CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Solderdude on July 14, 2014, 07:20:55 PM
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(http://diyaudioheaven.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/dt250-250.jpg?w=207&h=300)
The Beyerdynamic DT250 is a headphone intended for professional usage.
It has soft and comfortable velours earpads and if it weren’t for the clamping force, which is higher than for ‘hifi’ headphones, it could be worn for long listening sessions.
Very lightweight headphone as well.
The headphone is fully closed and provides excellent isolation from outside noises.
The sound is VERY neutral and accurate though lacks a certain finesse compared to the top-end headphones.
Those looking for a reference quality headphone that exactly shows what’s in the recording these headphones will do very well.
This is one of these affordable ($ 200.-) headphones that is worth owning if you like a realistic sound and are on a budget and only need/want one headphone.
The frequency plot below shows some driver imbalance.
Otherwise a great looking and neutral frequency response that is ‘flat’ from 10Hz to 18kHz +/-3dB (assuming the measurement rig is accurate in an absolute sense).
The DT250-250 sure sounds the way it measures as well. Very neutral with a just very slightly less refined top end for critical hifi listening.
(http://diyaudioheaven.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/beyerdynamic-dt250-250-lr.png?w=614&h=345)
The CSD of the DT250-250 is quite good and shows no deal breaking resonances above 1.5kHz.
(http://diyaudioheaven.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/csd-beyerdynamic-dt250-250.png?w=614&h=293)
Highly recommended for studio usage and for critical listening at home with a realistic (on better recordings), neutral sound.
An amplifier is certainly recommended as it is rather high impedance.
Negatives are the rather high clamping force (for long term listening) and the ever so slightly less refined upper end treble.
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Looks pretty darn good. Thanks!
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http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,516.0.html
Told you guys they were good :D
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Haha. Finally! Not bad at all.
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Before I set up my measurement rig I did the modding just by ear and had to ask others to measure my headphones. Now, with a rig available, modding is that much easier and more effective.
Frans (Solderdude) had kindly agreed to measure my Beyerdynamic DT 250/250 in Karelian Birch:
(http://diyaudioheaven.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/dt250.png?w=614&h=377)
He commented as follows:
"Tonally closest to my own reference. Very vivid and dynamic sounding. Perfectly balanced sound. Bass is on the lean side and you hear it ‘drawing’ to the left. Not as refined sounding as the orthos and my own reference but somewhat more ‘forward’ with some slight graininess to it. Tight bass, toms and ‘clatter’ are very present which makes it open and vivid sounding I guess. Extends to both ends of the spectrum. This helps in making a headphone sound realistic, and that’s what it does. Not suited for bass heads.
The right channel is having slightly too little lows, the left channel somewhat too much. This may be due to too much damping on the right side or could be a driver issue. The frequency range itself is quite impressive and extends to both sides of the spectrum."
This is how things are now: I have turned them into open headphones, using HFM Focus pads that I had to mod a little to be able to use them without the HFM mounting construction. I tried to get the channel imbalance under better control while achievin as neutral a FR as possible. Both drivers required substantially different damping.
(http://www.ginrim.at/content/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/dt250.jpg)
And this is how they measure now:
(http://www.ginrim.at/content/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/overlay4.jpg)
(http://www.ginrim.at/content/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/left4.jpg)
(http://www.ginrim.at/content/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/right5.jpg)
(http://www.ginrim.at/content/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/left_csd2.jpg)
(http://www.ginrim.at/content/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/right_csd2.jpg)
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That is very impressive :)p4
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Wow, I'd love to hear those!
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Very nice!, are those measured with ear-mounted microphones?
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No, I have built myself a measurement rig very much like Solderdude's. The mic is mounted in/on a flat, non-reflective coupler. That way I do not have to fiddle around with inserting/removing the mic all the time. I mount the headphones on the rig, measure it without mods, try different approaches and instantly see what they are doing to the FR.
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Right now I am listening some Pantera. Before I listened to Iron Maiden. For me the DT250-250 adds a more warmth, low end and a more closed sound compared to the open K500.
With Iron Maiden I prefer the K500. With more modern, thus post 1990 music I find the DT250 more suitable. Despite that the DT250-250 is like Don described. A great all-round headphone that sounds just right and balanced enough.
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Why does the treble from 5-10KHz look so different between the measurement here and the one on Innerfidelity? http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT250250.pdf
Is it because of different compensation, or different measurement apparatus or something else?
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Both, Tyll uses a calibrated HATS apparatus plus his own compensation curve, Stratocaster and Solderdude use a damped solid-plate coupler with a calibrated microphone, no ear canal or pinna. Treble response should not be taken for granted, though, higher frequencies interact a lot with the surrounding materials creating uneven-looking graphs.
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Does these headphones worth around 100$, but for 80ohms variant?
I've seen that many say that DT250-80 is not that good compared with DT250-250, but is that of a difference?
Thanks! :)
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The 80 ohm that I own are more veiled sounding over the entire sound spectrum. But I got those second hand. They're not in the best condition.
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Just got the Schiit GMB in. Been on for a couple of hours now. Using it in the following setup:
Wyrd > GMB > Valhalla 2 > HD800/HD650/DT250
Legitimately enjoying the sound the most with the DT250's right now. Wonderful headphones that offer insane value for money.
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Ah, the Beyer 250s. Part of my headphone journey back in 2005. I enjoyed them quite a bit with a little Cmoy. I wonder how much better they might sound today with a better amp. Funny to look back at my notes comparing to an AT900 and AKG 271S. I actually preferred the AKG with the little cmoy.
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Ah, the Beyer 250s. Part of my headphone journey back in 2005. I enjoyed them quite a bit with a little Cmoy. I wonder how much better they might sound today with a better amp. Funny to look back at my notes comparing to an AT900 and AKG 271S. I actually preferred the AKG with the little cmoy.
My first headphone was a MDR-V6. If my first headphone would have been a DT250-250 in 2009 I would have skipped many sidegrades. The DT250-250 does so many things well it is difficult to not like and not enjoy it.
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If only this headphone had actual quality control and decent driver matching. I went through five of them. All had bass issues and strange channel imbalances in the mids. It's just not worth it despite being among the best voiced Beyers. Beyerdynamic's driver matching is godawful and they have plastic injection molding problems they haven't fixed for 20 years. The best DT 250 250 I received had lower mids and male voices all coming from the right with only a slight bass rattle. If you like the DT 250 and have any QC issues, return it, buy an HD 580/600/650 and do something else for closed cans.
Beyerdynamic have been pulling this poo for decades. Don't reward them with currency.
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I'd say from the GMB + Valhalla 2, the DT250's hold their own against the HD650's.
HD650's have a larger soundstage, more precise imaging and greater resolution, but don't do particularly well in the bass region. DT250's have a more intimate soundstage with tighter bass, giving it a more focused, punchier sound.
The slight treble roll off on the DT250's combined with the realism of the GMB and the high resolution tube sound of the Val2 makes a fucking amazingly musical combo with all types of recordings.
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The slight treble roll off on the DT250...
Wat. There's no roll-off on my pair, there's even a peak on the high treble which gives cymbals a certain zing. I agree on the musicality thing, though.
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I do wonder if its a driver matching problem as all DT250's seem to be doing the same thing.
There is a large PCB inside one of the cups (for the mic. acc.) which may account for the differences between L and R in the bass and lower mids area.
Perhaps spoony could remove it and listen again ?
Tonally they (I heard and measured spoony's DT250 when it was still DF's) are correct to me.
My only gripes are clamping force and the refinement of the treble.
One has to include the price range it is in (quite low), and the fact that it isn't (marketted) as a hifi phone but intended for monitoring not critical listening.
They have other headphones for that :)p13
It didn't seem rolled away anywhere to me.
Didn't listen to it for a long time though, perhaps other issues may have creeped up on me.
never bought one myself though.
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They have other headphones for that :)p13
You mean Tesla driver/series and DT48 headphones? I stay away from Beyerdynamic weirdness. Only the DT480 was worth having.
Seriously, of the weird Beyerdynamics I had the DT480 was the good one.
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My DT-150 improved when i did a dual entry direct wire mod. I seem to recall reading a response from beyer tech support that a problem with the balance on the 250 was due to a shitty cable in the headband. So who knows might be worth a shot doing it on the 250...
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I do wonder if its a driver matching problem as all DT250's seem to be doing the same thing.
There is a large PCB inside one of the cups (for the mic. acc.) which may account for the differences between L and R in the bass and lower mids area.
Perhaps spoony could remove it and listen again ?
Tonally they (I heard and measured spoony's DT250 when it was still DF's) are correct to me.
My only gripes are clamping force and the refinement of the treble.
One has to include the price range it is in (quite low), and the fact that it isn't (marketted) as a hifi phone but intended for monitoring not critical listening.
They have other headphones for that :)p13
It didn't seem rolled away anywhere to me.
Didn't listen to it for a long time though, perhaps other issues may have creeped up on me.
never bought one myself though.
Beyerdynamic said in the DT 250 250 head fi thread full of QC and channel imbalance complaints that it was their plastic injection molding and that they fixed it. Of course they didn't as the issues continued tens of thousands of serial numbers after they fixed it. I personally think everything is just adding up to a seriously wonky and poorly designed headphone: the PCB and cable entry preventing good sealing (the M40x and M50x have this same problem), the plastic injection problem, the lack of driver matching, and Beyerdynamic's legendarily poor QC. That with it's rattly bass and fucked up imaging, this cheap monitoring can still sounds tonally better than Beyerdynamic's audiophile and professional headphones, my response is the same as yours.
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:)p13
I had to return my first pair of DT250-250's because the left driver would work intermittently. My current ones sound excellent to me, though.