CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Music and Recordings => Topic started by: Marvey on January 01, 2013, 12:54:54 AM
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Rostropovich:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU_QR_FTt3E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU_QR_FTt3E)
Yo Yo Ma:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZn_VBgkPNY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZn_VBgkPNY)
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I like both really, depends more on my mood. For the entire collection of suites I'd choose Rostropovich though.
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I prefer Rostropovich, simply because of the manner in which he plays it, rather than tonal qualities or anything like that. As a piece of Baroque music, I think that Yo Yo Ma takes it too much in the direction of aleatoricism, with his large use of rubato in the opening passages. In my opinion, that is not what Bach or Baroque music is.
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Rostropovich, the metronome, or Yo Yo Ma who has no concept of what a metronome is... I pick neither and supply my own answer.
Not Casals, Fournier, du Pré, or Starker
Video of all of the above including the poll options:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVDHC-_ybOQ
Then there's Mischa Maisky, who wipes the deck with the above on Bach, IMO. Not as rubato as Yo Yo, not as strict as Rostropovich. The most emotionally expressive, while retaining a copy of the song that is still recognizable (hello Yo Yo). Maisky plays this almost exactly how I do, slight speed ups with crescendos on the swells, while still clean and relatively in-time. His speed and volume changes actually make sense compared to Yo Yo. Fournier is probably my 3rd, though he tends to play Bach too slow and it stretches out to near unrecognizability.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6yuR8efotI&list=PLA70D07FB6C624D3A
If I had to choose between the poll options I'd go for Rostropovich no question. The original Bach style is certainly as Rostropovich plays it, but being a romantic fan, I love playing around with stuff and adding emotion in my playing, so I prefer a romanticized Bach to the original.
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Casals. And the reissue sounds good.
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I prefer Rostropovich, simply because of the manner in which he plays it, rather than tonal qualities or anything like that. As a piece of Baroque music, I think that Yo Yo Ma takes it too much in the direction of aleatoricism, with his large use of rubato in the opening passages. In my opinion, that is not what Bach or Baroque music is.
^ This.
I eventually bought the Rostropovich. The reason I asked is because it seemed the reviewers on Amazon much preferred the YoYo version (but of course no one was able to explain why they felt YoYo was best in clear or technical terms). YouTube of course helped sort things out for me.
Then there's Mischa Maisky, who wipes the deck with the above on Bach, IMO. Not as rubato as Yo Yo, not as strict as Rostropovich. The most emotionally expressive, while retaining a copy of the song that is still...
That's next for me. Totally agree with you. A modern interpretation that doesn't descend into Yo Yo Ma's gheyness. IMO, Bach is definitely not supposed to sound ghey. I mean, he was the great-great grandfather of Heavy Metal.
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My first exposure to the the Cello Suites was Casals and is most likely the reason it is my favorite.
There are really so many great recordings to choose from. Lately I've been listening to Zuil Bailey.
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I have the "Cello Suites" performed by Roel Dieltiens.
Yo Yo Ma seems to take his time a bit too much compared to Rostropovich. I like both...
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Sticking with the poll, I prefer Ma over Rostropovich because I enjoy a more laid back, expressive approach to the Prelude in G. Maisky has an awesome interpretation. DuPre I think was only 16 and it was a terrible recording, but I can really connect with her emotion even though her technique had not yet matured. She probably would have had an amazing interpretation later in life if she were able to.
Now the Prelude in C, I would prefer Rostropovich easily. The opening commanding 'C' note lets you now what's coming is no joke:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtqGgXh3dLs
I have the DVD's for that performance. He also includes a kind of masterclass for each suite that is indispensable.
There's no wrong answers here, only preferences and a celebration of the unparalleled genius of the composer.
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Feel free to posts more cheesy X vs. Y polls up. (make it simple instead of complex.) I'm always looking for different interpretations. Honestly, I haven't purchased much classical since the 90s. Seems nothing new or that interesting in past 10 years, but then again I haven't been looking that hard. I feel the heyday of classical recordings was in the past.
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Wow. Send me a 500 gig hard drive and I'll fill it for you with new music and new performances of old favorites that will blow your doors off. Here are five recommendations to get you started.
(1) The ongoing Royal Liverpool Philharmonic/Petrenko Shostakovich symphony cycle. You can really start anywhere, but my personal favorite is number 11.
(2) Adams is at the top of his game. There's no recording yet of "The Passion According to the Other Mary," the choral work that the LA Phil and LA Master Chorale premiered last year (I caught the Sunday afternoon performance and was amazed), but there is a solid live recording of "City Noir" from Dudamel's first night as music director of the LA Phil, and a great recording of "Son of Chamber Symphony" with the composer leading the International Contemporary Ensemble.
(3) Thomas Ades is another contemporary composer who keeps hitting home runs. Start with the premiere recording of his Violin Concerto, with Anthony Marwood as soloist and the composer leading the Chamber Orchestra of Europe. Then try his opera "The Tempest."
(4) I don't know of a complete set of Beethoven piano sonatas that is as consistently good as Paul Lewis.'
(5) The BBC Symphony under Edward Gardner have been on a roll with 20th Century Polish composers. The three volumes of Lutoslawski were consistently excellent, and the first volume of Szymanowski is every bit as good. Great sounding recordings, too; the hi-res downloads (available at theclassicalstore.net) are fabulous.
Enjoy!
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I'm with Yo-Yo MA all the way, Saw Him in Toronto in May... By the way, thanks for this thread, I've been so caught up with "New" music of late, I'd almost forgotten the "Old" music!
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I voted Rostropovich. I'm far from an expert, but from my perspective Rostropovich seemed more fluid, the tempo seemed more appropriate, and I liked his version more.
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I voted Rostropovich, but I prefer Mischa Maisky as well.
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I voted Rostropovich. I'm far from an expert, but from my perspective Rostropovich seemed more fluid, the tempo seemed more appropriate, and I liked his version more.
This.
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Rostropovich over Yo Yo but my absolute favorite is Janos Starker. :)
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Rostropovich over Ma, but I'm another for Casals.
Honestly, I like nearly anyone more than Ma, his work is too rubato (thinking this is the right term, but not sure).
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I'm going to listen again when I have the chance but if I was forced to choose right now from links posted (thanks Maxvla for your links):
Then:
YoYo over Rostropovich.
Rostropovich too rushed for my tastes...coming from Segovia and the Classical Guitar (granted, I can only play the Bouree).
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CLICHE ALERT!!!!! facepalm
I'm gonna pull a "I had my XXXXXX listen and she thought":
- Yo Yo over Rostropovich (if she had to choose between 1&2)
If ranking Maxvla's Videos:
1.5 Maisky
2. Starker (LFF's fave!)
3. Rostropovich (6 Cellists video)
4. Ma (6 Cellists video)
5. DuPre
6. Fournier (LOL, I liked Fournier's balance...but too staid for her.)
Her vote doesn't "count", but at 2am it is an interesting exercise before I pass out. :)p15
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.... but my absolute favorite is Janos Starker. :)
Dubstep Girl has probably never heard this music, but nevertheless agrees with LFF. :)
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Rostropovich of the two although he doesn't take as many liberties as I'd like.
Not my absolute favorite, but of the more bold interpretations out there, I love Queyras:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhGuSSMYZFE&fmt=18
That particular set is also wonderfully recorded
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Of those 2 I prefer Yo Yo Ma.
But my favorites would be Pieter Wispelwey or Anner Bylsma
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LcDgbXPFVKs/TCYeLyBJSzI/AAAAAAAABJM/jCBY6tmF7y4/s1600/portada+bach+cello.jpg)
Anner Bylsma (very slow!. 1th movementhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL95vwU92qo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL95vwU92qo)
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Rostropovitch may be a greater musical personality, but it is still a matter of temperament if one likes his way of interpreting this music. ( I voted for the more easy-going Yo Yo).
The suites in general:
Steven Isserlis for exquisite phrasing. Through this he makes the well known music sound fresh without resorting to peculiarities. Shows a degree of musical intelligence which is rare.
Ophelie Gaillard for performing in a convincing baroqe style (without the HIP-ish exaggerations of her teacher Bylsma). By her the music sounds playful, dansant, energic, spontaneous in the right degree, and without traces of romanticism etc.
(In comparison Rostropovich to me sounds out of style and rather boring/predictable, despite the greatness in terms of surefooted perfectionism, emotional engagement and a certain grandeur.. ).
Harnoncourts old recording of the suites: A good compromise: Good phrasing, convincing style. A tad on the dry side though, as I remember it. (H is better known as a conductor nowadays, of course)
Talking of sound, a sad fact is the overuse of (mainly) artificial reverberation in most modern solo cello recordings on CD I have heard. The sound engineers seem to think that they must help the poor single instrument along ( to sound more like a string orchestra or smth).
It is almost a shocking experience to stumble over a honest-sounding cello recording, say, like the true mono (=not just mixed down mono) of Starker on Saga LP. Suddenly you feel that you have a cellist playing in your living room! Much better than his famous Mercyry Living Presence recording, which in addition has far to much treble in it.
The use of too extreme close-up recordings is another annoyance, I find. One does not come closer to the music by putting ones head into the body of the instrument. (same thing with pornography if you ask me), The sound quality in the Paolo Beschi recording, say, is impeccable, but it puts you in the cellist's place,rather than in a comfortable seat at an ideal distance. Cheers, Olaf.
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There's always something a tad off with Nikolaus Harnoncourt's stuff. A lot of people like him for his supposed period accuracy. My son (6 yrs) likes his Mozart EKNM but I don't.
EDIT: I should probably answer the original question. On paper, I like Rostropovich but my mood right now vastly prefers Yo Yo Ma. But taking third options, Maisky walks all over the others and then eats their lunch, too. He also looks like the business.
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Both are equally good depending on ones mood ,but I voted Rostropovich only because the Yo-yo Ma clip wasn't the best.
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Zuill Bailey would be my first choice as he combines the dynamism of Rostropovitch and the lyricism of Yoyo Ma
His interpretation is fresh whilst respecting Bachs' original composition and i'm sure he would have been thrilled by the end result
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oDUsab-uQlI
http://www.allmusic.com/album/bach-cello-suites-mw0001961939 (http://www.allmusic.com/album/bach-cello-suites-mw0001961939)
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Well you know that I did purposely choose two of very different styles and avoided anyone in the middle...
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No its not an in the middle (of the road\0 interpretation but one I think you will find unique.
Normally cellists either play Bach very romantically or over emphasise the dynamics and it becomes a dream queen. ::)
For me this interpretation by Bailey hits the sweet spot in terms of what Bach probably intended when you compare it to many of his other works
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No its not an in the middle (of the road\0 interpretation but one I think you will find unique.
Normally cellists either play Bach very romantically or over emphasise the dynamics and it becomes a dream queen. ::)
For me this interpretation by Bailey hits the sweet spot in terms of what Bach probably intended when you compare it to many of his other works
Really? I find the romantic interpretation to be on the rarer side. Most play it like on a metronome, or close, and with nearly no emotion. There are many that are like Ma and you can't even recognize the song due to their interference. I don't consider that romantic, rather trash. There's a clear difference between Ma and Maisky. While not being true Bach style, I find Maisky to be a reasonable modern interpretation. Bailey is not as bad as Ma, but he does these unexplainable note elongations at random that totally destroy the flow of the music. It's really odd.
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There are many that are like Ma and you can't even recognize the song due to their interference. I don't consider that romantic, rather trash. There's a clear difference between Ma and Maisky. While not being true Bach style, I find Maisky to be a reasonable modern interpretation.
LOL on the "trash". I kind of agree. I do like Mischa's quite a bit. There needs to be some element of heavy metal with Bach. Or maybe it goes the other way around.
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Some metal?
Badinerie (Bach)(Metal Version) - Evil Masquerade…: http://youtu.be/X6DoQpfojw4
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Well what is true Bach style?
As you say its down to interpretation, modern or otherwise :)
Some would insist it is played on a period instruments and the guidance in the score strictly adhered to.
What I listen for is the player have a real affinity with the music they is playing and does the performance move me (touch my soul)
IMHO many of the greatest interpreters have been unconventional and not stuck by the letter of the original score Its an interpretation.
Some who come to mind are Bernstein, Dudamel, Solti, and Gergiev.
I feel Misky falls firmly into the unconventional category too. One well known musical critic said of his Bach Suites interpretation "It seems as if the cellist takes Bach’s score merely as his starting point, from which he launches his own very personal, and transforming, commentary"
Personally I also have both the Rostropovich and Ma recordings, and in their style rate as some of the best. I tend to select the artists interpretation according to my mood and appreciate them all as great music making!
Just like Schuberts' great string quintet D956, I must have nearly a dozen great but different interpretations ranging from the 1930's to current day. Taking the pedantic purist view all could be criticised as flawed, but all connect both musically and emotionally.
No its not an in the middle (of the road\0 interpretation but one I think you will find unique.
Normally cellists either play Bach very romantically or over emphasise the dynamics and it becomes a dream queen. ::)
For me this interpretation by Bailey hits the sweet spot in terms of what Bach probably intended when you compare it to many of his other works
Really? I find the romantic interpretation to be on the rarer side. Most play it like on a metronome, or close, and with nearly no emotion. There are many that are like Ma and you can't even recognize the song due to their interference. I don't consider that romantic, rather trash. There's a clear difference between Ma and Maisky. While not being true Bach style, I find Maisky to be a reasonable modern interpretation. Bailey is not as bad as Ma, but he does these unexplainable note elongations at random that totally destroy the flow of the music. It's really odd.
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I should probably point out that Mischa Maisky has gotten, IMO, a bit loose and "bobbly" in his interpretations over the last decade. His stuff from the 90's is the friggin' shizniggle.
EDIT: And a new thought just struck me.
Why don't we have this in duet form?
Think about the beauty you get get from a Rostropovich style with the lower notes, the troughs, having some sustain?!
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How about this one by Dutch Barok master Anner Bylsma, too slow.........? i love it.
[vimeo]Not a valid Vimeo URL[/vimeo]
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For a highly interesting change of pace, check out Maxim Rysanov playing the cello suites on viola. Yeah, I know, sacrilege, but the interpretations are dead-on for me and it's a beautiful recording.
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Rostropovich of the two although he doesn't take as many liberties as I'd like.
Not my absolute favorite, but of the more bold interpretations out there, I love Queyras:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhGuSSMYZFE&fmt=18
That particular set is also wonderfully recorded
I just got this album last night, haven't had time to listen to it properly. Someone (I forget who) recommended it to me in the shoutbox some months ago and I'm really looking forward to it!
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This thread has made me curious for Rostropovich and his work.
I am listening to his rendition of Bach's Cello Suites for the third time now. He sounds as if he is holding back a bit without losing melody and feeling. His rendition is not the take my breath away music I sometimes enjoy. It does calm me down for long nights of homework and reading.
There is a charm to his style which I like a lot. His rendition is enjoyable in its own way...
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Exactly. I like many of the other renditions mentioned here, but not YoYo's. As Ahnold would say "too Girlie Man" for me.
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Currently, I've been favoring Ophélie Gaillard's 2013 version on baroque cello. It gives me chills just watching it. I just ordered her OOP '04 recordings of suites 3-5 from France.
http://youtu.be/poCw2CCrfzA
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Maybe it's because I actually saw Rostropovich perform this in the Barbican back in the 90s. Rostropovich all the way for me. The others are overblown to me, esp YoYo Ma's version.
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The cello suites are amongst my least favorite of Bach's works so it's hard for me to take my opinion seriously.*
Between Ma and Rostropovich, Rostropovich easily. Of all the ones in this thread so far, Fournier. I admire his Dvorak concerto with Szell too.
I have Casals' and Starker's, and don't care for either. I use Starker's to burn in new headphones with good results :P.
*maybe we need a "suicide king" emoticon
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Try Paul Tortellier's version too .
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513MF6GKX2L.jpg)
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Awake, zombie thread! :&
Looks like someone here wanted to emulate this post from classic.fm - http://www.classicfm.com/composers/bach/guides/bachs-cello-suites-where-start/
Anyway, for Bach cello suites, NEVER the likes of Ma or Maisky or Haimowitz - blech! This is NOT romantic music.
On the other hand (and every cellist has two), the baroque period-correct recordings by people like Anner Bylsma (1979; 1992) or Peter Wispelwey (not 1990 but the 1998 version - more info http://www.allmusic.com/album/bach-6-suites-for-cello-solo-2012-recording-mw0002428644 (http://www.allmusic.com/album/bach-6-suites-for-cello-solo-2012-recording-mw0002428644)) aren't for everyone (also Sigiswald Kuijken, etc - see http://jsbach.org/1011.html)
There are very high quality recordings also by Steven Isserlis, Maurice Gendron, but my current favorite is Heinrich Schiff.
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This is NOT romantic music.
My thoughts exactly!
I want to hurl every time I hear Itzhak Perlman play Mozart, which is thankfully a rare occasion.
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Tortelier, what else ?
And bach @ violin = Kremer. Period.
Ali
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One more vote for Fournier - the 1997 dual cd set is a gem.