CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Speakers => Topic started by: RexAeterna on February 09, 2015, 11:21:41 AM
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I was looking around for some pa speakers to give a try for another set up or if they were nice enough probably keep them in my main system.
While looking around I remembered that my friend that I usually work with when hooking me up with nice gear for cheap or for a trade had pair of huge altec lansing 1204b VOTT speakers that he worked on completely. The cabs are bit rough but not bad really. Has original which I believe big metal 511c VOTT horns with I believe are the 808 drivers and he replaced the original woofers with some nice(better) altec lansing 921-8a 16" woofers which looks and feels heavy duty with it's stiffness and nice cloth composent materials. He completely recapped the crossovers too.
I don't much on these guys but knew they were designed for professional studios, broadcasting, concerts, and theatres but other then that nothing much on their background.
I remember seeing them before at his place but completely forgot how huge these speakers are till I had to load them up in the suv and got them home. These things make my technics sb7000a look tiny in size comparison. The 1204b do weigh bout 120lb each but I didn't find the weight too bad since im use to hauling heavy stuff.
As far as sound from these monsters they perform better then I thought. I was bit concern at first bout the "cleaness" of their midrange and spectrum at the extreme end extension but they sound pleasent and are really nice sounding. Of course I can tell they do roll off in the above air registers above 15khz but it's such a gentle roll off I barely notice it much enough to bother me really. I actually like it. The bass response from those 16" woofers are good too I think. Didn't find them lacking much in extension with certain music and movies.
They do sound clean though. And the horn dispersion is very wide. I took big notice when watching a movie.
When I audition them at my friends he was using a nice 55yr old 15w fisher tube amp he completely worked on to drive them I thought the combo sounded outstanding. He told me if I was looking for tube gear he would hook me up for cheap since im good friend and doesn't care about making top dollar/profit. I just told him I might consider it once he's done recapping it and working on it.
Anyhoo at home I have them hooked up being driven by a big Crown CE2000 power amp and using my numark dm1200 mixer as a preamp and think they sound great. Im actually gonna keep these giant montrousities and touch the cabs up a bit a might refinish the wood up so they'll look brand new.
I also saw a pair of massive jbl's he picked up from a theater getting rid of them but that's another story.
Anyhoo, even though these guys look industrial and out of place (I actually like the look of them) they do sound great and lot better then expected. These are keepers for me. Will post couple pics later on when I get around to it but using a phone is a pain (I hate touchscreens sooooo much).
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Pics? When you make a claim about huge speakers you should show them :P
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Some crappy pics here I took real quick. Right now trying to work on the mouth of the horns with some ideas on damping schemes. Just been playing with 1/4" open cell foam so far as of just ideas.
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Holy cheese, that's a hernia waiting to happen. I picked up some Yorkville U15's recently for a dance studio, which at 90lbs/each was a bit of a struggle getting them up onto stands.
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Holy cheese, that's a hernia waiting to happen. I picked up some Yorkville U15's recently for a dance studio, which at 90lbs/each was a bit of a struggle getting them up onto stands.
Yea these things are heavy. Had friend help me when I loaded them. Had fun carrying them up a flight of steps.
I think these sound really nice. Might not be pretty looking speakers but sound really beautiful. I got these for fraction of what working horns go for usually on ebay. I might not have luck coming across amazing finds but some how he does and he travels for some stuff. He wants to hook me up with some tube stuff once he finishes them but I told him ill see. I liked the fisher he had running these big altecs before he sold them to me. Was gonna give me choice of big jbl's too he picked up from a local theatre but I choose the big altecs. Always wanted a pair of big altec VOTT speakers but were always way out my price range people asking thousands for them.
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I tried some open cell foam in the mouth of the horns out of curiosity and it actually made them sound muffled and cut the top end completely. So im leaving them a lone as is for now. I know the bigger 800 something multicellular horn used some type of tar on the mouth of the horns but have no idea what type of tar and if it's easily removable.
Later today im going to home dept and Michael's to pick up some fiberglass and pillow stuffing cause im gonna redo the the inside of the cabs. Then later on after that I'll touch up the cabs. Want to make these close to brand new or atleast bit nicer since the cabs are bit beat up.
Story is, my friend found these altecs from some band that was using them and they weren't advertised correctly so got them for cheap then he decided to replace the woofers and redo the crossovers. He was selling them for 800 but for me he gave them to me for what he paid for. He was gonna ask if I wanted the massive jbl's too since he got thoes cheap from a theater that he was selling for 900 but was gonna give me for what he paid for but of course I chose the altecs. Told me im the only young guy he knows who is into this hobby and can appreciate big ugly speakers. I told him it's all about the music, nothing else.
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I like to update some thoughts and took couple pics. Been busy finishing acoustics with my room besides the speakers. The 511c horns were already dampened with rubber on the welds and well bolted into cab. I actually never found them harsh at all in first place really. Was actually surprised how smooth their high end sounds. Anyhoo, they already were padded inside with some yellow fiberglass but I decided anyways to add some fiberglass along back of the cab and just stuffed top around the horn and bottom of cab with some polyfill.
I actually sat down past week listening to the things and still think they sound phenomenal. Never heard any harshness, sizzle or shoutyness that is associated with horns. Altec designed these horns very well.
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ooooooh. Very nice. I need to get off my ass and put my Altec 511 horns / x-over together. I want to integrate the horns with OB woofers on the bottom end.
Yeah - don't shove crap like foam in the horns. The tar and rubber stuff is to prevent the metal horns from vibrating.
Also, can you look in the back and tell what compression drivers are used?
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(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2118.0;attach=8780;image)
Frog damping mod FTMFW!
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ooooooh. Very nice. I need to get off my ass and put my Altec 511 horns / x-over together. I want to integrate the horns with OB woofers on the bottom end.
Yeah - don't shove crap like foam in the horns. The tar and rubber stuff is to prevent the metal horns from vibrating.
Also, can you look in the back and tell what compression drivers are used?
They use 808-8b drivers.
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Frog damping mod FTMFW!
What can I say, my g/f likes frogs for some reason. She even doesn't mind abd likes the looks of the big altecs.
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ooooooh. Very nice. I need to get off my ass and put my Altec 511 horns / x-over together. I want to integrate the horns with OB woofers on the bottom end.
Yeah - don't shove crap like foam in the horns. The tar and rubber stuff is to prevent the metal horns from vibrating.
Also, can you look in the back and tell what compression drivers are used?
Just quoting again. Anyhoo, yea. Mine uses the 808-8b compression drivers that supposedly improved version of earlier 808's due to some caps and phase plugs added for much greater power handling and excursions. It's really up for debate though cause how lot of altec fans are. Some argue that the the 808-8b is not as nice in sound as original for hi-fi use even though the older 808's lack extension above 10khz while others say the newer symbotik (whatever it's called) 808-8b is just as nice with no difference but has much greater extension past 20khz. Some say it's more due to crossover limitations then driver limitations. I don't know. I just know I really love and still surprise how ultra smooth the top end is on these things. I had little prejudice against horns cause experience with klipsch speakers in the past burnning my ears. The altecs has eliminated my phobia of horns.
My crossover I believe set kinda high for the 511c horns and 808-8b drivers since they use recapped 904-8A crossovers. The crossover point I believe is 1500hz instead of the recommended 500hz (from altec documents, ads, ect.) And 800hz (from altec fans). So far I think it works out great at it's current crossover point. Midrange sounds super clean and smooth.
The 921-8A woofers he put in supposedly were updated and improved version of the 421 woofers that was used for organs and pa use. The 921-8A was designed for the home version of the VOTT models (a7, a9, ect.) besides sound reinforcement and studio use.
I like them though and whatever my friend did to them made them sound great. I haven't done a side by side comparison with my technics sb7000a and the modified altec 1204b yet since I only had the altecs for bit less then a week and been kinda busy. Will try later on maybe out of curiosity and see how they compare.
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I was listening to this earlier,
Asterisms - I'll never let you down
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ioOSPgiGa-U (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ioOSPgiGa-U)
and to my surprise g/f noticed something and pointed it out to me. She told me "it sounds different. Bit different to the technics."
I asked how. Also asked is It bad or good way. She said "the tone is differnt. Like sounds like actual voices and can hear more."
Then I decided to swap the altecs for the technics via quick speakon plugins on my crown ce2000. To me they sound similar in response but as my g/f mentioned to me that the altecs sounded more clear and information coming out of them was more separated. Low end had bit deeper impact too.
I was actually surprised myself but to be bit fair the technics hasn't been recapped yet and altecs has. But overall me and my g/f thought they sounded very similar to each other but told me "I cant see how those big ugly horn thingies can sound more real and have more voices coming out" lol.
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As long as she couldn't hear that difference from the kitchen it's all good :)p15 .
I don't know about these big, old speakers, but I know a couple of people that do. People that fly around dead movie theatres like vultures. What I've heard at their houses has been absolutely amazing.
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Even though they're capable filling out a nice size auditorium and have an amp capable filling out a pretty nice vanue I don't listen to my music very loud really. So no worries there.
Must be different where you're at cause Even for movie watching you'll be lucky to find good amount of people that still go to theaters at all. Most people rather wait till it comes on Netflix or something I know. I never even thought of asking old theaters for audio gear till my friend told me he picked up the large sought after JBL 4648's from a theater for dirt cheap. The large altecs I have came from a local band that my friend grabbed and worked on.
I might start asking theaters and churches but, im happy with the large altecs and my technics sb7000a speakers. I seriously don't need anymore crap cause I have no where to put it except dining area downstairs. I still have get rid of some big heavy guitar amps that I was given in the past by a friend. Might ask my brother to take them since he plays electric instruments (I only like acoustic instruments mostly. Lot of electric guitars sound terrible to me..im kinda picky[same way with lot of acoustic stuff too] ).
Anyhoo, yea I played with them some more last night compared to my technics sb7000a and still find them more similar than different too much. I just think the big altecs might have slight better upper air dispersion to the reason why they give off extra clarity. The bigger 1204b cab and 16" high sensitive/high power handling 921-8A woofers(101db@1w with max continues input of 200w) probably why they give a deeper rumble/vibration so give more then adequate low end extension for movies and games. My friend who worked on them thought they were bit bass light but I think limitations lied in the tube amp he used. Big stiff woofers like those needs ton of current reserves to push some air.
But, yea, I really enjoy these big heavy industrial looking speakers. Can see why altec lansing had huge fellowing. I just thought it was just old people being....well...old.
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The guys who I know who do the vintage stuff are not old. There are many youngsters thinking that old gear has to be good, but the guys whose systems I saw are more mature than that. They just want good sound :)
It seems that you have had great adventures with audio kit ...and they are far from over: May you have many decades more, and much musical pleasure. :money:
I really enjoy these big heavy industrial looking speakers
I think I might too, if I had the space. Some DIY get-up-and-go is very handy in this area too.
Yes, Cinema is still huge in this country. I've never been much of a cinema goer.
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By old I meant like old people reminiscencing or something so due to their age their hearing went through a lot so I always took there praise of them neutral and was remaining agnostic and so forth. Lot of people that I know that know bout altec lansing are dudes in there late 50's to 60's. I know there is young people too but around here not much.
I owened lot of vintage stuff of course. Some good, some bad.
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By old I meant like old people reminiscencing or something so due to their age their hearing went through a lot so I always took there praise of them neutral and was remaining agnostic and so forth. Lot of people that I know that know bout altec lansing are dudes in there late 50's to 60's. I know there is young people too but around here not much.
hello,
being in that demographic, you are right.
and look how far they have fallen:
http://www.alteclansing.com/
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Indeed. I was only born in the 1950s, but still, having only got into hifi later in life, associated the name with that stuff, rather than the very serious speakers they used to make. I think the problem is in the "they..." It isn't "they" any longer, but just a trade mark that has been passed on and on?
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I forgot when but, at some point the vice president engineer of altec lansing left and discovered jbl. Altec was still around but made a mess up in the design of 605 speakers for studios and by that time jbl flooded the consumer and professional market so altec lansing eventually went bankrupt and was bought out by some type of computer company.
Altec lansing at the time of there prime was known to primary cater in designing for studios and other professional applications and never designed much for home use. Yea valanicas, Santiagos, ect came out eventually but was over shadowed by by jbl and other companies. The altec 17,19's, ect. Were basically pro speakers marketed for home use besides sound reinforcement but of course the name faded quickly.
I knew of the name cause my grandfather was electrician/radio specialist for the military so my dad told bout crazy stuff our grandfather use to play with. Only reason I knew of them and when started getting back into music I remembered that name but never found much and when I did they went for 1000's of dollars and still do. I just got lucky I guess knowing the right guy at the right time.
Altec lansing made really great power amps and mixers too. They might be designed for professional sound reinforcement but they can sound super clean and put to shame a lot of marketed labeled audiophile amps. They're one of the few pro companies at time that provided data for their phase response, fr measurements, output impedance, im measurement, tim measurement, ect.
Lot of amps don't do that. Only other company I know that did same at the time was crown and eventually overshadowed and dominated professional sound reinforcement/studio market. Altec lansing use make tons of very respectable equipment but eventually faded and became nothing but rememince. That's as far as I know....
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History with added personal touch. Nice. Thanks for that!
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hello,
you get old like me and misplace your bookmarks facepalm :
http://www.audioheritage.org/intro.htm
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Good grief, I never knew what "JBL" stood for! p:8
Neither did I know, until recently, that Garrard the TT people and Garrard the London jewellers share the same roots.
Well, I never was much of a historian. Never to late to learn :)
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I had my big altecs for about month now. Only thing I did to them was restuffed the cabs in them. I just realigned fiberglass along the walls/backside and stuffed rest with a lot of premium fiberfill. Cabs are so big I used like 8lbs per speaker of polyfill in order to fill them lol.
I also managed to find extra cinder blocks to use as speaker stands to get them off the floor and more ear level. It actually was pretty easy lifting them to get them on the cinder blocks spite them being around 145lbs each.
They do sound really great and really like how they sound and is good all around speaker. Those old altec woofers too are something else cause they do easily reach as low as they're spec'ed and cleanly too. Ran some organ content on them and you are able to feel the rumble.
I don't hear any horn coloration on what some things I read and definitely no honkiness or anything. But, probably cause my 511c horns are already fully dampened and bolted in the cabs. I know the earlier 511/811 horns weren't dampened and had ringing issues and people would use liquid rubber and spray them or use plumber putty and place them on top and bottom of the mouth of the horn.
Even though I really like how these sound I been curious on how the other altec lansing drivers sound. Only read that the only other good woofer altec designed were the 518's but when come to horns and compression drivers lot seem to prefer the 511 horns w/ either 802d/g or 808-8b drivers over the 811 horns. The 808-8 is supposedly is very similar as 802 or something and only difference is some piece of felt between the loading caps. I don't know and I am not taking apart my 511c/808-8b to find out either. I would buy a pair of 802 drivers to try or as back ups but people are frinkin' nuts on ebay with asking prices and people bidding so they're outrageous so, im not bothering with trying them anytime soon.
Anyhoo, only thing I might try is, is getting an active crossover and activity bi-amp them to see how they end up sounding. Right now though, I think the recapped/reworked 904-8A crossover (pro version of 604-8A. Basically for higher power handling) crossed over at 1200hz been working fine and sound great to me so I might wait awhile on doing that.
Well, these old big ugly (even though I think they look cool) speakers sound really super and still surprise me cause of their age.