between different 'samples' ?
Circumstances under which was listened (mind set) when we 'remember' how a headphone sounded when we heard headphone W a while ago connected to X with music Y at location Z at a specific time of day ?
A spread in production materials used during the long time it has been manufactured ?

Can someone actually tell which sonic effect is caused by what aspect or a combination of them and in what extend/ratio ?
Maybe just accept that even the same model headphones (manufactured over many years) just don't sound the same and include personal preference as well to account for which 'version' person A and person B finds to be the best sounding.

Personal opinion: I have the 'old' (black with old pads) and did find it an excellent headphone, never heard the new an old side by side in the comfort of my own surroundings.
I sold my HD580 as well.
Don't listen to the HD650 anymore though.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: anetode on May 02, 2013, 05:18:04 PM
Is Anetode's pair with black screen or silver? My own pair measures more similar to his in turns of FR, but mine has a black screen. Doesn't help that I had to replace the front cover, since the seller had lost them.

My pair's distortion measurements:
(http://www.guanmado.com/img/HD650-harmonic.png)

Silver. Sorry for the late reply.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: roBernd on May 04, 2013, 11:50:52 AM
Truth to be told, I had a used HD600 (black acoustic screen) and bought a brand new HD650 2012. Sent the HD650 back after a few days because it basically sounded like the newer DT880, almost neutral bass and heavy focus on upper mids/treble.

All I wanted was a laid back HD600, what I received was a Beyer...
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: MuppetFace on May 04, 2013, 01:18:06 PM
The HD650 I acquired a few years ago was definitely not treble happy and had more of a lush, full sound. I'm not sure I'd call it dark however. It didn't seem that veiled either. Overall one of the better dynamic headphones I've owned.

Don't recall what type of screen it had.

Have the differences between the HD600 and HD650 lessened or widened over time?
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Mr.Sneis on May 08, 2013, 06:25:09 PM
I'm not as good as the least qualified pirate here but:

-I like the black/silk screen hd600 and hd650 better; I think they sound more romantic in the bass and possibly a little more rolled off at the ends but I doubt it.  The silver screen versions to me sound more neutral but are less enjoyable.  I'm the same guy that chooses lcd-2r1 over r2.  My brain tells me the hd650/600 is not the last word in detail retrieval so who gives a shit if it's not dead nuts resolving at the ends.  These differences are ever so slight as well so it's not going to blow your mind either way.

-I can't say this for certain either but I once had both silver screened hd600 and h650 in my possession at the same time and found them more similar if not identical.  Maybe someone messed up at the factory.  I definitely can tell the difference in a blind test of the black screen hd600 and hd650.

-If I had to take only 1 based on sonic merits it would be black screen hd600, even over the 580 Jubilee (!).
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Marvey on May 08, 2013, 07:04:43 PM
I don't doubt you. Having heard various HD600s/HD650s sound all over the place.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Lumos on August 14, 2013, 10:41:59 AM
Greetings

First post here :) Not only acoustic screens changed, Senn also changed diaphragm material, see photos here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/197776/sennheiser-hd650-appreciation-thread/3990

,,For those of you who are curious, here are some pictures of the old 'black silk' version of the drivers and newer 'steel mesh' version.
New= thicker Duofol material with parts number printed on diaphragm.
Old= thinner, shinier, with a number stamped on to the center of the diaphragm''

cheers   
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: CEE TEE on August 14, 2013, 05:29:28 PM
^Cool, thanks for the link!  Remember to stop by and introduce yourself too  http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,302.0.html (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,302.0.html)
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Lumos on September 11, 2013, 06:11:02 PM
I was comparing HD600 and HD650 frequency response here, and wondering if it is worth to call Senn and spend 130$ on 600 drivers. I put them in my HD650... but HD600 looks less linear, technically less refined... hence less resolution on treble?

Hmm I don't know if it is worth to pay another 130$ ... Hell, I want more quicker bass then HD650, probably less prominent, but I am worrying it could sound very close to HD598, similar slight glare effect on treble not as full sounding but more ,,alive''... that you folks think? 
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: donunus on September 11, 2013, 07:10:20 PM
nah the 600 is closer to the 650 than the 598
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Lumos on September 11, 2013, 07:28:16 PM
nah the 600 is closer to the 650 than the 598

I think HD650 is pretty decent performer and reproduces fullness of string instruments, while on HD598 you have some grain not as bad but noticeable. Right now I am listening Vivaldi's Musica per Mandolino e liuto, and it sounds very rich

but when bass comes into play I am less happy, using Ibasso D12 now with changed op-amps

I am reluctant to pay 130$ for HD600 drivers, but if it is better I have to :D
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: ultrabike on November 08, 2013, 07:43:10 AM
These from the SD meet. These were pretty beat up. The pads were pretty worn and the drivers were exposed with the lining hanging loose. However, the owner was fairly fond of them and said he would often fall asleep with them on.

Frequency Response

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=469.0;attach=4517;image)

CSD right

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=469.0;attach=4519;image)

CSD left

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=469.0;attach=4521;image)

FR comparo with HD600 from the meet (blue right driver), and CT's HD600 (yellow right driver)

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=469.0;attach=4523;image)
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Armaegis on November 08, 2013, 07:59:24 AM
These look fantastic except for that imbalance and wobble in the left (which might be the exposed driver lining?)
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: ultrabike on November 08, 2013, 10:15:40 AM
Maybe. I remember I measured it twice with the same wobble result. I even removed some lining that was touching one of the drivers. It was a little beat up.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Deep Funk on November 08, 2013, 10:45:58 AM
I must agree with the owner when the frequency response is that linear. For a beat up headphone that is simply good.
Title: Re: HD650 Redux
Post by: Armaegis on November 08, 2013, 03:06:17 PM
Or perhaps pads worn out in a different way. It'd be interesting to see measurements on the same set with fresh pads.