CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Non-Audio Stuff => The Geek Cave: Home Theatre, Computers, and More! => Topic started by: iRo on July 20, 2014, 03:10:01 PM
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So i would like to have some advise and appreciate your help guys.
It was long time coming and i think i'm finally ready to go for a new full rig upgrade. Pretty much sat on the same gear from 2008 with a little changes here and there. I'm not really up to date with the market and all those upgrade cycles in CPU and GPU, so i'm not entirely sure what should i look into.
The primal usage of the PC will be for competitive gaming (Dota 2) and video streaming. I don't have any particular budget in mind as i'd like to know where i can get to. I also consider upgrading my monitor and getting some 144hz 1080p/1440p goodness (yes, i'm looking at you Asus), but i'm not sure what kind of monster GPU am i looking for to get such fps on max settings. I've read that you'd need something like 1.6k in GPUs to get max of ROG SWIFT PG278Q? If that's the case i don't think i'd want to pay that much for cutting edge tech.
I'd also like to build it as a open case rig. Some points made by ohhgourami in the various discussions on this board really convinced me to check it out. So i guess i'm looking for Lian Li T60 case, unless there are some other alternatives.
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Dang, I'm flattered you saw my post on open case!
You are caught in a weird cycle where there's good hardware to be bought this fall. You have cheap ($400) 6 core Haswell-E in August and Nvidia Maxwell in November. If there's a microcenter near you, that six core could be ~$280. Rumor has it that GTX 880 will be faster than GTX 780Ti for ~500. I'm guessing you need to SLI to get 144fps.
Cutting this short. Will continue when I get home.
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If you do change your mind on cases, maybe take a look at the NZXT H440 or Phanteks Enthoo Luxe.
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lord_tris on shill-fi has a Cooler Master HAF XB if that's what you mean by open. It's a really nice case for benchtesting and a good (but rather large) LAN box
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Continuing from where I left off:
If you need to build immediately, my recommendation would be a Devil's Canyon i7 4790k. High stock turbo, and seems to be pretty easy to get it to 4.5-4.6ghz on air. Delidding is still highly recommended to get another 10C drop in temps. You would have to make a decision on GPU on either 780s or 780Ti's which I think both are a bit overpriced as Maxwell is right around the corner. Maxwell will run cooler which helps a lot in an open case rig as there will be much lower temps.
Now is to decide whether you're going to go air or liquid cooling. Air cooling would utilize open case the most and be quieter. CPU cooler would have to be Noctua NH-15 or Phanteks, but be aware when picking mobo with first slot x16 PCI-e lanes as D15 is not compatible. For the GPUs, I would go for a pair of Prolimatech MK-26s or the new Rajitech or whatever its spelled GPU cooler. You would have to mount the fans blowing down the thin side but it still provide very good cooling and of course low noise.
The LianLi T60 case is not bad but I wish the quality could be better. To me it's really low priced and functions well. Only problem is it doesn't support water if you go that route. Another option is a Dimastech test bench which supports water but cost a lot more, looks better, with similar build quality so it's a toss up. I saw someone have a "tray" style test bench where all the parts are on one plane, but I haven't seen something like it for sale.
BTW, cooler master cases look like shit.
To be continued with PSUs...
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For gaming, and if you can afford it, go Intel. Even the Sandy Bridge line is still great these days, if you had to go cheap and used (i.e. 2500K). Get a K-line CPU, an aftermarket heatsink and fan, and overclock it, if you can.
At 1440p, something like a GTX 780 will still run most graphically advanced games at 60FPS (i.e. BF4), though it can be a stretch on less optimized games (i.e. Watch Dogs). Hitting that 120/144Hz target can be much more difficult, but it is glorious when you do.
The suggestion to wait for the next generation of Nvidia cards is a good one. I'd go with the GTX 880, or whatever it ends up being. Maybe two...
If you wanted to more easily attain high frame rates at that resolution, I would start considering dual GPUs. OTOH, you then have to worry about general stability issues, game incompatibilities (leaving you with just one GPU, effectively, or bugs), and micro-stuttering. These issues continue to become less and less of a problem as time goes on, but they're still a factor to consider. I purposely stick with single-GPU solutions because of these reasons, going for the highest end single offerings when I can (well, ignoring overpriced crap like the Titan).
I recommend Nvidia, as I overall think they have the best drivers, best stability, and least issues with games. That said, AMD has competitive solutions as well from a pure performance standpoint.
Go SSD. No questions asked. Use it for the OS, games, applications, etc. Use a mechanical HDD for storing media files and such.
If you decide to go closed case, consider the Fractal Design Define R4. You can often find them around $80. They are quiet, surprisingly cool, built like tanks, and are very easy to work with.
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So i would like to have some advise and appreciate your help guys.
It was long time coming and i think i'm finally ready to go for a new full rig upgrade. Pretty much sat on the same gear from 2008 with a little changes here and there. I'm not really up to date with the market and all those upgrade cycles in CPU and GPU, so i'm not entirely sure what should i look into.
The primal usage of the PC will be for competitive gaming (Dota 2) and video streaming. I don't have any particular budget in mind as i'd like to know where i can get to. I also consider upgrading my monitor and getting some 144hz 1080p/1440p goodness (yes, i'm looking at you Asus), but i'm not sure what kind of monster GPU am i looking for to get such fps on max settings. I've read that you'd need something like 1.6k in GPUs to get max of ROG SWIFT PG278Q? If that's the case i don't think i'd want to pay that much for cutting edge tech.
I'd also like to build it as a open case rig. Some points made by ohhgourami in the various discussions on this board really convinced me to check it out. So i guess i'm looking for Lian Li T60 case, unless there are some other alternatives.
If you want high settings at 144Hz at QHD you will need SLI and megabucks in graphics cards. I agree with everything said by ohhgourami and hans030390.
Waiting for GTX880 might be a good idea, ditto waiting for monitors with upcoming DisplayPort standard but that could be a way off.
If you are willing to sacrifice either graphics quality or resolution and go back to 1080p you could save a lot of money and still be competitive, but maybe not so much fun so meh!
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Sounds like you're not a beginner like I was, so this may not be useful, but this thread helped me out here: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,962.0.html (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,962.0.html)
I built two gaming PCs now using guidance from the suggested link in that thread: http://www.logicalincrements.com (http://www.logicalincrements.com)
I'm sure it's not definitive, but it gave a good idea of the range of stuff out there and it seems to be up to date.
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Is Dota 2 the primary game you play?
If so, then some good news.
First of all, Dota 2 is not a demanding game at all, not to mention is has a 120fps cap. At 1200p, you can max out the game and hit the 120fps cap with a GTX 760 (~
$250) or a R9 280X (~$300).
(http://static.techspot.com/articles-info/785/bench/DOTA_02.png)
At 1600p, you can still max out the game and hit the 120fps cap with a R9 290 (~$400), the GTX 780 (~$500) falters a skosh at higher resolution, but it's close.
(http://static.techspot.com/articles-info/785/bench/DOTA_03.png)
Source: http://www.techspot.com/review/785-free-to-play-games-benchmarks/page3.html
You'll definitely want a good CPU with Dota 2 though, min fps will suffer with a less powerfull GPU. Stay with 4690K and above.
Of course, If you want to max out new and upcoming games at 1440p and 144hz, be ready to drop some serious dough with multi-gpu set up.
Hope this helps.
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Good point.
I play Dark Souls 2, BF3 and Witcher 2 around 80 fps with R9 270.(FHD maxed out, but i leave MSAA off, i dont like what it does to the picture anyway..)
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dota2 isnt a very hard game to stream. you can go with a i7-4770/90 and gtx 770 and you'll be fine on a multi monitor 1080p setup. 770 should be enough for 1440p aswell
for streaming you want a very powerful cpu (not amd) and at least 8 threads. id much rather spend more money on a 6 core setup (4930k) than a big gpu (gtx 780)
also be sure to check out some better cooling options, low rpm fans with big heatsinks or watercooling help a lot with headphones.
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also be sure to check out some better cooling options, low rpm fans with big heatsinks or watercooling help a lot with headphones.
I can't stress this enough. I seriously have no idea how people can listen to music with computers that have audible fans or moving parts! We throw a ton of money down to reach high level of fidelity then we ruin all of that with a stupid humming fan and/or drive spinning in the background. In the case with a lot of PC, it would be a roaring fan to my standards.
Back to the point about power supplies. PSUs matter a lot. A good PSU is not something we should notice for the lifetime our our PCs. The problem is that most PSUs have a flaw such as audible fan, coil whine, or buzzing. I would strive for a 80+ Platinum or Gold and since you will most likely SLI then a 750W+ PSU is recommended and you sadly can't use a fanless. Reviews on SPCR suggest the Kingwin Lazer Platinum 850W since they don't seem to buzz, Seasonic 860xp2 (hopefully no whine), Antec HCP-850W (hopefully can't hear the fan), Superflower Leadex 850W Plat.
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Yes, make it quiet. This site will help (http://www.silentpcreview.com). There are fanless PSUs out there, though for a powergamer rig you could get one of the new efficient ones which doesn't spin up the fan until x amount of load.
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You either aren't listening loud enough or need more closed headphones. :P
But, really, hard to go back once you build a quiet computer. Every other computer will become annoying after.
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Sorry guys, got some problems with the internet line and PSU due to the storm. Got it all fixed now.
Yes, i pretty much only play Dota 2 exclusively. I do have some other games in my Steam library, but those are all old RPGs. And while i might get Skyrim later down the road for the Skywind mod, if i get the GTX 770/780 or 880 it should be enough, right? Nothing really stands out for me from the new game releases anyway.
From the all case advises in the thread, the only ones i can buy locally are Lian Li T60 (~$105), Cooler Master HAF XB EVO (~$126) and Fractal Design Define R4 (~$136). As my plan was to go with the open case air cooling, that's pretty much strengthens it. I don't really wanted to bother with water cooling, as that's just another chance to screw things up.
So according to TechSpot benchmarks i should be still fine (with Dota 2 at least) if i want to go 1440p/144hz (120hz) route with ROG SWIFT PG278Q and GTX 880/780? That Asus monitor indeed overpriced for what it is (just my opinion), but it's still the first 1440p 144hz 8bit TN panel monitor on the market. Plus it has G-SYNC. There is also another upcoming monitor with 8bit panel (Acer XB270HA (http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1086&p=8016)), but i don't know if i want another 27" 1080p since i already have one (Samsung S27A950D).
So from what i've got from the thread i makes sense to wait at least 2 months to see what's gonna be on the market by the fall (in terms of new GPUs and monitors).
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Any thoughts guys?
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Assuming you want Dota 2 to run at a constant 120fps then you need at least a GTX 780.
Not sure what else to follow up with since you seem to be waiting for releases. If you are planning to buy now, then I'll go into detail with parts.
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Yep, just needed reconfirmation if i got that correct. I think i'll wait it out, at least to see what the prices on next gen/price drop on last gen cards are gonna be locally.
Back to this subject in the couple of months then. If i'll have any questions in the mean time, can i bother you a bit ohhgourami?
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PM me anytime!
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My Corsair XT 750 V2 made some Serious noise in idle. I went to the dealership and told em that i want a new one because this PSU is not making 25dB noise on my idle load like it shows on the graph( dB/wattage graph) . It came down to this, basically they told me, in a more polite way to go and f*ck.... .
If your PSU fan makes noise, just change it yourself. You can run your PSU fan from your MOBO fan controller. Thats what i did anyway. Now it's not audible, maybe 24-25dB.
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I have hoped Corsair have pulled there heads out of there arses by now with the V2 lineup of PSU's. In case anybody buys them and craps themselves upon power up and realise the fan doesn't spin, not to worry the fan only kicks in when thermal load reaches more then halfway for the fan to be triggered. The fan also have issues such as loud noise as mentioned and/or doesn't spin up at all. You end up with a passive heat load that way, not good.
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I purposely stayed away from certain Corsair/Seasonic models due to reports of coil whine (the ones that often get discounted, unsurprisingly). My previous build had it, my current one uses a lower model Seasonic that's whine-free.
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Seasonic mid and upper tier PSU's are among the best you can buy. Coil whine usually relates to a faulty unit and only audible when load is present. Haven't heard of coil whining from them even JohnnyGuru hasn't confirmed any such bad batches.
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The new cards are out, any thoughts?
I'm kinda debating with myself what to do now and what would be best future-proof upgrade path (yeh, sounds funny):
1) to go PG278Q and 980 SLI;
2) to go PG278Q and 970 SLI;
3) PG278Q and single 970 (is it even worth it);
4) wait for Broadwell/Skylake and Pascal (oh boya).
Do i go all-in and go for the 1st variant, wait for non-reference 980 cards and then overclock it on water. Or do i do the same but with references and on air in open case.
Do i go for the 2nd variant with either water or air and wait on that setup till the big Maxwell arrives to upgrade.
Kinda the same with the 3rd, just a pit stop rig while waiting for GM200 based cards. The wait could be either short (late '14/H1 '15) or as late as spring season '15.
4th is more of a joke. Or not. Guess the main question do i spent money now or wait again (at least till GM200 release, whenever it'll be). And do i spent big time or not.
Kinda regret i kept reading OCN for last 2 weeks while waiting for new 900 series. So much interesting stuff yet so limited time and finances. Itching for upgrade doesn't help. :(
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I wouldn't recommend any graphics card with a reference cooler, nV or AMD. They are designed to work in crappy cases with no space and with poor airflow, and so both the noise and thermal performance are god awful compared to say MSI's Twin Frozr or Asus' Direct CU coolers.
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IIRC, the reference cooler on recent high-end Nvidia's have been serviceable according to reviews. I'd personally shoot for non-reference as well, my Gigabyte Windforce GTX 670 has being pretty reliable these past 2+ years in a hot room. My PS3 and 360 are both significantly louder than my tower.
I won't upgrade until my card dies or I can't play console ports at 720p/30fps/medium settings. I only just bought a 1080p monitor this year. :D
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If I had the money, I'd get that ASUS monitor and a single 980 (I'm too worried about micro-stuttering from SLI, as I am very, very sensitive to it).
Those new 6/8 core Intels look great, though perhaps still not worth it if for gaming if you're running an OCed Sandy Bridge or later CPU.
Edit: And, yeah, don't get reference coolers if you can avoid it. Not that they're bad, but the aftermarket coolers often do much better.
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If I remember correctly, you wanted to follow my path with open case so you would probably do aftermarket aircooling for the GPU anyway. Typically reference coolers blow (pun intended), but with aftermarket cooling it wouldn't matter. Watch the OCN threads and see which cards tend to OC highest (usually the one with the most robust VRMs) and go for that one. Then once you get it, ditch the crap stock cooler (stock or custom still suck compared to aftermarket).
Prolimatech MK-26 or Raijintek Morpheus with Noctua NF-S12A PWM or Be Quiet! Silent Wings 2 PWM.
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Yeh, i think i'm still gonna go that road and also get one single 980. Will need to wait for non-reference cards though, 3 weeks+ or so from now from what information i could find.
Should i start looking for other components now or is it better to wait till then, ohhgourami?
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Nothing new is coming out within the next month so start looking at the other parts. I guess you have to decide between 4790K or 5820K.
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If budget is a thing, you may be better served with a non-reference 970. Just overclock it, and live with ~10% less performance and $200 more in your pocket versus a non-reference 980.
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Updating a desktop setup starts from making things silent!
So I have the Haf X, which is very nice in that it's easy to configure and swap stuff. But it's loud as fuck and sitting 2-3ft from me. Also it's ugly and big, but I don't care about that...
I take it the Fractal Defines or Nanoxia Deep Sleep are the budget choice for silent towers with reasonable air flow? After this I think the point of diminishing returns hit in.
I have a GTX780 with the Asus Direct... ummm double fan stuff and a Noctua 12 or 14 model (can't remember) as the loudest components. Three HDD's and an SSD for disk requirements, so a full tower isn't necessary. Also I don't really overclock. I very seldomly update stuff, so easy setup isn't a prerequisite, but a nice addition.
Is there something that I've missed, or if I put in say up to 400eur/usd, can I get something significantly quieter?
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You can keep that butt ugly HAF X and still keep it "silent".
I tend to keep away from "noise muffling" cases as you should be stopping noise from the source, not bandaiding it.
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So water coolants for the gpu and cpu?
I've turned the top and side fans of the haf x to a minimum. Decent airflow still, but there's hardly anything in between the gpu and me so I can still hear it quite loudly.
What's wrong with noise muffling? I get that you'd want to optimize other things first, for a relatively hot running setup, but I keep my apartment pretty cool and don't do overclocking, so I think I'd be just fine with a bit of dampening material here and there instead of annoying static fan noise.
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So water coolants for the gpu and cpu?
I've turned the top and side fans of the haf x to a minimum. Decent airflow still, but there's hardly anything in between the gpu and me so I can still hear it quite loudly.
What's wrong with noise muffling? I get that you'd want to optimize other things first, for a relatively hot running setup, but I keep my apartment pretty cool and don't do overclocking, so I think I'd be just fine with a bit of dampening material here and there instead of annoying static fan noise.
The Fractal and Nanoxia cases are reasonably quiet, but the airflow is pretty pitiful. If the GPU has to crank its fans up to compensate for the lack of incoming air, then it's just self defeating. What you want is a case that's got good airflow AND is quiet, like say the new Silverstone RV/FT05. I don't particularly like the design or the uber cheap construction, but it does work.
I also suspect the fans used in the HAF (assuming they are stock) are a major part of the problem. You can't just turn any old fan down to the minimum speed and expect it to be quiet. Delta fans at 5V are not quiet. What you need are some Noiseblockers or Scythes on the case.
Watercooling IMO is totally unnecessary, and "silent" water cooling is largely a myth. First of all the radiators are gonna have fans on them, so there's no getting away from fans no matter what you do. And if you go with one of the Asetek closed loop rebadges, it's total luck of the draw on the pump. Some of them are pretty quiet, some of them make a total racket.
If you're not that into overclocking, there's absolutely zero need to water cool the CPU. A stock or near stock CPU can easily be run dead silent with a good Noctua, Prolimatech, BeQuiet, or Thermalright tower cooler. Just turn the fan down, and/or get a good one (see above) for coolers that don't already come with fans.
For the GPU, just stick an Artic Cooling on it. Noise problem solved.
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hello,
good source for reviews of CPU coolers, measures performance and noise.
http://www.frostytech.com/
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Well if you don't overclock I would change the case and get the new Fractal Define R5, GTX 780 don't heat at all, for the CPU cooler you could get some nice one from noctua or even an hyper 212X, I guess the hyper 212X will be more than enough, I have an cheap i3 with the cheapo Tx3 Evo and the cooler don't need to spind more than 25%.
Power suply tend to be really noisy too, there are some passive ones, although they're expensive, you could get one that don't spin the fan on idle, something like the RM from corsair. HDD may get noisy too, but there isn't a lot that you can do.
Ow, just one more thing, don't use screws to screw the fans on the case, use something like this -> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Akasa-AK-MX003-Siliconized-Rubber-Pins/dp/B003N7YZLC
Although some guys don't think that these rubber pin work, I disagree :P
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Power suply tend to be really noisy too, there are some passive ones, although they're expensive, you could get one that don't spin the fan on idle, something like the RM from corsair. HDD may get noisy too, but there isn't a lot that you can do.
Actually there's quite a bit that can be done with HDDs. The most effective solution is a completely sealed enclosure that fits in a 5.25" bay, but those are pretty hard to come by these days since those after silent computers have moved to SSDs. The next best thing would be to rig up some kind of rubber band suspension system sort of like what Antec did in the Sonata cases IIRC. A significant amount of the noise that you get with platter drives comes from the vibration transfer to the case as opposed to noise from the drive itself.
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Best way to manage heat and noise from a GPU is to move to a Maxwell architecture.
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Goodness no! Don't bother with watercooling. Anyone who tells you watercooling is quieter than air (except for very high OCs) is obviously deaf. You're still using fans and pumps make noise.
Skip stock GPU cooling and go for big aftermarket air. Get a Prolimatech MK-26 or Raijintek Morpheus if you're serious about having a truly quiet setup. Strap some Noctua NF-S12A PWM fans controlled with software at 400rpm and be done with it. My GTX980 won't go past 60C with the fans spinning at 600rpm for max load benching. You will always be able to use the cooler when you upgrade GPUs. Can probably run mine passive too.
For HDDs, you try to avoid them as much as possible. If you can't, smother them with dense material to muffle the rotational noise, and hang on an elastic suspension to prevent vibrational noise. The new issue that comes up is heat as you're now smothering it. I have yet to solve that...
Any noise from CPU?
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Cool, thanks for all the input guys. Haven't read into water coolers that much, but obviously knew there was a fan somewhere. So the pumps generate noise as well. Too much hassle for a minimal advantage, if not closer to zero.
The noctua I have on the i7 isn't too bad and probably manageable if there weren't holes on top of the case. Still it's the gpu first and foremost that yells through. I have the i7 that came out just before the ivy bridges, 950 I think. I think the price drop was to a half (from 600 to 300eur or something), but the new ivy ones started from that price range. Had I waited for a couple of months. Doh. Well that was few years ago. Still running quite smooth though.
The gpu doesn't get past 60c for me either when under stress. 24c at idle, which might explain some of the noise. Also my place is at 18 or so celcius, so it's relatively cooler, even in the summer.
At the moment, the noise from the power supply is nonexistent, probably due to being so far away. I get the idea that without decent airflow the fans compensate for it and you're not fixing the problem. I'll look into the cases and aftermarket coolers. I'm sure I'll be able to make a decent upgrade without breaking the bank. First I'll do a bit of inspecting. Maybe an external NAS for the HDD's to eliminate that issue and so on.
Hahaa, seems there wasn't a simple solution after all! Thought I'd just get a damp case and be done with it. Damn HD800, already after three dates she starts making me do stuff. Am I not good enough as I am?
Thanks again.
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The holes aren't making that difference in noise for you, trust me.
(http://i.imgur.com/VAuHI63l.jpg)
What you need is beefier heatsinks and knowing how to set a good fan profile. You probably aren't providing enough airflow for your components. My GPU at max load is probably quieter than yours at idle. Your temps come at a high cost of noise.
Using a traditional case makes things very complicated when fans are involved. Cases limit airflow from feeding directly to the heatsink fans and make deadzones. The solution for that is to add case fans, but more fans mean more noise. Grills also equal more noise from the turbulence and restrictiveness. The ideal enclosed case would have open holes (no grills) right next to the heatsink fans, but I haven't found the perfect one yet. My best solution is open air. No restrictions means more efficient cooling so less fans - less fans, less noise. Then you need nice fans that perform well at low rpms.
If you can ditch the HAF X for open air, that is ideal but I don't expect you to and the weakness of this setup is HDDs. We can still make the best of the HAF X with good fan placement (and grill gutting) and using nicer fans.
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I've installed some filters in the haf x since dust is a bit of a problem where I live at the moment and open case just doesn't seem reasonable due to space restrictions. Can't really put it on the floor.
I get your logic though. What I meant about the holes is that I can see the gpu through the top fans from where I sit. I block it and get reduced noise, probably also due to damping/removing vibration on the case from the pressure. I've tried a few different combinations for positioning the cpu fan, but without significant performance changes. Not much else to do with the Haf x, except to change the fans and do some modding to the case.
Thanks for the viewpoint though. Bit hard core for me to get huge noctuas. As you said, traditional cases make it tricky. Will look into it though. Aftermarket cooling/fans seem to be the way to go though.
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I've installed some filters in the haf x since dust is a bit of a problem where I live at the moment and open case just doesn't seem reasonable due to space restrictions. Can't really put it on the floor.
Yeah going completely open air is a bit extreme and not really necessary IMO. Part of the issue with the HAF X is that it's probably a lot bigger than you need, and it's a very traditional layout which is inefficient for airflow. The farther away the case fans are from the heat sources, the harder they have to work to do the same job.
What's clever about the FT05 design is that it puts the airflow right on top of the GPU, without a direct sound path and at the same time without severe intake restrictions like you get with a Fractal Design case. The downside is that there's basically no room for 3.5" drives at all (two can be shoved under the PSU, but not very well), only a couple of SSDs, and the build quality is average.
(http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/wolfman468/The%20Penetrator/IMG_00061.jpg)
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Another option is the Cooltek/Jonsbo W2, which is a side-by-side style. More HDD space than the Silverstone, and likely better made, but you'd have to import it because there's no Rosewill version as of yet.
(http://www.quietpc.com/images/products/cooltek-jonsbo-w2-air-large.jpg)
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Half your problem is from using filters or blocking the noise! That restricts airflow! Then you have to crank the fans higher to get the same cooling which means more noise. Also the 200mm fans on the HAF X are complete garbage. Stick with high quality 120 or 140mm. If you have a dust issue, get your case off the floor and give it a cleaning every few months! I run my rig 24/7 and I don't get much dust at all. Probably should take it out to clean since it's been over a year since.
If it must be in an enclosure, then the HAF XB Evo would be your best bet. It's a very breathable without layout weaknesses like the FT05 (vertical GPU mounting and loud stock 180mm fans) and Jonsbo W2 (highly restrictive intake fan openings).
If you're serious about quiet computing, you MUST overkill on cooling since the key is to keep fan speeds under 800rpm at all times.
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Yeah, some of my friends seem to like the idea that relatively simple works best. One big fan gushing against the gpu on the haf x is just one thing.. I could use the plastic part that directed the airflow against the gpu with dual HD6850's, but no space with the gtx780, ha.
But yeah, those are some good suggestions for cases. Seem minimalistic and decent in design. I like the Haf X for space and I used to have a crossfire configuration there. Have thought about getting another used 780 for SLI at some point, but I've found I don't play that much or seriously anymore, so maybe the Haf X is a bit too big. Borderlands pre sequel (not very good :spank:) ran with everything maxed (only FHD) smoothly at constant 60fps, and so do most the other games I play as well.
Good point about the seriousness. I mean I don't have a reference. I do not mean to go over the top, but so that I can enjoy music on open headphones. Interesting to view so opposing opinions. I know I can get good quality aftermarket fans and coolers, so maybe get those and a new case with decent (not superb) airflow, but also better noise dampening. I don't think these two approaches are mutually exclusive completely?
The filters were a conscious sacrifice to airflow, but that was when I was rocking a set of Paradox for computer stuff. I haven't done anything yet to the setup.
I live underground next to a dirt road so yeah, dust is a problem. Sure, I clean the computer every now and then and keep the place relatively clean, but am too lazy to get the computer out and open it up for thorough cleaning too often. I have a tight corner for work space, so at the moment I am not able to move the computer off the floor. I have some stuff under the wheels of the Haf X though so it doesn't look like santa claus always.
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This is why I like an open chassis. The best for passive cooling. Plus if you can build it quiet as an open chassis design, you don't need to worry about damping noise. Not to mention easy access to components. If you have pets or kids then obviously it's not so simple.
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I'd like a supercar with over 1000hp, do 0-120mph in under 5 secs, have 50mpg, go off road, uses cheap tires, ride like a Phantom, and cost under 50k.
You got too many restrictions. Be willing to compromise somewhere. You can't have quiet with filters. A smaller case will be a lot easier to carry outside to clean. Dampening won't be needed if you overkill on coolers. That i7 950 isn't helping your goal either so you better overkill or upgrade.
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If it must be in an enclosure, then the HAF XB Evo would be your best bet. It's a very breathable without layout weaknesses like the FT05 (vertical GPU mounting and loud stock 180mm fans) and Jonsbo W2 (highly restrictive intake fan openings).
The key is balancing airflow vs sound restriction. A directly open path obviously provides the best airflow, but sound restriction is zero, so things like clicking motors on PWM fans and bearing noise can be more of an issue. There can be a happy medium that still allows for dust avoidance.
CPUs are easy to keep quiet in most scenarios, the problem for most people is going to be the GPU, and unless you've got a GTX960, that stock cooler has got to go. An AC Xtreme IV will be vastly quieter than anybody's stock cooler, and it will still fit in the average case which most of the huge coolers will not.
(http://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/IMG_7841.jpg)
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Which is why I recommend the newest gen of Noctua fans - they have the best noise/performance blend. Motors don't click either and the tone is quite pleasant.
There's absolutely no reason to go with the AC Extreme when the Prolimatech MK-26 and Raijintek Morpheus are on the market. An average sized case will fit an MK-26 which is a very wide cooler, then the Morpheus is still an option if the case isn't wide enough. The stock fans on the AC's are garbage compared to proper high quality 120mm's. So the coolers I prefer are better than what the AC can do in every way. Not like the AC doesn't take up 4 slots anyway.
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Cool, thanks for all the input guys. Haven't read into water coolers that much, but obviously knew there was a fan somewhere. So the pumps generate noise as well. Too much hassle for a minimal advantage, if not closer to zero.
The noctua I have on the i7 isn't too bad and probably manageable if there weren't holes on top of the case. Still it's the gpu first and foremost that yells through. I have the i7 that came out just before the ivy bridges, 950 I think. I think the price drop was to a half (from 600 to 300eur or something), but the new ivy ones started from that price range. Had I waited for a couple of months. Doh. Well that was few years ago. Still running quite smooth though.
The gpu doesn't get past 60c for me either when under stress. 24c at idle, which might explain some of the noise. Also my place is at 18 or so celcius, so it's relatively cooler, even in the summer.
At the moment, the noise from the power supply is nonexistent, probably due to being so far away. I get the idea that without decent airflow the fans compensate for it and you're not fixing the problem. I'll look into the cases and aftermarket coolers. I'm sure I'll be able to make a decent upgrade without breaking the bank. First I'll do a bit of inspecting. Maybe an external NAS for the HDD's to eliminate that issue and so on.
Hahaa, seems there wasn't a simple solution after all! Thought I'd just get a damp case and be done with it. Damn HD800, already after three dates she starts making me do stuff. Am I not good enough as I am?
Thanks again.
Yep - graphics cards are usually the noisiest components in the PC. Unfortunately most of the stock or even third party coolers are still noisy, and nowhere near silent. Either finding the most quiet third party cooler fitted graphics card or fitting an aftermarket cooler would be a major priority.
Before i did a closed case build, but case fans always add noise, and especially when using filters in front of intake fans, you can either have very low fan speed (and high case temps) or higher fans speeds with more noise. Open can is better but not child or pet safe. Closed case with no filters might work, but requires regular cleaning, and will still run hotter than open case.
Water cooling is typically wasted by the pump noise, at least with off the shelf pumps. Like way more noise than air cooling. For me I consider 10-12 dB quiet, and only the quietest Noctua's silent (rated like 7 dB or something). Pumps are like 30+ dB.
NAS for the HDD's would be a good idea - SSD storage is still expensive. Well all depends who much storage is needed I guess.
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Which is why I recommend the newest gen of Noctua fans - they have the best noise/performance blend. Motors don't click either and the tone is quite pleasant.
Which ones are the newer gen?
Is this Noctua NF-A15 of newer generation?
I ask because the older ones didn't quite shine in reviews.
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Which ones are the newer gen?
Is this Noctua NF-A15 of newer generation?
I ask because the older ones didn't quite shine in reviews.
Yup! NF-A14/15 and NF-S12A (not B). The older fans had motor noise but these are simply fantastic. I ditched my Thermalrights, Noiseblockers, and Be Quiets once they came out. Don't bother with the NF-F12 though, they suck.
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Thanks, i'll try them out.
I don't trust the review sites too much after i purchased
some BitFenix and Arctic, even Thermalright fans in good hope, but these suck for me.
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Don't even start on how much I hate those review sites. The reviewer is either deaf, testing on a busy street, or both. The Bitfenix are complete garbage. They need to give me money to take them.
The NF-A15 have a whiny tone at 1000rpm+ so it's recommended to limit them and overkill with the heatsink. It shines at lower rpm with good cooling, no ticks, and can drop down to 300rpm.
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and can drop down to 300rpm.
Awesome :)p1
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Cool. Things are going forward! Got a two bay NAS (Zyxel NSA325v2) with two 3TB HDD's I got for rather cheap. A certain shop's getting closed down and they're getting rid of stuff for good prices. (Unopened still in the wraps HD800+CH800s for 660eur, that's about 750usd with the current dollar rate... Don't tell anyone :)p1)
When I choose the dac and amp for the HD800, I begin tweaking with the computer. It's run well for almost 4 years, so maybe it's time to go Haswell... Little brother might be interested in upgrading his desktop, so he can pretty much have everything apart from the GPU and SSD.
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Skylake will be out in 2nd half of this year. I highly recommend waiting for it. Haswell runs really hot because of the FIVR. I know I'm ditching my Haswell rig once Skylake is out.
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Thanks for the heads up. Not in a rush and will definitely look Skylake up and wait for it.
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Skylake will be out in 2nd half of this year. I highly recommend waiting for it. Haswell runs really hot because of the FIVR. I know I'm ditching my Haswell rig once Skylake is out.
I have a Haswell rig and I'm pleased with its performance though it definitely runs hot when pushed. Skylake should be nice but I'm also waiting for some of the PCIE, M2, DDR4, USB 3.1 etc changes to play out. My Haswell rig is killer for what I need to do so I'm going to be watching and waiting.
For a new buyer (electropop) I'd definitely wait.
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All this talk makes me want to finally buy some nice big Noctua fans. My case is a Nanoxia Deep Silence 2.
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Haswell does run fine for now, but I just like upgrading every over generation. Skylake is being hyped by Intel as the greatest chip in the last 10 years so I think it's worth checking out.
PCI-e SSDs have really caught my attention lately. Intel is rumoured to release the 750 which is supposed to be consumer version of the P3700 or rebadged P3500.
For your DS2, you'll need to buy 2x NF-A14 PWM and 2x NF-S12A PWM fans. S12A's go in the front of your case with the filters removed and A14's with one to the top-front position and one on the bottom next to the PSU. A side fan would also help but I can't tell whats the mounting hole size. No rear fan needed; get a nibbler tool and gut out that rear grill.
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I'm way too lazy to be upgrading every so often, especially when I'm not even reaping the benefits of my current i7. Some video renders could be quicker, but overall the system runs smooth and lag free.
That said, laziness also makes me wait. Skylake could be the thing, but third quarter, I dunno. Pretty set on a Valhalla 2, but not sure about the DAC yet. Will see how fast things develop.
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Noctua are one of those companies that you pay a shitload for not a lot. They're not significantly quieter than the competition and they generally don't undervolt gracefully. If I were going for a 140mm fan, I'd take some Thermalright TY series fans. They're literally identical in fan blade and frame profile to Noctua's 140mm offerings yet were significantly cheaper when I last checked. I also prefer their tone characteristics over Noctua fans.
If getting the best you can absolutely get is your thing, stuff from Noiseblocker (eg. eLoops) should be a similar price to Noctua mainline products but better performing in just about every worthwhile metric.
Don't even start on how much I hate those review sites. The reviewer is either deaf, testing on a busy street, or both. The Bitfenix are complete garbage. They need to give me money to take them.
The NF-A15 have a whiny tone at 1000rpm+ so it's recommended to limit them and overkill with the heatsink. It shines at lower rpm with good cooling, no ticks, and can drop down to 300rpm.
So I take it that the new A series doesn't have any of the problems the the P and F series have? I might have to check them out because the P and F series were garbage.
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Looking for second opinions on my current build, mainly worried if the cooling will be adequate:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=31226947
Only the CPU should ever be doing anything extremely intensive, namely video encoding/livestreaming; the GPU is for compatibility as I'll be using Photoshop, Google SketchUp, Blender, etc quite frequently and need lots of VRAM for multiple monitors
I have built and worked on several systems before but I've never done an ITX build so I'm not sure what to expect cooling wise, the Cryorig should be taking air in and the PSU fan should be pushing it out, which seems like it should work fairly well but I want to be sure cuz I put a really fucking powerful i7 in there (which I can underclock if need be)
oh, and OS is Server 2008 R2
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Noctua are one of those companies that you pay a shitload for not a lot. They're not significantly quieter than the competition and they generally don't undervolt gracefully. If I were going for a 140mm fan, I'd take some Thermalright TY series fans. They're literally identical in fan blade and frame profile to Noctua's 140mm offerings yet were significantly cheaper when I last checked. I also prefer their tone characteristics over Noctua fans.
If getting the best you can absolutely get is your thing, stuff from Noiseblocker (eg. eLoops) should be a similar price to Noctua mainline products but better performing in just about every worthwhile metric.
Problem is who took the measurements for the 'metric'. I have tried fans with roughly equivalent 'metric'-s that perform nothing alike.
Regarding Themalright i agree that the TY are seriously quiet, but mine were unreliable, bearings or something inside produced really annoying ''click-click-click'' sounds after a year of use as CPU cooler.
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Noctua are one of those companies that you pay a shitload for not a lot. They're not significantly quieter than the competition and they generally don't undervolt gracefully. If I were going for a 140mm fan, I'd take some Thermalright TY series fans. They're literally identical in fan blade and frame profile to Noctua's 140mm offerings yet were significantly cheaper when I last checked. I also prefer their tone characteristics over Noctua fans.
If getting the best you can absolutely get is your thing, stuff from Noiseblocker (eg. eLoops) should be a similar price to Noctua mainline products but better performing in just about every worthwhile metric.
So I take it that the new A series doesn't have any of the problems the the P and F series have? I might have to check them out because the P and F series were garbage.
I thought Noctua was highly overrated with the P and F series that people on OCN raved about. I was also using TY-140s at the time which have been replaced by the Noctuas. TY-140s were slightly clicky but had a good tone at higher RPMs. The A series doesn't have any of those issue that P and F series had which makes it shine at low RPM, only caveat is it's slightly whiny tone at high RPM which I limit so no big deal.
I've also tried the eLoops which were not that impressive. Quiet but very little airflow for what it was. You name it, I've tried it.
Looking for second opinions on my current build, mainly worried if the cooling will be adequate:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=31226947
Only the CPU should ever be doing anything extremely intensive, namely video encoding/livestreaming; the GPU is for compatibility as I'll be using Photoshop, Google SketchUp, Blender, etc quite frequently and need lots of VRAM for multiple monitors
I have built and worked on several systems before but I've never done an ITX build so I'm not sure what to expect cooling wise, the Cryorig should be taking air in and the PSU fan should be pushing it out, which seems like it should work fairly well but I want to be sure cuz I put a really fucking powerful i7 in there (which I can underclock if need be)
oh, and OS is Server 2008 R2
Depends how quiet you expect it to be. I'd consider it loud.
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If getting the best you can absolutely get is your thing, stuff from Noiseblocker (eg. eLoops) should be a similar price to Noctua mainline products but better performing in just about every worthwhile metric.
Unfortunately the eLoop is a step back from the Multi-frame series. Noiseblocker describes the eLoop as a "mid grade" fan similar to their Black Silent Pro series, whereas the Multi-frame was a "top grade." The Multi-frames are VERY good fans, but AFAIK they never made a 140mm version, and I'm pretty sure they've been discontinued so they're not that easy to get.
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Looking for second opinions on my current build, mainly worried if the cooling will be adequate:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=31226947
Only the CPU should ever be doing anything extremely intensive, namely video encoding/livestreaming; the GPU is for compatibility as I'll be using Photoshop, Google SketchUp, Blender, etc quite frequently and need lots of VRAM for multiple monitors
I have built and worked on several systems before but I've never done an ITX build so I'm not sure what to expect cooling wise, the Cryorig should be taking air in and the PSU fan should be pushing it out, which seems like it should work fairly well but I want to be sure cuz I put a really fucking powerful i7 in there (which I can underclock if need be)
oh, and OS is Server 2008 R2
Do you need ITX for a specific reason? ITX can be done quietly, but not like that. You simply need more space than you've got with that case. If you have no interest in low noise it will probably be adequate, but rather than underclocking which seems like you're basically flushing money down the toilet, why not get something a bit bigger so you can use a larger, and far more effective down draft cooler like a Phanteks or Noctua?
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Do you need ITX for a specific reason? ITX can be done quietly, but not like that. You simply need more space than you've got with that case. If you have no interest in low noise it will probably be adequate, but rather than underclocking which seems like you're basically flushing money down the toilet, why not get something a bit bigger so you can use a larger, and far more effective down draft cooler like a Phanteks or Noctua?
I'm using that case due to limited desk space and the fact that it's sexy as hell (imo at least), noise will not be an issue, I just don't want a space heater/fireplace
My friend keeps trying to make me not do ITX as well but I just really want to use that case, and I picked that specific i7 due to the fact that it's the best single core performance on the market atm
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I'm using that case due to limited desk space and the fact that it's sexy as hell (imo at least), noise will not be an issue, I just don't want a space heater/fireplace
My friend keeps trying to make me not do ITX as well but I just really want to use that case, and I picked that specific i7 due to the fact that it's the best single core performance on the market atm
How about this guy? It's also very cool looking, and you have 130mm of height available for the CPU cooler. Since it sounds like you're going to be doing 2D work, I would also opt for a GTX960 4GB over the 970. Less power, less heat, and when the cards are under 60C or so, the fans shut off.
(http://images.anandtech.com/galleries/2786/q03-01_575px.jpg)
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For ITX, I say the Silverstone ML07B is a better choice. This is a case that will actually get good cooling and is SFF.
(http://static.scan.co.uk/images/products/2391901-b.jpg)(http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/11-163-256-TS?$S300W$)
Has a 90 degree PCI-e riser so the GPU lays flat right next to the vent which gives it very good airflow. And supports CPU coolers up with 83mm height. Looks like you could fit a Thermalright AXP-200 or Cryorig C1.
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The case is not up for debate, though the Silverstone is tempting. Maybe...
Also, I already have a Cryorig C1 in the build (and it will fit). Also, I'm not quite sure how you came to the conclusion that I'll be doing mostly 2D work, I listed two 3D applications and only one 2D application...
I wasn't even aware there was a 960. I was going to get a 950 but my friend told me that doesn't exist so I went for the 970. Was the 960 released along with the 970 and 980? I don't recall seeing it when I first built this system (a few months ago)...
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960 is a few weeks to a month old.
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Per reviews price per performance is better on the 970, also thermally not a massive difference.
Both (960 and 970) Asus and MSI cards turn fans off while idle.
Now i got interested in a transportable rig myself :wheel:
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Welp, turns out the Lian Li is actually too big to fit where I wanted it on my desk, so I guess I'm getting the Silverstone after all
Seriously I have to be the only person alive who designs an ITX system and ends up being unable to fit the CASE on his goddamn DESK
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Roughly what are the dimensions of the space you have available on your desk?
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Roughly what are the dimensions of the space you have available on your desk?
I have about 6" x 19" x 12" (LxHxD) to work with. The Lian Li is literally 1/3rd of an inch too tall, without the stand (so I can't just remove the stand to make it fit). It has to fit under a shelf built into the desk, which is detachable, but is currently occupied by my belongings.
I considered using some spacers to raise the shelf slightly but that might make it unstable, and there are a couple (very) heavy statues on it that would be destroyed if they fell, not to mention the various expensive objects (or people!!) they might take out on the way down. I don't really have anywhere else I can put them, either. Even after getting rid of half my shit my bedroom is still a clusterfuck...
The only reason I'm not keen on the Silverstone is that my monitor is going to absolutely dwarf it, and it's gonna stick out a bit more than I'd like.
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Holy fuck, nevermind. Fuck ITX, they have a slimline ATX case now.
(http://content.hwigroup.net/images/news/LianLi_PC-O5S_02.jpg)
http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-o7s/
Would like a more symmetrical faceplate but I'm not about to complain too much...
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Ufff this definitely looks interesting!!
I'm using at the moment my Fractal Design Mini-ITX box (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6470/fractal-design-node-304-mitx-case-review-paving-the-way-to-the-future) and I like it a lot but of course, it limits my options. A build with this Lian-Li would be excellent...
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If you're looking at smaller cases, I'd peek over at overclock.net's pretty extensive thread:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1300645/official-usff-sff-club
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Oh Wow.
That's an epic thread!!!!
Thanks!
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Dude you posted where are the build pics?
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http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-o7s/
That is a sweet case!