CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Non-Audio Stuff => The Geek Cave: Home Theatre, Computers, and More! => Topic started by: shipsupt on May 02, 2013, 06:14:38 PM
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It's no secret that I'm an Apple fan boy. I don't wait in line for new products or insist that there is no substitute for Apple products in every thread on the internet, but when it comes to me I use Apple stuff.
Here's the rub. I've agreed to reward my oldest son with a proper gaming PC for his good school work this year and basically I know jack sh_t about todays PCs.
I'm hoping that you can help a pirate out with some advice. I'm considering two routes:
1. Build it! - Fun project for the two of us. Rewarding. Potential to get better components for less. Any suggestions for some on-line guides or material list for shit hot gaming PCs? Maybe not worth the effort?
2. Grab one that's already packaged up and ready to go. This is the easy route if I can identify a good quality machine. Suggestions?
I'd really appreciate any guidance you guys could provide.
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Something I am actually well versed at!
I say build it. Then the ladies will come for sure.
I won't give specific parts recommendations but heed these warnings:
Don't spend too much on a video card. Anything under $300 will pretty much play everything; the PC games industry has been a sad trend of following console games for the past few years sad as it sounds.
For Processor cooling the recent trend in all in one watercooling units are convenient but for long-term use I still recommend a high end air cooler.
Don't overlook Solid State Hard drives. They really are that much faster than traditional hard drives but at a hefty premium.
Don't cheap out on the power supply. There are review sites that break down the psu's to dissect the parts quality of their internals along with commentary; make sure you find them.
Good luck!
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Thanks for the advice on cooling, somehow water cooled seemed much more sexy!
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(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2686/5792371191_107caaf9c5_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48217930@N02/5792371191/)
Help computer (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48217930@N02/5792371191/) by MrSneis (http://www.flickr.com/people/48217930@N02/), on Flickr
$3-400 more maybe. The reason why I don't recommend them is because the radiators need blowing out every now and then or they clog with dust and can cause a lot of overheating issues. If you setup airflow properly or perform regular dusting it's less of an issue but with air coolers it's less of an importance in the end. That and the general performance of a good air cooler is better cost/performance ratio.
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You save SOOOOO MUUUCH money building your own gaming PC that it just doesn't make sense to go the pre-built route, plus you can use higher quality parts than all but the most expensive machines from boutique manufacturers (Falcon, Origin, etc).
Assuming he's ok with at least a moderate sized Micro-ATX or ATX case, building a computer is incredibly easy, far more than it was a decade ago. Motherboard stand-offs will come already in place. The hardest part is attaching the CPU heatsink, and the mount systems from Noctua, Prolimatech, and Thermalright have gotten good enough where even that can be done in a few minutes tops. Everything else is basically just insert into slot on board or tray in case, screw-in, done.
The modern UEFI BIOS also makes controlling the motherboard much easier than it used to be. Some stuff is still pretty cryptic, but most of the options can be left at the default settings, and high-end boards have even gotten pretty good at overclocking themselves with little to no work involved.
(http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6850/ASUS%20MVF%20BIOS%2001%20-%20EZ.png)
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Watercooling is a generally a giant PITA and a waste of money. It's neat if you're a complete nerd and want to show off your case's awesome innards, but the actual facts are that as a practical cooling method it's almost entirely useless. Double the money spent over a high-end air cooler will buy you a TINY amount of additional clock speed out of an Ivy B CPU. In terms of frame rates in a game, the difference will be close to zero.
Stick to one of these:
(http://www.frostytech.com/articleimages/200912/megahalems_lpspc.jpg)
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Prolimitech Megahalems, I use one!
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you can check this site too for a general guideline on parts: http://www.logicalincrements.com/
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I agree with what others have already said.
I have been doing watercooling for 3 years now, the maintenance is something to keep in mind because blowing out the dust, replacing the tubing at least once every 18 months, don't recommend leaving your pc on w/o anyone present because the pump can fail and there goes your entire pc. Not to mention the leaks and etc.. Of course watercooling have their strengths also.
I second on the Prolimatech Megahalems air cooler definitely one of best mounting in the industrial if not the best.
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Not a bad list, but I can't say that I at all agree with the TJ07 as a top of the line case. First of all it's a million years old and incredibly dated from a design standpoint. Secondly, its a massive PITA, one of the worst cases I've ever used. I don't know WTF Silverstone was thinking with the airflow design. It's fairly well suited to watercooling, but even that will require some serious modding. Corsair cases are much better for that role, and much better in general. As a flagship case, the X2000FN is in a different league.
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you can check this site too for a general guideline on parts: http://www.logicalincrements.com/
This is super helpful, thanks!
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When are you thinking of building it? Haswell should arrive in about a month & bring with it a new socket (1150). That would allow for at least a couple of years of upgradability processor-wise.
Not that you really need it performance wise, Ivy Bridge won't be a bottleneck for gaming.
GPU-wise I agree with sticking under 300 & an SSD for the system drive is a must.
For maximum comfort also make sure to pick up some thumbscrews, cable ties & have a magnetic screwdriver and led light handy.
Also, look for low-rpm 120/140mm fans and cases with logical in/out cooling paths. Many enthusiast cases also include acoustic dampening pads. There's no reason for a gaming rig to be annoyingly buzzy.
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you can check this site too for a general guideline on parts: http://www.logicalincrements.com/
This is super helpful, thanks!
BTW, once you have some idea of a budget in mind PM me, I'd be happy to give specific part recommendations.
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You can build a perfectly capable PC that can play pretty much all games at high/ultra unless your son plays Crysis 3 for under 1500. Anything over and it's just unnecessary; PC components get outdated too fast to make such large investments.
I built mine years back around an i5 2500K and GTX650Ti and I swear it was perfect for the average gamer, and even pros (I was SC and CS pro). CSS is a CPU game and it gave me 1300FPS, which I had to cap to 999. SC was smooth as butter at full res w/ ultra settings. I played AC, D2, WoW, Dota, NFS, SC, CSS, CoD, Maplestory, and more, and I've never had any reason to complain.
Back then SSDs were super expensive, even 64Gb was over 120. Now they're damn cheap. Also, it doesn't hurt to get a fully modular gold rated PSU at 850W+ just to leave room for upgrades like SLI. Also, get a midtower that is known for excellent air flow; screw looks. Aesthetics stop mattering when your rig is overheating. It also doesn't hurt to get a water cooler like H80, it works wonders over air. Lastly don't overlook good wire organization to maximize airflow, and make sure you get extra GOOD fans that run quiet but has excellent airflow. You need to see how your tower will breathe and configure your fans appropriately; note you should always have more airflow out than in otherwise dust will gather fast.
I'm sure the other guys can help you out with the specific parts since I'm out of the scene now, but just reminding you that you don't need to spend so much on a gaming rig.
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You guys are making round about statements about GPU performance capping at $300. If you run 2560x1600 or multi screen it's not so easy to run anything at full effect.
Haswell is not necessary unless you want the IGP for help w/ photo/video editing. I went with Sandy over Ivy because I didn't like the early thermal performance of Ivy especially with it's bundled passive cooling.
If he's going to be doing pvp/mmorpg w/ load screens, consider setting up a RAMdisk for instant loading and killing. For memory I've been going w/ Mushkin lately for reliability. I've heard good things about Gskill. Corsair and Crucial have been hit or miss over the decades, not sure who's the better these days.
For SSDs stay away from Sandforce controllers unless the new ones can do incompressible data. I like my Samsung SSDs and their management software is brilliant. I don't like controllers that cheat by running compression to post BS performance figures.
I used to avoid watercooling like the plague but have come around to using Corsair water blocks and radiators for my CPU. They work great. I'd recommend running a filter over the radiator for dust though for ease of cleaning. I don't do mega monolitihic CPU heatsinks anymore as they invariably needed a fan anyway and just add stress to the motherboard. I run my fans so they pull from the back of the radiator and push across the mobo and my GPU w/ its passive heatsink. GPU fans are too loud and this works and looks bitchin'.
For Mobos I'd look to Gigabyte, ASrock and Asus. Be sure to check reviews on particular models within each make.
For platter spinners I like LG and Mdisc support. Maybe troll the forums and see what the best opticals are these days for quality ripping if that matters.
I'm a big Seasonic PSU guy. Look for their gold and platinum rated lineup for efficiency and performance. Mine is 760 watts and runs over 80% and uses a hybrid active/passive cooler.
I've gone back to Logitech peripherals, G9/G10 for mice and G13 for the left hand. I used to like Razers but they just break these days.
Mechanical keyboard. ;) I use a RACE.
I like PiP monitors for multi tasking. One, two or three of these LG EA93s ought to do.
(http://pinoytutorial.com/techtorial/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/lg_ea93.jpg)
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If he's going to be doing pvp/mmorpg w/ load screens, consider setting up a RAMdisk for instant loading and killing. For memory I've been going w/ Mushkin lately for reliability. I've heard good things about Gskill. Corsair and Crucial have been hit or miss over the decades, not sure who's the better these days.
For SSDs stay away from Sandforce controllers unless the new ones can do incompressible data. I like my Samsung SSDs and their management software is brilliant. I don't like controllers that cheat by running compression to post BS performance figures.
I used to avoid watercooling like the plague but have come around to using Corsair water blocks and radiators for my CPU. They work great. I'd recommend running a filter over the radiator for dust though for ease of cleaning. I don't do mega monolitihic CPU heatsinks anymore as they invariably needed a fan anyway and just add stress to the motherboard. I run my fans so they pull from the back of the radiator and push across the mobo and my GPU w/ its passive heatsink. GPU fans are too loud and this works and looks bitchin'.
For Mobos I'd look to Gigabyte, ASrock and Asus. Be sure to check reviews on particular models within each make.
I'm a big Seasonic PSU guy. Look for their gold and platinum rated lineup for efficiency and performance. Mine is 760 watts and runs over 80% and uses a hybrid active/passive cooler.
I've gone back to Logitech peripherals, G9/G10 for mice and G13 for the left hand. I used to like Razers but they just break these days.
I can definitely recommend G.skill RAM, I've had great results with them. Corsair used to be the Gold standard, not so much these days. As with everything, don't touch OCZ with a ten foot pole.
Sandforce should also be avoided at all costs. It was one thing when Sandforce was killing everybody else in sustained reads and writes, but those days are simply over. The Samsung 830 and 840 Pro drives just destroy Sandforce, PLUS you get some of the best reliability in the biz vs. Sandforce's extremely poor record of dodgy, bug ridden firmware. Once again OCZ completely sucks. Alternatively, the Plextor drives are said to be very good.
Disagree on tower heatsinks. You don't have to go insane with an Archon or Silver Arrow monster to get good cooling. A Megahalems or Genesis will do the job just fine, without damaging the board or requiring a massive case to actually fit. Use Noiseblocker fans and you'll get considerably less noise than most closed loop WC setups.
I can't recommend Gigabyte boards, I've had a 100% failure rate with mine. ASRock tend to mostly be cheapie designs, not really suited to a high-end gaming PC. Asus used to be super king bignuts, but their QC seems to have taken a dive in recent years (on the regular boards anyway) and dealing with Asus support can be a nightmare. Their ROG motherboards are usually very solid, but you pay for that privilege. Lately I've been very impressed with MSI. They used to be basket cases, but they've really gotten their act together in the last couple of years. I've worked with a few of their middle range GD65 boards and they've been great, at a considerably lower cost than the equivalent Asus.
Seasonic, yes, absolutely. Not always the very best voltage regulation or DC output, but they are usually at least in the ballpark vs. the best in the field, and more importantly, they are friggen reliable.
I need a very specific mouse shape to be comfortable, so I use a Roccat Kone which borrows the classic Logitech shape but doesn't have that shitty Logitech finish that always rubs off in about a month and makes the mouse look like it has eczema. The Roccat uses a kind of mouse fur type coating that's very comfortable and extremely grippy.
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I've never lost a Gigabyte board after going through 5 different builds. I did lose one board to a lightning strike but I also lost half the electronics in my house so that doesn't count. If I ever lost a gigabyte board I'd never use another. They do tend to fib a bit on new specs pulling the old Samsung half truths are not lies game. I also don't overclock as I don't have patience to deal w/ it anymore. ASRock has become very very good over the past year or more. They've moved upmarket. Asus is hit or miss for me and I personally stay away from them for various reasons but tons of people seems to do quite well w/ them. Never tried MSI before as they used to be sketchy as well. If I built another I'd give ASRock a go. I almost went with this but it didn't have coax, not that that matters w/ an OR5/6. http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/X79%20Extreme11/ (http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/X79%20Extreme11/)
Roccat looks cool but I like my hyperscrolling mouse wheel for text. The G9x is extremely comfortable with different shells to pick from. Honestly there isn't a mouse out that I'm truly happy with. My ideal would be a G9x shell w/ G700 buttons and the G10 extra ring finger button on a Darkfield sensor for glass tables capable of FPS precision. Hardwired of course.
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ASrock are just as suited for gaming as any Asus board. Hell, prior to a couple of years ago they shared a lot of the design and there is still a financial and manufacturing relationship between the two companies.
The current "upscale" mobo market is more about bling (oooh look at those bullet-shaped heatsinks and military-class caps) and piling on options (SupremeFX audio poo )
Go by the features you need and by cumulative user & pro reviews of individual products, not by company-wide anecdotes. For instance, I've had two sticks of g.skill RAM fail and a raid array of OCZ sandforce SSDs work flawlessly for two years now.
As for how extreme you can go, that depends on the gaming style. For FPS games you'll want a monitor with low input lag, a mechanical keyboard and a mouse with a quick polling rate; for racing games you might want a three-display setup for a wraparound feel; for minesweeper you're going to need liquid nitrogen cooling, etc. First consider your budget.
Bonus protip: don't choose a power supply until you have an idea of the total power consumption at load, there's an efficiency curve to consider http://www.anandtech.com/show/2624/3
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Oh you got the OCZ SSDs that work! Does that mean they are actually defective? :)p13
You can actually get a very good ASrock borad for $120 even w/ the blingy caps and billet heatsink. Sorry, but I've had electrolytic caps kill a mobo and seen a few bulges here and there so I don't take quality caps lightly. I went with solid caps as soon as they came out and Gigabyte was the first to use them waay back to my recollection.
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ASrock are just as suited for gaming as any Asus board. Hell, prior to a couple of years ago they shared a lot of the design and there is still a financial and manufacturing relationship between the two companies.
The current "upscale" mobo market is more about bling (oooh look at those bullet-shaped heatsinks and military-class caps) and piling on options (SupremeFX audio poo )
Go by the features you need and by cumulative user & pro reviews of individual products, not by company-wide anecdotes. For instance, I've had two sticks of g.skill RAM fail and a raid array of OCZ sandforce SSDs work flawlessly for two years now.
Upscale mobos are also about high quality PCBs that are thicker than a sheet of paper, and phase power designs. I haven't looked too closely at ASRock recently, but what I remember in the past were cheap ass floppy boards with shitty power regulation.
You should open a museum, you may have the only working OCZ raid array in the world.
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I also don't understand the relevance of that efficiency curve on anandtech. Essentially, if you use that 900W PS, anything above 125W and beyond gets you over 80% efficiency. So what's the problem? So basically any mainstream to gamer PC can benefit from an efficient 900W PS. It seems to me the only argument that article is making is that you can save money by skimping on a PS as long as you only make an internet appliance for web browsing. It seems to me low power users that buy $200 PCs from Dell for web browsing or typing office docs won't even be aware that you can even buy a 900W power supply to begin with, or even what a 'Watt' is... :-Z
It's also dangerous because it's misleading recommending that users buy a PS based on idle usage. With the advanced thermal and power management inherent in modern CPUs and GPUs, you could conceivably operate above 90% efficiency to save a few pence if you spend most of your time at idle. Then load Crisis and then your PS bitchslaps your PC due to lack of headroom. Do most people keep the minimum amount of gas in their tank required for their average commute to save weight and improve mileage? Fill her up man!!
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I also don't understand the relevance of that efficiency curve on anandtech. Essentially, if you use that 900W PS, anything above 125W and beyond gets you over 80% efficiency. So what's the problem? So basically any mainstream to gamer PC can benefit from an efficient 900W PS. It seems to me the only argument that article is making is that you can save money by skimping on a PS as long as you only make an internet appliance for web browsing. It seems to me low power users that buy $200 PCs from Dell for web browsing or typing office docs won't even be aware that you can even buy a 900W power supply to begin with, or even what a 'Watt' is... :-Z
It's also dangerous because it's misleading recommending that users buy a PS based on idle usage. With the advanced thermal and power management inherent in modern CPUs and GPUs, you could conceivably operate above 90% efficiency to save a few pence if you spend most of your time at idle. Then load Crisis and then your PS bitchslaps your PC due to lack of headroom. Do most people keep the minimum amount of gas in their tank required for their average commute to save weight and improve mileage? Fill her up man!!
Agreed 100%. PSUs typically hit their absolute peak efficiency in the middle to upper range of their maximum output, but we're talking a few percentage points at most. Should you power a <20W Atom machine with a 900W PSU? Of course not. Any type of serious gaming machine should have several hundred watts of headroom over even what the system would use running wPrime and 3dmark at the same time. Otherwise any time you upgrade to a more powerful (and more power hungry) piece of hardware, you'll have to throw out your PSU and buy a new one. That's just stupid.
Also, unlike the Kingwin hybrid PSU fans which switch on based on temperature, the Seasonic fans switch on and ramp up based on electrical load, so from a noise standpoint it makes more sense to run them at <50% capacity rather than >50%.
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Oh you got the OCZ SSDs that work! Does that mean they are actually defective? :)p13
You can actually get a very good ASrock borad for $120 even w/ the blingy caps and billet heatsink. Sorry, but I've had electrolytic caps kill a mobo and seen a few bulges here and there so I don't take quality caps lightly. I went with solid caps as soon as they came out and Gigabyte was the first to use them waay back to my recollection.
Upscale mobos are also about high quality PCBs that are thicker than a sheet of paper, and phase power designs. I haven't looked too closely at ASRock recently, but what I remember in the past were cheap ass floppy boards with shitty power regulation.
You should open a museum, you may have the only working OCZ raid array in the world.
I'm under no delusion that OCZ isn't a slightly shady outfit with poor quality control and often cutrate design. The drives were quick, well-priced, warrantied and backed up. If you feel the need to give me shit over my decision that's cool, I only brought up the drive anecdote to illustrate a different point of view.
How thick to PCBs need to be? How many phases do you need? If you're an overclocker or tournament gamer or otherwise nutty then these are valid concerns. A decade ago, when I could finally afford it, I built a dream gaming system and obsessed over part choice, component layout, etc. Sometimes even the most well-built and expensive parts failed or overclocking compromised stability to the point where it wasn't even worth bothering with, other times I invested money into features that I never wound up using. A few systems down the line and I've narrowed down what mattered to me: responsiveness, quietness, tactile/agile performance of peripherals and sufficient gaming performance. Having a couple of huge-ass 300w cards SLId no longer sounded like a good idea to me, nor did the expense & maintenance of water-cooling, nor the limited part availability of water blocks (though that's definitely gotten better). That said, your priorities may differ if you're building for a kid who would be enthused to geek out over such things. Or maxed-out Crysis on a 120hz 1600p LCD.
As for the power supply graph link: chill, it was only a suggestion to optimize (not lobotomize headroom), plus some people actually like the option of saving a few pence through minor gains in efficiency.
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I just wanted to thank everyone for the advice given here. Every post held some valuable information that was useful when making decisions on what to buy. It gave me a lot of confidence in placing the order for the parts. I expect we'll have everything within a week or so to build a pretty nice gaming PC for my son. I compared it to the built computer he wanted to get and simply it blows it away on specs and is way cheaper!
I'm looking forward to plugging everything together and seeing to come to life!
I'll try to remember to take a few photos during the assembly and post 'em here.
THANKS!
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What did you end up going with?
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Here is what we ended up with. I probably could have shopped around more, but more or less I grabbed everything from Amazon out of convenience.
Cooler Master HAF XM case
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 2GB OC; GeForce GTX 660; NVIDIA; 1033 MHz; 2048 MB; GDDR5-SDRAM; 192 bit (GV-N660OC-2GD)
Gigabyte SKT-1155 Z77X-UD5H Motherboard
Seasonic 750W M12II Bronze Series power supply
Thermaltake Frio CPU cooler
Intel 3rd Generation Core i5-3570K CPU (4 x 3.40GHz, Ivy Bridge, Socket 1155, 6Mb L3 Cache, Intel Turbo Boost Technology 2.0)
8 GB of RAM (Crucial Ballistix)
Crucial CT256M4SSD2 256GB M4 SATA III 6Gb/s MLC 2.5 Inch Internal SSD
Seagate Barracuda 1TB SATA HDD
Dell Ultrasharp U2412M 24 inch IPS Widescreen LED Monitor (I REALLY wanted to get him the monitor that Anax recommended, but I needed to make some budget decisions in certain areas)
4 Cooler Master MegaFlow 200mm fans for the case
Hopefully there aren't too many big mistakes in there! This is his first serious gaming machine, he's been on a laptop and using consoles before this, so I figure this thing will be a huge step up. Lucky bugger, I never had cool toys like this when I was growing up!
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- you dont need a 750w psu for your rig, a 500-600w psu will do fine and will have enough for "peace of mind" in case you dont want 450w psus. a friend of mine is using a 450w psu that came with the SG05 case and 3570k @ 4.5ghz (forgot the voltage) and gtx 670 and he is not having any problems on stress tests.
the only time you will need a 750w psu is if you are going to SLI in the future!
- for the cpu cooler, if youre just going to do a mild overclock, the Coolermaster Hyper 212 evo dual fan can save you a few bucks but im not sure what is the pricing on the store you are going to buy! the frio is abit cooler though!
- the dell monitor is good enough for the GTX660. the LG monitor Anax posted is indeed better though! no need for dual/triple monitor that costs alot!
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Here is what we ended up with. I probably could have shopped around more, but more or less I grabbed everything from Amazon out of convenience.
Cooler Master HAF X case
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 2GB OC; GeForce GTX 660; NVIDIA; 1033 MHz; 2048 MB; GDDR5-SDRAM; 192 bit (GV-N660OC-2GD)
Gigabyte SKT-1155 Z77X-UD5H Motherboard
Seasonic 750W M12II Bronze Series power supply
Thermaltake Frio CPU cooler
Intel 3rd Generation Core i5-3570K CPU (4 x 3.40GHz, Ivy Bridge, Socket 1155, 6Mb L3 Cache, Intel Turbo Boost Technology 2.0)
8 GB of RAM (Crucial Ballistix)
Crucial CT256M4SSD2 256GB M4 SATA III 6Gb/s MLC 2.5 Inch Internal SSD
Seagate Barracuda 1TB SATA HDD
Dell Ultrasharp U2412M 24 inch IPS Widescreen LED Monitor (I REALLY wanted to get him the monitor that Anax recommended, but I needed to make some budget decisions in certain areas)
4 Cooler Master MegaFlow 200mm fans for the case
Hopefully there aren't too many big mistakes in there! This is his first serious gaming machine, he's been on a laptop and using consoles before this, so I figure this thing will be a huge step up. Lucky bugger, I never had cool toys like this when I was growing up!
Not too bad. I'm very particular that my cases be inaudible so a HAF certainly isn't what I'd get for myself, but there's certainly plenty of airflow there for good overclocking. The only other nitpick I have is the Thermaltake HSF, I prefer Thermalright and Prolimatech.
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Interesting possibilities maybe: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ASRock-A-Style-HDMI-In,22533.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ASRock-A-Style-HDMI-In,22533.html)
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asrock will release "waterproof" boards too!
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Yeah, I don't know about that. Waterproofing was all the rage at CES this year. It's also not considered a permanent solution, it does wear out over time.
If that matters, just build your fanless PC in an acrylic fish tank and fill it w/ vegetable oil. No waterproofing needed.
Now for ruggedized laptops...I'd add that to my Thinkpad wish list.
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Some updates from Seasonic about Haswell compatibility: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Seasonic-Haswell-Power-Supply,22544.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Seasonic-Haswell-Power-Supply,22544.html)
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Speaking of Haswell, whatever happened with that USB sleep bug? Is that still going to be in all of the first gen chipsets?
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I was a little worried that the HAF XM would be too small since it's a mid-tower. It arrived and I am convinced that I could move a small family inside it. HUGE! The HAF X must be simply massive.
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i personally think mid-tower cases have enough size for cable management + 1 big graphics card, even using two cards in a mid-tower case is already good enough for me, assuming there is a space for cables to dump in at the other side of the case. full tower is way too big for me! maybe if i put 3 or 4 graphics cards and but that will never happen.
i love itx/mini-tower cases though! waiting for silverstone sugo sg10!
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Anyone want to make any recommendations on Windows 7 vs. 8 for the new machine? I guess 8 will go "blue" soon?
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(http://www.matternow.com/prwhiteboard/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/aaaaaaaaaaaaa7.jpg)
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if you know someone who works for Intel, you can get processors and INtel motherboards with heavy discounts. I only know this cause I have a ton of buddies who work there and have made that offer to me a few times.
MIght be time to build a new PC for myself. Been over almost 5 years with the old one.
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Anyone want to make any recommendations on Windows 7 vs. 8 for the new machine? I guess 8 will go "blue" soon?
7. The only way I would be able to use W8 would be with Start8 installed and all of the Modern UI bullshit turned off.
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If you are happy w/ the UI and level of performance, Win 7. If you want a little better performance and protection or any other 'features' then 8. 8 also handles SSDs better in case your particular SSDs don't handle GC or RAID as well.
Sachu, better jump on that deal ASAP. Rumor mill is Intel will come w/ chips presoldered on aftermarket mobos. Hence no Intel reference boards or CPUs for sale to the end user.
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Anyone want to make any recommendations on Windows 7 vs. 8 for the new machine? I guess 8 will go "blue" soon?
I love Windows 8, including the new interface (Exact same OS and UI on my desktop, laptop, and tablet, including automatically synced settings? Yes please!). It has a bit of a learning curve, and Microsoft did a piss poor job including documentation and tutorials on how to use it, but it's just as easy and fast as W7 once you get the hang of it. Unless you're like most of the whiners out there. Then you'll hate it unconditionally. :P
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I'm not a whiner. It's perfectly fine for touch control, I don't like the aesthetics of it at all but it's serviceable. With a mouse though it's a total disaster. There's a vast amount of wasted space, it's just a complete mess by all tenants of effective UI design.
Usually the excuse by W8 apologists is "ok, maybe it takes 5 clicks to do something that used to take 1 or 2, but you can always use keyboard shortcuts!" Because yes, that's a totally reasonable thing to ask of the average user. All you do is press Win+I, or Win+W, or Win+S, to do a function that has absolutely no relation to the letter W, or I, or S. Intuitive!
This is what W8 on the desktop should've looked like.
(http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/windows-8-start8-start-menu.jpg)
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Did you read about the new 'Microsoft Mouse' made to make W8 more user friendly on ArsTechnica? I like Microsoft in general for its products but sometimes...
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I'm not a whiner. It's perfectly fine for touch control, I don't like the aesthetics of it at all but it's serviceable. With a mouse though it's a total disaster. There's a vast amount of wasted space, it's just a complete mess by all tenants of effective UI design.
Usually the excuse by W8 apologists is "ok, maybe it takes 5 clicks to do something that used to take 1 or 2, but you can always use keyboard shortcuts!"
I use it primarily with a KB/M...works just fine! It also works well with a laptop touchpad if it supports the gestures. Once I was able to use it as a tablet OS, that actually made using the KB/M in W8 more intuitive than before. Having a Surface for a while really helped me understand how W8 works overall on multiple machines with different input types. Some things take 1 extra click, some take 1 less. For the most part, everything is just as fast to get through as W7, and I don't really use keyboard shortcuts. Quite easy and intuitive to use once you get the hang of it, but people don't give it a good enough chance. :)
Now, as for aesthetics, I can't argue against personal opinion there. I like the looks but can understand if others don't.
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i read somewhere about a few weeks ago that windows 8.1 (windows blue?) is going to have a free upgrade for those current windows 8 users. didnt tried searching what would be the "improvements" though.
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http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Windows-Blue-leak-changes-new-features-review,review-1787.html (http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Windows-Blue-leak-changes-new-features-review,review-1787.html)
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Yep. Can't take away my start button.
http://startisback.com/
I'm using the same software mod with W8, Dave. It's very well integrated into the OS compared to the other two free ones I tried. Haven't seen Metro in months.
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Yep. Can't take away my start button.
http://startisback.com/
I'm using the same software mod with W8, Dave. It's very well integrated into the OS compared to the other two free ones I tried. Haven't seen Metro in months.
I haven't seen that one, but Stardock's Start8 is very well executed. It's so well done in fact that some OEMs are actually including it with their new machines. Most of them aren't happy with W8, and man do they hate WinRT.
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RT is a disaster. I have a friend works at Redmond and let's just say I'm not as optimistic about the overall platform direction as I was after having a chat.
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Very helpful video comparing Start8 and Start is back. Apparently there are at least half a dozen start button replacement apps now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqUAg3cQxQo
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Yessir. I follow those fools regularly.
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looks like microsoft is putting back the old start button as an option/toggle when 8.1 is released.
http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/30/windows-8-1-to-get-start-button-boot-to-desktop-option/
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Basically they are just replacing the bottom left corner "hidden" start button with a button. Not a big change. The fact that you couldn't do 50/50 (or whatever size you wanted) in Metro or with a desktop/Metro app before was insane, as was the fact that shortcuts like Win + L/R would work on the desktop but not in Metro. That's at least fixed now, at least the former is.
Ultimately none of the changes are anything I really care about, as I have no interest in using or seeing Metro ever. I'll be building a few Haswell machines and I may think about using it just for the better SSD handling and few other niceties, but only with SIB.
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Ugh...
Of late my PC has been louder than usual. Not even closed headphones are enough to seal the fan noise out. It's not the chassis fans as I've made an effort to turn those down. Going to have to dust it out this weekend. I'm thinking about replacing the shit stock cooler (don't ask why I'm still using a stock cooler) with a nice aftermarket one.
This is an old CPU (Quad-Core Q9450 http://ark.intel.com/products/33923) and I don't plan on keeping it or the mobo much longer either. So I'd need one that supports older sockets (LGA775, specifically). Does it even make sense to use a new cooler on this machine and then swing it over for when I upgrade? The noise is really irksome right now.
I'm thinking about getting this one:
(http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Hyper-212-RR-212E-20PK-R2/dp/B005O65JXI/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=1S740PV0R62FF&coliid=I17D8U4GHVBXWK)
I might also want to look for some extra chassis fans that I can also roll over into my next machine.
Any alternate recommendations or advice are welcome.
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(http://memecreator.eu/media/created/pqs5ap.jpg)
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was just about to recommend the 212 EVO when I saw DaveBSC's picture... scrolled up and there it was! can't beat it for the price. just make sure it fits your case. :P
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Any specific chassis fans you guys would recommend?
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Check out http://www.silentpcreview.com/section12.html (http://www.silentpcreview.com/section12.html)
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@ OJneg
arctic cooling F12 is a decent all-rounder fan. silent, decent cooling (unless youre into those 1800rpm above fans), decent airflow, and its less than 10usd a piece. not sure if white/black color scheme would fit your case.
i use those overpriced scythe kama flow 2 or s-flex (both 1800rpm) because i got it in an ancient computer store for very cheap. they are noisy at 1800 rpm though, im guessing its the motor/bearing is causing the noise. if i lower the RPM to 1200/1400 they are quiet enough for me.
the hyper212 evo dual fan is great, but note that the stock fans from it are noisy as well. it is even noisier than the scythe fans that i have if i use it at 1800rpm. the fans are not as noisy as the stock cpu cooler though!
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I've been using the Cougar Vortex w/ pretty good results on my radiator.
http://www.cougar-world.com/us/products/fans/vortex_pwm.html (http://www.cougar-world.com/us/products/fans/vortex_pwm.html)
There's always Noctua as well.
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+1 For Noctua. Excellent noise to performance ratio from them! They'll look totally out of place inside your case though, with their color scheme. Make sure you have enough space if you get their CPU heatsink/fan, they're huge!
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Noctua yes, Gentle Typhoon if you can find them, Noiseblocker Black Silent and Multi-frame, Nexus.
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Just a final thanks to the pirates who helped me out.
The build was super easy and it was a great way for me and my son to do a project together. We had absolutely no issues and last night he was gaming up a storm on the new machine. He showed me how he'd have to set up his old machine and how much lag there was, and then he showed me the new machine running at max settings and looking great.
We stuffed the case case with cool LED lit fans so it looks cool too... at least I think so! I can't believe how dead quiet it is considering how many fans we're running. Impressive.
Now I'm going to build a media server... using a Mac of course!! )(