Post by: Marvey on July 04, 2014, 06:58:52 AM
Important clarification: Ratings used here are not like a typical star system where one star means shitty and four stars means great. Instead, we are measuring increasing levels of goodness, from one to four. If there's even one star (or pirate), that means it's a decent product. Only when the pile of smelly sh1t icon is used, does it that mean something is bad.
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HD800
(conditional on mods and tweaks)
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The HD800 will need a amp. A dry clinical sounding solid state amp will do the HD800 no favors. People seem to like tubes with the HD800. Teton, Stratus, 4-45, BA, WA5 are good selections. Vahalla 2, Crack with the speedball, or even the Vali are good HD800 amps on the low end. Surprising the Sennheiser HDVD800 DAC/Amp combo unit works well with the HD800. Do not pair the HD800 with one of those tube amps which turn everything into warm gooey mush like the Leben or Cary. That would be like curing an oversteering RWD car by making it FWD. Tame the brightness and hard sounding treble glare with the Anax 2.0 mod and or EQ instead. The HD800 scales and scales and scales. We have not found an amp which has exceeded its capabilities yet.
While the HD800 does not have the best transient response, speed, nor cleanest sound, nothing resolves microdetail as well as the HD800. This is assuming you have the capable upstream gear, which most people do not and never will. Yup, not even the SR-009 and T2DIY combination (which I owned next to the BA and HD800) resolves more low level information. Although the SR-009 does many other things better, especially “getting out of the way” (lower distortion throughout) than the HD800. Finally, and I don't know if many people have realized this: the HD800 images so well because it's basically two drivers suspended in air slightly in front of your ears. It's not a perfect solution because the wire screen does tend to reflect sound back, thus resulting in what some people have described as an overly diffuse image. I don't have a problem with it, but the Anax 2.0 mod does help with this.
Schiit Audio Ragnorak
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I have heard several iterations of the Ragnorak at a few meets. Since the Rag has not been finalized, I will not comment on its sound. Please do not be a retard and think that this statement implies I am hiding something. To put things in perspective, the prototype of what is now the EC 4-45 (my primary speaker and headphone amp) took a lot of effort to make it sound good. And even then, some luck and alignment of the stars was needed.
That being said, I will report back if I hear any recent progress assuming I would be allowed to do so.
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Fostex TH-900
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The TH-900 resolves microdetail moderately well. Where the TH-900 excels is with its very clean and clear sound. The low bass distortion coupled with a depression in the lower mids helps contribute to this. By the way, I forgot to mention the bass. The midbass is manageable, but the low to sub bass levels are quite insane. Fortunately, contrary to what most people may think, the majority of recordings don’t have significant bass energy that down low. The good thing is the quality of the bass is superb: tightly rendered with no mush. Think REL subwoofer for audio. Not "home theatre" subwoofer.
I would not categorize the TH-900 as a neutral or even relatively neutral headphone. It's a fun sounding headphone with a U curve response and very good technicalities. One of these days, I'll probably grab one (they are below 1000USD yet?) and run EQ to tame the bass and the treble spike. Despite it being a closed headphone, don't expect it to seal though. It's pretty leaky in that respect.
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LCD-X
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One caveat. Although very efficient, the LCD-X's 22 ohm impedance is extremely low for a headphone and getting into speaker impedance territory. A low output impedance amp or an amp which will crank out decent current (but not necessary power) at 22 ohms is required. Otherwise the LCD-X will sound very soft and squishy. I actually had very good results with a portable Leckerton UHA-6.
LCD-XC
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Audio-GD Master 7
(with Empirical Audio Off Ramp 5 via i2s) |
Now let's start a pissing contest on which USB to SPDIF converter is best. No, let’s not because we are talking about USB to i2s converters. The Berkeley or Audeophileo USB to SPDIF converters cannot compete with the OR5 i2s implementation. I've heard them them all. DACLadder (God bless his heart) has developed an LVDS (HDMI) interface to replace the RJ-45 i2s on the Master 7. This goes a long way to taking the Ethernet cable (and HDMI cable) out of the equation. And please, the 99USD USB to i2s converter from China on eBay is not the same as the EA OR5. Don't be a retard and think that it would even come close.
Operating to its full potential, the Master 7 is quite special in that it combines the ladder DAC sound (smooth, liquid, lushness, tonal density) with modern technicalities (attack, hyper resolution, clarity). It would be difficult to do better without paying much much more, even taking into account the cost of the OR5. A few things I do not like about the Master 7: its separate panel construction, 120W energy suckage, extreme weight. If the chassis were constructed better, I'd put it on the Changstar loaner program.
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Beyer T1
(good sample) |
A good sample of the T1 is decent though, but still miles away, like 1000 miles, from a well setup HD800 based rig. The good thing is that the T1 tends to work with almost anything upstream.
Post by: Marvey on July 04, 2014, 07:24:59 AM
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AKG K812
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Where the K812 lets us down is its resolving power, or lack thereof. Comparing directly with a “lowly” HD600, the K812 drops of huge amounts of low level information such as string decay, ambient cues, tape noise, etc. This not acceptable for a headphone well over 1000USD and hence the sh1t rating. Although the K812 does have slightly better bass quality than the HD600.
If it where cheaper, like 799USD; well it would probably still get a sh1t rating. The K812 is not necessarily a sh1t headphone, but when compared to other high-end headphones, it is, because it's really a mid-fi headphone. I'd give it a star or two if this were an article on mid-fi headphones.
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JPS Labs Abyss AB-1266
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Best bass quality of any headphone period including the Audezes. It’s not even close, although some people may find the low bass excessive if they cannot get a proper seal. Maybe this is a feature? The pad adjustment scheme, with the indents and magnets, is ingenious. I don’t have to see Anax getting flustered rotating the STAX pads, which never seem to be in the right position, to get the best seal. The only thing worse than that is seeing Anax or me trying to get a Macbook to work. We usually look at it, press a keys, move the mouse pointer, shrug our shoulders, and then walk away.
The best thing about the Abyss its tonal response, which is almost perfect on the right setup. Not as bright as HD800. Not as bassy as the Audezes. But with technicalities in the same league. Wow? Did it really have to take someone from outside the headphone manufacturers to figure this out? Joe Skubinski at JPS Labs stated to me in an e-mail that the goal of the AB-1266 was to mimic high performance speakers. I agree. I always hear people mention the “speakers” thing, but what they forget to mention is the “high performance” aspect. The Abyss is the best overall headphone in my opinion. There's a good story behind this headphone and anyone should feel free to ask Joe about it. I like Joe a lot because we gave him so much crap before the product was released. And he simply proved us wrong by letting his product speak for itself.
The downsides are weight (although I find it surprisingly comfortable), industrial look, and extremely high cost (HINT: as with speaker hi-fi, work with a dealer to get a better deal. Don't be retard. Never pay full MSRP in big boy hi-fi. People think rich people just walk into a store and pay full price. While this sometimes happens, most rich people are tight assholes when it comes to money. I've seen rich people make car salespeople cry. There's a reason why they are rich.
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STAX SR-009
(conditional upon acceptance of ethereal coloration) |
Bass extension is good, but there is a slow slight rolloff in the bass starting from the midrange downward. Because of this, the SR-009 can sound slightly wonky in the mids on non ideal setup or depending upon recording. Don’t bother if visceral bass is important to you. The HD800 is far more capable of visceral bass on a proper setup. SR-009 sub and low bass while present, is limp-dick.
I don’t know if STAX USA has changed much, but USA customer service and support blows chunks. Be sure to keep them protected and in a sealed case with desiccant. STAX headphones hate humidity. The box the SR-009 comes with is a joke.
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HiFiMan HE-560
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Lighter weight now and super comfy with the suspension headband. This is a very good headphone that goes a good job in all aspects. I like to call it the Abyss Lite. If you can somehow grab a pair of the pre-production pads, the HE-560 will sound even better - less dry and bright - warmer and more lush - a bit more in the HE-500 direction.
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LCD-2 (Craig's revision 2)
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LCD-3 (modified)
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Venting mods or running leaky pads such as the vegan are a good idea to reduce the bass bloat and associated veil. If you get a chance to hear Jason’s (Schiit) LCD3 at a meet, you should. You should even bring yours to compare. The LCD-3 is incredibly resolving of low level information for an ortho, despite its laid back sound.
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ALO Studio Six
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Fostex TH600
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Schiit Wyrd
(Warning: YMMV)
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Expect a more focused more precise sound rendering with a blacker background. Maybe even smoother treble as some have reported. Yeah, WTF. These kinds of things aren't supposed to happen in theory. Um, maybe that's why Jason (who has far better measuring equipment(s) than NWAVguy) called it Wyrd. And yes, Anax, Jason, and I played a blind test game. I love blind tests. I love it when people at meets call me in for blind tests.
Post by: Marvey on July 04, 2014, 07:25:10 AM
Post by: Marvey on July 04, 2014, 07:25:19 AM
Post by: Deep Funk on July 04, 2014, 08:46:20 AM
This rating system comes across as short, to the point and good for a chuckle.
Post by: Sorrodje on July 04, 2014, 09:00:47 AM
I'm looking forward to read more popcorn
Post by: thegunner100 on July 04, 2014, 12:13:12 PM
Post by: Eric_C on July 04, 2014, 01:48:39 PM
Post by: azncookiecutter on July 04, 2014, 02:12:51 PM
Post by: thegunner100 on July 04, 2014, 03:15:02 PM
Post by: Mr.Sneis on July 04, 2014, 04:45:59 PM
I appreciate the unobtanium pairs of phones listed, ill take a Craig Uthus special edition LCD-2 please headbang
Post by: Marvey on July 04, 2014, 06:08:40 PM
Damn right, Canada
I hold dual Canada / USA citizenship. I know where PEI and New Brunswick are on the map. I know where the Finch station is in Toronto. But I've lost the "eh" thing.
But Marv... how can you recommend something without owning it for at least a week? walk the plank2
I have actually owned lot of this gear and 95% of it had at one point sat around in my house.
Post by: Byrnie on July 04, 2014, 07:45:21 PM
Post by: thegunner100 on July 05, 2014, 12:33:36 AM
But Marv... how can you recommend something without owning it for at least a week? walk the plank2
I have actually owned lot of this gear and 95% of it had at one point sat around in my house.
Haha, I was just kidding. It was a typical HF response to people recommending gear.
Post by: Marvey on July 05, 2014, 01:33:31 AM
Post by: Marvey on July 05, 2014, 01:34:15 AM
A great read! If only you had seen my Head-Fi pm sooner about the TH900s going for $1100 on SonicSense.com a few months ago. Thank you for your time on this guide!
I missed that deal.
Post by: Anaxilus on July 05, 2014, 02:11:25 AM
But Marv... how can you recommend something without owning it for at least a week? walk the plank2
Hehe. We once posted these on another site. A small sample of some of the phones we've had for listening and testing.
(http://i.imgur.com/kgV33N6l.jpg)
(http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/675421/width/350/height/700/flags/LL)
Post by: anetode on July 05, 2014, 02:14:15 AM
(http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/675421/width/350/height/700/flags/LL)
That's my type of shoot-out: throw all the headphones in a box and shake it, the one that still works is the winner.
Post by: thegunner100 on July 05, 2014, 02:27:41 AM
Hehe. We once posted these on another site. A small sample of some of the phones we've had for listening and testing.
Must have been one hell of a meet. Too bad there's nothing like that on the East coast.
On another note, I had a chance to listen to Craig's LCD-2s when his wife brought them to the last NYC meet... but unfortunately I didn't take the chance. I hope that she comes back another time though, so that I could try them out.
Post by: gelocks on July 05, 2014, 02:45:43 AM
Glad to know I'm not the only one that thinks that the LCD-XC are not as engaging (and frankly not worth their steep price! And yes, I prefer the Alpha Dogs and Enigma's over them!).
Oh and thanks for the HE-560 impressions... I always wanted to try HifiMan cans and just bought a pair of these at a decent price.
Post by: Marvey on July 05, 2014, 02:57:59 AM
Post by: DaveBSC on July 05, 2014, 03:51:52 AM
Post by: Armaegis on July 05, 2014, 04:14:41 AM
That's my type of shoot-out: throw all the headphones in a box and shake it, the one that still works is the winner.
You might wind up with a DT48 that way...
Post by: gelocks on July 05, 2014, 05:14:02 AM
A great read! If only you had seen my Head-Fi pm sooner about the TH900s going for $1100 on SonicSense.com a few months ago. Thank you for your time on this guide!
I missed that deal.
Marv, if you are set on a pair of good sounding TH900s, Oregonian sold his pair which is now being resold at an excellent price considering they are Lawton-modded...
http://www.head-fi.org/t/724907/fostex-th-900-lawton-tuning-q-audio-french-silk-cable-excellent-condition
Post by: Deep Funk on July 05, 2014, 05:22:38 AM
That's my type of shoot-out: throw all the headphones in a box and shake it, the one that still works is the winner.
You might wind up with a DT48 that way...
If I had not yet waken up I would be rolling on the floor from laughter...
Post by: Marvey on July 05, 2014, 05:28:18 AM
Post by: Anaxilus on July 05, 2014, 06:06:50 AM
(http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/675421/width/350/height/700/flags/LL)
That's my type of shoot-out: throw all the headphones in a box and shake it, the one that still works is the winner.
Haha. Actually each phone was placed that way very carefully. We were going for overall effect that's for sure.
Lol, somehow I don't think shaking up a 007, HE6, Jade, HP1000, W3000, DIY WongStats and LCD3 will result in a DT48.
Post by: Armaegis on July 05, 2014, 06:39:02 AM
Post by: Anaxilus on July 05, 2014, 06:42:03 AM
Heh, well I meant if you literally threw a whole bunch of headphones in a box and shook violently, the DT48 would probably be the survivor. The amperior probably second, or perhaps the Aiaiai TMA.
I know, I gotcha bro. ;)
It's okay, ESP950, lifetime warranty. :)p1
Post by: gelocks on July 05, 2014, 07:12:30 AM
Oh no, did Lawton replace the cups with inferior ones?
LOL! Not sure but, hey, you can always test then measure and then compare with your older TH900 measurements! :)
Post by: shipsupt on July 05, 2014, 09:12:14 AM
Oh no, did Lawton replace the cups with inferior ones?
Doesn't look like it in this case. His basic mods don't require changing cups.
Post by: Armaegis on July 05, 2014, 06:20:24 PM
Heh, well I meant if you literally threw a whole bunch of headphones in a box and shook violently, the DT48 would probably be the survivor. The amperior probably second, or perhaps the Aiaiai TMA.
I know, I gotcha bro. ;)
It's okay, ESP950, lifetime warranty. :)p1
On that note, Skullcandy has lifetime warranty as well :)p8
Post by: OJneg on July 05, 2014, 08:10:05 PM
HD800:
It's effin' bright, no way around it. For reference, I find stock HD800 unacceptable on many rigs. Like Marv said, it seems to need mods and speshal toobs and speshal DACs and all sorts of voodoo to sound good. But once you're there, there's nothing quite like it. Incredibly articulate and incredibly immediate. Great imaging and sense of space. Take the prerequisites for what you will.
Fostex TH-900
Too bassy for me.
LCD-X
If the TH900 gets 3 pirates, the LCDX should too (IMO). It's way more accurate and more complete. Still a poor value in the scope of things.
JPS Labs Abyss AB-1266
I think this one should be conditional on mods and speshal matching too. When I heard a stock Abyss I thought it was mediocre, which in turn makes it an absolute sh1t value in the scope of things. This is driven by the Woo Audio monoblock thingy, so if that thing is shitty and was twisting my impressions let me know. I don't have a reference on how the Woo performs. But in earnest, I can say I preferred the HD650 that was sitting next to the Abyss. Yes, I'm someone who takes neutral tone over technicalities any and every day of the week. Bite me.
With regard to Marv's Abyss on Marv's system, it's excellent. The Abyss is the only headphones that literally moves bass toward you like a good speaker system. Most headphones couple the bass to your head and it doesn't sound right. Tonal balance is great but maybe not quite there in terms of absolute accuracy (I felt HD600 or even modded HD800 were more tonally accurate on Marv's system). Another thing that wasn't mentioned was that the Abyss has great air. Fairly close to the HD800 even p:/. Ok, well maybe not quite there, but when you listen side-by-side you don't feel like you're missing much. It's still going to have a lot of space and resolve differences upstream incredibly well. So yeah, it's good.
STAX SR-009
Agree 1000% on condition
LCD-2
I'm probably in the minority here but I think the LCD-2 is an excellent headphone. Perhaps even worthy of 4 stars if we consider value. It's the cheapest headphone that'll get you the "technicalities" that high-end headphones can offer. Bass can deliver big time, high SPL with low distortion! Mids are lush but very detailed and very well placed. Treble has a smooth presentation even if it is still shelved in an absolute sense. It's not sucked out and wonky like other laid-back headphones can be.
Yes it is laid back and yes I realize that makes me a hypocrite for what I just said about the Abyss. But for a lot of overcooked recordings it's perfect. Lets you crank it up without having your ears offended. Some will be offended by the Audeze tonal balance I guess, but I think anyone who wants to get into the high-end should consider it. It's better than being stuck with a face-tweeter.
ALO Studio Six
I don't think it deserves only one pirate really. Unless we're looking at it purely from a value perspective. In which case any 5k amp is a poor value p:/.
At least it's not an overly warm tube amp. I heard it as having an expansive stage while maintaining solid bass. Kind of a wet/ reverby tube sound I guess. I agree that stuff like the 445 or Stratus is more worthy of consideration.
Post by: Hroðulf on July 05, 2014, 08:51:13 PM
Post by: zerodeefex on July 05, 2014, 09:22:38 PM
Alternatively, for you pirates looking for something more "fun" with a tinge more warmth, the Enigma is awesome. I enjoy owning both.
Post by: Eric_C on July 06, 2014, 04:46:51 AM
Was also blown away LCD 2.
Now I'm super curious what you think of Paradox, Enigma and HE-560!
Post by: Hands on July 06, 2014, 04:57:52 AM
Post by: Hroðulf on July 06, 2014, 08:21:16 AM
The Paradox is awesomesauce. Maybe a tad dark, but one of the more neutral sounding headphones that doesn't assault you ears. Not terribly hungry for power and an easy load, so many reasonably powered amps will take care of it. One of the less closed sounding closed headphones. Comfort is off the charts due to suspension headband and earpads as soft as schoolgirl's thighs.
Now I thought I could mal-use my able bodied spermwhale status and shill for another thing I discovered.
Sjostrom amps! Finally someone took headphone amp DIY into 21st century. The QRV-08 made me realize that I don't need giant class A watt sucking space heaters to get extremely good sound. Trounces KG Dynalo, sits happily beside Beta22 and other titans of old. No heat, small size, feasible to never turn off due to about 15W power consumption. The only caveat might be bass which is extremely clean, but some might crave for a harder punch.
Post by: Marvey on July 07, 2014, 05:10:35 PM
Post by: Deep Funk on July 08, 2014, 06:59:33 PM
Also, as "limp dick" can be used to describe "meh", is there an opposite expression for this word which would be suitable? Think of "eargasmic", "erection inducing" or simply "hubba hubba hubba" to quote the great Johnny Bravo.
Post by: Armaegis on July 08, 2014, 07:33:13 PM
Post by: Anaxilus on July 08, 2014, 07:39:28 PM
Also, as "limp dick" can be used to describe "meh", is there an opposite expression for this word which would be suitable?
(http://i.imgur.com/EYrxUbw.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/tA5oKQl.jpg)
Actually it's worse than meh.
Post by: Deep Funk on July 08, 2014, 08:33:14 PM
Post by: kothganesh on September 08, 2014, 07:37:18 AM
Post by: Marvey on September 08, 2014, 08:47:31 PM
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on October 04, 2014, 10:01:38 AM
Awright fellas, who'll buy a sparingly used XC ?
I'll open the bidding at five idlies and a dosa.
But that's just to do you a favour... I don't think I could go any higher...
Post by: kothganesh on October 04, 2014, 03:42:48 PM
Post by: Anaxilus on October 04, 2014, 05:31:29 PM
Awright fellas, who'll buy a sparingly used XC ?
I'll open the bidding at five idlies and a dosa.
But that's just to do you a favour... I don't think I could go any higher...
I'll see your Dosa and raise you a Dosa Masala!
Post by: Marvey on October 04, 2014, 06:38:00 PM
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on October 04, 2014, 08:48:30 PM
I'll see your Dosa and raise you a Dosa Masala!
I think you mean a Masala Dosa ...but hey, I'm out: such stakes (not steaks, of course!) are too high for me!
Post by: kothganesh on October 05, 2014, 09:13:14 AM
Haha...Sankar at Audez'e is probably seething right now :)Awright fellas, who'll buy a sparingly used XC ?
I'll open the bidding at five idlies and a dosa.
But that's just to do you a favour... I don't think I could go any higher...
I'll see your Dosa and raise you a Dosa Masala!
Post by: kothganesh on October 05, 2014, 09:17:21 AM
Can lcd-xc be converted to an LCD-x?
[/quote]
Can lcd-xc be converted to an LCD-x?
Nope, not to my knowledge