CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => IEM Measurements => Topic started by: Marvey on August 04, 2012, 04:54:29 AM
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Etymotic ER-4S Measurements
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=436.0;attach=3630;image)e (http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=436.0;attach=3630;image)
I actually kind of like these. Tonally they remind me of the AKG K701, but the 701s have this wierd plasticky sound which I could never get over. Also, despite the ER-4S' slight upward tilt, they do not sound cold or clinical, which I feel the 701s can be. Many HF's have applauded the ER-4S for their midrange tone, and I concur. Perhaps the broad 3kHz bump is boosting the harmonics with vocals. The midrange presentation is very similar to some of those full-range horn speakers with rising response.
Deep insertion is a must, but it still did not bring out the bass for me. I had to rely on EQ to boost the bass (including lower mids) to warm things up a little bit. These are an enjoyable listen if you don't mind the FR balance. I think most would prefer something bassier or warmer. I also felt there was a slight peak around 8kHz, which seems to be hinted at in the FR before the cutoff; but we don't see a significant trace of his on the burst decay. In any case, his peak wasn't bothersome.
The ER-4S are very inefficient IEMs, but I found them to sound good and work well without an amp, as opposed to something like the slightly more efficient UERM, which I feel needs an amp for it to open up. Maybe it's because the UERM has a crossover in the way.
Finally, the usual stuff applies: FR gets cutoff around 8-9kHz due to limitations of the coupler (it's just not accurate). Also R channel is moved down 1db on the FR chart to provide better viewing clarity of the individual responses.
Reminder: stuff past 9k is probably inaccurate. Especially the sharp peaks. Those peaks are the effect of the ear canal and the IEM. Personally I don't think they are heard as measured.
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The er6i was supposedly warmer. I wonder if those were flatter in actual response.
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were those discontinued?
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If you want to be bored to death there's always the MC5.
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I'm curious about this versus the Phonak Audeo 122 or whatever number it is. I've got a pair I can give to you for measurements if you have the time.
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were those discontinued?
http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er6i.aspx
looks that way. too bad since i've heard those were better than the budget models they have these days
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Deep insertion is a must, but it still did not bring out the bass for me. I had to rely on EQ to boost the bass (including lower mids) to warm things up a little bit.
Don't know if you still have these, but try them with a 75 ohm adapter, a la er4p, for a warmer tone.
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Interesting. I've always thought of getting a pair for their reputation. There's also the Fitear F111 which are supposedly a similar single-driver IEM, albeit more expensive.
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What hrtf?
Any chance of a P measurement?
P is probably my favourite canalphone, and eventually lead me to stax.
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A "P" is simply 75ohms in series with the "S" correct?
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Nope. I'm an idiot, had it the other way around: an S is a P + 75.
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3479/er4ser4p.png)
(http://en.goldenears.net/en/files/attach/images/108/246/011/0169472c52452e035a8962d8e886c9f0.png)
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/a/af/af81cab1_graphCompare.png)
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(http://cdn.head-fi.org/a/af/af81cab1_graphCompare.png)
I always wonder about Tyll's canalphone measurements. It always looks to me like he is using the HRTF for unblocked canals, when you actually need even more treble to sound "neutral" once your canals are blocked and the speaker is inside them (think of the occlusion effect whne you block your ears, I guess).
Not that I doubt their accuracy, I'm just wondering if he actually used the same HRTF, since he uses the same one for everything else.
The golden ears graph looks a lot closer to what I hear (with the exception that IMHO the etymotic has a bass deficiency - not in tonal balance, but it doesnt do too well with many kinds of bass that arent "round" for lack of a better word), and the difference between the two suggests a difference in the HRTF used.
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The golden ears graph looks a lot closer to what I hear (with the exception that IMHO the etymotic has a bass deficiency - not in tonal balance, but it doesnt do too well with many kinds of bass that arent "round" for lack of a better word), and the difference between the two suggests a difference in the HRTF used.
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The bass doesn't seem like it should be a problem but it sounds off. There's a good amount of detail there that's compromised by a kind of lack of impact. That's why I've been looking for a BA IEM with a bass boost for some time. Unfortunately so far I haven't found any that don't overdo it and boost into the mids.
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I should check to make sure compensation on this measurement was actually applied in the right amount. The boost at 2-3k does seem excessive to me and what I hear, although it's consistent with the HR graph. I do hear a peak at 8kHz though. I should post raw data too. Sooo much work.
I swear these sound very K701ish, at least tonally, not texturally.
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Hi all,
Frost tips and deep insertion (all the way 'till the cables touch your jawbone) solved my problems.
Now the P is bassy (!) and the S almost flat: can't spot peaks...
Learned a lot of stuff on the UDAUDA blog...
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Hi all,
Frost tips and deep insertion (all the way 'till the cables touch your jawbone) solved my problems.
Now the P is bassy (!) and the S almost flat: can't spot peaks...
Learned a lot of stuff on the UDAUDA blog...
Yup, that's exactly how I heard the two as well w/ my insertion. P was too bassy in an unrefined way and still had a sibilance peak that wouldn't go away for me. I've been an 'S' man twice. :-\
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I found sibilance at 8k which became difficult after about 30 minutes. Did the deep insertion thing too. Although bass extension was generally OK, I found the bass slam lacking. EQ did wonders for these though and they are actually on my list to acquire.
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Triple flange silicones or foam? I enjoyed my Klipsch oval bi flanges better I believe.
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I never got any decent results with any of the boxed tripple-flanges. Neither the small translucent nor the big grey were decent in terms of isolation or SQ.
The Ety-Foams were nice but they don't last quite long.
I should mention that I use the HF-5...
Right now I run them with a 75ohm adapter cord on custom portable cmoy with a (rockboxed) sansa clip+ with any options on default (no EQ) but the +7db bassboost option (rockbox) which levels some lower mids and upper bass as well (or default crossfeed and +5db bass-boost)
But now to the interesting part. I cut off the first section of the tripple-flange and put this small part behind the rest to basically create a bi-flange.
Side-note: reverse the small part behind the bi-flange to give it some support -> better seal.
http://i.imgur.com/VqstJ.jpg
here a pic to clear things up a bit.
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I found sibilance at 8k which became difficult after about 30 minutes. Did the deep insertion thing too. Although bass extension was generally OK, I found the bass slam lacking. EQ did wonders for these though and they are actually on my list to acquire.
mmmh... weird... I don't hear that... But I can hear for sure the nasty 9k peak in the Creative Aurvana Live so I'm not "deaf" or insensible at those freq...
What I hear looks more or less like the golden ears graph...
Must check...
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Triple flange silicones or foam? I enjoyed my Klipsch oval bi flanges better I believe.
Comply foam all the way
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Triple flange silicones or foam? I enjoyed my Klipsch oval bi flanges better I believe.
Comply foam all the way
which one, the original Ety-comply-foam?
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I found sibilance at 8k which became difficult after about 30 minutes. Did the deep insertion thing too. Although bass extension was generally OK, I found the bass slam lacking. EQ did wonders for these though and they are actually on my list to acquire.
mmmh... weird... I don't hear that... But I can hear for sure the nasty 9k peak in the Creative Aurvana Live so I'm not "deaf" or insensible at those freq...
What I hear looks more or less like the golden ears graph...
Must check...
Don't get me wrong. It's not excessive with ringing characteristics. Thought I should point this out.
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which one, the original Ety-comply-foam?
Comply Tx-100
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I found sibilance at 8k which became difficult after about 30 minutes. Did the deep insertion thing too. Although bass extension was generally OK, I found the bass slam lacking. EQ did wonders for these though and they are actually on my list to acquire.
mmmh... weird... I don't hear that... But I can hear for sure the nasty 9k peak in the Creative Aurvana Live so I'm not "deaf" or insensible at those freq...
What I hear looks more or less like the golden ears graph...
Must check...
Don't get me wrong. It's not excessive with ringing characteristics. Thought I should point this out.
Oh, ok. It's a matter of objectivity and precision... :-)
Since you stated that after 30 min is a problem... well, sounded like a nasty resonance...
Glad to know that there are some good trusty products around, deep buried in poo :)p13
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Nasty would be 3 minutes, not 30 minutes.
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Or 30 seconds.
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You know, I'm glad I haven't heard such razor blade references like T1... :)p8
Oh! wait, there's the MDR-7506... not a bad start...
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Interesting. I've always thought of getting a pair for their reputation. There's also the Fitear F111 which are supposedly a similar single-driver IEM, albeit more expensive.
currently doing some reading on these, have to say I'm definitely interested. looks like a much comfier and hopefully sturdier version of the ER4S.
but thinking I should go and listen to ER4S or Phonak 122 with the grey filter before I decide on anything.
is the impedance on these the same as ER4S?
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I should check to make sure compensation on this measurement was actually applied in the right amount. The boost at 2-3k does seem excessive to me and what I hear, although it's consistent with the HR graph. I do hear a peak at 8kHz though. I should post raw data too. Sooo much work.
I swear these sound very K701ish, at least tonally, not texturally.
So did you use the right one?
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If anyone is interested, I highly suggest the ER-4S with the Headstage Arrow 4G. Superb matching. I have not tried the 3G so I can't comment on the older models of the Arrow.
Comply for me seems to dull down the treble to uncomfortable levels. For foams, I suggest Shure Olives over Comply. I like using the large Tri-Flange tips, but not everyone is comfortable with the immense depth of insertion.
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anal have 3G + 4G. Leck 2 gooder. Arrow SLIM! Many feature! Life upgrade!