CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: ultrabike on January 15, 2014, 07:24:00 AM
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A coworker lent me his good 'ol HD580s. He bought them new, but after quite a few years, these have gone through all sorts of pad replacements. The cans are a bit loose in terms of grip, probably due to years of use. That said, they are almost mint and very well taken care off.
Sound
These sound quite nice. IMO pretty balanced and with reasonable bass impact when required. Pretty clean. No obvious FR deal breakers. Decent soundstage when playing binaurals and other stuff. Quite enjoyable.
Comfort
These are quite loose due to use. Still, as expected, quite light and comfy.
Presentation
Prefer the looks of the HD558 and HD650 to their siblings. Don't dig the lattice brick wall HD580 cups that much. That said, I do like the classic overall form and head-band. Not sure what the deal is with the current TOTL Frankenband fashion.
Price
These appear to be as close to an HD600 as can be. Moreover, the used goods market seems to price a "pristine" pair too close to a good deal for a brand new HD600... So I would get an HD600. I guess not to bad if ever a crazy deal comes up, or if into collecting stuff.
Overall
Not a brain fart and pirate's booty material living on through the venerable HD600...
(http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx92/FirePhoenixAudio/ChangApproved5Star_zps0229f778.jpg)
Measurements
Frequency Response
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=5546;image)
Distortion Right
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=5305;image)
Distortion Left
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=5307;image)
CSD Right
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=5309;image)
CSD Left
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=5311;image)
Impedance
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=5313;image)
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Overlay with HD600s...
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=5315;image)
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Holy cow... I've (we've) seen left/right drivers from the same cans that have more deviation than that!
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Yup. So far the HD600 and old HD580 line seem reasonably consistent.
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Do you know if the 580s have had the foam behind the driver removed? http://apuresound.com/hdsennmod.html After about 10-12 years, they started to disintegrate on mine so I just removed them- not so much for the modding effects. And no, I didn't hear much difference from removing the back pad- removing the front one, big difference.
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Nope, still there. There are obvious signs of wear, but the mini-pads behind the drivers look reasonable to me.
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I was able to buy one of these (with HD600 grills and foam removed) about two years ago for $135. The owner sold them because he didn't want to bother with changing the pads and headband padding anymore. First thing I did was to buy a new set of pads for them. Probably the best second hand purchase I've made.
Anyway, I was able to compare them to one of the more recent HD650. They sounded very similar as well, but it wasn't under ideal conditions.
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New HD 650 are quite comparable, as in very hard to tell apart - they have slightly more warmth and less bass distortion. Slightly less neutral due to that minor bass tilt, but it's still there.
HD 580 and 600 are the weakest in subbass, audible distortion but not too bad. They do like some additional power, something less wimpy than ye olde iPhone out.
Definitely a benchmark in their price range, then and now still.
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Sometimes HD580s in good condition drop in the $180-200 range used. It's definitely one of the best deals on the market when it does.
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UB, you rock. I have had my HD580's since the beginning of this journey and I immediately painted them in order to force myself not to sell them. It seems that my ears aren't lying to me when they say I made a good choice. I've done some short A/B with my friend's HD600 and couldn't find any differences aside from clamp (my 580's have also become quite weak in this department).
A question for you Sennheiser owners: is it possible to remove only the yolk/gimbal from the headband? I want to order a new headband (probably the grey 650) but it comes with the entire headband down to the yolk. I want to keep my black yolk with the 580 badges... If I could simply buy the plastic headband piece, I'd be all set, since it seems the lack of clamp pressure is simply due to the deformation on the plastic over time. Unfortunately Sennheiser doesn't sell this piece alone.
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A question for you Sennheiser owners: is it possible to remove only the yolk/gimbal from the headband?
You may be in need of one of these (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/849939509/yolkr-the-incredible-egg-yolk-separator).
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Sometimes HD580s in good condition drop in the $180-200 range used. It's definitely one of the best deals on the market when it does.
Thanks for the measurements Ultrabike! And definitely SanjiWatsuki. I picked up a great condition pair (one small paint chip on the headband) for just over $200 in early October. They came with the original box/DSP unit, both 580 and 600 grills, and a trio of stock/HD650/and Yew Audio Quad Braid cables. It was the first full-size open phone I had heard >.>
Question: I'm currently using an ODAC/O2 with it as my desktop setup. Given how close these are to HD600/650's, I'd assume that they'd similarly benefit from replacing the O2 with a Schiit Vali? (Microphonics taken into account, of course.)
Edit: Why am I even asking this question? It answers itself.
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Your very welcome guys!
@Thujone, I'm not sure about the gimbal/headband removal. I'll see what I can find out.
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Holy moly the treble measures nice on the HD580 and 600.
So why did the HD600s I owned still sound a bit veiled and lacking in detail?
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Probably because you read somewhere that they were veiled and you thought it was a good idea to let placebo take over. Or maybe you're used to Beyers.
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FWIW, I do think the HD600 are warmer than the plots indicate. Still more neutral than most other headphones out there though.
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The measurements are IMO relative. That said, I did find my HD600 somewhat neutral and did not feel they were veiled or detail lacking. I wouldn't call them analytical though.
BTW, I was told by my co-worker that he has had the HD580 for ~14 years and still rocking headbang.
I also checked the headband and it's not obvious to me how to get just the headband w/o the gimbal.
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Holy moly the treble measures nice on the HD580 and 600.
So why did the HD600s I owned still sound a bit veiled and lacking in detail?
Probably for the same reasons people think an image on a TV looks "soft" if you set the sharpness settings to properly calibrated levels. (See factory settings for most TVs and understand that most don't change them, thus their frame of reference is objectively incorrect.).
Alternatively, bandwagon mentality and placebo, product variation (isolated batches and units or across years), personal tastes and sensitivity to treble, etc.
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Probably because you read somewhere that they were veiled and you thought it was a good idea to let placebo take over. Or maybe you're used to Beyers.
Wow, I'm not sure whether you're serious or not. Thanks for the warm welcome though. I wasn't trying to put down your favorite headphone or whatever, just talk about my experiences with the HD600 I owned. I've never even heard a Beyer in my life and I didn't really read much about the HD600s; I just ordered them after hearing my friend's pair. Six months later I bought some modded T50RPs (Mad Dogs) and sold the HD600s shortly after because I felt the Senns were a bit lacking in detail. The measurements (and other people's impressions) seem to contradict my experiences though so I was just wondering if anyone had any plausible reasons for my experiences or if maybe I just got a bad set.
The measurements are IMO relative. That said, I did find my HD600 somewhat neutral and did not feel they were veiled or detail lacking. I wouldn't call them analytical though.
BTW, I was told by my co-worker that he has had the HD580 for ~14 years and still rocking headbang.
I also checked the headband and it's not obvious to me how to get just the headband w/o the gimbal.
Huh, as I mentioned above, I'm starting to wonder if maybe I got a bad pair or something, since mine sounded a bit lacking in detail. To be fair I didn't really think they were that veiled, only a tiny bit.
That's impressive that they're still rocking after 14 years!
Holy moly the treble measures nice on the HD580 and 600.
So why did the HD600s I owned still sound a bit veiled and lacking in detail?
Probably for the same reasons people think an image on a TV looks "soft" if you set the sharpness settings to properly calibrated levels. (See factory settings for most TVs and understand that most don't change them, thus their frame of reference is objectively incorrect.).
Alternatively, bandwagon mentality and placebo, product variation (isolated batches and units or across years), personal tastes and sensitivity to treble, etc.
Hmm, I think the other possibility is that I didn't quite describe my impressions well enough. :-[
There's just something that I can't quite correlate to measurements, it's the apparent "clarity" to my ears. For some reason, my HD600s just didn't sound as "clear" or "hi-fidelity" to me as other things I've heard. Again, I have no clue what area of the frequency range it is or whatever, but my set just didn't sound as good as "clear" as my Mad Dogs, despite the fact that most of the MDs treble is quieter than the HD600.
Anyway, I should probably just shut up now so the thread can stay on the topic of this HD580... :spank:
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^ Squished pads? Mine get all closed in and warmer when the pads need changing.
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^ Squished pads? Mine get all closed in and warmer when the pads need changing.
I purchased them brand new (or at least supposedly new from Razor Dog Audio) and the pads seemed to be new along with everything else, so I'm not so sure it was the pads. Maybe it was just a bad batch though?
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I think it's possible that there was a QA or product variation problem.
Note however that the veil and lack of detail issue even has a dedicated HF beat the Sarah Jessica Parker smiley associated with it according to these sources:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/very-important-sennheiser-hd-580-hd-600-and-hd-650 (http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/very-important-sennheiser-hd-580-hd-600-and-hd-650)
http://www.head-fi.org/t/630723/themed-monthly-avatar-committee-tmac-discussion-thread/3210#post_9245472 (http://www.head-fi.org/t/630723/themed-monthly-avatar-committee-tmac-discussion-thread/3210#post_9245472)
And it's been hinted, also in the past, that these perception might be a result of setting a particular headphone: Beyer, Grado, AT, and even some Stax as references, all of which might be relatively indeed brighter, and sometimes described as more detailed.
FWIW I also felt that relative to the HD600 and HD580, the AD might hit deeper, were a tad brighter and perhaps a little more analytical.
Also, in the frequency response overlay below, the Alpha Dogs seem to exhibit more energy in the mid and upper treble region up to 13 or 14 kHz where the AD starts to roll off around the air region. IMO brightness might be more of a 5 to 13 kHz deal
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=5343;image)
That said, the ADs I heard were nowhere near the levels of brightness of my DT990-250. Just boost that 5 to 13 kHz range with an EQ to the levels displayed here and you might hear what I mean:
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=221.0;attach=846;image)
EDIT: Shut, for some reason I read you had the ADs instead of the MDs MechG... Sorry about that. I though the MDs were a little warmer but deeper in the bass (relative to HD600s). The MDs have gone through some revisions. But like Hans said below, the do seem to have a slight hump at 10 kHz.
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There's just something that I can't quite correlate to measurements, it's the apparent "clarity" to my ears. For some reason, my HD600s just didn't sound as "clear" or "hi-fidelity" to me as other things I've heard. Again, I have no clue what area of the frequency range it is or whatever, but my set just didn't sound as good as "clear" as my Mad Dogs, despite the fact that most of the MDs treble is quieter than the HD600.
I don't necessarily think this is too off topic, especially since we can probably have a good, insightful discussion about it compared to some other well-known headphone sites.
Again, it could just be product variation, even with the Mad Dog (MD variation, I'd guess, is more likely than Senn. variation). FWIW, I think some measurements show the Mad Dog as more laid-back or having less treble than it does, but I have a history of being sensitive to treble as-is. But, even on this site, you can find a few HD580/600 measurements that show slight differences in the treble, enough to potentially explain what you heard.
The Mad Dog/T50RP also doesn't have the smoothest treble, so there could be emphasis spots that correlate to a sense of clarity. The T50RP seems pretty notorious for showing a spike around 10KHz in measurements, and I find that spot to add a sense of clarity to the sound.
I know some have said the HD600/650 can be a bit slow or warm. Perhaps that could be "crowding out" a sense of clarity, especially since the HD600 exhibits signs of extra harmonic distortion in the bass. I'd guess that coupled with the slight rise in the mid/upper bass contributes to that.
These possible factors aside, personal tastes and your frame of reference in which you judge something play a large role in perception. I have not heard the HD600 (most similar was the HD598), but I'd wager they're probably a better point of reference than most other headphones. That's not to say your personal tastes and hearing sensitivities perfectly match up with a known good frame of reference (thinking more objectively here), but there's nothing wrong with that.
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Shut, thanks Hans! For some reason I thought MechG had the ADs instead of the MDs facepalm
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I know some have said the HD600/650 can be a bit slow or warm. Perhaps that could be "crowding out" a sense of clarity, especially since the HD600 exhibits signs of extra harmonic distortion in the bass. I'd guess that coupled with the slight rise in the mid/upper bass contributes to that.
I tend to think that this is the case by looking at the CSDs and listening. But we enjoy this series for the tonal balance- not hurting us with peaks, or annoying us with suck-outs. People tune to taste with the slight differences in FR between the models. Just solid, nice cans, with good value compared to lots of stuff. Oh, and they can sound "great"/quite different on various pieces of gear...
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mech, I wasn't trying to be rude. Like UB said, the topic of veiled or not veiled has been nearly beat to death; I was merely teasing.
hans and CT both have very good points. Your perception of the ideal sound and your equipment will both contribute to how the HD600's sound to you, especially considering their scalability.
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I think it's possible that there was a QA or product variation problem.
Note however that the veil and lack of detail issue even has a dedicated HF beat the Sarah Jessica Parker smiley associated with it according to these sources:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/very-important-sennheiser-hd-580-hd-600-and-hd-650 (http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/very-important-sennheiser-hd-580-hd-600-and-hd-650)
http://www.head-fi.org/t/630723/themed-monthly-avatar-committee-tmac-discussion-thread/3210#post_9245472 (http://www.head-fi.org/t/630723/themed-monthly-avatar-committee-tmac-discussion-thread/3210#post_9245472)
And it's been hinted, also in the past, that these perception might be a result of setting a particular headphone: Beyer, Grado, AT, and even some Stax as references, all of which might be relatively indeed brighter, and sometimes described as more detailed.
FWIW I also felt that relative to the HD600 and HD580, the AD might hit deeper, were a tad brighter and perhaps a little more analytical.
Also, in the frequency response overlay below, the Alpha Dogs seem to exhibit more energy in the mid and upper treble region up to 13 or 14 kHz where the AD starts to roll off around the air region. IMO brightness might be more of a 5 to 13 kHz deal
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=5343;image)
That said, the ADs I heard were nowhere near the levels of brightness of my DT990-250. Just boost that 5 to 13 kHz range with an EQ to the levels displayed here and you might hear what I mean:
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=221.0;attach=846;image)
EDIT: Shut, for some reason I read you had the ADs instead of the MDs MechG... Sorry about that. I though the MDs were a little warmer but deeper in the bass (relative to HD600s). The MDs have gone through some revisions. But like Hans said below, the do seem to have a slight hump at 10 kHz.
Huh, I had no idea that smiley was about the HD6X0 series being veiled! :o
That's interesting, it seems that the treble on the AD doesn't get very much louder than the Senns for very long, but yet they do sound brighter than what I think the measurements should indicate...
In all fairness, at one point while owning the HD600s I owned the Brainwavz B2s, which have treble peaks of death and I was probably using that as my reference at the time; frankly I don't remember now. And now I have STAX SR-202s. I have no idea where they sit among the other Lambdas that have been measured, but they're my current reference for "clarity".
There's just something that I can't quite correlate to measurements, it's the apparent "clarity" to my ears. For some reason, my HD600s just didn't sound as "clear" or "hi-fidelity" to me as other things I've heard. Again, I have no clue what area of the frequency range it is or whatever, but my set just didn't sound as good as "clear" as my Mad Dogs, despite the fact that most of the MDs treble is quieter than the HD600.
I don't necessarily think this is too off topic, especially since we can probably have a good, insightful discussion about it compared to some other well-known headphone sites.
Again, it could just be product variation, even with the Mad Dog (MD variation, I'd guess, is more likely than Senn. variation). FWIW, I think some measurements show the Mad Dog as more laid-back or having less treble than it does, but I have a history of being sensitive to treble as-is. But, even on this site, you can find a few HD580/600 measurements that show slight differences in the treble, enough to potentially explain what you heard.
The Mad Dog/T50RP also doesn't have the smoothest treble, so there could be emphasis spots that correlate to a sense of clarity. The T50RP seems pretty notorious for showing a spike around 10KHz in measurements, and I find that spot to add a sense of clarity to the sound.
I know some have said the HD600/650 can be a bit slow or warm. Perhaps that could be "crowding out" a sense of clarity, especially since the HD600 exhibits signs of extra harmonic distortion in the bass. I'd guess that coupled with the slight rise in the mid/upper bass contributes to that.
These possible factors aside, personal tastes and your frame of reference in which you judge something play a large role in perception. I have not heard the HD600 (most similar was the HD598), but I'd wager they're probably a better point of reference than most other headphones. That's not to say your personal tastes and hearing sensitivities perfectly match up with a known good frame of reference (thinking more objectively here), but there's nothing wrong with that.
True. It does seem that there are some variations, both in measurements and impressions for many headphones, especially the HD600 since they're so popular.
You're probably right on the issue of the 10k area adding to perceived clarity, but I think it may also have something to do with the midrange as well. I don't remember the details, but if I remember right, going from the Mad Dog 3.0 to 3.2, the 10k area didn't change very much, but the perceived clarity was boosted, at least in my opinion.
Maybe the CSDs can shed some light on the issue of being "slow"? These CSDs seem fairly clean though. It could also be the bass as well. I have noticed that for some reason, bassier headphones do seem to not have as much clarity as bass-light headphones.
I do think the frame of reference is probably a big part of it as well. I haven't heard the HD600s in a while, but I did listen to the HD650s not too long ago in less than ideal conditions, and felt that they were lacking clarity, but I was directly comparing them to the Mad Dogs and indirectly comparing them to my STAX SR-202 with real leather pads from the 507/404LE.
Shut, thanks Hans! For some reason I thought MechG had the ADs instead of the MDs facepalm
No, it's all good. I own the Mad Dogs but I got to audition the Alpha Dogs as well. :)
I know some have said the HD600/650 can be a bit slow or warm. Perhaps that could be "crowding out" a sense of clarity, especially since the HD600 exhibits signs of extra harmonic distortion in the bass. I'd guess that coupled with the slight rise in the mid/upper bass contributes to that.
I tend to think that this is the case by looking at the CSDs and listening. But we enjoy this series for the tonal balance- not hurting us with peaks, or annoying us with suck-outs. People tune to taste with the slight differences in FR between the models. Just solid, nice cans, with good value compared to lots of stuff. Oh, and they can sound "great"/quite different on various pieces of gear...
You're probably right on the money here as well. They do have a nice tonal balance that pretty much never hurts your ears. That's only part of my personal tastes for headphones though, I also like to have a sense of detail and clarity without hurting my ears with treble spikes of death.
And you also bring up a good point with amplifiers. I was only ever able to hear them on my custom built O2 with OPA2234 opamps and no tube amps or higher end SS amps.
mech, I wasn't trying to be rude. Like UB said, the topic of veiled or not veiled has been nearly beat to death; I was merely teasing.
hans and CT both have very good points. Your perception of the ideal sound and your equipment will both contribute to how the HD600's sound to you, especially considering their scalability.
Sorry that I took you seriously. I had kind of forgot how hotly debated the issue of "veil" has been surrounding the Senns over all the years. No hard feelings. :)
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Regarding the change from MD 3.0 to 3.2, Dan might have figured out how to lower the harmonic distortion a bit. That could play a role. It could also just be the tonal balance shift simply making it sound clearer. I think I know what you're talking about, though, and I'd have to guess it's multiple small changes that add up. Or it really could just be one tiny thing. *shrug*
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Mechgamer123, when you are used to or started with bright headphones the smooth headphones in the beginning often sound less clear, subjectively speaking.
I used to think I liked bright headphones but over time I preferred smoother sounding headphones with less emphasis on the treble. The effect of expecting raised or peaky treble can sub-consciously still affect you when you still have and use bright headphones.
For example listen to music with bright headphones and then switch to something like a HD598. The HD598 will initially sound less engaging and maybe even dull or veiled. It is just something you notice when you compare headphones over time.
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These my main good phones, along with Apple In-ears for portable use. I got a great deal, $200 for 2 pairs on Craigslist and then I sold one pair for $150 and kept the other pair that had like-new pads.
I've been thinking upgrading them with HD650 drivers. My main complaint about the 580 is that the treble, while better than any other headphones I've heard, doesn't sound as refined as, say, the better $400-500 bookshelf speakers out there. There seems to be something irritating going on in the treble, despite the fact that everyone online says they're warm and veiled.
I'm wondering if it's those little lower-treble humps that I'm hearing. The HD650 seems to lack those, but on one of the samples measure here had a huge treble depression that didn't look good.
Also I'm curious as to whether the HD580 frame makes much difference, and whether I should upgrade the grills. The closely matched measurements between the 580 and 600 seem to indicate that it's not too important.
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I'm not sure if the HD580/600/650 get the same drivers from the factory.
However, the replacement drivers for all of these seems to call for the same part number 091570 (http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/sennheiser-replacement-capsules-hd600-hd580p-hd580j-hd580-1-each.html).
If all of these cans use the same driver, besides some possible differences in the damping scheme inside the cup, the only thing I can think off is driver cherry picking at the factory.
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@Hans####: Dan did say he reduced the lower midrange by a bit (in reference to the LCD-2) and added emphasis in the 4k area that would make the MD sound "clear", for what it's worth. I don't know honestly. I feel like I need to listen to this pair of 580s or some HD600s at least to see how they compare to what I remember.
@Deep Funk: That's true. I did find the Mad Dogs to be more detailed despite generally being more laid back, but as Hans noted, that's probably because of the 10khz peak. I also noticed the bass was more detailed on the MDs, but I'm also guessing that might have to do with lower distortion and possibly the lack of a midbass hump?
@Ultrabike: Weird, I looked on that website and it looks like the HD650 uses a different driver that's actually cheaper than the 580 and the 600?
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Shut you are right! The HD650 part number is 092855 (http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/sennheiser-replacement-capsules-hd650-each.html), not 091570!
Thanks for the correction :)
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I also noticed the bass was more detailed on the MDs, but I'm also guessing that might have to do with lower distortion and possibly the lack of a midbass hump?
If my memory is serving me correctly, the Sennheisers do have more harmonic distortion in the bass, and that hump would have a lot to do with it as well.
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Updated FR scale and ranges on first post.
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Got the 580 Jubilee in, with the prototype 600 driver. Quickly hooked them up to the X3 to make sure they worked and had to keep listening for the full album. I'm kind of blown away, these are better than the 650s I have laying around and the well-worn earpads make them feel virtually weightless. Vocals sound terrific and while the bass definition is still slightly short of the best there's little bloat or congestion. A very cohesive sound.
What do you say, Gilberto, you up for measuring another pair of the Senn 6xx family? :)p14
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Yuppers! PM sent! :)p2
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Adding some HD580 Jubilee edition stuffs:
Impressions: Very nice. Measurements seem to show a bit more roll off in the sub-bass region than some other HD6x0, but I don't hear it bass lite at all. This is a pretty well taken care off unit BTW.
Frequency Response
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=7025;image)
Distortion Right
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=7027;image)
Distortion Left
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=7029;image)
CSD Right
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=7031;image)
CSD Left
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=7033;image)
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A quick fr comparo between the old pads and new pads installed.
Right
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=7037;image)
Left
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=7039;image)
And a comparo with my HD600s (measured a few minutes ago) - left drivers. This was done more to double check the measurement rig than anything else. Again, I don't hear these as bass lite.
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1399.0;attach=7041;image)
There is a difference of about 3 dB in efficiency (mine being a little more efficient). This brings IMO a point about replacing drivers (if needed): They should be matched.
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Thanks for this. :money: I'd been wondering about the Jubilees, as I prefer its look to the 600.
So that regular HD580 measured closer to HD600 than the Jubilee? I wouldn't have expected that.
Edit: The emoticon says "money." I thought I was giving you a Heineken.
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Edit: The emoticon says "money." I thought I was giving you a Heineken.
It's a Heineken. Which is what you usually give to people you don't like.
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In that case, I meant to give him a Jever.
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:)p13 It's a Heineken... (http://www.austrianshop.com/ebusiness/filesharing/Productpics/jever.jpg)(http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/m/magic_wand-3412.gif) Fixed!
I'm not sure about the regular HD580 measuring closer to the HD600s in general. There might be some product variation. These don't sound off to me though. Dunno. I also prefer the look of the HD580 Jubilee. This set is very well preserved relative to what I've seen on Ebay.
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You life in Europe too? Cool.
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Thanks for the thorough measurements, G! The bass roll off surprised me too, I didn't expect it to be down so much in the last octave. The greater treble presence is probably why I prefer these to the HD650s.
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The new pads seem to bring a tad more air and treble presence. I found them pretty awesome actually.
I also feel that this is how the HD600 should have looked like. I don't get the "marbled" presentation approach.
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popcorn
I bought the HD580 two times. 100€ each time. Best bang the buck I've ever bought and my main recommandation for anyone who want to buy a cheap top headphone. sadly , they become rare on second hand market. I sold mine to friends after I discovered I hadn't anymore use of them when I found a good HD800 rig.
Im' always awed when I read that the HD580 was released more than 20 years ago.