CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

Non-Audio Stuff => Food and Drink => Topic started by: Valentin Hogea on October 27, 2013, 03:23:12 PM

Title: The stogie thread
Post by: Valentin Hogea on October 27, 2013, 03:23:12 PM
Just wanted to see if there are any other cigar aficionados among the fellow pirates?

I've been a nicotine junkie since I was 13. My introduction was the most common form of tobacco in Sweden (moist snuff,  used under the lip). However in later years I've started to explore the world that is cigars. Favourite brands are various masterpieces by Litto Gomez [e.g. La Flor Dominicana] and the Olivia family. Not a big fan of cubans as I find them to be the Goldmund of tobacco.

Just had a:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pojdXcKe1kw/TTXUHVV4PeI/AAAAAAAABus/pF1Nf4G8GDU/s1600/LFD+airbender+maduro.jpg)

and a couple of sips of espresso...

Time to get back to work.

/V
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on October 27, 2013, 06:54:59 PM
Some of my current stash:

(http://i.imgur.com/gbjWbnMl.jpg)

Had a Fuente Hemingway and an Aston at RMAF.  The far right is a vintage RyJ Churchill Habanos.  I only have a few left.

Tbh, the quality of tobacco has been in decline IMO over the past 15 years largely due to diluted supply.  There simply isn't a non-Cuban on the market that match a true Habano for richness and complexity.  Or I've never had it.  Yup, I've had Flor Dominicana, the local tobacconist here was one of the first to import them to the states.  He used to push them like crack cocaine because he got snubbed by the Feunte distributor.  They are good.

Problem is you can't even count on the real Habanos being 'real' these days due to corruption.  Last I heard the official govt. store in Havana sold 'official' counterfeits.  I think the real quality stuff is either getting poached right off the floor or marketed as limited edition reserves.  The demand is just too high to keep consistent QC.

My favorite smokes of all time in order have been: Punch (Hab), Hoyo De Monterrey (Hab), Romeo y Julieta Chruchill (Hab), Montecristo/Trinidad - tied (both Hab), Feunte Feunte Opus X, Diamond Crown, Padron Anniverserio, Avo/Ashton/Feunte Hemingway/Don Carlos- tied, Sancho Panza (Hab).  Honestly I could enjoy the flavor of a cheap ass pack of good ole American natural Backwoods more than most 'premium' cigars out there.
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Valentin Hogea on October 27, 2013, 07:17:00 PM
Mi Amor is a real sweet one. Like it a lot. The Padron you have there, haven't tried it. Heard good about it though. The rest look like non-cuban "Cubans". Which are inexistant in the non-embargo world if I understand it right...

Ashton and Macanudo are two other liked brands...

If I would do a top 10 of stogies it'll be something like (in no specific order, as good cigars depend on mood, drink and the previous meal... trying to grade them is absurdly tricky). And I might say that I like my espresso dark, as my cigars.

La Flor Dominicana Cameroon Cabinet Chisel
La Flor Dominicana Air Bender Chisel
La Flor Dominicana Double Ligero (ahhh... the darkness)
Oliva Series O Belicoso
Olica Series V Melanio Gran Reserva Limitada Torpedo
Ashton Aged Maduro no 40
Ashton VSG Torpedo
Macanudo Hyde Park Maduro (mmm... chocolate + espresso in a burning [redickted] form)
Flor de las Antillas Toro
Arturo Fuente King Tubo (although not fully worth it's price)
Cohiba Siglo II Tubo (same as above)

I find most cubans to be lacking considering what can be bought for the same cash if going Dominican or Nicaraguan.

I mean... For 6€ I can hardly get a H. Upmann Coronas Junior (which is a joke btw), but I can purchase a LFD Air Bender Robusto and still have 1€ left. That should be even more evident in the US considering how cheap non-cubans are on US soil.

On the other hand, if there is a decline in Cuban quality, I came to late to the tracks. From my point of view Cubans, seem hyped. But maybe the glory days have passed as you noted.

The premium stash below (the non-premiums are hiding in a plastidor waiting for recession):

(http://i41.tinypic.com/4k9nat.jpg)
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: shipsupt on October 27, 2013, 07:40:21 PM
I want to grab a quick shot of my stash, but I'm embarrassed that I've been keeping them in a plastic bag!  Shame on me!
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Stapsy on October 27, 2013, 09:27:09 PM
I have never tried Cubans from prior to the "cigar boom", but most of the ones I have tried are surpassed by cheaper non-cubans.  The notable exception being the Bolivar Royal Corona.  At $14 a pop I am not smoking many of them.

I think a lot of the Cuban hype is due to American's not having access to them.  I was in Florida last year and bought 12 cigars for no more than $7 each and they were all superb.  Compare that with $25-$30 for a Cuban Montecristo No. 2 and it is quite comical.  I would be glad to give up having expensive Cubans available for the assortment of My Father, Illusione, Alec Bradley smokes that I picked up at a reasonable price.  Unless you are willing to spend $60 a stick on Cohiba Behike's etc, I don't think Cuban's are anything special.

Anyway, here is my small collection.  I don't smoke cigars much anymore.  I find they are better suited to the warm summer months than the cooler temperatures we have most of the year.  As soon as it starts to get cooler I reach for my pipe.  I have a big bag of cuban cigar leaf cuttings that a friend of mine who imports cigars gave to me that I add into my pipe if I need a little dose of cigar flavor.  This way instead of a pile of ashes that used to be a cigar I am left with a nice collection of pipes to admire!
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on October 28, 2013, 12:02:45 AM
The rest look like non-cuban "Cubans". Which are inexistant in the non-embargo world if I understand it right...

Actually the far Churchill is like I said, a true vintage Habano RyJ pre-2000.  As was every one in the entire box which miraculously ended up in my possession.  Don't ask me how I know.  If you look closely at the label and the cap, the evidence is pretty clear.  The others are approved for domestic import (Nicaraguan, Honduran, Dominican, etc.).

I'm still looking for a non Habano to match the power and complexity of true Habano.  That's one reason I've been trying so many non Cubans lately as in the picture.  IME they are really apples and oranges.  Something about the soil and light just leaves the others very subtle and delicate tasting compared to the Habanos I'm used to.  I've been tending to get bored of them half way through.  I might just start sticking to max Robusto or equivalent Figurado sizes.
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Stapsy on October 29, 2013, 12:41:40 AM
Well Anax, you got me to try a little Punch Habana Corona tonight.  Not bad, but definitely not magical.  All the cuban's I have tried tend to have a real earthiness to them.  I am still holding the Bolivar as the best Cuban I have had.  The other's have been lacking in complexity.

I agree with you on the getting bored half way through.  I think most consumer's are not looking for a rich and complex smoke, which has led to the types of non-Cuban cigars on the market that are just utterly boring (Davidoff is the worst culprit).  CeeTee and I were talking a while back about stogies and he mentioned the Rocky Patel 1992 as being a nice Cubanish non Habano.  Might want to try that if you haven't already.

Personally I have found Illusione to be quite tasty and complex.  They tend to be on the milder side though.  I did try a couple maduro versions but thought the originals were better.  On the other hand the La Flor Chisel tip Puro I had a while back had a very nice rich flavor without becoming acrid, but it was missing the subtle flavor and complexity of a truly great cigar.
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on October 29, 2013, 02:50:29 AM
Yeah, Punch is very very inconsistent.  It was the most magical smoke I've ever had bursting w/ flavors like no other.  Unfortunately it's never been replicated even by other Punches.  I had some Patel that came in its own cedar box, it was okay.
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Valentin Hogea on October 29, 2013, 10:50:29 AM
Just placed a "small" order.. Hopefully the rainy weather will tone down during the week, not exactly cigar-friendly right now. We got almost hurricane winds the last few days.



1    Aging Room Small Batch M356 Rondo
5    Alec Bradley American Sun Grown Corona
1    Alec Bradley Prensado Churchill
1    Berger & Argenti Classico Churchill
5    Brick House Robusto
5    Brick House Robusto Maduro
11    Camacho Corojo Monarca
1    CAO Italia Piazza
1    CAO La Traviata Divino Maduro
5    CAO Lx2 Toro
1    CAO MX2 Robusto
5    Carlos Torano Exodus 1959 50 Years Box Press
1    Casa Fernandez Miami Toro
5    Casa Magna Colorado Churchill
1    Casa Magna Colorado Robusto
5    Don Pepin Garcia Cuban Classic Black Toro Gordo 2001
1    Don Tomas Classico Robusto
1    E.P. Carrillo New Wave Connecticut Stellas
1    Esteli Overruns Churchill Connecticut
1    Flor De Las Antillas by My Father Toro
1    H. Upmann Vintage Cameroon Belicoso
1    J. Fuego Natural Toro
1    J. Fuego Reserva Corojo #1 Belicoso
1    Joya De Nicaragua Antano 1970 Robusto Grande
1    Kristoff Corojo Limitada Torpedo
5    La Aroma De Cuba Mi Amor Robusto
1    La Aurora Preferidos Ecuador Sun Grown #2
10    La Aurora Preferidos Packs Maduro Sun Grown #2
5    La Flor Dominicana Air Bender Chisel
5    La Flor Dominicana Cameroon Cabinet Chisel
5    La Flor Dominicana Coronado Double Corona
5    La Flor Dominicana Double Ligero Chisel
1    La Gloria Cubana Artesansos de Obelisco Piramide
1    La Gloria Cubana Artesansos Retro Especiale Habanero
1    La Gloria Cubana Serie R Black No. 60
1    La Gloria Cubana Serie R No. 6 Maduro
1    La Gloria Cubana Serie R No. 6 Natural
1    La Mia Robusto
5    La Reloba Sumatra Cigars Torpedo Sumatra
1    La Reloba Sumatra Torpedo
1    Nat Sherman Timeless #2
1    New Rustico Habano Toro
5    Oliva Serie O Robusto
1    Oliva Serie V Churchill Extra
1    Oliva Serie V Diadema (6 x 46)
1    Oliva Serie V Diadema (7 x 49)
1    Oliva Serie V Double Robusto
1    Oliva Serie V Torpedo
1    One-N-Done Jalapa Habano Torpedo
1    Panama Red Toro (6 1/ 50)
1    Partagas 1845 Heritage Robusto
1    Partagas Black Label Gigante
1    PDR 1878 Reserva Dominicana Habana Blue Robusto
1    PDR 1878 Reserva Dominicana Oscura Red Toro
1    Perdomo 20th Anniversary Sungrown Epicure
1    Punch Gran Puro Rancho
1    Rocky Patel Edge Corojo Toro
1    Rocky Patel Edge Lite Robusto
1    Rocky Patel Edge Maduro Torpedo
1    Rocky Patel Edge Nicaraguan Torpedo
1    Rocky Patel Freedom Robusto
1    Rocky Patel Olde World Corojo Toro
2    Rocky Patel Sun Grown Torpedo Torpedo
1    Rocky Patel Sungrown Robusto
1    Rocky Patel Vintage 1990 Robusto
2    Rocky Patel Vintage 1990 Torpedo
1    Rocky Patel Vintage 1992 Perfect
2    Rocky Patel Vintage 1992 Torpedo
1    Rocky Patel Vintage 2003 Sixty
1    Rocky Patel Vintage 2003 Toro
1    Romeo by Romeo & Juliet Piramide
1    Room 101 Ltd Conjura Edition LTDC 60 x 5
1    Spanish Galleon Corojo Presidente Corojo
1    Spanish Galleon Corojo Torpedo

Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on July 26, 2014, 06:46:38 AM
Well this thread has been idle for awhile.  I've actually been quite busy on the cigar front as CeeTee can attest to via my emails.  3 humidors and about 300 cigars later, I'll have to get around to posting some pics and notes 

Till then, if anyone has $700,000 lying around for a lighter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldRmgedavnI#t=35
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: BlackenedPlague on July 26, 2014, 07:18:50 AM
Is it true that you just puff on cigars, and not actually inhale the smoke? Curious is all
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on July 26, 2014, 07:59:59 AM
Is it true that you just puff on cigars, and not actually inhale the smoke? Curious is all

Yes, it's about flavor profile and aroma.  Personally I find cigarettes gross and have never smoked one.
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Claritas on July 26, 2014, 09:14:35 AM
For me, it's the taste and the "medicinal effect" (easily lost through indulgence); I don't much notice the scent.
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on July 28, 2014, 08:29:50 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/iGVU53dl.jpg)

Hoyo De Tradicion, Hoyo De Monterrey Excalibur, Punch Rare Corojo 2014 Limited Salomones, H. Upmann Banker, Montecristo Espada.

(http://i.imgur.com/DiyODlAl.jpg)

La Aroma De Cuba Mi Amor, La Antiguedad, My Father, Pepin Blue, Alec Bradley Tempus, Opus X, Rocky Patel 1992, Rocky Patel Fusion (new blend), La Herencia Cubana Core (San Cristobal and La Flor De Las Antillas not shown).

(http://i.imgur.com/wR7EkbAl.jpg)

Sancho Panza, Sancho Panza Extra Fuerte, Oliva Master Blend 3, Perdomo 10th Anniversary Champagne, Perdomo ESV, Palo Prieto, Montecristo Churchill Extra.

(http://i.imgur.com/8xhUWNTl.jpg)

Camacho Corojo, Camacho 10th Anniversary, Camacho Pre Embargo, select Camachos (Double Maduro, Diploma, CLE, Libertad), Spectre, Ramon Bueso Genesis, Cusano 18 year old, Romeo y Juiletta Vieja.

(http://i.imgur.com/N6IOiS0l.jpg)

Hugh Heffner by Don Diego and assorted trial blends.

(http://i.imgur.com/o7oplCTl.jpg)

Almost forgot mazos of Gurkha Centurian and La Perla Habana Grand Pearl.  Macanudo Gran Cru, Excalibur Cameroon and Prensado Oscuro not shown.
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on August 02, 2014, 09:22:04 AM
For me, it's the taste and the "medicinal effect" (easily lost through indulgence); I don't much notice the scent.

What do you usually smoke?  If you aren't getting the aroma off My Father cigars, you are really missing out.

If you like the medicinal effect, try a San Cristobal Revelation Leviathan (6.5x64).  That size will pump out a decent amount of nicotine.

 
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Claritas on August 02, 2014, 09:42:41 AM
What do you usually smoke?  If you aren't getting the aroma off My Father cigars, you are really missing out.

If you like the medicinal effect, try a San Cristobal Revelation Leviathan (6.5x64).  That size will pump out a decent amount of nicotine.

I don't smoke much now that I moved to a place without a terrace. I really like Cuban Montecristos when available; otherwise Dominican Fuentes. My taste hasn't changed over the years, but my wrapper and size preferences have. I always smoked only maduros and sometimes oscuros roughly toro-sized. Now, I prefer natural wrappers roughly robusto-sized. It's been too long, so thanks for the recommendation. I'll hunt that one down.
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on October 06, 2014, 07:14:03 AM
Logging a conversation between myself and CeeTee.

CeeTee: And- you're right.  The Rocky Patels I have had lately have not been as good (both 1990 and 1992).  I had to have a My Father to make up for the RP I had last night while watching the second Giants game (extra 9 innings).

Anax: I have about 10 1992s aging hoping they'll turn around once they get some plume on the wrapper.  I had a couple new sticks that you might like to replace the RP vintages with.  A Headley Grange from Four Kicks and an Aging Room F55 Quattro.  They both turned out to score quite high as well.  I liked the F55 a bit more in the flavor and aroma profile than the HG, it just had more of an instant wow factor.  However after 1/3 to 1/2 it become more monotone though still good.  I suspect the F55 was either front loaded (some cigar companies apparently put the most flavorful filler up front during the roll) or I became more numb to it's particular profile.  Could be the later as some of the layers came back after some fresh water.  The HG has a very good layered profile.  Though not as rich as the F55, it's a much mroe refined and consistent smoke in flavor and build.  The F55 was more flaky I also suspect due to the nature of most box pressed cigars.

_______

On a side note.  I've been keen to follow the marketing and brand development of various manufacturers.  I've been finding that certain brands with a large product profile seem to have issues maintaining consistency and quality in build and flavor (Gurkha, Rocky Patel, others).  No surprise since tobacco is something of a limited resource due to the nature of weather, geography and harvesting. 

It's clear to me some of them build a brand following and shift resources to a new and shiny label.  You keep the loyalists and entice the experimenters thus expand your profile at the same time.  It appears Tobacco can be a rather seedy business.   :D

My current strategy has been to stay loyal to those that have put out consistent reviews from journalists and third parties and verify with my own tasting.  Also, to pursue newer blends of interest that might have more attention and resources dedicated to their launching if the blend and brand makes sense to me. 
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on October 11, 2014, 12:15:31 AM
Partagas Series D, No.5 (tubos) Impressions:
Bugatti triple torch lighter
Xikar V-cutter
Glass of ice water
Hoyo De Monterrey Excalibur 'Cameroon'

(http://www.5thavenue.de/images/stories/Produkte/partagas_serie_d_no_5_3er_tubo_packung_5th_avenue_products_trading_gmbh.jpg)

(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/mydiscountcigar_2267_169567152)

So I decided to finally light up a Habano Partagas Series D No.5 I've had in the humi for over a month.  With all the new limited premium offerings coming after the IPCPR, I decided to see if attention would be better paid on those or the Habanos.  It's been more than 15 years since I was into Habanos so I wasn't quite sure what to expect.  After talking to some old timers in the industry, it seems there have been some serious changes to the Cuban industry since then.  Economics and weather has forced the use of different strains of tobacco and even the fertilizers used to produce some profound wrappers in the past have been replaced by newer, possibly cheaper formulations.  Just a few changes among many I'm sure.

So I fired up the No.5 and immediately noticed a reminiscent taste and aroma which reminded me of past Habanos.  Good sign.  It also reinforced my belief that Honduran tobacco is still the closest in profile to the Cubans when compared to the Nicaraguans, Dominicans, and others.  They just have this extra earthiness and heartiness to their flavor the others tend to miss out on for me.  This really reminded of some pre-Davidoff/original Christian Eiroa Camacho Corojos and Anniversarios that just scream Honduras I have resting at the moment.  The usual flavors and scents are there like leather, wood, and nuts but in just a somewhat tweaked balance from what you normally would find in the Non-Cubans.  Right off the foot I was greeted by a long lost friend, brighter blue smoke rising in a richer, more viscous plume that just tends to linger a bit longer and slower than the Non-Cubans (NCs).  I've always felt the smoke from NCs just tend to seem in a slight hurry to be somewhere compared to the Cubans.  I was pleased to see this part of the experience intact.

To make sure I wasn't crazy, I went inside and grabbed a Honduran Hoyo De Monterrey Excalibur 'Cameroon' I had laying about for comparison.  After lighting, that first taste confirmed a more lean and delicate flavor normally found in the NCs.  It seems I haven't quite fully succumbed to a general memory decline yet.  Right off the nose, the blue smoke from the Partagas wrapper seemed very reminiscent of the Ecuadorian Sumatra wrappers used by many NCs these days with a slight difference.  The Sumatrans from Ecuador seem to lend a rather welcome rich sweetness often reminiscent of raisins to me.  What's different here is rather than raisins, the Partagas seems to be emanating a more hearty brown sugar character. 

After about an inch in, this where that Cuban fickleness and lack of consistency seemed to rear it's ugly head.  In this case, I started getting sharply bitter blasts of espresso grinds on my palate.  I've had this before but in a more rounded and diffuse manner (NCs) rather than being so focused as it was with the Partagas Series D.  In my experience, this can tend to be a result of a cigar running too hot and charring the tobacco yielding what seems to be coal dumped on your palate.  I was certainly taking it easy relative to my NC protocols, but I did notice the No.5 seemed to be drawing down rather quickly so I'm sure heat management was a component to the problem.  I did leave the ash alone to test for construction but perhaps if I dropped it sooner, the heat would have probably been better regulated.  Regardless, it lasted only about an inch and a half, but did blast my palate and was not pleasant to say the least. The HdM was, as ever, consistent and predictable. 

In contrast, the HdM being a Cameroon which is known to be a sweet wrapper as well, let itself be known when switching back and forth.  Unlike the No.5 or your typical Ecuadoran Sumatra, I find the Cameroons to present more of a simple sugar note of sharp plain sweetness.  This is much like the flavor you find in a simple syrup one might make for a cocktail.  Sweet, but one dimensional and lacking complexity.  Having plowed through the No.5's trouble spot, that normal profile of leather, wood, and nuts comes back but with a change that became quite apparent and surprising to me.  Notes of what were brown sugar are now vanilla malt or milkshake?!  The closest I've gotten from a NC in the past has been traces of honey, but never quite Vanilla bean.  I continue to go back and forth between the two and notice how the Series D No.5 seems to change rather quickly compared to the HdM.  Jose Gener Hoyo De Monterrey's are known for their stable and predictable profiles so this is not all that surprising relatively speaking.

As the Partagas draws to a close (it's a short cigar and burns somewhat fast) I sense another very noticeable change.  The Vanilla is gone and replaced by...Bananas?!  F*cking Bananas!!  Are you kidding me?  This is another area I find Habanos to simply differentiate themselves from NCs.  Flavor and aroma presentation.  NCs seem to offer the more analytic experience where notes of flavor and aroma often involve more delicate traces that require more cerebral parsing.  On the other hand, Cubans just seem to be more impactful in power and flavor.  I don't have to try as hard to pick out the subtleties because very often, they are not that subtle.  Whereas a San Cristobal from Pepin and Garcia (not a subtle NC) might present a sense of dried cherry, this Partagas along with prior Habanos like my very first and favorite Punch were dropping Bananas, Oranges and other fruit right on my head as if falling from a tree.  The flavor did start to get a bit rough though as the filler clearly seemed to be too young providing that sort of bitter herbal, hay and grass profile.  Even though it was getting to the nub and turning into that nasty tar/Espresso profile due to lack of adequate leaf filtering, I felt compelled to keep it going just for the sense of Bananas.  I ended up with toasty fingers as a result, but it was worth it.

I have to say, I was happy that a Habano could still offer such a different and unique experience compared to a NC.  It was also not as bad as I was expecting the new Cubans to be, I will certainly seek to replicate the experience and I have a few more different options resting away for future testing.  While this is only my first Habano in a long time I do feel I can agree and disagree about a few generalizations when comparisons are made between the two.

When comparing to the premium NCs, Cubans truly do offer a poor value when comparing price to flavor ratios.  I'd say for half the typical cost, you can sometimes get NCs that are equal or superior in quantity, build, flavor and overall consistency.  There are immensely more choices to choose from outside Cuba, and there are many master blenders offering cutting edge blends and experimental profiles that are usually backed with more consistent logistics and methodologies provided by large corporate sponsors.  However, Habanos SA is now under a European corporate umbrella (Altadis) so that is improving.  This can also be a bad thing if you look for brands or models which offer deals or seemingly super value.  You might get front loaded blends that disappear after a few inches.  Find the same exact monotone fillers that are boring or young stuffed into almost every different wrapper, binder and brand owned by the parent corporation designed to maximize profits.  Things like that.

While this example of the Series D No.5 blew out my palate a few times indicating consistency and age was lacking, when it shined it shined, as some Cubans can when given the chance.  Some say they need 3-6 years of aging minimum to shine.  I am skeptical about such claims though I do know and believe aging does change the profile for various reasons (humidor and cedar influence, evaporation, fermentation, etc.), 5-6 six years seems a bit of a ridiculous extreme especially since Habanos usually come uncello'd.  I will certainly put some away though to test this notion and report back in 5-6 years.  So stay tuned I guess....

So what's better, Cubans or Non-Cubans?  Really, neither.  Just different.  Depends on the make/model and end user's preferences.  Determining the best cigar is really no different than picking the best car.  You figure it out for your needs.  I have to say that for myself, the Cuban experience of power and richness does speak to a more reminiscent experience and time in my life.  So given the choice of a false dilemma, I suppose I would tend to reach for a Habano even with all the uncertainty and surprise that could follow.  Since most of my favorite NCs are kept for their Cubanesque profiles, I imagine that isn't a surprise either.

 :)p5
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on December 16, 2014, 07:51:14 AM
Forgot to mention I had a Montecristo Platinum 1999 last week. Wow. Probably the most boring and bland cigar I've ever had. Nothing offensive, nothing worthy of note. Keep in mind I can usually appreciate a straight forward cigar. Best to grab a couple and stuff them into an incense burner to partially simulate a quality cigar experience. At least leaves your mouth and taste buds available for a something with superior flavor like a Slim Jim.

65/100 on first impression. My scores would tend to be at least 10 points lower than Cigar Aficionado. Second confirmation review to come at a later date. Was near 6 months in the humi while cello'd.
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on December 20, 2014, 03:49:48 AM
Crazy good deal for anyone interested. Basically $2.99 per for one of the best cigars out there in the $7-$10 range

http://www.cigarsinternational.com/cigars/88557/aging-room-quattro-f55/#p-170392
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Ringingears on December 20, 2014, 11:04:39 PM
Hey Anax, maybe Obama just opened up the Cuban cigar market here. I had a couple in Canada a few years ago. One was shit, the other was very nice, expect for the people around me.  :-[   :vomit:
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on December 21, 2014, 09:25:40 AM
Didn't really open it up. Only $100 worth of Cuban tobacco allowed to be brought back during travel.
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Ringingears on December 21, 2014, 09:31:35 AM
It may take a little while, but when Big  Tobacco  sees how much money they can make I'm sure the new Congress will change the import rules! Or not. Wait, $$$ vs. ethics. What am I saying!  :)p13
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on December 29, 2014, 01:46:00 AM
Montecristo Afrique Jambo (first impression):

Oh man, just tried a Montecristo Afrique Jambo. Kicked my butt! Oh gawd, the nicotine nausea and lightheadedness. I don't even inhale but will occasionally take in some second had off the nose for aroma's sake. This thing is the strongest cigar I've ever smoked in pure nicotine power, and this was with a full stomach. I could only make it through an inch and a half before I had to stop otherwise pass out. Wow. Could be me and/or the cigar. Will have to revisit at a later date.

Wrapper is supposedly a vintage Cameroon which I don't doubt since it was less sweet and sucralose tasting like more modern Cameroons. Fillers are Nicaraguan, Peruvian and possibly Tanzanian as well from what I could gather. Straight away upon lighting it had a more old school and unique and sharp earthiness I recall from late 90's tobacco which reminded me of some Partagas Cifuentes I used to smoke back in the day. That was a welcome surprise. Definitely an earth (not dirt like some modern earthy cigars), char and black pepper on the palate. I thought what little I was able to make it through was pleasant enough and brought back some old memories so it worked out though short lived. The burn and draw was just right for my tastes also.

I'll revisit it again and likely do a comprehensive side by side comparison versus the CAO Columbia which is another Cameroon but with a new breed of Columbian and Brazilian filler (assuming the power of this sample parejo was an outlier). 

Boy did I get pwn'd.  :spank:
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: MuppetFace on March 14, 2015, 10:24:29 AM
Any recommendations for where to start with cigars?
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on March 14, 2015, 05:06:04 PM
Any recommendations for where to start with cigars?

(click to show/hide)

TLDR:

Grab an original My Father Robusto for quality construction and flavor. See how that works out for ya. Make sure you slow roast the foot gently till the whole bottom turns cherry red (when you blow on it) before you snip the cap. That's how I do it. You don't want to char the tobacco and let that nastiness carry throughout the cigar and pollute it if that makes sense.
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: twifosp on March 16, 2015, 02:05:34 PM
I only have about 2 a month and lately I've just been buying Ashton VSGs (enchantment size).  They are probably over priced, but they seem to agree with me.  By that I mean some cigars that I even like the flavor of, give me a cigar mouth that I don't like.  Someone once told me that the pH balance of the tobacco has a lot to do with that, but I have no idea if that is true or not.  It sounds like a reasonable thing, but I don't see how anyone figures out the pH balance of a cigar, so it sounds kind of like some made up thing.  I should probably find the changstar of cigar forums and geek out. 

I keep trying new sticks here, but I pick them at random.  I have no idea how to take the properties of what I do like and find that in another cigar I haven't tried. 

Cigar experts, what should I also try? 
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on March 16, 2015, 03:22:14 PM
I have no idea how to take the properties of what I do like and find that in another cigar I haven't tried. 

Construction and composition! Look at what is used for the wrapper, binder, filler, and how and where the tobacco is grown, I tend to find myself trying a cigar and noting various flavors or attributes telling me which region the cigar came from and what wrapper, binder or filler is being used.

For example, Cameroon wrappers have a very refined sweetness that's borderline like a processed sugar. Ecuadorian Sumatra has a sweetness but is deeper and richer than a Cameroon bringing floral, caramel and sometimes fruit notes. E. Habano is an earthier, more leathery, earth, with some nut and wood flavor. Connecticut is a very classic mild nut and wood without the deeper leather and earth. Maduro is a more espresso, chocolate tasting wrapper tat can vary widely depending on whether it's a Padron maduro or a typical St. Andres maduro from Mexico. A green candela is sweet but has a more robust sugar than Cameroons with an herbal undertone.I love a good high quality Honduran Corojo as they hit a blend of Cuban Habano triggers for me. Then you have sun grown, shade grown, high priming and mid/lo priming leaves. The debate about the merits of ligero and non-ligero fillers, etc., etc. Some also feel a wrapper with more tooth and texture will provide a heartier and more robust flavored smoke.

Also the shapes of the cigar will dictate which leaves will be used and how they will be composed in that particular model and shape. Different sizes can usually have their flavor profiles within the models in question. It's really all simple chemistry and physics of how ratios change and are subject to varying enthalpy (thermal change and combustion properties).

Water content is also a seriously big deal which affects all the above. The level of humidification and rest time is crucial. Water affects the rate of burn and flavor profile. I tend to find when humidity is too high, the combustion process seems to add bitterness to the cigar wrecking it. It also makes it harder to stay lit. You also cause the leaves to swell and potentially crack. Too low and the flavor and sweetness gets neutered, and once again cracking of the wrapper. You want that perfect balance which for me is around 65-68% depending.

So look at the cigar you like and learn everything you can about it. Then try to find something as similar as possible and note any differences as they variables change.
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: twifosp on March 16, 2015, 06:02:15 PM
Thanks for the primer!  I'll have to keep a note of what properties I like to research others.  I guess I should find out more about Ecuadorian Sumatra.  Truth be told I've never tasted a difference in shapes, but I probably don't smoke enough to be able to notice.

The level of humidification and rest time is crucial. Water affects the rate of burn and flavor profile.

Interesting, this is the first I'm hearing about resting cigars.

I noted that if I buy a VSG and smoke it right when I get home that it tends to taste a little off.  Maybe too acrid.  I had no idea what to chalk this up to.  When I let it sit in my humidor for a while, I like the taste better, it is less acrid and sweeter.  I found this counter intuitive because my humidor isn't very well regulated.  Not being a huge collector I only keep 6-10 at a time and my humidor and humidifier are pretty low rent.  I don't measure the humidity, I just refill the liquid on a periodic basis.  To me it seems like the cigar should have its best humidity coming straight from my cigar shop's humidor. 

It's entirely probable it does have its best humidity coming from the shop, and maybe my palette / preference is unrefined. 
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on March 16, 2015, 09:08:10 PM
Thanks for the primer!  I'll have to keep a note of what properties I like to research others.  I guess I should find out more about Ecuadorian Sumatra.  Truth be told I've never tasted a difference in shapes, but I probably don't smoke enough to be able to notice.

Interesting, this is the first I'm hearing about resting cigars.

I noted that if I buy a VSG and smoke it right when I get home that it tends to taste a little off.  Maybe too acrid.  I had no idea what to chalk this up to.  When I let it sit in my humidor for a while, I like the taste better, it is less acrid and sweeter.  I found this counter intuitive because my humidor isn't very well regulated.  Not being a huge collector I only keep 6-10 at a time and my humidor and humidifier are pretty low rent.  I don't measure the humidity, I just refill the liquid on a periodic basis.  To me it seems like the cigar should have its best humidity coming straight from my cigar shop's humidor. 

It's entirely probable it does have its best humidity coming from the shop, and maybe my palette / preference is unrefined. 


Yeah, particularly if you compare a Gordo to a Lonsdale or Corona. Not only does the size change what size and picking of leaves the rollers use, but it changes the ratio of wrapper to filler leaf. Many say the wrapper accounts for 70% of the flavor, I think it's closer to 55% and it's really dependent on how you smoke since your nose affects your palate. I don't try to inhale or retrohale myself, though sometimes the second hand is so delicious it's hard not to take a sniff. That's not quite as bad since the temperature is lower producing less combustion by-products.

On the resting, I find B&M stores to over humidify for my tastes. I agree that often smoking right from the store often yields an acrid and less than pleasant experience. Part of that, particularly with shipped cigars, is the shock and disparity of the internal humidity and temp to the external environment as it's trying to constantly equalize. What happens is you can get an unevenness. It's essentially a living plant still to degree. It's physical structure adheres rules of diffusion and fermentation is persistently ongoing. It you smell hints ammonia from a cigar or a humidor that's the fermentation cycle still ongoing. Resting is a great way to just give it a day or two for the cigar to stabilize. Their is also something called dry boxing. If you find your cigars over humidified or acrid sometimes, just put the one you want to smoke in an empty old cigar box in a cool temperate room for a few days to a week and then try it. You might notice a difference.

How fast and how hot you get a cigar also can yield a burnt and bitter taste. There's an ideal temp at which you want to light and smoke tobacco. For example, think of the sugars in BBQ sauce. You want to finish with the sauce at the end of your grilling or smoking so the sugars don't burn and wreck the meat. You want just enough heat for the sugars to caramelize, but not burn (which is usually above 225F). Same with the sugars in tobacco, which is why it's ideal to slow roast the foot of a cigar with a low flame rather than blast it with a flame thrower till it turns to ash.

I think smoking straight from a shop yields a poor set of external conditions for a cigar. You have instant gratification so one will be impatient getting that thing going. If it's overhumidiifed you'll put more heat to the cigar for longer and chances are you had the store cut the cap off before lighting if you don't have your personal gear on you.

The size and shape of your cap cut can also affect your flavor due to changes in air flow and burn rate. I've also seen small punch cuts sometimes concentrate tar to the point it starts oozing out the end wrecking the cigar (rare but nasty). I use a double guillotine for Figurados and a double V-cut in a cross pattern for others. That's all another story though.

Again, this is all IMHO and IME. YMMV.
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: twifosp on March 16, 2015, 09:52:58 PM
Great info!

As an avid BBQ smoker, (big green egg represent!) that analogy hits right home for me. 

You mentioned earlier in the thread that you cut your cigar after you light it.  That's a definite technique change for me, I always cut the cap and then light.  I light a big match and let that drift up into the bottom of the cigar and start to blow on it.  Then I get some puffing going to even it out. 

Do you use a match or a cigar lighter? 



Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on March 17, 2015, 12:00:02 AM
I was using cedar spills for awhile but it takes forever and you go through spills like crazy with the cap closed off. Now I use a torch in a 2-3 step process. I roast the foot at a long enough distance that the foot's color turns dark and I let it sit for a few minutes. Then I do it again till it begins to smolder and smoke and blow on it hopefully getting most of the foot red. Depending, I'll let it sit again and do it once more to make sure I get an even, consistent red hot glow. By the time I cut the cap, hopefully the temp is settled back a bit. I do a gentle purge first to evacuate any bad combustion compounds, then get it going with some puffs.
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: MuppetFace on March 21, 2015, 12:24:30 PM
Thanks for your reply, Anax. I'll answer your PM soon.

I could go for mild or full bodied. I like coffee, earthy flavors, and spicy flavors. Fruits are fine, but I'm not so big on nutty flavors. I'm not drinking these days (meds), so I'd prefer something that stands on its own. Though something that pairs well with coffee sounds good. Not sure how long I'd be able to spend with a cigar, as I'm not that experienced. I had a few cigars in college, but I've mostly smoked from a pipe or smoked kreteks. Right now I don't have a humidor, but I wouldn't mind investing in something to get me started.
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Stapsy on March 21, 2015, 05:55:58 PM
If you are looking for coffee/earth/spice I would recommend trying Brickhouse Robusto or Alec Bradley Black Market...solid entry level cigars IMO. I really like the Tatuaje cigars I have tried as well, but I am not as familiar with that brand. If you can find them, the Cuban Bolivar Royal Corona is the the best earthy/spicy cigar I have tried.

It can be hard to find a mild cigar that isn't creamy. Most cigars with lighter wrappers tend to follow that flavour profile. I have really enjoyed any of the Illusione cigars when I am in the mood for a more mild smoke. It is easygoing without being boring and doesn't have any of that creamy/nuttiness.

Like Anax said the biggest thing is to not overheat the cigar. If you start to smoke too fast you will lose all the subtleties and the cigar can turn acrid. Take your time and enjoy. I won't smoke any cigar unless I have a solid two hours to dedicate to it. That seems to be how long it takes me to smoke a standard size Robusto.

Don't be afraid to try different vitolas. I love the smaller ring gauges. They seem easier to keep lit when you smoke slow and the flavour from the different filler to wrapper ratio can be drastically different to the larger sizes.

Lastly I have had great success taking a sharp pocket knife and peeling the outer wrapper from the foot of the cigar without actually cutting into the filler. I got frustrated at how cutters would crush the end of the cigar and kill the airflow and read that this method was how tobacco workers would cut cigars when they were working in the fields. I have no idea if it is true but I have really enjoyed this method and gave away my high-end cutters because if it.
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: twifosp on March 29, 2015, 10:04:04 PM
Been wanting to explore more cigars and based on this thread I've recently picked up a wide variety of new cigars to try.  I usually just smoke Ashton VSGs as my go to but wanted to branch out. 

It's been awesome weather where I am this whole week.  Mountain Laurels are blooming in the back yard and it has been amazing outside, perfectly sunny at 70.  Perfect time to go on a "cigar tour" and I've smoked 5 cigars in 6 days.  My goal was to try different stuff and see where my tastes are.  Here are my notes, being a cigar noob feel free to chime in and tell me if I'm missing a boat somewhere.

Rocky Patel Royale Robusto

This one was right up my alley.  A lot like the VSGs I've been smoking.  Perfect tobacco spice, and good chocolate and espresso.  Will be getting more.

My Father Crema #3

Very nutty.  Despite not having a darker wrapper, it came off as a strong cigar for me. Went well with the bunnahabhain I paired with it.  If I go for this again will get a smaller size if it comes in one.

My Father 1922 Le Bijou

This stick was doomed from the start.  After removing the band, some of the adhesive pulled part of the outer wrapper off, so I started with a hole in the top of the leaf wrapper.  Never had a cigar where the band adhesive was attached to the leaf. 

It went out twice while smoking it and the way it burned was off.  It didn't burn to nice fine white ash.  The smoke was yellowy instead of blueish and the whole smoke was off.  I didn't like it very much.  Too much chemical and nicotine in the taste.  Too many things went wrong for me to say this is a bad cigar or not, but it wasn't for me.  I may try it again some day to see if the one I got was a lemon.  t.

Illusione MJ12

A pleasant smoke.  Mild but still a hint of tobacco spice.  Kind of boring over all.

Ashton ESG 22 salute

Being a VSG fan I always see this one next to the VSGs in the cigar store, but always pass it up.  At 22 bucks how can it be better than my good ole 12 dollar VSG?  I smoked this one today in the sun with some nice talisker scotch.  Loved it.  It's probably considered mild, but mild doesn't really describe it for me.  Subtle but complex is more accurate.  First cigar I've smoked that really had multiple flavor profiles.  On the inhale it was like a white tea, turning into a mild tobacco spice like pipe tobacco smells, and ultimately changing into nutty aftertaste.  A cigar this mild usually bores me, but this one was amazing.  I usually only smoke larger cigars a bit past halfway but I burned this one all the way to a nub. 

Verdict:  Just ordered a box and a new humidor to put them in.

Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: Anaxilus on March 30, 2015, 09:47:29 AM
Thanks for your reply, Anax. I'll answer your PM soon.

I could go for mild or full bodied. I like coffee, earthy flavors, and spicy flavors. Fruits are fine, but I'm not so big on nutty flavors. I'm not drinking these days (meds), so I'd prefer something that stands on its own. Though something that pairs well with coffee sounds good. Not sure how long I'd be able to spend with a cigar, as I'm not that experienced. I had a few cigars in college, but I've mostly smoked from a pipe or smoked kreteks. Right now I don't have a humidor, but I wouldn't mind investing in something to get me started.

I'd advise checking out the La Aroma de Cuba 'Mi Amor' lineup in a Belicoso shape or perhaps a Padron 1964 Maduro to get a feel fomr your flavor profile. If you like pipe tobacco, you could try something of an experimental cigar by AJ Fernandez called 'Spectre'. It's made with a Turkish pipe tobacco filler that's cured in various meat houses so they also have that smoky BBQ flavor as well. For another smoky type Texas BBQ smoke you could try a Kentucky Fire Cured from Drew Estate. If you want to try a coffee infused stick (sort of cheating if you ask me), there's the Java lineup in different coffee flavors. Some online retailers have build a bundle options where you can pick a humi, cutter, cigar sample into a discounted bundle. Try Cigar's International or Famous Smoke and have a look. I can give you more details on what to look for if interested.

Been wanting to explore more cigars and based on this thread I've recently picked up a wide variety of new cigars to try.  I usually just smoke Ashton VSGs as my go to but wanted to branch out. 

It's been awesome weather where I am this whole week.  Mountain Laurels are blooming in the back yard and it has been amazing outside, perfectly sunny at 70.  Perfect time to go on a "cigar tour" and I've smoked 5 cigars in 6 days.  My goal was to try different stuff and see where my tastes are.  Here are my notes, being a cigar noob feel free to chime in and tell me if I'm missing a boat somewhere.

Rocky Patel Royale Robusto

This one was right up my alley.  A lot like the VSGs I've been smoking.  Perfect tobacco spice, and good chocolate and espresso.  Will be getting more.

My Father Crema #3

Very nutty.  Despite not having a darker wrapper, it came off as a strong cigar for me. Went well with the bunnahabhain I paired with it.  If I go for this again will get a smaller size if it comes in one.

My Father 1922 Le Bijou

This stick was doomed from the start.  After removing the band, some of the adhesive pulled part of the outer wrapper off, so I started with a hole in the top of the leaf wrapper.  Never had a cigar where the band adhesive was attached to the leaf. 

It went out twice while smoking it and the way it burned was off.  It didn't burn to nice fine white ash.  The smoke was yellowy instead of blueish and the whole smoke was off.  I didn't like it very much.  Too much chemical and nicotine in the taste.  Too many things went wrong for me to say this is a bad cigar or not, but it wasn't for me.  I may try it again some day to see if the one I got was a lemon.  t.

Illusione MJ12

A pleasant smoke.  Mild but still a hint of tobacco spice.  Kind of boring over all.

Ashton ESG 22 salute

Being a VSG fan I always see this one next to the VSGs in the cigar store, but always pass it up.  At 22 bucks how can it be better than my good ole 12 dollar VSG?  I smoked this one today in the sun with some nice talisker scotch.  Loved it.  It's probably considered mild, but mild doesn't really describe it for me.  Subtle but complex is more accurate.  First cigar I've smoked that really had multiple flavor profiles.  On the inhale it was like a white tea, turning into a mild tobacco spice like pipe tobacco smells, and ultimately changing into nutty aftertaste.  A cigar this mild usually bores me, but this one was amazing.  I usually only smoke larger cigars a bit past halfway but I burned this one all the way to a nub. 

Verdict:  Just ordered a box and a new humidor to put them in.



Been curious about the Royale, VSG and ESG for some time now. Heard good things. Never tried a Bijou or Crema My Father yet. Sometimes the special editions are just a different profile with marketing be hind them rather than an 'upgrade'. Just like audio....
Title: Re: The stogie thread
Post by: smitty1110 on March 30, 2015, 01:13:11 PM
Wow, I was just checking the recently updated posts and ran across this thread. I've been moving from one sale/deal to another blindly trying out cigars, so this is actually quite the welcome discovery. I'll have to try some of the cigars mentioned in this thread. Thanks for the advice guys.