CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Non-Audio Stuff => The Geek Cave: Home Theatre, Computers, and More! => Topic started by: thegunner100 on May 07, 2014, 03:17:06 AM
-
Stemmed from the discussion from the shoutbox.
Just wtf is up with Logitech's new mice (g400, g400s, g500, g500s, etc)?
Their QC has gone to poo with the latest generations.
After my G5v2's scrollwheel died from 8 years of service, I've been using my trusty Logitech M310 wireless mouse. It's been going good for about a year now. Excellent battery life, consistent clicks and scrolls, and decent feet. It is compact, but quite ergonomic.
My birthday was a few days ago and my room mate got me a Logitech G500S. Now I was pretty excited to use it but after an hour, my index finger started cramping from the scroll wheel! The scroll wheel is raised quite a bit higher than on the g5v2 and the g400/s. It is also quite loose feeling, and I absolutely hate the hyper scrolling.
A friend of mine had the g500 but after some time he had the double clicking problem and eventually replaced it with a used g5v2. He has been using it for a year with no problems.
Now... he got me the G400S instead yesterday. Now the scrollwheel is more of what I'm used to, although a bit on the stiffer side. However, the left click was so inconsistent with the right! It's stiffer, louder, and vibrates the whole damn mouse. Wtf is up with that?! I'm returning both the G500S and G400S and buying a refurb g5v2 off of ebay instead.
My room mate actually has the G400 right now and though the clicks and scrollwheel seem to be fine, his side button is mushy. Another friend of mine has the g400 for about at least a year, and he has been experiencing the double click problem ocassionally. It's only time before it completely dies.
So, what's up with Logitech's QC on their last two generations of mice? Is it because they're using a cheaper material for their mice, or that their QC section lacks competance? walk the plank
What mouse and keyboard do you guys use, and what do you guys think of Logitech's new mice and QC problems?
Below are some pics that I took back when I was into the whole keyboard hobby.
1. Logitech G5v2
2. Realforce 87u 55g "Sakura", stock PBT white & pink keys w/ white case. Also a Pink ClickClack Skull (not shown in this pic) - My current favorite keyboard and the one I use at school.
3. Realforce 87u 45g, stock PBT white keys w/ black case - Second favorite, used at home.
4. CM Quickfire Rapid MX Blue, red painted case, imsto red dye-subbed PBT keys
5. CM QUickfire Rapid MX Blue, Engraved white PBT keys
-
I am currently using a Thermaltake Level 10 m Mouse:
(http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/26-254-095-TS?$S300$)
(http://static.scan.co.uk/images/products/1956348-b.jpg)
(http://static.scan.co.uk/images/products/1956348-c.jpg)
Also just using a Logitech Illuminated Keyboard as I use my Nostromo N52 TE for gaming (shown Below Keyboard)
(http://blog.duber.cz/wp-content/uploads/logitech_illuminated_02.png)
(http://geizhals.at/p/2664/942664/942664-2.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSL2qBbao0rMW4ZlyUqC3adsb9hNOSaUKxwOCjXm6inf-6zQAki5g)
(http://bluezone-kr.com/JM/Logitech%20K740%20(12).jpg)
Nostromo N52 TE I use for Gaming:
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/10/belkin-n52te.jpg)
(http://www.2dayblog.com/images/2010/november/550x-razer-nostromo-2.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTfP8a-ry-JurKg9xpmiI_31OQQYeY-OAviB-Tb6netkZYTAlYoBw)
New Mouse from Logitech I REALLY want:
(http://media.bestofmicro.com/logitech-g502-mouse-proteus-core,A-D-430645-22.jpg)
(http://www.gra.pl/sites/gra/files/imagecache/600-wide/images/wwwgrapl/3/log_1_1.jpg?n3pui5)
(http://www.wovow.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/gaming-mouse-logitech-g502-proteus-core-design-sensor-wovow.org-02.jpg)
(http://onegadget.ru/images/2014/04/logitech-g502.jpg)
-
Mechanical keyboard masterrace member here! headbang
I have a Ducky Shine 2 with blue LEDs and Cherry MX Blue switches.
I have to agree with gunner about Logitech's new stuff, just not as good as their old stuff. I'm still using the MX revolution I got in 2008. The Performance MX that replaced it is just stupid since they got rid of the awesome scroll wheel on the side that I use to control my music! And it looks like Logitech tried to clone the entire design of this series for gaming mice with the G700s. I went to a friend's house and used his though and it absolutely feels like shit too. All 10-bajillion buttons feel mushy and crappy, and I don't think the construction of the mouse is as good as they used to be.
Also, I have one of the original G15 keyboards (with blue backlighting) I used for a few years before getting the Ducky on reserve in case this thing breaks again and it takes Ducky another 3 months to repair it.
-
This is what I use. Every single button is customizable, and you can change DPI settings on the fly or re-map those buttons to do something else. It also comes with several different weights which attach to an open cavity in the bottom of the mouse. Really clever stuff. Everything you customize in the software is also saved into memory on the mouse itself, so once you set it how you like it, you can move it to a different computer and it will maintain everything you set previously.
(http://ic.tweakimg.net/ext/i/1226236050.jpg)
(http://gamingweapons.com/image/roccat/kone-mouse-review/roccat-kone-software01.jpg)
-
I'm not as l33t as you guys but I do like the good mouse, the Roccat Kone seems to fit what I would like in a mouse if I get one for gaming.
However, I'm looking for performance wireless mice(hopefully logi again) or some good mice+keyboard combo that will work with just one usb adapter. I went through 2 Logitech Mice, one a performance one till it broke, 2 M310s and now a M510 which frankly just sucks balls in ergonomics. Among those I really like the M310s the most, best fit for my hand.
-
I share similar experience on the Logitech G500. The left click would starts to double clicks randomly is very hard to select or highlight texts at time. The the elevated palm is too uncomfortable for my small hand.
I got this mouse recently and is much better than the Logitech G500.
http://mionix.net/products/avior-7000/ (http://mionix.net/products/avior-7000/)
As far as keyboard I have the Deck Legend linear tactile with Cherry MX Black switches and a DAS Professional edition Cherry MX Blue switches.
-
Apple keyboard and magic mouse for me! headbang
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-V-B7Wi3KMsg/TanVdCk8-eI/AAAAAAAAAHE/Dl33X9BDZjM/s1600/Apple+Magic+Mouse+Aluminium+Keyboard.jpg)
I'm building another gaming computer for son #2 and grabbed the Logitech G710 mechanical for the build. I haven't received it yet, but hoping it doesn't have some of the same QC issues you guys mentioned about their mice!
(http://gaming.logitech.com/assets/47814/g710-gaming-keyboard-images.png)
-
I had a gaming mouse once. Not that I use it to game much, but I just want more laziness when browsing. That way I can always have one hand free.
RSI made it not work though. Now on Logitech's M570 trackball. I kind of dislike thumb trackball though.
-
I am currently using a Thermaltake Level 10 m Mouse:
Damn.. you like complex mice haha.
Mechanical keyboard masterrace member here! headbang
I have a Ducky Shine 2 with blue LEDs and Cherry MX Blue switches.
I have to agree with gunner about Logitech's new stuff, just not as good as their old stuff. I'm still using the MX revolution I got in 2008. The Performance MX that replaced it is just stupid since they got rid of the awesome scroll wheel on the side that I use to control my music! And it looks like Logitech tried to clone the entire design of this series for gaming mice with the G700s. I went to a friend's house and used his though and it absolutely feels like sh1t too. All 10-bajillion buttons feel mushy and crappy, and I don't think the construction of the mouse is as good as they used to be.
Also, I have one of the original G15 keyboards (with blue backlighting) I used for a few years before getting the Ducky on reserve in case this thing breaks again and it takes Ducky another 3 months to repair it.
If I wasn't in love with topre, I'd be using my mx blue quickfires. I used to have a G15 for a couple of years as well, as well as a g15v2 before I switched toa mech keyboard. I used to have a logitech g7 back a while ago, the one with the battery charger and all. Worked well til the batteries started to lose their charge a lot faster.
This is what I use. Every single button is customizable, and you can change DPI settings on the fly or re-map those buttons to do something else. It also comes with several different weights which attach to an open cavity in the bottom of the mouse. Really clever stuff. Everything you customize in the software is also saved into memory on the mouse itself, so once you set it how you like it, you can move it to a different computer and it will maintain everything you set previously.
My friend actually has that and likes it very well.
I'm not as l33t as you guys but I do like the good mouse, the Roccat Kone seems to fit what I would like in a mouse if I get one for gaming.
However, I'm looking for performance wireless mice(hopefully logi again) or some good mice+keyboard combo that will work with just one usb adapter. I went through 2 Logitech Mice, one a performance one till it broke, 2 M310s and now a M510 which frankly just sucks balls in ergonomics. Among those I really like the M310s the most, best fit for my hand.
The m310 is sweet, isnt it?
-
Ducky Shine 1, Shine 2, and Zero reporting in. I really like my Ducky keyboards.
-
Not sure if it's a QC issue but don't get me started on the G600. If you move the mouse too fast in an game you would be either staring at the sky or at your feet. What a shame too 'cause that mouse was so comfortable. I'm currently using a G400S (basically an MX518) for playing FPS games.
-
Not sure if it's a QC issue but don't get me started on the G600. If you move the mouse too fast in an game you would be either staring at the sky or at your feet. What a shame too 'cause that mouse was so comfortable. I'm currently using a G400S (basically an MX518) for playing FPS games.
can't you change the DPI on the mouse with the logitech software?
-
Not sure if it's a QC issue but don't get me started on the G600. If you move the mouse too fast in an game you would be either staring at the sky or at your feet. What a shame too 'cause that mouse was so comfortable. I'm currently using a G400S (basically an MX518) for playing FPS games.
can't you change the DPI on the mouse with the logitech software?
What I'm describing isn't a sensitivity or DPI issue. Its a tracking issue where the mouse jumps to a downward or upward facing position.
-
I used to play with a logitech G500. Within half a year it was already having the double click problem and at the 1 year mark it became unbearable (couldn't even use it reliably for normal pc use). I switched back to the Microsoft Optical Mouse that I was using before the logitech and never looked back. It's actually undergone heavier abuse now that it's been "in service" for 4 years already. I would say the only problem is that it is a bit too small to fully rest my palm on it so my wrist is usually on the mousepad.
I was always under the impression that logitech stuff were well built or something but after the g500 ordeal I wouldn't want to risk it again. I may have just been unlucky but I do know that the double click problem isn't unique to me.
As for keyboards, use the CM Storm Quickfire TK with brown switches. Blues were too clicky and I didn't like the Reds and Blacks when I tried all switches while Brown hit that sweet spot. I bought the TK version simply because the TK-less wasn't available withou importing which would defeat the point of buying CM since their keyboards were the cheapest available at the time. I really love the keyboard though, and the numpad is useful for some games so it's not so bad.
-
G700s + G710.
My first non-OEM mouse was the Intellimouse Explorer 4 in 2004, which lives to this day. Second were the Razer Diamondback and MX518 -- Razer gave up after about 8 months (sticky or unreliable clicks) and I think the MX518 died after 2 years (left click unreliable). I got a replacement MX518 and that lasted another two years before the same failure.
My G700 lasted for about three years before the double click bug. They upgraded me to the G700s.
My experience with the Diamondback was not positive (felt cheap and tacky compared to any of the Logitech mice I've had), plus their warranty sucks. The Logitech 3-year warranty is just outside of the my typical usable life for a mouse before it wears out, so it doesn't really make sense to go with any other company unless their mice last 4-5 years in a single go.
I think my G700 felt great and I have pretty good expectations for the G700s as it's more resistant to sweat.
-
My preference:
(http://img03.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploaded/i3/T1_MCyXc4vXXcOVrZ__105517.jpg)
Logitech G1. The very first of the Logitech gaming mice series.
One of the top mice for Starcraft brood war progamers in Korea. Certainly not the most ergonomic or high-functionality, but it holds no surprises and is a fantastic beater mouse for hours of gaming.
-
Sweet, just bought myself a nice lightly used g5v2 for $51 on ebay!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271481135152
-
Have you guys considered vertical mouse
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/DiggingTheNewVerticalMouseHelpingMyCarpalTunnel.aspx
dont wait for Carpal Tunnel syndrome.
-
Rocking a G602 and CM Storm Trigger (Cherry Browns). Retired the G500 to work duty, due to the free spin scroll wheel, godsend for large xml or json files. Also tried the G500s a while back, craptastically horrible, with the whiny capacitor and positive accel sensor. G400s was fine, sold it to get the G602. Did prefer the heftier wireless G602 over it.
Also did have G5v2 that had a right click stickiness, no idea what happened to it after several moves between home and school.
-
Have you guys considered vertical mouse
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/DiggingTheNewVerticalMouseHelpingMyCarpalTunnel.aspx
dont wait for Carpal Tunnel syndrome.
I've tried them, but didn't get on with it. I'd prefer a track ball to the vertical.
I run a magic pad and magic mouse side by side on all of my machines so I can swap back and forth. I like them for different applications and it lets me mix it up to keep discomfort away.
-
I've been using the Logitech G600 for over a year now and it's the best mouse I've ever owned. All the available buttons on top of the "G-Shift" ring-finger click which allows for twice as many combos.
I had the Cyborg RAT7 for a while and the forward clicker was dead within a couple months, pathetic.
-
been changing mice way too often since I've been gaming, but currently using a Logitech G100S - with an Artisan Raiden MID mousepad.
I use a fingertip grip, none of my palm is on my mouse, so shape/size is pretty neat on this one. unfortunately for me, the Kana v2 I had before wasn't compatible with the Artisan pad, so I just use the G100s instead. I think a surface is way more important than a lot of people think. certainly is for me.
keyboardwise, I've had a ton of stuff as well, but currently using a KBC Poker with Cherry MX Red. wanted to get a HHKB2 but I do want that ctrl button placement of a normal keyboard.
so, considering the Leopold one with Topre 45g switches with a very similar layout to my KBC Poker. just not sure if/when... do want to try it first. I know 45g switches are great since I've had a topre with 45g, but the rest of the KB needs to be tested too. definitely prefer Topre over Cherry MX. however, browns are my favourite Cherry switch, not sure why I got the Red for my KBC Poker.
I also own 4 IBM Model M that I have stored away somewhere... :P
-
been changing mice way too often since I've been gaming, but currently using a Logitech G100S - with an Artisan Raiden MID mousepad.
I use a fingertip grip, none of my palm is on my mouse, so shape/size is pretty neat on this one. unfortunately for me, the Kana v2 I had before wasn't compatible with the Artisan pad, so I just use the G100s instead. I think a surface is way more important than a lot of people think. certainly is for me.
keyboardwise, I've had a ton of stuff as well, but currently using a KBC Poker with Cherry MX Red. wanted to get a HHKB2 but I do want that ctrl button placement of a normal keyboard.
so, considering the Leopold one with Topre 45g switches with a very similar layout to my KBC Poker. just not sure if/when... do want to try it first. I know 45g switches are great since I've had a topre with 45g, but the rest of the KB needs to be tested too. definitely prefer Topre over Cherry MX. however, browns are my favourite Cherry switch, not sure why I got the Red for my KBC Poker.
I also own 4 IBM Model M that I have stored away somewhere... :P
Realforce 87u 45/55g ftw! I've never had the chance to try a model M but I do have a test switch thingy with it.
-
At home I use the Microsoft Comfort Curve Keyboard 3000. I generally still prefer keys with a bit more travel and slightly harder feedback as I learned to type on old noisy keyboards.
For laptops I simply adore Lenovo's for their great keyboards. Typing on a Thinkpad series just feels right. The big delete button is perfectly placed on my old T410.
-
What I'm describing isn't a sensitivity or DPI issue. Its a tracking issue where the mouse jumps to a downward or upward facing position.
Ah ok I gotcha, I just misunderstood what ya meant, sorry about that!
-
Realforce 87u 45/55g ftw! I've never had the chance to try a model M but I do have a test switch thingy with it.
Topre switch is direct opposite from Model M IMO.
I use Model M from 2008 until now. When i try topre, i just know what "type on cloud of boobs" mean. It was too light for me, or maybe i am just fan of buckling spring. :)p13
-
I use a Cooler Master Storm Spawn. It's cheap, fairly small (though not notebook mouse small), and has two thumb buttons. Which I don't use, because my finger reach is pathetic and programming the buttons is a bit irritating. Unlike say a Logitech gaming mouse (had the G700 briefly), the mouse software doesn't retain bindings for individual games, so you have to re-bind each time you boot up a different one.
Also, no option for free scroll. I like spinning the wheel and going "wheeee!".
-
no love for steelseries? I sold most of my pc gear but still keep my kinzu v2.
on keyboard side just bought the wedge mobile keyboard from microsoft and greatly impressed by its portability and build
-
I`m using a CM Storm Alcor (Plug & Play, no software BS) and a Keycool 84 with Mx Black (can`t recommend them anymore, since Keycool started to use Kailh ( poo ) switches instead of Cherry`s ).
And really if you don`t use your numpad a lot, you should try a compact keyboard, it`s much more comfortable.
I also have a CM Storm Recon but now they`re boxed because I liked the Alcor more.
(http://i57.tinypic.com/71tn9k.jpg)
-
I use razer stuff. Can't say how it compares to most of it's competition but I've been pleased.
Death Adder:
http://www.razerzone.com/store/razer-deathadder
Black Widow:
http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-keyboards-keypads/razer-blackwidow
-
Cooler Master! I've got a Recon in black: http://gaming.coolermaster.com/en/products/mice/recon/
Very compact, perfect for my tiny hands. There were a few issues with configuring software for the lighting, and the scroll wheel squeaks a bit, but otherwise it's a great little mouse. Cheap, too.
I like me a quieter keyboard, so I opted for an understated Rosewill with Brown switches: http://www.rosewill.com/products/1809/ProductDetail_Overview.htm
-
I`m using a CM Storm Alcor (Plug & Play, no software BS) and a Keycool 84 with Mx Black (can`t recommend them anymore, since Keycool started to use Kailh switches instead of Cherry`s poo).
And really if you don`t use your numpad a lot, you should try a compact keyboard, it`s much more comfortable.
I also have a CM Storm Recon but now they`re boxed because I liked the Alcor more.
(http://i57.tinypic.com/71tn9k.jpg)
Could you elaborate more on comparing the Kaihl to the Cherrys?
-
Could you elaborate more on comparing the Kaihl to the Cherrys?
I`ll try :D
Cherry is the original maker of the Mx Switches, Kailh (and some other chinese companies) do copies of them, and there`s no problem with it, since Cherry patent is invalid now, althought the problem is that their Q.C. is really bad, broken switches or switches that doesn`t fell right (like an Mx Brown that feels linear) are common issues with their keyboards. Some few people don`t feel the difference, but I can`t recommend them. (Linear switches usually don`t have a lot o problem in the feedback since they`re really easy to copy, althought tactile...)
The only reason companies use them is that they`re cheaper, BTW, the "new" Razer switches are made by Kailh, yeah they`re using cheaper switches and selling them for the same price as before facepalm
If you`re looking for a keyboard avoid anyone that don`t use Cherry, Topre or Matias switches (There`s a new one made by Omron, which is a super reliable company, althought no one has used it until now)
I guess that`s all, if I forget anything feel free to ask :)p7
-
Gotcha, I thought you were calling the Cherrys poo instead.
-
facepalm :spank:
Yes, now it`s right...
"I`m using a CM Storm Alcor (Plug & Play, no software BS) and a Keycool 84 with Mx Black (can`t recommend them anymore, since Keycool started to use Kailh switches ( poo ) instead of Cherry`s. "
-
Could you elaborate more on comparing the Kaihl to the Cherrys?
The only reason companies use them is that they`re cheaper, BTW, the "new" Razer switches are made by Kailh, yeah they`re using cheaper switches and selling them for the same price as before.
What was Razer using before? My keyboard is several years old and I'm curious what it has.
It doesn't really matter since it feels fine to me. I'm not knowledgeable enough to notice the difference between switches.
Still, I AM curious...
-
What was Razer using before? My keyboard is several years old and I'm curious what it has.
It doesn't really matter since it feels fine to me. I'm not knowledgeable enough to notice the difference between switches.
Still, I AM curious...
On the BlackWidow? Regular ones used Cherry MX Blue, the Stealth Ed used Brown IIRC.
-
Kailh switches are essentially a chinese cherry mx. I have never used kailh myself but I wouldn't expect them to be up to cherrys standards since they are probably quite a bit cheaper hence why some manufacturers made the switch from original cherry mx.
This is my current board. Its a LZ-FE which is custom board from korea with lubed 55g cherry mx blacks headbang headbang. Sorry about the large pic
(http://i60.tinypic.com/beyh5d.jpg)
-
mice mice mice :)p2 :)p6
I used to keep a mouse for years. I don't know if it is something in the tropical polluted air I live in, but I suddenly found Logitech mice (ordinary, optical mouse) lasting maximum six months before the double-click thing started. Having got through three, managed to make a working one by soldering parts from two non-working ones (I can't solder: it was a mess but it worked) and contemplated buying in bulk, I decided to go up market and, for ten times the price, buy a Roccat Kone XTD.
One consideration for anything other than a regular 3-button mouse is Linux, and Roccat, although I can't find many good words about their customer service, do support open-source development of drivers for Linux.
:spank: After one year it starts in with the double-click thing. Hmmm, technically, it's in warranty, but hey...
It made me research the whole double-click phenomena, and I found out that the little Omron switches are not sealed units, and that Deoxit can work wonders. I have Deoxit; I have switches from dead mice to practice on...
By the way, the switches inside the Roccat look exactly the same as the 1/10-price Logitechs.
I opened up my Kone and the left-button switch and Deoxited the contact points --- with good result. I wish I'd known this a long time ago. I need to attend to some of the other switches soon, some, I think, will be what I learned are called tact switches. I think this means tactile, rather than that they try to tell us things nicely. They can't be taken apart, or not in a way which is easy to reassemble. Again, I have practised on components from dead mice.
I don't game (except for Soitaire!) --- but the programmable mouse buttons make for, as someone else said, lazy one-handed browsing, and I would find it hard to go back to an ordinary 3-button mouse.
I'd like something that works by touch, rather than physical switches, but the problem with such advanced products is --- linux.
I've had two or three Logitech keyboard failures over the past years too. I've gone back to an old Compaq keyboard that is so old I can't even remember what machine it came with and when. It doesn't have a "windows" key. It has quite a good touch and it is just ...reliable. It's a bit noisy.
The main message here is don't throw your mice away because of the double-click error. I'm sure many members here have Deoxit on the shelf. Check out the net for howtos and use it.
Oh shit, I just admitted that I play with bits of dead mouse :vomit:
-
I've been using the Logitech MX Revolution for about five years or so. Had the double clicking problem and the culprit was a worn out Omron switch. All it took to get it working was a disassembly and rebending the torsion spring that acts as a conductor as well. Worked as new after then.
-
re-tensioning the spring is the other suggestion on the net. My tension seemed ok, and I was very careful not to displace the spring, as replacing it looked like it would be tough job for imperfect eyes, even though I had an optician make for me what I call "engineering" glasses with which I can do some work with small components.
Even if re-tensioning, I'd go for contact cleaning too.
I'm a recent convert to Deoxit, though, and of course, when one has a can, everything looks like a dirty contact :)p8
-
I can vouch for the Roccat Kone. Get the Military Edition though, as that has the newer ADNS-3310 sensor and doesn't suffer from high liftoff distance problems common to the 3090 sensor. Mind you, a high liftoff distance isn't always a bad thing depending on what aiming style you use, but with the 3310 you can customize liftoff distance anyway. Also, the Kone is a very small mouse, and if you use a palm grip, it's not recommended unless you have small hands. It's really more of a finger grip mouse, you can claw it, but it's not ideal for that too.
I also liked the Mionix Avior 7000, though its implementation of the 3310 sensor didn't seem as good as the Kone's. Supposedly it doesn't run the sensor at the native DPI and it jitters at higher DPI as a result. I don't use high DPI but either way, the Kone's tracking feels better. The Avior is superbly ergonomic though and not just for my weird grip. It seems like a very nice all-around mouse, and ergonomics are always more important than sensor performance.
Keyboard-wise I got a G710+, the rationale being that MX Browns actuate in the middle and should give a faster response than switches that actuate at the bottom. That, and my old vitange keyboard actuated in the middle too. The Logitech isn't bad, the switches feel alright, and having a heavier, more secure base helps in keeping things in place too, but my ancient NEC keyboard from 1997 felt better. Too bad a cup of tea ended that story.
Also, a protip (as if I'm a pro these days in any way shape or form...) if you want the effect of not having a numpad and you play shooters, stop using WASD for movement. Try using something like YGHJ, you'll have more keys around you to bind stuff, and you can have a shorter distance between left/right hands and a more comfortable setup all-around. Though depending on your keyboard, you may run into issues with limitations on the number of simultaneous keypresses, which will necessitate the use of keys like shift for walk/run toggles, etc.
Then, there's Russian style, where you keep the keyboard in your lap, and can position the mousepad wherever you want. I don't use it, as most people that use it tend to either use a higher sensitivity or heavy amounts of acceleration, and need less mousepad space and tend to use all wrist aim anyway. But, if you get it to work it can be a very comfortable setup. A lot of top players play this way. I play with moderate sensitivity and no accel, a mix of arm and wrist aim, and the traditional setup works just fine minus some occasional shoulder pains which are common to FPS players in the first place.
-
Yeah, my keyboards are more expensive than my headphones... walk the plank
(http://i.imgur.com/XXQ6RV2.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/rOj7Gf5.jpg)
Keycool with blacks, Rapid-I with browns and Leopold with blues.
Leopold arrived today, I`m loving it so far. ;D
-
Altrunox,
That combo looks like it belongs on a Hammond XBR. Why would you want this ? Pray educate.
-
I ordered the tenkeyless Leopold with blues since the topre version is so goddam expensive. It will replace my slightly obnoxious original Razer blackwidow ultimate with real deal mx blues.
How do you like the Leopold? I'm apprehensive, its been a while since I was a keyboard dork.
-
Hammond XBR
LOL, I think I need some more to looks like it :)p13
I ordered the tenkeyless Leopold with blues since the topre version is so goddam expensive. It will replace my slightly obnoxious original Razer blackwidow ultimate with real deal mx blues.
How do you like the Leopold? I'm apprehensive, its been a while since I was a keyboard dork.
I'm loving it so far, build quality is great, and OMG PBT keycaps are a huge improvements over the POM from the keycool and the ABS from the Rapid. Sometimes I'm missing the home and end button, but I should get used to it shortcuts in a while. Since you got the 87 version you should have no problem. I guess you'll like it. IMO build quality is much better than the Razer.
Now I need the Poker with clears and PBT keycaps for the other two :))
-
I didn't get the 87 version :( . I ordered the FC660M
-
I didn't get the 87 version :( . I ordered the FC660M
Ops, you said TKL I thought it was the 87 version, IMO even better, I`m almost used to the shortcuts, don`t need to move my hands from the wrist rest, very comfortable.
BTW, get a wrist rest if you don`t have one yet
-
Anyone hear about the new ones they have out (G502 Proteus Core and etc)? I'm looking into a new mouse. My current one (Cyborg RAT-7) has started developing a phantom double-click...
-
Anyone hear about the new ones they have out (G502 Proteus Core and etc)? I'm looking into a new mouse. My current one (Cyborg RAT-7) has started developing a phantom double-click...
Do you use claw or palm grip? I personally really like the Deathadder, but that's a bigger mouse for palm users.
The Logitech mouse has nice custom weights, but is generally more suited for claw grip users.
No problems with build quality with either. Deathadder has been used for over 5 years without any issue.
Hope this helps.
-
Do you use claw or palm grip? I personally really like the Deathadder, but that's a bigger mouse for palm users.
The Logitech mouse has nice custom weights, but is generally more suited for claw grip users.
No problems with build quality with either. Deathadder has been used for over 5 years without any issue.
Hope this helps.
Pretty sure I use claw.. or something close to it. The only part of my palm that touches the mouse is the underside of my middle knuckle. of my hand doesn't even touch the mouse.
My friend is pushing me to get a DeathAdder Black Edition. The RAT used to be his, and he replaced it with the DA Black.
Honestly the only thing keeping me from it right now is wanting a mouse that matches my desktop better visually... I pay more attention to little details like that than I should...
-
I'm looking into a new mouse. My current one (Cyborg RAT-7) has started developing a phantom double-click...
Don't buy a new mouse: buy a can of DeOxit D100 and see my earlier post in the thread (http://I'm looking into a new mouse. My current one (Cyborg RAT-7) has started developing a phantom double-click...). Only a couple of days ago I restored a not-working-at-all Krone button to fully functional.
Keyboards. My wife is complaining about the noise. I wonder... what to replace my ancient Compaq keyboard with? People rave about "mechanical keyboards," but, aren't they even more noisy?
-
Keyboards. My wife is complaining about the noise. I wonder... what to replace my ancient Compaq keyboard with? People rave about "mechanical keyboards," but, aren't they even more noisy?
Basically, yep. How much louder depends on the switches, but even the quietest switches (something like MX Red) with dampers (rubber O Rings) under the caps is still louder than your average keyboard.
I've got a keyboard with MX blues which are very clicky and loud. Feels great to type on and use, not good for others in the room.
-
Don't buy a new mouse: buy a can of DeOxit D100 and see my earlier post in the thread (http://I'm looking into a new mouse. My current one (Cyborg RAT-7) has started developing a phantom double-click...). Only a couple of days ago I restored a not-working-at-all Krone button to fully functional.
Keyboards. My wife is complaining about the noise. I wonder... what to replace my ancient Compaq keyboard with? People rave about "mechanical keyboards," but, aren't they even more noisy?
A linear switch (MX Black, Red) + o-rings would be a nice choice if noise is an issue, for the mechanical route.
-
Thanks both.
I suppose I might get used to the keyboards that are more like a laptop, with little spring pressure and small travel. I have used laptops but only for short periods of time.
I'm not sure that my Compaq isn't "mechanical." It pre-dates "windows" keys, and is so old that I can't remember its origin. It is certainly rather clacky, although perhaps not as much as the old IBM-PC keyboards that I vaguely remember. It has spent long periods of time in cupboards while other keyboards came, broke, and went. It even seems to survive having stuff piled on top of it in those cupboards.
-
Topres are quieter than most mechanical keyboards, especially if you get the silent version.
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards
Comparison video of mx blue and topre:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYsAVQLl8mQ
-
hello,
you can also find recordings of various mechanical keyboards here:
https://geekhack.org/
(caution: this may just be the Changstar for keyboard geeks.)
i have been using one of these for about a decade:
http://pckeyboard.com/page/UKBD/UB40P4A
(loud, but as far as i can tell, unbreakable.)
-
Comparison video of mx blue and topre:
Night and day difference. I thought that the Topre had something of a veiled sound, whereas the mx is obviously very forward in the upper mids and highs. I am sure that the latter would fatigue Mrs G's ears and my fingers!
Of course, watching a Youtube video it is not possible to do any sort of a level-matched test, but I thought that the mx sounded more like my Ancient Compaq. I don't know that, sound-wise, it would be anything of an upgrade for me --- and, if even louder, might even require a change of other equipment such as moving from open- to closed-back 'phones.
Of course, my Ancient Compaq has a PS2 connector. Infinitely preferable to the grainy, digital sound of today's USB interfaces. A cable upgrade helps, but cannot come anywhere near the natural analogue sound of the PS2. This may be more obvious on some systems than others, but those who say that it cannot make a difference will always be those who haven't tried it, so how can they know?
But seriously, thanks for the video (I now know to avoid mechanical) and other links. I never dreamt there could be so much geekdom about keyboards!
:money:
-
I'm about ready to trade my leopold and older black widow ultimate, both MX blues for something quieter like the "silent" topres or the matias. I do more typing at work and I can't use either keyboard in the workplace due to an open layout.
-
Matias Quiet switches are great! Nice feedback and quiet operation. ;D
If you type A LOT I would look at the Ergo Pro -> http://matias.ca/ergopro/pc/
It's expensive, but much cheaper than building an ergoDox.
-
My MX cherry blue switches sounds less clicky as before after a few months of usage. Just curious anyone else share similar experience.
-
Matias Quiet switches are great! Nice feedback and quiet operation. ;D
If you type A LOT I would look at the Ergo Pro -> http://matias.ca/ergopro/pc/
It's expensive, but much cheaper than building an ergoDox.
Thanks: the Quiet model now goes to the top of my list of potentials
-
A WASD with Cherry MX Clears should be on that list too. Easily the best MX switch for typists.
-
Ruled out by the YouTube "listening test."
I don't do that much typing (my wife might beg to differ, but then she says that she doesn't make that many phone calls :)p14 ). It's pretty-much limited to natter-natter-natter on forums these days. I'm quite happy with my Compaq: It is Mrs G that isn't. p:0
-
Just ordered the logitech mx master mouse, looks like the old MX which i liked. currently using the g700s so looking forward to a return to the MX form.
not for gaming, just general use and spreadsheet productivity.
-
Affordable, but decent mechanical keyboard? My Razer Black Widow has a dead key and it's driving me crazy.
Go.
-
Affordable, but decent mechanical keyboard? My Razer Black Widow has a dead key and it's driving me crazy.
Go.
Do you know what kind of switches to you like? Gaming, typing, or both?
I'm partial to bucking springs for typing but gaming wise they're so-so
-
Do you know what kind of switches to you like? Gaming, typing, or both?
I'm partial to bucking springs for typing but gaming wise they're so-so
Nope, I have no idea. I've been happy with the Black Widow, but don't know enough about various switches to have a preference.
If it makes a difference, my PC gaming days are behind me. I haven't touched Starcraft in ages, and I think I can officially give up on a new Age of Empires game ever coming out.
-
Affordable, but decent mechanical keyboard? My Razer Black Widow has a dead key and it's driving me crazy.
Go.
Im gonna assume that your BW is a cherry mx blue. If you like how that feel, the cmstorm quickfire (and its variations) are very reliable and not too expensive. I actually have two of those, and have been using them for years now. They're very nice for typing if that's what you're mostly going to be doing.
-
Nope, I have no idea. I've been happy with the Black Widow, but don't know enough about various switches to have a preference.
If it makes a difference, my PC gaming days are behind me. I haven't touched Starcraft in ages, and I think I can officially give up on a new Age of Empires game ever coming out.
Here's a page explaining some of the major types of switches. (https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/faqs.php?faq=mechanical_switch_difference)
I don't have much experience with other switch types besides messing around with display models at stores and not liking the feel as much, but personally, I like buckling springs because they are the only mechanical switch where the tactile and audible feedback correspond to the exact moment the switch actuates. I find it especially useful for typing passwords.
They were originally used in old IBM keyboard such as the Model M. AFIK, you can only get new ones from Unicomp (http://pckeyboard.com/). They basically sell updated versions of the original IBMs.
I had one, but lost a key to a spilled drink so I'm wait for another to come in on order.
-
Here's a page explaining some of the major types of switches. (https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/faqs.php?faq=mechanical_switch_difference)
I don't have much experience with other switch types besides messing around with display models at stores and not liking the feel as much, but personally, I like buckling springs because they are the only mechanical switch where the tactile and audible feedback correspond to the exact moment the switch actuates. I find it especially useful for typing passwords.
They were originally used in old IBM keyboard such as the Model M. AFIK, you can only get new ones from Unicomp (http://pckeyboard.com/). They basically sell updated versions of the original IBMs.
I had one, but lost a key to a spilled drink so I'm wait for another to come in on order.
I love the old school look. And it was the IBM Model M that got me into wanting a mechanical. We had one when I worked as a computer tech and I fell in love.
I've been seeing the Coolermaster Quickfire series recommended a ton. Looking at the full-sized XT at the moment: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129021&ignorebbr=1
*EDIT*
Just saw gunner adding to the CM recommendation above. :)p6
-
+1 for some Quickfire, and someday, when you have bucks laying around, get some nice PBT keycaps for it, massdrop usually have nice deals, there's also two trusted sellers on ebay, Qtan and Widebasket (the last one should receive some batch of Leopold keycaps that are great in some months), don't search further, keyboard virus is a dangerous thing :)p5
And BTW, if you don't use the numpad a lot, I recommend the TKL version, it's much more comfortable to use
-
Yes, get the TKL version (quickfire rapid) if you don't need the numpad. It'll allow you to keep your mouse and keyboard closer together, which is more ergonomic. Plus it saves you a little bit if desk space if you don't use a keyboard tray (which is also generally recommended too!). Newegg seems to have the appropriate prices for the Rapid but Amazon's is pretty expensive for some reason.
Rosewill (Newegg's sister brand/company) is also decent. They had some QC problems in the past, so I don't know if they've fixed it or not.
WASD Keyboards is another choice, and gives you options to select your keycaps since they come bare.
I'm not sure whatever happened with Leopolds. Elitekeyboards used to carry them, but they now carry "Keyed Up Labs Keyboards". I have no idea if those are any good or not.
If you want to splurge a bit, Realforces are also another option for a very different kind of feel. I could tell you more about them or you can look them up if you're interested. They're available from elitekeyboards. I just noticed that they're like $100 cheaper than what I paid for a new one a couple of years back, heh.
-
CM Storm Keyboards are basically rebranded Filco keyboards. Either is amazing and I'd say it's really down to what kind of switches you wanna get.
If you liked the "bump" in the middle of your button press from your BW, get either the Blue or Brown switches. Otherwise get Red switches to get rid of the bump. You should know if you need Black or any of the other switches.
If Filco's are too expensive/not available to you easily, Ducky's are a decent (Chinese) alternative.
-
I love my 60% Leopold with brown switches. It's small enough to take up very little desk space but is built heavy enough to kill a hobo with.
I've used a Microsoft Trackball Explorer for the past 15 years. I've never used a trackball that I like even remotely as much. I definitely don't look forward to the day when this one dies since they fetch insane prices on the used market.
-
I'm not sure whatever happened with Leopolds. Elitekeyboards used to carry them, but they now carry "Keyed Up Labs Keyboards". I have no idea if those are any good or not.
KUL is sort of a hyped brand nowadays, people usually say good things about it, although I haven't seen any great review of it yet.
I love my 60% Leopold with brown switches. It's small enough to take up very little desk space but is built heavy enough to kill a hobo with.
+1, mine use blues, and I'm looking to get one with clears and after the FC660C.
-
Blasphemy, I know, but has anyone tried the monoprice mechanical keyboards?
-
Alright after a while with the DAS 4 Ultimate...
Decent. Finish is top-notch, its very slim and sleek looking. The media controls are quite nice; it has a digital volume control like the ones you see on some of the more modern home theater systems. It types pretty well and was very easy for me to get used to, though I do wish I could've gotten greens; it's not as tactile as I was hoping. But definitely something I'm willing to live with for the aesthetics and media controls.
Completely plug-'n'-play too. No setup of any kind, every feature (NKRO, media controls, USB hub) works without any hassle or custom software. Very refreshing experience compared to what I've had to deal with from Razer.
The footbar, however. Holy shit. This is the fly in the soup. Ridiculously stupid "feature" that has caused me nothing but grief. No flat edge to line the keyboard up with the monitor, which makes it almost impossible for me to use my graphics tablet and keyboard at the same time. The damn thing never stays on, either. "You'll thank us later" my ass.
Also, no cable channels, and the cable is absolutely fucking enormous, it looks like a fucking IEC power cable and is permanently jutting straight out the back. Hate it.
Now I'm thinking about mods. That cable has to go, and I'd like to switch out the springs for higher resistance ones, to make it behave like greens instead of blues. Anyone have any advice on a mod like this? I've also got a set of PBT caps coming in; the stock keycaps are already glossing over.
-
Using Logitech Proteus Core G502 - great mouse. Being an FPS shooter fan and having used many mouse over the years, this one is great.
-
I just picked up a Noppoo Lolita w/ Kailh Blues as a secondary keyboard, so I can send my ES-87 Reds to work.
It's been a long time since I've typed on a clicky Blue-like switch. The Kailhs feel pretty much like how I remember the Cherry MX Blues.
Decent feature set for the money, but I need to get used to typing on these. The spacebar feels very different than I've been used to using. I've got doubleshot PBTs coming in the mail today, so that'll be fun to use.
-
Got my Cherry MX switch tester from Massdrop (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/cm-storm-cherry-mx-switch-tester) on Monday. Now I have to decide on what kind of switches to go for on my eventual gaming keyboard...
I have another Unicomp from Massdrop coming in today as well. The left Ctrl on my last one stopped working which makes the whole thing pretty much useless. I've been typing on a cheap rubber dome for the last couple months so it will be great to finally have a real keyboard again.
-
Got this thing today. If it wasn't for FPS's, I wouldn't need anything else
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81pJpXN1w2L._SL1500_.jpg)
-
Seriously, why the hell can't they just up the resolution on those? I used to be an avid dedicated trackball user till the resolution for fps just became a no go.
-
Got this thing today. If it wasn't for FPS's, I wouldn't need anything else
I use one of those a a remote for the HTPC side of my computer.
I just saw this CST LaserTrac Glow trackball on Massdrop (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/cst-lasertrac-glow) today. No ideas if it's any good or not, but goes up to 1600dpi.
-
Hah, nice to see other trackball users. They're pretty much all I've been using for the past fifteen years.
-
Thinking of getting a Ducky Shine Magenta, I miss the purple glow! Probably go with browns since they seem to be good all around ones.
-
Seriously, why the hell can't they just up the resolution on those? I used to be an avid dedicated trackball user till the resolution for fps just became a no go.
It seems to me that the red trackball in this mouse gives me much finer control over things. Or maybe this blue one just needs time to break in?
-
I use one of those a a remote for the HTPC side of my computer.
I just saw this CST LaserTrac Glow trackball on Massdrop (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/cst-lasertrac-glow) today. No ideas if it's any good or not, but goes up to 1600dpi.
Nice, but I don't want my fingers tied up on the ball if I need to click. I like the thumb ball better. The original Logitech trackball with the red marble and black dots worked great. It just needed more finer dots.