CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Main Deck => Discussion for Registered Members Only => Topic started by: Drakkard on June 05, 2015, 04:13:36 PM
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I never saw pictures of LCD disassembled. Recently Snorry - one of our Russian famous modders was asked to mod LCD-3 fazors. I think it might be interesting..
Here is the story in Russian - forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?showtopic=30187&st=0
Does not look good if you ask me... Problems with dimensions and accuracy all around. Reminds me of TDS, heh. He said earlier versions of LCD-2 were better.
There is a lot of pictures that are much self-explanatory, but I can translate it later if anyone interested.
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So it looks like Audeze is etching their circuit into metalized plastic film. What disturbs me is their etching pattern: instead of etching the entire useless area (under the magnet) away, they're simply isolating it from the trace. This is great for them as they don't have to spend much time etching, but they're leaving all that unnecessary mass on the diaphragm. That probably helps to explain their poor treble performance. A product with such a high price tag should have more work put into it...this is pretty bush league. Looks like they don't even bother to wash the chemicals off either. "State of the art" my ass lol
The other major problem is the way they're making contact with the trace. That mechanism is made for failure. The higher the tension/louder the signal, the more stress that contact joint is gonna incur, and it'll eventually break the trace.
Is this a new unit? If it isn't, you can't really put much weight into the small dings on the diaphragm as that could just be due to user environment. That said, a dustcover wouldn't hurt.
The more I see the internals of these modern orthos, the more disappointed I'm becoming. :(
If you talk to the guy, do you think you could ask him to measure the spacer thickness? Just something I've always been curious about in orthos and can't find any info on.
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Well, that killed any lingering desire to buy the LCD-3.
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Are we sure those are legit LCD-3? I only ask because the diaphragm looks almost too shitty. Didn't Tyll take LCD apart at some point? I looked for photos, and saw a hifi-man diaphragm on IF, but I thought he did the same with an LCD, no? I am not apologizing for Audeze, I did NOT like the LCD-3 when I briefly owned it.
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forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?showtopic=30187&st=0
You sure the bright stripes are the tracing, and not the space between the tracing? It looks like he is shining light through the membrane, so only areas without conductive tracing are brightened.
Edit nvm I see what you mean, a lot of waasted space
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forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?showtopic=30187&st=0
Tyll posted pics of the old pre-fazor LCDs. The ones we have universally said sound better around here. When they function as intended that is.
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Where would that be? He tore apart an HE-6 to the driver for the Audeze review, but left the LCDs mostly whole.
One of the things they brought up was the change in damping material, from foam and felt layers (was this just the early version 3?) to a papery damping behind the driver. It looks the same as the rear of the LCD-X and Fazored LCD-2.
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Is this a new unit? If it isn't, you can't really put much weight into the small dings on the diaphragm as that could just be due to user environment. That said, a dustcover wouldn't hurt.
Not exactly sure what you mean, but if you are referring to the pictures where some junk is marked on the diaphragm - its not outside, it is between the layers. So it got there at the factory..
Important note - as you can see on the last photos - it is almost impossible to disassemble without damaging the diaphragm. Seems it was made intentionally, as Snorry said there wasnt such problems with LCD-2
There is also some viscous substance on the diaphragm. That makes repairing almost impossible - you cant solder to it.
If you talk to the guy, do you think you could ask him to measure the spacer thickness? Just something I've always been curious about in orthos and can't find any info on.
Sure, I can ask. On our model its 1mm now, I think. We also tried 0.5 and 1.5 - not much of a difference, besides sensitivity.
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Are we sure those are legit LCD-3?
Is there any fake LCD-s around? I never heard of fake planars.. Never saw any other detailed LCD driver photos before as well, so dunno.
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Tyll posted pics of the old pre-fazor LCDs. The ones we have universally said sound better around here. When they function as intended that is.
Maybe I'll let Bill-p have a go at my LCD-2r2's. Better than having them Fazored. Rather have a C grade original than an F grade Fazor.
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Where would that be? He tore apart an HE-6 to the driver for the Audeze review, but left the LCDs mostly whole.
One of the things they brought up was the change in damping material, from foam and felt layers (was this just the early version 3?) to a papery damping behind the driver. It looks the same as the rear of the LCD-X and Fazored LCD-2.
Aug 2012
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/spectacularly-yummy-audeze-lcd-2-and-lcd-3
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I am sure mine look more like Tyll's pictures. Mine are olderolder thoughthough. The earlier LCD1 has an amazing looking diaphragm..dB
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Those are HFM drivers in Tyll's photos. This is the first time I've seen the Audeze drivers.
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Page 2 - the drivers are still in the enclosures but you can see the trace pattern is not the same as the LCD on the Russian forum. (at least it looks this way to me)
(http://cdn.innerfidelity.com/images/Audeze_LCD2LCD3_Photo_inside.jpg)
vs
(http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?s=b608da038a2df511ce55cd673bbc9dd6&app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=86283)
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Page 2 - the drivers are still in the enclosures but you can see the trace pattern is not the same as the LCD on the Russian forum. (at least it looks this way to me)
(http://cdn.innerfidelity.com/images/Audeze_LCD2LCD3_Photo_inside.jpg)
vs
(http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?s=b608da038a2df511ce55cd673bbc9dd6&app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=86283)
Looks to me as though Audeze completely revamped the innards of the LCD3 to incorporate the fazor; also looks like a thick earpad-mounting baffle, maybe to create more distance between the outer ear and the fazor ridge?
I seriously doubt someone would invest so much to make fake, functional Audeze LCD3s, they might as well just create their own headphone line at that point.
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Page 2 - the drivers are still in the enclosures but you can see the trace pattern is not the same as the LCD on the Russian forum. (at least it looks this way to me)
I cant see trace patterns in enclosed one. need to find my glasses ....
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also looks like a thick earpad-mounting baffle, maybe to create more distance between the outer ear and the fazor ridge?
Its Snorry's addition to help speed modding process. Earpads still glued in stock.
(http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?s=e99cd86c852698ae108c866958b81590&app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=86279)
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Maybe I'll let Bill-p have a go at my LCD-2r2's. Better than having them Fazored. Rather have a C grade original than an F grade Fazor.
I suddenly feel like I should charge you like... $1100 for the work. :&
Haha, just kidding. But wow... the fazor model looks worse (literally) than I thought. Harsh highs even with that FR?
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I suddenly feel like I should charge you like... $1100 for the work. :&
Haha, just kidding. But wow... the fazor model looks worse (literally) than I thought. Harsh highs even with that FR?
Haha. What happened to the free offer. :) :) Yeah more than shocking to see inside a mega buck headphone. Seems they should have worked out the production problems with the original. But good sound doesn't seem to be their main goal anymore. Profits are top priority now. They got too big too fast. Sad, but not unusual story anymore.
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Now I'll have to market my non-Fazor rosewood LCD-2 like from "back when Audeze was still good".
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English for those of us who aren't communists:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/770678/instructive-and-sad-story-about-lcd-3-modification-attempt
I must say... after working with LCD-2, I find this... not so surprising. The old LCD-2 is easier to deal with and seemingly more durable than this, though.
Wonder how Audeze will respond to this... but of course, that post has not been front-paged yet for some reason or another.
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Now I'll have to market my non-Fazor rosewood LCD-2 like from "back when Audeze was still good".
Why not. That's what we do with the PWD.
So it looks like our ears have been confirmed they are using the new driver material for the LCD2/3. Essentially changed to lower costs as the drivers are designed to be tossed likely due to all the uber LCD3 membranes that died or were dying. No wonder they all sound like LCDXs now. Not as clear, not as resolving or articulate.
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The earlier LCD1 has an amazing looking diaphragm..dB
Btw, any pictures of it? =) I'm curious how LCD-1 driver looked like
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If you talk to the guy, do you think you could ask him to measure the spacer thickness? Just something I've always been curious about in orthos and can't find any info on.
Less than 1mm. Like 0.5-07mm
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@Drakkard : are you still affiliated to Fischer-Audio and Kennerton ? are You Vassily Berillo ? popcorn
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@Drakkard : are you still affiliated to Fischer-Audio and Kennerton ? are You Vassily Berillo ? popcorn
Yes, still affilated. I'm Nikita. Vassily handles sales in Russia mainly, I'm product manager)
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Thanks for explanations;)
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Yes, a huge difference in fq and questionable QA.
http://ko.goldenears.net/board/4418338
Rather depressing, really.
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What a fucking joke. I've always sensed channel imbalance with my LCDs but always thought it was my mind/hearing loss...
Already replaced my drivers once due to failure. Plug is now falling out of cup on one side so second RMA soon.... Fucking joke.