CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Marvey on October 19, 2014, 04:08:57 AM
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I'm a little bit of Sony fanboy, having grew up with Walkmans (cassette) and stuff. So when Sony announced the MDR-Z7, I couldn't wait to get my hands on one. Now being a fanboy doesn't mean that I need to be an idiot. I went in fully cognizant that the MDR-Z7 would probably sound like about 50%-60% the price (USA). Then again, having a "Changstar Proper Price Point" of 50% of retailer price is pretty decent given the price inflation of all the other headphones other there.
PRE-MEASUREMENT SUBJECTIVE IMPRESSIONS
The Z7 is definitely somewhere along the lines of the two prior Sony headphones I've tested: MA900 and MDR-1R. Timbre is similar. Similarities in frequency response in terms of increasing bass sloping upwards from the mids (with the MA900 dropping like a rock after the mid-bass, so really closer to MDR-1R). All three of these 'phones mentioned are slightly laid-back in the mids with a deeper depression in the upper mids. This is easily noted by lack of bite, edge, crunch, or shrillness. The MA900 in comparison is a bit brighter throughout the entire treble region. The treble (and actually all other) characteristics of the Z7 is actually most similar to that of the 1R. I think it's fair to say that the Z7 is a 1R that doesn't fall apart at higher volumes.
I could hear a small bump a little after 7kHz. I figure that spot because it's similar to the "problem" spot of the TH900, but pushed up a little bit in frequency. However with the Z7, this spike is not what I would call problematic. It's more rounded and less in amplitude of the TH900's spike. Sharp ears will hear it. Most people will not - mainly because of the elevated bass which reaches into the mids. The TH900 bass lift is very much localized in the sub and low bass with a suckout in the lower mids. The Z7 bass emphasis bleeds into the mids ever so slightly. It does relax a bit going down to 20-40Hz instead of getting crazier and crazier like the TH900 as we go lower. From mid-treble up to the air region, the Z7 is gentle.
Using EQ by ear, I reduced pushed down a broad region (Q=1.2) around 80Hz by 4db and pushed up 4.5khz 3db with a Q of 3. That seemed to do the trick. It's good to know that the Z7 responds to a few PEQ adjustments extremely well.
Imaging isn't super deep like an HD800, but seamless without being excessively wide. Good stable center image without a three-blob effect where there are gaps between the sides and center.
In terms of technicalities (resolution, precision, tautness, clarity), I'd say it's about on par with the W1000, W3000 drivers. A little bit more plankton in mids. A little bit more soft and indistinct in bass. Compared to TH900, the TH900 is just cleaner sound with better blackground - the Z7 comes off as a bit grey. (IME is subjective attribute correlates strongly with distortion.) The Z7 is not what I would consider a Summit-Fi headphone. But I need to balance the connection to see what it can do with the Rag's balanced outputs (the Rag's SE output is gimped). BTW, Sony does an extra set of cables: their version of balanced cables with two phono connectors. Terminating to 4-pin XLR should be easy.
It might be interesting to apply some mods. Lots of plastic, so I wonder if some mass loading will help "tighten up" then sound.
Comfort is superb. The adjustment mechanism is Sony at its best.
Measurements: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1839.msg49936.html#msg49936 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1839.msg49936.html#msg49936)
Pictures: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1839.msg49934.html#msg49934 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1839.msg49934.html#msg49934)
Effect of covering ports: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1839.msg49995.html#msg49995 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1839.msg49995.html#msg49995)
Internals and modding potential: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1839.msg49999.html#msg49999 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1839.msg49999.html#msg49999)
Modded measurements: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1839.msg50008.html#msg50008 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1839.msg50008.html#msg50008)
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pictures
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Regardless of the sound, the finish on these headphones is really good.
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Measurements.
Bass isn't all that clean. Better than Denon D series, but short of the quality bass heard on the TH900. At least they are not horrible. However, I would have liked better quality bass from a closed headphone.
Fit, finish, ergo are top-shelf.
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In terms of technicalities (resolution, precision, tautness, clearity), I'd say it's about on par with the W1000, W3000 drivers.
Huh, I've always considered the AT woodies to be quite poor in technicalities. Or maybe they have good technicalities but they're masked by the strange tuning and design. Regardless, I would hope that if Sony is putting some engineering muscle into designing a speshal driver it would have better technicalities than those.
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I do wonder if they took a tweaked version of the MA900 drivers and stuck them in a cup. The drivers are HUGE!
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Don't think I want one anymore.
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And I keep telling myself not to buy one. Measurements look pretty good.
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It's late. I'll balance the connectors and give it another go tomorrow. My frame of reference in terms of technicalities has been HD800 lately.
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I think it's fair to say that the MA900 is a 1R that doesn't fall apart at higher volumes.
wait, what? My ma900 was distorted even in regular volume levels way below 100db
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CSDs? Looks good so far. My friends suspected I would not like it since I do like the technicalities of the HD800 and it seems to be so from your impressions.
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That bass distortion is really displeasing. Looks like nomax was right.
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That bass distortion is really displeasing. Looks like nomax was right.
Looks like you haven't heard it for yourself to make that decision.
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Went to listen to the Z7 earlier at the Sony building in Ginza. I was able to use my music files, but out of a balanced sony PHA-3 (ES9018 dac) via OTG.
Subjective impressions were that I thought it was neutral overall, but had some technical issues. The treble lacked a little sparkle or detail, probably due to the 4khz dip. The low bass was accurate enough, but lacking in detail and texture. Overly polite, but not distorted sounding. It might have been the source, but compared to Marv's impressions I found the imaging to be good enough horizontally, but there was no depth to the music. In fact vocals sounded a bit hollow. I actually think the MA900 (distorted or not), might be more preferable to my tastes because of its treble and better depth.
The thing is though, here it's sold for 55,000 JPY, around $515 so I actually find the price to alright since it seems to be around the same level as the old denon D2000 but with a totally different sound. It doesn't really compare to the flagships from Senn and Hifiman.
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The bass I would describe as soft and not well defined. It's not muddy, lacking control, or farty. Subjectively on par with HD600/650 bass.
The MA900 does have better depth. Polite but not distorted is a good way to describe the Z7.
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Hm.. I would say it's vastly better than HD600/650 bass which is only decent in the mid-bass. Anything lower results in pillow-type impact.
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Yes. HD600 seems to be less controlled and flubby, especially when going down low, but has more bass texture from the mid-bass on up. The better texture of HD600 could a function of better FR - less of a slope / depressed treble.
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I'm interested in how the measruements differ with the vents plugged up.
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that's on my to do list. there are two vents. One up top and one below.
CSDs: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1839.msg49936.html#msg49936
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CSD is good for closed, not the best.
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Thanks for the impressions and measurements. Did you try these in balanced setup?
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Regarding measurements, overall curve of the response is not bad looking. Probably something I'd enjoy. I'd like to see some things smoothed and filled out, in particular that 7KHz emphasis looks like it could be toned down a bit. That treble spot would probably annoy me. I can see the similarities compared to the HD600 when it comes to bass distortion. My guess is these can probably be improved with damping and other mods, like pretty much every other headphone. CSDs look pretty good above the upper-mids.
Thanks for sharing!
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hmm I was kinda hoping these would be a good upgrade to the MDR-1R (modded) for portable use but I'm not sure they seem like a great portable.
measurements look alright and CSD looks good. I'm definitely going to have to go and hear them some time. comfort of sony headphones has got me all cozy.
impressed you got these measured so quick and all that, thanks a lot!
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Went to listen to the Z7 earlier at the Sony building in Ginza. I was able to use my music files, but out of a balanced sony PHA-3 (ES9018 dac) via OTG.
Subjective impressions were that I thought it was neutral overall, but had some technical issues. The treble lacked a little sparkle or detail, probably due to the 4khz dip. The low bass was accurate enough, but lacking in detail and texture. Overly polite, but not distorted sounding. It might have been the source, but compared to Marv's impressions I found the imaging to be good enough horizontally, but there was no depth to the music. In fact vocals sounded a bit hollow. I actually think the MA900 (distorted or not), might be more preferable to my tastes because of its treble and better depth.
The thing is though, here it's sold for 55,000 JPY, around $515 so I actually find the price to alright since it seems to be around the same level as the old denon D2000 but with a totally different sound. It doesn't really compare to the flagships from Senn and Hifiman.
Could you listen to the xba-z5, the flagship iems, and report back, please?
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TOP GRAPH: Z7 - small top vent covered. Gray line is original.
BOTTOM GRAPH: Z7 - big bottom vent covered. Gray line is original.
I did not like covering the bottom vent. Results in too much of that "hollow" sound - probably internal cup reflections and also makes that treble peak much more evident. The soft nature of the bass doesn't gel with with the reduced amplitude.
Covering the top vent yielded decent results. While graph does look nice and straight, I think that slight depression subjectively helps in not having the bass bleed into the mids.
Covering both vents is a bad idea, hence not pictured.
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So is covering the bottom vent the "Stax mod"? Any perceivable change in low end distortion using the holes?
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Slight measurement differences ~5db @20-30Hz, but too close to call. I feel confident with repeating FR measurements. No so with distortion, especially with kids running around the house. Subjectively, maybe - but again too close to call.
Huge modding potential though. I think the sound can be made much "tighter". See pics below. No damping material. Thin plastic cups. Surprising, not as hollow or reverberant as many other closed headphones. Baffle the driver rests on is extremely lightweight.
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OMG that driver! WOW.
Thin plastic cups, no damping materials...several hundred dollars. Hooray...But modding is always fun.
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And yields pretty good results. I applied some very simple mods:
- Dynamat in a few select places on back of driver and on the baffle.
- None on the cups.
- Acoustic fiber slightly compressed in the cups. (NOT THE SAME THING AS COTTON)
Much tighter sound now, less soft. Note bass is pushed down about 3-4db. Just perfect. Smoother peaks and dips.
No more of that hollow reverb stuff.
Good plankton now.
Bass is better.
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So, pre modded and post modded, what is the Chang approved price?
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Well they sure look neat though!
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hnnng now I'm even more curious about trying these with the mods. I really hope they'll drop in price some time :p
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So, pre modded and post modded, what is the Chang approved price?
Still trying to sort my thoughts out. I'm without my main DAC for a while, so everything, including the HD800, doesn't quite sound up to snuff. I will say that the effect of mods is significant (-4db drop across the bass should be after all, and as you can see, there is nothing inside those cups to prevent that hollow or cupped hands coloration).
With mods, the Z7 is solid upper mid-fi vying for the next level. What prevents the jump to "Summit-Fi" is lack of ultimate clarity and transient response. The FR with the mods is top-notch - not totally neutral, but a warm relaxed sound. There's the argument that with mods, this may better than TH900 because we already know more than a few people go eventually got sick of that TH900's treble spike and sold theirs.
I can see myself using this at work because it looks like a normal headphone and doesn't look retarded from a layman's POV. As munch said above, the Z7 will be more compelling once the price goes down.
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I think I will have to let myself buy one when I see them used. Selling my K550 and thinking about selling the HD600 to free up cash and space in the stables. It's not really a question of affording it, rather I shouldn't buy one. I know the HD800 sounds 'better' with significant gear behind it, but I did enjoy the Z7s even just on my tablet. After all this time it took Sony to come out with the angled driver 'fun' phones to make something less able than HD800s worth listening to. I never understood 'fun' phones before, but with the MA900s and now Z7s I do.
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Based on impressions here so far, seems like a $300-$400 value proposition once modded? I get the feeling that the TH900 still has better clarity than the Z7? Would be a shame since the SA5000 has excellent overall clarity.
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Good work!
(What on earth is the white stuff covering most of the area behind the driver?)
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Based on impressions here so far, seems like a $300-$400 value proposition once modded? I get the feeling that the TH900 still has better clarity than the Z7? Would be a shame since the SA5000 has excellent overall clarity.
Half the retail value? I think that might be a record. TH900 has more bass, more wubwub going on. Couldn't stand it.
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Based on impressions here so far, seems like a $300-$400 value proposition once modded? I get the feeling that the TH900 still has better clarity than the Z7? Would be a shame since the SA5000 has excellent overall clarity.
Seems about right. More plankton than SA5000, but a bit grey. Slower than SA5000, which was snappy.
Good work!
(What on earth is the white stuff covering most of the area behind the driver?)
Paper/weave, etc. It's typical for the back of headphone drivers to be covered with paper/felt-like material.
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Putting this on the loaner program:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1845.msg50093.html#msg50093
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Good stuff, Marv, thanks. Mine are on the way.
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Good stuff, Marv, thanks. Mine are on the way.
Great. Can't wait for your plots and review.
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Tyll has his Z7 measurements up:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelity-update-november-2014
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Tyll has his Z7 measurements up.
Surprisingly good distortion up top, I wonder how they accomplished that with a metal driver. Every metal-coated driver I've heard thus far has had some upper midrange/treble issues of some sort (Ultrasone, anyone?)
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Every metal-coated driver I've heard thus far has had some upper midrange/treble issues of some sort (Ultrasone, anyone?)
This was not uncommon in car audio speakers either.
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Little bit worried about the distortion in the mids. At least it's more even than say the HE400.
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Tyll has his Z7 measurements up:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelity-update-november-2014
The graphs look pretty similar to the Shure 1540s minus the distortion graph at 100db.
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Got my first (single ended) Z7 experience.
Setup: F2k-> Sony UDA-1-> Z7
First impression:
Comfort: Grade A :)p1
Built: Sturdy. Considerably good for home use.
Look: Sexy black. Likey.
Sound:
Is this MDR-1R on steroid? :)p2 That house sound is instantly recognized. Soundstage isn't really particularly wide. Quite intimate, and on some tracks I found the positioning rather awkward. Maybe I haven't get used to it?
Bass is plentiful and slow. Decay is there. So is this purposefully to create the "air", I wonder? :)p3On some tracks when particularly loud, there's some distortions (?) I think.
Dark sounding. Treble is (suppressed?) to mask certain flaws on songs, reminding me of the HD650 veil (not necessary true, just reminding me). Less transparent to my ears as a result.
Vocals are smooth. But Livingston Taylor's whistle is clear and sharp (a little bit piercing ala Beyerdynamic T70 sharp). Fun.
Hopefully can try and compare the balanced mode on PHA-3 soon.
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cool. thanks for sharing. are you going to try modding them, phillip88?
if they are like mdr-1r pre-mod 'stock'... yeah. maybe mods will make them more like my modded 1r.
so curious. the 1R aren't exactly built like tanks, worried they'll break soon. :p these would be a nice upgrade/replacement.
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Some rough subjective impressions:
First impressions / Mini-Review:
Comfort – 8.5/10
These are some of the most comfortable headphones I’ve worn. Almost perfect clamping pressure, large ear cavity, plush pads, and very well designed cable hang. This would have been a perfect 10 was it not for very slightly too much clamping pressure (being picky here) and the stock cable being a bit unwieldy. I’ve worn these headphones for a 6-7 hour session without any fatigue. Very nice in regards to comfort.
Presentation/Build – 8/10
Solid build and presentation overall. Nothing extravagant, but simple yet elegant. I like how they included a couple of cables even though one of them is deemed useless unless you buy into their Sony universe series of products (balanced cable). If you’re handy, you can re-terminate the cable with a 4-Pin XLR. Both cables are well made but a build unwieldy. I’d hope for something slightly shorter and more flexible. Moving on to the build, I’d say really nice. I like how all stress areas (this is key) are metal and not plastic. These are very much a home listening product, but being a semi-closed headphone, some are bound to travel or even be crazy enough to walk around with them. Construction is solid, looks are sleek and unadulterated.
Sound leakage/isolation – 7/10
Wanted to add this section because I’m sure some are wondering. These actually isolate pretty well. They have enough clamp and a decent vacuum that I was unable to hear much around me. Not as good as the better full-sized headphones (Paradox, Mad Dog, just to name a few) but I’d say better than the Denon/Fostex series. Leakage wise, these do leak but not as much as one would think. Being semi-closed, I’d say they are fine for an office but not for bedroom listening if you don’t want to bother a significant other.
Sound (for the money) – 8/10
Here were my first impressions I shared with someone that was interested. I know his tastes pretty well, and I share most of his thoughts on a lot of gear. We both don’t have time nor money to be throwing on mediocre:
“I know you wanted me to let you know if I think you'll like them. Here are my initial thoughts.
Setup: Wyrd > GO450 > Z7
Pros:
+Ease of presentation - Not much wrong in terms of their presentation. Nice, polite sounding headphone without much in terms of tonal oddities. I would a good sound for laid-back listening and/or office droning.
+Ability to sound fairly open while being able to isolate outside noise. These have an airy, light sound to them which is missing with many closed headphones. I think this quality ties in to the polite and "light" sound that I'm hearing. Staging quality is also good, center image is present, placement is good but width is lacking compared to the Slants. They also do a surprisingly good job at isolating noise. Leakage is better than I thought, it being semi-open. I would say similar in leakage and isolation to the Mad Dog and Momentum. Again, good for the office space.
+Overall tonal balance is acceptable. I haven't done the mods, but even without the mods... these don't do much wrong in terms of annoying me.
+Comfortable - Very much so. One of the most comfortable headphones I've worn... soft pads, soft headband. They do have a clamp, but I suspect with some wear they will stretch out a bit.
Cons:
-Lack of slam and impact. I want to say these have that same "limp-dick" type bass the Oppo's have but that's not exactly it. I think what it really is a lack of texture.
-Somewhat mid-fi sounding lacking refinement even compared to the HD600. On initial listening, I got the impression there was a slight veil that isn't bothersome, but expected better for the price and a supposed flagship spot.
-They could stand a bit more involvement: an engaging presence that pulls you in. So far I can't say for sure, but they sound a bit flat. I'd like more sub-bass and low bass extension and more involving treble (not enough sparkle or pop... too relaxed).
-Extension isn't the best, similar to the MA900 in that way.
(Value): I'd say overall, a good buy at $500ish via PriceJapan. That's what I paid. Bottom line though, Slants put the smack down on these headphones. Other than comfort, the Z7 are definitely a step or two down. The Slants are just more refined, better balanced, and more fun.”
I still feel the same way for the most part. I will say that in comparison to other closed headphones that I’ve kept as my reference, these are somewhat dark. They aren’t extremely lacking like the older Audezes, but they do have a warm presence that may not be appreciated. These aren't perfect and I'm really eager to see what the mods do.
More to come when I get my pair back from Marv…
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working on it right now actually.
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cool. thanks for sharing. are you going to try modding them, phillip88?
if they are like mdr-1r pre-mod 'stock'... yeah. maybe mods will make them more like my modded 1r.
so curious. the 1R aren't exactly built like tanks, worried they'll break soon. :p these would be a nice upgrade/replacement.
Nah, those are just demo unit. I doubt enthusiasts here are keen on modding. Well, what exactly improved after mod on your 1r?
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ahh right.
bass tightness, balance, midbass not as overwhelming. however treble could be a little gritty grainy, but it is at stock too so... not really sure how it was affected by mod. just more noticeable du to less bass maybe.
and it seems puri made this possible with his modded Z7, so it just seems like a good mod if you think the bass is overwhelming.
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OK, spent more time with the Z7 (I'm assuming still modded) today from a variety of DAC/amps that I have on hand. The first night I tried them, I thought they sounded OK from my phone, but I didn't listen too long or closely. After some dedicated time with them, I've decided I really don't care for them. I must have been in a more forgiving mood the first night I listened, hehe.
I've heard quite a few describe these as a bit laid-back, but I do not hear that at all. Even from a warm, mushy NOS DAC and a couple different nothing-super-special amps, the Z7 sounds somewhat shrill, metallic, and even a bit bright to my ears. There's some sort of upper-mid and/or treble peak, if not a slight bit of resonance (sometimes my ears mix up peaks and resonance).
Bass seems OK. Extends well but despite the measured emphasis has less kick than I expected. Gets a bit indistinct the lower it goes. Otherwise seems fairly balanced.
Upper treble response seems pretty good. Fairly clean and fairly good at detail retrieval, probably the main area of potential here. I liked what the headphone did for cymbals, though the tone issues I mentioned above did hinder this.
Sound can be a bit nasally at times, or, at least, that's how I want to describe it. Soundstage and imaging seem pretty decent, probably another area of potential.
Looks, finish, feel, comfort...all top notch, of course. I like the cables and cup connectors. This sort of stuff makes me want to like the Z7 more, but they just hurt my ears pretty quickly due to how they sound to me. I would like to hear these from a nicer, more powerful amp than what I had to use it with, but I suspect that won't change my mind much. I think with some additional tuning, these might make for a good mid-fi headphone. As they are now, though, they're not for me. Maybe I'd be a loaner in preferring them without the current mods in them? Haha.
I've got quite a few things on my plate this weekend, so I only had time to take a few quick measurements from the left channel. They all looked pretty consistent, so I just picked one. I think it's the weirdness from roughly 700Hz to 3 or 4KHz that bothers my ears most. CSDs don't look bad but might indicate some extra resonance around 1KHz.
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Just obtained a Z7, so chiming in with some thoughts.
I pretty much agree with hans, upon first listen out of my phone, these sound... diffused, slow, and a bit bunched up together. Dark and really peaky at the same time, not relaxed at all, contrary to what I have been reading.
Then upon closer listening, I realized there was probably resonance around the 2-4KHz area, because my ATH-ES10 also suffered from this. From research, it sounded like resonance around the front of the driver.
And then there is another peak in the treble, I think... around 7-8KHz, since it's not piercing (so not between 8-10KHz), and not sibilant/flaring (so not between 6-7KHz). Upper midrange also sounds a bit forward... likely due to an elevated 4KHz area, but this sounded slightly below that.
Bass sounded really resonant... and bled into low mids really obviously.
Then I plugged it into my DIY amp, and it was a bit better. Background is much less grey, and more black, but even my ATH-ES10 was better in this regard.
So I couldn't stand it and applied some front damping mods... namely felt in the small rising ridge that creates the slight angle with the ear pads, and shelf-liner (the same kind used in the HE-560) in order to absorb reflection.
That fixed the upper mid peak and lower treble peaks for me. Happy camper now.
Will probably attempt dynamat mods pushed to the extreme now to see how much tighter they can become, but will also most likely leave the back hollow since I think the drivers need that breathing room in order to reproduce bass.
Upon first listen through phone, bass was indeed really light and lacking impact, but with my amp, not so at all. Bass was a bit too much at times. Even my modded HE-560 wasn't that bassy. So it looks like these want to be driven by a powerful amp.
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but will also most likely leave the back hollow since I think the drivers need that breathing room in order to reproduce bass.
Acoustic fiber (not cotton or random fluffy materials) effectively expands the volume inside the cups.
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I'll have to give them a try. So far, any attempt to bring up the treble extremes (10KHz+) has been unfruitful. Improving the speed is also not proving to be possible either, as the Z7 seems to "need" all of the air in its chamber to reproduce any bass at all. I have tried to put various weird things in the chamber, and none of them has sounded the way I would like it to, though... putting reflection absorbers (shelf-liner) in specific places has helped.
Even after all of that, though, there is still a hardness, or dryness to vocals that I'm starting to think... only front damping can fix. Also soundstage still can't get super wide.
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I used toilet paper for front damping. Front damping is always tricky because you don't want to kill the sound like how those big felt discs did on the dog training kits for the Alpha Dog.
Did you try applying strips of dynamat extreme like materials (mass-loading / absorption) on the baffle on back of the driver (being careful not to cover the back vent)? That helped a little bit in terms of speed.
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Even after all of that, though, there is still a hardness, or dryness to vocals that I'm starting to think... only front damping can fix. Also soundstage still can't get super wide.
Blocking the area above the dome section of the diaphragm with acoustic foam on the ear side has helped me get rid of harsh trebles and standing waves without affecting the overall response too much. I noticed Sony does something like this in some models (V6, Z7 apparently also blocks the center), you may want to play with that instead of using felts, just a thought.
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Yeah, I tried dynamat. It seems to do the trick, but the reflections off of the aluminum surface causes some extra spike or resonance that I can detect (somehow the measurements don't really show it, so I'm guessing more resonance than spike). So for now, I'm only putting dynamat in specific spots.
I think the dry vocal can be traced to the hump around 2-4KHz... because my ATH-ES10 also had a hump around 1-2KHz (slightly lower) that causes a bit of harshness, but not as "dry" as the Z7.
Tried felt, foam, shelf liner, microfiber cloth of different thickness, etc... on top of the driver opening in various sizes and no dice. I think it's best to leave at least that opening, and probably reduce reflections around it with the plastic enclosure, the ridge, and the ear pads...
Well, going to keep experimenting. The Z7 really sounds very close to being perfect to me. The lack of blackground has been somewhat addressed now, so I'm happy. Initially, it does sound really grey, and that grey-ness actually persisted for a while until I learned that damping this headphone won't be the same as damping other headphones. Perhaps that's why Sony left the back completely open.
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Yeah, I tried dynamat. It seems to do the trick, but the reflections off of the aluminum surface causes some extra spike or resonance that I can detect.
Stick foam on top of the dynatmat metal liner and then felt on top of that. You don't need to overdo the dynamat. I just used a few tiny strips. Or if internal, adding acoustic fiber does absorb the reflections.
Ultimately, the Z7 is un-salvageable, even into the lower rungs a top-tier headphone.
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Okay, well, I think I'm getting closer using shelf-liner as reflection absorbers to leave a bit of space inside the ear cups. I wonder why the Z7 sounds like it "collapses" when that space is filled with... well, whatever. It's like the whole presentation mesh together and become a gooey soup rather than nicely spaced out like before.
And yet it doesn't sound cavernous or reverberant.
Oh, and tried to put foam and felt on dynamat, too. It made the sound... "warmer". So I'm putting shelf-liner there, too.
So far, only 2 things have helped with speed and clarity: dynamat, and shelf-liner.
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So, I was waiting to see Tyll's measurements, but... I figured, it'll be good to post these for peer reviews now anyway.
Here is my set of measurements on the modded Sony MDR-Z7. Distortions may not be accurate, but I'm posting for reference. FR and CSD seem in line with what I hear subjectively, so I think those are good.
This set is comparable to the other measurements I have posted recently (LCD-2 and ATH-M50) since they all use the same coupler. same microphone, etc...
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I'd have to see more headphones on your rig to get a good feel for it, but looks like it might be relatively balanced and perhaps a tad bright in some regards? I suppose it would really help to see how stock looked on your rig, but I believe you said you made some extensive changes, so I don't expect that.
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Yeah. That's why I'm waiting to see Tyll's measurements to see how they will correlate with mine.
Subjectively, this one doesn't sound all that bright. A bit dark, even. Certainly lacking energy in the treble relative to both the LCD-2 and HE-560. Perhaps it would be better to undo my mods for the HE-560 and then do some measurements to see how it'll look relative to Marv's.
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Yeah. That's why I'm waiting to see Tyll's measurements to see how they will correlate with mine.
Subjectively, this one doesn't sound all that bright. A bit dark, even. Certainly lacking energy in the treble relative to both the LCD-2 and HE-560. Perhaps it would be better to undo my mods for the HE-560 and then do some measurements to see how it'll look relative to Marv's.
Tyll's measurements on the Z7 have been up for months now :)
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDRZ7.pdf
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Oh, mine is kinda extensively modded, though, so it is quite different from stock.
It's en route to Tyll now, so we'll see his measurements one of these days. :)
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Stick foam on top of the dynatmat metal liner and then felt on top of that. You don't need to overdo the dynamat. I just used a few tiny strips. Or if internal, adding acoustic fiber does absorb the reflections.
Ultimately, the Z7 is un-salvageable, even into the lower rungs a top-tier headphone.
Hello, I am curious as to why the headphones went from "flawed but ok" to being unsalvagable? That seems like a pretty huge downgrade. thx.
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unsalvagable in terms of making it beyond mid-fi.
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thanks for the clarification! *reverts to lurking*