CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

Lobby => The Meeting Place => Topic started by: Tyll Hertsens on October 13, 2014, 11:02:13 PM

Title: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Tyll Hertsens on October 13, 2014, 11:02:13 PM
Hi guys, starting this thread because I didn't see one already started and wanted a link for my RMAF intro post.  Hope you don't mind.

Had a great time and though it was actually the best year for stuff I didn't expect to see.

Coolest thing was Sony's Naotaka Tsunoda wants to develop a new standard for headphone connectors that works with both balanced and unbalanced cans.  It's a 4.4mm TRRRS connector.  I'll post pix when I get around to unloading my camera.

Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Armaegis on October 13, 2014, 11:19:45 PM
It's a 4.4mm TRRRS connector.  I'll post pix when I get around to unloading my camera.

I see this leading to a lot of confusion in the consumer world... but if anyone's got the clout to do it, it'd probably be Apple or Sony. 
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Marvey on October 13, 2014, 11:24:07 PM
Yggy impressions:

http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1514.msg49198.html#msg49198 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1514.msg49198.html#msg49198)
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1803.msg49344.html#msg49344 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1803.msg49344.html#msg49344)

copied from some other site:

Maxvla

I heard the stack today with my own music and HD800s. I have a Rag on order from before RMAF and now a yggy will be as well. Fantastic sound. Gave an electrostat type delivery from HD800s the likes of which I've never heard before. Strong impact, clean sparkling highs with the most lifelike voices I've heard from headphones.

I've been a bit luke warm about Schiit stuff for myself wanting the high end, but recognized the value of their lower end gear for people at lower budgets. Now that both Mike and Jason have put out their best, it really shows.

I've never heard an R2R DAC, but I've heard it described how I heard the top Schiit.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Marvey on October 13, 2014, 11:30:02 PM
Any impressions of the Sony headphones?
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Maxvla on October 14, 2014, 01:42:09 AM
Only heard the Z7 and like it a lot. It's a cleaner, tighter, more precise version of the MA900, IMO. Slightly more bass than MA900, but with better texture and impact. Treble is more extended and doesn't lose control like the MA900 can when really pushed. The soundstage is a little smaller cause it's closed, but still good. Front arc imaging is just as good, or perhaps better than MA900 since they share angled design.

It's not perfect, but it's very good and engaging. I'd take it over almost anything else out there.

And that was my impression with it plugged directly into my tablet...

More impressions to follow when I feel like pouring through my notepad.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Tyll Hertsens on October 14, 2014, 03:14:08 AM
Of course it's a crap shoot saying anything about it from listening for 3 minutes at a show...but I liked what I heard, for sure.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Tyll Hertsens on October 14, 2014, 03:53:09 AM
Here's the raw video with Naotaka Tsunoda about the connector. 

Please don't share, I'll put an edited one up in a few days that you can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYF6u1uu2tg&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: kothganesh on October 14, 2014, 04:50:46 AM
Any informed guesses on Yggy release? I think Jason hinted "before year-end"...
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Anaxilus on October 14, 2014, 04:53:58 AM
Any informed guesses on Yggy release? I think Jason hinted "before year-end"...

This is what Jason told me.  I've been scheduled to get #1 for about two years now I think. 
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Anaxilus on October 14, 2014, 04:55:56 AM
Of course it's a crap shoot saying anything about it from listening for 3 minutes at a show...but I liked what I heard, for sure.

Tyll, is anything worthwhile coming from Koss?  A lot of us have been waiting for their revival for ages now.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: kothganesh on October 14, 2014, 04:58:35 AM
Anax,

I know the feeling :). I go back to the email I exchanged with Jason when I ordered the Gungnir/Mojo stack. I begged him not to release the Yggy/Rag too soon since I needed to justify the former stack. His reply was (paraphrased) "Its a long time away". Had no idea it would be this long. But oh well, what's a couple of months more?
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: arnaud on October 14, 2014, 05:24:24 AM
Waiting a couple of months is not a big deal indeed. But having an iggy under the xmas tree would certainly add a certain dose of excitment... Ah, probably need to think February on this one to avoid disappointment...
Arnaud
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: DefQon on October 14, 2014, 05:45:07 AM
Anything new from Sennheiser or Stax? New e-stat or dynamic?
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Maxvla on October 14, 2014, 05:55:54 AM
Any informed guesses on Yggy release? I think Jason hinted "before year-end"...
Talked with Mike (Moffat) at RMAF and he said Q1 2015.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: kothganesh on October 14, 2014, 06:18:38 AM
Any informed guesses on Yggy release? I think Jason hinted "before year-end"...
Talked with Mike (Moffat) at RMAF and he said Q1 2015.

Thanks for the feedback. Arnaud, time to drown our sorrows in the brew.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Tyll Hertsens on October 14, 2014, 12:15:23 PM
There were three new Koss relatively low cost cans (~$100 range as I recall). I thought the on-ear was okay. Too quick a listen to say more than that.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Kunlun on October 14, 2014, 12:47:16 PM
Warren just confirmed that the Sony iem line was at RMAF, did anyone try them out?
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Quart Bernstein on October 14, 2014, 04:44:58 PM

Anything new from Sennheiser or Stax? New e-stat or dynamic?

Unless Sennheiser was showing a prototype to a select few people, I'd think they would use CES to announce a new flagship.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Marvey on October 14, 2014, 04:50:22 PM
I'm not holding my breath for anything from STAX.

I can see the STAX engineers wanting to create an alternate version of the SR-009 with moar bass. And then the Chinese investors going WTF? Why don't you design something we can mass-produce in China and sell millions of instead of concentrating on your autistic line of products which require strange ancient Japanese ceremonies that take six months to complete.

And then basically another war in the Pacific Rim break out.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Clemmaster on October 14, 2014, 05:01:27 PM
I'm not holding my breath for anything from STAX.

I can see the STAX engineers wanting to create an alternate version of the SR-009 with moar bass. And then the Chinese investors going WTF? Why don't you design something we can mass-produce in China and sell millions of instead of concentrating on your autistic line of products which require strange ancient Japanese ceremonies that take six months to complete.

And then basically another war in the Pacific Rim break out.

Marv, you should sleep moar... :D
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Marvey on October 14, 2014, 05:27:08 PM
I had heard a rumor that a few STAX guys actually walked out after a visit from the Chinese delegation.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Anaxilus on October 14, 2014, 06:12:34 PM
I had heard a rumor that a few STAX guys actually walked out after a visit from the Chinese delegation.

I hear all future Stax will be produced on Senkaku.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senkaku_Islands
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Will on October 15, 2014, 12:32:30 AM
Not to turn this thread toward STAX drama rumors, but yea, there was a big dramatic walk-out threat when the Chinese first visited their operation.

At CES this year I got to try a couple new STAX devices, a revamp of their baby/iem stax and a replacement for something in the SR-307 + Amp combo range. The aesthetic was way more modern, had an spl phonator style dial on the front (there's a name for this but I'm too ignant), and their rep made a point to tell me they're trying to target the younger demographic with these new products.

Check at 1:34

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11dZWEUyyTo#t=97

Haven't seen them since.

As far as RMAF goes, I was disappointed SONY didn't bring their new flagship headphone but I got a close look at Noble's new Prestige CIEM. Prettiest CIEMs ever. Wouldn't even want to keep them in my ears, just wear them around my neck...

http://imgur.com/8ESveu5
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Marvey on October 15, 2014, 12:48:46 AM
A revamp would be a good thing for them. I hope they can pull it off. The SRS-002 was impressive in some ways, but I never got the feeling the product was really "together". Quite a few people here had issues with the amp. I think a lot of people ended up returning it. The thing is, there is so much competition.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Kunlun on October 15, 2014, 01:03:04 AM
So, koss had new closed headphones the KOSS Pro4S and SP540 
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: zerodeefex on October 15, 2014, 01:14:19 AM
It sounds much better with better amping. I was under the impression that they were releasing an improved portable and desktop amp for the SR-002.

I still use my SRS-002 sometimes for what it's worth.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: zerodeefex on October 15, 2014, 01:19:14 AM
Also, I have humming in Eco mode. Most of my issues cleared up, though when I realized my eneloops were only 1.2V and switched back to alkaline.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: thune on October 15, 2014, 01:42:52 AM
I've made land at Canjam every year for the last four years.  I use my compass and astrolabe to freehand a map of the strange movements and shifting coastline of this mysterious island. I am haunted by the suspicion that this island itself may be no more than a mirage, as the conflict between viewing it flat-on (anechoic first-arrival response) and viewing it peripherally (room power response) create an un-resolvable interference when attempting to view it with binoculars (headphones with no processing).

(At risk of a stint in the brig.) How a swabbie sees some of the strange creatures on this island (apologies to Darwin):

Schiit Rag/Yggy:
I've heard the Mjolnir/Gungnir stack several times previously. Each time my eyes glazed over and I felt boredom as an immediate emotion. It did not let up after time. Pasteurized/Homogenized/Flat/Lifeless; beyond 'no-character of itself', it was aggressively drab (the embodiment of the glassy/muted sheen of clichéd solid state, with an extra helping of drab.) Now I state this because, for the first 30 seconds of listening to the Rag/Yggy stack I experienced a grave fear that I was in for a repeat. But unlike the Mo/Gun stack, with the Rag/Yggy it quickly became possible to listen-in to the inner life of the individual sounds. I *think* I began to see what the recent R2R DAC talk has been about: texture. Hammer struck strings, air and spit in brass, rosin: the full character of wet reeds, metal, polymer, varnished wood, and flesh: I felt like I was experiencing my tracks in the time-domain, a rare experience lately... and it reminded me of the experiences I had in the mid/late-90s when I was first getting excited about the possibilities of Hi-Fi. Ultimately, I did sense the presentation was a bit flat and slightly dry. This isn't an amp that ends the argument for tubes. My feelings distilled to: possibly great DAC and fully competent solid-state amplifier.

MrSpeakers Alpha Prime:
I think Dan may have taken the criticism of the early Alpha Dogs too much to heart: the Prime is a neutered lapdog on medication. Can't even call it dog. Sure you can kick it all the way up to the ceiling without it biting your ears off, but at normal levels this thing has no life; leaving it easy to focus on the slightly wooden bass and the t50rp ortho driver rasp.

Fostex T500RP:
All I could hear was the wooden bass of the driver, seemingly nutty 4k+ response, and the rasp... I can't un-hear the rasp.

oBRAVO AMT/1;
One could probably make a project of designing a crossover to make it respectable.  As awful as it was, MANY of the 2-channel setups upstairs at RMAF were worse.

Sony MDRZ7:
Distorted low bass, no sub-bass itself but lots of chuff. The rest of the bass is satisfyingly full without being big. Otherwise, it has a pleasant balance with enough presence and treble to keep it exciting. However, it ends up sounding a bit gritty and blatty. Except for the unsatisfying low-bass situation, this is what a normal person would think a $200 headphone should sound like.

Oppo PM-3:
The one prototype I heard was very forward sounding, and seemed rolled off at the ends. There is no resemblance to the character of the PM-1/2 with its laid back, open sound. Maybe they can hammer it out before launch: distortion performance seemed very good so it's just a matter of response shaping.

Blue Microphone Mo-Fi.
Pushed bass that leaves the lower midrange alone mostly. Impression of a ski-jump shaped response. Popular balance and generally satisfying. Some 2k+ peaking kinda killed it for me. Nothing funky about the amp. Seems to do the job. Ugly headband/yoke doesn't actually work well.

Hifiman HE-560/400i
400i never sounded good: "We added 4 extra 1/2" AMT tweeters spaced 5 inches apart, for extra sparkle!" HE-560 sounded fine, but I hear some HE-6 grit and splash, a chaos or micro-rasp in upper range. Some systems seemed better at controlling this than others. But it's one of those "hard to un-hear" problems.

McIntosh MHP1000
Pushed bass, this has a very warm balance, and it bleeds into the upper bass and lowest midrange somewhat. It reminded me a bit of the Fidelio X1 down there, except that the MHP1000 retains good low and sub-bass performance. U shaped probably. Presence region and treble seemed tastefully balanced(shelved) but not particularly smooth (I didn't notice any nasty peaks either). Good closed dynamic headphone. Apple should buy this design out, paint it red, call it Beats Ultimate and sell it for $500-$800.

Pendulumic Stance S1.
Some showstopping resonance issues. (A hoot with some pierce to it, it was odd.) Good popular full balance. Metallic electronic hash in the signal. Never call your product S, you are just asking for it.

Anyway, so that's just one rum-soaked swabbie's notebook on some recently washed up specimens.
Usual disclaimers: lead poisoning, periodic scurvy, and sunstroke.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Maxvla on October 15, 2014, 02:20:06 AM
Well, those are some interesting impressions.  :-Z
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: ultrabike on October 15, 2014, 02:58:34 AM
Yes, I think the HD-560 can be a little splashy depending on your frame of reference. Relative to the PM-1/2, it is definitively a more forward can. Interesting to hear the PM-3 is sort of voiced forward sounding as well.

Interesting stuff on Rag/Yggy. Will check this combo out at the next meet. Thanks Thune!
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: jerg on October 15, 2014, 03:05:43 AM
"Micro-rasp" on HE560's treble. That's the first time I've heard the description, and it actually is the best way of describing what's nagged me too about my HE560's treble too!

Fortunately my secret mods alleviate it greatly.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: TMRaven on October 15, 2014, 03:10:17 AM
I like that Alpha Prime description.  Pretty funny.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Anaxilus on October 15, 2014, 03:30:59 AM
T500RP still has the rasp huh....

I'd love to hear if their new upper tier IEM is what the TE-05 originally sounded like.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Tyll Hertsens on October 15, 2014, 05:09:00 AM
"Micro-rasp" on HE560's treble. That's the first time I've heard the description, and it actually is the best way of describing what's nagged me too about my HE560's treble too!

Yep.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: TMRaven on October 15, 2014, 07:03:50 AM
At least it doesn't sound like mud ala PM-1 or LCD2.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Anathallo on October 15, 2014, 03:39:45 PM
At least it doesn't sound like mud ala PM-1 or LCD2.

Never heard the PM-1, but I wouldn't call the LCD2 muddy.  Veiled at times, but not muddy in my opinion.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Marvey on October 15, 2014, 04:16:33 PM
I've made land at Canjam every year for the last four years...

Thanks. Awesome. Simply awesome. That told me 380% more about the headphone related gear at RMAF than the entire impression thread at HF.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: blue on October 15, 2014, 04:22:35 PM
I've made land at Canjam every year for the last four years.  I use my compass and astrolabe to freehand a map of the strange movements and shifting coastline of this mysterious island. I am haunted by the suspicion that this island itself may be no more than a mirage, as the conflict between viewing it flat-on (anechoic first-arrival response) and viewing it peripherally (room power response) create an un-resolvable interference when attempting to view it with binoculars (headphones with no processing).

(At risk of a stint in the brig.) How a swabbie sees some of the strange creatures on this island (apologies to Darwin):

Schiit Rag/Yggy:
I've heard the Mjolnir/Gungnir stack several times previously. Each time my eyes glazed over and I felt boredom as an immediate emotion. It did not let up after time. Pasteurized/Homogenized/Flat/Lifeless; beyond 'no-character of itself', it was aggressively drab (the embodiment of the glassy/muted sheen of clichéd solid state, with an extra helping of drab.) Now I state this because, for the first 30 seconds of listening to the Rag/Yggy stack I experienced a grave fear that I was in for a repeat. But unlike the Mo/Gun stack, with the Rag/Yggy it quickly became possible to listen-in to the inner life of the individual sounds. I *think* I began to see what the recent R2R DAC talk has been about: texture. Hammer struck strings, air and spit in brass, rosin: the full character of wet reeds, metal, polymer, varnished wood, and flesh: I felt like I was experiencing my tracks in the time-domain, a rare experience lately... and it reminded me of the experiences I had in the mid/late-90s when I was first getting excited about the possibilities of Hi-Fi. Ultimately, I did sense the presentation was a bit flat and slightly dry. This isn't an amp that ends the argument for tubes. My feelings distilled to: possibly great DAC and fully competent solid-state amplifier.

MrSpeakers Alpha Prime:
I think Dan may have taken the criticism of the early Alpha Dogs too much to heart: the Prime is a neutered lapdog on medication. Can't even call it dog. Sure you can kick it all the way up to the ceiling without it biting your ears off, but at normal levels this thing has no life; leaving it easy to focus on the slightly wooden bass and the t50rp ortho driver rasp.

Fostex T500RP:
All I could hear was the wooden bass of the driver, seemingly nutty 4k+ response, and the rasp... I can't un-hear the rasp.

oBRAVO AMT/1;
One could probably make a project of designing a crossover to make it respectable.  As awful as it was, MANY of the 2-channel setups upstairs at RMAF were worse.

Sony MDRZ7:
Distorted low bass, no sub-bass itself but lots of chuff. The rest of the bass is satisfyingly full without being big. Otherwise, it has a pleasant balance with enough presence and treble to keep it exciting. However, it ends up sounding a bit gritty and blatty. Except for the unsatisfying low-bass situation, this is what a normal person would think a $200 headphone should sound like.

What headphone was used with the Schiit stack?
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Marvey on October 15, 2014, 04:28:15 PM
Pendulumic Stance S1.
Some showstopping resonance issues. (A hoot with some pierce to it, it was odd.) Good popular full balance. Metallic electronic hash in the signal. Never call your product S, you are just asking for it.

Uh oh. I hope Mike Johnson, VP of Sales @ Pendulumic doesn't come by here and ask you for another listen, like what he did for asr.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Maxvla on October 15, 2014, 04:29:33 PM
They were pretty negative impressions. Made me wonder if anything pleases him at all. If he expects a $199 bluetooth headphone to get every single thing right, he's expecting too much. Balanced sound, comfort, good build quality, optional battery slots, and some resonance issues. Sounds pretty fantastic for the price, to me.

I also played some heavy electronic tracks with low/sub bass on the Z7s and they had plenty, and it wasn't distorted. And who cares what a 'normal' person thinks? A normal person thinks iBuds are perfectly fine.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: No_One411 on October 15, 2014, 04:37:36 PM
Pendulumic Stance S1.
Some showstopping resonance issues. (A hoot with some pierce to it, it was odd.) Good popular full balance. Metallic electronic hash in the signal. Never call your product S, you are just asking for it.

Uh oh. I hope Mike Johnson, VP of Sales @ Pendulumic doesn't come by here and ask you for another listen, like what he did for asr.

LOL, was thinking the same thing. I only heard their initial version, not the one with larger pads...Didn't think they sounded nearly bad enough to warrant "worst headphone ever" like ASR said. They're not amazing, but then you remind yourself that they are bluetooth headphones...
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: ultrabike on October 15, 2014, 04:43:16 PM
They were pretty negative impressions. Made me wonder if anything pleases him at all. If he expects a $199 bluetooth headphone to get every single thing right, he's expecting too much. Balanced sound, comfort, good build quality, optional battery slots, and some resonance issues. Sounds pretty fantastic for the price, to me.

I also played some heavy electronic tracks with low/sub bass on the Z7s and they had plenty, and it wasn't distorted. And who cares what a 'normal' person thinks? A normal person thinks iBuds are perfectly fine.

LOL! Hey! I consider myself "normal" and don't like iBuds...

Pendulumic Stance S1.
Some showstopping resonance issues. (A hoot with some pierce to it, it was odd.) Good popular full balance. Metallic electronic hash in the signal. Never call your product S, you are just asking for it.

Now I remember those! Heard them at the OC 2014 meet! Indeed, going by memory they had some resonance or distortion issue. Like the balance from a quick listen though.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: CEE TEE on October 15, 2014, 05:21:45 PM
^Watch out or we'll start a poll thread: "Is ultra bike normal?"   :)p17   I would like to see the sound of the first iBuds in the form factor of the present iBuds.  And I know that I am not "normal".


Nice impressions post, Thune.  It's true, now these impressions are much more important to read than any other coverage.  But rarer and rarer... 
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: bozebuttons on October 15, 2014, 05:40:04 PM
Thune
Oppo had 3 prototypes at the meet and they sounded differant then each other.
Sounds like you heard the one that was closed in sounding,muffled.
The other 2 where close in sound more open & treble extended,one had a touch more bass but not as wide a headstage.
I listened to one & loved it when someone mentioned They had differant sounding pairs I went back and compared them all.
The one I loved sounded like a open phone with a wide headstage with good treble extension.
 I would take that one over the pm1 &2   as I was interested in the PM2s,I never really took to the PM1s.
I hope oppo voices the production unit the same as the one I liked ,I gave my feedback to the reps. I will buy one when they are released ,if its not as good or better then the prototype I will just return it.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Deep Funk on October 15, 2014, 06:01:07 PM
They were pretty negative impressions. Made me wonder if anything pleases him at all. If he expects a $199 bluetooth headphone to get every single thing right, he's expecting too much. Balanced sound, comfort, good build quality, optional battery slots, and some resonance issues. Sounds pretty fantastic for the price, to me.

I also played some heavy electronic tracks with low/sub bass on the Z7s and they had plenty, and it wasn't distorted. And who cares what a 'normal' person thinks? A normal person thinks iBuds are perfectly fine.

LOL! Hey! I consider myself "normal" and don't like iBuds...

Some people simply will not even consider iBuds or whatever they are called. I am one of them as I think their design is as pretentious as it is unusable for my needs.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Quart Bernstein on October 16, 2014, 12:35:31 AM
Pendulumic Stance S1.
Some showstopping resonance issues. (A hoot with some pierce to it, it was odd.) Good popular full balance. Metallic electronic hash in the signal. Never call your product S, you are just asking for it.

Uh oh. I hope Mike Johnson, VP of Sales @ Pendulumic doesn't come by here and ask you for another listen, like what he did for asr.

HeadFi has entered the Victorian Era.

I'm surprised his post wasn't deleted by the good conduct patrol.

Poor chap, that Mike.
Doesn't know how crazy some of us are. About our wiring fetish embracing ritual before becoming an audiophile.

Edit: Misuse of quote's
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: zerodeefex on October 16, 2014, 03:21:37 AM
Asr's post was straight up grumpy dickwad status. It was ballsy to call them scam artists as well, even in jest.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Claritas on October 16, 2014, 03:43:29 AM
Asr's post was straight up grumpy dickwad status. It was ballsy to call them scam artists as well, even in jest.

Maybe. But many people went over the line in response, and it's pretty insecure for an MOT to respond to one anonymous negative review.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: zerodeefex on October 16, 2014, 03:48:14 AM
 I wasn't commenting on the replies. The "oh no, we must all agree" bullshit wasn't needed either.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Claritas on October 16, 2014, 04:01:00 AM
I wasn't commenting on the replies. The "oh no, we must all agree" bullshit wasn't needed either.

True.

I guess I have some sympathy for him because:

1. Some of my posts have come off as more negative than intended because I've made the mistake of taking the positives for granted.

2. It isn't easy to be the guy who says NO there.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: zerodeefex on October 16, 2014, 04:14:38 AM
Asr is also kind of, you know, batshit insane so his post was read with the "oh no, what is this crazy person saying" filter on :)
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: chetlanin on October 16, 2014, 04:15:54 AM
.........
Sony MDRZ7:
Distorted low bass, no sub-bass itself but lots of chuff. The rest of the bass is satisfyingly full without being big. Otherwise, it has a pleasant balance with enough presence and treble to keep it exciting. However, it ends up sounding a bit gritty and blatty. Except for the unsatisfying low-bass situation, this is what a normal person would think a $200 headphone should sound like.
......

One never knows, the unit may have been abused by a previous visitor. Enough of crazy people out there. Some guy may have wanted to give the cans an "instant burn-in"  say.

Talking about that, I wonder how many thousands of speakers and cans are "burnt out" by fanatical audiophiles each year. The seems to be no limits to audio-fanaticism: I recently read about a hifiman loaner unit, about which the first guy on the list said he had burnt it in for five days. A borrowed unit! Of course this could have been a moderate guy, but in normal life a wife will always come the third day and wipe dust off the volume knob, or smth.

In any case I liked your style. Will stay thuned. Olaf
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: TMRaven on October 16, 2014, 04:21:24 AM
I never really agree at all about Asr's impressions of headphones, but he doesn't seem like he's trying to be a blatant dick about anything.  He was nice enough to create a loaner program for his personal AD2000x for 4-5 people on head-fi that I was part of.


His impressions of the canjam gear seemed pretty sensible to me.  If he didn't like what he heard he didn't like what he heard.  If you don't post glowing impressions of reviews of brand new gear on head-fi though, you are eaten up by defensive comments afterwards.

Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Maxvla on October 16, 2014, 04:27:19 AM
History has shown me that ASR is indeed deaf. He's also always attending his last ever meet, every time.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: n3rdling on October 16, 2014, 06:44:17 AM
Golden rule of audio criticism: You're not allowed to say negative things while the product is still being sold.  Once it's out of production, upgraded to a new revision, or replaced by a new model then you can say what you wanted to say in the first place.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: thune on October 16, 2014, 06:50:55 AM
"Micro-rasp" on HE560's treble. That's the first time I've heard the description.
It pleases me that I could find a relatable description. My actual note for the best HE560 system: "a bit fttht-sy".

I'd love to hear if their new upper tier IEM is what the TE-05 originally sounded like.
Based on your glowing descriptions of the TE-05 last Canjam, I dropped by the Fostex booth with the idea of listening, but there wasn't a dish of tips, just one baggie with a set. Seemed like a 'bring your own tips' affair, and also I don't like deflecting my eardrums with plastic tip insertion...speaking of which ---hey Comply: sell sets of tips for all bores at a nominal cost ($5-$10) at the show, get people hooked--- So I didn't listen to the TE-05 or the single balanced-armature TE-07. Ultimately, I had plenty of other things to listen to; and I haven't yet delved into IEMs at Canjam, maybe next year.

What headphone was used with the Schiit stack?
This question feels like a trap. But it was the LCD-X, with all its own flaws.
[I'm sensitive to and have some bad associations with the HD800
(click to show/hide)
so to be fair, I didn't audition with that.]

I also played some heavy electronic tracks with low/sub bass on the Z7s and they had plenty, and it wasn't distorted.
One never knows, the unit may have been abused by a previous visitor. Enough of crazy people out there. Some guy may have wanted to give the cans an "instant burn-in"  say.
I could be wrong: but I really think the Z7 has a roll-off on the low-end that runs counter to a severe rise in distortion. It gives the impression of that region being there, but the character of the driver comes-in and takes over the lower you go. I'll stand by this.

Thune
Oppo had 3 prototypes at the meet and they sounded differant then each other ...
I hope oppo voices the production unit the same as the one I liked.
The response of the PM-3 I heard was smooth enough and the distortion was low enough that I'm not writing it off. Seems fixable, and your comments support that.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Anaxilus on October 16, 2014, 07:31:14 AM
I'd love to hear if their new upper tier IEM is what the TE-05 originally sounded like.
Based on your glowing descriptions of the TE-05 last Canjam, I dropped by the Fostex booth with the idea of listening, but there wasn't a dish of tips, just one baggie with a set. Seemed like a 'bring your own tips' affair, and also I don't like deflecting my eardrums with plastic tip insertion...speaking of which ---hey Comply: sell sets of tips for all bores at a nominal cost ($5-$10) at the show, get people hooked--- So I didn't listen to the TE-05 or the single balanced-armature TE-07. Ultimately, I had plenty of other things to listen to; and I haven't yet delved into IEMs at Canjam, maybe next year.


So the TE-07 is a BA huh.  Since the original amazeballs TE-05 was dynamic and they changed the sig to appease the bass/low-fi crowd, I have serious doubts about the 07 but who knows...
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Maxvla on October 17, 2014, 05:00:08 AM
Finally managed to transcribe my notes to the computer and add commentary here and there. Had a great time hanging out with Nick Dangerous all weekend and meeting Warren finally and so many others. Anaxilus recommended we try the Cherry Cricket burger joint about 15 mins from the hotel and it was FANTASTIC. Best burger I've ever had, and great onion rings. Nick wanted to go again Saturday, but it didn't work out. We also went to 1Up which had a lot of great pinball machines as well as video games and way-too-loud music. By the end of the weekend I was totally exhausted. I'm surprised I didn't fall asleep on the plane home.

Here we go:

Cantata – Liquid Crimson – HD800 > Clean, soundstage is nice. Vocals are very slightly sharp, pushed back a bit. Bass is full but needs more impact. Midbass blurring male vocals somewhat.

New amp from Cavalli is an evolution of the Liquid Fire. It sounded the part, too. A more polished sound than before, though has similar traits that I didn't care for from the Fire including the lack of bass impact. The smaller chassis and lower price is certainly welcome.

Cantata – Liquid Glass (stock tubes) – HD800 > Treble too sharp. More detailed though. Stage pushed more L/R and more separation. Need to hear with ideal tubes.

Heard a Glass (also stock tubes) before in Austin 2013 and thought it sounded alright, but still didn't like the treble. One of these days I'll get Alex to set me up with proper tubes in a demo.

Cantata – Liquid Gold – HD800 > Firmer bass. Treble in between Crimson + Glass. Sounds more effortless, but has grain in the vocals. Certainly the best of the three, but not perfect.

I'd heard the Gold before at Austin 2014, but I wasn't able to directly compare rigs like this. I wasn't sure where it stood against the rest of Cavalli's line. Nice amp, but I can't afford it.

Cantata – Liquid Lightning (tube) – SR009 > A very good SR-009 setup. I recognize the amazing things SR-009s are capable of, but there are showstopping flaws that keep me from enjoying them. This rig sounded about as good as any I've heard with SR-009s.

iPhone/iPod Touch – ifi DSD – Abyss > Fit still uncomfortable, rep says supposed to have broken seal. Odd. Highs grainy, vocals sound like from a tube. I can really feel the physical weight. Dynamics are decent for a transportable setup. Cymbals sound like glass breaking.

Portable setup for Abyss sounded as bad as the idea of using a huge $5000 headphone on the go does.

Mytek Stereo 192 – Eddie Current 4-45 – Abyss > Aggressive tracks make them seem slow. Treble can't keep up. Vocals too smooth, not enough texture. Tunnel effect again, but not as bad.

Notes don't mention it, but this was a much better rig than the 'portable' setup before. Still, the Mytek would not be my choice for DACs. Won't put too much faith in this audition.

ifi stack – Alclair Dual > Highs very smeared. Voices and cymbals sound almost indistinguishable. Too much SSHH. I'd hate to hear the 4 subwoofer version. These are pretty bad. Sounds like constant SSHH.

ifi stack – Alclair Quad > Treble very much reduced. Too much bass. Mids seem to be alright, but with everything else out of balance it doesn't matter. Impact is good, but overdone bass spoils it. This is certainly cleaner than the dual. Guitars are thick. Lacks detail, vocals flat. No texture.

ifi stack – Alclair Dual (“brighter” version) > Weird sound. Midbass going crazy, mids blooming. Upper mids seem to valley then a treble spike. Air is alright and treble seem sto give decent texture but the rest is so disjointed. Big bass impact on these as well. Too much bass.

So the Alclairs were brand new to me. I knew nothing about them. I tried the 3 most likely to please me, asking the reps for neutral or treble tilted monitors. None of these were neutral or even treble tilted. I managed to get away without talking about the sound, and I'm glad because I wouldn't know where to start with constructive criticism.

Fostex HPA8C – Fostex TH500RP > Comfortable but ear openings are small. These will get hot. Midrange headphone. Bass is a bit soft, lacks impact. Treble is smooth yet has good detail. Doesn't do anything wrong. Nicely balanced. Physical weight is ok, but would be tiring on long sessions. Needs more bite in the treble.

The new toy from Fostex was pleasant, but ultimately forgettable. Perhaps it will spawn a new wave of mods. I think $700 for this headphone (I think that was the price) is too much.

Bryston stack @ Moon Audio table – HD800 > Bright, but clean. Very open, nice sound. Bass just a little soft. Impact ok. Vocals have some sizzle. Reminds of my old X-Sabre/BHA-1/HD800 rig.

Not perfect, but really good. Having had a very similar rig before, this was like slipping on a pair of old shoes. They still fit, but you remember why you moved on to a new pair.

BMC PureDAC (?) - Kingsound stats on tube amp > Weight is good. Comfort good except tips of ears touch inside. Treble is tapered, but present. Ultra smooth. Great mids. Throws surprising stage. Center is ok-ish, still have some side issues. Pretty good overall. Relaxing phones, not technically great though. Bass is soft and lacks impact, but those mids are so rich.

I'd wanted to hear these for a long time and while they didn't blow me away, I was impressed by this third (or fourth?) try at phones from Kingsound. The headphones were artfully crafted and light. If ever there was a perfect mids headphone, it is this one.

Sennheiser HDVD800 – HD800 > Highs piercing. Not a lot of texture. Vocals in particular. Bass is nice. Mids slightly recessed. Stage is smallish for HD800s. Not bad though. DAC/Amp is small form factor and looks great.

This is more or less what I expected from this pairing. Could find better DAC/Amp combos for the price, but for the form factor and looks I can't fault anyone for staying on the company line, if that's their thing.

Auralic Vega – Cavalli Liquid Glass – Alpha Prime Dogs, or is it Dogs Prime? > Most open Mr. Speakers headphone yet. Still a bit thick, but good texture in mids/bass. Vocals are nice, just a hint of grain. Top to bottom is very well integrated, seamless. Slight midbass hump in good taste.

Another good phone from Dan. I'm not one who usually likes closed headphones, and these still sound closed despite being the most open yet. Not on my purchase radar because of this. Later at the show I heard the Sony Z7, which is semi-closed that doesn't sound closed at all and is being considered for purchase. I asked Dan for a little more treble (as I have before) and he said the Prime was tunable. Eh... still won't be quite right I don't think.

Pendulumic Bluetooth Headphones > Quite nice. Not the most detailed, but clean and balanced. Nice stage size for closed. Somewhat thick in treble, but not bad at all. Vocals can be sharp. Midbass elevated, but doesn't bleed or cover. Upper mids recessed. Does a good job on front arc imaging, even without angled drivers. Bass rolls off some and impact could be cleaner.

Fantastic headphones given the price ($199) and flexibility (bluetooth up to 30hrs or wired) and reasonable comfort. Is it a world beater? No, but it doesn't have to be. This thing eats Beats for breakfast. Make a model with a microphone and take over the gaming scene!

Acer Win 8 tablet (JRiver) – CTM WLS-5 > Treble missing some. Reminds of UERM but more bass. Clean. Stage not as convincing as UERM. Missing some definition in vocals. Guitars aren't crisp. Nice sound overall.

Acer tablet – CTM CT400Pro > Treble fuzzy and dampened. Weird etch to it. Alright if you after a very warm sound and low volume levels.

Acer tablet – CTM CT500 > Better balance than CT400. Treble feels distant, strange. WLS-5 is better.

I'd never heard of CTM. Listened to their top 3 models and wasn't impressed, but they didn't sound all that bad. I could see them matching someone's needs.

Acer tablet – oBravo AMT base model > Lots of bass. Lots of bass. Lots of bass. Treble and midrange is there, buried somewhere. EQ'd bass and midbass down about 10-12dB in JRiver and it resembles a balanced presentation. Once balanced correctly, it's not bad really. Effortless delivery and the bass is clean and impactful. Soundstage is small-ish. Feels hot and heavy on my ears after just a few minutes.

Acer tablet – oBravo AMT top model > No EQ necessary on this model, but sounds are completely unrealistic. Very strange. This sounds awful. The base model sounds worlds better, especially once EQ'd. I don't even know where to begin with this.

The oBravo phones were interesting. I much preferred the $1000 model to the $2000 model, though I wouldn't pay over $300 for the base model without a proper tuning, and that's only if I'm in a particularly bass happy mood. Long term comfort doesn't look good with the heat showing up in just a few minutes of demo. Back to the drawing board, IMO.

Acer tablet - B & O H6 > Decent sound. Little grainy up top. Mids good, bass needs more extension and impact, doesn't overpower. Vocals somehow alright despite grain. Isolation is better than expected. Center not well defined. Bass texture is good. Soundstage small to medium. Things flow together well, not disjointed. Some ringing in upper mids.

Not my choice for $399, but they aren't awful. I'd go Pendulumic for half the price and more flexibility.

Acer tablet – B & O H3 > Smeary highs. Don't like these at all. Crunchy. Hard to get a good fit. Bass overwhelms.

Geek Out 450 – Focal Sprit One Pro S > Bass a little strong. Nice for what it is. First time hearing both items. Midbass bloom overpowers. Impact isn't precise, but there is a lot of it. Sloppy.

Comply foam tips > Decent isolation, could still hear talking readily with no music playing. Very comfortable. Fit is secure, doesn't budge when moving my head or gently tugging on wires. I don't do universals much these days, but these are definitely the best tips I've used.

Acer tablet – JH13 FP > More balanced than my memory of the original JH13. Upper mids slightly diminished. Really nice sound. Treble is more extended and smooth than before. Female vocal is warm and intimate. Bass is lowered to proper levels compared to JH13. Violin somewhat shrill, lacks realistic tone. Group vocals sound ethereal.

Acer tablet – JH Roxanne > Treble shelved greatly, but it sounds like there's a spike somewhere up there. Getting a metallic sheen. Bass adjustment is very gradual giving good control over the boost. After a few tracks I'm getting used to the Roxannes. Treble is still a problem. Bass sounds best between 25% and 50% boost depending on the track.

Last time I visited RMAF in 2011 I heard the JH13 and JH16 and wondered how anyone could want that much bass. I'm glad to hear the new models are more balanced. The JH13 FP is very nice. I didn't care for the Roxanne. The Roxanne with bass at full tilt still has nothing on the old JH16 for bass quantity.

Acer tablet – Mofi Blue Headphones >  Amp mode: Bass is nice, but lacks control. Sustain is good. Mids are strong and treble is smoothed. Guitars are thick. Lacking detail all around. Bass boost doesn't do much. Impact is still soft, just more volume on sustain. Passive Mode: Life sucked out of the music. Treble is a mess. Recommend only use amp mode.

Acer tablet – Beyer T5P > Still like this headphone. Vocals aren't perfect, but acceptable. Guitars are crisp. Soundstage is medium to large as I remember from RMAF 2011. Bass a little soft, but impact is decent. Treble is nice, clear and extended. Just the right balance with mids.

Unknown source – Koss ESP90 with energizer > Mids are nice. Treble has a little shh to it. Detail could be better. Guitars are fantastic. Bass is too weak. Almost no impact at all. Snare drums need more bite. Sounds distant.

I'd never heard these stats, though I've read about them for a long time. I was glad to see Koss attending. I was really impressed with the featherweight headphones. They nearly disappeared on my head. Unfortunately I didn't like the sound all that much, too bad.

Acer tablet – Sony MDR-Z7 > similar to MA900s. Very good center and off-center. Bass is strong and impactful but not overbearing. Treble is somewhat rolled tastefully like MA900s. Smoother but more detailed. Female vocals are excellent. Stage is medium in size. Midbass can occasionally boom a little much. Texture across the spectrum is very nice. No harshness anywhere.

I'm glad I hadn't gone to the Sony booth until after Friday, as these weren't around til Saturday. I really like these, but don't really need another headphone, especially not a somewhat expensive one. I get a somewhat similar sound from the MA900s and I think that might be good enough for my collection. HD800s still rule the roost for high end. This was one of only two headphones I considered purchasing while auditioning.

Sony Z1ES music server - Vinnie Rossi LIO multi function sound system – Hifiman HE560 > Really smooth. Highs are clear. Best I've heard the 560s. Bass is rich, vocals have depth to them. Texture is great all around. Impact is good and sound overall is crisp.

While this was a great sounding rig, I still have problems with planar phones' soundstage. There were no other phones at the booth to try, but this system would probably sound great with anything.

Ayre QB9 DSD – Headamp Blue Hawaii SE – Stax SR-009 > Effortless delivery. Vocals just a hint of harshness. Tough call between this Ayre/BHSE and the Cantata/LL.

Sony walkman – Concert Fidelity XHP-4 – AKG K612 > Bright, grainy. Bass soft. Probably fault of headphone (I've never heard before).

Sony walkman – Concert Fidelity XHP-4 – Audeze LCD-3 > Treble as I remember from LCD-3. Sounds a little underpowered. Bass is weak. Sony walkman has a good output?

Another new company eager to get input on physical design. As I'd never heard the walkman or the K612 before I couldn't be confident with sonic impressions, but I didn't like either rig very much.

Unknown TT – ALO Phono Stage – ALO StudioSix – HD800 > Nice texture in vocals. Rich sound overall. Detailed but not harsh. Bass impact is just about perfect. Guitars sound a little small, may be recording. Very clean for vinyl. Impressive.

I'd heard the prototype of the StudioSix at RMAF2011 when it was cased in a cage equipped steel chassis with LCD-2s and recall it being extremely relaxing. This time with the HD800s it wasn't nearly as relaxing, but it felt better controlled and lent itself well to the HD800s.

Acer tablet – RHA T10i > Crazy bass volume but clean. EQ'd down 7-10dB in bass and midbass.  Pretty nice once EQ'd. Treble soft but detailed. Open soundstage. Excellent texture in mids.

Acer tabet – Oppo PM-3 > Impact seems cleaner than PM-1 I demo'd. Comfort is better despite smaller ear openings. Lighter, less clamp. Highs are well extended, smooth and clear all the way up. Vocals are great. Center is wider than most. Odd. Center depth is too distant as well. Can get congested when really pushed.

Geek LPS – Geek Pulse (top model) – Alpha Dogs > Good bite, crisp. Good control and clean. Alpha Dogs are good but limited.

Geek LPS – Geek Pulse (top model) – Ultimate Ears Reference Monitor > Clear, large soundstage. Drives well. DAC seems clean. Light hiss on low gain at listening volume. Shouldn't distract from music.

I'd mostly stayed away from LH's Geek stuff due to the myriad of options and constant revisions. After hearing the Geek Out 450 and LPS/Pulse, I'd say they are decent, but not for me. The Pulse was a prototype and was really touchy with the controls. Sometimes a single 'notch' would adjust .5dB, sometimes it was 10dB. Scary when you have sensitive IEMs in your ears. LH has too many irons in the fire, IMO.

Acer tablet – Ultimate Ears 18 > Same crunch up top as UERM. More bass. Nice sound overall. Voice have a little too much mids.

Acer tablet – Ultimate Ears 11 > Bass is a lot, but it's clean. Good for lower level listening. Still like the UERM more.

Acer tablet – Westone ES60 > Treble extends further and is cleaner than UERM. More bass too, but tasteful. Soundstage just as good. Really nice.

I last heard a Westone product at RMAF 2011, the ES5, and I really didn't like it. It was harsh and disjointed. The ES60 is completely better and I think a little better than my UERM. I considered buying a pair, but ended up not wanting to spend $1k+ on another custom when the sonic difference wasn't that much. If I was choosing from scratch, though, ES60s no doubt.

Acer tablet – Schiit Yggdrasil – Schiit Ragnarok – HD800 > Wow. This detail and smooth delivery is impressive. Sounds like stats, but with real soundstage. Impact is excellent, like a truck slamming into a building. Never heard vocals like this from headphones, so real. Balance is perfect. Highs bite, but aren't harsh.

This was my main attraction and it didn't disappoint. I don't know which unit was responsible for the quality of sound I was hearing (or maybe both), but this rig was amazing. I'll be first in line to get a Yggdrasil. My Ragnarok arrives tomorrow and I'll be comparing it to my GS-X2 and Black Diamond. On a purely superficial note, I hope the Ragnarok does well so I can FINALLY own a complete Schiit stack. I have a feeling a great deal of the magic I found with this rig was courtesy of Mr. Moffat. I've never heard anything but Delta Sigma DACs, so I was expecting a different sound, but this rig had a directness to it I wasn't prepared for.

Acer tablet – Schiit Yggdrasil – Schiit Ragnarok – Balanced UERM > With no music playing, full volume on low gain, no hiss, no noise, no anything. Crazy this thing runs speakers too. Didn't mask UERMs flaws. Easily drives these.

Jason claimed IEMs to speakers, so I had to put him to the test. I brought my 4 pin XLR balanced cable for my UERMs just to do this test and it passed with flying colors. It doesn't get much more demanding than a balanced very low ohm, high sensitivity IEM when testing for noise.

Speakers -

I ended up listening to almost every speaker room, albeit briefly. I returned to a couple rooms, but most were 2-3 minutes then on to the next. I'm amazed at the ground I was able to cover this RMAF. When I finally finished the headphone room about an hour before the end of the show on Sunday I was totally aurally exhausted. I just sat at the Head-fi booth chatting with Warren and others for the remaining time.

I didn't take notes on the speaker rooms really and most were awful so I'd rather not go room by room like above. Here are some highlights:

Salk Songtower RT > Really nice, open sound. Loved their implementation of ribbons. Needs subwoofer reinforcement (at least in that room), but I went back to listen to them 3 times. I'll keep them on the radar. Within budget at $2700 a pair.

Raidho D1 > Holy schiit. These were incredible. Tiny bookshelves putting out bass that I swear was from a hidden subwoofer. It didn't stop there, though. Highs were effortless and well blended with mids. Best speaker I heard at the show, though well out of my price range. Pedestrian priced compared to the 1/4 mil Focal Grand Utopias upstairs though.

Linkwitz LX521 > Loved the sound from these. Highs were a little soft, but the sense of space was great. It really separated the music from the speakers. Room could have been better as the bass was somewhat boomy. Bass felt like HD800 bass, it came from nowhere, impossible to localize. DIY kit for $3k is probably worth it considering all the other trash I heard for the same or much higher cost. More than I'd like to spend on something I still have to put work into.

Linkwitz LXmini > Also loved the sound from these. Not quite as seamless as the LX521, the $400 price tag more than makes up for it. These are also smaller and more easily placed in a room. I didn't detect any room resonance issues with these. Bass was firm and similarly impossible to localize. Highs were good enough, with great mids. I need to see the details on these as I might build a set. Apparently the DSP and amping requirements are a little unusual.

Emerald Physics EP 4.3 > Not a speaker I would buy myself, but as a large driver open baffle, the bass was mindblowing. It had the same localizing as the Linkwitz stuff, but much more punch and it felt like the room came alive with it. A really interesting experience. The highs were really etched and rough and mids sucked out.

KEF LS50 > Spent a lot of time in here. Only speakers I bothered using my own music on. These were impressive for finished speakers at $1500 a pair. The sense of space was amazingly nearly as good as the open baffles I was hearing. My only issue is that (at least in that room) there seemed to be a slight honk to the signature. Somewhere in the mids, I guess. They weren't as effortless as I'd prefer, either, they still sounded like speakers.

EngimaAcoustics SuperTweeter speakers > The bass and mids were alright, but the highs were the show. Detailed and ultra smooth. Felt like they extended forever. Just as good as the plasma tweeters I heard from other speakers in other rooms.

Zu Audio Druid > A speaker company I'd been looking forward to hearing. These were flat and boring. Basically no depth even in a huge room. Disappointing. The little Peachtree Deep Blue 2 sounded better in some ways in the same huge room.

Peachtree Deep Blue 2 > I'm a first backer ($250) and was curious to hear how it was coming along. Played via bluetooth in a very oversized room, yet the sound was filling, surprisingly even the bass kept up. There's not really a sweetspot with this unit (at least in that huge room), so I walked around while it was playing, as if at a party, and I was able to make out vocals easily from anywhere in the room and the signature didn't change much as I walked around. Really nice for a small-ish boombox, essentially.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Anaxilus on October 17, 2014, 05:29:33 AM
Nice impressions.  Good to hear about the ES60.  I don't know how it was remotely possible to get an ES5 to sound harsh I have to say.  There is absolutely nothing harsh in it's signature anywhere.

I think you'll be surprised to hear how much Jason Stoddard deserves for what you heard as well.  You can't hear what Mike can do if Jason screws it up on his end.

No Teton listening?

Mytek on a 445 is about one of the worst things I can think of.  Who's table was that?
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Maxvla on October 17, 2014, 05:39:54 AM
The ES5 was run from an RSA Apache balanced sourced by a CD player I forget.

Regarding the amp/dac speak. I mostly did that to keep amp comments to a minimum ahead of my review (mostly for the benefit of HF, used same post there). There's no doubt the amp does its fair share, and I told Jason this in person.

I made eye contact with Todd a few times, he broke it instantly. I ignored his table. Remember Pinnacle?

Mytek was at the Abyss table right next to the Cantata/Liquid Gold/Abyss setup which was so much better.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: thune on October 17, 2014, 05:55:35 AM
Maxvla,
Nice impressions. I'm even more upset now that I didn't find a slot to listen to the Linkwitz LXmini. I felt the LX521 sounded much better last year with the Pass electronics (as opposed to this year's Emotiva): more control and less hash.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Maxvla on October 17, 2014, 06:03:17 AM
Don't put much stock in my speaker impressions. This was the first time I've listened to so many different types of speakers. My expectations for speakers are also not very stringent. I'm not interested in setting up absorbers and traps and crap in my living room. Speakers, for me, are mostly for convenience, or when I just want a break from headphones, not for high level listening.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: OJneg on October 17, 2014, 06:13:29 AM
Dipole bass really is something else isn't it? You bring up a point about the localization, you just don't get that with a lot of ported/sealed cabinets.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: DaveBSC on October 17, 2014, 06:35:23 AM
Don't put much stock in my speaker impressions. This was the first time I've listened to so many different types of speakers. My expectations for speakers are also not very stringent. I'm not interested in setting up absorbers and traps and crap in my living room. Speakers, for me, are mostly for convenience, or when I just want a break from headphones, not for high level listening.

Great impressions, thanks for all of that work. Curious, did you run across Fritz? Salks are decent, but IMO Philharmonic does it better for less. A lot of the money for a Salk goes into cabinet finishes, which are admittedly very nice, but you're paying for it for sure.

Emerald Physics haven't measured up to the prodigious amount of hype out there, at least IME. Audio Kinesis horns may not have that OB bass, but they are much more pleasant to listen to than any EP I've heard, and do a pretty good job of limiting wall interactions that would require a lot of treatment.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Maxvla on October 17, 2014, 06:51:03 AM
Don't recall seeing that name, but perhaps I did and didn't notice. First time touring the whole of speakerland so there were a lot of unfamiliar names.

Even if the cabinet finish is where a lot of money is going, the sound of the Songtower RT was worth the price. I liked them better than the Soundscape 8 he had on the other side of the suite.

Yes, the Emerald Physics were pretty terrible overall, but that dipole bass experience was noteworthy.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Eric_C on October 17, 2014, 07:29:55 AM
Very informative. Totally appreciate posts like this, super helpful for people who can't attend meets (like me).
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Thujone on October 17, 2014, 12:21:06 PM
Great impressions all around.

Looks like I'm going to have to save for the Yggy/Rag.  :-[
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: thegunner100 on October 17, 2014, 02:45:40 PM
Thanks for the impressions!

Wish I could go to RMAF one of these days :(. A ragnarok/yggdrasil setup would be pretty end-game for me.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: MisterRogers on October 17, 2014, 05:48:27 PM
A few more thoughts on Rag/Yaggy.

As mentioned, I sat down in front of the stack right out the gate. Jason and the Schiit crew were still setting up their booth, sorting out streaming issues, etc. I started in listening. After about 5min, Jason walked up with a bit of a smirk. He said something like 'well?'.

I sat there with a big grin, struggling to find the words to frame what I was hearing. It was tough, because it was a new experience for me. After a few seconds too long, I mumbled something about attack, decay, clean edges, delineation, yada yada. Some of you that know me understand that I'm obsessed with DAC's. I came to the conclusion years ago that nothing 'downstream' matters nearly as much as the DAC, So I embarked on 'book learnin', forum reading and experimentation in fine, nauseating detail. I've swapped dozens of PS's in/out of my 'bench' DAC's. I've played with every shunt I can get my hands on, pre-regs, LDO's, different LDO chips, battery, the subtle tonality changes that can come with different caps in the PS. Wiring - from U.FL to soft annealed silver with cotton dielectric in the output stage... well you get the idea.

What I was hearing was new to me. Whole notes. No digital hash, no plasticky sheen, no decay that's not quite right. In the wholeness of the notes, I could hear into them - between them. Space, air - and as a fellow pirate mentioned, texture. In the end, Yaggy will not be perfect - I love tech audio because the brightest of us always figure out how to improve things. Regardless - Yaggy V1 represents a significant step in digital to analog conversion.

Sitting here listening to Rag fed by my uber bench DAC - driving HE-560's; I know my UberDAC's days are numbered.

Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: Marvey on October 17, 2014, 06:05:20 PM
It's funny because the results of all the tweaking in the world with VCXOs, boutique caps, regulators, etc. are insignificant compared to the fundamentals of solid design. I doubt we will see a single "boutique" part on the Yggy, but instead just a bunch of surface mount components.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: schiit on October 17, 2014, 06:18:25 PM
It's funny because the results of all the tweaking in the world with VCXOs, boutique caps, regulators, etc. are insignificant compared to the fundamentals of solid design. I doubt we will see a single "boutique" part on the Yggy, but instead just a bunch of surface mount components.

Yep, though there are definitely "grades" in surface mount. Thin-film surface mount resistors look just like thick, SMD film caps are pretty ugly and unassuming (but have very good dielectrics), active parts are marked with unfamiliar numbers (which usually outperform the older "golden era" parts) or aren't marked at all. It can be disorienting for someone used to through-hole stuff. But I generally prefer surface mount these days.

But yeah, mainly surface mount. Though there is a pretty tweak choke-input, shunt-regulated power supply for the analog side of things. And a ridiculously powerful DSP core. Beyond that, Mike's sworn me to secrecy until release.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: DaveBSC on October 17, 2014, 11:25:46 PM
It's funny because the results of all the tweaking in the world with VCXOs, boutique caps, regulators, etc. are insignificant compared to the fundamentals of solid design. I doubt we will see a single "boutique" part on the Yggy, but instead just a bunch of surface mount components.

Speaking of, I am sort of curious about this guy, which is about as opposite of a direction from the Yggy as you can go. It's also 3X the price, and unfortunately is packing PCM1792s. They had one in the Daedalus room at RMAF this year and I think maybe one or two others.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5600/15328472498_89e044483c_b.jpg)
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: CEE TEE on October 18, 2014, 07:58:22 AM
A few more thoughts on Rag/Yaggy.

As mentioned, I sat down in front of the stack right out the gate. Jason and the Schiit crew were still setting up their booth, sorting out streaming issues, etc. I started in listening. After about 5min, Jason walked up with a bit of a smirk. He said something like 'well?'.

I sat there with a big grin, struggling to find the words to frame what I was hearing. It was tough, because it was a new experience for me. After a few seconds too long, I mumbled something about attack, decay, clean edges, delineation, yada yada. Some of you that know me understand that I'm obsessed with DAC's. I came to the conclusion years ago that nothing 'downstream' matters nearly as much as the DAC, So I embarked on 'book learnin', forum reading and experimentation in fine, nauseating detail. I've swapped dozens of PS's in/out of my 'bench' DAC's. I've played with every shunt I can get my hands on, pre-regs, LDO's, different LDO chips, battery, the subtle tonality changes that can come with different caps in the PS. Wiring - from U.FL to soft annealed silver with cotton dielectric in the output stage... well you get the idea.

What I was hearing was new to me. Whole notes. No digital hash, no plasticky sheen, no decay that's not quite right. In the wholeness of the notes, I could hear into them - between them. Space, air - and as a fellow pirate mentioned, texture. In the end, Yaggy will not be perfect - I love tech audio because the brightest of us always figure out how to improve things. Regardless - Yaggy V1 represents a significant step in digital to analog conversion.

Sitting here listening to Rag fed by my uber bench DAC - driving HE-560's; I know my UberDAC's days are numbered.

This, from the obessed of the obsessed?  MUST HEAR THIS.
Title: Re: CanJam at RMAF Impressions
Post by: kothganesh on October 18, 2014, 08:19:55 AM
Ok $ 2300+1700 = $4,000. Got the math, will scrounge for the cash, need the products. Another $ 1,200 for customs duty. Jason, ever think about allowing payment in installments?  :-00